Sund: Players Need ‘Another Voice’ After Six Years of Woodson’s
The Hawks decided not to offer coach Mike Woodson a new contract.
Woodson coached the Hawks for six seasons. The team improved its record in each of the last five years, including a 53-29 record this season that was fifth-best in franchise history, but GM Rick Sund decided the team needs a new leader.
“It was a hard decision,” Sund said. “When I analyzed and looked at it, I went round and round. Finally I think it got to the situation where the compelling thought is, ‘Maybe change is good for everybody.’ That happens quite a bit in the NBA. Maybe the players need to hear another voice, and maybe Mike needs to talk to another group.”
Sund declined to comment on the details of his evaluation of Woodson. Sund also didn’t want to discuss any potential candidates to replace Woodson or offer a broad outline of what qualities he wants in a successor.
Early media speculation has centered on Dallas assistant Dwane Casey, whom the Hawks interviewed before hiring Woodson. Sund was the Seattle GM when Casey was an assistant coach there for five seasons.
Woodson, who is free to seek other jobs, did not return a message. He has defended his tenure with the Hawks while highlighting accomplishments that include three consecutive playoffs appearances, and said he received unfairly harsh criticism for the team’s loss to Orlando in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
But Hawks management had doubts that Woodson’s approach would lead to further improvement, according to two people with knowledge of the decision. Among their concerns was that Woodson would have an increasingly difficult time getting through to his players if he returned.
Some players felt Woodson didn’t rebuke certain players as strongly as he did others for their mistakes, according to four people familiar with the locker-room dynamics. The differing levels of accountability led to resentment for some players , the people said.
Players credited Woodson with helping to maintain a loose atmosphere and reducing the length, frequency, and intensity of practices in an effort to keep them fresh for the playoffs. But one player said he hopes a new coach who doesn’t “play favorites” can improve the team’s chemistry.
Beyond those issues, the Hawks weren’t satisfied with Woodson’s 8-14 postseason record over the past two seasons. Last season the Hawks beat Miami in the first round before losing 4-0 to Cleveland in the semifinals. This season the Hawks beat Milwaukee in the opening round before losing in four games to the Magic by an NBA-record total margin of 101 points.
Hawks forward Josh Smith said the team’s decision to part ways with Woodson despite his success is a sign of the higher expectations for the franchise.
“It feels good to know we are not just satisfied with just being the eighth seed or improving every season,” he said. “We’ve got expectations of going to the playoffs every year and being a difference-maker in the playoffs. The organization has everything going in the right direction.”
Woodson, 52, had a 206-286 record with the Hawks. He took over for Terry Stotts in 2004-05 after previously serving as an assistant coach in Detroit, Philadelphia, Cleveland and Milwaukee.
Former Hawks GM Billy Knight tried to fire Woodson more than once during his third season but ownership rebuffed him. Knight resigned after the 2008 season and was replaced by Sund, who signed Woodson to a two-year contract after he guided the Hawks to their first postseason appearance in eight years.
Smith is the only player on the roster to play all six seasons under Woodson. The two had a contentious relationship at times but Smith said they had come to an understanding.
“It was rough starting out, but everything was smooth sailing a couple of years ago once we finally figured out what we wanted out of each other,” Smith said. “You just hate to see somebody you came in the game with leave like this.”
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590 comments Add your comment
northcyde
May 15th, 2010
7:45 pm
Yeah . . that will be the built-in excuse that people will use, if Teague doesn’t perform halfway decent next year. He got so little run in his rookie year, that we can’t possibly expect him to perform when everything is “tossed all on him all of a sudden” next year. What’s the cry for Acie? “Woody ruined him”? The same will be said of Teague if he doesn’t perform well . . . instead of just placing blame on the actual player.
Of course, if he does perform well, those same people will say that . . “see . . . we knew that the kid could ball. Woody held him back.”
JeJe
May 15th, 2010
7:54 pm
It’s REALLY PATHETIC WHEN YOU HAVE A COACH WHO EMPHASIZES DEFENSE YET YOUR TEAM DOESN’T PLAY IT
“Whoever takes over, it’s likely that he’ll be encouraged to increase the tempo, run more elaborate offensive sets, and emphasize defense more than the previous regime.”
