Atlanta Hawks: Roster Report
A version of this will appear in print but I had to cut down for space. I can’t be held back here. Based on reporting, educated guesses, observation and a big analytical assist from the Synergy Sports Machine.
Joe Johnson, 6-7, G
Contract: Unrestricted free agent
Look back: Media voted Johnson to the All-NBA third team, his first such honor. He also made the All-Star game for the fourth consecutive season. Johnson’s size, knack for creating his own shot, shooting ability, ball handling skills and ability to defend guards and forwards makes him one of the more versatile players in the league. His fine season was marred by a poor performance in the playoffs and his flip response to fans who booed him.
Look ahead: Hawks GM Rick Sund said he wants to re-sign Johnson, one of the top shooting guards in the league, but there are risks to giving him a an expensive, long-term deal. Johnson will be 29 this summer and production for shooting guards tends to decline around that age. His deliberate, one-on-one style was effective when he made baskets but tended to damage team dynamics at times. Johnson said he hasn’t ruled out a return to the Hawks but will test the market. If he signs elsewhere, the Hawks won’t have the flexibility to sign another high-priced free agent.
Al Horford, 6-10, C
Contract: $5.4 million in 2010-11, eligible for restricted free agency following the season
Look back: Named to the All-Star team in just his third pro season, Horford developed a reliable mid-range jump shot to go along with a pretty good post game. He’s one of the top post defenders in the league despite being undersized for his position. Emerged as a leader late in the season, publicly calling out teammates for poor effort in the Orlando series.
Look ahead: Horford said he plans to continue to develop his jump shot and also a counter-move in the post. Horford has one more season left on his rookie-scale contract and the Hawks can secure the right to match any offer he receives as a restricted free agent. Since he’s one of the best bargains in the league, he wouldn’t seem to be a trade candidate.
Josh Smith, 6-9, F
Contract: $11.6 million in 2010-11, with two years and $25.6 million after that
Look back: In many ways it was a breakout season for Smith, who was the runner up to Dwight Howard for Defensive Player of the Year and second-team All Defense. Smith was often the energy guy, starting runs by blocking shots, getting steals, and running the floor. He became a very good passer for a power forward and was particularly effective with setting up teammates for open jump shots. But he had a high turnover rate for his position, continued to shoot long jump shots despite a very poor percentage and was lax on running out to shooters. Smith also sometimes lost focus when he got frustrated.
Look ahead: Smith made the decision to stop shooting 3-pointers after watching video of his games last summer. He said he will go to the video again this summer so perhaps he will figure out those long jump shots are not an effective option and also see how his sulking affects his effort. Still, Smith had a very good season overall. He probably would have good trade value due to his production, age, and relatively palatable contract.
Jamal Crawford, 6-5, G
Contract: $10.1 million in 2010-11
Look back: Sund’s trade for Crawford turned out to be one of the best deals in the league. Crawford was the Hawks’ second-leading scorer and provided punch off the bench while earning the Sixth Man of the Year award. He’s an excellent scorer, adept at getting his points in isolation, as a spot-up shooter, or coming off screens, and he was the best on the team at attacking on pick-and-rolls. He’s not a good defender overall, especially in isolation, but he was adequate on pick-and-rolls and closing out on shooters.
Look ahead: Crawford likely will draw a lot of trade interest due to his expiring contract and scoring prowess, but those are the same things that make him valuable to the Hawks.
Marvin Williams, 6-9, F
Contract: $6.7 million in 2010-11, with two years and $15.8 million and a $7.5 million player option in 2013-14 after that
Look back: The Hawks re-signed Williams last summer and he had a disappointing season. He was inconsistent offensively, especially in his primary role as a spot-up shooter. Defensively, opponents had success isolating Williams and bulling past him to the basket and also taking advantage of his weak closeouts. Williams had long stretches with little production.
Look ahead: Williams is an unselfish player, but he was too passive in a perimeter-oriented offense where he’s no better than the fourth scoring option. The Hawks hope getting Williams more involved in offensive sets can help him reach his considerable potential. He’ll be only 24-years old next season, so if he can make a major improvement he’ll be an asset to the Hawks either as a quality small forward or a trade chip.
Mike Bibby, 6-2, G
Contract: $5.6 million in 2010-11, $6.2 million in 2011-12
Look back: Bibby wasn’t really a traditional point guard for the Hawks, instead leaving most of the ball handing duties to Johnson. Bibby excelled both as a spot-up shooter and with catch-and-shoots off screens and is a floor leader. But he was a defensive liability, especially against pick-and-rolls, forcing the Hawks to switch on screens. Bibby’s defensive positioning and awareness remain high but his quickness has declined.
Look ahead: The Hawks appear ready to give Jeff Teague a chance to supplant Bibby as the starter. That would make Bibby an expensive backup, but his contract might make it difficult to trade him next season.
Zaza Pachulia, 6-11, C
Contract: $4.25 million in 2010-11, two years and $13 million after that
Look back: Pachulia was the primary backup center and, other than a mid-season lull, was mostly adequate in that role. His post defense was so-so but he was good at challenging opponents when they stepped out to shoot. Pachulia’s offensive production on pick-and-rolls was surprisingly high and he was good at drawing fouls.
Look ahead: Pachulia finished the season strong. Still, his relatively modest salary for an effective backup center and the Hawks’ potential desire for a starting-caliber center means he could be a trade candidate.
Mo Evans, 6-5, G/F
Contract: $2.5 million player option for 2010-11
Look back: The first wing player off the bench occasionally grumbled about playing time but eventually found a consistent role as the first wing off the bench. Touted for his defense, Evans was good in isolation but struggled to defend guards on pick-and-rolls and forwards on post-ups. He had good production when getting shots as a cutter but made just 30 percent of his spot-up jump shots.
Look ahead: Evans said he likes it with the Hawks but hasn’t decided if he will exercise his option.
Jeff Teague, 6-2, G
Contract: $1.47 million in 2010-11, with two additional team option years
Look back: The No. 19 overall draft pick never found consistent minutes in Mike Woodson’s rotation. Teague proved to be a very good defender in isolation due to his quickness but struggled at times with team defensive concepts. He was an excellent scorer in transition but the rest of his game is a work in progress.
Look ahead: Teague will play for the team’s summer league entry in Las Vegas with the hope he can be ready to be the starter in 2010-11.
Joe Smith, 6-10, F
Contract: Unrestricted free agent
Look back: Smith was brought in for his size and playoffs experience but he was an afterthought by the time the postseason arrived. He wasn’t consistent when he did get minutes.
Look ahead: Smith, who played in his 1000th game this season, said his body feels good and he’d like to play a couple more seasons. He said he would welcome a return to the Hawks.
Jason Collins, 7-0, C
Contract: Unrestricted free agent
Look back: Acquired to deal with either Shaquille O’Neal and Dwight Howard in the playoffs, Collins drew Howard in the Eastern Conference semifinals. The results weren’t impressive.
Look ahead: He’ll be 32-years old next season and has declining mobility so it’s not certain the Hawks will want him back
Randolph Morris, 6-11, C
Contract: Unrestricted free agent
Look back: Morris, a Landmark Christian product, spent the most time on the inactive list for the Hawks.
Look ahead: Still only 24-years old but with just 74 games and 437 minutes over four seasons he’ll likely be searching for a job.
Mario West, 6-5, G
Contract: Restricted free agent
Look back: Released during training camp, then signed to consecutive 10-day contracts in January before sticking for the rest of the season. Played spot minutes as a perimeter defender.
Look ahead: The Hawks must extend a qualifying offer to retain right of first refusal.
Others:
Josh Childress, 6-8, F
Contract: Restricted free agent; he has a contract option with Greek team Olympiakos for 2010-11
Look back: Childress played four seasons for the Hawks but in 2008 decided to accept a three-year, $20 million contract with Olympiakos of the Euroleague. He was the team’s second-leading scorer this season.
