Atlanta Hawks: J.J. Flirts With Miami Heat

I say he stays with the Hawks but we need to make improvements to the cast around him…

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Take Woody with you.

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dont let the door hit ya where God split ya joe. go get John Salmons instead.

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I wish people would just stop throwing out names of ppl to get..it’s one thing to say who should go, but if you haven’t researched salary caps, contracts, etc…then throwing out a random name is a worthless comment..Half of the names that get thrown out there are not even possibilities.

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Lebron

If Lebron leaves the Cavs why wouldn’t he consider the Hawks. His supporting Cast would be better, we are a top 10 market and he already said he would like to play with Joe.

The Hawks won 53 games without Lebron, with Woodson as our coach and Bibby as our PG…we would be the favorite with him. We would provide the best supporting cast of any team he could consider.(2 Allstars and the 6th man of the year)

I KNOW WE DON’T HAVE THE CAP ROOM….BUT IF HE PLANS TO LEAVE ANYWAY, WE COULD WORK A SIGN AND TRADE.

RICK SUND would atleast have to try.

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J.J. hasnt shown anyone he is the player they need. His POOR performance in the playoffs was a sign that he’s only as good as the coach. With some help from other players and a new coach, he may be better for us next season

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I agree with EW. Most of the names people through out are not even possible. The only name that is possible that makes sense for the Hawks going forward is Rudy Gay and most are not even mentioning him

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he never played like a number one option in Atlanta but asked for number one money, but will go to another team and TAKE number two money, which he should have took here, so we COULD have paid somebody with number one skills and been in it to win it, but he played us kicking that “I’m a number one Fella”

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The vibes aren’t good.

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@I blog–If the money is about the same, why not go where you have a better chance to win.

Look at it this way…if we could get Wade and keep JJ, would you want Sund to do that deal?

Case closed.

BWLFW

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sund needs to revaluate the whole team starting with Coach.
the team laid down against the Magic.No True Leader that can
demand respect from other guys.Woody your time is up You
got ATL rollin after the VERY BAD teams THANK YOU.These
guys needs a new leader

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Why am I already tired of JJ? Let the guy go, NO team will offer him what he wants anyway.We all know he’s not a leader and simply doesn’t seem to care about the fans. I’m done with him since his comments after game 3. True professionals should behave as such. I want him gone.

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bye joe/ small forward yeah right/gotta play d too/he hasn’t done that yet.

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Wow, I am completely amazed at how J.J thinks of himself to be an “elite player”…PLEASE!!!!!!!! If he wants to take his sorry, non-leader, apathetic a!!! to the Heat, then so be it. He is not worth the money the Hawks offered him last year and is now trying to drum up interest in a very pathetic way. This crazy ownership group were the same ones that overpaid to get J.J here and now he thinks he commands the market. This is what I say to you J.J…..BUH-BYE!!!!!!

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Get a clue,

If JJ is flirting with Miami, no way Wade is coming here, we’re up against South Beach, no state taxes (7% of 18,000,000???). Pat Riley is willing to do whatever to keep Wade, and may get JJ because he made it clear he’s a Robin, not Batman, and he’s perfectly fine with it.

The Atlanta Spirit Group doesn’t have the funds to lure someone down here.

I say we let Joe go, get a Big Man in the Draft, get Jeff Van Gundy, and hopefully draft high in 2011. Teague is our point guard, he just needs a coach who will give him minutes and development.

Don’t even talk about LeBron, no way will he be a Hawk.

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I reiterate: if JJ is an elite player, then so am I. Elite players do not disappear when their team needs them the most. As one commentator said: the top players (Cousy, Russell, Reed, Havlicek, his Airness, Bird, even Shaq and Wilt) didn’t just want to win the big games, they HAD to win the big games. JJ is, at best, a second tier player. Just because he was the best (still debatable) on the Hawks doesn’t mean that he was part of the league’s elite. He needs to go and Woody needs to be carrying his bags.

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I’m a huge proponent of JJ staying, but a sign-and-trade might not be a bad idea. If we can find a franchise with very good pieces that’s star-hungry…

I’d be with it.

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JJ is lookin’ for a leader himself!!! he’ll land where he is NOT the #1 option. HAWKS need to find a leader to spend their max money on…whomever that may be.

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Flirt? Go CONSUMMATE it for the love of everything holy! Good riddance!

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Flo Johnson said he’s need a daddy in his life lol( he has offically switched genders)!!!!!

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For you folks on the I hate JJ after he dissed the fans thing…I get it. I cannot apologize for him, but I am over that deal. He was upset and few people like getting booed by the home fans. Making lots of money doesn’t mean that your feelings disappear…only your privacy

JJ earned his money on that 5 yr/ $70 mil deal he signed to come here when no one else would except for a few carpet baggers that wanted to steal money (Curry, Dampier). At that time he was a 4th option on a really good team. Joe doesn’t whine about calls, he played more/better perimeter D and O here than anyone else during the last 5 years.

This is probably his last big NBA contract. He’s positioning himself to get paid. Maybe it’s here; maybe it’s not. In order to maximize his earning power, he has to sell the willingness to leave even if he doesn’t want to go.

That’s his real job.

If you had one shot to get a big payday wouldn’t you keep an open mind with all the organizations that could potentially provide the big check?

We don’t have to like it, but we don’t have to be so bitter either. That’s your choice.

BWLFW

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Here’s a thought:

I’ve seen a lot of people mention that they’d like to see the Hawks improve at the PG position, with a point-guard who is ready to run the team at that position right now, and who is a quick/solid defender. As you know, good point guards are tough to find at the right price, but I see a very interesting situation involving the New Jersey Nets.

They’ll likely be getting John Wall with the first round pick, and unless they want to waste Wall’s high potential, they’ll be playing him large minutes from the start, meaning they won’t have a huge need for Devin Harris anymore. Harris is still young, has good height for the PG position, is a sold play-maker and good scorer at the PG position. There are no glaring flaws in Harris’s game, and he’d be a huge upgrade over Bibby and Teague both.

So, if by some miracle, Joe would be interested in going to New Jersey, the Hawks might be able to work out a sign and trade that sends Joe to New Jersey for Devin Harris and Courtney Lee. Think about it, the Nets would probably love to have Joe. They haven’t had someone at the SG position who could create their own shot since they lost Vince Carter to the Magic. Also, with Terrence Williams looking like a rising talent in New Jersey, Lee’s minutes would probably decrease substantially next season, and I’m sure New Jersey would not be too hesitant to part with him.

Lee is tremendous young talent. He hasn’t flourished yet offensively, but he’s one of the best young defenders at the SG position and has shown that he can contribute immediately at the starting SG position, as he played a large role in the Magic’s run last post-season. With Lee and Harris, the Hawks could improve defensively on the perimeter, and gain in terms of quickness, athleticism, and longterm backcourt potential.

We could then potentially start Devin Harris and Courtney Lee together in the backcourt, giving Lee the role of guarding the opposing team’s best perimeter player, leaving Harris with a more potent offensive play-making and scoring role. I think that both of these guys could flourish in a structured offensive system, and are readily coachable, although young. Plus, provided that we keep Jamal Crawford, we’d still have a nice scoring punch at the SG position to bring in off the bench if needed, while Harris is resting. Additionally, we could give Teague consistent minutes behind Harris to see what he can do, and I think Teague would benefit much more in his development from scrimmaging with Harris and Lee than he would from scrimmaging with Bibby.

This seems like a nice trade in terms of value and it doesn’t involve getting in any long-term salary holes. The only problem is that we’d still have Bibby, resulting in a log-jam at the PG position. Also, Bibby’s contract is a bit too hefty for a 3rd-string PG. For that reason, it would be ideal if we could include Bibby in the package with JJ to New Jersey. I’m sure New Jersey would not mind that too much. Bibby could help mentor the young John Wall, and provide New Jersey with solid, limited backup minutes.

I just thought I’d throw that out there. Let me know what you guys think.

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I actually think the Melvin, Marvin, can still be really good. However, if we can get Bosh with a sign & trade using Marvin/Smoove as bait, I say take it.
Sign Childress to be our starting 3

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Does JJ know how to smile? Bring on Anthony Morrow he will be better than JJ and show some fire.

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lay off the drugs, hawks 2011 Roster

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just get john wall and bosh. trade bibby marvin and crawford release joe

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Lebron Wants to Win a Championship

If his number 1 goal is to win a title..his best option is in Atlanta.

If Lebron and JJ go to the Knicks, they will still lose to the Magic.

