Atlanta Hawks: Teague’s Time

Give the man some credit

May 11th, 2010
10:22 pm

First

niremetal

May 11th, 2010
10:24 pm

More importantly, my plan is to let my bosses know how important this story will be so I can get a work trip to Vegas.

If you’re going to Vegas, you might want to hold your cards closer to your vest than that, MC

Bryce IV

May 11th, 2010
10:39 pm

I know this has nothing to do with this blog post, but are my eyes deceiving me? The Celtics are destroying the Cavaliers in the Cavs own home court. That kind of makes me with the Hawks would have been matched up against Cleveland in the second round, rather than Orlando. Cleveland is looking no where near contender-status lately.

Bryce IV

May 11th, 2010
10:40 pm

*wish the Hawks, not with the Hawks

Bryce IV

May 11th, 2010
10:41 pm

Lebron’s 3-14 shooting performance is making Joe Johnson’s game 3 and 4 chokes not look that bad, after all. LOL

fsjr

May 11th, 2010
10:41 pm

I’ll be surprised if Woodson gives Teague any meaningful playing time next season. If Woodson returns, he’ll lobby for another veteran point guard (Bibby’s old and slow) in case Teague faulters and still not develop him. He’ll play the new guy instead.

Section 303

May 11th, 2010
10:43 pm

Will Teague’s nickname still be “Rook” next season?

It will be interesting to see how Teague does. He had his moments, both good and bad, this year. From what I’ve seen, he needs to work on his jumper. He’s fast. He can jump out of the gym. Certainly, he has potential. But, I’m not sure he is even the best player in his family. His younger brother is a stud.

Big Ray

May 11th, 2010
10:56 pm

MC ,

Yes, Teague’s game still looks raw. Was 10 mpg this season (and 10 oddball mpg at that) supposed to do something like that?

I’ll bring back up a quote from Woody that came via either you or Ken Segiura: “I have the luxury of bringing him (Teague) along slowly.”

The guy has been in the league for a year, and he’s still raw. Unless somebody can prove to me where he got great opportunities to prove what he can do and squandered them away , the reason he is still raw is obvious. And summer league is no preparation for real time NBA game play. As I recall, Teague tore up mini-camp last year, and did well in preseason. What’s he going to prove in summer league?

Even if he scores 30 a game and dishes out 15 assists per contest, what will people say? The same stuff they always say: “Summer league is a joke. Summer league is a bunch of NBA wannabe scrubs. Nothing that happens in summer league means anything.”

This year was a waste for a draft pick that ownership and management both had hopes for. Woody-philes can try explaining that even as their hero is marched off the premises. Heh.

The Truth

May 11th, 2010
10:59 pm

If you’ve been watching the Boston-Cavs game, you’ll notice Doc cleared his bench once the win was secured. If this had been the Hawks-Orlando series, Van Gundy would have had his starters playing to the near end regardless of the secured win; this just to run the score up. Yes the Hawks deserved the “Beat-Down” but some of the victory margin was out Van Gundy’s ego.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 11th, 2010
11:00 pm

Nice to see Michael Gearon — the only Hawks owner I have some respect for — has expectations for his team just as high as most of us, and isn’t satisfied with simply increasing the regular season win total.

As for Woody, in the unlikely and unfortunate event that he returns, I’m not holding my breath to see “Teague time” next year. Even if Teague starts, he’ll probably get the Royal Ivey treatment (play until the first timeout, sit on the bench in favor of Bibby or Crawford the rest of the game).

Najeh Davenpoop

May 11th, 2010
11:03 pm

Teague’s game might be raw, but Bibby’s game is nonexistent. I’ll take raw over nonexistent 365 days a week and 7 weeks a month.

Big Ray

May 11th, 2010
11:04 pm

Najeh ,

I read MC’s article and listened to Woody do what he normally does: tell on himself. Give him an A for honesty.

If he returns, then we know that Sund is the looney in town. No GM worth his suit waits until it is utterly too late to let a coach go. The ones that do end up leaving town before the coach does.

Big Ray

May 11th, 2010
11:05 pm

Raw is what happens when you don’t put the heat to the meat. It took Woody 93 games to see what some people saw 2 years ago. Gee, Woody, Bibby is getting older? No way! Who saw that coming?

Mystikal

May 11th, 2010
11:07 pm

Good news, Teague is going to get the nod next season. Sure we’d all have loved to see that sooner and have him developed for this past playoffs, but in the words of Woody, “It is what it is.” At least this off season is starting off with some good news.

What????

May 11th, 2010
11:08 pm

Exit: Woodson, Bibby, Mo Evans

Enter: Avery Johnson, Travis Outlaw, Brendan Heywood, and A.J Price (gotta snatch him from Indy, next Mo Williams for sure)

Draft: Gordon Heyward or Gani Lawal

Re-Sign: Joe Johsnon

GET ER’ DONE SUND!

Lineup/depth chart (15 players)

Jeff Teague>>>>A.J Price
Joe Johnson>>>Jamal Crawford
Gordon Heyward>>>Travis Outlaw, Marvin Williams, Mario West
Josh Smith>>>>>Zaza/Travis Outlaw/Randolph Morris
Al Horford>>>>>Brendan Heywood/Jason Collins

We can win a title with this (Coupled with the right coach). Some of you are making too many changes to a 53 win squad. Half of it is nonsense/impossible moves. Be realistic please. PG was a huge problem. With Price and Teague you get twp big PG’s Teague at 6′2 and Price at 6′3 and poth play solid D and can stay in front of their man. With a new coach we wont have to worry about that stupid switching anymore. Gordon Heyward gets the start because he’s a beast pure shooter and More athletic/coordinated than Marvin. He will space the floor for us. Teague needs to dominate he ball and keep it out of JJ’s hands. He just moves too slow (it’s so annoying, but this might be b/c of
Woodson) he just needs to catch and finish quickly. I see Teague turning into a combination of Tony Parker and Rajon Rondo (somwhere in between).

Price is an exellent shooter who can play off the ball with the second unit since Jamal is at his best with it in his hands. Price is a good Ball handler as well. All of the Wings will be neede in the future (i’m assuming LeBron will stay in the East). We also have size up front with Heywood and others.

The Truth

May 11th, 2010
11:09 pm

Since the upcoming draft window is 7-weeks, we should be able to read the tea leaves within the next 1-3 weeks. If no action has been made by then (God forbid), that means Woody will likely return as HC.

fayncdawg

May 11th, 2010
11:10 pm

THIS WHY WE NEED DOC RIVERS! THE HAWKS MUST GET HIM! IF DOC CAN MAKE WILD CHILD RONDO INTO A GREAT PG, HE CAN DO THE SAME FOR TEAGUE! HECK< I THINK HE COULD HAVE MADE AC LAW INTO A GREAT PG!

fayncdawg

May 11th, 2010
11:12 pm

AND RONDO WAS (AND ON OFFENSE STILL IS) VERY VERY RAW!

hawksfan

May 11th, 2010
11:19 pm

teague may be raw but he is oozing with potential. he can get to the rim at will and either finish or dish, stay in front of every pg in the league (its a pg league now), jump out of the gym, block shots for his size, pass very well….the only thing he needs to work on is his jump shot. However, his jumpshot was very effective in college. i think his jumpshot will come along when he gets more min and more shooting oppurtunities, in that he wont have to worry about missing and getting benched. Here are so valid comparisons to what teague’s athleticism and potential can equate to:
1. Monta Ellis- Hybrid 1,2 can jump out of the gym like teague.
2. way, way, way, way, way, way miniature version of dwyane wade- im not by any means saying Teague will be half as good as wade, but i am saying that aside from the height diffrence and wades consistent jump shot, there are tons of similarities between the two from an athletic and ability standpoint.
3. Jerryd Bayless- Hybrid 1,2 extremely athletic as with teague. undersized.
4. Steve Francis- Hybrid 1,2 same game, same abilities, both can score.

Mystikal

May 11th, 2010
11:23 pm

Big Ray, i’m with you. When did Teague get a real shot. Coming into the game for 2 minutes at a time, before the half or in clean up duty is not going to help anyone. He was usually in the game with the second unit or playing against the other teams bench. There were plenty of opportunities (against quicker guards) where he could have made a difference with his speed. Rondo went through his growing pains on a veteran team, but he got better by playing. I hope Teague hasn’t gotten too gun shy; afraid to mess up for Woody might yank him.

Mystikal

May 11th, 2010
11:30 pm

MC,
Teague was drafted @ 19. I believe Rondo was drafted @ 21, and he too only stayed in school 2 yrs. No Rondo didn’t come out the gate gunning, but he played (be it on a bad team) and got better cause he had the opportunity. Who knows he may have been good out of the gate, but he had no one around them so who knows.

mike

May 11th, 2010
11:37 pm

can we sign LeBron now that he is one foot out the door in cleveland?.. imagine the athleticism- LBJ, Jsmoove, Al horford, teague and crawford! Can we afford him if Joe leaves? Hip hop capital, black hollywood, etc whats not for a guy like LeBron not to like about ATL?

Mystikal

May 11th, 2010
11:37 pm

I really hope Woody goes, for the benefit of the team. Woody did a wonderful job helping the team get better every year, but he has no offensive philosophy. Just letting Joe and Crawford iso 70% of the time causes everyone else to be so stagnate. I was not shocked that we couldn’t score in the magic series. Aside from getting Crawford, nothing changed from when we got swept by Cleveland last year. There was no floor spacing, no ball movement, no post threatt, and we were predictably easy to defend. For that reason, I believe we need a new coach to break us out of that mentality. Oh, and the fact that no one listens to Woody anymore, anyway.

fayncdawg

May 11th, 2010
11:40 pm

Mike, I haven’t checked yet, but they were getting hammered by Boston last I checked! Is it over?

Ramon

May 11th, 2010
11:42 pm

Sorry, but I can understand Woody’s approach. Gearon doesn’t know much about basketball to start (the same way he doesn’t know anything about hockey —lol). If you have a corvette that’s been driving pretty good. Its not a champion car yet, but its closer to being a champion than it is to not making the cut, you wouldn’t want to pass them keys to an inexperienced talented young driver when you have an experienced drive who has more wisdom than majority of the field.

Ramon

May 11th, 2010
11:45 pm

Teague got a real shot in the games he started, but looked scared. Majority of the time Teague looked more scared than anything. You never seen Paul look scared half way through his rookie year. I’m not saying Teague won’t be a great point guard (I love his game). But I don’t think he was truly ready to lead this first unit even part of the time.

doc

May 11th, 2010
11:46 pm

i guess the operative word is what is raw and how does raw become seasoned … by playing. the kid in milwaukee was raw but able to deliver some mercurial plays as his season wore on. maybe teague would have done something similar. didnt the kid drafted one spot ahead of him do fairly well, too?

MC we have seen woody give no respect to “rooks” for too long to not have seen this coming. we all did, at the beginning of the season. woody delivered in spite of his early season protestations. finally why didnt woody se what we did as bibby aged so in front of our eyes? i still think he will be the most over paid individual for what we got out of him in the end, even more so than speedy who never played. we have paid him about 30 mil and counting this far for two+ years work. throw in another 11 mil or so for the next two years with declining production. hmmm.

Woodys No Goody

May 11th, 2010
11:47 pm

This Woody Watch stinks! Get it over with and let him go!

Najeh Davenpoop

May 11th, 2010
11:47 pm

“If you have a corvette that’s been driving pretty good. Its not a champion car yet, but its closer to being a champion than it is to not making the cut, you wouldn’t want to pass them keys to an inexperienced talented young driver when you have an experienced drive who has more wisdom than majority of the field.”

I’d rather have a talented, inexperienced young driver than an 80-year-old blind senile driver.