Look ahead: Childress has until July 15 to decide if he will play for Olympiakos next season or return to the NBA. The Hawks plan to extend a one-year, $4.8 million qualifying offer to Childress. They would then maintain his NBA rights and also have the right to match any free-agent offer sheets he signs. The Hawks could also use Childress in a sign-and-trade transaction.
MC
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154 comments Add your comment
Gilley
May 13th, 2010
7:02 pm
First
Gilley
May 13th, 2010
7:03 pm
I think a lot of the bench players simply didn’t get the chance to shine. Either they didn’t bring it in practice or Mike Woodson still didn’t trust his bench.
MannyT
May 13th, 2010
7:20 pm
When you have no cap space, you gotta give something to get something. Sund has work to do. If Mo Evans opts out that’s 2 guys that get time that could walk away w/o any compensation for the Hawks. If Joe leaves, Sund will have his hands full getting the roster back to this season’s level.
There is a trade in the works at some point this summer. Count on it.
BWLFW
mountain_jim
May 13th, 2010
7:26 pm
Nice summary MC – good read.
LEA
May 13th, 2010
7:38 pm
I still don’t understand why people think Al Horford is untouchable, his offensive game is not that v. and he was treated like a high school player by Dwight Howard in the playoffs. H. He has A LOT of things to work on just like everyone else does.
O'Brien
May 13th, 2010
8:02 pm
We better hope bibby and Marvin pick it up next season. Because if they don’t, we are stuck with them. Thanks rick.
I would like to see JJ back, but not for a 6 year Max deal, mainly because the ASG don’t have the resources to give him a Max deal while drastically improve the team.
But also because I don’t think he is worth a 6 year Max deal.
Big Ray
May 13th, 2010
8:08 pm
I believe MannyT …..
dstdeelite
May 13th, 2010
8:16 pm
LEA…I’d have to agree that at this juncture, Al is untouchable. He has too much upside to trade. He’s a hard worker with the heart of a champion. They’d be a fool to get rid of Al at this point.
LEA
May 13th, 2010
8:37 pm
not really, Al was not a offensive force at florida, and he won’t be one for the hawks. I mean he was dominated by Kurt Thomas the ENTIRE bucks series. His defense is also mediocore. Only reason to keep him now is because his contract is so cheap….
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
8:47 pm
Can’t argue with anything in this article.
MC, can you please follow this up with a look at the Hawks’ cap situation and what options are realistic from both a cap standpoint and an on-the-floor standpoint, so we don’t continue to see the same impossible free agent or trade scenarios posted on this blog all summer?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
8:51 pm
People don’t say Horford is untouchable because he is a complete player (which like you said he’s not). They say that because he is a vocal team leader and All-Star caliber defensive player who plays smart and is a good bet to improve considerably from his already high level, especially on offense. Obviously if the Magic offered Dwight Howard for him or something the Hawks would accept, but realistically there is no move the Hawks can make involving Horford that would net them a better player than him.
ryan
May 13th, 2010
8:53 pm
I think Joe Johnson will stay because he can the max deal but i do the Josh Smith will be traded this summer.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
8:58 pm
From the previous blog…
“Cleveland and Chicago got their hometown players in James and Rose. Why couldn’t we get Dwight.”
Believe me, you are not the only one who feels this way. I still hate Terry Stotts for winning a bunch of meaningless games at the end of the 2003-2004 season, and I still hate Stern for not rigging that lottery in the Hawks’ favor. Let’s face it, for all the other accusations of game fixing that exist surrounding the NBA, if there is one that is actually somewhat believable it’s fixing the lottery.
Jody
May 13th, 2010
9:05 pm
Jeff Van Gundy made an interesting statement during tonights game. When asked about who would win between Phoenix and the Lakers, he said the Lakers because, point-blank, “size matters”. The last three seasons, the Hawks have been eliminated by teams who are bigger and have dominated them in the middle. The Hawks can talk about all these other problems if they’d like, but if they’re going to have a chance to “compete with the best teams” as Rick Sund said, they’ve got to get bigger.
northcyde
May 13th, 2010
9:12 pm
Come on now Najeh. No player? That’s a bold statement to make. Maybe no player in his age group.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
9:18 pm
“Come on now Najeh. No player? That’s a bold statement to make. Maybe no player in his age group.”
I’m talking about players that the Hawks can realistically acquire, not players in general. So obviously Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, etc. are not included even though they are better players than Horford. At Horford’s salary level, who can you name that the Hawks would realistically receive in return in a trade that would make the Hawks better?
northcyde
May 13th, 2010
9:19 pm
No doubt Jody.
When you talk about Smith and Horford, they tend to struggle on both ends vs big defensive frontlines. So it’s either “get bigger” by acquiring bigger players . . . or Smoove, Horford, and Marvin are going to have to start “playing bigger” than what they are.
northcyde
May 13th, 2010
9:23 pm
OK.
At his salary . . . maybe only Marc Gasol, who has a better post up game than Horford, but isn’t quite as good defensively. Both of them are close though.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
9:28 pm
“The Hawks can talk about all these other problems if they’d like, but if they’re going to have a chance to “compete with the best teams” as Rick Sund said, they’ve got to get bigger.”
The Cavs are significantly bigger than the Celtics (Cavs have 2 or 3 7-footers depending on Varejao’s actual height, Celtics have zero or one depending on KG’s actual height, and the Cavs’ 7-footers are all as big as or bigger than KG), and they are on the verge of getting eliminated. Not saying size isn’t important, but unselfish team play and toughness will always beat size, especially size without mobility.
Yes, size is an important reason the Hawks lost to the Magic, but lack of effort, lack of an offensive system, lack of ball movement, slow closeouts on perimeter shooters, and lack of quality depth played a bigger role in my opinion.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
9:38 pm
“So it’s either “get bigger” by acquiring bigger players . . . or Smoove, Horford, and Marvin are going to have to start “playing bigger” than what they are.”
Acquiring bigger players who can actually play is easier said than done. The Lakers lucked into Andrew Bynum in the lottery the one year they missed the playoffs, which is really the only reason they have a size advantage, and there’s no way a 7-foot true center with Bynum’s skills slips to #10 in the draft now with the age limit in place and every player having to prove they can play at the college level. Duncan and Howard also play for the teams that lucked into the #1 overall pick and drafted them, and KG was acquired in a lopsided trade from a team that proved incapable of building around him.
You’re not going to acquire a franchise-caliber big man in free agency, because no team is going to let a franchise-caliber big man become a free agent. You’re not going to acquire him in the draft unless you draft in the top 3, which the Hawks are not likely to do in the foreseeable future. You’re not going to acquire him in a trade unless some incompetent GM decides to gift wrap him the way McHale did Garnett.
This is why I keep saying the Hawks should try to acquire someone who can come off the bench, play 25-30 minutes a game, guard Dwight Howard one-on-one, and allow Horford to move to PF for stretches at a time. This player doesn’t have to be a 15-point scorer or even a double-digit scorer; they just have to be able to box out, get rebounds, play tough defense, commit hard fouls if necessary, and not turn the ball over. I always mention Kendrick Perkins’ name when I bring this up, because he’s the ideal player for this role, but it’s up to Rick Sund to find a player like that who is actually available.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
10:03 pm
Also from the previous blog…
“We send:
*Josh (valuable / I don’t care what you say!)
*Marv (more valuable than you think)
*Teaguer (Wdsn diminished value)
*Zaza (a Big is a Big)
We get from Chicago:
*Joakim Noah [5]
*kirk Hinrich [1] with exp.
*Luol Deng [cushion if Joe leaves]”
I don’t think this is a realistic trade, because the Bulls value Noah alone more than Smoove, and there’s no way they part with Deng as well just to receive a couple of bad contracts in return. But I bring this up because Noah is an example of a guy for whom I wouldn’t mind trading Smoove. A Horford-Noah front line would be nearly as athletic and just as effective defensively as Smoove-Horford, and Noah can guard “true centers” (he more than held his own against the Cavs’ formidable big men) and allow Horford to play power forward full time. In other words, this wouldn’t be like a Josh-for-Bosh trade where you don’t solve the Horford-at-center problem and you just end up trading defense for offense. Doing this would also allow the Hawks to broaden their search when looking for quality backup big men, since they wouldn’t necessarily have to target a true center who can guard Howard.