FIRE WOODY
Big Ray
May 15th, 2010
7:54 pm
Northcyde ,
I for one will never understand how the Childress situation keeps coming up. If he wants back in the league, I think he waits until next year. I don’t see him in a Hawks uniform, and the idea of him as a starter is even less certain, as we don’t even know how much he may or may not have improved, or even who our head coach is going to be.
Would I like Childress back? Yes. Even though I would have picked Luol Deng or Andre Iguodala over him, the guy was smart and efficient. He has/had one fugly looking jumper, but he averaged 52% shooting from the field 36% from the arc, and got you 11 points, 5 or 6 rebounds, 2 assists, and 1 steal per game. And those were his career averages. If ever there was somebody who did all the little things consistently and kept up the energy level, it was him.
What a lot of people don’t remember is that Sund placed the priority on Josh Smith that summer, and Childress was told to go find an offer. Well, his agents found one, and it was more than any NBA team was going to pay him. Here’s the part nobody seems to remember- It was reported that Sund and his assistant GM rushed up to Washington to offer him something around the MLE (maybe a little higher) AFTER Olympiakos made their offer. I can’t say that enough times. The Olympiakos offer was reported first. The Hawks offer was reported later. Timing is everything, and I think no one saw that coming (except maybe his agents). An offer made before that of the Greek team might have been signed off on, or at least a S&T orchestrated. Sund got beat on that one.
I think you’re right about what Sund will try to do with Childress. But this is interesting:
Some of ya’ll better start reading between the lines with how this organization operates. A lot of you think that they’re going to go all out to build a championship caliber team here.
Actually, I think that a lot of people don’t understand all the money figures and things of that nature (I don’t understand it all myself). At the same time, I think plenty of people have known for some time that what you say in that last sentence is true. Which is why they may not feel so compelled to make the Hawks a family entertainment priority, as you suggested they should earlier in the season.
Clyde
May 15th, 2010
7:55 pm
Samuel = Woody’s long lost son
JeJe
May 15th, 2010
7:59 pm
THE REASON U DONT HEAR BIG NAME COACHES ATTACHED TO HAWKS HEAD COACH POSITION IS BECAUSE EVERYONE IN NBA OUTSIDE OF NBA KNOWS WE ARE THE LAUGHINGSTOCK OF THE LEAGUE AND THAT THE OWNERS ARE DIRT POOR.
GEARON SAID WE ARE RESPECTED NOW? LOL
WE WOULDA BEEN SWEPT BY CLEVELAND IF WE PLAYED THEM INSTEAD OF BOSTON
The Hawks’ open head coaching position is by far the most attractive one out there right now (besides maybe Chicago), yet you hear NO big name coaches linked to us EVER. How the hell are we allegedly going after Dwyane Casey (however you spell his name)? He has accomplished nothing in this league. Our idiot GM is so damn infatuated with Seattle that anyone who has ever been there is automatically contacted to be a part of this franchise.
The big name coaches know our owners HAVE NO MONEY AND ARE RUNNING ON A BARE BONES BUDGET.
THE OWNERS HAVE TO SELL A 1ST RDER JUST TO RESIGN A PLAYER WHO IS NOT EVEN A SUPERSTAR IN THIS LEAGUE.
HOW ARE U TRYING TO GET INVESTORS FOR THE THRASHERS? THAT TEAM SUCKS
HOW IS 2M THE MOST THE ASG WILL SPEND FOR A COACH? WHAT A JOKE. THERE IS NO DESIRE TO WIN WITH THIS DAMN FRANCHISE. ARE U TELLING ME A TEAM THAT IS 1 COACH AND 1 OR 2 GOOD PLAYERS AWAY FROM THE NBA FINALS IS LOOKIN AT SAM MITCHELL, TYRONE CORBIN, OR DWANE CASEY AS THE NEW COACH?
MY GOD. SOMEONE GET ME OUT OF THIS CITY
IF ASG IS SO DESPERATE FOR REVENUE, THEN SIGN ALLEN IVERSON AND SHAQ AND LET THEM PLAY BIG MINUTES
FIRE WOODY
Big Ray
May 15th, 2010
8:15 pm
Northcyde ,
All too true. Fratello’s playoff record is worse than Woody’s, and worse than several other guys’ records. To be honest, I’m not going to harp too much on his regular season overall coaching record. He has spent probably twice as much time at the helm as Woodson has, which means he had the opportunity to be either more or less successful.