It would be an entirely different story if the Hawks had a competent point guard ahead of Teague. Somehow I don’t think Bibby’s 9 points and 4 assists a game on 41% shooting were a huge improvement over what Teague would have provided.

boiler up

May 11th, 2010
11:47 pm

I don’t know all of the technacalities of the finances but I’ll tell u this… Bring in a coach who will set standards and players who will play by those. Sund has his hands full more then we think. I think it’s a nightmare behind the scenes. I gotta be honest about Smith.. He’s electrifying to watch at times but he is incredibally selfish at times. Johnson need another scoring forward that can shoot 21 feet out… Please be smart and don’t make drastic moves that will be another set back. Crawford is great on and off the floor and play’s hard at all times..

Ramon

May 11th, 2010
11:49 pm

Najeh, Bibby was the exclusive reason for the Hawks being top in the league in fewest turnovers.

northcyde

May 11th, 2010
11:54 pm

All I know, is that I would bet that M. Cunningham saw a lot more of Teague in practice, than anyone on this board. Ad if MC says that he’s “raw”, then I’ll tend to believe that.

But I refuse to hype Teague up like he’s the answer, before he proves that he’s the answer to our neverending PG search. Right now, I don’t see it, but I hope he proves me wrong.

Teague . . just give us 9 pts . . 5 asst . . 3 rebs . . 1 stl . . 41% FG

I could live with that in your debut season as a starter.

TheAntiMe

May 11th, 2010
11:58 pm

Play the Wheel of Fortune slots, MC. They rock!

The Truth

May 11th, 2010
11:58 pm

I think the Hawks are going about transitioning Teague into the starting PG position the wrong way. Teague (like any player) should not be anointed the position, he should earn it. That is way the Acie Law experiment did not work. He was proclaimed the Hawks PG future before he proved himself. As a result, it took the hunger out of him so he showed no drive to take it from Bibby. So he played the position as though he was entitled to have it.

lewis

May 11th, 2010
11:58 pm

Ramon,

That’s because he never did anything with the ball.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 12th, 2010
12:01 am

“Najeh, Bibby was the exclusive reason for the Hawks being top in the league in fewest turnovers.”

Bibby was also the exclusive reason the Hawks were middle of the pack in defensive efficiency despite having above average defenders starting at every other position, and the exclusive reason why this team employed the switching defense.

I’d gladly live with a couple more turnovers per game if it meant the Stephen Currys and Brandon Jennings of the world weren’t guaranteed 30 points every time they played the Hawks.

RTh1974

May 12th, 2010
12:04 am

Jeff Teague is a raw talent, true enough, so was Evans in Sacramento, what about Jennings from the Bucks? If Teague is the future, the future is here, we losing a coach that has taken the Hawks as far as he can, Thank you Woody, u did your best from all the crap Billy Knight drafted (AC Law, Sheldon Williams, Josh Childress, Marvin Williams, Solomon Jones, Salim Stoudamire, Royal Ivey, and who are Viktor Sanikidze and Cenk Akyo, the Hawks drafted them) All drafted by Billy Knight, none of these players have made a impact on a NBA team, its not ALL Woodson fault, but gets the blame cause Knight ran away from the team.

northcyde

May 12th, 2010
12:04 am

Yep . . good ol Jamal Crawford. Shot 35% FG in the playoffs, and didn’t play a lick of defense, but man . . he does play hard every night.

LOL . . . ( rolling eyes )

As bad as he shot in the Milwaukee series, he even shot worse in the Orlando series. But people will diss Smoove, but hype him up . . . simply because he plays fast . . not because he’s plays efficiently.

I need one of those “beat a dead horse” cartoons. This is a horse that I’ll beat to death.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 12th, 2010
12:04 am

I’ll say it again — it’s not like I think Teague would have been some amazing superstar if he had played. He would have probably gone through his growing pains the same way Rajon Rondo did in Boston his first two years (he was worse than Teague on a per-minute basis his rookie year). I just think Bibby was that bad for most of the season and in the playoffs.

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
12:10 am

Michael:

C’mon now…yes he is as raw now as when we drafted him.
But Wdsn wasted his yr.
If he had played meaningful minutes all yr. long he would
not be raw today.
Not saying he’d be an emerging all-star the “raw” would be
worn off.

Mystikal

May 12th, 2010
12:11 am

If Woody doesn’t get his walking papers by the end of May, this is going to be a painfully long summer!

Mystikal

May 12th, 2010
12:19 am

This years’ draft has plenty of size, which is a rarity now. I’d love to see us trade up and a center to develop. Everyone is in agreement we need a true center in the middle and than move Horford to PF and blah blah… No one has any suggestions where said center is coming from. There just aren’t that many bigs to go around, that is why so many are drastically overpaid(Okafor/Tyson Chandler). Plus, we still haven’t turned the corner as far as free agents wanting to come here so we have to be pro-active. Does Sund need a talent scout, I can make his summer a lot easier??

Melvin

May 12th, 2010
12:23 am

Aint no way Sund will rehire Woody after Gearon threw him under the bus in MC article. Gearon just made Sund decision for him. If Sund extend Woodson contract, then guess who head is on the chopping block (hint, it ain’t Woody’s)?

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
12:26 am

[On Teague still being 'Raw'/ due to lack of experience]

“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” [Will Rogers]

northcyde

May 12th, 2010
12:29 am

And let’s be real about the Woody – Teague situation. Woody was in the last year of his contract. Without the job security of an extension, why would Woody take a chance on Teague to give him extended minutes?

Woody was trying to win games, not develop young talent like he did with Smoove, Chill, and Marvin. If Woody believed that playing Teague would help him win more games, he probably brings him along a little faster.

No job security + wanting to win games + not believing that Teague could help him this year + allowing Bibby/Jamal to play a scoring 1 = Teague riding the pine all but 5 – 10 min a night

rusty

May 12th, 2010
12:30 am

rusty

May 12th, 2010
12:09 am
woody has to go. he made horrible substitions,would not play his bench,refused to bench mavin or
bibby,let joe run the team amuck with his dribbling & ball hogging shutting down all ball movement &player movement,had no control of js.,had no offensive plays we never get easy shots,ran that horrible switching defense creating horrible mis matches for us & pulling our big men away from the boards.must have hated teague & joe smith,got beat by sorry teams like the nets,knicks & toronto.
after our great start our season went downward just like what happened last year,showed favoitism
to certain player & treated others like crap,never made changes or adjustments during games or between games,had to the stubborn coach in the nba,vever had any set plays,never seen a team who had a harder time getting the ball in bounds. he has to GO teague never got a chance. woody was always standing behind him with an axe. was woody jealous of him or what
.

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
12:33 am

Ramon v Najeh:

Not only do you want a young fella drivin that vette,
You had best put us, ahem, older fellers in a truck,
so we can sit up high & see the road. Plus if we run
in the ditch, we can just run right back out again.

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
12:34 am

I’m not 80 but I’m gainin’ on it!

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
12:41 am

Najeh, I’m not saying Teague wouldn’t have done well. But given the circumstances, you can’t really blame Woody for not playing him 18 min pg. The team won 53 games, when majority of these bloggers guessed at most it would be 48. Playing Teague, JJ, and Crawford would’ve been giving away too much size to continually run with that lineup. I wished he would’ve played Teague a little more. But as I said, you can’t really blame him for that. Not when you have two players on the team who have both started over 500 games at the point guard position.

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
12:41 am

nc – Don’t you think it was made clear to him what Mr. Gearon
just made public? These guys do talk, don’t you reckon.
I think Wdsn knew perfectly well the owners + Mr. Sund’s
intentions were to play Teague.
The man’s just stubborn as a mule.

northcyde

May 12th, 2010
12:59 am

True Grandad.

But like Ramon said. This team was rolling for most of the year, only playing bad in short stretches. So while they may have wanted to see Teague more, they also wasn’t going to mandate that Woody do it, and possibly mess up a good thing.

For a while there, Woody wasn’t playing Teague at all. So maybe the compromise with Sund and the owners, is that he’d try to work him 5 – 10 minutes a night, mainly if we’re ahead in the game in the 2nd quarter.

Woody is hardheaded, and I think a little superstitious. He doesn’t like change. And if something is working, that’s what he’ll roll with.

Big Ray

May 12th, 2010
1:01 am

MC ,

“it certainly can’t have anything at all to do with being 21-years old, playing two years of college ball and being drafted outside the lottery.”

Did I say that had nothing to do with it? That’s what we had with Teague at the beginning of the season. My question is are you saying Teague still looks raw, and why does he still look raw after a year in the league? And how about some more quotes from Woody:

1) “I don’t have to rush Teague. Bibby and Jamal have carried the load at point.”

2) “It’s tough on rookies when you don’t play a whole lot of minutes.”

3) “I thought he played pretty good for a guy who doesn’t get a lot of minutes.”

Just sayin’….

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
1:03 am

Lol @ Big Ray and MC’s spitting contest, great debates are the major thing that makes people love sports!

Big Ray

May 12th, 2010
1:14 am

Northcyde ,

Some people will always speak without thinking. No way is Teague the automatic answer. I’d even like to get another young pg in here for both competition, and as a future option. Nevermind the still blindingly obvious fact that we should not even be having this discussion about pgs…talk about your equine carcasses…

If Teague becomes a starter next year, I have a hard time not seeing him put up the numbers you said would suffice (9 pts/5ast/3rb/1stl/41%FG). If he can’t, then ship his butt outta here quick.

I said late in the season that I understood why Woody kept him under wraps the way he did. I agree with the idea that Woody is superstitious and uneasy about any sort of change.

But his methods of getting us to 53 wins did nothing for us in the playoffs. Our #3 seed was worth nothing as we struggled mightily against a undermanned Milwaukee team and then got Rodney King-ed in the second, to the tune of an NBA record.

How did Woody’s magical “Jamal and Bibby handled the load at the pg spot” do in the playoffs? Or is that NOT Jamal that you’re burning in effigy?

That’s not to say that Teague would have saved the day. We had more problems than just that. We had no answer for Josh’s untimely lack of effort/focus/intensity, we had no answer for Joe Johnson’s suckage, we had all kinds of issues. But it might have been nice to have an option at pg.

We also had two veteran bigs on the bench that we didn’t use (But RandMo gets to play? LOL!). It was jacked up all the way around.

Big Ray

May 12th, 2010
1:15 am

Ramon ,

It’s fun. He ain’t afraid to engage, and I don’t back off easily. He IS the beat writer, I’m just a fan armed with an opinion.

Simpdawg

May 12th, 2010
1:16 am

Why is Rick Sund contemplating whether or not to resign Mike Woodson? Really, that’s why this franchise has a loser mentality. Rick Sund should have met with Mike Woodson today to tell him the Hawks plan to move in another direction with their head coach. Thanks for the memories, but you’ve coached your last game with this team!!!

Big Ray

May 12th, 2010
1:17 am

But like Ramon said. This team was rolling for most of the year, only playing bad in short stretches. So while they may have wanted to see Teague more, they also wasn’t going to mandate that Woody do it, and possibly mess up a good thing.

Gotta give them credit for that. Mark Cuban would have done something crazy. Guaranteed.

Big Ray

May 12th, 2010
1:21 am

SimpDawg,

We’re assuming that Sund is actually mulling this over. Fact is, we have no idea what he is doing, and I doubt he is sitting around and wondering what he should do. I expect something out of him by the end of the week, though.

Northcyde ,

I get the whole thing about Woody not having the security of an extension. But last I recall, HE signed that 2 year contract. If he wasn’t comfortable, he could have declined. Maybe he told Sund no way, and then when he got home, his wife chased him out of the house with a rolling pin, and told him not to come back until he signed the damn contract.