The main concern with making such a swap is trying to figure out who is going to score in the post, but I think the improvement Horford would show offensively as a full-time PF would make up for the ball movement and decent post scoring Smoove currently provides.
Of course, this is all speculation, because I don’t think the Bulls trade Noah for anyone unless they get LeBron or Wade in return.
sleepy
May 13th, 2010
10:07 pm
Najeh the Celts have two 7 fters in Perkins and KG they are both huge and can play great post and help defense
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
10:10 pm
Perkins is 6′10″, the same height as Horford. He just weighs 30 pounds more. KG is alternately listed at 6′11″ or 7 feet, so I don’t really know which one to believe.
I did leave out Rasheed Wallace, who is 7 feet, but since he hangs out on the perimeter all the time I’m not sure it makes a huge difference.
pinoy hawk
May 13th, 2010
10:12 pm
Anyone: As an unrestricted FA, the hawks cannot force JJ to a S&T? also, does this mean if another team offers him a contract the hawks cannot match it? so in the end the hawks may end up losing JJ for nothing? is my understanding correct? i’m confused…
O'Brien
May 13th, 2010
10:25 pm
Najeh,
Who is available that the hawks could get to bring off the bench to play Howard one on one though? Haywood maybe?
Watching the cavs-celtics, I love varajao’s game. But for $10 mil a year? I don’t know…
You know what’s interesting? Shelden Williams could win a championship this season…
northcyde
May 13th, 2010
10:28 pm
Oh Najeh I agree. Which is why if the Horford – Smoove frontline is to stay together, one or both of them are going to have to start playing bigger. Otherwise, we’re going to have to trade one of them, to see if we can get a quality big.
Big not only means “height”, it can also mean “bulk”. Even though he’s only 6 – 7, Dejuan Blair is a quality big, because he knows how to use his bulk and strength to battle bigger guys.
But as far as centers go, we definitely need to find one that is an upgrade over Zaza at least. And if all he can do is rebound and defend, I’ll take that.
nick s
May 13th, 2010
10:36 pm
Sleepy,
What in the world are you smoking perkins is a legit 6′8″ at best!!!!
northcyde
May 13th, 2010
10:36 pm
Pinoy . . that is correct. JJ is a unrestricted FA, which means the Hawks can’t simply match a contract offer. And yes, we can lose him for nothing.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
10:38 pm
This game is a much bigger indictment of LeBron James to me than the previous blowout. I don’t see any leadership, any killer instinct, any take-over-the-game mentality from LeBron at all, and it’s an elimination game.
Amazing that the team the Hawks swept in the regular season is going to be in the conference finals.
O'Brien
May 13th, 2010
10:40 pm
Celtics about to put lebron aand cavs out of their misery. I think Mike brown gets fired.
Hawks need size, But they also need leadership and accountability.
northcyde
May 13th, 2010
10:41 pm
Cleveland in SERIOUS trouble.
If Chicago gets Lebron . . . . damn.
Cavs don’t have anybody else on the roster who can create their own offense other than Lebron and sometimes Jamison. That’s a team that could use a PG.
nick s
May 13th, 2010
10:41 pm
How come everyone isn’t crucifying LeBron for lackluster play but love to crap all over Joe Johnson……things that make you say hmmmm!!!!!
nick s
May 13th, 2010
10:44 pm
Where is Jon Barry and Charles Barkley now with all the pessimism…..the Cav’s look lost…..and the Hawks could beat the Celtics in there sleep!!!!!! So does that mean the hawks are just as good as the Cav’s now????? Things that make you say hmmmmm!!!!
northcyde
May 13th, 2010
10:47 pm
I don’t know Najeh. Hard to knock Lebron’s effort tonight. This game just proves that the guys around him aren’t big time. hems going to have 20+ pts – 20+ rebs – and 10+ asst
Mel
May 13th, 2010
10:48 pm
Guess Joe isnt the ONLY looking bad this post season!
Mel
May 13th, 2010
10:49 pm
Cavs role players lookin just as SHlTTY as last year
northcyde
May 13th, 2010
10:50 pm
hems = he’s
Mel
May 13th, 2010
10:50 pm
LeBron may be the Wilt of our generation
Jody
May 13th, 2010
10:51 pm
Perkins is both taller and bigger than Al Horford. You can clearly see that when they were on the court together. Also, the Celtics have plenty of big people (both K.G. and Wallace are 7 ft.) and big baby and perkins are big guys.
northcyde,
I agree with you. However, the problem I see is that the Hawks frontline, in three consecutive playoff series, have shown that they cannot play big enough to offset their size disadvantage and that’s killed the Hawks everytime. Don’t get me wrong, I love both Al and Smoove. But, looking at it objectively, I think the Hawks need to get bigger.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
10:51 pm
“Who is available that the hawks could get to bring off the bench to play Howard one on one though? Haywood maybe? ”
Haywood is a possibility. Kurt Thomas, depending on what he has left, is a possibility. Emeka Okafor, if money and cap room is not an object, is a possibility, although his contract is absolutely horrendous. Tyson Chandler and Nazr Mohammed, both with expiring contracts, are possibilities (I’d prefer Chandler). Drafting Daniel Orton out of Kentucky (I haven’t seen him play, but his scouting report and what little Youtube there is of him makes it sound like the right coach could turn him into the next Perkins) is a possibility, although presumably someone like him would take a couple of years to become a consistent enough player to fill such an important role. I don’t know how effective any of these scenarios would be, and like I said above the Hawks had much bigger problems against Orlando than guarding Howard, but any of those players would be an improvement over the current situation either now or in the future.
Mel
May 13th, 2010
10:52 pm
ITs OVER
cp
May 13th, 2010
10:53 pm
How much longer are people going to wait on this so called potential Marvin has?. I know some guys take longer than others but 5 years in the league and 4 years as a starter and he is still average as hell. What you see is pretty much what you’re going to get with Marvin. Put him in a package deal….
MC could you do a mini interview with Teague and see what he has planned as far as what he is going to work on and how he plans on getting better this summer? If he is going to take over next year I would love to know what he will be doing to prepare. He needs to be in that gym shooting jumpers non stop and working on that floater.
nick s
May 13th, 2010
10:54 pm
Bottom Line to me is if Joe Johnson had hit 50% all his shots against Orlando everyone wouldn’t be panicking right now. And as far as Horford goes, LEA, you are a either a fool or misinformed because this dude is “THE” heart and soul of this team. Kurt the flopper Thomas was not manhandling him on defense and could not stay in front of him on offense. Unfortunately, I say trade the most dynamic player we have, Smoove, and try and get a true center in here to defend our new arch nemesis D. Howard. Try and get JJ to stay and look for some affordable bench players to help out.
Mel
May 13th, 2010
10:54 pm
he shakes hands this year
Jody
May 13th, 2010
10:54 pm
And in the playoffs, the Celtics size pays big dividends as they oust the Cavs.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
10:54 pm
“I don’t know Najeh. Hard to knock Lebron’s effort tonight.”
I don’t knock his effort. I’m knocking his decision making and killer instinct, which were both nonexistent when it mattered most in this game, regardless of his stats. I agree, his role players sucked too, but the entire team was just in total panic mode that entire 4th quarter when the game was still well within reach. That shows a lack of on-court leadership to me.
cp
May 13th, 2010
10:55 pm
I guess the Cavs dont have anything to dance and laugh about on the sideline tonight. They were clowning all year even if they were losing. Guys who didn’t even play were clowning too. Ain’t shid funny tonight though.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
10:56 pm
Nobody on the Celtics is as big as Shaq or Z, Varejao is the same size as Garnett, and Hickson is taller than Glen Davis. I don’t know where you are getting this so-called size advantage for the Celtics from.
Jody
May 13th, 2010
10:57 pm
Not saying the Celtics have a size advantage per say, but they are big enough to compete.
nick s
May 13th, 2010
10:58 pm
thank you najeh what size are these people looking at!
nick s
May 13th, 2010
10:59 pm
perkins wishes he could guard Al on the block he get ate alive everytime.