Something about Fratello does rub me wrong, however. I think he is every bit as tenacious and demanding as Scott Skiles, but I think Skiles lacks his arrogance. Who Sund replaces Woodson with will be a serious mark for the better or worse on him. At least the man acknowledges it.
I also think that trading Josh Smith, as good as he is/can be, may be a move this franchise has to make.
As far as Jeff Teague goes, I’m serious about him going into next year as basically a rookie. I don’t think he was made responsible enough, even though 53 wins definitely made Woody’s decision to play him sparingly look like something that couldn’t be argued with. I’m not sold on him as a starter either, but the main reason for that is I haven’t seen him get as many minutes as Acie Law did before Mike Bibby came around. What can he really do? I expect a certain amount of learning curve from a rookie, even more so from a guy who was the 7th pg taken in the draft. I mean, if you’re looking for a starter in the latter third of the first round, you have issues. That’s not to say that I won’t expect some serious contributions out of him. But I haven’t seen enough of him to really lean towards him failing as a starter. He just hasn’t been through the fire yet.
That’s the trick with Acie. He got the chance until Bibby came around. He did kinda okay, but when Bibby got there, it turned into “playoffs or bust” and clearly he was better than Acie, so Woody played him a lot. The other thing was that Acie kept getting injured every five minutes, it seemed. Woody was not in the mood for that, having already been through that ringer with Speedy Claxton, so I don’t blame him for that.
That’s one thing people kept forgetting: Acie’s lack of PT had enough to do with frequent injuries and stuff, that he hurt himself. Sorry, but if you haven’t proven a damn thing yet, and you keep getting hurt, why should anybody take a further chance on you when they’re trying to get to a winning record?
Big Ray
May 15th, 2010
8:23 pm
A couple more points.
Whether Joe Johnson remains will also affect Jeff Teague, but we don’t know for sure just how, as of yet. If Joe stays, it could really help Teague, depending on the offensive philosophy and Teague’s play. He absolutely MUST improve that jumper of his, because there will be teams who will dare him to shoot from the outside, while they collapse the driving lanes. Having a guy like Joe could mean a lot of assists.
If Joe leaves, Teague will still have opportunities, but he will not have a 4-time all-star who doubles as a playmaker, to pass to. That puts the pressure directly on Teague to get the ball to guys who can score, and in the right places. Not to mention scoring on his own. Will this be a good thing or bad thing? Depends mostly on Teague.
Of course, if he does perform well, those same people will say that . . “see . . . we knew that the kid could ball. Woody held him back.”
“I told you so.” What can be said, it’s a blog favorite, and it’s all some people live for.
Big Ray
May 15th, 2010
8:42 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
May 15th, 2010
4:47 pm
If you look around the league, a disproportionate number of head coaches and assistant coaches are former point guards. It’s not easy for fans to be able to tell whether an NBA coach, especially an assistant, is going to be good, because there are a lot of factors involved that we are not in a position to observe (unlike football where how high a coordinator’s unit is ranked year after year is a pretty good indicator of how effective of a head coach he will be). Assistants in the NBA are not specialized enough to be able to predict their head coaching success by observing the success of the team. But seeing as how Jerry Sloan, Scott Skiles, Nate McMillan, Byron Scott, Avery Johnson, Lenny Wilkens, and so many other successful coaches are former point guards, I’d like to see the Hawks look in that direction.
I’ll co-sign that and even make the monthly payments…LOL
Samuel
May 15th, 2010
8:48 pm
Hubie Brown Playoff record- .368
Woody Playoff record- .379
Michael
May 15th, 2010
8:53 pm
53 wins means a lot to the fans who actually paid for and attended games. To fools on a blog, not so much.
Ken Strickland
May 15th, 2010
8:55 pm
I have to agree with BIG RAY on the Fratello hire. When he coached the Hawks, I distinctly remember how some to his players, including DWilkins, went to ownership behind his back and tried to get him fired. They stopped listening to him as well. I also remember some of the Laker players, including Magic, doing the same thing to PRiley.
Whoever we hire, you can bet they’ll have an extensive OFF background. We have enough pure athletes, who are capable of playing straight man to man DEF, to be solid defensively. We need to become more consistent offensively. Getting Marvin back to the 15pt range, and Teague into the 12-14pt range, and tightening up our on the ball DEF, will lessen the blow if we lose JJ.
