Atlanta Hawks: Why J.J. may be worth more to the Hawks than you think
If J.J. walks, the Hawks won't be able to replace him with a comparable free agent. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
Hawks GM Rick Sund said the team will do whatever it takes to re-sign Joe Johnson but he’s not writing the checks. One guy who is, ASG’s Michael Gearon Jr., said the Hawks would “react” once Johnson hits the free-agent market on July 1.
Gearon didn’t want to talk about J.J. this week but on the day after the Hawks’ season ended he offered some insight into his view on max contracts:
“The biggest problem most teams make is they sign a contract and it ends up being a bad contract. You look at the Miami Heat, Jermaine O’Neal makes $23 million a year. Is he a player that is worth $23 million a year? I would say probably not. If you look at our team, we’ve assembled a team where we try to stay away from bad contracts.
“That said, there isn’t a move we haven’t made. We thought it made sense to get Jamal Crawford here and increase the payroll, so we did that. With the salary cap, the only way go above that is trade players you have or you re-sign players you have where the payroll goes up. Since we bought the team the payroll has increased [by] $24 million What we haven’t done is make a mistake with a bad contract. Well, I shouldn’t say that, Speedy’s contract wasn’t very good, but we turned it into something [in the Crawford trade].”
The obvious counter to Gearon’s argument is getting players like O’Neal often requires signing (or trading for) deals that carry some risk on the back end. But clearly that’s not ASG’s philosophy and, as I’ve said before, it’s hard to blame them since there are only a few max-salary players who would excite fans to the point of offering a reasonable chance of a return on investment in this market. Gearon again:
“If somebody came to us tomorrow and said you can have LeBron for max money and it puts you in the luxury tax, I’d do it in a a heartbeat. But am I going to do that for Ilgauskas? Am I going to do it for Jermaine O’Neal? I don’t think so. . . .
“We have piled tens of millions of dollars into this product to make it good. But it’s also up to fans to show up and see your team and support your team. I think we’ve given them a product as exciting as any in the league. You want people to be there, you want them to support your team and be proud of it. I think we have a team that deserves that.”
No one knows for sure what J.J. can get on the market and/or at what point Sund’s “whatever it takes” is trumped by ASG’s fiscal restraint. But chances are if the Hawks are going to sign a major free agent this summer, it’s going to be J.J. Otherwise, due to salary-cap rules they don’t have many options for signing a comparable replacement.
You can either trust me on that, slog through the following detailed explanation (which could possibly make your head hurt and your eyeballs bleed) or skip down the paragraph that starts with “All of those moves technically would leave the Hawks with $8.1 million in cap room”. . . .
I’ve checked all of the following against info posted by cap expert Larry Coon. I also exchanged e-mails with Coon, who after years of providing friendly help for helpless hacks like me now is writing a blog at the New York Times Web site, among other places. I also corresponded with blog reader Robert Dinterman, who says he’s just a fan with a lot of CBA knowledge. I can tell you this is true, so Ps and thanks to Robert.
I’ve included the appropriate links if you are interested in how I came up with the numbers or are some kind of masochist (I don’t judge). I’m pretty confident it’s all accurate but I don’t claim to be a cap expert or any better than competent at simple arithmetic. If you think there are any errors in math or cap interpretation, please send me an email–mcunningham at ajc.com–and I will check it out and update where necessary.
As it stands, the Hawks have roughly $47.6 million committed to eight players next season when including Mo Evans’ $2.5 million. Let’s say Evans opts out and then J.J. and Josh Childress and all their other free agents signs elsewhere and/or the Hawks renounce all their free agents.
If all of that happens, then the following would come off the Hawks’ books for their total offseason salary of approximately $78.9 million, which includes committed salaries and cap holds for their free agents and the No. 24 draft pick (assuming they keep it):
Joe Johnson’s $15.8 million cap hold
As a Bird Free Agent, Johnson’s offseason salary figure is based on 150 % of previous salary, which is about $22.5 million, but the figure can’t exceed the maximum salary for a nine-year player, which hasn’t been determined yet but that Coon estimates will be about $15.8 million.
