Magic at Atlanta Hawks Game 4: Personnel, Philosophy and Payroll
Expanding my print edition story . . .
Personnel
If the Hawks are interested in moving forward instead of standing pat, that means they are chasing the Magic. The disparity in talent (basketball, not physical), depth and single-minded execution in this series has been apparent. In addition to Dwight Howard, Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis, the Magic can send out at least seven additional players who effectively fill major roles.
To get to that level, the Hawks need more and better perimeter players, starting with a point guard. That’s true whether they re-sign J.J. or not, which I’ll get into more under the “Philosophy” heading. The Hawks need to see what they have with Teague, and sending him to summer league is a good start, but they also need a veteran other than Bibby who can possibly start or play big minutes.
The Hawks need more depth. Look at the bottom of the roster right now: Joe Smith, Jason Collins, Randolph Morris and Mario West. The Hawks need better players to fill those roles (backup center, power forward, and defensive wing) and either Woody or the next coach has to make it a point to work them into the rotation.
Philosophy
When the Hawks, including co-owner Michael Gearon Jr., say they are a better team when the ball is moving, what they mean is they are better when J.J. isn’t dribbling out the ball on one side of the floor while his teammates stand around. So before the Hawks even begin to ponder how much they think J.J. is worth, they first must decide if he can play a different style. If the Hawks re-sign J.J. and add a point guard who can get to the rim and create open shots, can J.J. thrive as a spot-up shooter and cutter? Or does he need to play his deliberate, slashing style? If the Hawks keep Woody, would he be able to get J.J. to change for the sake of the team? Can any coach do it at this point?
At first I defended the merits of Iso-Joe, which included the Hawks’ excellent efficiency numbers during the regular season. Slowly I came to realize the psychological toll it has on this team, which has several guys who need to be involved to stay sharp. And now we see that in the playoffs good defensive teams, which most of them tend to be, can neutralize Iso-Joe or Iso-Anybody. Actually, we saw that before the playoffs, when the Hawks kept losing those road leads with low-scoring second halves.
The Hawks’ need for a point guard ties into the defensive philosophy, too. Since two of the Hawks’ four primary perimeter players are weak defenders, Woody has had to use switches on screens (Woody is a big fan of Bibby but I think he’d use him as a reserve if he had a clearly better option.) If Woody stays and the Hawks acquire a couple more strong perimeter defenders, would he then scrap the switches? (I think he would.)
The chemistry issues also tie into philosophy. Perhaps if the Hawks ran an offense with more player and ball movement they wouldn’t suffer so many of those demoralizing scoring droughts. Surely a defense that keeps Al and Josh near the basket would help with the negative rebounding margins, fatigue and frustrations that can occur when big men are forced to defend on the perimeter.
Payroll
It’s easy to say ASG simply needs to go for it and start spending serious money. The Magic has three guys (Dwight, Rashard and Vince) making more than J.J., and those three guys have taken it to the Hawks. Still, none of the rest of the Magic are particularly high-priced, but there are lots of them. The Magic picked the right guys behind the stars and a coach who’s gotten them to buy into a defense-first approach.
So it’s not only about payroll. But the Hawks didn’t use either of their salary-cap exceptions this season, and that’s a major way to acquire solid, veteran players who can fill a major role. It’s what teams with real championship aspirations do even if they don’t go out and sign max guys. The Hawks’ $66 million payroll is well below that of the serious contending teams. They’ve gotten next to nothing from the minimum-salaries guys at the end of the bench.
But the reality is, there are only a few superstars ASG could acquire who would provide a reasonable chance at a return on their investment in this market. The list starts with LeBron, Wade, and Kobe and doesn’t go on much longer, if it all. Without getting into the many reasons offered for why people haven’t turned out for Hawks games, the attendance and revenues haven’t kept pace with the victories. The Hawks had to sell deeply discounted tickets (or in some cases give them away) for playoffs games. This is not an environment that would inspire any owner to take on payroll unless they can get a guy on that short list of box-office draws.
I saw that effect in Miami. The Heat traded for Shaq and suddenly they were the hot thing in Miami. Three years of sellouts and dramatically increased revenues followed. Then things went south, teh crowds and revenues started drying up again and Shaq was on his way to Phoenix. That’s how it tends to go unless a franchise is located in a rabid basketball town with deep ties to the local team.
You can offer an argument that the city would rally behind (and spend money on) a low-key, superstarless team that plays fundamentally sound offense and rugged defense. But, really, is that realistic? The Hawks sent out an exciting, athletic team that won 37 games at Philips Arena while scoring a lot of points and still had trouble drawing. Would it really make a big difference if the newly-constructed team ran less isos and fought through screens?
As it stands now, the Hawks’ payroll is projected at roughly $45 million next season. The salary cap is expected to be at about $56 million. That means if the Hawks let J.J. walk without a sign-and-trade, they can could possibly sign a free agent whose salary starts at $10-$11 million $9-$10 million (edit: reader Robert Dinterman emailed to note that this would require the Hawks to renounce several cap holds–see here for details). If they end up at the cap limit, they then could add a player using the mid-level (salary starting at about $5.5 million), bi-annual ($2.1 million) exceptions and/or minimum-salary exceptions.
Perhaps that plan might work in the short term if the Hawks got the Personnel part right and found good value for a starting point guard, defensive wing, center and whatever else they decide they need. Maybe losing an All-NBA talent like J.J. is offset somewhat by the change in Philosophy that presumably would happen with him gone and a point guard added. It’s doubtful it would be a team that can break through to the East finals but maybe it’s a small step back before something bigger down the line.
MC
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372 comments Add your comment
Westurd
May 10th, 2010
5:44 pm
Only losers call first!
Ben
May 10th, 2010
5:47 pm
We need to do something that’s all i know. Woody has to be gone for sure. This team would be much better with a REAL coach who knows how to run an offense and commands respect from his players. Woody doesn’t do either.
Ted Striker
May 10th, 2010
5:48 pm
You nailed it. And nailed it best in your last sentence. “…a small step back before something bigger down the line.”
I’m not a fan of blowing things up, but the sum of the parts here is less than the parts individually, and there’s no chemistry. Conclusion: BLOW IT UP.
Bucks Fan
May 10th, 2010
5:50 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Westurd
May 10th, 2010
5:50 pm
It needs to be built around Al. Al is the only player with a winning pedigree. You can see it in how he has played against the Magic. He is the only one playing with a chip on his shoulder as he and the rest of the Hawks should.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
5:52 pm
Sadly I don’t really have faith that this team will make the right moves.
I hope they prove me wrong.
SWAT Native
May 10th, 2010
5:57 pm
For what it’s worth, both Marvin and Mike Bibby were also NCAA champs.
Grandad
May 10th, 2010
5:59 pm
[re-post from previous blog] * fits in here as well.
I always manage to get the last post on the previous blog.
Whiteside, Orton, Alabi, (reaches/projects) all of them.
Think poor man’s Hasheem Thabeet, but not as experienced.
Thabeet = D-league.
We have Al, & Josh + Marv, possibly J.Childress in their prime.
*(Zaza) as well
Teaguer’s either got to produce on the floor or thru trade.[NOW]
[Wdsn wasted J.teague'e 1st yr,] and Jamal in his latter prime.
*(all but Al / could be in play as trade chips) this is reality.
* [5 yr. window with this group]
We cannot waste 3 or 4 yrs. with a project…^…see above.
Bibby’s contract will be moved, freeing some $.
Mo will not re-up…^…same.
Joe Smith, Cheeseburger, Mario, RandMo…will be replaced,
one way or another, [FA-signing] or minimum contract guys.
Draft = someone who can be a rotation player NOW!
If your looking for a Big that can help now:
‘Aleks Maric’ – Euro [FA] Best Big in europe, Aussie,
played 4 yrs,@ Nebraska, (this yr, played for *Partizan),
*team that Olympiakos [Childress' team] defeated in semis.
25 years old, experienced, 6-11, 270,
more ready than any collegean. Even my guy – Zoubek.
Don Mills
May 10th, 2010
5:59 pm
Atlanta has too much going on in the city and too many transplants, you have to bring in a superstar with personality to bring the attendance up, the way Vick did for the Falcons. Like Deion Sanders and those guys, who wants to spend all their money to watch boring Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams. Unfortunately, ASG doesn’t have any money and should have never been allowed to buy the team. They need to sell to Author Blank
SWAT Native
May 10th, 2010
6:00 pm
MC, yet another blog that’s even better than your article! The paying customers miss all this great stuff.
Westurd
May 10th, 2010
6:01 pm
Swats Native: You’re right….
Hawk n the Ham
May 10th, 2010
6:12 pm
FIRST!!!!
LOL, but really MC…..Great, great writeup. “The man’s a Shakespeare!”
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
6:12 pm
I agree with Don Mills. They need to sell this team to Arthur Blank.
drew2106
May 10th, 2010
6:12 pm
Magic will take game four tonite.
Charles says – Have your fishing poles ready.
Come on Hawks win this one tonite so the Magic can win it all at home.
Ryan
May 10th, 2010
6:14 pm
This will be hilarious! Who cares about the Hawks or the NBA? This city loves baseball and football and that is it. Would be nice if the Hawks just moved out of Atlanta. They will never get past the second round. Orlando 104 Atlanta 85 in front of about 10,000.
Ryder
May 10th, 2010
6:18 pm
Westurd is right…even though Atlanta will get dominated by Orlando in this series, I don’t think that JJ is the problem. It’s obvious that Woodson doesn’t have the pedigree to take this team to the championship. I keep JJ and bring in another coach who can utilize the skills of Al Horford, Jeff Teague, and Josh Smith. I really hope that Jeff Van Gundy changes his mind and comes back to coaching. I do believe that he can get the most out of Josh Smith.
Also, they should drop Marvin Williams to the bench, he has shown he does not have the agreesiveness needed to take it to another level in the playoffs. Base your offense around Horford, and watch the fortunes of the Hawks change.
Grandad
May 10th, 2010
6:19 pm
Great read Michael!
PS – It would not hurt the Hawks to find a
*radio flagship station*
that could broadcast outside the city limits.
GT Alum
May 10th, 2010
6:19 pm
Ryan, I would contest your contention that this city loves baseball. The Braves’ attendance has been dwindling for years. For the majority of Atlantans, sporting events are social events. They go to see the big names superstars, and to see and be seen and socialize. If the Hawks got a superstar, they would sell out every home game, even if they lost all of them.
Ryan
May 10th, 2010
6:23 pm
GT Alum, the Braves still average right around 30,000 per season. Pretty darn good if you ask me over 81 games. The pathetic Hawks averaged 16,500 this year. Now, if an average of 30,000 go to a Braves game over 81 games, don’t you think that Phillips Arena should be FULL with 19,000 fans over 41 games? Nice try though making your point.