MannyT

The Cavs may not have a choice…Yes I would trade Al and Teague for Lebron.(I would prefer Josh and Teague)

I KNOW IT SOUDS CRAZY, BUT IF HE COMES TO ATL…HE COULD WIN 4 TITLES

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I would love to see David Lee in a Hawks uniform. He could be had for cheap and is about as quality of a center as you’ll see in the league these days outside of Dwight Howard. But could we survive Josh Smith playing small forward????

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You know, in terms of the point-guard position and the fact that the teams with the highest chance of getting the #1 pick (John Wall), we may have a chance to really steal a quality point guard using a JJ sign-and-trade this offseason. New Jersey, Minnesota, Sacramento, and Golden state all have a shot at the number one pick, and each of them already has quality PG potential on their roster. That means that if any of them get the #1 pick, they will likely need to get rid of their current starting PG, and JJ is one hell of a bargaining chip, the Hawks could use him to get a great young PG.

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Sign him and trade him to the Clippers for Eric Gordon. Let JJ play in LA.

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I do make typos…

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Reading this is giving me a head ache. JJ is a baby period.. Sign and trade.. Please get rid of J.Smoove jump shot.. Yeah right.. Get people who will PLAY HARD for you. It’s basketball.. It’ not about show and tell if you want a Championship.. Kobe, MJ, Ervin Magic, Bird, will tell you.. Atl. needs to stop desiring show boat material and just wanting winners.. It’s not about being electrifying… winning…

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Mike,

Cosign 100%

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How in the heck did this kid pass for being 16? Heck he look older than Teague…

http://www.ajc.com/sports/2222-year-old-accused-525184.html?cxntlid=thbz_hm

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Joe you baby you – You’ve been stealing $$ for years..

Don’t let the door spank that wallet on the way outta the ATL!!

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WHY IS EVERYONE SO HYPED ABOUT JOHN SALMONS? THE SAME GUY WHO HASNT DONT ANYTHING IN THIS LEAGUE UNTIL THIS YEAR…AFTER THE ALL-STAR BREAK WHO ALSO IS IN HIS CONTRACT YEAR? NOT TO MENTION HE IS….30 OR 31. HE IS NOT AN UPGRADE OVER JJ. I AM NOT A HUGE JJ FAN AS I FEEL HE IS A STRONG NUMBER TWO. BUILD THIS TEAM AROUND AL HORFORD. YOU WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS WITH DEFENDING AND REBOUNDING!!

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(1) Miami ain’t got crap for S&T.

(2) truthspitter: Thank you, I agree on [JS].
I don’t understand everyone’s infatuation?

(3) LbJ’s not coming here.
Folk’s try to understand reality.
Josh will improve w/o Bibby on premisis!…and minus Joe!
I think Al will/can keep him in line.
Joe leaves we cannot throw away talent!
Add Childress.
Subtract Marv via an astute trade,voila!

I’m also leaning toward ‘Tom Thibodeau’ [coach]
*(defensive game planning vs Cavs)*
Steve Smith/1st Lt./off. coordinator.

Plan o’ the day, right there. [from me that is]

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Grandad

What makes you think Al can keep Josh in line?

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The problem with the Hawks is lack of agression! Kevin Garnett made Glen “Big Baby” Davis cry on the bench!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GXgFC8q32Q

That type of leadership is what the Hawks lack. Woodson didnt even say anything to Josh about his actions…however during the season he would bench him. What kind of message are you sending to your players? There are two players on that bench I know that could have progressed this year to help this team…prepare your laughs…Mario West and Randolph Morris. Mario West is an energy spark, he can defend, and he penetrates to the hole. Morris…7′0 big man who can run. He just needs to play and learn the game. This team needs leaders…simple as that…

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“I know this is fantasy, but while i was playing NBA 2K10 last night I tried trading Marvin and Josh Smith for Devin Harris and somebody and they wouldnt do it. Yet I offered Bibby straight up for Brendan Haywood and they jumped on it. Then I added T.J. Ford and Will Bynum via free agency and traded Teague for Collison from the Hornets. I know it is a log jam at PG, but wouldnt that be a good thing for us? Also JJ would negotiate with me on the game, so lost him and just plugged Crawford in his spot.”

Add a “GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” on the end and that’s a typical Darrell Starks post.

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Rufus1:

Moreso Bibby & Joe leaving. Combine that with Al’s
newfound resonsibility of leadership. Which he is well
suited, therefore he will be up to the task.
Not to mention, the new coach will mentor Josh with a new
message & a new way of delivering said message.

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“For those of you who haven’t listened to the Hubie Brown interview on ESPN AM 680 in Atlanta, you realy need to check that out on their website. He talks in depth about the Hawks and what went wrong with this team.”

Link?

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I’d advise y’all not to believe a word that comes out of the mouths of Joe Johnson, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade, or LeBron James until July 1. Everything they say until then is posturing to create maximum value for themselves.

I honestly wouldn’t lose too much sleep if he landed in Miami, although it would suck to lose him outright with no compensation. I don’t see Joe’s game and Wade’s game meshing together all that well — if anything, Joe will be reduced to the best 3-point shooter Wade has ever played with — and Miami will still be left with no big men and no point guard. That sounds like a second-round exit team to me.

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“Najeh… Go back & crap in your closet…

Butt this time. Please close the door!!”

I don’t crap in my own closet. I prefer the closets of sleeping college co-eds.

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I tried to set this up as a link but being somewhat old
& technology impaired, I was unable to do so.
However, if you wish to look it up…good read.

LeBron’s moment of truth awaits
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports

Another reason I don’t care much for LbJ.
or
LeBronze
or
the LeBacle [espn]

*Thank you Najeh* Co-sign

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I dont buy JJ and Miami. If he goes anywhere, I think it will be Chicago.

Who wouldnt want to play with a very good young PG? Plus he has the same agent as Rose, and he is friends with BJ Armstrong, who is like a mentor to Rose. Plus Chicago would be a very good team with JJ, Rose, Deng and Noah as their foundation.

I hope he stays with the Hawks though, because he is a top 5 SG on offense, and a top 5 SG on defense. The Hawks do not have anybody else like that, and we wont be able to get anybody else like that. Plus, JJ can defend 3 positions for spot minutes…

Mike,

Did you really suggest Marvin, Bibby and a pick for Tony Parker or Chris Paul? Why would Spurs or Hornets go for that? Marvin and Bibby are not very good, and our first round pick is towards the end of the first round. Makes no sense to me.

northcyde,

How do you feel about a Josh and ZaZa S&T for Bosh?

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Too bad Joe didn’t flirt with the backboard or bottom of the net more. Always a fan favorite, especially when he opens his big mouth!

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this shows you why Joe did not put in any effort in the playoffs because he does not have heart, he does not mind not being great he will settle for good he does not mind being wade’s sidekick because the pressure will be off him but what is so crazy is that why did he turn down that 16 million last yr like charles barkley said because nobody else is going to pay him more than that cause he didn’t not show up for the playoffs this year or last year and a max contract player puts up more than 22 pts per game during the regular season

joe should have taken what sund offered him last yr cause if u want to be wade’s sidekick do u really think somebody is going to give u a max contract uh–no his dumb ass

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Hawks could be getting Tony Parker.

http://whiskeymadness25.angelfire.com/index.html

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Two days after getting swept in the playoffs this guy is flirting with another team? This year in the post season he didnt show up and last year he quit during the Cleveland series.He turns down the extention offer from the Hawks then flirts with the Knicks.Joe Johnson does not want to be here and should have been traded when he turned down the extention…

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I speculated on the other blog based on what we have on the table:

Fact > Good performances in ATL with JJ balling like an All NBA;
Possible result > Excessive confidence builds in the “weaker more impressionable minds”, namelyyounger players;

Fact > Bonehead remarks about not having anything to do in a night out in MIL;
Fact? > Limos waiting in the Airport;

Possible result 1> Confrontation between JJ and party goers
Possible result 2> Division in the locker room with flying accusations of ball hogging to one side and lack of focus to the other

Fact > Major egg laying performances in game 3 (and to a less extent in game 4);
Fact > JJ continues to play well – at All NBA level – in games 3 and 4
Possible Result > JJ sulks and loses faith in the group

Fact > More egg laying in game 5 with JJ no longer playing well
Possible Result > More flying accusations followed by one of those weak make ups which you see in many relationships. Peace words are exchanged but the “vase is cracked”.

Fact > Better overall performances in games 6 and 7 but JJ still struggles offensively (although defensively he has 2 stellar games)
Possible Result 1 > Younger players single out JJ for not performing and more accusations fly around
Possible Result 2 > The Chemistry is gone and ORL enters the scene, fully focused and armed to the teeth > Hawks crumble and JJ is “no longer in the house”.

