Atlanta Hawks Squawks Game 3: Magic 105, Hawks 75

Atlanta fans frankly do suck, but that’s no excuse for JJ’s comments. Sounds like he doesn’t care about Atlanta anymore, which probably means he’s on his way out. And no matter how much anger people have toward him, that means it’ll be rebuilding time this summer. Because JJ’s unrestricted, it’s tough to envision a scenario where he walks and we get anything back besides (maybe) a token second round pick.

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From the previous blog:

Truth-serum,

Here you go lying about Horford AGAIN!

Why do you keep on misrepresenting the truth?

You said this: “By the way, Horford built his average of 2 blks against the bucks who had no center. When he play against the magic today he had 0 and last game one which is .5 blocks agame and closer to his season average of .41 pergame”

Wrong. Here’s the link: http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3213

Scroll down to postseason game log and you’ll find that Al had TWO blocked shots in both Game 1 AND Game 2. His blocks per game average for THIS series is now 1.3 / gm.

And, by the way, his regular season average was 1.11 blks / gm., NOT .41

STOP LYING. Or am I twisting your words somehow by cutting and pasting you post?

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FIRE WOODY

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MONDAY’S GAME IS GONNA BE UGLY. MAY BE DOWN 30 AFTER 1. LOL @ JOE NOT CARING ABOUT FANS. LOL!

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JOE WAS THE 3RD OR 4TH SCORING OPTION IN PHOENIX. HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A ROLE PLAYER. BUT THE HAWKS WERE DUMB ENOUGH TO GIVE HIM A PHAT CONTRACT.

FIRE WOODY

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The bottom line is we NEED Dwyane Wade in ATL. How the heck can he be happy in Miami? Their roster is !@#$ right now, even if they own us. S&T Joe and any other player besides Horford and Smoove for Wade. Wade won’t get another better off (Miami, rather). JOE WILL NOT GET US CLOSER TO ORLANDO CLEVELAND. THIS TEAM HAS GONE AS FAR AS IT POSSIBLY CAN

SVG IS PROBABLY YELLING AT HIS TEAM NOW, TELLING THEM TO SWEEP US ON MONDAY SO THEY CAN REST. HE IS NOT A GOOD COACH BUT HE HAS A SENSE OF URGENCY IN HIS GAMEPLAN

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SINCE JJ DON’T CARE ABOUT THE FANS THEN I DON’T GIVE A F%%% BOUT HIM. PRETEND LIKE YOU HURT FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON AND GET THE HELL ON WHEN ITS OVER.

FIRE WOODY

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Josh cant be helped because he’s delusional!!!!! Ship his ass outta here.. only way to fix that.. Billy Knight set this organization back ten years with all those blown lottery picks.. But dont worrry we will have a string of lottery picks again real soon the way this ship be sinkin fast like the titanic!!!!! Go Orlando inspite of your cluless coach vangundy..He remindes me of Bobby “should have retired 14 yrs ago” Cox……

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WOODY IS CLUELESS AS USUAL

FIRE WOODY

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nire, id say atlanta fans are pretty discerning rather than suck. how can you cheer something so pathetic as what we have seen now in the past 8 games? remember we have lost 6 of 8 showing no courage or cohesion while doing it. what has jj done in those eight games? his remarks suggests entitlement that starts at the top from BK during his tenure, to woody’s remarks recently that only former coaches can criticize and now jj’s remarks no one in the club house really cares who shows up. come on arent you a bit tired of seeing this “team” trounced?

personally, i have been waiting over fifty years for something to cheer about into mid may and june. that is what truly sucks.

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JJ’S COMMENT MIGHT CAUSE ME TO HIT THE RITZ AND GET DRUNK TONIGHT

FIRE WOODY

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Doc this Organization passed over Charlse Barkley for Jon “Contract”!!!! This organization has been dysfunctional for over 40 years. I feel bad for ya….What a looser of an organization. At least the Falcons reached the super bowl???