Hawk Str8Talk
May 10th, 2010
6:27 pm
Well, this pretty much sums up what I’ve been saying for about 2 years in my blogs. I spent the postseason just talking about how bad psychologically our philosophy and setup as an organization and team is. So, despite 53 wins (which happen because our talent is much better than about 3/5ths of the league – 3/5ths of 82 = 49 wins), we never were going to matter this season. The bad part about it is that all of this was true LAST postseason. Only it was accepted due to a few injuries, but trust me – that series vs. the Heat should have told everyone that it was not going to end well…www.hawkstr8talk.com
Mark
May 10th, 2010
6:28 pm
JJ’s not the problem. The problem is the ISO-Joe and it started during the season. Even the ISO-Jordon didn’t work for the Bulls. They had to get people around MJ so that they could keep him from being worn down as the only option. When they learned to play team ball, and relied on Jordan near the end of close games, they became winners.
The Hawks have complimentary players but the coaching staff keeps going back to the ISO-Joe option when things aren’t working. They did this all season and they can’t change in the playoffs. JJ has to be one of the most frustrated people on the team. He is always asked to shoot with time running out and poor position. Between that and the ISO-Joe, there is no real offensive plan.
The coaching is also why young players sit on the bench and don’t contribute. Would it be that bad to loose a few more games and get a rookie like Teague some minutes during the season? He can watch all the games he wants but there is nothing like the experience lessons learned on the court. If I am the GM, this alone is why I get a new head coach. The GM can only bring in the talent. The coach has to develop it and utilize it.
Someone also has to teach them how to take adversity and keep fighting. Emotionally it is easier to win than loose. What really takes guts is to get knocked down hard, and to come back under control and win. JJ can’t do it alone, but neither could MJ. What is needed is a Phil Jackson willing to put the rest together.
clarkekent
May 10th, 2010
6:29 pm
ditto on what “da Don” mills said
Richie Rich
May 10th, 2010
6:31 pm
anybody want to go to the game tonight?
GT Alum
May 10th, 2010
6:39 pm
No argument that the Hawks should be able to do better attendance-wise. There’s several possible reasons why the Braves well outdraw the Hawks. I guess my contention was that the word “love” is probably a bit of an overstatement when it comes to this city’s relationship to baseball. If you walked up to folks at Turner Field and asked them about players on the roster, I bet most of them wouldn’t know more than Chipper, McCann, Hanson, Heyward, Lowe, Hudson, and maybe JJ. And the fans rooting for the visiting team would probably know more about the Braves on average than the Braves supporters.
Horford Rox
May 10th, 2010
6:49 pm
No team has ever come back from an 0-3 deficit to win a 7 game NBA playoff series. Who falcon cares? To any Hawx fans on their way to the game, I encourage you to grab a broomstick, break it over your knee, and grab hold to some “Shock the World” Hawx gear. It’s time for tiny azz David to stand up and bust Goliath upside his head.
Regardless of the outcome, I will stand behind this team and support anyone who is man enough to don an Atlanta Hawx uniform. I ain’t mad at #2 and would love to see him stay with us. There is no shame in losing to a great opponent. The only disgrace is not competing. It’s time for this team to MAN UP and beat Orlando.
Go Hawx…Beat ‘em up if you have to!!
It’s time to SHOCK THE WORLD!!!
Maxx
May 10th, 2010
6:50 pm
MC- What are the chances of the Hawks landing Chris Bosh if J.J. walks?
Richie Rich
May 10th, 2010
6:51 pm
i have an extra ticket for somebody if they want it.
WestOfAthens
May 10th, 2010
6:52 pm
Something bigger down the line?
Is this not the best free agrent crop in decades?
Why wait?
My Three Questi… Um, Three Cents
Greg
May 10th, 2010
6:53 pm
If the Hawks keep Woodson, they have given up. Surely that’s not even something they are considering. Don’t give me this crap about “who would they get to take his place?” I’ve seen church league coaches who have better ball movement and do a better job of inspiring their players. But you can always count on Woody to summarize what the problems are after the fact. Unfortunately, he asks the same questions the rest of us do and doesn’t have any answers.
I’m going to tune into about 10 minutes of the Hawks funeral procession tonight just to see how many empty seats there are and how loudly JJ gets booed when he is introduced.
Michael Cunningham
May 10th, 2010
6:57 pm
@SWAT: different style, different audience and unlimited space on the blog. glad you like it.
Richie Rich
May 10th, 2010
6:58 pm
good seats to fellas….all you have to do is show up.
Don!
May 10th, 2010
6:59 pm
Until further notice, these are the Atlanta awks. There’s no ‘H’ in this team.
Later,
Don!
GT Alum
May 10th, 2010
7:00 pm
Richie, I’d show up if someone would guarantee me the Hawks will.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
7:01 pm
Hawks are falling apart like a cheap suit.
This is bad business. This is sad.
Playoffs don’t lie.
Good stuff MC.
Michael Cunningham
May 10th, 2010
7:04 pm
@Mark: very nice take, your reasoning is sound. but i might quibble with the part about J.J.’s frustrations and “teaching” how to fight through adversity.
J.J. often brings that on himself with the overdribbling. when he says “we need to move the ball” it seems lost on him that doing so is largely within his control. i’ve seen so many times when Woody calls a play and it looks pretty good until it gets to J.J. then he backs it out, sets up his man and goes Iso. that’s why i wonder if it’s just such an ingrained part of his game now that he wouldn’t be able to change.
also, pros shouldn’t need to be taught to keep fighting. they should take pride as professionals. i think the key is to find more guys who have that as part of their makeup.
Richie Rich
May 10th, 2010
7:04 pm
i can’t gaurantee a win but the ticket is free
Michael Cunningham
May 10th, 2010
7:07 pm
@Maxx: lots of factors in a sign-and-trade. both players have to want to go to the new team (which includes considering what will be the makeup of the new team). both players have to agree to the money. and both teams have to agree to a deal. so, in short, i can’t say at this point what are the chances. it would start with the Hawks finding a team and player that’s interested and then trying to put all the other factors together.
steve brown
May 10th, 2010
7:08 pm
Has anyone seen Teague shoot a jump shot? Does he have one?
Richie Rich
May 10th, 2010
7:12 pm
section 112 behind the magic bench
Fear the Deer
May 10th, 2010
7:12 pm
Hahahahahahahaha! Worst playoff series loss EVER!
Blast
May 10th, 2010
7:13 pm
And to imagine Hawks wanted the Magic in the 2nd round! Hawks would have been better off coming out 4th in the East, though I can see now the Cavs would have swept them anyway. Boston is playing better in the playoffs than they did in the regular season!
Once Hawks gets knocked out tonight, least I would be able to root for Rando and the Celts. God knows I hate them less than I hate Cleveland. I would be a happy fan if Boston can somehow knock out Cleveland. Give me some satisfaction to mellow off Hawks disappointment.
Richie Rich
May 10th, 2010
7:14 pm
sorry fellas ticket is taken.
Horford Rox
May 10th, 2010
7:15 pm
Don!
You say there’s no “H in awks.” Sounds like you’re the type of “fan” that boos his team off the floor. Well, that caliber of “support” ain’t needed. Go stick a pacifier in your mouth.
Man up and be real fan DON! Never QUIT on your team. As for Richie “free tix” Rich… Get your butt to Philips and encourage this team to Shock the World!!
Go Hawx…Beat ‘em up if you have to!!
It’s time to SHOCK THE WORLD!!
Fear the Deer
May 10th, 2010
7:16 pm
Buh bye. Thank you for flying Delta. Buh bye.
GT Alum
May 10th, 2010
7:17 pm
Richie, I’m not even asking for a win – just for them to leave it all on the floor. I’ve just got better ways to spend my time than watching the Hawks just stand around and take jumpshots.
Sorry, you’re making a genuinely nice offer, and I used it to take a stab at the Hawks just because I’m completely disillusioned after watching them sleepwalk through game 3.
Willy
May 10th, 2010
7:20 pm
It’s a shame that the one guy on this team (Woodson) who’s truly committed to winning is on his way out the door.
GT Alum
May 10th, 2010
7:21 pm
Horford Rox, I think Richie was asking for someone to use an extra ticket he has, not his ticket.
Also, the fans only quit on the Hawks after the Hawks quit on themselves. If they don’t want to get booed, they should at least make it look like they’re trying out there. Even if they hadn’t been keeping score, game 3 would’ve still been a pitiful performance for the Hawks.
Allen
May 10th, 2010
7:25 pm
The Hawks team did not “quit”. Certain players just didn’t show up when they needed to. That’s the bottom line. You can’t put the blame on the entire team.
GT Alum
May 10th, 2010
7:29 pm
Allen, you’re right. Horford, Jamal and even ZaZa seemed to really be trying. JJ was trying to get his shot. But, for the most part, guys weren’t crashing the boards, going hard after loose balls – all the little things a team coming home down 2-0 in a playoff series should do.
Steve
May 10th, 2010
7:31 pm
Great young nucleus – Tony Parker is up for grabs according to ESPN – maybe see if they’ll take Jamal, Bibbs, and our 1st rounder this year. Then re-sign JJ and Chilz, and you have yourself a team!
Josh 24, Marv and Al only 23 – are only going to get better as well
Collins and Smith were the best guys available at the minimum salary, 2 vets with a winning pedigree and veteran work ethic for our youthful guys to example – Sund has done wonders – getting Jamal for nothing, drafting Teague – who I think has great potential. .
Horford Rox
May 10th, 2010
7:34 pm
GT Alum,
Maybe I was wrong for rushing to judgement on ole Mr. Rich. I may have misinterpreted his comments.
Go Hawx…Beat ‘em up if you have to!!!
Not only have I broken a broomstick today, but I ain’t fond of records either.
GO HAWX!! SHOCK THE WORLD!!!
GT Alum
May 10th, 2010
7:36 pm
Oh, and most of those guys seemed just as frustrated with the performance of the team as a whole as Hawks’ fans were and seemed to understand the booing. I’d really love to know what the atmosphere is like in the Hawks locker room before this game.
niremetal
May 10th, 2010
7:38 pm
The Hawks quit- just like I quit women when I found that juicy Big Ray!
brody
May 10th, 2010
7:42 pm
Why are bucks fans on here? Didn’t we beat you guys and you were up a game? If it were you all playing the Magic you would be beaten by 50 a game.
GT Alum
May 10th, 2010
7:45 pm
I guess they’re still upset about Josh’s comment that there’s nothing to do in Milwaukee. Especially after Yi didn’t want to be anywhere near there either.
oconomowoc hawk
May 10th, 2010
7:47 pm
the woodson/sund shotgun marriage needs to be dissolved.milwaukee won 49 games with a good center, a rookie point guard, and 10 role players.why?because g.m. hammond had skiles back 100% the players knew if they didnt give max effort,they would sit, and running up to the g.m.’s office to gripe would do them no good.they were held ACCOUNTABLE for their effort.
Don!
May 10th, 2010
7:47 pm
Horford Rox,
You don’t know me. Ask Ray and a couple of the old folks on the board, they’ll recognize my posts. I was here when this team had Pistol Pete. I spent the formative years of my basketball fandom cheering Doc Rivers when he played for us. I was here when this team won 13 games a few years ago. I’ve done pretty darn well in understanding this team and its’ potential for as long as I can remember.