Another interesting remark comes to my mind (don’t remember the exact words):

Al mentioned that the Hawks roster was “too laid back” and did not “buckle up for the playoffs”.
For me, that is a clear cut indication that there were people partying hard during the MIL trip and there are reports that JJ intervened vocally in the locker room against that behaviour.

My guess – and I am recanting from my previous posts – is that who said those stupid things about going out in MIL is probably who hired limos and went partying to CHI, namely Josh (and who else? Al? which would explain his lackluster performances in MIL)

On one of my previous posts I speculated why JJ’s play was so bad, now this complements and launches a different possibility to what I had previously said, namely that the cause for the “friction” was the ISO play.

Well, now I think that Woody’s lack of offense and over reliance on ISO play was MADE WORSE by the rift caused by the above and by the fact that JJ took upon himself to show that he was the man but in a half hearted way (disappointed/frustrated with the Hawks and without any faith).

By doing this he went completely out of sync and became an easy target for the defenses.

Hence, his commentaries about the public / locker room. Maybe his words meant:

The boos don’t change what happens in the locker room (the bad things, discussions, bickering, lack of focus and unity).

He was the target of the boos, but maybe for him, Josh should be the one because he (allegedly) acted as a childish fool and in a completely unprofessional way thus being in JJ’s eyes the main culprit of our demise.

Before anyone throws rocks at me, I am merely speculating.

MC probably knows a lot more than he can tell. His position as a beat writer prevents him from violating the players more or less intimate confidence in him and which comes with this task.

Just look at how Sekou only now revealed the feud between the younger players and the vets already since Chills’ times here 2 years ago.

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Good riddance.

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First off you dont trade josh smith if he sucks so badly y did he get second in defensive player of the year. You don’t trade your best defender period. Horford is a good leader but he will never be a 20 and 10 guy in the league because his offensive game is lacking. The hawks need a coach and a big man that can rebound and defend (haywood from dallas) period. I wouldn’t mid the hawks trading JJ for Haywood and butler. I would trade Horford for Haywood and butler if possible and then use your draft picks on some servicable young players to add depth at the Center and guard positions. Bibby or Teague, Butler, Marvin, Smoove, Haywood. Bench Crawford, ZaZa, Drafted pick Center, Draft pick Guard, Mo williams, would be a good team in the east and getting rid of JJ would help to develop Marvin’s offensive game more cause his length makes him a good defender at the 3.

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The Hawks need a fast point guard who can score and run the offense more than any other position. Teague needs a shot at it. Bibby off the bench shooting threes, Willaims needs to score more or bring back Childress for SF/SG, Josh needs to continue to improve his shot selection at PF, and Horford needs to also continue to improve. Keep Crawford coming off the bench with a rested Bibby, Play ZAZA more to keep Horford fresh, bring in a couple of new big PF/C types to spell Josh or Horford, bring in a new SG in a sign and trade for Johnson or let Childress play the position. Mo is a keeper just needs to perfect his shooting a bit, and Morris-it’s time to play him more or cut him ifyou can find another big better than he.

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As I posted in a previous blog, if Joe wants the most money, he should cooperate with the Hawks via a S&T. It’s a win-win situation for all involve. It would not necessarily be doom and groom if he depart. All teams retool when a peak occurs and for some, it works out just fine. JJ will not find a better “Be the Man” situation then he had in the ATL and he only took us so far. Based on JJ salary demands and our likely budget limitation, the Hawks can’t improve any farther to the next level with a higher paid JJ and the same cast of characters. However, if only a tweak was required via an upgraded PG, new coach, virtually the same JJ salary and that alone got us to the next level than it would be feasible. But the way in which Orlando beat the Hawks and our overall playoff performance suggest we need much more then just a tweak.

Remember, as Sund reviews JJ future as a Hawk; it’s not just solely going to be based on JJ skills set since they already know what he has done. It’s also going to be based on return on value or how much are they willing to pay for what they already know about him. When JJ came to the Hawks, he was paid based on being a rising-star not a super-star. Well today, for the sake of argument, let’s call him a star so he was paid accordingly. The question for today, is JJ a rising super-star since he seems to want “super-star like” or “high-end star” money. If some team sees him that way, then they should pursue him and pay him accordingly. However, public opinion says he is not. In fact some would even argue based on his playoff performance that JJ is becoming just a very good role player. I say he is some where in the middle and his salary demands will likely be an issue with the Hawk Management.

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Hubie’s interview lasted approximately 26 minutes.
I was captivated the entire time.
Can you imagine W_______ speaking for 26 minutes.
What could he possibly say, that would hold anyone’s
attention much less captivate an entire audience?

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Hubie – college professor at Harvard

Woodson – 8th grade public school teacher in a state that has the worst public school system in the country

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Would JJ want to play alongside D-wade, sure who wouldn’t! But having to choose betweeen Atlanta and Miami, come on now. Bye bye Joe! Hope Woody goes with you!

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they can have Joe im getting tired of his whiney ass

We need to get a true center so we can move al to pf, or a good pg to replace bibby

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Peter – Yeah I think Billy Knight did that one too.
Dif. owners though.
ASG is working hard.

vava74 – You really think Al rented one of those limos?
I’m thinking Joe’s entourage in one with Bibby.
& Josh + ‘crew’ in the other.

Zaza, Mo, Teager, Joe Smith, RandMo;
all went in a room and threw darts @ a wdsn poster.

Al, Jamal, Marv, Mario – went to a movie.

J.Collins went to ‘Golden Corral’.

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JOE MUST GO! JOE MUST GO! JOE MUST GO! JOE MUST GO! Okay now say it with me, JOE MUST GO! JOE MUST GO! JOE MUST GO! JOE MUST GO! JOE MUST GO! Okay, now let’s do the wave and hope his ass rides the wave out of here.

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Josh Smith

The Good: Great shot blocker, help defender, runs break well, highlight reel dunker

The Bad: Can’t shoot, can’t handle, no goto moves, turnover prone

The Ugly: Immature, wines to refs too much, shuts down/sulks when things not going well

Upon his 7th yr in the league, you decide!

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Grandad,

the reports that say that there were limos waiting in MIL also say that this was the cause for a major outburst by JJ against the culprits

you did note the (?) I inserted on the limo “fact”?

In relation to Al, he stunk really bad in game 3, so my guess is that yes, he went with the flow.

Sometimes the best behaved kid succumbs to peer pressure and makes a mistake.

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Mystikal:
You left off some stuff good & bad.

*Good – He fills the stat sheet:
steals + blocks/Bill Simmons calls them stocks/he excels @ both.
assts. very unselfish (1st or 2nd on team? correct)
slasher/inside scoring/much improved/to the point of being good.
hustle plays/diving on floor/loose balls etc./one of our best.

*bad:
FT’s/poor

New Coach/New direction/New message/New delivery = promise.

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If only we could’ve traded Bibby/Marvin and had enough cash to sign JJ and DIRK. With Dirk, Smoove could play the 3 easily, because he’d still be able to play. And against teams like Orlando, we could go with Dirk at the 5 and pull Howard out of the paint.

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And here’s what no one is talking about, when it comes to contracts.

INCENTIVE CLAUSES

Say the Hawks offer JJ 6 yrs – 90 mill w/no incentives

and the Heat offer JJ 5 yrs – 80 mill w/incentives

And in the Heat contract, they have incentive clauses that could easily run the contract over 90 million over its lifetime. Incentives like:

- being named an All-Star
- averaging 22 ppg + 5 assists
- being named NBA Finals MVP
- being named to an All-NBA team
- playing in x-amount of games per year
- helping the Heat make the EC Finals or NBA Finals

Which contract do you think JJ is going to take?

It would depend on which incentives JJ realistically thought he could accomplish. Playing alongside Wade, he could probably accomplish all but being an NBA Finals MVP.

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ASG must bring back joe for 5 year between 12mill 14mill a year, that would not hurt you so much on improving the team.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

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Is simple but ASG must spend the money, sign joe and bring in a star player 2 take the pressure of joe come playoffs, because as we can see under attack come playoffs joe fails every time.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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Man forget Joe. Ya’ll are forgetting he’s 29 years old. He’s only gonna get worse. Do ya’ll remember what Stephen Curry did to him? We need a young dude to revitalize this team.

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I would give up a lot off hawks roster for Stephen Curry. That kid is sick..

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On game day JJ called in sick. He quit. He’s a loser and most likely a fag.