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Doc,

I’m not disagreeing that the Hawks deserved to be booed tonight. I would have booed too if I had been there. But I don’t think it can be seriously disputed that Atlanta fans suck compared to fans of other cities. For every pro sports team here, the team’s ranking in attendance lags behind their ranking in the standings. That makes sense, because most people who live in Atlanta were born/raised elsewhere and thus did not grow up being fans of Atlanta’s teams. That’s all I was saying.

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Their attendance lags because the Hawks are pretenders not contenders and the real fans know that!! They truly look clueless out there!! Orlando is puckin them by almost 30 points per game the past 3 years!!!! The Hawks last year were down by 50 in a game last year against Orlando.. Not a fluke. Now the whole world gets to see this ish on national TV!!!!!

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DOC YOU RIGHT. HOW CAN YOU EXPECT FANS TO SUPPORT LOSING? HOW CAN YOU EXPECT FANS TO SUPPORT A TEAM WHERE THE STAR PLAYER SAYS HE DOESN’T CARE IF THE FANS SHOW UP?

ITS MESSED UP WHEN THE TEAMS IN YOUR CITY BLAME THE FANS FOR THEM BEING SORRY AS HELL. WE NOT THE ONE DRAFTING PLAYERS. WE NOT THE ONE TRADING PLAYERS. WE NOT THE ONE GIVING OUT CONTRACTS TO PLAYERS THAT DON’T DO SH## FOR THE TEAM.

THE MANAGEMENT OF ALL THE TEAMS IN ATLANTA NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR MISTAKES AND QUIT BLAMING THE FANS.

FIRE WOODY

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Najeh Davenpoop…

Last week you rubutted everything I said about the Hawks not having a chance and wrote out all the reasons they would beat Orlando. Guess you’re not the expert you thought you were?

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I DON’T GO TO BRAVES, FALCONS AND HAWKS GAME CAUSE THEY SORRY AS HELL. I GOT OTHER THINGS TO DO THAN TO SEE THEM LOSE.

FIRE WOODY

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The ATL teams have very poor management! They continue to hire the wrong coaches draft the wrong players and think the fans should support average teams!

READ this….. I will boo if you do not put forth a great effort, this is the play-offs go out there and play your azz off and we will cheer your efforts and we will want you to return to the team!

Joe Johnson please leave this team and city, since you cannot show up in big games!

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O’Brien u cannot be serious about giving Joe a 5 year $75 mil deal. Are u kidding me.

Nobody is paying Joe $75 mil

Joe is leaving man just let it go.

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IF I PAID $80 TO WATCH THE HAWKS AND THEY QUIT PLAYING LIKE THEY DID TONIGHT I WOULD BOO TOO.

FIRE WOODY

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Joe Johnson is playing like his mind is somewhere else (N.Y. ANYBODY), Marvin Williams is a waste of money, maybe after the a-town pounding on monday night the spirit group might grow some balls and fire coach Woodson and let no show Joe walk with him….better yet, maybe Woody, Joe, Billy Knight and Josh Childress can get together and play guitar hero during the N.B.A FINALS and reminisce about what could have been.

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* opinions of people

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niremetal

You say this: “Atlanta fans frankly do suck”

Then, you say this: “It’s not Atlantans’ fault that they suck as fans, by the way.”

Why don’t you apologize for your interpositions, nullifications and insults? If what you say is true, then birds of a feather must flock together. So if we suck and you are here with use, then that means you suck too.

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If I’m JJ, I’m signing with the bulls. They have great PG play (so he wont have to handle the ball as much, and he wont have to defend other PGs as much).

And they have Hinrich, Deng, Noah and Gibson, so they should be competitive. The only way I see JJ going to the Knicks is if they sign another Max Guy (lebron, amare or bosh ).