Jody
May 13th, 2010
10:59 pm
By the way, the matchup between Jamison and Garnett in the post is one of the main reasons the Cavs are going home.
Jody
May 13th, 2010
11:00 pm
Regular season yes. Playoffs are a different story.
Mel
May 13th, 2010
11:06 pm
Mel
May 13th, 2010
11:07 pm
[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/20j0lsk.jpg[/IMG]
hawkfan
May 13th, 2010
11:08 pm
wow this Cavs team is almost like the Hawks this post season, look good during the regular season then come playoff time a totally different team, both teams running isos, Lebron and Joe Johnson both free agents this summer, both quitting at the end, both franchise’s fans want their head coach fired, both haven’t won a NBA championship in their respective cities of now, only thing going for us is that Joe Johnson did not have as much pressure as Lebron and ppl in Atlanta still would move on without him
nick s
May 13th, 2010
11:09 pm
The hawks front line can handle theirs for the most part with some exceptions, but the problem lies in our defensive scheme. When they have to constantly help out because the opposing team’s PG is running through the paint butt naked how can you expect them to play “BIG”. If they are chasing the PG around being “BIG” is not ideal. When the PG comes to them they take advantage with the block or altered shot. We need a center and and some perimeter defenders.
What happened to Marvin this year? He was at least an above average defender last year but this year he was slow footed and show little catch up speed and technique. after looking at this years playoffs how much would Tony Allen cost. We need a perimeter defender with some grit.
Mel
May 13th, 2010
11:10 pm
im a New yorker, I pray he comes to the Knicks LeBron not Joe… I want Joe in ATL..
northcyde
May 13th, 2010
11:10 pm
So the Cavs will hire Woody, and try to coax JJ to join him in Cleveland . . .
northcyde
May 13th, 2010
11:16 pm
I typed part of this on Hawksquawk the other day, when Hubie Brown was talking about analyzing what your players have done vs the Top 6 teams in the league, in order to come up with an offensive gameplan for the playoffs.
Here is what our top 4 players did against those top 6 teams ( CLE, ORL, LAL, DAL, DEN, PHX )
Joe Johnson
CLE . . 21 pts – 6 rebs – 3.5 asst – 46% FG
ORL . . 16 pts – 6 rebs – 5 asst – 38% FG
LAL . . 26 pts – 6 rebs – 6 asst – 50% FG
DAL . . 29 pts – 6 rebs – 6.5 asst – 53% FG
DEN . . 19 pts – 6 rebs – 7 asst – 45% FG
PHX . . 19 pts- 7.5 rebs – 4 asst – 42% FG
((( Orlando definitely had JJ’s number, I think, because the presence of Howard takes away his favorite shot . . . the floater )))
Josh Smith
CLE . .15 pts – 7 rebs – 4 asst – 50% FG
ORL . . 14 pts – 8 rebs – 3 asst – 40% FG
LAL . . 9.5 pts – 7 rebs – 6.5 asst – 41% FG
DAL . . 15 pts – 8.5 rebs – 5 asst – 46% FG
DEN . . 19.5 pts – 9 rebs – 4.5 asst – 62% FG
PHX . . 20 pts – 10 rebs – 2 asst – 50% FG
(((( the extremely low shooting % against Orlando and the Lakers doesn’t surprise me one bit. Big and athletic frontlines always give him trouble )))
Al Horford
CLE . .11 pts – 8 rebs – 3 asst – 43% FG
ORL . . 8 pts – 7 rebs – 1 asst – 53% FG
LAL . . 8 pts – 7 rebs – 1 asst – 50% FG
DAL . . 12 pts – 7 rebs – 2.5 asst – 35% FG
DEN . . 14.5 pts – 11.5 rebs – 3 asst – 79% FG
PHX . . 17 pts – 9 rebs – 0.5 asst – 61% FG
(((( As with Josh Smith, no surprise that his numbers are way down against the teams with big centers – Shaq, Howard, Bynum )))
Jamal Crawford
CLE . . 18 pts – 4 rebs – 2 asst – 40% FG
ORL . . 12.5 pts – 2.5 rebs – 2 asst – 31% FG
LAL . . 15.5 pts – 2.5 rebs – 1.5 asst – 39% FG
DAL . . 12 pts – 2.5 rebs – 2.5 asst – 29% FG
DEN . . 24.5 pts – 3.5 rebs – 3 asst – 57% FG
PHX . . 16 pts – 1.5 rebs – 2.5 asst – 38% FG
((( For all of you who are Jamal Crawford supporters . . look at his FG% against those top teams. If we lose JJ, this is a huge RED FLAG for all of those who think he can step up in the absence of JJ
*************
So when people talk about we need to get bigger, I think this is kind of what they’re talking about. It’s pretty much a known fact that both Horford and Smoove tend to struggle against the bigger frontlines.
N-Trigue
May 13th, 2010
11:26 pm
To trade Josh would just be stupid!!! Please wake up that will not happen under a new coach Josh will be just fine!if josh was gone are defense would be in serious trouble!!! Look for hawks to try and ship either Marvin, Childress or Maurice and draft picks to get better. Joe will be back unless he decides to sign elsewhere and Josh is to valuable with homegrown roots for a star lacked organization to trade away after they messed up and traded Nique away and are still paying for that dumb move!
pinoy hawk
May 13th, 2010
11:36 pm
Mr. northcyde: on the other hand, if JJ goes this means more scoring opportunities for JC, JT, Smoove and Al. Even bibby and marvin can benefit if they step up their game.
I’m more worried on the defensive side. Who’ll guard the other team’s best pg/sg or even sf? Bibby and JC cannot guard ANYONE. Evans and Marvin are inconsistent and JT has limited mins.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 13th, 2010
11:40 pm
Whether Joe stays or goes and whether the Hawks keep or trade Smoove, this team is not going to get better offensively against good teams without more ball movement, and that means either putting the ball in the hands of Jeff Teague or bringing in a point guard via trade that will get the ball moving. All of those field goal percentages against top teams, bottom teams, and whoever else will only go up with more ball movement in this offense.
ant banks
May 13th, 2010
11:41 pm
NEXT YEAR could really be the hawks year. orlando, cleveland, boston are so over the cap that they are goin’ to have to drop some people.
sund needs to be creative and get some good pieces in here. we may get to ecf next year., dependin’ on what is done durin’ the summa
A Sate of FLUX!!
May 13th, 2010
11:45 pm
Atleast Lebron shook hands this time although he took that jersey off fast as hell. Man the NBA is going to look strange next year.Guys are gonna be moving all over the Place. There is NO REASON the HAWKS cant come out this summer with a serious TEAM that could go all the way. I LOVE Doc Rivers as a player even more so as a Coach. That the kinda coach you need. A true PG and a TRUE Center Sharpshooter and we are good.
Plenty of chips to make it happen Captain.. Marvin Josh Bibby Zsa Zsa draft pick. Sund goes on the hot seat if he cant build in this STATE OF FLUX!!!
TRADE HORFORD
May 13th, 2010
11:54 pm
TRADE HORFORD NOW!
TRADE HORFORD
May 13th, 2010
11:55 pm
GET A REAL CENTER AND GET RID OF THIS DEFENSELESS BUM
Section 303
May 13th, 2010
11:56 pm
I just have a bad feeling going into this offseason. The Hawks might really suck next year.
I hate reading that they have no flexibility to sign a big free agent (not that one would ever come here) if Joe Johnson does not resign. Can someone explain that to me? Just thinking that if Joe leaves, wouldn’t that clear out a ton of room to sign someone else? Guess the best to hope for is a sign-and-trade involving Joe and a team stupid enough to take him.
I don’t really care if Mo Evans leaves. In fact, I kind of hope he does. That guy just got worse as the year went on. Looks like anyone else of relevence is under contract.
Trade Josh? I think that might be a good move. Trade Jamal? I don’t think so. He comes off the books next year, anyways. Plus, we will need his scoring.