Josh Childress’ $10.9 million cap hold
Childress is a Bird Free Agent coming off the fourth year of his rookie-scale contract. According to the 2004-05 rookie scale, Childress’ fourth-year salary as the No. 6 pick was 26.8 percent more than his third-year salary of $2.86 million, or $3.6 million. (The higher salary is because Childress made about 120 percent more than the scale, which is allowable.) The $3.6 million is less than the league-defined average salary of $4.9 million in 2004-05. Therefore, Childress’ cap hold is 300 percent more than $3.6 million, or roughly $10.9 million.
Mo Evans’ $2.5 million salary
If Mo opts out, his salary is wiped out.
Mario West’s $1.06 million cap hold
As a three-year veteran who has been previously waived, West is a non-bird, restricted free agent. As such, his team salary is calculated as the greater of 120 percent of his previous salary ($572,344) or his qualifying offer. For West, the qualifying offer is the greater of 125 percent of his previous salary ($596,191) or the three-year vet minimum ($885,120) plus $175,000, which is $1.06 million.
Joe Smith’s $854,389 cap hold
Smith is a 12-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $1.352 million, but since he’s played more than seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of team salary.
Jason Collins’ $854,389 cap hold
Collins is a nine-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $1.229 million, but since he’s played more than three seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of team salary.
Randolph Morris $854,389 cap hold
Morris is a four-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $992,680, but since he’s played more than three seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of the team salary.
Subtracting Evans’ option plus the free-agent holds would leave the Hawks’ salaries at about $46.1 million (committed salaries for seven players at $45.1 million plus the rookie scale amount of $964,000 for the 24th pick).
But other salary charges apply since the Hawks then would be under the salary cap (estimated by the league will be $56.1 million in 2010-11) and have only eight players when counting the players under contract plus the first-round pick. The roster charge for the four empty spots below 12 are based on the 2010-11 rookie minimum salary of $473,604, for a total of $1.89 million. That would increase the Hawks’ salary total to about $48 million ($46.1 million plus $1.9 million).
All of those moves technically would leave the Hawks with roughly $8.1 million in cap room, but they would be subject to holds for the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions. Those holds apply if adding them would put the Hawks over the cap. It’s hard to say if that will happen now because while the amount for the 2010-11 bi-annual exception is known ($2.08 million) the mid-level amount hasn’t yet been set (Coon is estimating it will be $5.73 million this season). Also, all these salary numbers are estimates while the league calculates them down to dollars and cents. No, really.
If the Hawks are subject to cap holds for the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions, they could renounce those exceptions to gain cap room. Either way, they would be looking at adding players by using either the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions or roughly $8 million in cap room plus minimum-salaried players. So even if Evans opts out, Johnson walks, Childress returns to Greece and/or the Hawks renounce those two and all of their other free agents, there’s still not much flexibility for the Hawks.
As for the Hawks using Johnson in a sign-and-trade to get more value in return, the best way for that to happen is trading him to a team that is over the salary cap. Teams with enough cap room can just sign Johnson straight up and, as everyone knows, there are lots of those teams this summer. Already the Heat are reported to have interest in Johnson, who has said he likes them, too.
If Johnson wants a maximum deal under the Bird rules and his new team agrees, he could go back to the Hawks and ask for a sign-and-trade (he can get six years instead of five and up to about $30 million more that way). But the Hawks wouldn’t have much leverage in that situation, especially if Johnson’s new team is offering him the non-bird max and the Hawks don’t want to go that high. In that case if the Hawks say no to a sign-and-trade, then J.J. could just sign with the new team for the non-bird max.
If the Hawks agreed to a sign-and-trade with Johnson’s new team, they could expect to get back something similar to what Seattle acquired in similar circumstances when Rashard Lewis bolted as a free agent for Orlando in 2007: a conditional second-rick pick and a trade exception.
All of this is a long, painful, mind-numbing way of saying Johnson’s value to the Hawks is enhanced not only because he’s their best player, but also because should he leave they won’t have the flexibility to sign a comparable player. The Hawks could try to get better through trades, but then the problem becomes their reluctance to break up their core group (and possibly weaken the roster in other areas) and the difficulty with trading bad contracts for better players. That’s not to mention ASG’s aversion to taking on large, long-term deals and paying the luxury tax (expected to be about $70 million in 2010-11).