Here’s what I see happening with JJ. He’s almost certainly going to get a high offer from someone, just like Smoove got from the Grizzles. If we feel comfortable with the offer, we’ll match it and retain his services. If the offer is too high, we’ll match it and do a sign and trade. Personally, I hope we retain his services, because he’s not uncoachable, he just hasn’t been coached since he’s been with the Hawks.
He proved with his yrs with the Suns that he can play effectively without the ball in his hands. When you’re forced to play in an OFF system, and with a philosophy that’s built exclusively around jump shooting and ISO’s, how many options did he have other than to try and create his own shot?
If we keep our basic roster in place, start Teague, and hire a HC that does the little things Woodson was unable of unwilling to do, this will be a much better team overall. One that’s more than capable of competing with Orlando and Cleveland.
JeJe
May 15th, 2010
9:41 pm
People need to understand that The ASG is losing a LOT of money on both teams — they are NOT willing to go into the luxury tax. This means they will not spend the money to bring in a proven winning coach and they will not overspend to get superstars here. So you all better get used to competing with rosters similar to this year’s in the future.
Didn’t The ASG tell Sund a year ago they’d go into the luxury tax if he was serious about winning?
FIRE SUND
Samuel
May 15th, 2010
9:42 pm
Ken,
You are very delusional if you think that starting Jeff Teague with the basic roster we have and a new coach will allow us to compete with Orlando or Cleveland w/LeBron. You’ve really lost it, buddy.
Ken Strickland
May 15th, 2010
9:46 pm
SAMUEL
HUBIE BROWN
NBA PLYOFF WINS-14 LOSSES-24 WON/LOSS %.368
ABA PLYOFF WINS-25 LOSSES-17 WON/LOSS %.680
TOTAL PLYOFF WINNING PERCENTAGE IS .492
MIKE WOODSON
NBA PLYOFF WINS-11 LOSSES-18 WON/LOSS %.392
With Woodson’s inability to even make his team competitive in the 2nd rd of the playoffs, you can bet his playoff winning percentage would have continued to drop.
Ken Strickland
May 15th, 2010
10:06 pm
SAMUEL-allow me to illustrate delusional for you.
(1) Thinking that MWoodson is the best possible solution for the Hawks.
(2) Thinking he is somehow going to make the team better offensively and defensively next season, after 6yrs of ineptitude in these areas.
(3) Thinking he can somehow make the team competitive against Cleveland and Orlando next season by insisting on starting an inconsistent, waaay over the hill PG that’s a total liability on both ends of the court, and a SF that’s an OFF liability, when he didn’t do a damned thing all season.
(4) Thinking there’s no other coaching prospect available that can do a better job of coaching the Hawks than Woodson.
NOW THAT’S DILUSIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grandad
May 15th, 2010
10:07 pm
I tried to post two seperate articles about Tom Thibodeau
and his difficulty getting a HC job due to his intensity.
Organizations have turned him down for being too intense.
However, the blog monster ate both, even though I tried to
follow all guidelines with which I’ve followed in past.
Bottom line he is intense / doesn’t coddle / and has shared
scouting, offensive, defensive, game planning as well as
other HC duties with Doc and is fully prepared and
well rounded enough to be a HC and not just a def. guy.
However Def. is his meal ticket.
i’ll try again with the article later.
Samuel
May 15th, 2010
10:09 pm
Ken,
You’re reaching son. OK, Woody has a ring. Hubie doesn’t. ABA. That’s funny.
Big Ray
May 15th, 2010
10:13 pm
Grandad ,
Nobody completely undertands the blog monster. I have a hard time with is as moderator of the Hawks Fan Nest blog. I’ve just learned to check the filter early and often, and respond to e-mail complaints about eaten posts. It’s all one can do, really, if one has the time to do it.
As for Thibodeau, if he’s more intense than Skiles, then I’m not surprised that he hasn’t gotten a head coaching job. Skiles was reportedly fired at least partially because his style was wearing on players in Chicago. Personally, I think the bigger issue was managment needed a scape goat after ridding themselves of the two young bigs they drafted (among other things). But I digress….