How about Ray Allen? How about Chuck Hayes? Two tough vets…one helps with shooting, the other with physical play.
Section 303
May 13th, 2010
11:58 pm
TRADE HORFORD, I’m just going to assume that you are tyring to be funny and failing miserably. Why don’t you go to bed and let the adults talk?
Big Ray
May 14th, 2010
12:08 am
How come everyone isn’t crucifying LeBron for lackluster play but love to crap all over Joe Johnson……things that make you say hmmmm!!!!!
Probably because Joe plays (played..) for the Hawks, and Lebron plays for the Cavs, meaning that Hawks fans have better things to do than watch everything Lebron does.
Having said that, this is why I have not, and never will consider Lebron to be better than Kobe Bryant until Kobe either…
A) Finally begins to truly slow down
or
B) Lebron finally becomes that true assassin.
Kobe is that guy. STILL. Lebron still ain’t that guy.
And Mike Brown might be in more trouble than Mike Woodson. You lose with that roster?
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
12:09 am
Najeh:
*[This was an excerpt from my post on the previous blog]
There was a blurb later in the post where I stated
‘Deng’ could be flipped in a trade as well.
Plus I never mentioned other pos. [FA] signings or trades
which would balance the team & stengthen bench.
*e,g., Kyle Lowry/pg to compete @ the pos.+ add heart/toughness
We send:
*Josh (valuable / I don’t care what you say!)
*Marv (more valuable than you think)
*Teaguer (Wdsn diminished value)
*Zaza (a Big is a Big)
We get from Chicago:
*Joakim Noah [5]
*kirk Hinrich [1] with exp.
*Luol Deng [cushion if Joe leaves]”
**However, I did say bash away!
Great.
nc surely you were’t suggesting M.Gasol is = to or
as valuable as Big Al.
Big Ray
May 14th, 2010
12:10 am
I’m a Josh Smith fan, but if the Bulls were willing to take Josh for him, I’d give Rick Sund a personal police escort there, myself.
Section 303 ,
That’s our old buddy Truth Serum, most likely. Nobody hates Horford more than he does. Not even Clyde (Mr. “Fire Woody”).
Big Ray
May 14th, 2010
12:13 am
Grandad ,
I’d go for that trade.
As for the Marc Gasol/ Al Horford thing…..their stats make them alot alike. If one were determined to get a taller and heavier guy at center, come hell or high water, that’s the deal to make. Both are young, both are good rebounders. Northcyde pretty much covered their differences/similarities.
I would not do this as a straight up trade. It would have to be something like Horford/Marvin for Gasol/Gay. Even then, it would leave a bad taste in my mouth. And we’d still have to be thinking about Smith.
If we lose Joe, I see a massive or at least very significant trade coming from Sund.
darrell starks
May 14th, 2010
12:16 am
GRANDAD what a horrible trade you make that trade hawks win 25 games at best, HOW DO JOAKIM, KIRK, LUO, MAKE YOU BETTER ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
May 14th, 2010
12:22 am
If you trade josh you better get a star caliber player otherwise josh stay, josh has 2 much value right now to get just okay players.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Big Ray
May 14th, 2010
12:24 am
Oh brother….
darrell starks
May 14th, 2010
12:26 am
Dam i wish arthur blanks was the owner pick up lebron right now in a jet and wine him down the next day he’s in a hawks uniform.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
12:46 am
darrell starks: *[this was my entire post]
Trade Proposal: [from last blog]
[works on NBA trade machine]
We send:
*Josh (valuable / I don’t care what you say!)
*Marv (more valuable than you think)
*Teaguer (Wdsn diminished value)
*Zaza (a Big is a Big)
We get from Chicago:
*Joakim Noah [5]
*kirk Hinrich [1] with exp.
*Luol Deng [cushion if Joe leaves]
This trade is NO more ignorant than others I’ve seen
on this board in the last couple of days.
We get a [1] and a [5] needed plus a *[3]:
*that can be flipped in a trade.
Chi. gets a *Big, + Josh + Marv / age & palatable contract.
**imagine Josh & Rose on the break!***
Plus a young back-up for Rose or trade option.[Teague]
Also shed Hinrich’s contract.
****Contingent on Chicago being in play for LbJ.
or (maybe not)
*****RUMORS*****swirling
**[from most recent post]**
Plus I never mentioned other pos. [FA] signings or trades
which would balance the team & stengthen bench.
*e,g., Kyle Lowry/pg to compete @ the pos.+ add heart/toughness
***Draft – Brian Zoubek (1st round)***
reasons listed – many moons ago!
You asked / Now I will try to answer / logically.
Here goes:
****(one)premis Joe stays:
(1) Hinrich/Lowry
(2) Jamal
(3) Joe
(4) Al
(5) J.Noah
(6)man mid level ex. [FA]
+ Deng = trade chip
+ Childress/either plays or is traded
+ Zoubek
+ Joe Smith
*****Joe leaves:
(1) same
(2) same
(3) Deng or Childress or mid level ex.[FA]
(4) same
(5) same
(6) man = lower lev. ex. [FA] or trade
rest of bench same.
darrell starks
May 14th, 2010
12:53 am
Big brother ray i have always like rudy gay, that trade RUDY, GASOL, for HORFORD, and MARVIN would be a steal for the hawks.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
May 14th, 2010
1:05 am
GRANDAD HINRICH AND JAMAL starting at the 1 and 2 and JOE at the three is not good, hinrich is not the point guard that will make this team better, and jamal starting 82games at the 2 is not good, he would get kill by bigger guards at the 2 and joe is better suited at the 2 than the 3.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
1:11 am
A couple of comments.
Joakim Noah:
11 pts.
11 rebs.
1.5 blks.
2 assts.
runs like a dear.
plays hard & smart.
not afraid of LbJ.
plays with passion
great former teammate with Al/chemistry = champions
whats not to like?
The Celts proved tonite a few things about:
STAR v TEAM with:
exp.
passion
will
heart
desire
focus
goals
team
together
leadership
pride
singlemindedness
purpose
Five of the same beats one ace.
(had to bend that last ‘un a little dab)
darrell starks
May 14th, 2010
1:20 am
GRANDAD i like the trade scenario that big brother ray suggested.
HORFORD, MARVIN, for RUDY AND GASOL BUT I WOULD PERFER JOSH over HORFORD but that trade your working with something.
and you sign and trade chill and teague and may be the 24# for devin harris and resign joe.
STARTER DEVIN, JOE, RUDY, JOSH, MARC GASOL.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
May 14th, 2010
1:22 am
I’d rather have Noah at $10-11 million per year (which is more or less what he will get once his rookie contract is up) than Bosh at a max contract. No question.
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
1:28 am
darrell starks:
You’re probably right.
Mine did have logic.
The point pos. Lowry would compete / in my world.
Mine got us a center. Mine had more logic than 95%
of the proposals I’ve seen on here lately.
Mine was not perfect but neither were this yrs. Hawks.
KH – could swing between [1] & [2].
Noah & Lowry both play their ass off.
*ass ain’t a cuss word.
Al + or minus anybody for Gasol & Gay.
No…no…no…no…no…no…no…no…!
Did we ‘ ‘NOT’ ‘ learn tonite. [Celtics]
Basketball: “is about people”
All those qualities I listed above.
You don’t trade those:
Those qualities = Al Horford!
MsDee
May 14th, 2010
1:32 am
HANDS DOWN,,,AL HORFORD is a keeper!!He is the 1 the Hawks should build around and I sure hope our next coach will realize that!!
MsDee
May 14th, 2010
1:33 am
As a PF of course..we NEED a true center in here plus a great PG in someone like Devin Harris with Teague our back-up for real this time!!
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
1:43 am
In my humble opinion, Marc Gasol is a nice piece
on a team that has other winning parts. However,
he is not a championship [5]. He is not his brother.
He would not be an up-grade over Al @ the[5] pos.
You could possibly sacrifice Josh for a difference maker.
MG is not a dif. maker.
I would not trade Josh for MG.