This team, as currently constructed, has no heart.
Blame it on JJ’s contract push, or maybe Woody’s being left in limbo. Maybe it really is just the disjointed ownership. But any way you slice it, this team is the Tin Man of the NBA playoffs. No Heart.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the use of ALL CAPS and likely a rose-colored sense of view won’t help this team tonight, next year, or for the foreseeable future. This season is/was the limit of what can be achieved with this group — and this series is a harsh look in the mirror. It hurts, but sometimes you just have to tell Mama the baby is ugly. And as a team, the lack of preparation, the lack of effort — in short the lack of heart, is telling.
I love my awks. But this team has no H.
Later,
Don!
Bolten
May 10th, 2010
7:56 pm
oconomowoc, the Bucks actually won 46 games, not 49.
Hawk n the Ham
May 10th, 2010
7:59 pm
On the coaching question….How many teams with vacant coaching spots will go after Calipari?
lewis
May 10th, 2010
7:59 pm
Magic Johnson is disappointed in his friend Woodson for being so emotionless.
Jon “I hate the Atlanta Hawks” Barry refuses to address it as a series.
Wilbon says they could make up some lie as to why the Hawks havn’t shown up, but it’d be pointless.
Hawks lose by 18.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:00 pm
Woody turned soft because the Hawks have the emotional capacity of 4 year olds, now its biting him in the arse.
VinceVanGo
May 10th, 2010
8:02 pm
We need a coach, a fast & furious point guard, and an athletic center. Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby need to come off the bench or be traded. We also need a couple of good outside shooters. Let Horford be the go to guy with Josh Smith as the second option, then hit the shooters when they pack in or double team. They have most of the pieces, they just need a coach that has offensive and defensive schemes and knows how to get the most out of his players and how to control them when they drag their butts.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:03 pm
Al Horford looks pissed.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:04 pm
Let the beatdown commence
oconomowoc hawk
May 10th, 2010
8:04 pm
Bolten- 46 plus 3 playoff=49
Ramon
May 10th, 2010
8:05 pm
Najeh, I’ve NEVER said Sean Williams was a better defender than Horford. I’ve never even spoken of Sean Williams. I always said the Hawks should’ve acquired Camby for the longest to come off of the bench.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:05 pm
Man Nash was bleeding and he didn’t act he he was shot. Suck it up Josh.
Horford Rox
May 10th, 2010
8:05 pm
Don!
You’re right. I don’t know you and I don’t care to. To be honest, I only use ALL CAPS b/c I don’t know how to accentuate certain phrases in bold. Your rebuttal to me is the only thing decent you’ve posted tonight. Maybe my original thoughts were a little too harsh on you. But, I will always support and defend my H-A-W-X!! I don’t care to read any more “fan credentials” about your life as an “Awks” fan. I simply don’t care. You come across as lacking heart yourself, because you lack faith in the face of adversity. Instead of supporting this team, you’re blasting them. This ain’t the time for naysayers. Down 0-3, this is when the REAL FANS should step up and stand behind this team 100%. What’s happened so far is history. Now, it’s time to flip the script and…
SHOCK THE WORLD!!
Let’s (Caps off for Don!) Go Hawx!!!
Have a nice day,
Horford Rox
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:06 pm
if he scratched his actual eye there’s really nothing he can do about it.
you can’t even keep it open at that point
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:06 pm
Damn JJosh has embarassed himself this post season
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
8:06 pm
Wody forced to take a timeout already. Orlando looks good
o.O-Mac-Town -Macon, Georgia- Westsider-O.o
May 10th, 2010
8:06 pm
nice to see woodson call the early time out to rally the troops and make adjustments…… <<<<BS
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:06 pm
LOL theres nobody in the upper bowls of the arena
Blast
May 10th, 2010
8:07 pm
Only good thing about TNT, ESPN, and NBATV dominating the 2nd round is that mercifully, Nique and Bob have been spared the humiliation of calling this debacle of a series.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:07 pm
arena is empty
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:08 pm
Why doesn’t woodys dumbazz play teague.
sleepy
May 10th, 2010
8:08 pm
This starting unit is done and has been for awhile. Bring back Al get what you can for the rest
Melvin
May 10th, 2010
8:09 pm
Wow, the crowd is booing Joe….
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:09 pm
Look at Josh asking for the ball while standing behind the 3pt line lol. Seriously.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:09 pm
Yeah i’m starting to think Nique is a bad guy to have in the office.
Bibby is incredibly winded after 4 minutes.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:11 pm
LOL Bibby thinks he’s reggie miller
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:12 pm
bibby has 12 points this series.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:12 pm
Bibby has a total of 12 pts in the 1st 3 games LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:13 pm
Why is there a whistling sound?
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:14 pm
loved the lineup without Josh’s decision making as a liability
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
8:14 pm
Talented or not, why can’t we pass the ball the way Orlando does?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 10th, 2010
8:15 pm
“they think J.J. is worth, they first must decide if he can play a different style. If the Hawks re-sign J.J. and add a point guard who can get to the rim and create open shots, can J.J. thrive as a spot-up shooter and cutter?”
He already has, in Phoenix. He’s always been known as one of the more unselfish “superstars” out there, and I think he can adapt to a more ball movement oriented style.
“If the Hawks keep Woody, would he be able to get J.J. to change for the sake of the team?”
After these playoffs, I can’t see “Woody” and “change” in the same sentence. I have zero confidence in Woody’s ability to make adjustments of any kind. This team needs a coaching change.
“The Hawks’ $66 million payroll is well below that of the serious contending teams. They’ve gotten next to nothing from the minimum-salaries guys at the end of the bench.”
The difference in salary between the Hawks, at #22 in the league, and Denver, at #8 in the league, is $9 million… in other words, roughly one Marvin Williams. The Hawks are spending $19 million a year on Bibby, Marvin, and Zaza. Spending money wisely is a lot more important than just spending more money.
sleepy
May 10th, 2010
8:16 pm
The starters unit is done you can see how there is no chemistry. We cant even run basic offensive or defensive sets after 3 years . Weve been basically getting along on the outstanding individual talents of the player but as a unit they they just dont mesh.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 10th, 2010
8:17 pm
“Najeh, I’ve NEVER said Sean Williams was a better defender than Horford.”
That post was addressed at Clyde, not you.
Wabe
May 10th, 2010
8:18 pm
“We cant even run basic offensive or defensive sets after 3 years…”
Sleepy,
We can’t? Or we won’t?
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:18 pm
Our 1st drive to the basket
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:19 pm
seriously does Zaza do anything positive?
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:20 pm
one of the things I’ve wanted to say all year but sort of held it in (not being a perfect, physical specimen myself) is that the Hawks are not one of the well conditioned teams in this league. They’re young and athletic so one can easily be fooled, but they look much more winded than other teams in the playoffs. Again, another thing Woodson has failed to recognize. Doesn’t help that he overplayed starters in the reg season.
cp
May 10th, 2010
8:20 pm
Its amazing to me that Woodrow is still playing Bibby. What more does he have to do to show that he is just big of a liablity defensively to be on the court. He has scored only what 2 points more than Teauge this series. Pathetic.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
8:20 pm
Najeh,
I think JJ is a byproduct of Woody’s lack of a system.
bigdave
May 10th, 2010
8:21 pm
how much does it cost to get in the lane?
jump shot.. jump shot.. jump shot..
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:21 pm
I know the Magic are the better team, but no way they are this much better than us, 1st of all we are afraid to drive to the basket and challenge him, if we continue to shoot jumpers this will be a 25+ blowout again
Melvin
May 10th, 2010
8:23 pm
These guys look like they are ready to go Fishing…
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:23 pm
Hawks aren’t makin Dwight play any Defense, his man is not a threat to score and we are just shooting long jumpshots, not to mention we don’t have a real PG running any kind of offense
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:23 pm
I think Bibby has some photos of Woody doing something illegal. Thats the only thing I can think of. There is no way he should be starting or getting more mins than teague.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 10th, 2010
8:25 pm
By the way, I am in section 221 yelling “FIRE WOODSON”. Anyone else here is free to join in. This is a 2005-sized crowd anyway.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:26 pm
look what barnes does for 1.6 mil a year
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:27 pm
LOL The Hawks are horrible
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
8:27 pm
Hawks need a PG. Fortunately, we are hitting jump shots.
Wabe
May 10th, 2010
8:28 pm
Why does Mo Evans think he’s a one-man fastbreak?
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:28 pm
That was a foul
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:29 pm
Mo Evans is the only one trying to win, that’s why.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:29 pm
74%, doubt they will keep that pace up
truly1
May 10th, 2010
8:29 pm
I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU MICHAEL CUNNINGHAM FOR ADMITTING YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT THE ISO JOE. IT TAKES A BIG MAN TO DO SO. I WAS WAITING FOR YOU TO DO SO NOW I CAN READ WITH OUT THINKING YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 10th, 2010
8:30 pm
At least the A-Town Dancers come correct every game. Maybe one of them can play point guard.
Sautee
May 10th, 2010
8:31 pm
Magic 14-19 (73.7%).
This sh!t is NOT working.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:31 pm
Seriously what do we lose by puttin in Teague, not sayin he’s the difference but Bibby doesn’t play PG anymore, he can’t cover anyone and he isn’t hittin shots, so again i ask, why not play Teague some meaningful minutes to get playoff experience.
cp
May 10th, 2010
8:31 pm
Other than finally hitting some shots I don’t see anything different so far. Jump shots instead of driving, turning over the ball, and absolutely no defense.
cp
May 10th, 2010
8:33 pm
Luke Cage that is a question many of us have been asking all year.. I knew Bibby was playing terrible but when they said he had only scored 12 points total this series I just shook my head. Teague has scored 12 points this series and he has barely played. I truly don’t see what could hurt playing the kid seeing how Bibby is giving us nothing but bad defense.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:34 pm
Luke Cage Bibby has blackmailed Woody
Jody
May 10th, 2010
8:34 pm
“Too many jumpshots”. This is why this team needs more size inside.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:35 pm
they seem to think Bibby actually is a floor general
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:35 pm
Ok Hawks we have to challenge these guys in the paint, If Howard has 20 blks so be it and you tip your hat to him, but to not at least challenge this guy at all is a travesty
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:36 pm
STEEL, admit that Josh is a genuis LOL
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
8:37 pm
said Woody before the game…”Relax, and play hard for 48 minutes. We’ve played well at home all year, now lets go out and win a game”
Come on Hawks. We’ve been hitting our jumpshots early, but I think its fool’s gold.
Sautee
May 10th, 2010
8:39 pm
We’re gonna die by the jumpshot.
A perfectly appropriate way for Woody to go out.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:40 pm
(YAWNS)
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:40 pm
If it turns out that Josh was “PLAYING DUMB” all this time to get Woody fired then yes I will admit that Josh is a genius.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:40 pm
enough with the damn jumpers
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:41 pm
DAMN, if we had a penetrating PG we could make this a series, hate to keep harpin on it but its killin me
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:42 pm
LOL@SPITTER
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:42 pm
Man these guys are really afraid of Dwight down low
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
8:42 pm
Josh is dumb lol
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:42 pm
josh heard those boos
Jody
May 10th, 2010
8:43 pm
Again, the Hawks are to little inside come playoff time and this has been the case the last three years.