So after three straight years in the playoffs and consecutive trips to the East semis, the Hawks would be hard-pressed to be as good or better next season if J.J. leaves. There could potentially be more flexibility the next season, with Jamal off the books and Bibby’s contract more tradeable, but who the heck knows what will happen between now and then.
Now excuse me while I go place bandages over my bleeding eyeballs.
MC
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475 comments Add your comment
Jody
May 19th, 2010
10:01 pm
O’Brien,
“There is nothing wrong with change if it makes you better”.
I couldn’t have said it any better myself. Co-sign that all the way.
A.J Price
May 19th, 2010
10:04 pm
Save Me! I’m cheap too.
ryan
May 19th, 2010
10:08 pm
Well don’t forget Rick Sund drafted Kevin Durant to he also said if he was with Atlanta at that time he would not have past on Chris Paul.
ant banks
May 19th, 2010
10:14 pm
BIG RAY,
you said it all. we are in this mess cause we F’ up 5 drafts picks, 5!!! count ‘em.
titanhawk
May 19th, 2010
10:18 pm
how bout we resign jj and send him with marvin to cleveland for lebron. Our attendence would go up and we could spend more money every year
Mannnn
May 19th, 2010
10:20 pm
“If we loose JJ we will be fine because of George and Ebanks (but we willl likely have to bring 6′5 SG Sirgey Gladyr over to help fill the void).”
There are some very YOUNG folk or just straight up Base heads posting here. The Hawks are a day late and dollar short once again. This should have been taken care of LAST summer. Joe liked Woody and would have stayed if Woody was here. Sund knew he was going to axe Woody last summmer, he should have traded Joe or signed Woody to an extension. BUT no. He spent time energy anddd… MONEY on guys you can get a dime a dozen or as they like to call them the “Core”. Bibby Zsa Zsa and Marv. Now the Hawks are screwed royally. This biggest FA splash in NBA history and the HAWKS lose thier TOP player and cant get nothing in return. New voice??? Need a NEW BRAIN…. and whats wrong with Marc Jackson??? Why isnt he on the list? This goes back to that brain thing I guess.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2010
10:24 pm
LMAO @ O’Brien’s first post… I also thought of northcyde as soon as I read that.
i_am_soulstar
May 19th, 2010
10:26 pm
very informative MC
titanhawk
May 19th, 2010
10:26 pm
jason heyward does it again … why can’t we get that lucky on the hardwood?
robdawg08
May 19th, 2010
10:29 pm
What the hell is a bird free agent ? Basketball economics are crazy. A player leaves and causes you a $15 million cap hit on your 2011 team ?
OK
May 19th, 2010
10:30 pm
Mannnn, You’d retain one of the dumest head coaches in the NBA currently just to keep your star player? HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!! 0_0
Joe went to college, if he’s not smart enough to see that Mike Woodson was a coach who had reached his limit then he doesn’t deserve to don a Hawks uniform.
I could see if Joe were dropping 40+ every other night and could carry a team on his own like LeBron or Kobe. MAYBE then, but Joe? That boy know he needs help (Good coach + Great supporting cast) in order to compete for a title.
Long live Mr. Potato Head! Hahahahaha!!!! ROFLMBO!!!!!!
OK
May 19th, 2010
10:34 pm
robdawg08, Yes, unless you renounce said players rights.
Bird rights allow you o go over the cap in order to sign your own free agents, which means you don’t have to be under the cap in order to offer them a ton of money. If the player is not a part of your team, then in order to offer JJ say, 16mill per year, you would have to be under the cap by that much in order to pull that off.
ryan
May 19th, 2010
10:43 pm
The Hawks are in a mess because we paid to much for Bibby and Marvin Williams and now were going to miss out on this deep class because of Billy Knight and Steve Belken. And the Spirit group is the biggest scam.
clarkekent
May 19th, 2010
10:57 pm
-trade marvin and our 1st for rudy gay and resign JJ.
-let teague start..
-bring back childress as our backup SF or trade him for future 1st rd considerations. 2011 2012
-bring in a shot blocking back-up PF or center … when josh is not on the floor teams head straight to the basket plus since we are stuck with bibby on the 2nd unit we need someone to help him out and ZaZa is not a shot blocker.
northcyde
May 19th, 2010
11:01 pm
(( standing ovation for Mr. Cunningham ))
That article was so beautifully written, it brought a tear to my eye. You researched the topic, compiled the data, and comprehensively came up with your analysis to the point where it cannot be disputed.