But he DID sign it. But since so many people keep saying other teams will approach him with job offers, what would he have to worry about, hmmmm? I mean, to hear some people tell it, dude is all that and a bag of chips, so why go around job-scared? I’ve never understood that conflicting argument…

Najeh Davenpoop

May 12th, 2010
1:23 am

“Teague . . just give us 9 pts . . 5 asst . . 3 rebs . . 1 stl . . 41% FG

I could live with that in your debut season as a starter.”

So, in other words, you want him to outperform Bibby.

Because Bibby had 9 points, 4 assists, 2 rebounds, and less than 1 steal on 41% shooting, while playing the worst point guard defense in the league.

Personally I think your expectation for Teague is a little on the conservative side. 12 points, 6 dimes, 1.5 steals and 4 free throw attempts per game on 42% shooting is not unreasonable in my opinion, and I’d expect that scoring average to be 2 or 3 points higher if Joe Johnson is not a Hawk next season.

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
1:32 am

The biggest question is do we trust Sund to successfully replace Woody? It was Sund who was unable to work with McMillan after a couple of seasons (and he’s a pretty good young coach).

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
1:34 am

I think they have already told Wdsn.
They are giving his agent time to work
something out, probably with Philadelphia
which will give him an opportunity for
a graceful departure. In appreciation for
his years of service to the team. (classy)

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
1:41 am

I don’t care so much for stats as:
3-1 or better TO ratio.
continue to shoot FT’s @ 85% or better.
work on his mid-range shot,
[enough to keep the other guy honest]
* MOST IMPORTANT:
Guard the piss oughta the other team’s pt. guard.

Big Ray

May 12th, 2010
1:43 am

Najeh ,

Right on. I’m with you on the expectations for Teague, and I’ll be in line to toast him if he does well, or roast him if he stumbles on his own. But I can definitely go for those numbers.

Grandad ,

Agreed, that would be a classy way to handle things and as fair of a send-off as one could imagine.

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
1:45 am

You have to think though. If they are getting ready to give the team to Teague at the point. That must mean that they KNOW they’re going to still attempt to extend JJ. There’s no way they would want Teague taking over, along with a new SG also. With a new coach, I don’t really see that as being a bad thing. I like the idea of keeping JJ, long as we’re adding to the bench as well.

Reid Adair

May 12th, 2010
1:49 am

It’s time for Mike Bibby to be on the bench. If he can’t take it, then deal him too.

Big Ray

May 12th, 2010
1:57 am

I’d settle for a 2.5-to-1 Assist/turnover ratio, especially in the early going. Maybe even slightly less (2.2-2.5), as 3-to-1 is pretty hard to attain.

Starting NBA pgs who have a less than 3-to-1 ratio :

Tony Parker- 2.11

Mo Williams- 2.12

Brandon Jennings- 2.37

Derrick Rose- 2.14

Chauncey Billups- 2.3

Aaron Brooks- 1.89

Baron Davis- 2.85

Other mentionables (especially young guys) who got significant minutes and/or started at least 25 games:

Darren Collison- 2.11

Ty Lawson- 2.38

Stephen Curry- 1.96

Johnny Flynn- 1.51

Asking Teague to have that kind of ratio is a nice thought, but it’s also asking him to outperform every pg in his draft class, with far less NBA PT under his belt. Just sayin’…

Big Ray

May 12th, 2010
2:01 am

Ramon ,

I have no problems with keeping JJ here for a reasonable price, and under a different coach, with some serious changes to our offensive system.

I am also not convinced that Jeff Teague and Mike Bibby should be the only PGs on our roster. Give yourself options. Bibby is fine as a vet off the bench. He’s steady enough in that role, I think. But why just hand the reins to Teague? What’s wrong with some competition?

Here’s a wild thought: if JJ and his agent are determined to go, try and S&T his butt along with Jamal, to Chicago for Noah and Hinrich. Does that trade make sense for Chicago? They’d HATE to lose Noah, I’m sure. But maybe Joe is just that attractive to them.

Big Ray

May 12th, 2010
2:01 am

Bibby can take it. He’s already been told, as it is.

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
2:11 am

Big Ray, you have to remember Chicago (Paxson) is a hard business man. Do you remember just 3-4 seasons ago when he wouldn’t give away Deng in a package deal for KOBE BRYANT? And that was the only thing that stopped Kobe for being a Bull today. With Brad Miller a free agent. And with him knowing that Rose and JJ alone doesn’t equal anything but a number 5-6 seed. And I may be wrong, but wasn’t it Paxson who shipped Crawford out of Chicago the first time? I say why do any of that when you can sign a PG like Ridnour who is a free agent, or maybe even Felton. Or also, how about making an offer for Will Bynum.

By the way, if the trade would go through, i would attempt a first round pick, Jamal and Marvin trade for Al Jefferson and Ellington (or Brewer). And then I would sign me a new six man and Outlaw also.

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
2:12 am

Bibby already knew that going into this past season that his days were numbered. The question is how did he manage to get SUND (the same GM who’s about to choose the new coach) to give him so much money to return. lol.

Bryce IV

May 12th, 2010
2:25 am

I have to say, I’m not sure who this “Ramon” is or when he started posting on here, but I sure am glad that someone has finally seen the light. This guy’s posts are right on point. I agree completely with just about everything he posts. What amazes me is that almost no one else seems to have noticed the facts of his posts where I find them to be blatantly obvious.

You all act like Bibby is a washed up scrub with no ability at all. Sure, he has his liabilities on the court at this point in his career, but the fact of the matter is that he was the best possible option for Woody to start at PG, and Woody made the right decision starting him over Teague.

Also, you can’t deny that Teague’s minutes were decreased due to his lack of contributions during games. It’s not like this team was the GS Warriors or Sacramento Kings who were way below .500 and trying to look for an identity and develop players, those teams didn’t have much pressure to win. The Hawks have much higher expectations, and as someone has already stated here, the goal was to win by whatever means necessary, and quite frankly, Bibby’s presence on the court aided that cause more than Teague’s did this year, which is why Woody chose to go that route.

Obviously, Teague has much more upside than Bibby, but the Hawks could not afford to gamble with Teague most of the time. Typically, when they tried to gamble and use him, the results were negative and they had to resort back to Bibby or Jamal. Teague needs time to develop, but not all of that development must happen during live games. He could work on developing a consistent jumpshot without playing extensively during games by working during practice and in the offseason. Players can build upon their fundamentals and become NBA ready without starters’ or even role players’ minutes. Developing his jumpshot is one thing which would surely earn him some minutes.

yardbird

May 12th, 2010
2:55 am

Gearon and Sund should not get a pass here! As a season ticket holder, my view is that while Woody’s offense certainly stagnated in the playoffs and was suspect even when successful during the season, the playoff result was 100% predictable. After a 99-85 win in the opener of the 2008-2009 season, the Hawks have been dominated by their division rival, Orlando and primarily Dwight Howard, and management’s only response (aside from a late season prayer to lure Ilgauskus) has been to hope that internal growth from young players (Josh Smith and Al Horford) would overcome that domination. Forgetting that Howard was young and getting better at his game at the same time, and that Howard started with strong advantages physically and in talent. If you can’t win your division and can barely win a regular season game against Orlando, it is irrational to think you can turn the tide in the playoffs when the stakes are higher, notwithstanding the 2007-2008 series against Boston (which we caught by surprise).

Woody did a great job with the talent he had, though I agree with most that his offensive philosophy was suspect and it is time for him to move on and the team to hear a different voice. I wish him well in his future, and expect he’ll learn from the Hawks experience and have success, perhaps greater success, at his next stop. The Hawks should not make any other changes to the team that would likely be a step backward, even in the short term. That means resign Joe Johnson (preferably at a near max salary for only three years, as his production is clearly sliding over the last two years) or try to sign and trade him to a contender to get significant value in return, and not simply letting him walk unless that’s unavoidable. Elevate Teague’s role and either bring back (especially if Joe goes) or get value for Josh Childress. Most importantly, design the team to win our division before we worry about Boston and Cleveland: find some talented “bigs” to compete enough with Howard so Al and Josh can overpower Lewis, Gortat, Bass, etc.

Before Sund takes Woody to the guillotine (sp?), put a roster on the floor that might not get so demoralized from an inability to compete with Orlando, and get real, Joe Smith and Jason Collins do not qualify! I think the hopelessness had a lot to do with the debacle that this playoff series turned into.

truthspitter

May 12th, 2010
3:19 am

I saw all but maybe 6 games this year, and Teague had 2 good showing that was early season against the Lakers and the meaningless last game against the Cavs. I wonder if it is confidence or that he needs the ball in his hands a lot, or the fact that Ish Smith played the point at Wake more than Teague. I have my ?’s about Teague and I am not convinced that he is a starter a PG in the NBA. On the other hand, other than Wall I don’t think there is a draftable PG in this year draft with Teague’s ability. So, it was a good pick if Teague was coming out this year he would be the 2nd PG taking behind Wall and a lottery pick.

Rolando

May 12th, 2010
3:28 am

This is just plain disrespectful.

http://bit.ly/cC5MrH

People need to get over the Joe Johnson bashing already. The guy is human and was just caught up in the heat of the moment. Think about it, how would you like it if someone did this to you?

Joe

May 12th, 2010
4:23 am

Imagine if Milwaukee had Woody? Jennings would have never got in games! Fire him!!! FIRE WOODY NOW!!!

bumyoon

May 12th, 2010
4:51 am

Rolando… only responding to your post as it’s right above mine…. JJ deserved the bashing after his scrub play in 5 previous games as a #1 player for the team. Besides, it was painful to watch a single player dominate the ball for 10-15 seconds only to see him throw up bricks or turn it over when it finally got out of his hands.

If Woodson comes back, I doubt I’ll be watching the Hawks next season – it’ll be the repeat of the same thing: Hawks will win with pure talent, not because of game plan. Then they will enter the playoffs only to get blown out by a team with an actual plan and the desire to win a game. What I want to know is why Woodson kept the same crappy defense that led to wide open treys for Orlando the last three games.

bumyoon

May 12th, 2010
4:55 am

one more thing. NO team will EVER WIN a CHAMPIONSHIP with JJ as their #1 player.

jboi

May 12th, 2010
6:19 am

i love how everyone is pointing fingers now..bunch of fair weather fans. we arguably the 3rd best team in the east. we just match up horribly against the magic. we swept the celtics in the reg season. and they’re going to the conf finals. we’re still pretty darn young team. and Teague will be ready next year.. yall need to take a chill pill

Maxx

May 12th, 2010
6:23 am

Big Ray- The other young PG we need is C.J Watson

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
7:06 am

Bumymoon, people said the same thing about Chauncey Billups and Rasheed. They also said the same about Garnett (said he was too unselfish – Magic) and Paul Pierce. They said all four of them will never win a Championship with them leading the team. Now there’s not one of those four who I couldn’t see JJ being a better player than, and I can’t see Smoove or Horford coming close to matching their impact.

O'Brien

May 12th, 2010
7:11 am

First, let me be clear. I dont know if Teague is the answer or not, and I dont know if he is going to be a star or not. But the only way to find out is to give him consistent PT. If he struggles, then find somebody else who can do the job.

@Ramon,

“Big Ray, you have to remember Chicago (Paxson) is a hard business man. Do you remember just 3-4 seasons ago when he wouldn’t give away Deng in a package deal for KOBE BRYANT?”

I think you’re wrong. Kobe has a no trade clause, and if I’m not mistaken, he said he would NOT go to the Bulls if they could not keep Deng. So Paxson was unable to work out a deal to get Kobe and keep Deng.

I’m with you though. How did Bibby convince Woody and Sund to give him a 3 year deal when nobody was offering him 3 years? I would have preferred a 2 years, $14 mil, 3rd year team option (like what Andre Miller got from Portland), instead of the 3 years, $18 mil.