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
8:43 pm
You keep doing the same thing over and over and over afriggingain. JOSH shooting fuggin airbalsss. Why not start the rook and WEST??? Go down FIGHTING!!!! DAmmnnn Mannn. Coaching should have nothing to do with tonight. ALL ABOUT EFFORT!!.. Ok who am i kiddin??? Why is Joe Smith not playing???? This IS A MESSS. The WORST azzwhoopin of ANY Playoff series. MaNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!! Fire em ALLLL SUND WOODY The SPIRIT EVERYYYBODYYYYY!!!!
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
8:44 pm
FUGGGGGGG THE HAWKSSSSS MANE!!!!!!
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:44 pm
How are these dudes open for 3s
Blast
May 10th, 2010
8:45 pm
Who is guarding Pietrius? That guy camps at the 3 line all night and just kill you. Game after game!
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
8:46 pm
MC,
Marvin Williams makes more money than Pietrus and Matt Barnes combined. So clearly, the Hawks have not done a good job spending the money.
Jody
May 10th, 2010
8:46 pm
Even Kevin Mchale (Hall of Famer) says Al Horford is a power forward.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:47 pm
Cmon fellas, get the game down to 5 – 7 pts by half and you give yourself a chance
cp
May 10th, 2010
8:47 pm
The Hawks perimeter defense is Olden Polynice type ugly.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:47 pm
WOW@O’Brien, thats so true
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:48 pm
They’re in a completely different league in terms of coaching. They have devised a scheme that is damn near unbeatable when they put out the kind of effort that Stan demands. The Hawks are supposed to be all lengthy and athletic, but the Magic are twice as athletic and long.
Sautee
May 10th, 2010
8:48 pm
O’Brien,
To be fair, Barnes likely signed for a little less for a chance at a ring. We don’t draw that caliber of player for our bench.
northcyde
May 10th, 2010
8:49 pm
They’re just better than us man. We have no one to contain Howard, and because of that, we have to double and leave shooters open. Plus any one of 4 guys on the floor can all shoot the 3.
This is like the 1994 and 1995 Houston Rockets team, except the Magic play better defense than that group and have better shooters. Olajuwon was much better than Howard though.
I mean damn . . . we’re shooting 50% FG and we’re STILL down 10.
Jody
May 10th, 2010
8:52 pm
They’re not only better, they’re also BIGGER.
Sautee
May 10th, 2010
8:52 pm
northcyde,
I just told Mrs. Sautee that I don’t think we could beat these guys WITHOUT Howard. Unless JJ AND Crawford went OFF.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:53 pm
Stan is exploiting the stats. Deep 2’s aren’t worth it.
terrell
May 10th, 2010
8:55 pm
Woody still allowing Josh to shoot jumpers. lol!
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
8:58 pm
terrell,
When the new HC comes in, his first comment to Josh should be: No jump shots unless there is 5 seconds or less on the shot clock.
Woody refused to get on Josh about it because he does so many other things well. That makes no sense to me…
northcyde
May 10th, 2010
8:58 pm
And I know ya’ll hate me talking about Crawford .. . but no mention of him in this thread at all . . even though he definitely should be looking to drive and dish, instead of shoot and miss.
He’s doing the same thing that JJ was doing in Game 3 . . . lol . . . but no complaints out of people.
Please.
This will be our “leader” next year.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
8:59 pm
There u go AL
lewis
May 10th, 2010
8:59 pm
Woody refused to get on Josh about it because he does so many other things well. That makes no sense to me…
you and every other person who’s ever taken an interest in Hawks basketball in the past 6 years
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:00 pm
no 3 seconds call
Najeh Davenpoop
May 10th, 2010
9:02 pm
I won’t be booing them after this half; they didn’t play too smart, but they at least look like tbey are trying. That’s a big improvement from last game.
Jody
May 10th, 2010
9:04 pm
Marvin Williams is really weak.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
9:05 pm
Not at all the voice I expected to come from Matt Barnes.
northcyde
May 10th, 2010
9:05 pm
We’d be in the game if Jamal drove then dished.
Instead, he’s 1-8 FG ( and getting a pass from the fan base because he’s not JJ, Smoove, or Marvin )
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
9:13 pm
northcyde,
Agreed. Crawford needs to drive and dish. But since he is not doing that (and he is 1-8), then why won’t Woody take him out the game?
That reinforces the point that Hawks need a PG. We are always relying on our SGs to get others involved. Thats the job of a PG.
If Teague is not good enough (and we know Bibby isn’t), then get somebody in here this offseason who can run the offense.
Hawks are trying this game, I’ll give them that…But too many jumpshots.
terrell
May 10th, 2010
9:15 pm
It’s just a mismatch. Orlando has at least 3 players that are better than the Hawks best player. They’re going to be hard to beat. Especially with a team that’s as up and down as the Hawks are. Remember they knocked Cleveland out or the Playoffs last year without Jameer. We’ve got to add some more depth and a new Coach with more than 1 play in his playbook to compete with the Orlando’s and Cleveland’s of the world. It’s that simple.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
9:17 pm
I think Woody is playing JJ 46 minutes because he wants him to get his numbers. He has played 23 minutes in the first half, and I wont be surprised when he gets tired in the second half.
Idiot Watch
May 10th, 2010
9:18 pm
FIRE MIKE CON THE HAM
Idiot Watch
May 10th, 2010
9:20 pm
I AGREE WITH THE EARLIER POSTER THAT MIKE CON & HAM LOOKS LIKE DIARRHEA
terrell
May 10th, 2010
9:20 pm
Obrien, Woody better be worried about his job. .uck JJ’s numbers. lol!
Idiot Watch
May 10th, 2010
9:21 pm
MIKE , CON&HAM AKA DICK BREATH
Idiot Watch
May 10th, 2010
9:23 pm
WOODSON HAS ALREADY AGREE TO GO TO A TEAM THAT IS SERIOUS ABOUT WINNING AND IS WILLING TO GO AFTER A LEGITIMATE CENTER. HE HAS NOTIFIED SUND THAT IF HE WANTS TO RETAIN HIS SERVICES HE BETTER GO AFTER A CENTER!
lewis
May 10th, 2010
9:27 pm
If you want a revolution….
the only solution…
Evolve.
Hawks have not evolved at all in 3 years, despite the increase in win total. Individually players have gotten better, but as a team, worse.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:27 pm
Magic are going for the juglar right now
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
9:28 pm
3 more Jump shots on da pile!!! Goodnesssss…
lewis
May 10th, 2010
9:28 pm
I just wanted to see some basketball tonight. Guess i’ll have to watch LA Utah
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:29 pm
now they get a 3 the old fashioned way
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:30 pm
Well 53 wins, growth of Al, it was a fun season to watch
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:31 pm
Just glad that Woody has no barganing power after this series, SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YAAAAAAAAA WOODROW
cp
May 10th, 2010
9:31 pm
Another invisible man night for Duck
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
9:31 pm
See thats EFFORT!!!!!! Or lack of…. Drive the lane behind the back pass for a THREEE. Better TEAM my azzz.. They straight CLOWNIN the Hawks!!
Sautee
May 10th, 2010
9:32 pm
Looks like somebody forgot those meds.
Blast
May 10th, 2010
9:33 pm
Here comes the beatdown!
Flava Fav on WWE Raw for those interested.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
9:33 pm
Jefferson on San Antonio is as good as Marvin will ever be, and he’s serviceable at best.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
9:34 pm
Why is bibby still in the game?
Mchale said third quarter is championship quarter because teams make adjustment at halftime.
Interesting.
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
9:35 pm
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
terrell
May 10th, 2010
9:35 pm
And to think, Billy Donavon turned down an opportunity to coach this team.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
9:36 pm
Josh is soooooooooooooo dumb. Instead of passing to Jamal he gets his shot blocked and cries.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:38 pm
Sad thing is Sund won’t get anyone in the paint to challenge this guy, he will crush the hawks for many years to come
Najheeen Boompar
May 10th, 2010
9:38 pm
SWAT, yes, Marvin was on a championship team in college…he was not a starter on the team in college, which is why so many questioned Billy Knight taking him over Deron Williams or Chris Paul..and do still.
Wabe
May 10th, 2010
9:38 pm
Venom,
Is it necessary for you to take every opportunity you get to point out J.Smith’s faults?
doc
May 10th, 2010
9:40 pm
najeh that 9 mil could be chills or a point and maybe a legit big if you throw in the salaries of unused players.
look this organization lost my interest when they went looking and signed mario for the rest of the season as its player to help make a move into the playoffs. that showed me they werent willing and didnt really respect anyone form the team to the fans. it showed no committment.
MC those are some mighty words there for you to say. it sounds very familiar to others around here and those same words said for the last three years. that iso stuff has been a killer because jj isnt that kind of player not even a killer like pierce for nailing the big shots. even now i shudder to see guys hesitate to pass it to someone then dribble the ball to where the guy was standing and makes the guy standing there in position to move. that is the type of team culture that has been developed.
as far as woody changing anything? no, because for the last three years that has been his state of the hawks address at the beginning of seasons of what will be changed based on what he has learned. problem is he continues to do the same things. i really hope you dont have to experience groundhog day with us if he remains.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
9:40 pm
Wabe,
Josh Smith would be in the D-league if Woodson had any backbone at all. I’ve wanted him to be the player and person he’s capable of for several years, it’s never going to happen. He cancels out half of his positive plays simply by making poor decisions over and over.
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
9:41 pm
This is a parody of a game. The Maigc are playing not to lose this game. That’s how bad it really is.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
9:42 pm
Yes it is neccessary. Becuz Smart people learn from their mistakes. Josh doesn’t. And my name is STEEL.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:44 pm
You will be amazed in the difference of having a real PG play PG, thats really what this team needs, can’t have Joe & Jamal running your point
Dory Funk III
May 10th, 2010
9:44 pm
Okay, seriously, do we need a point more or a center more? I say a true center, with Al and Smoove playing 3 and 4, would net 5-10 more wins this year. I say the same starting four, with an energetic, defensive point guard that can distribute, get others involved, would net us about the same. Truly? A point might be easier to come by. There just aren’t any D Howard’s floating around out there, other than the guy out in Golden State, and he’s not available. What do the experts think? Lemme hear ya.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
9:46 pm
What kills me is that TNT is across the street yet we get NO support from any of their analysts, who all live in Atlanta.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
9:46 pm
I think jj looks tired
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:47 pm
Dory we need a point more, look at what Jennings & Nelson has done to us in these playoffs, if you can get dribble penetration it just opens up everything, also with a quick PG you can stay in front of other PG’s
Abdullah the Butcher
May 10th, 2010
9:48 pm
Okay, Joe’s gone. Big deal, he’s overrated anyway. Marvin has either got to go, or find a seat on the bench. Bibby is getting old, I can deal with that, it happens. Marvin was not a starter in college for a reason. Now you see that reason. Thank you Billy Knight.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:50 pm
Who do we replace Joe with, i want serious answers, DWade aint showin up, Lebron aint even lookin this way, so who do we replace Joe with for all the “Let Joe Go” fans
lewis
May 10th, 2010
9:50 pm
It is a big deal.