Perhaps intensity in and of itself is not the issue. Perhaps it’s “intensity with direction and purpose.” A coach must know how to channel his passions and make them work. Intensity is like energy. Improperly used, it can cause harm or run out prematurely. It also needs direction. That would be what I’d look for when interviewing a guy like Thibodeau. Also, what would he do about the offensive side of things?
Hoops
May 15th, 2010
10:22 pm
The link below is of an article on SI from Peachtree Hoops. It is a great read on possible canditates for the Hawks Head Coaching position.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2010/5/15/1473504/hawks-coaching-search-whos-next
Big Ray
May 15th, 2010
10:30 pm
Ken ,
It certainly doesn’t happen overnight. Becoming a better team doesn’t always mean going from one set of regular season victories to a better one the next year. We’ve already seen evidence to this effect.
I also don’t think that “competing” with them means beating them all the time. That’s not competition, that’s domination, which is what they’ve done to us. A better team actually competes, something we did not do. Better TEAM , a concept that some people seem to keep confusing with a more talented team.
Case in point, we have more talent than Charlotte does. So why did we lost by an average of 24 or 25 points, with our closest game being a pair of 14 point losses, with the more egregious ones by 30 and 43 points?
Charlotte got swept as well, but they actually COMPETED. They lost one game by only 4 points, and two more by 9 points each. Their worst loss was by 15 points, only one point worse than our “best” losses.
Charlotte won fewer regular season games than we did. They have less talent than we do. They competed far better than we did against Orlando, losing by a total of 37 points. We lost by 101. Which team was better , us or them?
Without Joe, it will be difficult to become a better team. We’ll be a less talented team, but we could become a better one over time (though it would be much easier WITH JOE, and I prefer we do so WITH Joe) with the right chemistry and philosophy.
However, it will take more change than just the head coach.
Big Ray
May 15th, 2010
10:40 pm
Samuel ,
What gets me is that every time we talk about failure, it’s about the kind of players that Woody has that’s responsible. If that theory holds, then how did Mike Brown and his Cavs lose? Didn’t you say about a year or two ago that Lebron was going to win everything from here on out? I distinctly remember you saying so, and that it almost wouldn’t matter what anybody else did. Then they added Shaq, and you said it was all over for certain.
Then we wake up, and Lebron and his boys have been shut out from the East Finals for the second year in a row. The Cavs have the biggest and deepest front line. They have Lebron. And the old-a$$ Celtics beat them in six games.
Proof that you can saddle a coach with some of the best talent and help in the world, and he can still bungle the job.
So, I have a hard time going with the theory that Woody just needed some better players to go on his roster. Especially after the less talented Charlotte Bobcats competed much better against the Magic than we did. Or is it just because Larry Brown is a superior coach?
By the way, any assistant of any head coach who wins a championship ring, gets a championship ring. They get that ring by holding the clipboard of the guy who is in charge, and doing what he says. That’s how Woody got his ring.
Look at all the coaches whose teams have won NBA Championships in the last 10 years. Are all of their assistants as good as Woody? Because they all got their rings the same way he did…
Samuel
May 15th, 2010
10:58 pm
Hoops,
The same names mentioned for every job. The one that intrigues me the most is Sam Mitchell. Doc is out of the question as far as i’m concerned. I could get with that. he reminds me of Woody. Kinda railroaded you know.
Sam=COY
Samuel
May 15th, 2010
11:06 pm
Ray,
It was a joke man. Please. Just like Ken counted Hubie’s ABA ring. I never said it was over and that Lebron would win every ring from here on. If someone was screwing your mom, that might throw you off too.
Why do yall keep counting points as if that really counts. The Bobcats got swept just like we did. It will go down on wikipedia as 0-4 just like ours.
LB&JS=HSCOY
Samuel
May 15th, 2010
11:07 pm
Horse Shoes Coach of the Year
slim4jr
May 15th, 2010
11:10 pm
Woody was a bad hire from day one but Billy Knight thought he was to quote himself on 790 the zone radio ” The so called basketball expert”… Sund has got to make more sound decisions then Knight did. Josh Chill is not the answer at the starting #3. He lacks a jump shot that is reliable. It’s much worse the Williams shot. He’d be better coming off the bench to relieve Rudy Gay if Sund can sign him up..