@Northcyde,

Bibby gave us 9 pts, 4 assists, and 2 rebounds. If I get those numbers from Teague, I will be ok with that. Because his defense will be better, he will push the ball more, and he will penetrate and get guys easy shots. Something Bibby doesn’t do.

“Woody was in the last year of his contract. Without the job security of an extension, why would Woody take a chance on Teague to give him extended minutes?” northcyde.

Why? Because he should have known that the GM and the guy who pays his salary wants to see Teague get minutes. He should have realized that Bibby was old, and a major liability (especially on defense), and Teague needed the minutes to se if hee was able to contribute or not.

How come most of us bloggers could see that Bibby was done, but Woody couldn’t? How come most of us bloggers could see that we will need other PG options in the playoffs besides Bibby, but Woody could not?

Although I should not be surprised at Woody. The same man who said “said “You could have never told me we would struggle to score points”

Are you serious Woody? There were about 15 games in the regular season where we struggled to score 19 points in the fourth quarter against playoff teams. But you didn’t know we would struggle to score points once we play these teams in the playoffs?

I look forward to Rick Sund’s comments as to why Woody wont be retained.

terrell

May 12th, 2010
7:33 am

Why does Woody care if it’s Teague’s time next year? He wont be here. lol! At least I hope he’s not. And I’m sure Teague does too.

terrell

May 12th, 2010
7:36 am

Woodson’s always talking about player development after the season is over or during the summer. Too late now fool.

terrell

May 12th, 2010
7:41 am

Idk about firing Woodson, but keeping JJ? Joe wont know what to do in a real offense. This iso shi. is history.

Joey

May 12th, 2010
8:04 am

Oh, MC, I thought rookie point guard are supposed to sit for games at the time, finally get to play , then get jerked out and glared at, or chewed out in front of eveyrone as he dejectedly goes back to sit. Then sit for 5 more games while the announcers joke about him being “in the coaches doghouse.”

Bet Celtic fans are glad that’s not Doc River’s blueprint for rookie point guards . . .

richbrave

May 12th, 2010
8:04 am

Staying away from all the finger pointing and blame game. Been down that road way-y-y too much with the WIZARDS. It’s played out for me.

Section 303

May 12th, 2010
8:11 am

Rolando, I can’t get to your link (its blocked here at school), but whatever it is, it is not disrespectful enough. Not planning on getting over Joe Johnson’s comments until he apologizes. Whether you agree with that or not…really don’t care.

As for Woodson…the Spirit needs to just fire him already. No need letting this dangle in the wind when everyone knows Woodson is fired. Mike Woodson is a good man. Hope he does well where ever he happens to end up. Even though I do not want him back, I think he is being used as a cop out for this series.

When players do not try and do not listen to the coach, the blame should fall on the players. It amazes me how so many will not hold them accountable for any of this.

Dap01

May 12th, 2010
8:14 am

Bibby would be a good 3rd string guard. Teague should start next year and we should have a good defensive PG behind him. Bibby is a spot up shooter with no other skills.

If Woody is rehired, Phillips will be empty next year.

DP

May 12th, 2010
8:16 am

I said before the season that I thought Jeff Teague’s development was critical to how far the Hawks could go. It is obvious that they had to have a point guard that could stay in front of somebody on defense and actually play point guard on offense instead of throwing the ball to Joe Johnson and camping on the 3 point line like Bibby. I doubt Teague was ready but think Woodson should have given him at least 20-25 minutes a game for the first half of the season to see if he could play, even at the cost of a few wins. Because it should have been clear that this team’s upside was limited without a point guard who could run the offense or guard anybody.

Joey

May 12th, 2010
8:17 am

You’re right Big Ray. Sometimes it just one matchup that swings a playoff game or series (see Rajon Rondo vs Mo Williams). What if Teague could have stayed in front of Jameer Nelson with his quickness, and the Hawks hold on to take game 2 in Orlando. Think they would lose by 30 at home two days later? Probably not, with Nelson’s confidence shaken and the Hawks sky high.

Just don’t understand why Woody didn’t try it. After a couple of games, he really had nothing to lose, right?

Westurd

May 12th, 2010
8:23 am

I know this is a Teague article, but I would give Woody a standing ovation for the work he has done here. It has been a painful and frustrating process, but even he has to realize it is time for both parties to part ways and move foward. Kudos Woody!

True Hawks Fan

May 12th, 2010
8:34 am

You can say what you want about the Atlanta Spirit Group, but you got to like Michael Gearon Jr.’s approach with the team. He really is working methodically to building a dynasty. He is sticking to sound principles. Read the article, “Sund takes time on Woodson, Gearon expresses disappointment” by Michael Cunningham. There is hope for the future guys. Hold your heads up high.

Section 303

May 12th, 2010
8:39 am

Dap01, I’ll be there, even if Woody comes back. So, the place won’t be empty.

ILL-logical

May 12th, 2010
8:41 am

Well, the fat lady has sung and it is time to assess the situation.
First, thank you Mr. Woodson for your service. It was not all a christal staircase but you made millions of dollars and will coach again,someday and somewhere else.
Second, thank you Mr. Johnson for your service. Hope you find succes with your next team but you have worn out your welcome here.

What is left is a financially and intellectually challenged organization that allowed the current state of affairs to grow and fester until it all was exposed in the most embarrassing display of any NBA playoff series in history.

And this group is deciding the future of th franchise.

Art

May 12th, 2010
8:51 am

There is no question, absolutely no question if Woody is coming back, Woody is done here in Atl. You may ask how does this random person know? Well I sat down in near the court on Monday game and two things happened

1) MR. Highlight Reel himself was talking to Jerome (The Bus) Bettis at halftime, saying 1) The team has no heart, 2) Woody is already done, after the Bucks series, the Hawks had to show something against Orl which they did not. I believe that it will be told to Woody this week or next monday

2) Rutherford Sydel (sp?) was saying the exact same thing. A little more taticalfully not as blut but the same message.

So the conversation on pro/con Woody really does not matter, it is already decided. He is done. So any talk about Teague time is shortsided because a new coach might not like the cut of Teague’s jib (a little old school)

Completely different topict but I think that Lebron’s trouble actually helps joe in free agency and helps with Atl fans if joe decides to come back.

NC Braves Fan

May 12th, 2010
8:55 am

The handwriting is on the wall with Woodson, based on Gearon’s comments. The team is not on the same page, and now we know that Woody is not on the same page with Sund & and the ASG.

You can’t unify the team with a fractured management structure. And you don’t say what Gearon said if you think you can correct the differences between Woody & the ASG.

That said, thanks Coach Woodson. You did a great job getting the team to where it stands now — which is a long ways from where it started!

i_am_soulstar

May 12th, 2010
9:03 am

Perimeter defense is one of the Hawk’s biggest flaws. Can we please keep JJ?? This will instantly improve our perimeter defense, eliminate the need for the switching defense, and overall, just make us a better team.

Summer league means nothing. NOTHING!!! Nevertheless, good luck Teague!

And we also must have a coach that can manage Josh’s personality. He’s matured, but he still sometimes has mental lapses. At the All-Star break, I thought we were all past the maturity issues with Josh, but perhaps he fooled us all.

Everytime Josh doesn’t get back on defense because he’s arguing with a ref, I die a little inside.

i_am_soulstar

May 12th, 2010
9:07 am

If we have and Teague and JJ, this will instantly improve our perimeter defense. And I’m sure Bibby will be great off the bench.

I’m not so sure I want a center, because that means moving Josh to small forward which creates another match up problem. He’s a great help defender, but he struggles guarding anything on the perimeter with handles. Horford’s guarding Howard wasn’t the problem in the Magic series if you recall.

How many times was Pietrus wide open in Game 4????? I came to the game on crutches and still almost got kicked out for “voicing my displeasure.”

Section 303

May 12th, 2010
9:08 am

That’s NBA insider “Art” coming at you, everybody!

doc

May 12th, 2010
9:10 am

richie, i said last week that this team reminds me very much of the wiz down to the question of whether to sign jj or not comparing it to the wiz going with agent zero. with the latter since he was coming off a potentially career ending injury it was absolutely stupid, with jj it is a bit more less clear since he only has a lot of milage with no obvious injury.

i think you give the big contracts to the guys under 25 and hold back on the guys approaching 30 for better results unless they are named shaq or kobe like. simple formula probably too simple but there is more evidence of this practice working against you than for you.

doc

May 12th, 2010
9:14 am

i meant the practice of giving money to the older guy is working against you most times.

I blog with more Heart

May 12th, 2010
9:22 am

DP

May 12th, 2010
8:16 am
I said before the season that I thought Jeff Teague’s development was critical to how far the Hawks could go. It is obvious that they had to have a point guard that could stay in front of somebody on defense and actually play point guard on offense instead of throwing the ball to Joe Johnson and camping on the 3 point line like Bibby. I doubt Teague was ready but think Woodson should have given him at least 20-25 minutes a game for the first half of the season to see if he could play, even at the cost of a few wins. Because it should have been clear that this team’s upside was limited without a point guard who could run the offense or guard anybody.

thank you , for the CURRENT roster to play well they have no choice but to play uptempo

terrell

May 12th, 2010
9:22 am

Northcyde said “like he developed Smoove, Chills, and Marvin” LMFAO!.

Mike is Back

May 12th, 2010
9:27 am

MC, the one thing I can say about Teague…despite his struggles…he showed he is a true point guard with quickness and the ability to dish the rock. I remember you mentioned in a blog about the one the insane passes he can made this season. He showed he had some talent in the limited time he had.

My thing is Woody had him out there playing with one hand tied behind his back…BECAUSE HE WAS NEVER GIVEN CONTROL OF THE OFFENSE…HE ALWAYS HAD TO DEFER…Even under those circumstance he was able to compete and maintain his focus.

Given the results, Woody was getting…ITWASN’T LIKE HE WAS TAKING A BIG RISK. LOL

terrell

May 12th, 2010
9:34 am

So why didn’t Gearon let BK fire Woody the 1st time around? Nothings changed. Still no offensive philosophy, still switching on defense, still Iso-Joeing, still allowing Josh to shoot, still starting Marvin, still benching the bench, still no player development, still pulling young players after 1 mistake, still folding his arms, etc……

Dap01

May 12th, 2010
9:37 am

Section 303: I will too.

Section 303

May 12th, 2010
9:53 am

terrell, I have the same questions about Gearon. I give him credit for coming out and talking to the media, though. And, I like that he did not try and rationalize that we should all be happy because the Hawks won 53-games. He did not hide the fact that this Orlando series was a complete failure.

That’s a refreshing attitude when you consider how John Shurholtz used to spin that the city should be happy the Braves won their crappy division after each one of their playoff flameouts. His attitude drove me nuts and pretty much drove me away from the Braves.

Buddy Grizzard

May 12th, 2010
10:00 am

Hugely important story because Bibby is untradeable so there is no way to go out and get somebody who can help. Signing Bibby to a 3 year deal at his age was the biggest mistake of Sund’s tenure. The only thing that saves our ass at the PG position is if Teague really can play.

C. Moore

May 12th, 2010
10:11 am

Coach Woodson has a problem with playing young guards; There are two gaurds on the Hawks bench who could have helped this team if not now…in the long run for sure!!! Jeff Teague needed a chance! Darren Collison was forced to play because of injury, however he played fantastic for a mediocre Hornets team! Mario West is probably our best defensive guard and provides a spark as a guard who will drive to the hole fearlessly!!! Mike Woodson never developed his players. I am still hoping Randolph Morris gets a chance to play. He can run and just needs some developing!! So many issues with this team!!!

Harpie

May 12th, 2010
10:11 am

Woodson is an idiot, and must go!!!!!!