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another team could use Joe but who is going to give him a max contract when he is a bust in the playoffs and they can spend their money on a much younger player because remember Joe is about to be 30 years of age and he is not a leader. Yeah he can be the #2 option but not for a max contract nobody probably doesn’t even want to pay him over 9 mil because he averages on 20 points a game during reg season and he is not even a top 10 player so he is not really a big free agent he is useful but not needed!!

The Hawks are they going to find another guy who can give them 20+ points a year 5 assist and 5 rebounds I don’t know so 50/50 we need him BUT don’t need him. If Joe would have done well in the playoffs, he would def been worth it and I am sure everybody here in ATL would have wanted him to stay.

So do we keep him or NOT I don’t know but it’s clear that he doesn’t want to be here cause he does not want to be the #1 option…

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trade smith for bosh and resign Joe, together they would play good. Smith is a cry baby and I think he needs to get out of Atlanta. Sometimes I think its bad to play at home because the city accepts your mistakes(example Jeff F from the Braves). Resign Joe and get Bosh!!!!!

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TRUTHSPLITTER-would you question Shaq’s abilities and accomplishments just because he’s been with FIVE(5) different teams?

Everyone wants to blame JJ for everything that went wrong. Remember the principle of CAUSE AND EFFECT? To blame JJ is the same as focusing on the cough(symptom) rather than the cause(flu). Woodson’s limited OFF system was designed primarily around shooting jump shots, not getting the ball or any players inside. In his limited OFF, there was little ball or player movement, unless you consider clearing out positive movement. What ball movement that was built into his OFF wasn’t designed to get the ball or a player near the basket.

When players were hitting their jump shots, no one paid attention to ball movement. It was only when our jumpers failed that ball movement became an issue, and when there was ball movement, it was confined to the perimeter, which merely led to more jump shots. There were simply no options built into Woodson’s very limited half court system to provide any relief, other than ISO’s. To add to the problem, Bibby’s diminished skills prevented him from initiating the OFF below the 3pt line, which certainly didn’t help improve ball movement.

JJ’s overall performance and perceived selfishness was simply a matter of him responding to the situation Woodson forced upon him. When the OFF broke down, his options were:

(1) Give it to Marvin, who he obviously didn’t have confidence in

(2) Give it to Bibby, who was severely limited and inconsistent

(3) Give it to Smoove, who’s overall OFF ability is limited, especially from the outside

(4) Give it to Horford, who was consistent all yr, but JJ probably felt his ISO skills were better than Horford’s.

Let’s face it, the primary feature of Woodson’s limited half court OFF is ISO’s, and that’s for everyone not just JJ. The problem with this philosophy is JCrawford was the only player that was efficient and effective in doing it. Marvin, Smoove, Horford nor Bibby had the ability to be effective doing it, and even JJ had his problems from time to time.

This was a case of Woodson trying to force players, who lacked the necessary skills, into the limited ill fitting OFF system he preferred.

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After the comments he made the other day about “not caring about the fans”,I say he needs to leave Atlanta because we deserve better than that.Honestly he didn’t seem focused on his job here in Atlanta especially this past season and he always choked in the playoffs.

I hope The so called Atlanta Spirit have the spirit to get rid of Woodson and Joe Johnson.

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One poster said that Joe Johnson should stay here,if he wants to be the man.You can’t be serious! Joe is not a leader and all he does is mumble like a fool.Dude is soft.I remember when little Mo Williams punked him last year.

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so much of this chatter can be framed and put into perspective by listening to this:

http://www.stationcaster.com/player.php?s=87&c=671&f=47825

please, everyone who has even a remote interest in the Hawks must hear the 20 minutes in which Hubie talks about us

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Davenpoo, the Hawks can’t let JJ go and use his money to sign Bosh ? Why not ? I’m asking you ?

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Hawks have 2 trade assets. Crawford and Josh Smith. Crawford is the SMOY and a $10 mil expiring contract, and josh has 3 years $37 mil left on his.

I am open to trading either, neither or both.

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cleveland’s organization is going through the same exact thing. Their head coach is a joke. Lebron is a good leader but not a GREAT leader. Mo Williams getting schooled by Rondo, Antawn Jamison by Garnett.

They run an extremely simplistic ISO offense as well, and are lacking intensity on defense. Boobie Gibson, who led them to the ECF last year, and according to Brown is their best on the ball defender, has seen no playing time. the consensus is that lebron will leave.

the best thing lebron did was sign that pesky little 3 year extension. They very well may lose him and gain nothing in return. same goes for joe.

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then our best option is to re-sign johnson and find the next great coach..

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These are the terms and phrases that people need to fully know the meanings of, before talking about what the Hawks can and cannot do this summer:

- salary cap
- luxury tax
- unrestricted free agent
- sign and trade
- cap hold

If you don’t have a full understanding of what these 5 terms mean, then you will continue to wonder why the Hawks just can’t go out and make a deal for one of these star players.

This is not baseball, in which if you have the money, you can just go out and get any player you want, if you have the money. In baseball, you have the big money teams basically going out and buying up all of the good players. Small money ( or small market teams ) don’t have the money to spend on established star players, so they have to win with lower payrolls and younger talent.

Basketball at least tries to even the playing field somewhat, by having a salary cap that all teams go by. But even in this system, the big money teams can trade with small money teams, to obtain star players that the small money team doesn’t want to pay a lot of money for. They have to do it within the rules of the system, but the big money teams seem to always find a way to get the players they want.

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I say the Hawks should not let Joe Johnson stay in the divison don’t just give Joe what he wants after what he did. You do a sign and trade make him go out west or to the Raptors . The Hawks have get something for him. I would trade for Carmello Anthony or Chris Bosh.

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Joe can sign anywhere he wants and we can’t do anything
about it UNLESS he wishes OR the OTHER TEAM wishes to
give him that Xtra YEAR! We are NOT in control. Joe’s
AGENT is in charge here!!! S&T exists ONLY if his AGENT
wants it to!!!

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http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/wan/1734814253.html – joe’s looking for a new job

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nire alert or najeh/sautee anyone?

Correct me if I’m wrong but in the article nc is referring,
Mr. Sund says he will extend Childress a qual. off. if he
opts out of euro contract. [Possible S&T] However, Chidress
can seek an offer fom another team? Correct? Which would
in turn allow us to match or S&T.
The key is we could match, thus J.Childress could still
remain here AND recieve MORE than just the qual. off.?

Motivation to return to Atl.
+
Greek econ. in the dumper.

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“Davenpoo, the Hawks can’t let JJ go and use his money to sign Bosh ? Why not ? I’m asking you ?”

The Hawks are over the cap with Joe. If Joe leaves, they will be under the cap, but not by enough to add a max contract, which is what Bosh will require.

And anyway, I don’t get everyone’s fascination with Bosh. He is even less of a franchise player than Joe (he’s never won 53 games or made it to the second round), his defense is terrible, and he would be a million times worse than Horford at guarding Howard because he is built like a stick figure. If you just want a guy who will get you 20 points and 10 boards, go get David Lee, Carlos Boozer, or Zach Randolph for far less money than Bosh and you can end up with the same result in the win column.

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Bryce VI ,

If you’re out there, respond. I have some stats for you that I posted during the season. You weren’t around, so you didn’t see them, is my guess. You asked, and you shall receive. If you have the guts, that is.

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If you want to trade Smoove + pieces to get Bosh on top of keeping Joe, that’s a move I can understand, although not one I support — a Joe-Bosh tandem would be tough to stop from scoring and might advance much further than either player individually, even though I’m not sure what you lose defensively downgrading from Smoove to Bosh doesn’t cancel out Bosh’s advantage as a scorer. But there is no way the Hawks can sign Bosh outright, and there is no way Smoove and Bosh can both start on the same team.

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Horford isn’t a center at 6′10, but David Lee is at 6′9?

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“If you want to trade Smoove + pieces to get Bosh on top of keeping Joe, that’s a move I can understand, although not one I support — a Joe-Bosh tandem would be tough to stop from scoring and might advance much further than either player individually, even though I’m not sure what you lose defensively downgrading from Smoove to Bosh doesn’t cancel out Bosh’s advantage as a scorer. But there is no way the Hawks can sign Bosh outright, and there is no way Smoove and Bosh can both start on the same team.”

Co-sign that. For me, step one would be to sign a coach who can maximize that situation. Bosh is not nearly the defender that Josh is when he’s locked on to what he’s doing. On the flip side, Bosh is over 6′11″ in shoes and has a 7′ 3.5″ wingspan. Put a coach in here who can persuade Bosh to put more effort into his defense, and more importantly gets the entire team to buy into it, and you have a guy who can bother people with his length, even though he won’t block 2 shots per game.