Maybe the bulls will hire woody

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And O’Brien,

I completely co-sign. I have cousins in Chicago that have been tellin me they’re waiting for this offseason, and they say there’s PLENTY of buzz in Chicago about JJ. They need a 2-gaurd and another frontcourt peice.

Rose, JJ, Deng, Noah, Gibson, Hinrich, another frontcourt player…

They’d look good.

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I dont know why Atl fans keep trashing their team after loosing to the Magic. You have to just accept the Magic is a superior team all around. Orlando has the no. 1 team defense in these playoffs and again team defense. Its not just DH. And you have to definetely give credit to SVG, he is and awesome coach and motivator and gets in players face pushing them to the limits and still the magic players love him. Orlando has one of the 3 top benches in the league and they can afford to rest their players anytime during a game with confidence that the others 5 (thats right 10 players rotation) or 7 players coming off the bench will get the job done. Perfect example today when DH was on the bench the magic bench increased their score margin. You Atl fans should think about the missing piece that you guys really need and really is a good center and build up a bench. Your coach manage to get you 53 wins with the current players. So really is not even Atl fault. REALITY MAGIC ARE SO MUCH BETTER TEAM. GO MAGIC GO MAGIC

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Fans are not the issue here!! Its the pathetic product that has been a no show against the Orlando Magic the past 2.5 yrs and climbing!! Orlando marched up the ladder of success the past 5 yrs like the Hawks, the big difference is the Orlando Magic did not have 4 lottery picks in a row to screw up like the Hawks have..Poor Atlanta!! The Fans deserve better…..

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*You wouldn’t see as many FANS trash the Hawks…

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This Is Marvin Williams team not JOE JOHNSONS!!! Go Marvin “tin man” Williams.. Are you off to see the wizard in OZ this summer????????

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nire, seems someone is trying to deflect what is important here, lousy athletic play and take it out on atlanta fans. i think ill stick to the subject going forward the hawks suck not the fans tonight. i think if the asg brings a better product maybe things will work out as far as fans go. maybe not, but after 14 straight losses in the second round and never a move past the second round in the entire years here the expectation may be hard to overcome. i have waited for the second championship since bob petit did it with the hawks in st louis. i suck for continuing to hope for something better i guess. my bad.

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“Because the Hawks draw fewer fans than teams that don’t even make the playoffs or that get knocked out even more quickly. There are plenty of teams with fewer wins than the Hawks who drew more fans, but none that had more wins but drew fewer fans.”

teams… located where? how long has the team been there? have they had consistent winning or elite product in the past?

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thanks slim for your concerns.

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I’m so sick and tired of this team. I cannot believe I sat through four years of bad basketball to watch this core group reach a crescendo of getting swept two years in a row in the 2nd round of the playoffs without being competitive. I mean this is what we maintained the course for with this group? I agree with what Michael Wilboun said about the Hawks on PTI. This is absolutely the dumbest in the NBA. I’m so ready for the summer to see what changes are going to be made.

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slim, frankly it doesnt matter what they do on monday. either win or lose it doesnt matter as far as i am concerned. they showed less this year than they did with all the injuries last year even if they were to win one here. i think the magic are on a mission and have a goal and that is to put all hawks fans and the organization out of their misery by winning in four. i think they will achieve this goal.

before the playoff started i wondered if this team resembled a true winner or a lackluster team built for the regular season, like the wiz were. i now have my answer. joe johnson is the equivalent to arenas talent wise. it would be detrimental for us to get tied up to jj the way the wiz got in bed with arenas. let someone else make that mistake.

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And doc – I never bring this up out of the blue. It’s always in response to some discussion regarding Atlanta’s fans. But the reason I like to talk about it is that I studied urban planning in college and find comparing the infrastructure/demographics/etc of cities to be very interesting.

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ya – as a fan who puts effort in cheering them on at the games and trying to support them and give a home court advantage, it is painful to see the effort [or lack of] at times though out the game. and yeah, i’m pretty sure the ATL was behind joe and for him to say something like that is pretty hurtful to people who have been supporting him.