GoldenRetriever

May 12th, 2010
10:13 am

I knew the way Woody was coaching during the year that Teague wasnt going to get any minutes. Woody felt like BIBBY IS THE GUY NO MATTER WHAT, even if he is 80 years old, Bibby will lead us to the promised land, while Teagues talent gets wasted. For that there will be no additional contracts because if Woody will ruin Teague, he will ruin anyone else. How about the person who was supposed to be starting in place of Marvin Williams. Woody felt that Marvin will start until someone takes a crow bar and prys Marvin out of the starting lineup. Woody is headstrong and once he makes his decisions, those decisions stay with him forever. Its unfortunate but the Hawks could have won the title this year; JUST LOOK AT HOW THE CAVILIERS ARE BEING STOMPED BY BOSTON. WE BEAT BOSTON FOUR STRAIGHT TIMES AND WOULD HAVE FACED THE CELTICS IN THE EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS HAD WE GOTTEN PAST ORLANDO, PROVIDED BOSTON WINS THEIR SERIES WITH THE CAVS WHICH THEY WILL. THE EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS MATCHUP SHOULD HAVE BEEN BOSTON VS. ATLANTA, WITH ATLANTA AS HEAVY, HEAVY FAVORITES TO MAKE IT TO THE FINALS. That matchup is what the city of Atlanta was robbed out of by having Mike Woodsen as our head coach. Mike Woodsen BLOCKED the Atlanta/Boston eastern conference matchup by: #1) not taking Bibby out of the starting lineup and placing him on the bench, starting Teague ahead of him and #2) not taking Marvin Williams (the invisible man) out of the staring lineup and inserting ANBODY ON THE PLANET ahead of the invisible marvin williams in the starting lineup. Those two changes would have made the Hawks World Champs this season and not wasted their 53 wins.

Sautee

May 12th, 2010
10:13 am

northcyde,

About this: “And let’s be real about the Woody – Teague situation. Woody was in the last year of his contract. Without the job security of an extension, why would Woody take a chance on Teague to give him extended minutes?”

Maybe because in Sund’s first interview he clearly stated that player development was an important part of the responsibilities of the head coach?

If YOUR boss says that X is an “important part of your responsibility”, do YOU blithely ignore that?

Woody did, and now he will pay the price. The fact of his lack of job security should have no bearing on whether he actually did the things he was ASKED to do. If his job description included player development and he was “coaching scared” as you say, then he was FAILING to do THAT part of his job.

Perhaps you share Woody’s view that player development is unimportant next to winning games. My view is that you can and should do both. Woody’s view on this is obviously not balanced.

Section 303

May 12th, 2010
10:16 am

Buddy Grizzard, the Hawks can still get a vet PG, if they do not feel Teague will get the job done. And, having Bibby on the team is not all bad. The guy can shoot, handle the ball, and run the offense. So, he can contribute. The bad is his D and how much money he makes. But, if he is the 3rd PG, Bibby can still help the team.

The situation is hardly as desperate as you make it out to be.

S Hawk Fan

May 12th, 2010
10:27 am

I am shocked that we are having to even discuss “if” Woody is back! The fact that Sund is waiting makes no sense to me. It should be real clear that Woody is not coming back and it speaks volumes to me that he can’t make a GOOD and SWIFT decision.
I own my own company and when somebody is that bad of a fit in my business then the longer I keep him or her….. the weaker I look to the other employees. Come on Rick….. tough leaders make tough,or in this case easy, decisions!!
Then the new coach decides whom plays PG!!!!!

GoldenRetriever

May 12th, 2010
10:27 am

We beat the living crap out of the Boston Celtics four straight times in the regular season and no one can tell me that we would have lost to Boston in the Eastern Conference Finals. We would have advanced past Boston into the finals against the Lakers. The finals matchup would have been Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford vs. Kobe Bryant [2 closers for the Hawks vs. 1 closer for the lakers]/ADVANTAGE HAWKS. THE HAWKS WOULD HAVE WON THE NBA TITLE IF MIKE WOODSEN DIDNT PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING. Sent Woodsen packing on a slow boat to China and send Josh Smith along with him.

Mz. Hawkdafied

May 12th, 2010
10:45 am

Teague is/was no longer rook when his rookie season ended on Monday, May 10, 2010, the same day the Hawks were officially eliminated, no decimated out of the playoffs.

Buddy Grizzard

May 12th, 2010
10:50 am

“So why didn’t Gearon let BK fire Woody the 1st time around? Nothings changed. Still no offensive philosophy, still switching on defense, still Iso-Joeing, still allowing Josh to shoot, still starting Marvin, still benching the bench, still no player development, still pulling young players after 1 mistake, still folding his arms, etc……”

The Atlanta Spirit made a behind-the-scenes decision to stop being a complete joke in the national media and get their stuff together a bit. This meant Billy Knight had to go, even though Woody was the one who really deserved to be fired. There is no question Knight deserves vastly more credit than Woody for the Hawks having 53 wins this year.

The Spirit kept Woodson on because they are trying to keep a tight budget. They let him be a lame duck so as not to eat his sallary, and now they can conduct a search for a real coach having let the combination of Woody and this roster go as far as it could.

I really think the Hawks are better off without Johnson as well. Horford and Smith will blossom in a system not based on Joe going one-on-five.

coo coo bird fan

May 12th, 2010
11:07 am

I hear the term basketball IQ all too often these days in reference to the Hawks. That goes right to the heart of the problem, the coach. On offense they play one on one AAU style basketball while the supporting cast stands around and watches. On defense, they run all over the place switching and switching back, and can’t guard anybody. Seems a lil’ backwards to me. A new offensive and defensive philosophy is needed along with a killer attitude adjustment. Maybe Avery Johnson, maybe Thin Van Gundy, or maybe even Drew can do the job. I am a fan nonetheless and will still show up, I’d just like my basketball team to as well.

Navigator

May 12th, 2010
11:11 am

Teague?? This guy wasn’t the top guard in the ACC, so why does this group think he will suddenly be a top guard in the NBA. This is simply a cover up for the ineptitude for drafting players that aren’t the best players available for the position. It’s about time the Hawks bring in a recognized NBA evaluator of talent. Having already passed on an allstar guard (playing in New Orleans), you have to wonder how they wound up with Teague??? Look around for two items in this draft, a center if available and point guard who has recognized talent, not a project.

coo coo bird fan

May 12th, 2010
11:15 am

Lebron will NEVER, lets see did I make that clear enough? NEVER EVER come to Atlanta, dream over. Even though Joe choked in the playoffs, he’s the best free agent available who wants to actually play here. Chris Bosh would be nice if we pony up the money. The key is definately Teague and the draft, w/ some much needed speed at the point and some meat in the middle we can take another step. I have always said 2011 was going to be our year, Atlantas year actually. Braves, Falcons, and with some luck Hawks. Arthur Blank buys the Braves, Falcons after losing in the NFC championship game win super bowl, and Hawks led by big four of Teague, Johnson, Smith, Bosh. Okay I’m awake now, what did I just say?

JEWELL ROLLEN

May 12th, 2010
11:20 am

I’VE HEARD THE QUESTION (790THEZONE) DO WE KNOW IF JEFF TEAGUE CAN PLAY? SEE LAST GAME…24 POINTS AND 14 ASSISTS…YEAH HE PLAY. BUT NOT SITTING NEXT TO WOODY! AND AS FOR WHAT??? GANI LAWAL, ARE YOU ON CRACK! ANY GEN MGR WHO DRAFTS HIM WILL BE FIRED IN 2 YEARS! HE IS FUNDAMENTLY FLAWED…THANK HEWITT FOR THAT!

Gamer

May 12th, 2010
11:24 am

If Teague stay injury free, this kid got game and can make immediate contributions to team..

Every talented player need to be developed..that’s in any sport.

Woody has done alot for this organization..but I’m not sure if Woody have the personality and knowledge to develop players.

Survey Woody’s history since inception as head coach and name on player that Woody develop to push to the next level…NOT ONE,,NANA..

Unless Woody can change from within his own concepts and philosohphies, I don’t see him being the man to take the Hawks to the next level(Eastern Conf.)

I MUS WRITE

May 12th, 2010
11:31 am

Woody is an idiot- it took you 82 games to see that Bibby isnt a starter anymore. Lets not fall for this crap again,the man is clearly trying to save his azz. He should have played Teague alot more during the season.
I dont think I can take another season of Woody and the ISO regime -time for a change.
Teague needs to really work on his jump shot and decision making this summer. Right now he is a liability out there because he is hesitant to shoot and teams sag off of him making it difficul toget the ball to our bigs.
Like I said before horford and smoove are the only 2 players I would definitely keep,Sund should be on the phones now exploring all possibilites to make this team better.

Samuel

May 12th, 2010
11:31 am

WE know the hawks got out coached in the Magic series. Now let Woodson go, find a coach who can demand respect. and the players buy into. The hawks will never have ultimate success without one Superstar. If we keep Joe Johnson- I want him as the second or third go to guy. He’s a quiet guy who is incapable of been a leader on that team…

MustangSalley

May 12th, 2010
11:41 am

Woody should come back because Sund is just as flawed as Woody is. As I mentionied in my blog yesterday, AND IM SORRY TO KEEP BEATING A DEAD HORSE, but Sund had the opportunity to acquire Rafer Alsten and Heidu Terkelu since they both were let go by Orlando last season and RICK SUND PASSED ON ATTEMPTING TO SIGN THOSE TWO. I knew when that happened that the Hawks had made a mistake. The two teams that signed those two guys were Charlotte Bobcats and Toronto Raptors, both teams that will not be winning a title this year. Terkelu and Alsten could have been in Atlanta Hawks uniforms this season helping the Hawks win the NBA championship and you could have signed BOTH OF THEM for just pennies on the dollar. Rafer Alsten played the point so well last year that he helped get the Orlando Magic into the NBA FINALS. Heidu Terkelu is an all-star who is, in my opinion, one of the FIVE MOST TALENTED NBA PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE. Terkelu could have been signed by the Hawks for just pennies on the dollar. Both guys would have lifted the Hawks to the NBA championship. Im tired of writing about this but how could Rick Sund have missed this great opportunity, knowing how badly the Hawks have struggled at point guard and knowing they need the addditional scoring punch to get them over the hump. Terkelu scored at a clip of 18 points a game last season and the combined scoring of Alsten and Terkelu would have added an additional 32 POINTS TO THE Hawks game scoring average. Its unfortunate because the second those two guys were available, I was saying to myself, I wish i was a GM because the Hawks need those two guys and they would make such a huge impact on the Hawks and probably make them the best team in the league. Its too late now because those two will never sign with the Hawks, but they would have done so after last year because both were in need of jobs and the the Hawks were in need of those two players, but Sund felt we will go with the guys who are here and they will develop into superstars. Look at how josh smith punked the hawks by PURPOSELY STOPPING PLAYING (walking down the court taking his time) WHILE THE GAME WAS STILL IN PROGRESS. The Hawks should fined Josh Smith $100,000 for doing that while playing indiferrently without regarding to coaches instructions. Josh is constantly arguing with the refs for not calling fouls on the other team and trying to get out of the fouls that he commits. Josh Smith should also be ordered to take several ANGER MANAGEMENT CLASSES until he learns how to play with the right attitude and play with the right purpose and mindset.

JB

May 12th, 2010
11:42 am

Raw Point guard? Can’t be more raw than Johnson and Bibby.

Marcus

May 12th, 2010
11:43 am

put this in another ajc.com blog, but for some who were clamoring last summer for Ramon Sessions as a free agent, he signed a 4 yr.16 mill offer w/MIN in Sept. ‘09 (leaving MIL after 3 seasons), but MIN coach Kurt Rambis has him languishing on the bench due to rookie PG Johnny Flynn. Very few starts and probably unhappy.
dunno if a trade for Sessions is a viable option at this point…….esp. if we JJ leaves, we elevate Crawford to starting SG, and we have some $$$ to play with.