Also, Bosh is a 20/10 guy. More than that, actually. The chemistry he could conceivably brew up with a heady player like Al Horford is downright scary. For that, I’d trade Josh Smith. Especially if we upgraded at PG. I could live with Horford a the 5, Bosh and the 4, and either an improved Marvin (or a replacement for his spot in the starting lineup).

But you have to have the right coach. That guy ain’t Woody, sorry.

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Big Ray,

I’m here now. What is it that you are so anxious to show me?

By the way, if you posted something else earlier in the day in regards to me earlier, I have not yet seen it at this point, I’m away during most of the day. I have only seen your previous post to me on this page.

Also, are comments like “if you have the guts” really necessary? Lets try to keep things mature here, shall we?

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Also, in regards to trade deals that involve Chris Bosh for Smoove, I’d just like to throw in that there’s no guarantee that Bosh would produce at the rate he has in Toronto if he were here in Atlanta.

Aaron actually made a pretty good point above. From what I recall, Bosh doesn’t play on a team with any other strong rebounding big man, so his 10+ rebounds/game in Toronto may decrease if he were playing alongside Horford.

Additionally, I can’t imagine Bosh still getting enough shots to put up 20 ppg every night if he played on the same team with JJ and Jamal Crawford. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but I’m not confident that Bosh’s production would be as impressive in Atlanta as it has been over the last couple of years in Toronto.

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terrell?

Horford for Haywood and Butler?

Did I miss one?

Haywood is unrestricted.
Signing him outright is pos.

Unless;

they’re:
Talkin about ‘Spencer’….he’s retired, like me.

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Lebron…Atlanta

Could someone please tell me why he would not come to Atl if he going to leave Cleveland…I know can’t afford to sign him as a free agent, but sign and trade.

All you people saying it is a crazy dream to think Lebron would come to Atlanta…please explain why.

New York..has not talent..Lottery team
Miami…They only have Wade..that is it.(no Haslem or o’neal)
Chicago…They have less than his current team…Does want to live in the shadow of Jordan?
Clippers…You can’t be serious..lottery
Atlanta..2 Allstars, SMOY, Defensive 2nd place, Off the court revenue(10-20mil a year) all our players are in the prime of there careers and MLE+++the Phillips would be sold out every night, Celebrity’s, the City, advertising revenues would increase and ASG would be willing to spend above the cap to get a championship.

Atlanta is the only team that gives him a chance to get past Orlando…We won 53 games without him.

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That’s a pretty good argument on Lebron considering Atlanta, Rufus1. I think your comments may open a few people’s eyes on the possibilities.

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.uck Lebron! His playoff performance last night was worse than JJ’s. Plus, I’m tired of Iso’s.

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Would anyone else like to see Devin Harris and Courtney Lee come to ATL in a package that involves Joe Johnson? Someone posted about that scenario earlier today and I kind of liked the idea.

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Grandad ,

I have no issues with Hubie Brown whatsoever. If he hadn’t sworn off coaching, I’d send every emissary I could to recruit him here as a coach. I have a problem with “other people” continuously coming up with what appears to be “dead on” analysis about what this team lacks, and how to resolve those issues.

Why is this knowledge not apparent among the Hawks organization. Again, I love Brown. I just hope that Sund can see some of what guys like Brown see. Because Woody sure doesn’t.

That’s my gripe.

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JOE

Joe will never sign with New York or Chicago…Too much pressure. The reason he would consider Miami, because it fans our similar to Atl. 80% Joe returns

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Or sign and trade JJ to New Orleans for Collison and Marcus Thornton.

We get a pg and a sg for a sg.

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Bryce ,

Throughout the season, Teague’s playing time was up and down, but mostly between the DNP and 4-10 minute range. There are actually two sample sets to use. Both including significant minutes, and both include consistent minutes. Again, I’m not saying that either is “proof” of anything, just a basis for opinion, or an indication of what might be.

In the preseason, Teague played decently, despite his jumper not falling all the time. Through 7 preseason games, Teague averaged 26.8 minutes per game. He averaged 12.1 points, 4.3 assists, and shot 33.8%. Okay, we have all agreed that the shooting percentage sucks. Yet the points and assists are there (along with 1 steal per game). Also, while preseason is no guaranteed indication of what a guy will do, it’s certainly not summer league.

But here is where the rubber meets the road a bit more:

There was only one point in the season where Teague had consistent and significant minutes. That was in a 5 game stretch in December. During this time (December 9-December 18). In those five games, Teague averaged 21 minutes per game, he shot 17 of 35 from the field (48.5%), gathered 26 assists (5.2 per game) and had 42 points total (8.4 per game).

Again, just a small sample size, but the only time during the season that the minutes were consistent and significant .

Now, would you say that was merely an anomaly, or would that make you think maybe the kid could contribute more if he were played more (say, 15 mpg)?

Right after that 5 game stretch, his minutes went down and became inconsistent once again. He would play 2-4 minutes one night, 8 the next, 3, then maybe 20, whatever.

He didn’t get many opportunities to play above 10 minutes per game after that, and really didn’t do much until the season finale, wherein he torched the Cavs reserves for 24 points and 15 assists, shooting 11 of 19 from the floor.

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Big Ray, I’m at Wal-Mart right now. But when I get home, I’m going to try to put a significant dent in your Teague counterpoint. And it’s a point that I’ve made all year about the kid.

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First, you’ll never get a decent post from a writer that can’t even use a name, Joe Johnson. I get really tired of these so call sports people that want to be buddy buddy with the players. I think going to Miami would really be good for the Hawks, can you imagine being second banana to a real star like Dwayne Wade. I can see the sulking now that J.J. isn’t getting enough attention for being one of the 3-4 best players in the league. Let him take his act their, and use the money to bring in a team player to mesh with the already good talent on this team.

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***JOE GETS TO PICK WHERE HE WANT TO GO -(NOT the HAWKS)***

***PEOPLE PLEASE OUIT THINKING WE GET TO ORCHESTRATE A S & T***

***JOE IS AN UNRESTRICTED FA UNRESTRICTED MEANS NO RESTRICTIONS***

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Northcyde ,

Do your worst. If your point is that Teague doesn’t shoot well, I’ve already conceded that. My point was that over one small stretch of consistency, he did well. That alone might have prompted me to think that perhaps playing him a bit more might not be a bad idea.

On the other hand, 53 wins justifies Woody’s decision to play him exactly as he did. Except, those wins meant nothing in the playoffs, where we had no options at the point guard position aside from Bibby (outmanned in both series) and Jamal (the guy you gleefully roast at every opportunity, and the stats back you up quite well).

Could playing Teague a bit more and trying to develop him into an option at backup pg have hurt the Hawks in the standings? Possibly, but I’m inclined to think not. Could it have helped? Again, possibly, and I’m inclined to think so. Can I back this up with stats? Not really, it’s an opinion, and that’s all it is.

We disagree on whether or not we think Teague can be a player in this league. Something tells me whatever point you wish to make is no more likely to convince me that your opinion is right and mine is wrong, than MY opinion is going to convince you of vice versa.

And I can’t believe you are following along with this on your I-Phone…at Wal-Mart. I had to laugh, sorry, it was funny. Not funny in the way of deriding you, just funny that you mentioned it.

But I look forward to the argument I’m liable to disagree with. Discussion is good…

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Grandad ,

You aren’t the only one who has been shouting that. Joe and his agent are what this is all about. The Hawks can offer everything in the world, but if Joe wants to be gone, he’s gone. That’s not hate, that’s staying married to reality.

Some people say “be careful what you wish for.” Why? Somebody call me back when the wishes of fans become the determining factor in all basketball operations of a sports franchise….

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Should have read: “By the time you get a well-researched post cranked out.”

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“If Johnson signs with another team, Sund said the Hawks wouldn’t have the flexibility to sign a comparable free agent. They would be limited to using their salary-cap exceptions to sign mid- and minimum-salaried free agents”

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Najeh ,

Is that your way of saying “Ray STFU!”….?

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“If there was a league-average starting point guard on the Hawks, playing Teague spot minutes and DNP-ing him more than half of the time would be perfectly justified. When your starting point guard is far below league average at all but one aspect of the game, there’s no excuse not to play Teague, no matter how raw he might be and no matter how bad he may suck. Give me the sucky rookie who might get better over the sucky veteran who is only going to get worse every day of the week.”

Preach it, preach it, preach it…

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Preach it ….. Preach it?

Ok, but do we win 53 games? The best we could have done with the way it played out, or, do we still end up @ 3 seed?