(( extended clapping ))
Easily your best blog of your Hawk beat writer career. That was brilliant.
**********
@ O’Brien . . . LOL, it looks like Mr. Gearon may have been reading the blogs. Either that, or I fully understand the management side of this issue we have with the fans not being as “loyal” as they should be.
All the owner said, is that while they may not have made all the right moves, they have made moves to make the product better . . . and it’s done just that.
So now it’s time for the fan base to “grow up”, and start doing their part by supporting the team more ( and not just at the big games ).
As a fan, I understand that. The season ticket holders understand that. The people who go to a lot of games understand that.
But we have a sizeable group of Hawk fans that either don’t understand that . . . or could care less to understand it.
The fans can’t have it both ways. They expect management to go all spending wise, to try to put a winner on the floor . . . but the fans get to pick and choose IF to support the product or not, even if it’s a good ( but not great product )?
Can’t have it both ways. Once the product becomes good, the fans are almost obligated to make every attempt to support the team more.
jlewis
May 19th, 2010
11:06 pm
MC:
I’m still curious about one thing, did JJ re-injure his thumb during the playoffs? If you have some insight, let me know.
jlewis
May 19th, 2010
11:06 pm
MC:
I’m still curious about one thing, did JJ re-injure his thumb during the playoffs? If you have some insight, let me know.
Terrell
May 19th, 2010
11:11 pm
Zach,
To answer your question about us not getting LeBron. The reason we can’t get LBJ is because the way the rules of the salary cap are set up in the NBA. You can go over the salary cap if you are trying to resign your own player to a max contract but you can’t go over the cap to sign another team’s player.
cp
May 19th, 2010
11:17 pm
Its crazy how blowing all those draft picks still haunt this franchise. I still cant believe they took Sheldon freaking Williams at 5. I almost stopped supporting this team after that move. I remember that night so clearly. I don’t think I have ever been that mad during a draft. I just knew the rumor that they were going to take Sheldon was a smoke screen. I said its no way any gm would take that bum that high but BK proved me wrong.
Jay
May 19th, 2010
11:23 pm
Mr. Gearon Jr.,
The reason the Hawks dont draw as well as their record would suggest is because of two main reasons.
1. The Hawks half-court offense is very boring. That is obviously going to change.
2. The Hawks best player is very boring. Yes, I am talking about Joe Johnson. He isn’t fast, he rarely dunks, he rarely shows excitement, he isn’t flashy, and obviously…he doesn’t sell tickets.
Melvin
May 19th, 2010
11:31 pm
Amare can’t guard Gasol or Odom. Let him stay in Phx….
Alan
May 19th, 2010
11:36 pm
Joe has got to go, and it’s not because he’s not a great player. He is.
That being said, his game is designed to actually SLOW the tempo of the game. If you watch Joe get the ball in the open floor, more often than not he actually waits for the opponent to make contact, so that he can beat them with muscle.
If this team is to continue to grow, it will be with speed. We presumably will be starting Jeff Teague at the point next year, and have athletes that can thrive in the open court, if given the chance and the practice to actually effectively learn spacing and ball movement on the break and in transition.
Woody talked a good game about wanting to run, but he comes from the old-school half-court mentality.
We desperately need to hire a coach that can help our offense with ball movement, let Joe go, and realize that next year will be a mini rebuilding one.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2010
11:42 pm
Oh yeah, terrific article MC. I’d like to request a follow up where you discuss the realistic trade value of the Hawks’ key players, so that we don’t see people proposing Marvin and Bibby for LeBron all summer on these blogs.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2010
11:43 pm
Jason Heyward does it again — hitting the game winner, and single-handedly accounting for an increase in attendance for Atlanta’s superstar-starved fan base.
The fact that Joe has clearly proven in the last two playoffs that he is not a superstar is not going to help the Hawks sell tickets. That’s just reality, whether you like it or not. Gearon, being a lifelong ATLien, should understand this by now.
Rod from College Park
May 19th, 2010
11:43 pm
Mr. Gearon,
“Since we bought the team the payroll has increased [by] $24 million What we haven’t done is make a mistake with a bad contract.”