Marcus

May 12th, 2010
11:49 am

also forgot to add if we draft/trade for a backup SG for Crawford’s eventual departure.
What is going to go down w/Mo Evans? I recall some comments near the end of the reg. season that he wasn’t going to pick up his option for 2010-2011.

maddawg

May 12th, 2010
11:55 am

I wouldn’t resign JJ, agree with the freeing up the money. The best thing this team can do is not resign JJ, do whatever they have to do to move up in the trade and draft DCousins from Kentucky, I don’t know if it is enough or too much value, but I would give up both regular picks in the draft and Marvin W to do it, You would Have your core of Cousins, Horford, Smith, Teague, Crawford, and Money to build around that through free agency, signing another big time shooter from the outside and depth wherever needed

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
11:56 am

Crawford can’t start at SG because he’s never been one who liked to play in a structured offense. Crawford is more valuable when there is a lot of one on one and he can just go and do his thing. Unlike the other Hawks, Crawford has had 4-6 NBA coaches since joining the NBA. Crawford will continue to be great in a sixth man role because it allows him to dominate the ball with the 2nd unit. But that isn’t what the first unit needs. Everyone complains about JJ, but Crawford shot us out more games than Smoove, and about the same number that Joe. In the playoffs, Crawford may have had 2 good games out of ELEVEN. You don’t promote that production to the starting line up.

S Hawk Fan

May 12th, 2010
11:56 am

Anybody that thinks Woody should be back either does not understand sports or just wants to be on a island by themselves! Woody has lost this team!!

Section 303

May 12th, 2010
12:10 pm

S Hawk Fan, who is on here saying Woody should be back? I haven’t read all posts, but I’ve read a lot of them. Have not seen any saying Woody should be back.

I think you must be confused. Yes, there are people saying that Coach Woodson is a good man, did a lot of good things, etc. Do not see anyone saying they think he should be back.

Realsquawk

May 12th, 2010
12:11 pm

It would have done wonders playing him more now because we would have a better idea of what he could contribute. now its kind of up in the air about how well he can produce

maddawg

May 12th, 2010
12:13 pm

Ramon, I totally agree with that and although I did not explain, that is one of the areas I was definitely thinking we would have to sign through free agency, the free agent market us loaded this year, and we could go get a veteran shooting guard to rotate with Crawford at a good price, that along with a big time shooter like Ray Allen would be nice, there is alot you could do if you had Horford and Cousins interchangable at PF and C, and Smith at SF, we would also need someone to rotate with Teague early on, but I think all that would be possible if we did not sign JJ back, traded MW, and gave up two draft picks for one higher pick

Mz. Hawkdafied

May 12th, 2010
12:18 pm

As a paying and devoted fan I want more. I ultimately want to be wowed by a championship banner hanging in Philips Arena aka The Highlight Factory, a division champs banner would be nice too. The LEED banner is okay but let’s get serious now. I’m sick of Atlanta being comedy for the sports world. There are Atlanta native fans out there but the simple fact remains the team is gonna have to earn a devoted following. The performance in this year’s playoffs is not gonna suffice. You gotta do better than that.

Offense sells tickets, defense wins championship. The Hawks were struggling offensively and defensively. Just couldn’t put them together. Please get the team a coach that values offense as well as defense cause when you put them both together that sh%&#t will work more often than not.

AceDawg

May 12th, 2010
12:19 pm

All season, the Hawks needed a better assisting and defending guard. Bibby has been a strong NBA player, but it was clear that Teague has enough upside that he deserved more time on the floor. Crawford should take note too because he’s possibly below average on defense too.

The Woodson Watch Begins | Soaring Down South | An Atlanta Hawks blog

May 12th, 2010
12:23 pm

[...] I fall directly in the middle of this disagreement. If you have followed this blog at all you know that I feel like Teague should have been utilized but given a role. A defensive role, a push the tempo role, or something. The fact is that Teague didn’t fit into Coach Woodson’s iso driven offense very well. He doesn’t have the outside shot like Bibby does which is the only reason someone like Bibby fits. My very big complaint about Teague’s rookie season is that we haven’t a clue going into next season if he has the potential to take over as point guard for this team. He is essentially a rookie all over again although at least this time he will have a summer league to participate in this time around. [...]

Rod from College Park

May 12th, 2010
12:24 pm

“You could have never told me we would struggle to score points,” Woodson said.”

I could have told you that. We struggled last year in the playoffs to score points, we struggled this year in the regular season against good defensive teams, and teams who went to zone. As long as Bibby (this year) and Marvin were on the floor offensively, you were basically playing 5 against 3. I like Woody as a person, but he has said some things that make no common sense. The one thing that he said that really puzzled me was the comment he made at the start of the 4th quarter in game four. He actually said that we have to force Orlando to shoot jumpshots. WOW.

S Hawk Fan

May 12th, 2010
12:33 pm

Section 303… I was responding to a post as recent as 11:41a.m. from Mustang Salley when in the very first sentence it says” Woody should come back because Sund is just as flawed as Woody is” And the reason why I said on an island by THEMselves (singular form) is that they are the only one I saw!
So let’s see maybe I am not the one CONFUSED!!!

Rod from College Park

May 12th, 2010
12:41 pm

Ramon,

“Everyone complains about JJ, but Crawford shot us out more games than Smoove, and about the same number that Joe. In the playoffs, Crawford may have had 2 good games out of ELEVEN. You don’t promote that production to the starting line up.”

Again I ask you, where are you getiing you information from? Ramon, you seem to leave out the fact that Jamal’s sole purpose on this team was to come of the bench and score. Do you not remember when Woodson stated in the media that Jamal has to come in the game and be aggressive? Do you think he was talking about defense? Jamal’s job on this team was to come in the game and score period. Whether he missed shots, or not is irrelevant. Any Atlanta Hawks fan who can actually come on a blog and say anything negative about Jamal Crawford this year should have their head examined. The guy performed over and above everyone’s expectations. The last two games of the Orlando series, the only two guys who really showed up were Jamal and Horford. When he first came in he was all about showing the team that he could play within the offense, pass the ball and do other things, but during the year, his coach continually let guys like Marvin Williams and Bibby start games, which caused the team to fall behind in games early, and he was forced to come in the game and provide an offensive spark. Before you blame Jamal, you need to blame the coach who told him to come in the game all guns blazing. You also can blame Joe (Hot Sauce)Johnson for dribbling for 18 seconds then passing to Jamal or Josh.

bigdave

May 12th, 2010
12:44 pm

“This guy wasn’t the top guard in the ACC, so why does this group think he will suddenly be a top guard in the NBA. ”

though that s opinionated.. neither was Chris Paul.. Raymond Felton was probably considered the best PG in the nation…

cp

May 12th, 2010
12:47 pm

Navigator what are you talking about? Teague was one of the better players in the ACC his last season at Wake. He was the main reason they were ranked number 1 at one point….Teague was said to be more of a scorer coming out but he looks more like a legit pg to me…. His style just didn’t fit the iso offense. He has to have the ball in his hands but in Woodson’s offense he just pretty much gave the ball to our sg and ran to a corner…..So the Hawks will have a summer league team this year? Last year they didn’t but I thought they should have sent Teague to play with another teams summer league squad…. Some teams last year who didn’t have a team participating in the summer league just sent their rookies to play on another team. Is that what the Hawks are planning to do this year?….. I can see Teague averaging around 11 and 7 next year… I don’t know how many times this year he would make a great pass to someone on the second unit only for them to fumble the ball or just miss the shot….

JeffersonStarship

May 12th, 2010
12:57 pm

S Hawk Fan: You are right! Woody should coach on an island by himself, like Giligans Island where there is no one but him and nature. Woody is unable to coach a group of nba players because he doesnt know what he is doing. Woody can get you into the first round of the playoffs but that is as far as he can get you. He cant consistently get you into the second round and he doesnt have the wherewithall to get you into the conference finals. If you want to make it to the eastern conference finals or the NBA finals you will need a more experienced coach like a Phil Jackson, Greg Popavich or a Jerry Sloan. The Hawks should hire Avery Johnson because he is a great talent at head coach and would make the Hawks roster come alive.

LouHoltz

May 12th, 2010
1:01 pm

Mike Woodsen should have won COACH OF THE YEAR for his team setting the new record of being blown out by the HIGHEST MARGIN OF VICTORY IN NBA HISTORY (101 points in a four game series sweep).

I blog with more Heart

May 12th, 2010
1:09 pm

i called the fire dept, told them I smelled smoke, after checking things out, they told me that that was bibby getting burned by nelson.

Samuel

May 12th, 2010
1:23 pm

Nice try Samuel.

DP

May 12th, 2010
1:24 pm

Michael Cunningham, do you think there’s any chance the Timberwolves would entertain an offer of Josh Smith for Kevin Love and Darko Milicic? The salaries on each side line up almost perfectly. Love could start at the 5 and a Milicic/Pachulia combo would be 2 backups with a bunch of fouls to give against Howard. It would allow Horford to move to the 4 where he belongs.

I don’t know if the Timberwolves would think they could get away with a combo of Jefferson and Josh at the 5 and 4, but it’s not like they’ve been having a lot of success.

If not that, is there any opportunity to pry David Lee from the Knicks in a sign and trade for Joe Johnson, move Horford to the 4 and use Josh as bait to get a point guard?

Also, is there anybody around the league who thinks Marvin Williams could still break out or does he have zero trade value?

darrell starks

May 12th, 2010
1:27 pm

I like teague but woody ruined that privilege by not showing the world what he could do, thats why woody have 2 go and trading teague for a star caliber could be a considerration for this organization, look we can’t afford 2 step back we have 2 go forward and keeping teague could be a disaster or a blessing, but if you have the opportunity 2 get a prominent player by packaging teague the hawks must do so.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

May 12th, 2010
1:31 pm

John wall will be drafted by the nets, and devin could be on the trading block but we have 2 see.
1.TRADING MARVIN AND TEAGUE FOR DEVIN COULD BE POSSIBLE.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!

The Truth

May 12th, 2010
1:36 pm

I like the idea of our next coach being somebody who has played the PG position. Since this position is the most critical position the Hawks need right now, they should make it a priority during the evaluation process. Players like Rondo coached by Doc Rivers, CP3 coached by B Scott and B. Jennings coached by Scott Skiles (just to name a few); it seems that there is an added benefit to a rising PG in having a coach who has played that position. It is no coincidence that Woody, who played the SG and SF positions, made that position the focal point of his offense design but was clueless when it came to the PG position. This alone may explain why he was incapable in developing PG talent. Also, B Knight who really built much of the current roster played the position of SG and SF so he only added to the problem.

S Hawk Fan

May 12th, 2010
1:46 pm

The Truth…. I agree with you about hiring a coach that was a PG. I posted yesterday that I would like to see the Hawks go after Brian Shaw. He was a point guard and a pretty good one! He is now an assistant coach for the LA Lakers. I travel out to L.A. a good bit and listen to the local sports radio talk shows. He is the hot name to replace Phil Jackson down the road. Why not go after the person that is thought of so highly to coach one of the elite teams in the NBA. Make him a deal he can’t pass on!
It would also be a breathe of fresh air to have a coach that can coach up the young guys instead of hiding them at the end of the bench! Folks we have won in spite of this dude!