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SPOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Heart. All I want to see is a team that plays with heart. Last year in games 3 and 4, Atlanta played tough but the Cavs wound up winning in the end. Still the Hawks played with heart. Two years ago people predicted Boston would sweep the Hawks. With grit and heart, Atlanta forced the Celtics to seven games. Why? Because the Hawks had heart.

This year’s team in Game 3? No heart. No passion. I don’t expect much from them on Monday. And if I were Woody, I would put DNP by Joe Johnson’s name in Game 4.

P.S. DON’T FIRE WOODY!!!

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yes nire, you brought it up out of the blue tonight, whether you realize it or admit it on both blogs so i guess you wanted to talk about it. not sure why you have this ax to grind or buzz up you butt, but you do.

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No, doc, JJ led it off with his comments and Jeff Schultz continued it with his article and the 50 fan comments that on the last MC thread and on Schultz’s thread, all before my comment to lead off this particular thread . It’s not like I just popped up out of nowhere and started bashing Hawks fans.

And stop acting like I’m bashing the fans who DID show up. They are not what I’m talking about. I’ve made that clear a billion times but for some reason you refuse to believe that. What I’m talking about is that most people in the metro area don’t give a damn one way or the other about the Hawks (or any other Atlanta team). That is a completely separate issue from the fans who DID show up and boo the team, because that group of fans clearly DOES care about the Hawks.

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Whatever, doc. You can go check Schultz’s article and the fan comments there if you don’t believe me when I say that I was the first one to talk about this. And if you’re going to play the role of Astro Joe and twist the meaning of what I’m saying (not once in this thread or anywhere else have I criticized the fans who DO show up), then I’m done talking to you about this.

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*wasn’t. Clearly, I’m up too late. Nite.

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Obviously, Joe Johnson doesn’t give a damn but it also appears that he doesn’t have a clue, therefore, I’ll try to give him one. While it may not bother him or some of his other teammates being perceived as heartless, cowardly quitters by all basketball fans everywhere, it is a total embarrassment to show pride in your team and have that team make you seem like a total idiot for supporting them in the first place. That’s why people were booing you, Joe, since you obviously haven’t a clue.

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The league may be flourishing but the game is suffering!

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Joe Johnson couldn’t care less, build the team around Al Horford, he cares more!!

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One would think that they would have more personnel and professional pride then this, even if the game was a pick up game held in a players only gym. I played a little, and before I got beat like this, especially three games in a row, I would have fought with my teammates, the opposition and the coach. What a joke, hell, you have to blow it up, there is no choice, you cannot go into next year without major changes.

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Nire:

You’re one of my most trusted bloggers when it comes to
NBA knowlede. Especially the CBA.
I kind of disagree on the rebuiding issue.
I hope Mr. Sund is a visionary who has been anticipating this day.
Maybe not seeing his team quit, but…anyway looking ahead.
This is not the Hawks which BK blew up, what ?, seems like 1000 yrs.
ago. This team has a core [even] minus Joe.
An astute GM can/will keep this team where it is and a new coach
can/will make our team elite.
I cannot type fast enough to craft a plan now that he may have in
mind. But my next few words will touch on some positives.

1st – fans have a right & should boo the team off the ct. for
lack of effort (quitting) or in today’s case, never starting.

Clyde & others – Joe fulfilled his end of the bargain as well as his contract. We even got more than we bargained for.
Atl. is looked upon differently now than before Joe.
I don’t care what you say. He had everything in the world to do
with that. We should be appreciative even if he leaves.
He was never a leader although thrust into that position.
Along with Al if we had an Alpha Dawg & a coach to go with them
we would really have something.
If he leaves, wish him well.