If you think paying a guy 8 million per, who walks like Fred Sanford, and he is only in his early 20’s, can’t hit wide open jumpshots, can’t defend anyone, can’t finish one on one against point guards like Jameer Nelson and Brandon Jennings, shows no emotion, can’t stay on his feet and is one of the worst small forwards in the league is a good contract, then the Hawks are in pretty bad shape. He should a case study for any scientist who is actually trying to discover how to make a human being disappear. I have been a season ticket holder for the past 5 years, and I promised myself that if I have to look at this pathetic excuse for a basketball player another year, I will not renew.
You actually made a mistake drafting the guy, and then you turned around and made the same mistake again by giving him a new contract.
ant banks
May 19th, 2010
11:48 pm
a look at the lottery draft classes from 1985-2008 and grades. hawks are not the only teams who have had horrible picks!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=draftreview/090624
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2010
11:48 pm
Like most of Sund’s decisions, I can’t say I’m all that impressed with his strategy of interviewing people he knows as opposed to the most highly regarded candidates. The whole point of bringing in people for an interview is to see what they have to offer. If you are not going to interview people you don’t know, how are you ever going to know what they have to offer? Maybe the Hawks don’t want to break the bank hiring the coach, but it doesn’t break the bank to interview people.
ant banks
May 19th, 2010
11:54 pm
BIG RAY, MC, ‘POOP, NORTHCYDE, ET AL,
so we will have 8mil this yr, if we lose jj? but do we hamstring ourselves to him for 6yrs wit’ his leadership style, tyin’ up 17mil/yr for 6 yrs to prevent only havin’ 8mil this yr? i am not sure if we should ride this out, let him walk, do the best that we can this yr and have bibby’s contract next yr. to trade.
jus’ thinkin out loud
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2010
11:55 pm
“Since we bought the team the payroll has increased [by] $24 million What we haven’t done is make a mistake with a bad contract.”
I agree with Rod’s post at 11:43, and I’ll take it a step further. Marvin, Bibby, and Zaza — the three most overpaid, untradeable players on the roster — make a combined $16 million next year and $18 million the year after that. It’s nice that the DASG has been willing to increase the payroll since they got here — leaving aside, of course, the fact that if they hadn’t, they would have the lowest payroll in the league. Maybe they haven’t made a mistake on a bad max contract, but paying those three unproductive players that much money is not much better than paying Jermaine O’Neal $23 million. Those contracts are still plenty bad, especially in light of the fact that if the Hawks had let two of those players walk, they would not be in the situation they are now, where they can’t replace Joe if he leaves because they don’t have enough cap room.
ant banks
May 19th, 2010
11:59 pm
this is why i love the contracts of the nfl. they can cut a player and only be responsible for the bonus money against their cap. i hate guaranteed contracts. it hamstrings a team for years.
Not Drinking the Kool-Aid
May 20th, 2010
12:02 am
Why not go ahead and sign J.J., try to trade for an additional draft pick to get a big man and a shooter like Paul George, or a center like Solomon Alabi or Jerome Jordan. George and Alabi will not make it to the Hawks pick, so they either have to move up in the draft or make a trade to move up. Hawks could use their exception to bring a quality free agent like B. Haywood in the middle or Luke Ridnour to run the show until Teague is ready. Please get rid of Mike Bibby(He is like an an anchor around the Hawks neck). If Joe bounces how about signing Ray Allen, who is a free agent, for a year or two, until we can get a shooting guard? Ginobili is also a free agent but would probably cost a considerable amount of money. Just say no to Ebanks he is pretty stiff at the three and really doesn’t have a great jumper, I would rather keep Marvin than go with Ebanks. If the Hawks get a good coach there are a number of creative ways to make this team competitive! Hire Avery or Van Gundy or Byron Scott, or Thibodeax, or Lawrence Franks!!!
HawkKingBibby
May 20th, 2010
12:09 am
Bravo Bravo. I didnt know anyone who wrote here knew what the cap was. Thanks for this article and the effort you put into it.
Ginobili signed
May 20th, 2010
12:14 am
a three year extension with the Spurs two weeks ago.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
12:15 am
Najeh:
I’m hate to disagree with you on our untradeables:
*Marv – contract is not horrible due to his age,
and the fact he has been hamstung by woodson, plus,
his contract #’s are not egregious.