SilverShadow

May 12th, 2010
2:01 pm

I have come up with a scenario in two steps where the Hawks can acquire LaBron James and Dwight Howard without giving up anything! Step1:Sign LaBron James to a contract when he becomes a free agent after the Cavs get eliminated from the playoffs: Step2:After the Celtics eliminate the Orlando Magic, have Labron call Dwight and lobby for him to come to atlanta and sign a contract when Dwights deal expires. If Dwight agrees and decides to do it, you have reeled in probably two of the best three players in basketball and they are now playing at the HIGHLIGHT FACTORY.

Melvin

May 12th, 2010
2:14 pm

Ding

Bryce IV

May 12th, 2010
2:20 pm

Big Ray,

There’s no need to point fingers, I could sense the general vibe in response to Teague’s treatment this year and see no wrong in sharing my personal views on it. Perhaps you should use the “broad brush” to sweep up your attempts at witty remarks, or better yet, provide some actual analysis before simply questioning the remarks of others.

I’d like to hear your argument for why Teague should have played more than 10 mpg, considering the situation which Mike Woodson and the Hawks were in. “Little or no basis”? It’s funny you should mention that when my comments on Teague actually had a structured logical analysis to back them up, with support for previous analyses developed by others. You, on the other hand, appeared to simply throw out a single ill-conceived remark toward me when I disagreed with you.

Now, I’m not one to waste time arguing with others on blogs, the time is simply too valuable and often it is a lost cause, so this may be my final post of the day. However, here’s a word of advice: You may want to take a look at both sides and use some statistical reasoning to bolster your own arguments or counter-arguments against others before throwing out rash judgments if you’d like to be taken seriously.

Melvin

May 12th, 2010
2:20 pm

“You also can blame Joe (Hot Sauce)Johnson for dribbling for 18 seconds then passing to Jamal or Josh.” – Rod from CP

Rolling on the floor in my good work clothes laughing at the And 1 reference… Too funny

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
2:30 pm

DP – Love (no pun) the Love idea, but still leaces us ubdersized in frontct. he,s only about 6-7 & 1/2, bare ft. & jumps like
Mrs. Grandad’s fat sister. KL, however is a budding star along the Kevin McHale line. [bash on] (skill & polish w/o athleticism).
You get one thing, you give up another. If they took Bibby’s
contract [doubtful] then maybe? Love would be a wonderful piece
for a pkg. involving Marv.

STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)

May 12th, 2010
2:30 pm

Teague’s stats Per 36 mins:

11.4 Pts 6.1 Ast 3.4 Reb 1.7 Stl

Bibby’s stats Per 36 mins:

12 Pts 5 Ast 3 Reb 1.1 Stl

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
2:34 pm

What the heck:
*leaves
*undersized
That’s what I get for trying to type & watch
the Braves @ the same time, Then failing to edit.

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
2:38 pm

STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter):

What would their:

Asst. to TO ratio be?
&
Shots attempted?

per 36 min. of course!

Sautee

May 12th, 2010
2:38 pm

Bryce IV,

You said this: “I’d like to hear your argument for why Teague should have played more than 10 mpg, considering the situation which Mike Woodson and the Hawks were in.”

I’m not Big Ray, but here’s an argument that I posted earlier to northcyde:

Maybe because in Sund’s first interview he clearly stated that player development was an important part of the responsibilities of the head coach?

If YOUR boss says that X is an “important part of your responsibility”, do YOU blithely ignore that?

Woody did, and now he will pay the price. The fact of his lack of job security should have no bearing on whether he actually did the things he was ASKED to do. If his job description included player development and he was “coaching scared” as you say, then he was FAILING to do THAT part of his job.

Perhaps you share Woody’s view that player development is unimportant next to winning games. My view is that you can and should do both. Woody’s view on this is obviously not balanced.

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
2:42 pm

Rod, you said where am I getting my source from, when everything I said was also said by Larry Brown, Isaiah Thomas, Herb Williams, Don Nelson (I think he knows a little something about offense), Scott Skiles,and many others have said. You say he had a good play offs, when he shot only 36% in ELEVEN GAMES. And he shot 39% in the last two games that you said he played great in. Crawford is a great basketball player. But he’s not a SG to run screens all game long and to play with discipline. Many games, Horford or Josh would score 3-4 baskets in a row, and JC or JJ would come down and shoot two jumpers in a row while missing both of them. Crawford had a good season. But would you really want him guarding other SG for 35 minutes a game in a starting role for your team? You talk about Marvin, but Orlando (and Milwaukee, who’s coached by his old coach) tormented Crawford all around. The first five games, Jamal didn’t even cool comfortable on the court during the playoffs. I’m not saying the Hawks don’t need him and shouldn’t have him. I’m simply saying, Crawford shouldn’t be starting at SG, especially when you can still re-sign JJ.

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
2:50 pm

Ramon – none of us should declare anyone as starting:
[1], [2], [3], [4], [5] – because our new coach should
allow competition for those spots and not pre-choose
based on a whim or ‘pre’sumption.
Just an old school coach that sees things thru
old school glasses, can’t & won’t, change.

BrittishAnger

May 12th, 2010
2:56 pm

In addition to removing the financial blight that is Josh Childress from our salary cap situation, as it is now evident he WILL spend his last year in Greece since Olympiakos didn’t win the Euro-league title, I want an honest effort out of the Hawks to put together a solid roster for the summer league that will include both of our draft picks this year and our draft picks from last year. I want to see if Sergiy Gladyr’s range is at a level to use him as our own “J.J. Redick” sharpshooter; I want Teague to get loose and explode on heads this season the way he should have been allowed to this year; and I want to actually use this years picks instead of just collecting junk pieces that will warrant no return in the immediate future. I think these things will be predicated on the coaching change(s) as to their actual effectiveness, but we have the opportunity to improve without massive losses this off-season; Jamal Crawford was the insurance policy if Johnson were to leave, leaving our team pretty much the same with more financial leverage to improve long-term without breaking the bank to do it. I’m excited going forward, and despite what was an ugly post-season in terms of improvement, I give props to what the team did during the regular season and promise to keep my head in the blogs until the team completely implodes…and even then I might stick around….

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
2:56 pm

Grandad, I agree, but don’t see how people think Crawford can just step in and LEAD this team and take the place of JJ without any drop off occurring. JJ with Crawford backing him up is the best 1-2 at the SG position in the league.

BouregardClayton

May 12th, 2010
3:04 pm

Woody deserves a fresh new 3-year contract. Woodsen has proved he is an elite coach and deserves a few more years to attempt to win a title.

Sautee

May 12th, 2010
3:05 pm

Ramon,

I agree about Crawford not leading, but I COULD see him in a Rip Hamilton role, coming off screens and curling into the lane. I think THAT would suit his skills better than always trying to create one-on-one.

Gordon

May 12th, 2010
3:05 pm

The only thing which has me skeptical about re-signing Joe Johnson, is the fact that I’m afraid we will continue to see a trend of imbalanced shot distribution. The Hawks need to utilize their frontcourt more than they did during the regular season. Sometimes Joe and Jamal dominate the ball a bit too much, which is what leads to stagnant ball movement and uneven shot distribution. Both of them are used to creating their own shot, so you can’t help but expect that they will continue to follow that pattern when the going gets tough. I’d like to see increased ball movement and more inside-out play. I think Big Al could be a 20-10 guy or better next season if we work him into the flow of things more offensively, and he only needs about 13-14 shots/game to accomplish that (possibly less, depending on if he makes even more improvements over the summer). Also, we could increase Josh’s effectiveness as well with better ball movement and more cuts to the basket. I love having Joe and Jamal, but I think we need to rework our offensive style and achieve more balance on offense. With a younger, better defensive PG and playmaker, the defense will likely take care of itself for the most part, as long as guys buy into the system and bring the effort each night.

STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)

May 12th, 2010
3:07 pm

Sorry Grandad I couldn’t find the per 36 mins ast/turnover ratio

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
3:15 pm

Sautee, the question is would you want to see him doing that in the starting lineup or coming off the bench as the sixth man?

STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)

May 12th, 2010
3:17 pm

Heat, Johnson Have Mutual Interest

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/66517/20100511/heat_johnson_have_mutual_interest/

Hoops

May 12th, 2010
3:20 pm

Some thoughts on Woodson and the Hawks:

1. I wonder how many teams would be considering not resigning their coach after a 53 game win regular season.

2. I wonder how many teams would be considering not resigning their coach that has improved in the win column each season he has been their coach.

3. I wonder how successful the Hawks could have been this season if another coach, with more offensive imagination, was coaching the Hawks.

4. If the Hawks decide to not resign Woodson, what coach are they going to be able to sign that will be an upgrade over Woodson and take these Hawks to a higher level?

5. Would the Hawks, with Joe Johnson, be better with another coach? Would they be better without Joe Johnson, but with another coach?

Rick Sund will make some monumental decisions in the next few days that will affect the Hawks future for years to come! I hope he gets it right!

VickSwitchHitter

May 12th, 2010
3:37 pm

I KNOW THIS MUCH FOR SURE, IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME AT ALL IF WOODSEN GOT FIRED. WHEN ONE NBA TEAM WINS THE FINALS, THAT MEANS THAT 29 OTHER NBA TEAMS FAILED THAT SEASON, INCLUDING THE TEAM THAT CAME IN SECOND PLACE (OR THE RUNNER UP) IN THE FINALS. DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE OTHER 29 TEAMS SHOULD FIRE THEIR HEAD COACHES SINCE YOU ONLY HAD ONE SUCCESSFUL COACH THAT SEASON. THIS IS WHY SOMETIMES ITS DIFFICULT TO FOLLOW SPORTS BECAUSE ALOT TIMES, FANS, PLAYERS, COACHES, GM’S GET IMPATIENT AND SOMEONE HAS TO PAY A PRICE FOR FAILURE. I REMEMBER ONE SEASON IN THE NHL, THE RUNNER-UP TEAM WHO LOST THE STANLEY CUP FIRED THEIR HEAD COACH. I WAS SHOCKED BUT NOT SURPRISED BECAUSE THERE IS JOB SECURITY FOR ONLY ONE FRANCHISE AND THAT IS THE FRANCHISE WHO WINS THE CHAMPIONSHIP. NO OTHER TEAM HAS JOB SECURITY EXCEPT FOR THE CHAMPION.

Leave My Name Out

May 12th, 2010
3:42 pm

Woodson has to improve the offensive schemes for this team, or hire somebody who can…it is also obvious he cannot coach PG’s at all and should seek assistance in making this strength instead of a weakness (if nothing else, amalgamate Bibby towards this and make him an assistant once his deal is done).

PaulWinchester

May 12th, 2010
3:44 pm

Mike “Woody” Woodsen should have won the coach of the year for guiding the hawks to third place in the east with a bunch of misfits, hoodlums and hoodrats. Think about it. The erratic, turnover-happy, 4th qtr lead-blowing Hawks team, with the multiplicity of problems that they have somehow scratched out 53 wins (more than the Boston Celtics) with a make-shift, talentless, turnover-infested roster of iso-knuckleheads and brickthrowers. That in itself should be commended and woodsen should be rewarded and deserves at least a 7-year deal.

truthspitter

May 12th, 2010
3:56 pm

BIGRAY: Yes but all those games were in double digit wins. Meaning the time given to him was not exactly under pressure. Teague looked totally lost, like maybe he did not know how to run the plays, and yes they do run plays.

S Hawk Fan

May 12th, 2010
4:01 pm

I was curious how long it would take Woody to get his family(the only real people that would support him) to get on the blog!
BTW…. if you are going to support someone spell his name right WoodsOn !!!! not WoodsEn !!!!
But what should we expect from anyone crazy enough to support that loser! Bye Woody!!!

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
4:04 pm

Dang Ramon – if Joe ain’t here then yeah I would like to see Jamal
in that role. If they’re both here then a double ‘Rip’ offense if
that’s what the new guy wants.