JeJe & others – we aren’t gettn’ D.Wade.
Get over that one / it ain’t happening.
He’s not what we really need anyway.
Perhaps we can steal a young up & coming potential superstar
via trade with our chips if used wisely.
Even if we had D.Wade – we would not have won but maybe one game
against a superior team with a vastly superior coach anyway.

Slim – 40 yrs. has nothin’ to do with now.
ASG is working their butts off with limited resources
due to ‘Belkin’. He [Belkin] set us back more tha anyone.
ASG & Sund are on the right track.
Quit fretting about:
Marv, Bibby, Zaza, Josh, etc. & their contracts.
Sund signed them to manageable, tradeable contracts.
Not to mention they gave Wdsn everything he wanted.
He has no room to complain.

I would like to see a “fresh” new coach with a new direction,
same core players, keep the ones who want to:
*put Team 1st
*play hard
*play smart
*play together
*play to win
New Coach Must Have:
(1)Offense – Identity:
*which includes ball & player movement
*plus ball reversal
(2) Defense: System:
*ability to adapt to personel
*ability to adapt to opponent

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Co-sign Grandad, not like you need me to, but I gotta real good view of Woody’s huddle, and they don’t respect him. They listen to Jamal, Mike, and Joe more than anyone especially Josh and Al. I watched Josh and Stackhouse play during the offseason, I really wish we had signed him. We really need some old with some new, and a new coach that is going to hold them accountable. All kids want discipline and direction (at least that’s what my mom always tried to convince me of) (smile)

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I’m tired of hearing you all talk about how the team “quit” today. Make no mistake that the team, overall, did not play very well, but the team as a whole did not quit, some individuals simply didn’t have their heads or hearts in the game, but that doesn’t make it alright to call out the whole team. Some of the guys out on the floor for the Hawks gave it their all until the very last minutes they were out on the court, and it just doesn’t feel right to criticize them also. Al’s comments tell the story well. The game isn’t dependent on one player and sometimes, as a player, you wish it was, since you would have it under your own control and could control your own destiny, but this is a team sport, and if everyone does not buy into the philosophy and do their part, it brings the whole team down. It’s extremely frustrating since you cannot force others to act as you want them to, and even if you give it your all, individually, your efforts may be in vein unless the whole team does the same. With that being said, I find it, morally wrong to criticize or insult the team, when I know it is not a team issue, but more of an individual/personnel-related issue.

Some players just refuse to leave their old ways, regardless of the result, and in some cases, coaches encourage these ways, even when they are not guaranteeing success, simply because they have brought success in the past. For those of you that have been following the Hawks for the past few years, you know what I mean by this.

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Also, I can fully understand Joe’s reaction. I’m not saying that I agree with him speaking negatively in regards to the fans, but his reaction was very predictable. He likely did not mean what he said, but was letting his emotions do the talking since he was still in the heat of the moment during that interview. As an athlete, you are basically trained to suppress your emotions from the public for various reasons, but sometimes that is very difficult to do. To some players, this sport is not simply a game, it is their life. For fans, the sport provides entertainment, but for a player it is more than that. This sport is the athlete’s life, it is what he does for a living. And if knowing that what you have been able to achieve and what you strive is worthy of boos is hurtful, very, very hurtful. Obviously, it is frustrating when your shots won’t go down, but it only makes things worse when you get insulted on top of that. There’s a lot of pressure on Joe, especially when the Hawks lose and it’s a lot to put up with. That’s one of the main reasons that you typically hear almost robotic responses from Joe during interviews after Hawks losses, because he is trying to hide his emotions from the public. Well, today Joe let some of those emotions loose. It’s only natural, he’s human. What Joe said was not nearly as rude or personal as some of the filth that I’ve seen posted on here in response to player performances. We all lose our cool at times, Joe just happened to lose his cool when the media was around.