*Zaza – actually a good contact and would be very tradeable.
*Bibby – wait one yr. / exp. contract / becomes tradeable.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
12:18 am
People forget that even though Zaza
has been in the league since 1982
he is only 26 years old.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
12:20 am
“so we will have 8mil this yr, if we lose jj? but do we hamstring ourselves to him for 6yrs wit’ his leadership style, tyin’ up 17mil/yr for 6 yrs to prevent only havin’ 8mil this yr? i am not sure if we should ride this out, let him walk, do the best that we can this yr and have bibby’s contract next yr. to trade. ”
First of all, it’s pretty clear that if the Hawks let Joe walk, they will not be able to replace him with a comparable player, which means they will be taking a step backwards this year and probably next year. Joe is not a superstar — he has clearly proven this in the last two playoffs — but he is still a high level player who is not replaceable with $8 million of cap space. In addition, the Hawks without Joe will probably not be bad enough to get the high lottery pick needed to draft a superstar that would replace Joe. Chances are, with Joe gone, the Hawks become a 40-45 win team (depending on the coach) with little cap flexibility to be able to add the significant piece they need to return to the 50-win level, and remain that way for the next few years. That certainly won’t help ticket sales either.
Because of this, I’m assuming they keep Joe, even if they overpay him to do so. I think at this point with the Hawks’ salary cap situation, one of two things is going to happen in order for the Hawks to reach the next level without taking a significant and long-term step backwards. Either Teague has to develop into the next Rajon Rondo and start shouldering the majority of the offensive load the way Rondo has taken over from the Big Three in Boston, or the Hawks have to pull off a creative trade on the level of Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol with a team trying to shed salary.
If Teague does become a top-5 point guard, the Hawks are in luck. At that point, they probably can keep this core together, add a couple of complementary pieces, and expect to contend for the Eastern Conference title, the way Boston is contending in the ECF despite their Big Three all being on the decline. Looking ahead, that would probably be the ideal situation for this team.
If the Hawks don’t feel that Teague can become that caliber of player, the Hawks have to get creative with a trade. I know Gearon mentions above that the DASG is averse to taking on large contracts, but they may have to consider the possibility that one large bad long-term contract is no worse than the three mid-sized bad long-term contracts they currently have on the books. This is why I come back to the trade I mentioned a few days ago, where the Hawks send their overpaid trifecta of Marvin, Bibby, and Zaza along with Jamal Crawford to the Hornets for Emeka Okafor, Peja Stojakovic, and Darren Collison. Yes, this involves taking back the atrocious contract of Okafor, but it also brings the Hawks a point guard that has proven he can play at a high level and shoulder the offensive load.
Bottom line is, the future growth of the Hawks rests on Josh, Al, and whoever plays point guard being able to take the offensive focus away from Joe, who is not the caliber of player capable of carrying a team on his back in the playoffs. Whether Teague makes that happen by continuing to develop or a trade acquisition makes that happen, it’s the only way the Hawks advance past the 50-win, second-round sweep level now.
Of course, a lot of this assumes the Hawks upgrade at the coaching position, and don’t just hire another Woody.
sleepy
May 20th, 2010
12:25 am
I was all for letting JJ walk unless we got a team friendly deal but we are a in a tough situation so I would reconsider it if we traded Josh instead . I just think that if we are going to bring JJ back then we need to think big and should be looking to use Joshs contract to get another STABLE star quality talent + solid role player to add to JJ and AL. We then use our MLE to fill in whatever else is needed.
The future is now
BIBBY MUST GO NOW!!
May 20th, 2010
12:26 am
We must find a suitor, we MUST get something back for him or he will just hold us back for the next two years!!!! We have to trade him for something NOW!!!! Preferably before NO ONE in the league wants the guy.
This applies to Mo Evans as well.We can’t just let this dork opt out!!! We gotta get a draft pick or a PG like A.J Price for him!
Clyde
May 20th, 2010
12:27 am
*Yawn*
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
12:30 am
Najeh:
As I was disagreeing with your 11:55 PM post;
*I must ‘Co-Sign’! Your 12:20 post.*
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
12:33 am
@ Jay . . . . we won 34 home games. 34. And a lot of those games were pretty exciting, despite the lack of a superstar. The Hawks at home are a dang good entertainment outlet. They win over 75% of the time at home combined in the past 3 seasons.