Hope this series alters every one of our players careers for the better.
ed from athens
May 10th, 2010
9:50 pm
Billy brought us Al, Bibby and Smoove don’t forget. Of course he also brought us Chills, and the Williams boys, Marv and Sheldon, the latter two with flippin’ lottery picks.
ed from athens
May 10th, 2010
9:52 pm
Luke,
What about Crawford? I don’t know if he could hold up or not, but if no one else why not him? Then we could go out and find, with luck, a true center, or at least more of a true center, and let Al play 4 and Smoove 3, or even keep Smoove 4 and put Al at 3.
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
9:52 pm
Luke Cage ,
Who out there do you see challenging Howard in the paint? Did I miss the other 10 available all-star centers that average double doubles against him on a nightly basis?
Wabe ,
There is a reason why he took the name Venom Spitter. Because he spits venom. Josh is just one of the targets. In other news, the Taliban and Al Qaeda want to destroy all American infidels….
Najeh Davenpoop
May 10th, 2010
9:53 pm
“najeh that 9 mil could be chills or a point and maybe a legit big if you throw in the salaries of unused players.”
Of course, but I think the $20 million or so in essentially dead money hurts the Hawks a lot more. I’m just trying to say the money excuse doesn’t really fly when so much of it is tied up in garbage as it is.
BIGWORM
May 10th, 2010
9:53 pm
Enter your comments here. Let’s. Fix hawks ok asuming the nets get first pick in draft and they take j wall we send bibby m wiliams for Devin Harris. That’s ouR pg sign mike miller bring back chillz. Go get C mghee out of washington and then offer joe the same as before season plus hire Byron Scott
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
9:54 pm
I would post up Nelson EVERYTIME down the floor…
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:54 pm
Don’t understand Big Ray, there isn’t, but we have to go at him, i still say a PG is what this team needs
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
9:56 pm
You don’t replace Joe Johnson.
You replace the concept of “Joe and those other guys” with a true team concept. You build with solidifying the two most important positions in mind (center and pg), and you get a better coach in here.
Try replacing Joe Johnson, and you’ll get the same damn thing that you got with Joe: Decent regular seasons followed by struggles in the first round, followed by hasty 2nd round exits.
Or are you worried about replacing sub-40% shooting in the playoffs and a scoring average in the teens?
Blast
May 10th, 2010
9:57 pm
At least Jamal is aggressive, attacking, getting to the line and making free throws. Joe is doing nothing.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:57 pm
Ed, i like Crawford off the bench with that spark, rather have a real PG, look at what Rondo, Nelson, Nash & Deron Williams are doing, with this team a quick PG would get these long fast athletic team running more which is more of their strength
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
9:58 pm
with you Big Ray
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
9:59 pm
Luke Cage ,
Agreed. We must have a good, steady pg. We have a decent understudy in Teague, I believe. But Bibby is well past being the floor general we need. Which means we have no starting pg right now, pure and simple.
Now ask me if things could have been different under a coach who understands that even the best players can’t be ridden to anything but limited success, much less the ones who are a step or half step below them.
They all needed help. But the soon-to-be past is…well, the soon-to-be past.
I’d think much harder about keeping Joe if I knew Woody wouldn’t be here.
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
10:01 pm
I hope we resign jj, because despite a good 3rd quarter, I don’t want to see Crawford as our starting SG.
As a matter of fact, if we resign jj, I think we should trade Crawford.
Lets finished strong hawks. Win or lose, play with effort. And no offensive stagnation
GT Alum
May 10th, 2010
10:02 pm
At least the Braves have a 7-0 lead tonight.
Jody
May 10th, 2010
10:02 pm
Thinking of the fact that this team still needs a point guard makes my stomach hurt.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:02 pm
LOL man Woody is toast, rather see Avery Johnson or an Assistant with a offensive concept that can make in game adjustments
Rod from College Park
May 10th, 2010
10:03 pm
Woody said we have to force them to make jumpshots (LOL). That’s what they do.
Blast
May 10th, 2010
10:03 pm
2 straight fouls to start the 4th. 3 Magic possesions and a Lewis 3.
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
10:03 pm
No Defense…..
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
10:04 pm
Woody just doesn’t get it. I hope he gets booed after this game.
Jody
May 10th, 2010
10:04 pm
Time to start looking at what changes need to be made as this series is over.
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:04 pm
The only problem being I don’t know, as MC has said, if Joe could play a different style of ball. But if I was willing to chance it, I’d kick Woody to the curb, get somebody in here that would implement a “share the ball” style of offense and made adjustments on both sides of the ball when necessary (and got rid of that asinine switch defense as our base defense, use it as a switch-up if necessary, but not the main staple).
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:05 pm
Still I want to congradulate the Hawks for a fun season, this will be an intresting and pivital offseason, last time we were in this situation it took us about a decade to get back to the playoffs
Blast
May 10th, 2010
10:05 pm
O’Brien,
Trade Crawford? Come on, man. Aside for AL, no one has more heart than Jamal.
Sautee
May 10th, 2010
10:05 pm
Funny. Rod
Blast
May 10th, 2010
10:07 pm
And how many games did Jamal help us win this year? After getting over his playoff jitters, he’s played very well, though not shooting so well, but he’s getting to the line.
Trade the 6th man of the year? U serious??????
Jody
May 10th, 2010
10:07 pm
Big Ray,
I think Joe can play a different style because he did it in Phoenix and they won 60 plus games. Under Mike Woodson, Joe gets all the shots (even bad ones) he wants and virtually no offensive player will say no to that.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:07 pm
Honestly if we had any of the PG’s that i named earlier Woody woulda had them riding the bench instead of coaching him
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
10:09 pm
Whats REALLLY crazzyy is that JJ WOODY anddd Jamal could ALL WALK and nothing in RETURN. Who wants to come here and PLAY??? WHO?
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:09 pm
Lets just face it, they have better players and most importantly they have a much better coaching staff
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:09 pm
What’s funny is that Sekou, who used to be here as the beat writer, always said Larry Drew was a totally different kind of coach than Woody is. If the ASG wants to go cheap while Sund re-tools this thing (which will happen if Joe doesn’t come back), just promote the guy. He’ll eithe prove himself or prove to be a stop-gap until the Hawks can get a more credible person.
It works for both parties. The Hawks players get a different, yet familiar voice. Drew gets to add to his resume.
That’s the ultimate el-cheapo option, if ownership and management want to go that way.
Avery Johnson would bring some much-needed discipline. Tell you what, Josh would either be playing where he’s needed on the court, or he’d be headed elsewhere. And Avery would ensure that either we had a good pg at the helm, or he’d help mold Teague into one. I’m sure of it. Avery was a hell of a pg himself.
Thing is, we may not have a shot at him. He’s already interviewed for the Hornets and somebody else…
Blast
May 10th, 2010
10:10 pm
Love Hawks and all, they gave us a thrilling season, but right now I can only sing:
Nananana…..Heeeey, hey, goodbye….
See ya next season!
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
10:11 pm
People leaving…. Booing as they leave
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:11 pm
As of tomorrow Avery can interview for the Hawks job
SWAT Native
May 10th, 2010
10:11 pm
@Nahjeeen, I’m only reacting to the Al Horford championship pedigree comment earlier. I’m just saying he’s not the only one on the Hawks that has won an NCAA champtionship.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:11 pm
Well gotta watch Kenny get that Fishing Boat started up next
Blast
May 10th, 2010
10:12 pm
Everytime Hawks seems to be getting some momentum, refs call us for a vague foul.
Jody
May 10th, 2010
10:12 pm
As bad as this sounds, I’m ready to see who Kenny has on the fishin’ boat.
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:13 pm
Jody ,
I would quickly agree to that, and brought up the Phoenix style of play before. Two things bother me about that reference, though:
1) Joe was in a near perfect situation in Phoenix if you want to talk about winning and championship contention. However, he wanted out in the worst way. Why? Was it about the contract? He was a starter and got plenty of shots. You don’t get 17+ ppg by being ignored on offense.
2) Joe has gotten precisely what you said he got here (all the shots he wants). For FIVE YEARS. One might have to work a bit hard to convince him otherwise at this point.
sleepy
May 10th, 2010
10:13 pm
Will people stop saying Phoenix that was over 5 years ago. If you think Joe is gonna be willing to sacrifice touches or shots you are crazy.
Horford Rox
May 10th, 2010
10:13 pm
I recommend that we trade all boos for booze. Ha.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:15 pm
I believe and hope Joe returns, with better coaching and Teague starting we will be more fun, exciting and hungrier. If Woodrow goes to Philly, Igudala will become JJ of the south lol
Snowman
May 10th, 2010
10:16 pm
Mike, very well done!!! By the way, what’s up with Jeff Schultz? Why does he and the GM work against Woody and Joe in the paper the way they do? Is he a fraud? I know you are a colleague and must support your teammate (I get it…well at least publicly)) but that guy is a jerk and has had an agenda for years…I hope he gets fired!!! Not because he is dishonest and a fraud, which he is, but because he provides cover for Sund and it is so obvious. The fact is he is not very good at all!!!…We’ll talk further later over a nice beverage after the season is over. Again, very good work the way you framed the discussion!!!
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:17 pm
Jim Kelly in “Enter The Dragon” looking at Woody, “Man you come straight out of a comic book”
Wabe
May 10th, 2010
10:18 pm
I think it’s safe to say that this is offically a wrap.
Looking forward to the offseason.
*On another note, I don’t think there’s a team in the league that’ll beat Orlando 4 out of 7, including the Lakers. The Lakers have the size, and they have guys like Odom who can stay on Rashard on the perimeter, but they still have nobody to stay in front of Jameer Nelson. The Lakers struggle to stop opposing PG’s, just as the Hawks do. Judging based on what Westbrook was able to do to them, I’d say Jameer will have his way against the Lakers in the NBA FINALS.
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:18 pm
Luke ,
LOL. Woody would not know what to do with that Philly squad. Nobody up there knows how to shoot.
2 FOR JOHN DREW
May 10th, 2010
10:18 pm
THAT COMMERCIAL ….. THE NBA, WHERE CARING HAPPENS
IS FORCED COMMUNITY SERVICE FOR THE NBA PLAYERS … B/C YOU KNOW
IF HALF (maybe more) THOSE PLAYERS HAD THEIR DRUTHERS …. THEY COULD GIVE A FLYING FLIP ABOUT SITTING W/ SOME SCHOOL KIDS READING BOOKS AND SMILING FOR THE CAMERAS (i mean smiling for david stern)
Rod from College Park
May 10th, 2010
10:18 pm
I guess making them shoot jump shots was not such a good idea Woody.