Just wondering? I personally, want whoever gives us the best chance to win every game possible, regardless of who plays. IMO, that is a better way to assess our team needs – moving forward. We still don’t know what Teague can do yet. If, he can turn into a Rondo with a jump shot, then we should focus on the Center, then a veteran PG to bring him along (that still may be BIBBY as his back-up) and let J-Quick spelll JJ at the two. Or, can Crawford play the 3- Spot (defensively & size-wise)?

Is so, then Marvin comes off the bench at three & we build our bench from there, leaving The Boss at the 5.
We def need a bigger center who can defend & rebound primarily, to move Al to his natural 4.

Geez, I don’t envy Sund at all.

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If JJ walks, then can we sign Childress, go over the cap, and then sign another max FA? Can’t we sign Childress and go over the cap so we can have flexibility to get others?

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Ray,

I could be wrong, but I am guessing that northcyde will come back and talk about how when Teague gets in the game for his 5-10 minutes here and there, he does not make enough of an impact to justify more consistent PT, or more than the 10 minutes he was getting.

What he won’t talk about, is that when Bibby is in the game, his impact is mostly negative. And a lot of our fourth quarter metldowns happened with no PG in the game (because Bibby went bad quick), so we were dependent on 2 SGs to initiate our offense.

On Monday, Woody becomes a free agent. I remember during the year, some bloggers said even if the Hawks want him back, he should explore other options because Sund did not offer him an extension during the offseason.

I think he will have no choice but to explore other options. Although the players seemed to quit on him, he also got outcoached in the playoffs. It will be interesting to see which teams interview Woody.

I’m thinking Philly and the Clippers will give him a call.

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O’brien ,

I think Northcyde (if that was really him) never made it home from Wal-Mart. He’s still in line, even as his wife sends him a text on the i phone, telling him something else she wants him to pick up. We’ve all been there….

No seriously, you probably have it pegged. I do remember him saying almost those exact words: have an impact when in the game.

You know, there’s a guy who came into the league several years ago. He still plays, and his team contends each year. But when he first came into the league, they thought he might be a SG in a PG’s body, or just a combo guard. Problem was, his assist to turnover ratio wasn’t great, and he couldn’t shoot 40% from the field to save his life. In fact, his assist/turnover ratio stayed below 2-to-1, and his FG% stayed below 40% for his first three years in the league.

Isn’t that the same thing people bang on Teague for? Does that sound like an impact player? Guess what the difference was? This guy averaged 11.2 points per game. Do you know why? Because he averaged 28.4 mpg, roughly, for those first 3 years. The lowest he ever averaged per game in a season was 23.5 mpg.

Now if you think Teague did poorly in 10 mpg, what would you think of a guy who did just as poorly (only he scored more points because he played more) despite getting nearly three times as much playing time? Hell, this guy even got shipped from one team to another in his first year, then to another a year after that. Then to another . It wasn’t until year 4 that he finally shot a tad above 40% from the field, and his assist to turnover ration improved to about 2.4-to-1.

So who was this loser?

Chauncey Billups. You know the rest. Championship ring. All-star. One of the best pgs in the game for several years.

Don’t judge the book to closely in the first year when you haven’t gotten past page 1. Don’t underestimate what playing time will do or show. Don’t dismiss the influence of good coaching and the right situation.

We still don’t know for sure what Teague is about.

And it’s a little hard to “make an impact” on the game when your job is to get across half court, pass the ball to whoever is playing SG in the game, and get the hell out of the way. And don’t tell me Woody told that kid to go in there and run things. We didn’t see much out of Bibby, who was getting nearly three times as much playing time as Teague was (9.1 ppg, 3.9 apg, 41.6% shooting from the field). If he wasn’t doing much, then what the “F” were we expecting out of “ROOK”, who was playing just over a third of the time Bibby was, and would have gotten mean-mugged if he took Joe, Josh, or Jamal’s shots?

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if joe leaves we should consider ray allen i kknow he is not nearly as good or young but i feel we would still be a playoff team with him

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Get Ray Allen? We have to learn how to set screens first. It’s one reason Joe dribbled so much. No screens.

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drMaryb.- Josh has heart as demonstrated by his off the court endeavors (I mean the good stuff) like taking care of that family from Marietta who lost their son. That can not be argued with.

But, he DOES NOT have heart on the court. He is too unreliable, too inconsistent with his effort, he is too self involved. The youth and immaturity excuse is long gone.

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“if trading him 2 make us a contender i will co. sign it all day.”

So will I, but the best player I have seen proposed that the Hawks would receive for him is Bosh, who has never been a contender in his life.

Assuming Joe is getting the max from someone, the only two players on the Hawks who would be producing up to their contracts if he leaves are Josh and Al. I really don’t think you are going to get full value for him in a trade, especially if you have to pay a non-franchise player like Bosh the max in order to do so.

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I am reminded about a coaching change about 20 years ago. Doug Collins was coaching MJ before “The Zen Master” Chicago was a decent team at that time but lacked the coaching to take them over the hump. Looking at the Atlanta Hawks…Coach Woodson has done a fantastic job with what was given to him. He was brought the team from 13 wins to 53 wins. However, the last two years in the playoffs justify why Mike Woodson should move on. Last season a Miami Heat team took us 7 games,then swept by the Cavs, this year the Bucks take us 7,and then swept by the Magic. Grant it in 2008-09 season the Hawks dealt with injuries, but apart of coaching is to have players waiting in the wings. I look at the Jazz who had Mehmet Okur and AK-47 out but they still put up a valient effort against the Hawks. Mike Woodson lacks aggression which is what this team needs. There is no way ZaZa should be riding the bench as much as he does, Jeff Teague should have played more(especially against that Brandon Jennings guy), and there are 3 big men that could have been used a little more during the Magic series(Joe Smith, Randolph Morris, and Jason Collins). Coach Woodson has done a great job in Atlanta and will be a coach again someday but the Hawks need a stronger voice and a coach who will change their mindset.

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KISS MY ISO, JOE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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One thing I will hate most about this offseason is all the waiting. Sund works at a turtle’s pace (not saying that is a bad thing), but I want this all decided quick.

I do not even want to know how many on here would react if Woodson were brought back. I don’t think I want him back, either. But, I would not hate it, like many on here would.

Rick Sund may bring Coach Woodson back just to see the meltdown on here.

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Ray,

Exactly. How many rookies have impacts on a game when their minutes are inconsistent, their coach is quick to pull them with each rookie mistake, and they play in an offense which dictates giving the ball to the SG and get out of the way (heck, even Bibby does it).

I’m not saying Teague deserves to start, and I am not saying he will lead us to the promised land. All I am saying, is the sooner we give him minutes, the sooner we will find out if he is a keeper or not. If he plays well, good for us. If he doesn’t, then bench him or trade him.

I think JJ will get the max offer from multiple teams (not including the Hawks). The problem is, I dont think teams like the Bulls and Knicks will be interested in a S&T when they can sign him outright.

JJ might be interested in a S&T because that gives him more money, but if he is willing to take a paycut to play on a better team, that gives him a better chance of winning a title, which is what he says he wants to do, and he wants to play on a team that has pieces around him.

A sign and trade would weaken the Bulls and the Knicks, so is JJ willing to sacrifice potential teamates just for the extra year and the extra $20 mil? All that would do is put more pressure on him.

I think our best bet is to either resign him, or find a S&T with a team that is over the cap.

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Must I remind you guys as well when the Hawks won 13 games and the Hawks picked…..2ND!!!!! The freaking Bucks won the first pick!!!

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Daniel as i posted on the last blog on how make this team a contender.

1.Trade MARVIN and TEAGUE for DEVIN HARRIS
2.Trade JOSH, ZAZA, MOE, for BOSH
3.Resign JOE for about 13mill a year
4.With DEVIN, JOE, HORFORD, BOSH, you can build something special
5.DEVIN is 27, JOE is 28, HORFORD is 23, BOSH is 26.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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C.Moore- He can’t say we are going to fire him, because Woodson is not under contract. Woodson does not need to be Fired!!, we can decide to go in a different direction and so can he. I think we need a change at coach, but Woodson doesn’t deserve to be treated poorly by the orginization. He will not be FIRED, not resigned (probably).

darrell- I like Parker better than Harris and he has an expiring contract which gives us more long term flexability.

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Yeah that was me Big Ray . . . but when I get home, I was typing what I was going to type, but my internet connection went down overnight. LOL . . so I had to save what I was going to type to my dang computer via notepad, and hope the connection came back up. And I wasn’t going to type all of that ish on my phone. So now I’ll copy and paste what I wrote last night.