Word on the street has it that Lebron found out a secret about his Mom’s before game four and that’s why he seemed out of character or disinterested from then onward.. If it’s true its truly a sad day in his house hold…
Samuel
May 15th, 2010
11:15 pm
By the way Ray, are you on or off the fence. I can never tell with you.
JeJe
May 15th, 2010
11:24 pm
Wow I had no idea about these LBJ/Delonte rumours…I’m out of country–does everyone on the mainland know about this?
Wow….
Geemack
May 15th, 2010
11:25 pm
You guys are correct the Woody era had run it’s course.
I’ve been one of the major Woody supporters on this blog, but during the playoffs I saw just how badly the team just stop responding to the coaching staff. Woody had a good run here I hope he lands a job with a veteran that’s better suited for his coaching style.
Wabe
May 15th, 2010
11:34 pm
Another night of good reads.
Big Ray
May 15th, 2010
11:46 pm
Samuel ,
Uh, yeah you did say Lebron had the championship locked up for the forseeable future. You just don’t remember. Must have been the salt deposits in your water. Glad you got out of that okay. Heart disease could have been on the horizon, and you know how prevalent that is amongs “us.”
As for Lebron, all I can say is that the guy having “relations” with my mom is the one I’ve called “Dad” or “Pops” my whole life. If that story was true, then Delonte would have had to roll around with a lot more firepower than he got caught with, if I was Lebron. In fact, he might wanna call in the Marines…
Am I on the fence about what? I don’t like being on the fence. Hurts my balls.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 15th, 2010
11:49 pm
Stan Van Gundy is about as intense a coach as there is in the league, and his team is looking like the favorites to win the title right now.
Geemack
May 15th, 2010
11:51 pm
I keep hearing a lot about the Hawks needing a pg. Keep in mind we already have a pg (JT-0). All the Hawks need to do is put him on the court and let him go to work.
The other move that has to happen is Horford must be moved to the 4.
I don’t care what we do with Smoove, but he should not be playing the 4 ahead of Al.
Also the next coach needs to make it clear that Horford is the leader for this team!
Big Ray
May 15th, 2010
11:51 pm
As for Lebron and these rumors, the man did all he could in those games.
What, averaging 27 points, 9 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steals and a block weren’t good enough?
Well, even Jordan couldn’t win 1 on 5. Rumors don’t explain dude going for 27 points, 19 rebounds, and 10 assists in game six. $hitty coaching and play by teammates does, though.
Big Ray
May 15th, 2010
11:55 pm
The truth about the head coach position in the NBA:
Oklahoma City Thunder exercised a team option on 2010 COY winner Scotty Brooks last month, extending his contract through 2012. That’s a two year extension. For a COY winner. Get my drift…
Geemack
May 16th, 2010
12:02 am
Najeh Davenpoop
I thinks the Lakers and Celtic will have something to say about that. Perrsonally if the Hawks are not in the running, I want Kobe to get it every year. I would love to see Kobe get 7 and pass MJ, however not if the Hawks put together a championship team.
Also how hard is it to look impressive when you play an inferior opponent (the Bobcats), and a bunch of punks who want fight back (the Hawks).
Kerry J
May 16th, 2010
12:06 am
It’s been frustrating watching this team’s lack of creativity on the offensive end of the court with all the athleticism they have. I believe good coaches coach to the strength of their team and the Hawks strength was it’s youth and athleticism. Press the ball on defense, run on the rebound, and create some motion in the offense away from the ball. That’s what I hope for in the next coach.
Big Ray
May 16th, 2010
1:47 am
Stan Van Gundy is “intensity with a purpose and direction.”
Intensity is like energy, without direction, it is a colossal waste. Which is why “we need to play with more energy” as a post game quote after a loss has mostly been a joke to me. Oh sure, it applied at times, but it was an old standby excuse for some BS a lot of the time.
Josh Smith plays with a lot of intensity early, usually. How often has it resulted in busted plays, fouls, technicals, turnovers….see my point? Intensity requires direction.
Ken Strickland
May 16th, 2010
1:50 am
What LeBron has experienced the last 2yrs is exactly what JJ has experienced. Both players have been asked to make a very limited OFF scheme work, and if either player falters, everything falls apart. The difference is the Cavaliers have more talent, and utilize more of their talent, and LeBron is a far superior one on one player than JJ.