John Wooden:
“I don’t play the five best guys but the five
that play the best together.”

I don’t care who starts, but if the new guy is worth his salt
he will figure it out. Wdsn pre-determined as ‘we’ are trying
to do now. Let the best man earn it. If Jamal is better for the
team than Joe as determined by the new coach, then Joe will
probably win 6th man of the yr. & revel in the absence of pressure.

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
4:06 pm

Leave My Name Out:

Let the Sixers worry about that.

Grandad

May 12th, 2010
4:07 pm

‘Hatter’ alert!

DP

May 12th, 2010
4:14 pm

PaulWinchester, I take it you didn’t notice the “turnover happy” Hawks had the fewest turnovers in the NBA this year. Of course, when your primary offense consists of one guy dribbling the ball for 18 seconds before jacking up a fadeaway jumper while the other 4 stand around you’re not going to commit as many turnovers as a team that runs the floor and passes the ball.

Rod from College Park

May 12th, 2010
4:20 pm

Ramon,

Not arguing with you about better offense, I agree, but that is not Jamal’s fault. That’s on the coach. As much as I liked JJ, leadership was not one of his strong suits. I think Jamal would provide better leadership and could match or do better than the scoring numbers that Joe puts up. The problem would come on the defensive end, where JJ is probably our best man to man defender, and can guard multiple positions. Jamal guarding another shooting guard for 35 minutes would be no worse than Bibby or Marvin guarding their man this year. At least he could make them work on the defensive end. My issue with what you are saying is that you are blaming the player for what the coach told them to do. If you really did watch the games like you say, you would realize that Jennings and Nelson were not killing Jamal (as you say), they were burning Horford, Smith and Johnson because of our coaches love for the switching defense.

Another thing, I hate to tell you this, but getting the ball in the post to Horford against Dwight Howard (the best defender in the league), is not that great an idea. I don’t seem to recall many players in the league having success with that, let alone a guy with very limited moves in the post (Horford).

Leave My Name Out

May 12th, 2010
4:34 pm

Grandad;
That is assuming ASG gives him an extension because they’re too lazy to find somebody better…and there are better options….

Jason Collier

May 12th, 2010
4:58 pm

Dont kill me for thinking this, but maybe if another coach is brought in and given a 3 or 4 year deal, they would take more time in developing the players Woodson didnt take the time to do (IE Marvin, Teague, and to some extent Smoove) If they develope we could become that much better without a major move save maybe resigning Joe.

Ramon

May 12th, 2010
5:04 pm

Rod, I’m not blaming Jamal for this season. I’m saying in all of his previous stops in other cities, he’s yet to willingly accept not dominating the ball and creating his own shot. I like him as a player without question. But I’m one of the few on this blog who actually WANTS JJ back, and Crawford to still back him up. I just truly feel like there’s a bigger drop off when going to the bench if Crawford isn’t there. And that would hurt the team long term. There’s no one for the bench the Hawks could get who could score at a better clip than Jamal. People say its not about who starts the game. But how many games have we seen where the Hawks were left at a huge disadvantage at the end of the 1st quarter or beginning of 2nd BEFORE Crawford came here.

jarvis

May 12th, 2010
5:15 pm

Where’s Sekou?

terrell

May 12th, 2010
5:53 pm

DP, Josh for Kevin Love and Darko? You cant be serious. Unless were talking bout Al Jefferson, I would’nt even discuss a trade with Minnesota.

Mystikal

May 12th, 2010
6:35 pm

Is Lebron bigger than the game now? I’m sick of “As Lebron turns,” why can’t the celtics just get credit for being a better TEAM. That is why the cavs lost last year and why they are going to lose again this year. When Kobe was left on the island after Shaq left, he really learned what “what” team is about. Lebron hasn’t won anything and people are just steady riding his jock. That is what’s wrong with the game now. Everyone keeps granting the glory before the guts. Let him accomplish something before you annoint him the chosen one. I’ll be happy when the celtics wrap them up on Friday. And when he starts over next year on some scrub team I can’t wait to see how they spin that.

Mystikal

May 12th, 2010
7:12 pm

Check it out:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/nuggets/2010/05/12/is-lebron-james-cut-from-playoff-winning-cloth/

BrittishAnger

May 12th, 2010
7:45 pm

Actually, I think if anybody deserves a shot at being captain of this team other than Joe, it’s Al…I’m okay with Al being the leader of this team and Jamal just being Jamal in all honesty…He’s better with the fans and I think if he were to be here for more than four years after this following one, he’d end up with that title whether somebody said it early or not….

NUNNA!!

May 12th, 2010
8:24 pm

RAMON,
TEAGUE WAS AFRAID BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT WOODY WOULD YANK HIS BEHIND OUT AT ANY SLIGHT MISTAKE HE MADE,POINT PLAIN AND SIMPLE..

AND WOODY TALKS ABOUT HOW HE HAS TOLD BIBBY THAT NEXT YEAR IS TEAGUES YEAR???????

WHATEVER SUCKER!!
YOU ARE GONE AND OUT OF HERE COME JUNE OR JULY 1ST..NEXT YEAR IS TEAGUES YEAR AND GUESS WHAT WOODY????

YOU WON’T BE HERE TO COACH HE NOR THIS TEAM..

AND,I BET YOU ANYTHING THAT BIBBS WILL STILL GET MORE MINUTES THAT TEAGUE IF WOODY WERE STARTING HIM NEXT YEAR..

SUND DO THE RIGHT THING,AND DON’T ACCEPT WOODY’S CALLS AND DON’T SAY NOTHING TO HIM FROM NOW UNTIL THE FINAL DAY OF HIS CONTRACT..

THANKS WOODY..
NOW SEE YA!!!!!!

PaulWinchester

May 13th, 2010
10:59 am

DP: I agree with you that Joe Johnson wastes a lot of time dribbling the ball and wasting the clock. Even tv analyst Hubie Brown pointed it out on a Hawks/Magic broadcast. The reason why I said turnover-happy hawks is that in one of the games the Hawks played against the Magic, I think it was the 30-point blowout loss, there was a sequence in that game where the Hawks when they couldnt buy a basket committed 8 turnovers in a row: 3 consecutive ones by JOSH SMITH; 2 were 24-second shot clock violations and Im shot sure who committed the other three. Mike Woodsen NEVER EVEN CALLED A TIMEOUT and just watched his team self-destruct. That was the game that JOSH SMITH WAS SULKING AND STOPPED PLAYING MOMENTARILY and was just walking down the court when everybody else was running. THAT BRAND OF BASKETBALL IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE and that is why the Hawks got BLITZED BY 30 POINTS.

GodfreyWinchell

May 13th, 2010
1:45 pm

See Ya Woody. It was a good run by you but we understand that you cant help us anymore. No one cant say the hawks dont have the talent to advance. Phoenix is advancing in the western conference finals and they won 54 games [JUST ONE GAME MORE THAN THE HAWKS]. Boston is about to advance in the Eastern Conference and they won THREE FEWER GAMES THAN THE HAWKS PLUS THEY WERE SWEPT 4 TIMES IN THE REGULAR SEASON BY THE HAWKS. Yet the Hawks were unable to advance, BECAUSE THEY DIDNT MAKE THE EFFORT TO COMPETE AT ALL AGAINST THE MAGIC. If I had season tickets to Hawks games I would have cancelled them after the Hawks playoff run.

WiltChamberlain

May 13th, 2010
3:23 pm

The team that I really feel bad for right now is the Caviliers. Should the CAVS lose to the Celtics, the city of Cleveland is going to have a field day with Labron and the Cavs during the offseason; not to mention how the cleveland press will attack the cavs. Most clevland media outlets will write, “look if the LOWLY ATLANTA HAWKS are able to completely destroy the Celtics 4-0 in the regular season, how can a cleveland team that was the #1 seed (BEST TEAM) in the entire NBA (winning 61 games) lose to a Boston team that lost to the lowly atlanta hawks four times during the regular campaign. Those nasty articles will be written the entire summer and LaBron will end up packing up and shipping out of Cleveland because he wont be able to stand it. Plus, when the Hawks got smoked by 30 points in game 3 against the Magic, I thought that would be the worst blowout left in the playoffs and the caviliers trump that loss by losing to Boston by a worse margin of 32 points (120-88). I really want to see King James get a ring because he is such a good kid and he cares very much about his fans. In fact, in all the years Ive ever watched the NBA Ive never seen any other player who entertained his fans more graciously and more fun than LaBron. Watching Labron is fun and I never thought I would be a Cleveland fan, but after the Hawks the Cavs are probably the next team I love to watch. I’m rooting for LaBron to get his championship ring because I dont think there is a player out there who deserves one more. Maybe the second guy behind LaBron is Kevin Garnett. Kevin is a great one also and if LaBron doesnt get a ring then Doc Rivers and the Celtics would be my next choice, simply because the Celtics still have that championship pedigree.

BrittishAnger

May 13th, 2010
4:07 pm

Anybody know how long we can continue this annoying Josh Childress R.F.A. debacle until he becomes a U.F.A. without our approval or consent? I find Sund’s decision to put forth a Q.O. on Childress a bit unnerving and seriously irritating, as this does not allow us to pursue free agents WHO WOULD ACTUALLY PLAY FOR US! This is going to be the blight of Rick Sund’s tenure as GM if he keeps this annoying trend up, a small one theoretically, but a blight nonetheless….

LucilleBoris

May 13th, 2010
4:48 pm

I DONT KNOW WHAT THE OTHER BLOGGERS ARE THINKING, BUT HONESTLY CAN YOU IMAGINE LABRON JAMES IN ATLANTA HAWK UNIFORM. THAT WOULD BE PURE HEAVEN. IN FACT IF LABRON WERE TO SHOW UP HERE AT PHILLIPS, I WOULD GET LIFETIME HAWK TICKETS IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE NOTHING WOULD EVER STOP ME FROM GOING TO SEE LABRON. LABRON IS NOT QUITE AS GOOD AS KOBE BRYANT, IN MY OPINION, BUT HE IS BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE. THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD CAUSE ME TO FEEL GOOD ABOUT JOE JOHNSON LEAVING WOULD BE LABRON JAMES SIGNING WITH THE HAWKS BECAUSE LABRON JAMES IS THE ONLY GUY OTHER THAN KOBE BRYANT WHO COULD TAKE JOE JOHNSONS PLACE.

Your Brain is telling you

May 13th, 2010
5:01 pm

@lucilleboris: i hate lebron raymone james as much as the next person, somedays more; but as a fan you should know how to spell his name correctly, or were you just born and raised in a krispy kreme?

Your Brain is telling you

May 13th, 2010
5:03 pm

lo miso para wiltchamberlain.

MotherGoose

May 13th, 2010
5:10 pm

The Hawks got BRUTALLY BEATEN and CLOBBERED against the Orlando Magic, but Orlando does that to everyone. Orlando happens to be the hottest team in the NBA and has been for quite sometime. Orlandos record in the last 34 games is an astounding 31-3, WITH ONE OF THOSE THREE LOSSES COMING AT THE HANDS OF THE ATLANTA HAWKS. Fans please listen to the words of your general manager Rick Sund. Rick Sund said himself that ATLANTA HAS BECOME AN ELITE TEAM. As far as I’m concerned, the Hawks steller record was immaculate. Of course, the hawks had a terrible playoff run, but that doesnt negate the fact that the Hawks are an elite team. Trust me folks, if the Hawks add the right mix free agents during the offseason to the current mix of Hawks players, the ATLANTA HAWKS may possibly show up next year in either the eastern conference finals or the nba finals (despite the fact that a new coach will be coaching them after Woodsen gets shown the door). Dont worry, be happy.

Atlanta Hawks: Teague’s Time

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Atlanta Hawks: Teague’s Time

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