*************

The 5 games that you love to cite about Teague, are the stretch in December in which we started a nice little winning streak after the 1st NY Knick debacle in which Smoove got kicked out of the game, Al Harrington was shooting 3s like he was Allan Houston, David Lee thought he was Larry Johnson, and Chris Duhon thought he was Knick legend Walt Frazier for just one night.

* Beat Chicago 118 – 83
* Beat Toronto 111 – 89
* Beat Jersey 130 – 107
* Beat Memphis 110 – 97
* Beat Utah 96 – 83

The first thing that you notice, is that they were all blowout wins . . which is the reason why he got all of that playing time. But that’s not even what I want to focus on. I want to focus on WHEN Teague performed. Did he perform when the game was still in the balance, or did he perform when the game was out of reach?

Chicago game:

- 1st half: 2 pts ( 1 – 2 FG ) – 2 asst . . 7 min
- 2nd half: 6 pts ( 2 – 5 FG ) – 6 asst . . 15 min

Toronto game:

- 1st half: 2 pts ( 1 – 1 FG ) – 4 asst . . 7 min
- 2nd half: 9 pts ( 4 – 5 FG ) – 3 asst . . 14 min

New Jersey game:

- 1st half: 7 pts ( 3 – 4 FG ) – 1 asst . . 9 min
- 2nd half: 5 pts ( 2- 5 FG ) – 2 asst . . 15 min

Memphis game:

- 1st half: 0 pts ( 0 – 0 FG ) – 1 asst . . 4 min
- 2nd half: 4 pts ( 2 – 6 FG ) – 4 asst . . 13 min

Utah game:

- 1st half: 0 pts ( 0 – 1 FG ) – 1 asst . . 5 min
- 2nd half: 7 pts ( 2 – 6 FG ) – 1 asst . . 15 min

Total:

- 1st half: 2.2 ppg ( 5 – 8 FG ) – 1.8 asst . . 6.4 min
- 2nd half: 6.2 ppg ( 12 – 27 FG ) – 3.2 asst . . 14.4 min

***************

The only thing I’ve ever asked Teague to do, is to try to make an impact on a game when he gets in the game. Don’t just be “out there”. Try to do “something . . . anything”. Just don’t do it when the game is out of reach, when there is no pressure on you. Do it when the game is still in the balance.

When he comes into the Toronto game, and has 2 pts and 4 assists in 7 minutes, that’s “doing something” in my eyes. When he comes into the Jersey game, and has 7 pts and 1 asst in 9 minutes, that’s “doing something” in my eyes. That’s all I’ve asked out of the kid. When you get into a game, TRY to make an impact.

Far too many times, Teague would get into a game in the 1st half, and do absolutely nothing. Nothing on offense. Nothing on defense. Just nothing. Sure, chalk that up to being a rookie. But then again, the other rookies around the league would come into a game and “do something” as soon as they stepped onto the court. That’s why they would get rewarded with extra PT.

If people want to make the argument that Teague wasn’t developed enough by Woody, especially when Bibby started to go into rapid decline in the 2nd half of the season, I won’t argue that. But it’s not like Teague was doing his part to convince coach to play him more.

That’s all what my point was.

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OK….EVERYONE……WHAT GM WOULD WANT MARVIN WILLIAMS??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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C.Moore- I am sure that the Hawks and Rick Sund have already made their decision on Woodson, and probably have targeted a replacement. They are just keeping it to themselves until Monday.

Yeah, Ramon- unfortunately I would have to agree with C. Moore on that one. I don’t think the Spurs would make that move.

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Ramon-Great point. If Marvin played this year like he did last year then you a better case would be made to trade him. Marvin could be solid in the right system. The Hawks under Woodson played so slow. When the Hawks ran the floor the Hawks played good.

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Daniel-Bibby is 32 and is making 5 mill next season…he is not a starter in my eyes anymore, and makes a little to much to be a backup. It will be hard to trade him.

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Interesting title, MC. JJ is just like a girlfriend who is beginning to distance herself from you and flirting with other guys and you can’t do anything about it. If you say “don’t flirt with him,” she may go ahead and leave. If you say, “go ahead if you want him,” she may go. All you can do is let it play out.

Yes, I have issues with an old girlfriend . . .

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For the Spurs system, and for their team, I don’t think Bibby would that bad on their team as a backup PG playing 20 min a game. With McDyess and Duncan backing him, his defense doesn’t seem so bad because who really wants to penetrate just to go head up with Duncan? And Marvin solidifies them for Jefferson (who had eerily close stats to Marvin) to be let go. Parker makes right at 11 mil next season. So that’s in the same ball park of Bibby and Marvin’s combined salary. And if you need to throw in a pick or change (Evans?) to make the deal go through, go ahead. Because you have to think what other CHAMPION is available that can come on this team and have a positive influence? Derek Fisher is the only other PG in the league that has as many rings as Parker. And with the Hawks wanting Teague to take over more (that doesn’t necessarily mean start), Parker limits can be limited to 25, and Teague could still get 21-23 a game. That’s perfect! Parker had a bad year compared to his past, but he still averaged 16 and 5, while shooting 48%. He’s still one of the best PG in penetrating and getting into the lane. I would even consider throwing in Zaza if needed to make it happen (really think you can find his production and a better defensive presence in Haywood).

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Ramon- Parker is going to make 13 milion next season. I agree that Bibby is tradable to a team like the Spurs who have such good contract structures and love a veteran on an expiring contract. I just think it will take Josh not Marvin to get Tony.

Plus, Ramon you are wrong when you say that Josh shows “heart” by whining and not getting back on defense. I am not a fair weathered fan, nor overly emotional. That series against Orlando is inexcusable, the effort, the lack of hear, chemistry, etc. actually reach historic proportions, so I don’t think anyone is over reacting, here. I am not saying Josh doesn’t have any heart and Joe does, they both played like utter chumps!!!(BTW- I am a fan of both) But those two in particular set the emotional tone for the team and have the biggest effect on the team’s chemistry, which was demonstrated to be the worst EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA PLAYOFFS, so something has to change more than just the coach.

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Lewis, except Cleveland is still in the Playoffs.

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Blue-Ray
(talk to the hand!)

Hey dude,

I don’t know if you are right or left handed? i doesn’t even matter right now! Look at your dominant hand and scream at it, “You HOT man, You HOT!”

Why? Because of “Part- Wa” of this editorial:

“So who was this loser?

Chauncey Billups. You know the rest. Championship ring. All-star. One of the best pgs in the game for several years.

Don’t judge the book to closely in the first year when you haven’t gotten past page 1. Don’t underestimate what playing time will do or show. Don’t dismiss the influence of good coaching and the right situation.

We still don’t know for sure what Teague is about.”

Nuff, Said!

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Let Joe go. If he does not want to be a Hawk, send him packing.

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Well said Ken. Woody despises Rookie pg’s. He must’ve had some kind of bad experiment with his Coach when he was a rookie, and his coach tole him “that’s why I dont play your ass”. I’ll never forget when he said that shi. to Acie. What an azz.

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Daniel, you’re talking about something that happened in the 3rd quarter of game three. Up until the 3rd quarter of game 3, Josh was having the best postseason of the entire team. He failed to get back on ONE play because he was arguing. The only other play he didn’t get back on defense was when he was clearly hit in the eye by Marvin Williams. And this same eye was the reason that he had to go to the locker room during the first half of game 4. I said complaining about calls and wanting to be given a FAIR game, doesn’t make the man not have heart. Also that same game three, Josh had 18 points while grabbing 11 boards. So if any one say that Josh caused the Hawks the game, then they’re proving they don’t know basketball. One play can not cause a professional team the game. They scored two points on that one play. Should he have gotten back, yes. But to say he had a poor play offs where he basically averaged a double double, even though he was only able to play 24 and 23 minutes in Game 7 vs Milw, and Game 1 vs. Orlando. Besides Horford (who had the same exact stats as Josh, except for Josh having higher Steals and Assist), who could come close to saying they did AS MUCH as Josh did during the playoffs to help the Hawks?

The chemistry issues came because of defense, where Josh AND Al grew tired of getting in foul trouble because Bibby, Crawford, and JJ were getting beat off the dribble putting Josh and Al at a disadvantage game after game. And to make it worse, they were instructed by Woody, to play the guards soft at times when they penetrated so they wouldn’t pick up a foul. ESPN fed into many believing that the chemistry issue was because of Josh taking one play off. In that game, everything that the Hawks did the commentator scrutinized. Howard was 6-8 in fg attempts, and she would criticize Smoove for leaving Lewis long enough to go double Howard, once Howard would put the ball on the floor, saying “you can’t turn your back on Howard. What is he doing?” How else can you double someone while still guarding another player?