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A azz whippin is a azz whippin

FIRE WOODY

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I don’t think niremetal’s opinion is entirely wrong, but I don’t really follow the logic that “Atlanta fans suck” because “most of Atlanta’s population is transplants”. If someone was born and raised in Chicago and moved to the ATL a year ago, as far as I’m concerned, they are a Chicago fan living in Atlanta, not an Atlanta fan; therefore, they wouldn’t be included in the group “Atlanta fans”. “Atlanta fans” are natives of Atlanta who care about sports to some extent, whether they care about local teams or not. A more accurate statement is to say that a much smaller percentage of Atlanta’s population is made up of Atlanta fans than in a city like Philadelphia.

And even there, I’m not sure I agree that that’s the reason for the attendance issues. I think more than any demographic reason, the reason for Atlanta’s spotty attendance record is that Atlanta’s fan base is driven by stars, not by teams. On the other hand, fan bases in Northeastern cities where the pro franchises have much stronger and older ties to the city care more about the teams than the stars. Michael Vick had the dome full of Falcons fans every Sunday, Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz at the top of their games had Atlanta Fulton-County Stadium full, and Dominique Wilkins had the Omni buzzing when he was here.

We just haven’t really had the top-tier, ESPN highlight reel stars in this city that other cities have had. In the all-but-impossible event that the Hawks trade Joe for Dwyane Wade, even if Wade never wins over 53 games here and never gets out of the 2nd round, I can almost guarantee that attendance will be significantly higher while he’s here than it is now. If that makes Atlanta fans somehow inferior so be it, but I don’t think this city as currently constituted is incapable of supporting a local franchise.

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Wow.

Chris Sheridan of ESPN.com (who has been covering the Hawks-Magic series) is on point.

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Utah i mean hate when hit a Y..anyway Monday on TNT u see the worst in basketball when u watch The hawks on TNT see J Johnson score 7pts see Josh smith rather help mothers with kids without a dad n job see Josh smith tank Game4 see 12,000 show up see orlando win by 45 also see Fans throw beer bottles at woodson n owners n GM who should be fired.If we only had Utah brass owner n coach he white that why Utah wins alot also remember use be New orleans Jazz to.sloan is Utah best coach he may never make but he has coachin n his team never quits like we do.Its orlando 120-65 over the AAA squad hawks under woodson (who will get his contract resigh) and coach us to another 2nd rd exit in 2011 also

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“I thought in Game 2 we really came out ready to play and competed, and lost it at the nine-minute mark of the fourth quarter,” Hawks coach Mike Woodson said. “But tonight was just unacceptable, and I have to take responsibility for that as coach. I’m not happy with our play, it wasn’t called for, and I don’t think anybody saw it coming.”

interestingly enough, do you know what happened at the 4th quarter 9th minute mark on game 2?

AFTER AN ORL TURNOVER (travelling by Pietkus) Woody called a tImeout! AFTER AN OPPONENT’S TURN OVER!

Let us all give him resounding round of applause! There’s our coach everyone!

As for JJ:

The boos were normal and deserved for all the team. However, JJ tried his best to defend yesterday.

It was not lack of effort. His shots were not going down. I would call it a choke job or a result of an injury rather than lack of interest for the game.

Anyhow, with regard to his remarks, I think Drake (above) was spot on. JJ is not articulate and has knack at saying bizarre things in post game interviews. It’s like he does not even think in what he is saying.

Anyhow, I think we should offer him exactly what we offered him in the summer. Not a cent more.

Eventually work out a sign and trade which allows us to get anything back in return.

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Maybe if JJ doesn’t care about the fans, it is time to let him go. Find someone who has enough pride in himself and the team to WANT to improve!!!

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Been a HAWKS FAN some 35 years. Still one. The HAWKS need a coach who has been there and knows how to get a “chip” Avery Johnson or Mark Jackson would be my choice. If Wade is avaible try to get him, but get a coah who has been there (A chapionship ring) first. We have the talent, but chemistry wins

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I keep hearing Woody and the guys brag about their solid 3 quarters in Orlando for game 2. The truth is it was ONE and a HALF solid quarters. The box score looked like this.