Jody
May 10th, 2010
10:19 pm
Big Ray,
If my memory serves me correctly, I think Joe’s departure from Phoenix had to do with them giving an extension to Q Richardson over him. However, I see your point. At this point, Joe should be smart enough to realize that the iso heavy offense won’t get him a title. I also feel that this is the time when missed draft picks (Williams and Williams) comes back to bite you, HARD. You get your franchise in a position where you make the playoffs, but don’t have the players to lead you to a deep run.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
10:19 pm
Woody still wont play Teague. He hates him. Damn
sleepy
May 10th, 2010
10:19 pm
There is no special coaching for complacency.
The starting unit has been together 3 straight years and they basically struggled as a unit all year .Theyve gotten better individually but as a unit there is no chemistry.
The goal should be to move Al to PF and trade the the rest of the starting unit for someone to surround him with .
ghost
May 10th, 2010
10:19 pm
Ha. Snowman defending Woody. Send him some foodstamps when he gets fired you dork.
bigdave
May 10th, 2010
10:20 pm
its about making shots my a$s…
GOOOOOOODDDDDBYYYYYYEEEEEE WOODSON.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:20 pm
Hey Spitter, i feel a Josh Smith hard foul on someone before he hits the bench
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:21 pm
Jody ,
Yeah, you would hope so. I don’t know with Joe. Seems like he’s ready to leave as it is, but we’ll see. He may stay for the money and extra year, depending on what we offer him.
As for the draft, don’t get me started. We missed badly in two straight drafts and I still get clowned when I bring it up, getting told to let go of the past.
I have let go of the past. But the past won’t let go of the Hawks. What’s a guy gonna do?
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:22 pm
Since we are saddle with Marvin, put him on the bench and make him the 8th man, a guy like Rudy Gay would be a sweet 3 for us….Make AL a 4 and watch this guy grow and flourish
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
10:22 pm
The end of Joe Johnson
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:22 pm
Dang they booin ole boy
Wabe
May 10th, 2010
10:22 pm
Damn, dueces JJ.
bigdave
May 10th, 2010
10:22 pm
Obrien,
i see where you’re going with that, he is a trade piece… i thought that since we acquired him… under a new regime do you think he’s 6th man of the year? well, if he’s not starting smh.
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:22 pm
VenomSpitter ,
Woody may not have a job tomorrow. What does he care about Teague NOW? LOL, seriously…
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
10:23 pm
I want somebody with a personality here. Joe has no personality whatsoever.
bigdave
May 10th, 2010
10:23 pm
Hawks will miss Joe.
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
10:23 pm
Joe is gonna give the YOURE NUmber One sign to the FAns…lol
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:23 pm
THE WOODROW ERA IS FINALLY OVA!!! YYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH BOI
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
10:23 pm
LMAO @ Big Ray. Yea you’re right.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:24 pm
I hope this pisses this team off and makes them stronger and better
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:25 pm
I wouldn’t be so sure we’re saddled with Marvin. His contract is reasonable for any team that thinks they can get more out of him than we have.
And trust me, there are teams that will think that. They see the dsyfunction on this court with the whole team. Somebody will feel that he fits a niche somewhere.
Or….they won’t. You just never know. There are worse players in the league who have stuck around forever.
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
10:25 pm
<<<<<<<<<<< 16 threes
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
10:25 pm
Thed OFFICIAL WOODY GET YOUR BALD HEADED SELF OUT Party starts at my place in about 2 mins.
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:25 pm
Hawks will miss Joe’s talent and versatility.
Wabe
May 10th, 2010
10:26 pm
Big Ray,
IE…Eduardo Najara.
sleepy
May 10th, 2010
10:26 pm
talent and versatility only get you so far at some point you gotta have heart
Wabe
May 10th, 2010
10:26 pm
I know I mis-spelled the guys name…
But, you should know who I’m talkin bout.
Jody
May 10th, 2010
10:26 pm
Big Ray,
Very true. Tonight, more than ever this year, it seems to me that Joe is ready to leave. Just look at his demeanor as he left the game. As far as folks telling you to forget about the past, I really think they make those remarks out of homerism. Instead of being objective, they refuse to admit when they’re or the organization is wrong. Unfortunately, I think that stubborn attitude has crept into the Hawks organization somewhat.
bigdave
May 10th, 2010
10:27 pm
i want somebody who can ball here.. i mean, shoot, defend, reb, facilitate and stay healthy.. maybe to the tune of 21 … 4… and 5
give a damn about a personality..
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:27 pm
VenomSpitter ,
What kinda drinks you want me to bring? And I’ll get all the drunk-azzes home safe. Let the cop drive. Trust me…
O'Brien
May 10th, 2010
10:27 pm
Blast,
I love what Crawford gave us this year. But I we resign jj, we can use Crawford to upgrade our team. Maybe we can trade him for a starting PG and another piece.
Plus Crawford will be an expiring contract, and there is no guarantee he will resign with the hawks as a 6th man, if he could start somewhere else.
Again, this is only if we resign jj. Plus next year, except for the closing minutes of the game, I don’t want to see Jamal and Jj on the court at the same time , without a PG
bigdave
May 10th, 2010
10:28 pm
“lets get back to… what they call the highlight factory”
well damn Ernie..
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
10:28 pm
Big Ray bring every kind of drink. And I have a pinata with Woodys face on it hung up. Bring the bats lol.
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:29 pm
Wabe,
Exactly, lol!
BigDave,
Don’t let it sting too much, man. Know at least that Joe didn’t do all of this to himself. Blame his coach.
Jody,
So true. I think we may see some changes with Sund, however. He let this be a 2 year experiment, but always trust a GM to want to remake things in his own image, at least to some extent. Trust me on this….Sund didn’t make waves for 2 years…Now he has nothing but air and opportunity between him and some changes…
sleepy
May 10th, 2010
10:30 pm
You dont resign players like him to the type of money he wants PERIOD . If you do you are saying this is acceptable and its not .
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:30 pm
Venom Spitter,
How about riot batons and asp batons?
Jody
May 10th, 2010
10:30 pm
Big Ray,
Right on man. Let’s just hope they’re good changes.
SWAT Native
May 10th, 2010
10:31 pm
I hate to see them lose like this, but it was still a great year and I enjoyed the ride.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
10:31 pm
Woody’s Reign of Terror is over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Big Ray u might wanna bring a bazooka too
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
10:31 pm
<<<<< THE MOST LOPSIDED SERIES IN NBA HISTO REYYYYYYY…. DAMN
Sautee
May 10th, 2010
10:32 pm
Hey, We set an NBA record!
Oh, it was for highest losing margin in a playoff series?
Never Mind.
Jody
May 10th, 2010
10:32 pm
Hawks outscored by 101 points in four games. Just wow.
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:33 pm
Well guys, it’s over.
We duplicated last year’s postseason.
Don’t know when all the changes will get started, but something’s coming.
Fun chopping it up with y’all.
Let’s start the summer canniblogging and madness tomorrow…. ; /
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
10:33 pm
Why would Hawks congratulate Magic for smoking their ass 4 straight ? I understand sportsmanship but come on…
Cheryl Miller sounds just like Reggie Miller. Were they twins ?
Go Lakers.
northcyde
May 10th, 2010
10:33 pm
This team needs some of everything if we lose JJ. Remember, that’s our leading scorer, assist leader, and best perimeter defender we’re talking about here.
- the PG must be a floor leader and be able to play defense
- a defensive center . . A MUST ( and not a scrub )
- at least one or two sharpshooters
- could use a defensive specialist
- a player who can get his own shot ( seeing that Crawford is the only guy on the team like that, if JJ leaves )
Now if we can find a combination of these elements in a player, that’s great. Otherwise, these are the types of players we need on this team to get to the next level
Rod from College Park
May 10th, 2010
10:33 pm
Big Ray,
“Or….they won’t. You just never know. There are worse players in the league who have stuck around forever.”
No there are not.
Marvin Williams
23 1-5 0-0 0-0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 -4 2
Jody
May 10th, 2010
10:34 pm
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
Big Ray
May 10th, 2010
10:34 pm
It was a pretty dang good regular season.
Sautee ,
Talk about dubious infamy…
Jody ,
Same here, bro’. I hope it’s for the better.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:34 pm
Time to go Fishin
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:35 pm
@Northcyde, u just described the Magic LOL
northcyde
May 10th, 2010
10:35 pm
JJ . . if that was your last game as a Hawk, I greatly appreciate making my NBA life relevant again. I caught all kinds of hell supporting this team for God knows how long. You helped get me back being a rabid die hard fan of this team, and I thank you for it man.
Good luck in the summer, wherever you go. If it’s back here . . let’s improve on what we did this year. If not, I wish you all the best.
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
10:36 pm
Maybe Woody and JJ are gone ! A new coach and a new star player is on the horizon, I think.
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
10:36 pm
Changes start AT the TOP…….
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
10:37 pm
Northcyde sounds like Terrel Owens when he was crying about Romo. “Thats my quarterback man” lol
Northcyde(about Joe): “Thats MJ in disguise man” *cries*
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:38 pm
Yeah Joe, thanks cause its hard here in Florida being a Hawks fan, but i’ve stuck with this franchise since i was a kid (except for a couple of days after the trade deadline in 1994) and will continue to do so, whatever your future holds i wish you the best, hopefully we can finish what we started and you decide to come back
northcyde
May 10th, 2010
10:38 pm
Woody . . if this was your last game as coach of the Hawks, I appreciate all you have done for this franchise. You took an almost impossible job and endured a lot of stuff on the court and behind the scenes. When people wanted you fired, or got down on this team, you kept your head up and kept the players focused.
So while most can’t wait to see you go, I do appreciate the 6 years of service that you gave us. Under your direction, the team became relevant again. And no one can take that away from you. Good luck in whatever you do.
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:39 pm
Spitter you a trip man, lol you keep the entertainment flowin
Luke Cage
May 10th, 2010
10:39 pm
Sorry Northcyde, woody got by on as the talent got better, he didn’t teach at all
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
10:41 pm
Barkley & Kenny on TNT lighting Woody and the effort of the Hawks up !
Barley “I love Woody but when your tem gets beat by 40 you get mad. You got to break this team up after this.”
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
10:41 pm
Charles is outta his DAMN MIND saying Woody needs a contract.
northcyde
May 10th, 2010
10:41 pm
Plastic ( aka Venom ) . . . just being real man. People are booing him now, but I saw a few fans clapping when he went out of the game. Those fans that were clapping, know what this franchise was like before he came here. Even though he sold us out in these playoffs, they do appreciate what he has done for the franchise, as I do.
I’m not even trippin off you though. I wore my JJ jersey proud in a city where NO ONE had any Hawk paraphenalia. I just hope that if the Hawks do a sign and trade, that they ship him to the West. No way I want him coming back to Philips, teaming up with D-Wade in Miami, Rose in Chicago, or Lebron in New York. I’d rather have him on my side, than against me.
Don!