I would not trade Josh & Marv for MG & Rudy.
One has to see more than the stats.
Josh has some intangiles that have been overshadowed
by a nat. televised poor display.
Four games should not overcome the good will
he built up over the entirety of this ‘whole’ season.
You do not trade Al unless you get DH.
you do not trade Josh unless as stated above;
you get a dif. maker + a need.
Also Rudy is not the vast up-grade over Marv
which everyone seems to think.
Once again Wdsn has de-valued the product.
I’m tired.
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
1:45 am
*intangibles*
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
1:49 am
I read today:
Noah [around the league] is more highly
thought of / or ranked / than Lopez [NJ].
As a franchise center.
That surprised me.
darrell starks
May 14th, 2010
1:57 am
GRANDAD you wouldn’t trade sorry marvin who now is worth only a bag of peanut and horford for and 23 year up and coming star in rudy and 7′1 marc gasol who is a true center wow!!!!!!!!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Woodys No Goody
May 14th, 2010
2:01 am
Wow! That was not the LeBron I saw play against the Hawks this year. Might wanna check his bank account next month because something seems really fishy how “bad” he played. Good luck with that Knicks.
FIRE WOODY!!
bigdave
May 14th, 2010
2:08 am
“Perkins is 6′10″, the same height as Horford. ”
thats being a bit generous.. he’s closer to Josh than Perk…
———-
the queen played like someone had money on his head or someone close to him… 9 turns. his performance this whole series left a lot to be desired..
Najeh Davenpoop
May 14th, 2010
2:20 am
Blog ate my post, but here’s a trade possibility I thought of… may be a little far-fetched, but I’ll let y’all decide how possible and how beneficial it may be. ESPN’s trade machine doesn’t allow players with expiring deals next year to be traded right now for some reason, but I don’t think that’s a limitation in July when trading season begins; either way, I can’t check on the trade machine whether this works, but just by adding salaries in my head I think it does. I’m not going to go into the details I wrote in the eaten post, but you can see the respective teams’ salary outlays here and .
Hawks get: Darren Collison, Emeka Okafor, Peja Stojakovic
Hornets get: Jamal Crawford, Marvin Williams, Mike Bibby, Zaza Pachulia
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
2:55 am
darrell starks:
Sorry my good friend, but I could not in good
conscience make that trade.
The key is I would not include Al or Josh
for either Rudy or Gasol straight up.
That kills the trade right there for me.
Plus RG can be had as a [FA].
we can get a Big w/o giving up Al.
Maybe Josh but not Al.
Must be a Dif. Maker.
just because someone is 7 ft.
doesn’t make him necessarily valuable.
A. Bargnani would be a better fit if you
just wanted a 7 ftr. He can stretch the floor.
About Marv…just because you percieve him to be
awful don’t let that cause you to lessen your
return in expected trade value for Al.
Kinda like you trade 1+4=5 so we will take back 2+3=5.
You end up with the same total:
but you gave up the better player.
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
2:56 am
*perceive – dadgummit !
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
2:59 am
bigdave – Al & Perkins both 6-10, dif. is Perk goes 280+.
RicoCarty
May 14th, 2010
7:53 am
where is ereybody.
O'Brien
May 14th, 2010
7:59 am
Najeh,
I dont like Okafor’s contract (about 4 years, $42 mil).
ESPN is too close to the NBA to have their analysts slamming LeBron. I think if he was on TNT it would have been a different story.
Dude had 9 TOs, and except for the two 3s he made in the fourth, he did not stand out to me (although its hard to stand out when nobody besides Mo Williams stepped up). Shaq was brought in with the intention of being able to match up one on one vs Howard. Unfortunately for the Cavs, they didn’t make it to Orlando.
From what I’ve been reading and watching, I’m thinking Chicago goes after LeBron, offering Deng and filler in a S&T. And then LeBron would recruit JJ or Bosh to join him. Or the Bulls could sign LeBron outright, and try a S&T for JJ or Bosh.
Bulls are tempting because very good young PG in Rose, good young center in Noah, and with a coaching vacanacy, LeBron could help pick the coach he wants. And if he goes to Chicago, why wouldnt JJ or Bosh want to join him (they can form their own big 3).
One more thing on the Teague discussion: Rondo averaged 4.5 points, 3.0 rebounds, 2.9 assists, and 1.3 steals in 18 minutes during 53 games off the bench. I can’t imagine him making an impact with those kind of numbers.
But once he became a starter, Rondo averaged 10.6 points, 5.4 rebounds, 5.8 assists, and 2.4 steals in 36 minutes over 25 games. So before we criticize Teague and his numbers as not being ready, lets give him some time first.
Dap01
May 14th, 2010
8:04 am
I am tired of having to listen to how Lebron lost. The Cavs lost. It is a team sport. Where is the sportsmanship? It’s all about what a team can do for an individual and not what a player can do for a team.
I like Lebron, who doesn’t. But even his interviews have become a chance for Lebron to talk about Lebron and what kind of man he is.
Boring.
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
8:19 am
O’B – I’m hearing Calipari to Chicago with LbJ.
Maybe that’s reason enough for Noah to leave.
I don’t think they care much for one another.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 14th, 2010
8:52 am
“I dont like Okafor’s contract (about 4 years, $42 mil).”
Neither do I — it’s the worst contract in the NBA right now — but my reasoning is that if the Hawks are willing to take that off the Hornets’ hands, they can demand Collison (who would be the answer to the Hawks’ point guard problems for the next 10 years) as payment. More importantly, the value of Okafor’s contract is actually less than the combined value of Marvin, Zaza, and Bibby over the next two years, and unlike those three Okafor would fill a role the Hawks desperately need (defensive center off the bench who can guard Howard and let Horford slide to PF for stretches at a time).
Grandad
May 14th, 2010
8:59 am
Najeh – I like it when logic is applied.
Ken Strickland
May 14th, 2010
9:03 am
OBRIEN-place the blame where it belongs. You’re blaming the wrong person for those signings, just like a lot of fans still blame former GM Bibby Knight for not drafting CPaul or DWilliams. In both instances they were accommodating what Woodson wanted. If you can remember, it was Woodson who insisted on resigning Marvin, Bibby and Zaza. He also publicly expressed his doubts about the abilities of CPaul and DWilliams.
I think RSund will take a wait and see approach with Woodson, much like he did with Smoove and Childress. He’ll wait and see if another team makes Woodson an offer, and if he accepts, he will have successfully allowed Woodson to make the decision on his fate with the Hawks.
The 2 biggest trade commodities for the Hawks are Smoove and JChildress. Personally, I’d like to see us resign Chills with the idea of him becoming a starter and bringing Marvin off the bench. Unlike some of these trade scenarios we’ve seen, I’m in favor of looking at trade possibilities that limit costs and minimize personnel changes.
My trade suggestion involves looking into a straight up trade of Smoove for Okafor. Their salaries are almost identical and he gives you just about everything Smoove gives you, except the assists. His career stats are: PTS-13.3, REB-10.3, BLK-1.82, STL-.74, FG%-.509. He and Horford would make a very strong and productive combination.
Then we either resign JChildress, which is my preference, or trade his rights for a quality backup SG or PG. If we don’t resign Chills, we keep Marvin as our SF, but definitely include him in the OFF mix, which has to be more than giving him the ball and expecting him to go ISO.
Marvin has already proven he can be a consistent 15PPG scorer. Having Okafor @ C and Horford @ PF would certainly make us more physical and improve our one on one interior DEF, without sacrificing any shot blocking ability. To complete our starting lineup, we make Teague and Crawford our starting back court. It would be a lot easier to find a replacement for Crawford’s production than JJ’s. Then we either sign or trade for a quality backup SG and resign JoSmith and RMorris(see what he can do under a HC that gives a damn). I’d even look very seriously into signing FA center JPrzybilla.
Our team would look like this:
STARTERS-C-Okafor, PF-Horford, SF-Marvin, SG-Crawford, PG-Teague
BENCH-C-Zaza/Przybilla, PF-JoSmith/RMorris, PG-Bibby.