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Ramon- it was more than one play. I can think of at least 3 in both games 3 and 4. He also reverted back to jump shots, a lack of defensive intensity that was apparent to every single analyst, reporter who watched the game. There is not one person, coach, analyst, etc. who has not commented on Josh’s extremely poor play. Or do you think they all have an agenda to get Josh? (cause he certainly seems to think, so). If you what you mean by having heart is believing everyone else is wrong and you are right despite all the evidence, well, then Josh seems to have it in spades.

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Daniel- you’re saying he reverted back to shooting jump shots? The man shot right under 50% for the entire playoffs. Jamal Crawford mainly shot jumpers the entire playoffs and only shot 38%, so why no one is saying he shot too many jumpers? Josh went 7-17 and 6-13 in games 3-4, that’s not horrible shooting. On the attempts where he would post up Lewis and try to shoot his running baby hook (that he shoots at a very high percentage) Dwight Howard would come on help and nicely throw it into the front row. Josh shot 3-9 on his jumpers in game 3-4..Crawford shot 4-14 on his jumpers in game 3-4. Josh shooting 33% wasn’t terrible! Horford was 0-4 in jumpers in game 4. Why no one complains about that?

Defensive intensity can only come when you’re not questioning yourself. If you’re guarding Lewis, who is a great 3 point shooter, and you’re constantly needing to help on defense for penetrating guards, or Howard posting up, you’re faced with a big question mark as to who to guard. If you go help, you’re criticized for leaving a shooter. If you don’t go help, you’re criticized for not helping and having the defensive intensity that you normally have. People forget that Lewis is the 2nd best shooting PF in the league (Dirk is 1st), so the way Josh plays him can’t be the same way he play all PFs all season long. That’s called GOOD COACHING AND TEAM STRUCTURE on the part of Orlando for placing the Hawks best defender in that position. If you can take a normally instinctive player and make him second guess himself, it will be very hard for him to be comfortable and perform while maintaining the instinctive level.

As fans we are getting mad at the players, when the truth is they just got beat by a better team in all aspects of the game just about. And until Orlando takes the court again and blowout the Lebrons or the Boston Diapers, you won’t understand clearly how much better this team is than any team in the east. Bottom line we just got BEAT!

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Grandad, even better than that Teague, Salmons, JJ, Josh, Al– Jamal, Haywood, Marvin coming off the bench. If the Hawks don’t take the payroll to 80 mil, next season will be more of the same.

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Like I said plenty of times during the season, its amazing we won 53 games although we got almost no production from our pg and sf… I really think Woodson would still have his job if he would have hired an offensive coordinator. He is just simply not creative enough on the offensive end. Having a offensive coordinator would have allowed him to focus solely on the defense while the coordinator came up with the offensive plays.

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@ Daniel, in the Parker scenario he’s in SA (that’s the one I like the most because of the championship pedigree, I really think Marvin, Zaza, and Bibby makes that deal happens). In the Salmon’s deal (free agent signing for mid-level), Bibby’s sitting next to Kenny Smith on TBS I guess lol. Seriously, because of how good he’s been in the locker room for the Hawks, Sund would show a lot of class by not trading Bibby to a bad organization. But a team like SA, Portland, Utah, Houston (remember they really wanted him), and a few others I actually would deal for him now that he’s not in his base year anymore. But even bringing Bibby back as the back up point guard isn’t a bad thing. Either way, the Hawks are still going to have to spend money. I mean Crawford, Haywood, Marvin, and Bibby on the bench would be a great bench to me, along with a defensive guy like Brewer.

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Haywood, why would u take him over Za Za. What do u do with him on the offensive end, Al is your post player and I don’t c Haywood knocking down that 15ft jumper. Think a little before u started tossing names out.

53 wins is pretty good, build don’t destroy

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Hawkville, Haywood averages a double double. Haywood provides more of a defensive presence than Zaza. Haywood makes more routine athletic plays than Zaza does. When Horford and Smoove goes out of the game, Zaza gives up lay up after lay up because he has no elevation, timing, nor the length to alter anyone’s shot. You don’t need someone as a back up C who can knock down a 15 ft jumper when your starting C can do that. On the second unit, the Hawks lose defensive intensity. The man averaged 9 ppg, 9 rpg (3.5 orpg), to go along with 2 blocks a game. And you say to think a little? Zaza averages 4 ppg, 3 rpg, 0.4 bpg, and 3 fouls pg. How does that even come close?

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Ramon:

I put [FA] or _______ as oppose to a real name.
I suspect Haywood is a prime target.
I do not understand everyone’s infatuation with Salmons.

Daniel:

Bibby will be gone even if we have to pkg.
someone with him & receive:

* “a lap dance from a NY city gentleman’s club” *
in return.

*(reference to article in which LbJ supposedly
receives a lifetime offer [lap dances] from said
NY/Gents Club if he will come & play for Knicks)*

* “LbJ also will supposedly receive free access
to the ladies.”
“a private entrance”
“lifetime of complimentary dinners”
“served by topless waitresses”
“all followed by a complimentary lap-dance”

Personal note our society is going to hell.

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Cleveland and Chicago got their hometown players in James and Rose. Why couldn’t we get Dwight.

In all honesty, I’d rather have Dwight over LeBron or Wade. He’s Younger, and plays arguably and historically the most important position in the NBA.

I wish he wanted to play here in 2012. Him in Atlanta instantly makes us Top 4 in the league

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Trade Proposal:
[works on NBA trade machine]

We send:
*Josh (valuable / I don’t care what you say!)
*Marv (more valuable than you think)
*Teaguer (Wdsn diminished value)
*Zaza (a Big is a Big)

We get from Chicago:
*Joakim Noah [5]
*kirk Hinrich [1] with exp.
*Luol Deng [cushion if Joe leaves]

This trade is NO more ignorant than others I’ve seen
on this board in the last couple of days.
We get a [1] and a [5] needed plus a *[3]:
*that can be flipped in a trade.
Chi. gets a *Big, + Josh + Marv / age & palatable contract.
**imagine Josh & Rose on the break!***
Plus a young back-up for Rose or trade option.[Teague]
Also shed Hinrich’s contract.

****Contingent on Chicago being in play for LbJ.
or (maybe not)
*****RUMORS*****swirling

Bash on!

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d wade come to atlanta we need u badd will give u joe and his 90mill

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spell check ewwwwww

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Terrell that would be a nice trade for us,and Laimbeer would be my choice

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One more thing, Marvin sucks, he was giving plenty of touches he just couldn’t knock down the open jumper, couldn’t establish post up position without falling, and he couldn’t score on his man consistently nor make a play for others. He did make FTs and lay-ups/dunks (he had to be open of course) it’s kind of like Woodsen, u c it over and over but refuse to admitted it.

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everyone talking bout Joe Johnson leaving the hawks and that he stays he needs to be the 2 option on offense.Who needs a 1st or 2nd option guy if the team is playing as a team? HELLO BOSTON CELTICS

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I wouldn’t lie but signing Josh Childress back and trading for Bosh or a big man sounds good but not involving J- Smooth now thats a run-out! I mean Joe is my dog and I love him as a Hawk but if he wants to leave , I can’t believe I’m actually saying this but, let him go….man that hurted! But seriously a BIGMAN , a real center is the real solution someone who could defend against other centers like Dwight, who was just killing the hawks. Really you shoild think about this if Joe doesn’t have to go, please don’t let him go he just needs that extra help I am telling you because the minute he goes and gets that extra help he might just end as a MVP candidate or maybe even the MVP to come. Please think about all options.

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If Joe Johnson don’t work look towards Harris, Lopez and Childress really miss him….Brooke Lopez is another good blocker and aside Josh he will become much better and Harris plays ball Hawks way and he can handle the ball. Think about it Mr. Sunds, PLEASE!!!!!!!

PG- Devin Harris
SG- Mike Bibby
SF- Josh Smith
PF- Al Horford
C- Brooke Lopez

BENCH

PG- Jeff Teague
SG- Jamal Crawford
SF- Josh Childress/Maurice Evans
PF- Marvin Williams/Randolph Morris
C- Jason Collins/Joe Smith

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PG Rafer Alston/Mike Bibby
SG Dwyane Wade/Jamal Crawford
SF John Salmons/Marvin Williams
PF Chris Bosh/Udonis Haslem
C Al Horford/Antonio McDyess

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So…anyone what do you really think about my squad?

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