SAMUEL-I’ll tell you what funny is. Your attempt to discredit the ring Hubie Brown won as a HC in the ABA, while trying to infer that the championship ring Woodson received as a 2nd assistant to LBrown, is somehow a greater accomplishment. Hawks management, ownership and the majority of the fans felt Woodson wasn’t capable of doing any better or making the team any better.
And you stubbornly insist on making excuses for his stubbornness, inflexibility, lack of vision, personal bias’, and stupidity. Who else but a stupid HC would refuse to accept that Bibby and Marvin were hurting the team, yet stubbornly insist on starting and playing them major mins, without making a single adjustment or modification to the OFF, or single lineup change? The really stupid part is, he refused to do anything knowing his job and potential career were on the line.
YOU SEEM TO POSSESS THE SAME INFLEXIBILITY, STUBBORNESS, STUPIDITY AND UNWILLINGNESS TO ACCEPT THE OBVIOUS THAT WE CAME TO EXPECT FROM WOODSON. I guess that’s why you love him sooo much.
Ken Strickland
May 16th, 2010
1:58 am
BIG RAY-when I say we’ll be a better team, I’m not referring to, or focusing on won/loss record alone, unlike our delusional friend SAMUEL. We’ll be a much better team if we win more road gms, eliminate 4th qtr collapses, and not lose so many gms to substandard teams.
Clyde
May 16th, 2010
2:03 am
Samuel was M.I.A during the Orlando series. Now when the smoke clears he wants to come out of the closet. smh
smh
May 16th, 2010
2:17 am
Like I thought Samuel couldn’t answer any questions. He cant come up with any type of reasons why Woodson was such a great coach. All he does is ignore it and try to bring up other coaches playoff records as if Woodson is so much better. Samuel when you make up Woodsons bed in the morning what kind of candy do you leave on the pillow? When the Hawks were getting pounded by 40 plus points this clown was no where to be found. Now all of a sudden he is back and once again making silly post. I truly hope you start following whatever team Woodrow goes to.
ant banks
May 16th, 2010
2:24 am
what will bringin’ in larry drew do? he was apart of the last regime. his voice won’t be that much different from woody, will it? what can he say to the team in october trainin’ camp that he couldn’t say in the milwaukee series?
steve
May 16th, 2010
2:35 am
Yesterday the Hawks took a step backwards.Woodson gets the Hawks there 6th straight season of improvement.They take on a very good Orlando team,who could go to the finals,and bag Woodson.Instead of continuing getting better every year,in 10-11, they think Woodson is a hinderence.If most Hawks fans would look when Woodson took over they were around 15 wins,and seats that reflected dead air with no people in them.Woodson helped make them a profit,money to keep the Hawks there in Atlanta. This year Hawks fans fill Phillips, and are energized with Hawks filling there heads,and they deiced Woodson has fallen off the apple cart,instead of having him be the leader along with the Hawks front office to make moves for next year, to move forward,witch he has done every year since he took over..Look at the Jazz, 1 year of below 500 for a season, since 84, and 13+ years of 50 and above.How??They have the coaching staff run the team,everything evolves from the team. The coaches run the team, not the players,media,or a owner with a trigger finger…PERIOD..most of the owners in the NBA don’t gets this ..the JAZZ DO..The Hawks did for 6 years,except yesterday.Now we will see who runs the Company the players,owners,or the team.Or a new coach, who has to be better than Woodson.Witch is a TUFF ACT TO FOLLOW, With 6 years of GREAT PROGRESS.53 WINS THIS YEAR!! i Hope Woodson lands somewhere he deserves it.. I hope the the Hawks learn STABILITY IS THE ANSWER, NOT PANIC ATTACKS..
Woodys No Goody
May 16th, 2010
2:42 am
Please don’t bring in another nobody to run this team. Get a proven winner. They are out there!
smh
May 16th, 2010
2:59 am
Woodson lovers are more stuck on this we won 53 games speech more than he is. Once again can any of you tell us what else besides these 53 wins makes Woodson a great coach. I have yet to see that answer.