I’d complete the roster by acquiring a SG, SF and/or PG either through the draft or via trade or FA.
This back court would be able to take it to the basket against anyone, and our front line would be solid, especially on the OFF/DEF boards. We’d also have excellent size and versatility coming off the bench, and all of this with minimal changes to our core and no increase to the cap.
Ramon
May 14th, 2010
9:16 am
You do not trade Josh Smith without getting at least an all star back!
Ramon
May 14th, 2010
9:25 am
Its crazy that you watch the best teams over the last few years, and you notice that GMs of the best team never trade one of their three best players. The GMs actually takes time to become creative and use the guys 5-9, with trade exceptions, and draft picks to take advantage of teams who are cash starving. And they use their mid levels and free agent signing effectively. But they never trade their three best players! The Hawks three best players are Horford, Josh, and JJ. And these three have gone from 37 to 53 years in only two years with a coach who only coached half of the game (defense) and a PG who plays defense like a shadow, to go along with a bench where half of the players wouldn’t have a job if it wasn’t for the Hawks (sorry but no other team would’ve signed West, Collins, Morris, or Hunter).
ricknole
May 14th, 2010
9:33 am
Bring back Chills!
Ramon
May 14th, 2010
9:39 am
Question, would any of you consider signing Shaq for a 1-2 year deal?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 14th, 2010
9:42 am
“My trade suggestion involves looking into a straight up trade of Smoove for Okafor.”
If you offer the DPOY runner up for an injury prone big man with no offensive skills who gets paid more than twice what he’s worth straight up, of course the Hornets would accept. That would be a terrible move for the Hawks.
Mz. Hawkdafied
May 14th, 2010
9:47 am
Why sign Shaq now, he hasn’t exactly helped the King get a ring. Look how much better the Suns are without Shaq, they’re in the West Finals. So I’d have to say Shaq’s a no go.
niremetal
May 14th, 2010
9:52 am
Hey, hey, LBJ, how many times did you choke today?
niremetal
May 14th, 2010
9:53 am
Ramon,
The Celtics traded Jefferson to get Garnett, and Jefferson certainly was one of their 3 best players.
PMC
May 14th, 2010
9:53 am
With a tight ownership group without a lot of scratch to spend that money spent on Marvin Williams is an albatross. Either he feels no pressure to get better or he doesn’t understand just how much of a faceplant his career has been because this franchise continues to waste money on him.
Ramon
May 14th, 2010
9:57 am
Niremetal, when Boston made that deal they weren’t a Playoff team, they were a lottery team remember. They weren’t winning 53 games and going to the second round of the playoffs. Their fans were watching the ESPN ticker 24/7 waiting for Doc Rivers to be fired when they made that trade. And Garnett was an all pro player, who was a perennial all defensive player.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 14th, 2010
9:59 am
“Question, would any of you consider signing Shaq for a 1-2 year deal?”
For the mid level exception or less for one year, sure. I doubt he would come here for that little money though.
Mz. Hawkdafied
May 14th, 2010
10:09 am
I would not sign Shaq NOW, but 5-10 years ago most definitely.
Mz. Hawkdafied
May 14th, 2010
10:12 am
LBJ didn’t choke he had a triple double. The best TEAM won. Or the TEAM that played as a UNIT won. Basketball is a FIVE MAN sport not a ONE MAN show.
Ramon
May 14th, 2010
10:16 am
This is crazy that every tv station is blaming Lebron. However, not one person has come out and said maybe its Mike Brown’s fault. In actuality, I think Woody has better job security than Mike Brown right now lol.
BigTimeTECHFan
May 14th, 2010
10:19 am
I would love to see:
Johnson go F/A – He’s very good but does not need to be focal point in offense, would fit real nice on team like SA or Utah the move go move the ball around to different player
Smith
Josh Smith traded for top 5 pick
Take money saved and sign Dwayne Wade
Draft D Cousins from Kentucky 1st, Then Lewal with 24th pick
Then you would have
Crawford (2)
Teague (1) – pushes the ball
Wade (3) in mode of Paul Pressley who handles point a lot
Hortford (4)
D Cousins (5)
Backup
M Williams
ZaZa
Lewal
With new coach
BigTimeTECHFan
May 14th, 2010
10:22 am
Oh and Bibby would be backup gaurd to
JoJo the Godfather
May 14th, 2010
10:27 am
1) Trade JJ to Bulls for Hinrich (get draft pick if can)
2) Trade Marvin, Bibby & Crawford to Pistons for Hamilton & Prince (get draft pick if can).
3) Sign Childress.
Anyone think this core group of 8 can defend and share the ball on offense?
Hinrich / Teague
Hamilton
Prince / Childress
Smith
Horford / Pachulia
I like combo-guard Doiminique Jones from South Florida with our draft pick. Good defense. Not afraid to go the hole. Look at the fouls this kid draws. If you can get a pick out of the two trades above, go after best available.
Fresh
May 14th, 2010
10:38 am
Just heard something from a good source.
The Hawks WILL offer Woody a contract soon. Will it be a respectable offer, I can’t confirm, but they will offer him a contract.
The general consensus is that, as currently constructed, the Hawks went as far as they could possibly go. People feel there are actually very few coaches out there that could have took the Hawks further than Woodson did.
The changes are likely to come with the players (S&T Joe, or moving Josh) than they are with the coach.
Fresh
May 14th, 2010
10:39 am
* are MORE likely*
JC
May 14th, 2010
10:45 am
JoJo, just so I’m absolutely clear, you’re suggesting a straight up trade – Joe Johnson for Kirk Hinrich?
JoJo the Godfather
May 14th, 2010
10:52 am
Sign and trade. Joe gets close to max deal. Bulls do it to clear even more space. You could probably grab their draft pick as well. We’re not going to get a ton of value back in a S&T, but at least Hinrich is 6′3″, can play some 2, defends, shoots the 3, dishes more assists than Bibby, and is only 29. If we can move Bibby in another deal, this makes sense. If you can’t move Bibby, then you have to scrap the idea.
GrymmDaReaper
May 14th, 2010
10:52 am
Just a question..I do not know about cap space, luxury tax, and such things. Would Minnesota be willing to trade Al Jefferson for Josh smith.MMaybe with other contracts or draft picks thrown in fro either side. I thinkhe would be good next to Al Horford. Let me know what you all think ?
GrymmDaReaper
May 14th, 2010
10:53 am
Sorry aboyt spelling and grammer. Texting. lol
Prison Mike
May 14th, 2010
11:02 am
Horford, Smith, and Williams graduated high school in 04 and are 24 give or take a few months. Any who Smith and Horford are one of the best front court duos in the league in spite of having no offense system, guard dominated ball and of course Woody as your coach.
Williams on the other hand is the city’s highest ever drafted player and can be replaced by a much cheaper option ala Matt Barnes type of player and contract. His trade value is valuable as Woody’s coaching career.
dap01
May 14th, 2010
11:04 am
Woody sucks!
niremetal
May 14th, 2010
11:06 am
Watch ESPN use Fresh’s post as a source…
bigdave
May 14th, 2010
11:12 am
Grandad…
trust me.. there is a difference between being “listed” at 6′10 and being 6′10… seeing them side by side, Al is not too much taller than Steve Smith..
Ramon
May 14th, 2010
11:20 am
Niremetal, you mean the way Chad Ford owes half of his career to Sekou? lol
Wabe
May 14th, 2010
11:29 am
“My trade suggestion involves looking into a straight up trade of Smoove for Okafor. Their salaries are almost identical and he gives you just about everything Smoove gives you, except the assists. His career stats are: PTS-13.3, REB-10.3, BLK-1.82, STL-.74, FG%-.509. He and Horford would make a very strong and productive combination.”
I’m with Najeh on this one.
I’m not tryin to knock on your trade proposal Ken Strickland, but we can do way better than that. We could pry away Collison from N.O. if we agreed to take on Okafor’s contract.