May 10th, 2010
10:41 pm
Plans for next season:
1. Resolve the ownership issues. Management by committee leads to mediocrity … at best.
2. Find a new coach. One that can mesh with …
3. Build the team around JSmooth and Horford. If we can get a team to bite on a JJ sign-and-trade, great. If not, look to Crawford for a season to fill that hole. See what JChill’s value is, because he’s not signing here now. Find out if Teague can be a starting PG. Zaza is okay, but we need more big depth to make up for our lack of size at C. We’re going to have to run three folks deep at that position, and give Big Al some time to catch a breath.
53 wins, third in the East. That was the ceiling for this team, and a great season. But this team doesn’t have the heart of a champion, and this city isn’t going to support average teams for the long term.
Later,
Don!
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
10:43 pm
Hawks should change their name to the Pigeons.
Blast
May 10th, 2010
10:43 pm
Sad way for Hawks to flame out after a pretty decent season. Decent in the sense that they lost games they should have won, just like how they lost to Magic by not bringing it all, or bringing it at all. Just as how Bucks almost got them. We all know when Hawks bring it, they can beat anyone, but they chose to do that split personality thing, which comes to bite your butt at crucial moments.
Biggest problem I see is coaching. Woody has never adjusted to having other options apart from Joe, so he never had any plays to call but for the iso…
As a result, Joe got comfortable in that role and even when younger guys got better, Jamal came aboard, Joe was not ready to change his ways…
In a way, I’m kinda glad it came down to this. Will force ASG, Sund to make some hard decisions. Woody? Joe? Bibby? Marvin? Childress? List goes on and on….
vava74
May 10th, 2010
10:43 pm
my guess: ORL loses in the ECF.
the Hawks are a curse: we get sweeped on the second round and then the team that sweeps us thinks that they are better than what they really are.
And then they lose!
Najeh Davenpoop
May 10th, 2010
10:44 pm
Some idiot yelled at me during my FIRE WOODSON chant to “know my sh-t, Woodson’s contract expires”. No sh-t sherlock. “Don’t extend Woodson” doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Nice season Hawks. Could have been better, but 53 wins ain’t bad. Hope they have the balls to make the possibly difficult moves to get past this point, starting with…
FIRE WOODY
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
10:45 pm
A blind man could see the Hawks need a point guard and a center. A deaf man could hear it. A man with no hands could feel it…
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
10:46 pm
Put a wig on Reggie Miller and he’s Cheryl Miller…
BILLY KNIGHT
May 10th, 2010
10:46 pm
WELL WOODY IT’S OVER AND YOU STILL MY BUDDY BRO.
Hawk n the Ham
May 10th, 2010
10:46 pm
My Joe Johnson jersey is silently weeping in my closet right now.
2 FOR JOHN DREW
May 10th, 2010
10:47 pm
THANKS AND BYE WOODY
REALLY ‘PPRECIATE YOU … BUT BAH BYE !!
Derek
May 10th, 2010
10:51 pm
The way Orlando is playing right now, I honestly don’t see anyone in the East coming close to beating them. Cleveland is actually having trouble with Boston right now. They are underachieving a bit there. Also, even with all the weapons Cleveland has, I don’t think they are even close to Orlando at this point. Lebron is incredible, but you can’t expect him to beat a team by himself. Rashard Lewis is playing a lot better than Antawn Jamison, and Shaq is really showing his age. Additionally, Jameer > Mo Williams, and Vince Carter >>>> Anthony Parker. Then you look at the bench and its not even close there either. The Magic bench is league’s better than the Cleveland bench both offensively and defensively. The only team which will likely be able to stop Orlando now is the Lakers, and if they do meet in the finals, I see the Lakers frontcourt doing a number on Orlando for the second straight year, but it should be more competitive than last year.
bigdave
May 10th, 2010
10:52 pm
Ray..
i was saying last year that its a wonder that the predictability and overall principles of our coaching had not created frustration; it finally did.
Joe was physically and mentally depleted. it shouldnt be that easy to beat a team with so much individual acclaim. however, we saw the same Hawk effort give or take a few more made shots here and there. which yield the same results. our shot selection sucked. i fell like our starting talent was good enough to have at least competed, our coaching never gave us a chance.
Redemption
May 10th, 2010
10:53 pm
@robdawg08
Cheryl Miller probably outweighs Reggie by a good 80 pounds, lol
mykhalc
May 10th, 2010
10:55 pm
a HC, effort and on-the-court-team-chemistry…HAWKS lack all of ‘em…PERIOD!!! i hear it’s ugly at Philips once again. i hope WOODSON finally gets his papers!!! JOE was once the defacto leader of the team but never a leader that demanded accountability IMHO. i think there is probably someone more suited for the role that is currently on the team but hasn’t spoken up for obvious reasons…heirarchy/peckin’ order (Horford seems to fit the mold). real leaders WANT to and CHOOSE to lead. and the follow-me-by-example type of leader will ALWAYS command only so much. a leader will rally those behind him to march with him/her. Joe never fit that role. question is…is his time up too??? i know Woodson’s is…better be. this second round beat-down was absolutely needed for this team to move forward. the ability to see beyond the mirage of the 53 game win mark is now in clear view despite ORL bein’ clearly in a class above the HAWKS. can’t wait to see what the summer brings…aaahhhhh a real HC…NICE!!!
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
10:55 pm
Magic have best center in NBA (Howard), one of best shooters R.Lewis,and added V.Cater who can score from anywhere inside and outside. Hawks have a dribbler JJ,a lazy dunker Smoove,and a lazy point guard M.Bibby. Only holdovers I’d keep are Horford,Smoove,and Teague. Let the rest walk.
Grandad
May 10th, 2010
10:57 pm
Barkley:
“No D___ heart” [Hawks]
“Woody deserves a new contract”
“Break up the team”
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
10:57 pm
A drag Reggie and Cheryl would be twins !
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
11:00 pm
Yeah, Barkley toasts Woody for not getting mad then says he needs a new contract. Barkley must be drunk ?
That’s like calling a dude a prick then inviting him in for dinner.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 10th, 2010
11:01 pm
Sund is a smart GM for the simple fct he knew not to sign Woody to a contract b4 the season.
South ga boy in the atl
May 10th, 2010
11:01 pm
One of the sad parts of all this now is the fact that JJ may have run himself out of so much money that we can actually afford him at the same time when I think we prob need to let him go
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
11:02 pm
Oh yeah, keep J. Crawford too.
Blast
May 10th, 2010
11:02 pm
Y’all cracking me up with this Reggie/Cheryl look alike Sh!t! They are brother and sister for Pete’s sake! Although one of my gay girlfriends did tell me in confidence about Cheryl a long time ago:
“Oh, she one of us, honey.”
For Hawks to pull that Jerkyll and Hyde stuff all season, and manifest it to the playoffs really made me start to believe there was dissention in the ranks. Not sure exactly if it’s b/w Joe and the younger guys, or Joe and Jamal on a sub level, but whatever it is, it has cost Hawks their season. Let’s see if Sund can realise and rectify that.
Night, Hawks fans. If Boston beat Cavs tomorrow? Then I will be a happy man.
Don’t get it twisted. Not going to bed yet, just getting off the blog. Got a new novel I want to read a little tonight.
Wabe
May 10th, 2010
11:02 pm
Barkley knows his hoops, but he obviously doesn’t know much about the Hawks inside operation.
It’s too much contradiction with those TNT guys when it comes to the Hawks. They criticize all of the things that the headcoach is responsible – getting the team motivated to play a playoff game; the “atrocious” half-court offense – but then they say we should re-sign the man that’s responsible for these shortcomings?
Mike Woodson hasn’t done a damn thing to prove he’s the guy that’ll get this team over the hump. People were saying that he could work his way into another contract had he made this a series, but we didn’t even come close to winning a game.
Grandad
May 10th, 2010
11:03 pm
Yawl are just messn’ around, ’cause they are twins aren’t they?
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
11:04 pm
Damn, I’m the typo king tonight… Go Lakers ! Kobe needs another ring !
Grandad
May 10th, 2010
11:04 pm
Never mind he’s her younger brother, yawl got me.
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
11:07 pm
Hey blast, just read the cliff’s notes version of that novel. A novel idea…
Chery, I mean Reggie is doing commentary with the pervert Marv Alberts tonight.
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
11:08 pm
Twin sisters or brothers or shims ?
dat super atl kush
May 10th, 2010
11:08 pm
the reason for mike woodson’s consistently bloodshot eyes and missing eyebrows
what bibby shares with woody to keep him in the starting lineup
what smoove will be puffin on tonight
what atl fans will need to cope with such a miserable, hollow, showing from the top down (other than Al)
SamOleMess
May 10th, 2010
11:09 pm
Dont get your HOPEs up… Hawks are shopping at Lennox on a Walmart budget. Hell they gonna let Sund coach and bring in Mateen Cleaves Ben Wallace and Antione Walker..
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
11:10 pm
Deron Williams is the first player since Dennis Rodman who you can tell cares how his hair looks.
ric
May 10th, 2010
11:10 pm
Blow it all up! Fire Woodson and let Joe Johnson go, this is as far as this group will take you. Keep Horford, Josh, Jamal and start Jeff Teague next year. Everybody else has to go and we need to bring in players that are hungry and a coach that has a system
South ga boy in the atl
May 10th, 2010
11:11 pm
I’m so dissapointed in Josh’s lack of consistant intensity. I really thought he had turned a corner, maturity wise, but the hard truth is hasn’t and I just don’t think he ever will, new coach or not. He’s prob at his peek right now as far as trade value and we need to get as much as we can. I love his highligts but can’t stand watching a guy with as little athleticism, in comparison to Josh, as reshard Lewis just run right by him. Josh could get max money and be the face of his hometown team if he just played smart all the time and gave max effort all the time. But he doesn’t, he won’t, and we need to move him for players who will.
Blast
May 10th, 2010
11:13 pm
Amazing that Hawks only started getting major mention by TNT and ESPN when they started losing and sucking it up, but when they were beating the Bucks, Hawks hardly got a squawk? This from home based TNT?
lewis
May 10th, 2010
11:13 pm
I’m so dissapointed in Josh’s lack of consistant intensity. I really thought he had turned a corner, maturity wise, but the hard truth is hasn’t and I just don’t think he ever will, new coach or not. He’s prob at his peek right now as far as trade value and we need to get as much as we can. I love his highligts but can’t stand watching a guy with as little athleticism, in comparison to Josh, as reshard Lewis just run right by him. Josh could get max money and be the face of his hometown team if he just played smart all the time and gave max effort all the time. But he doesn’t, he won’t, and we need to move him for players who will.
co-sign
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
11:13 pm
Get Amare Stoudamire or Chris Bosh ! 4-Real ! Dwyane Wade maybe ?
lewis
May 10th, 2010
11:14 pm
http://www.nba.com/playoffs2010/live1/ for those interested in watching post-game..woodson should be coming on shortly….they already did a few magic players and svg
lewis
May 10th, 2010
11:15 pm
oh you guys probably get that locally on fsn or whatever
lewis
May 10th, 2010
11:17 pm
they must be having some serious discussion in that locker room…
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
11:19 pm
I’d take a team of Horford,Wade,and Bosh over any current 3 players playing together right now (like Garnett,Rondo,Pierce or Kobe,Gasol,Odom).