BBgenie
May 16th, 2010
8:00 am
Well Hawks Hater’s you got what you wanted!! Fired Woody! But be very careful, what you ask for. Name me one NBA coach who could come into a situation where you have (9) I mean (12) owners. No real DEEP pockets $$$$$$ man. Red Necks and Blacks Necks everywhere, (you know who you are). The same people who were Mad when we made to Playoffs for the first time,Three years ago, The same people who will Regret/Go Down with Mr.Josh Smith as your” Want to be Leader”. The same ASG who are currently in a Legal battle that will Bankrupt the Group. The same ASG who would not allow Woody to Draft Chris Paul or Deron Williams. The same group who would not pay for one 7′0ft player to be on the Roster, when most NBA Teams have (3). The same Broke ASS ASG who CHARGED the fans $5.00 for a White -Out T-shirt @ a Playoff game. The same ASG/Rick Sund who took Woodson, Advance Scouting crew away from him. Couldnt afford to pay for (1) Scout. Coach paid for the scout out of his pocket. The same Tight ass ASG who Thinks Byron Scott, Avery Johnson, or Jeff Van Gundy will come to the ATL and coach this Team. Led by Two Punk Ass NBA players in Joe Johnson & Smooth. Good Luck Woody and Great job! Can’t wait to see you Bring a NBA Team to Highlight Factory and Kick some ASS. At least you don’t have to Deal with Smooth Cry Baby Ass no more!!!!!!!
BBgenie
May 16th, 2010
8:05 am
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JeJe
May 16th, 2010
8:46 am
It’s clear LBJ had a massively overrated supporting cast.
Mo Williams got punked by Rondo, who is a top 2 PG next to Deron. Shaq and Ilgy are old as hell and suck on the most part (unless it’s against us). Varejao is a pest and I love his game but he seems a little inconsistent. Jamison is faling off.
I must commend the Hawks though. We made it to the 2nd round the last 2 years playing 3 on 5 every night. Marvin and Bibby were not actually playing for us, even though it was listed in the starting lineups. JJ, Smoove, and Horfy did a good job against the opposing 5
FIRE WOODY
doc
May 16th, 2010
9:15 am
sautee at your 6:30 post, so true.
as far as our knowing who might be the next great it is a shot in the dark. this area is the grayest for fans,
with that said i will bring up a name that ultimately may be in the coaching ranks. i wonder how matt harpring will be as a coach?
doc
May 16th, 2010
9:40 am
jeje you said:
“People need to understand that The ASG is losing a LOT of money on both teams — they are NOT willing to go into the luxury tax. This means they will not spend the money to bring in a proven winning coach and they will not overspend to get superstars here. So you all better get used to competing with rosters similar to this year’s in the future.”
though i understand what you are saying and totally agree i think that is why they should spend more for a good coach because that doesnt affect their luxury tax at all. in fact if the reasoning is a good coach is worth his money because he gets more out of his players and coaches them up then theoretically he is worth the money they spend for him because there is less needed for payroll. if they think saving money on coaches saves money on players they are even more stupid that i thought they were. that is really backward thinking.
exhibit a was the woody offensive system developed when he came. after all, just look how much money has been spent on bibby to finally realize what most of us saw within twenty games of his being here that his wheels were gone and there was no tread left to create an offense we never had. maybe a different coach would have afforded them the luxury of not spending all that money to run an offense that never was there and be the veteran that was needed to make chicken salad out of the chicken sh!t woody had come up with in four years as an offense. pounding the ball didnt begin with joe johnson, it was on full display by lue as well.
in the end coaching is not where to save money if you know quality. go spend some money and even steal a coach if you have to to get a good one. either that or really know who the next great one is.
we as fans can only conjecture this. we really dont know the inner workings in basketball. all bets are off with these lists as we have nothing to base our assessments on. the guy in boston might be great but is he tex winter and not have the capacity to be the head coach and is he simply a great basketball mind to have someone else borrow concepts from like doc has done? see we have no clue and the answer to that one is critical.
people skills with players and assistants may be most important and getting strong basketball minds around him that he trusts and delegates to. if woody had a weakness that is it. he constantly referred back to it during after the season was over. in the thick of battle he was stationed all alone, non communicative to his players and coaches in his BWAF stance. in practice, people skills may have been woody’s asset. i certainly said so on many occasions, i admired what he was wanting to create. it was just not in games and during series is my guess and certainly not in interviews. “we just need to rebound better and play defense”, woody. WJNRBPDW
okay manny t i tried.