O'Brien
May 14th, 2010
11:31 am
I think Sund will let Woody know (by Monday of course) that he will not be retained, because Sund has to start interviewing replacement candidates before the guy he wants signs somewhere else (Philly, Chicago, Clippers, Hornets, Nets and possibly Cleveland).
Ken S,
Agreed. A big part of the blame deserves to go on Woody, because I think Sund signed those players based largely on Woody’s recommendation. So he gave Woody the players he wanted, and Woody was not able to help them perform better.
I too would like to see Chills back with the Hawks, because I think him and Marvin combined would give us more production from the SF spot than what we received this year (if Rick is not able to make a trade).
Najeh,
To be fair to Okafor, his first 3 years he was injured, but for the last 3 seasons, I think he played at least 80 games.
If I’m the Hawks, there is no way I am giving JJ a max contract (6 years, $120 mil). If I’m not mistaken, the max another team can offer him is 5 years, $93 mil. If I’m the ASG, that’s the highest I’m willing to go (and I would explore all S&T options too).
Wabe
May 14th, 2010
11:33 am
Fresh
May 14th, 2010
10:38 am
“Just heard something from a good source.
The Hawks WILL offer Woody a contract soon. Will it be a respectable offer, I can’t confirm, but they will offer him a contract.
The general consensus is that, as currently constructed, the Hawks went as far as they could possibly go. People feel there are actually very few coaches out there that could have took the Hawks further than Woodson did.
The changes are likely to come with the players (S&T Joe, or moving Josh) than they are with the coach.”
And that’s BS, right?
It better be BS.
Woody be GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tale of Woe
May 14th, 2010
12:01 pm
Woodson has been relieved of his duties…
It will be announced later today. You never want to see someone fired (technically he isn’t being fired), but he wasn’t a good fit here…I bet he goes to Philly…..
SWAT Native
May 14th, 2010
12:07 pm
Fresh,
I was wondering this morning if the Hawks may try to give Woody a low-ball offer to put him in the position of having to turn it down so that leaving would be his choice.
Tale of Woe
May 14th, 2010
12:10 pm
Woodson gone
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/05/14/hawks.woodson.out/
drmaryb
May 14th, 2010
12:10 pm
Bafoonery!
For all the childish antics the Cavaliers engaged in through out this past season? I didn’t see a lot of shenanigans on the sidelines last night. Noah called them out for it and he was right! it looks bush-league and unprofessional at best.
If this were the NFL, the Commish would have fined all their azzes their eintire paychecks to make it stop! But, we have Mr. Stern (Not-So-Stern), at our helm. So, we have to suffer the bad referee calls and bafoonery on our sidelines.
LeBron, seems like a nice guy, but a little on the arrogant side to me. For him to say, “I am only 25 years old?” Well, he wasn’t too young to sign the contract and accept the two MVP Trophies.
Perhaps a couple years in college, would have helped him work out some of the sideline antics:
(oh – my bad! I have never even seen college kids pull those types of stunts on sidelines with such un-sportsmanship like behavior!)
Did, you notice his demeanor and poor attitude after game three or four? I heard there were some chemistry problems on the team? Lebron thinks he is the Coach of this team! Why not? Mike Brown allows them to clown before every game at LeBron’s behest! Word on the street, is that LeBron & Mike Brown got into a heated discussion re: player rotations and substitution patterns for the PlayOffs. Series 1 & 2. Allegedly, if true that does explain a lot!
Is Lebron coachable?
Cali OG
May 14th, 2010
12:14 pm
Go in peace Coach Woodson…
northcyde
May 14th, 2010
12:18 pm
Thanks Woody for helping making us relevant again. Good luck in wherever you go.
This song is dedicated to Woody:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdmlG6HGpXo
niremetal
May 14th, 2010
12:19 pm
FRESH – WHAT THEN???
O'Brien
May 14th, 2010
12:28 pm
Woody,
Thanks for your efforts, and good luck at your next job (which needs to be with a team thats young and rebuilding).
It will be interesting to see how many jobs he interviews for…
cp
May 14th, 2010
12:36 pm
Woodson seems like a good guy but the playoffs exposed a lot of his coaching flaws. In his next job he has to be willing to be more flexible. A lot of times when he has his mind made up he stuck with his decisions regardless if what he was doing was working or not.
northcyde
May 14th, 2010
12:36 pm
haha . . . and ESPN showed the progression graphic one more time. Yeah Woody.
Ramon
May 14th, 2010
12:37 pm
I bet Woody gets interviewed for the NO position. I’m thankful of his time here though. No matter what any one says IMHO I think Woody has done a GREAT job overall. I wouldn’t even be surprised to see the Detroit coaching position become open, and Woody have a chance for there. I do want to see Woody land in a nice position. And don’t be surprised if Woody ends up working with Brown in Charlotte for one season, so he can take over the Bobcats the season afterward. In a city where we’ve had coaches just quit on the team (literally and figuratively), you can see that Woody was dedicated to the Hawks his entire time here. He made sure the Hawks did great work off the court as well, and that was the most important thing.
northcyde
May 14th, 2010
12:38 pm
The playoff losses exposed the team flaws too. We’ll see if a player shake-up isn’t next. Ownership should keep this team together at least one more year. But if they lose JJ, the future is as uncertain as it’s been since the departure of Smitty and Mookie.
northcyde
May 14th, 2010
12:40 pm
If his boy Larry Brown becomes President of the Sixers, he’ll get an interview there too. That way, he can run ISO-IGGY in Philly, who has JJ-like all-around skills ( but more of a slasher and less of a jumpshooter ). Philly would be a good fit for Woody actually.
Ramon
May 14th, 2010
12:48 pm
Hey, on ESPN’s picture of Woody, he look like the real life Cleveland Brown lol….
northcyde
May 14th, 2010
12:50 pm
Now the question is . .. when this franchise hires a cheap assistant coach to replace Woody, will people be happy? If the “big name” is to come here, they better hurry up with negotiations, especially with all of these free agents out now. All these coaches probably want the Chicago job now.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 14th, 2010
1:28 pm
Woody came across as a classy, stand-up guy who ha the right personality for a good head coach, but it is painfully clear at this point that he is not capable of making the tactical decisions to win in the playoffs. I’m glad he helped make the Hawks relevant again, but I’m not sorry to see him go. This was the right decision.
That said, firing Woody is the easy part. The hard part is hiring a replacement who is better, whether that’s a big name or an obscure assistant. This is probably going to be one of the defining decisions of Sund’s career as the Hawks GM.
DP
May 14th, 2010
7:04 pm
If Joe does leave we should trade Marvin ,2010 first round pick, 2011 second round pick, and Bibby for MONTA ELLIS. Monta Ellis would fit in because he shoot a good percentage from the field, he is always one of the top players in steals, and he is lightning quick with a lot of skills to play aside Teague and Crawford.
COMMENTS???
sam'l
May 16th, 2010
2:10 am
Excellent article.
Joe is next…….Joe is a great player….He doesn’t have to be “a leader.” The whole team should be able to think for themselves individually. But he doesn’t want to be humiliated year after year.
So Joe is next, but before Joe is “the coach.” Because Joe is gonna walk unless he gets some heavy reassurance that change is really on the way. Tom Thibadeau should be your next coach or someone equally as brilliant. None of the other names I see are that exciting. Hubie Brown and Mike Fratello were never that successful as Hawks coaches regardless of what they sound like in the booth. Just because Sund knows someone in the past doesn’t make them a brilliant coach.
Is Sund qualified to find a brilliant coach. Warning: He’s qualified to wrap a team up before it’s shipped out of town!
Shorty Longfellow
May 17th, 2010
6:23 am
153rd!!!
Gamer
May 18th, 2010
2:08 pm
Trading J. Smoove or Horford would be malignant to Hawks starters because there are no better players out there at their position and in their prime to compensate these two players talents and basketball skills. They both have made significant growth since their entry into the NBA.
Horford brings a stout defensive presence and strong rebounding each game for Hawks.
J. Smoove brings the energy and enthusiasim needed in the game with reeling highlights dunks. Every team need a spectacular player.
These two should be untouchable regarding any trade deals.