Byron
May 10th, 2010
11:20 pm
Joe has been great and he’s very difficult to replace, but based upon what we’ve seen from him in the last couple of years, I think he may have reached his cieling. I think there may have been a slight issue in playing him and Jamal together. After all, they play the same position and both have similar habits (taking a lot of shots and creating on their own). When you have two players with a big time scorer mentality that play the same position, it can sometimes nullify both of them a bit when one is taking opportunities away from the other, and vice versa. There was enough Iso with Joe Johnson on the team, and bringing in Jamal only increased that, which is why I think we need to let one of those two go. My vote would be Joe, simply because Jamal is much more of a bargain salary-wise and he doesn’t mind coming off of the bench. With the money we free-up with Joe, I would go after a solid defensive, play-making point guard who is ready to run the point from day 1, no more rookies (and no more declining vets like bibby). With the remaining core players, we have more than enough offense to go around if the guys are given their shots (Horford, Smith, Williams, Crawford). I honestly think Marvin would be a lot more effective without Joe around. He showed what he could do last year when the team suffered with injuries during the second half of the season, and he still has a lot of upside. Horford is a stud, and I would not trade him for anyone. He’s a true diamond in the rough and a true all-around classy, talented player and natural leader. I think he could really continue to blossom in a system that revolved more around him than two scoring guards. Now, provided we keep Horford, Smith, Williams, and Crawford, and use Joe to pick up a solid point guard, the only void missing in the starting lineup is the SG position. I think we could get a good quality, solid SG for a bargain to play reasonable minutes at that position (Crawford would probably play at least 1/2 of those minutes). Salmons might be a nice pick-up if he’d be willing to accept a modest contract.
Then, we would be looking at a starting lineup of:
PG – Not yet known, but we need to get our money’s worth for Joe
(A defensive-minded guard with good play-making ability is a must)
SG – John Salmons (Wishful thinking)
SF – Marvin
PF – Josh Smith
C – Al Horford
Now, the bench definitely needs some bolstering, which is why I’d try to work something out with a bibby trade and make use of the free agency. I think we could continue to develop Teague and bring him off the bench at PG (with more consistent minutes), while Jamal remains as the backup SG. At SF, there is a serious void, since Mo will likely leave us. It would be great if we could either get Childress back on the team or sign-and-trade him if he no longer wanted to be a Hawk. Heck, if he could play near the level he is Europe right now, I would start him over Marvin and put Marvin as the backup SF. Now, at PF, I think we could use an upgrade over Joe Smith, but with virtually no money to spend, that is a tough one. Zaza is still solid as a back-up center also.
This isn’t a huge upgrade, but it could get the team more versatility, while improving defensively and not losing much offensively. It could also clear up a small bit of cap-space. The problem is finding a talented PG that would like to come to ATL, and whose team is willing to give him up.
robdawg08
May 10th, 2010
11:22 pm
Horford is a power forward not a true center. We need a big man to deal with Dwight Howard !
Wabe
May 10th, 2010
11:24 pm
I’ll say this, Chicago tryed John Salmons at the 2-gaurd after they let Ben Gordon go, and he was horrible…
They eventually moved him back to the bench. His play picked up, but they eventually let him go.
I’m not so sure if this means anything, but maybe worth considering.
Rick
May 10th, 2010
11:25 pm
Horford did as a good of a job, if not a better job than any “true” center against Dwight Howard. If you look at the statistics, Dwight did most of his damage in this when someone other than Horford was guarding him. Horford made the all-star team as a “center”, statistically he is the best post-defender at the “center” position, and overall, any other player at center other Dwight Howard would be a downgrade from Horford.
Byron
May 10th, 2010
11:27 pm
What I like about Salmons is the fact that he may be a bargain at the SG position, since I doubt he would ask for much salary-wise and he has that non-stop effort mentality. His playing ability isn’t spectacular but it’s as solid as any third or second-tier SG. Plus, I don’t expect that much from him offensively, but he does have a bit of what Joe had in his ability to post up and create his own shot, plus he is a solid defender.
Byron
May 10th, 2010
11:28 pm
If we focus on getting a high-quality PG, I don’t think there will be much left, salary-wise to do much for the SG position, which is why Salmons comes to mind. I can’t really think of anyone else right now.
lewis
May 10th, 2010
11:29 pm
dwight howard: “when we won last series…stan made us do a lot of running in practice. We do a lot of running. Stan don’t mess around with that.”
hawks were outmanned, outcoached, outconditioned, outplayed
James
May 10th, 2010
11:30 pm
Byron,
I kind of like the Salmons idea, plus Milwaukee would probably be willing to let him considering they should have a healthy Michael Redd back soon.
James
May 10th, 2010
11:30 pm
*let him go
Clyde
May 10th, 2010
11:33 pm
I told yall this team was only good enough to make it to the second round. No point guard and no center = a second round sweep. The bad part about it is we had the same problem when we got swept last year and nothing was done about it last summer. smh
FIRE WOODY
bigdave
May 10th, 2010
11:37 pm
Josh says ” too many iso’s”
Joe say’s with smile in regards to the door still being open in Atlanta: “its still open, its still open, ive been booed louder than that”
chuck
May 10th, 2010
11:42 pm
The problem is the clown ex GM Billy doofus Knight did a terrible job of drafting players. The best two players on the team by far are both PF and neither should be playing anywhere near big minutes at another position. Bibby is WAY over the hill and is at best a 10-15 minute a game player. Woodson is such a terrible coach that we still don’t know anything about Teague. JJ has to go or play for about half his salary. JJ just isn’t a superstar and is at best a third option on a top 4 or 5 team. The team that signs him to a big contract will regret it come playoff time when JJ chokes as usual. Marvin Williams was a terrible pick then and an even worse pick today. Playing Horford out of position at C isn’t fair to him.
Where have we heard this before? It’s time to blow up the team and rebuild. I don’t understand how with such a vibrant black community that signing free agents for the Hawks is such a problem.
Wabe
May 10th, 2010
11:46 pm
“I don’t understand how with such a vibrant black community that signing free agents for the Hawks is such a problem.”
What does this have to do with signing FA’s?
Woodys No Goody
May 10th, 2010
11:57 pm
Have to admit Im excited to see who Hawks next coach is going to be. Between this and Bobby Cox retiring, I can’t wait for next year!
cp
May 11th, 2010
12:01 am
I read that the Bucks were already trying to sign Salmons to an extension so he might not be available. The Hawks have to make moves this summer. They pretty much got no production from 2 of their starters. The bench other than Craw was terrible I still cant believe we signed Mario when guys like Stack and Von Wafer were available. Its time for Sund to earn his money but I don’t know if he is savvy enough to make great deals. The Craw move was great but other than that its been ehhhh.
Blackbuster
May 11th, 2010
12:04 am
I really think that management needs to have its primary focus on obtaining a quick, defensive point guard, who is not an offensive liability. Honestly, that has been the single biggest problem in our defense all season long. One of the reasons we have to rely on switching so often is due to the fact that Bibby cannot guard quick, talented PGs well at this stage of his career. That results in weak perimeter defense which causes our Bigs like Al Horford to have to switch out onto perimeter guys and leave the basket , which hurts the interior defense as well, and hurts us greatly in terms of rebounding since Horford is an excellent rebounder and interior defender, and bringing him out to the perimeter on defense nullifies that partially. If you have a strong defense, you always give yourself a chance to win and rarely get blown out. Take Charlotte for instance, they are an excellent defensive team with a defensive-minded coach. They were able to hold Orlando to depleted scoring during their series. The only achilles heal for Charlotte was their inability to score, or lack of offense. Atlanta definitely has a superior offense. Also, the lack of offense is another reason why we can’t pick up a starting PG who is an offensive liability since that will result on a much weaker offense as it will result in more double teams and greater attention on our potent scorers.
Richie Rich
May 11th, 2010
12:08 am
to the guy’s wondering about my comments about the free ticket i was trying to give away, i had 2 of them, 1 for me and another for anybody else that wanted to go for free….all you had to do was show up…like i said earlier, the seats were great..section 112 row n right behind the magic bench….it’s pretty bad when u can’t even give away a free playoff ticket!
Byron
May 11th, 2010
12:12 am
You know who else might be a cheap pick-up to bolster the bench and is unlikely to get resigned? Roger Mason Jr. He’s improved defensively with the Spurs and is a solid spot-up shooter.
Just thought I’d throw that out there.
bigdave
May 11th, 2010
12:21 am
someone mention Billy Knight and drafting players? listen to the Wes Durham interview:
http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1345
Najeh Davenpoop
May 11th, 2010
12:30 am
Look at the Jazz scrapping and fighting until the end.
The talent difference between the Jazz and Lakers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the talent difference between the Hawks and Magic.
doc
May 11th, 2010
12:32 am
ROFL @ ROD on woodyspeak.
Greg
May 11th, 2010
12:32 am
The Jazz have real leaders in Jerry Sloan and Deron Williams. They will never quit because of that.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 11th, 2010
12:34 am
LMAO @ the 790 the Zone people clowning on Billy Knight…
omar
May 11th, 2010
12:40 am
Bye Woody, Bye JJ
2011 Hawks Roster
May 11th, 2010
12:40 am
PG Steve Blake/Rafer Alston
SG John Salmons/Jamal Crawford
SF Chris Bosh/Josh Smith
PF Al Horford/Udonis Haslem
C David Lee/Brad Miller
rusty
May 11th, 2010
1:03 am
jj can you please take northcyde with you
rusty
May 11th, 2010
1:06 am
northcyde
be serious, do you think rose,wade or lebron woud let jj dribble for 20secs at a time & take bad shots,be real man
AceDawg
May 11th, 2010
1:32 pm
Joe Johnson, and Jamal Crawford, were letdowns in the end. Definitely the lack of ball movement on offensive and movement without the ball on defense were evident. Vince Carter is solid, but he dribbles by one guy at the three point line and steams in for a dunk muliple times? C’mon. And Orlando was always open for 3’s, the main reason they sunk so many. I had Woodson’s back as the Hawks got better, but this year they took a step back in the playoffs from the year before, and its time to shake things up and see if a coach with more offensive prowess can step in.
Also, Mike Bibby might not even be able to guard me! He’s slow and such a liability at this point. Frankly, Teague should have been playing more because he seems better at assisting and defending.
Jamal Crawford doesn’t play much D either.
I give Horford and Josh Smith passing grades for playing hard if nothing else.
sam'l
May 11th, 2010
2:44 pm
Tom Thibadeau………..Boston defensive coach
Has experience……knows how to put together unshakable defense
let him hire his offensive coordinator
timbo
May 13th, 2010
5:56 pm
It take talent to get talent. I say, give New orleans a call and dangle Jsmoove for either, CP3 or Collison