That’s why I say it’s time for Atlanta to “grow up”. How about rooting for a team that WINS . . period, instead of wanting to root for a winner AND a superstar?
Portland is a “boring” team, with them playing at one of the slowest paces in the NBA. But as they have continued to get better, their fans have come out in droves to support the team.
It’s time for Atlanta to do the same. And stop with the excuses as to NOT do it.
A.J Price
May 20th, 2010
12:36 am
Yooo Hooo! Don’t foget about little old meee!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9nIHfX4N4
A.J Price
May 20th, 2010
12:37 am
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/aj_price/index.html
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
12:55 am
I still wished that last summer, that the Hawks would’ve made a play for Andre Miller. I don’t think they could though, unless they renounced Bibby, leaving us with Teague and Crawford to run the point. I’m not quite sure what our cap situation was last summer, after we made the Crawford trade.
But to be honest, most of the fan base was cool with bringing back Bibby, Zaza, and Marvin, and thought each one got either a fair deal, or was slightly overpaid. Without those 3, we’d have serious depth issues, and may not have had as a successful season as we had.
It’s no like that those contracts look real bad now. Hopefully at least Zaza and Marvin can get back on track.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
1:00 am
It’s no “lie” . . . not “like”
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
1:18 am
Grandad’s – trade o’ the day:
[my (#2) son hates this one]
Toronto gets:
* Josh Smith
* Josh Childress S&T
We get:
* Andrea Bargnani(poison pill proviso)/must trade before 6/1
* Reggie Evans
Bargnani [stretch 4/5] necessary for today’s offenses.
7-1,[37% + 3pt] / 1.5 bl./ avg.sal $2 mil less than Josh
R.Evans – enforcer we need
*unsure of S&T rules.
*I do not want to trade Josh.
A.B. better match with Al.
Bash away !
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
1:25 am
“Without those 3, we’d have serious depth issues, and may not have had as a successful season as we had.”
Maybe, maybe not. Here’s the thing: if Phoenix can sign Channing Frye for $2 million a year, the Hawks could have signed him for the same price. If Orlando can sign Matt Barnes for $1.6 million a year, the Hawks could have signed him for the same price. I don’t expect Marvin or Zaza to have taken pay cuts to sign at those rates, but better to bring in someone new who outperforms their contract than to keep non-core players at higher than market value. Point guards being at a premium as they are, the chances the Hawks could have found a player with Bibby’s resume at that position would have been slim, but they could have at least made his third year a team option (like Andre Miller) instead of a player option. As unproductive as Bibby was this year, it would have been a pretty big risk to not have a veteran PG on the roster.
Say the Hawks let Marvin and Zaza walk last summer and signed Frye and Barnes at their current rates instead. That would have saved them around $7 million; you add that to the $8 million in cap space they would have this summer if Joe walks (as detailed in MC’s article) and the Hawks would be in position to replace Joe with a player of similar caliber. In addition, considering how inconsistent and unproductive Marvin and Zaza were for most of the season and how important Frye and Barnes both were on their contending teams, chances are the Hawks don’t end up sacrificing any depth, and they don’t lose much, if at all, on their 53-win total.
I’m not going to pretend like I’m some kind of genius that foresaw this happening — in fact, I was one of the people who was OK with keeping those three players at the time, although I had reservations about Marvin’s contract, and I specifically didn’t want Frye at the time because of his suspect defense — but Sund gets paid the big bucks to make the right decision in these situations, not me.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
1:27 am
And don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting in my post above that the Hawks would be better off letting Joe walk; I am just saying that the Hawks wouldn’t be painted into a corner like they are now, where they either keep Joe (likely for more than he’s worth) or they let him walk and can’t replace him.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
1:29 am
Grandad, I am with your #2 son. I hate 7-footers who can’t rebound; Bargnani averages a measly 6 boards in 35 minutes. Bargnani is no more capable of guarding Dwight than Smoove, let alone Horford; he accomplishes nothing in the Hawks’ supposed quest to move Horford to PF. HB Ando used to talk about trading Marvin for Bargnani, and I didn’t even like that idea, let alone trading the #2 DPOY for his soft, jump-shooting azz.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
2:22 am
Najeh:
Touche!