First quarter 32-27 Orlando took the quarter
Second quarter 30 – 17 ATL took their ONLY quarter of the series through 3 games
Third quarter 35 – 26 Orlando again took the quarter
Fourth quarter 28 – 15 Orlando again took the quarter.
Total 112 – 98

Looks like Woody just wants to save his job and the players want to save their jobs by acting like they accomplished something in game 2. If it wasn’t for the second quarter (the only quarter they actually won) it would have been easily another 30 + pt blow out. The Hawks need to stop claiming moral victories, take a truthful look in the mirror and asses the way they have been utterly dominated. They have won ONE quarter. Not 3

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Woody called a timeout after an Orlando turnover. Nuff said. He was hired because he was the cheapest option.

Please fire him or the seats will be empty next year.

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JJ is correct…….. the Fans don’t have to show up, and guess what……..the Spirit will continue to go deeper into DEBT.

For an organization who lost over 10 Million last season……this is getting worse……..and the poorer the players Play……..The Poorer the team becomes.

JJ never really will get that I guess, his and the teams performance, are tied directly to how much money management, and the organization makes.

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Grandad, 40 years has everything to do with now.. The Atlanta Hawks are keeping up their tradition of being dysfuntional and losing big games and series.. This one in the present takes the cake!! This is a HUGH SETBACK DUDE!!!!!!! For years to come!!!!!! Start over Rick!! You’re gonna earn your big salary now……

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Vava,

U should not blame woody for taking a timeout at the 9 min mark w/o looking at the big picture.

Did the hawks have a bad possession the last couple times down? Was Orlando doing something different? Maybe he just wanted to make sure hawks were on the same page for the stretch run.

As for JJ, they ask him if he is costing himself $, and he says no. That is not a good response either. What he should say is that’s not on his mind right now, or its up to whichever team wants him to make that decision.

In my opinion, For him to respond no, it sends the wrong message, and it makes him sound indifferent to his performance.

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The most important decision that will face The Hawks this offseason will not be whether to keep JJ or JS or any other player. It will be WHO IS THE NEXT HAWKS HEAD COACH.

THERE IS SOME VERY GOOD TALENT ON THIS TEAM!!!

With the right coach, we will not take as big a backwards step as you think.

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Did the Bucks quit?

Did the Bobcats quit?

Did the Hawks quits/

Does Elmer Fudd have trouble with the letter R?

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“I just tanked on being aggressive and was just taking the shot when it was there,” Johnson said.

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Dissappointing yet again. We never seem to give the effort to see what this team can do. I’ve said it repeatedly, they’d rather lose w/o trying so nobody will ever know what’s possible than try their best and lose a tough series.

Why not go out 4-0 in a series of heatbreaking losses. I can take that, but laying down 3 straight games. YOU OWE THE BUCKS AN APOLOGY!

This team has sealed it’s fate. JeJe will get his wishes in July. Hopefully someone will learn from this lesson. Effort, professionalism, character. We’re just not showing it on the floor, on the sidelines or in the stands.

We care Joe, obviously we’ve learned you don’t.

Thank you to Jamal for at least making real honest comments on the podium.

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The best part of the game yesterday was at halftime in the club section, I turned around and guess who was there? Rudy Gay. I’m really hoping that somebody or something is telling him to come to Atlanta. I told him that he needs to consider Atlanta, and he had a little smile on his face.

Let JJ walk, unless he takes less than what we already offered. Trade Marvin for a bag of hot fries. He truly is one of the worse starting players in the league. Drafting him was one of the biggest mistakes the hawks have ever made, but it was even worse for Sund to resign him for 8 million a year. I will not renew my season tickets if have have to look at this guy become the invisible man for another year. Make whatever moves you need to make to get Rudy Gay in here to replace Joe. Bring back Childress at all cost. Start Teague, and make Bibby the Atlanta version of Jason Terry. Do not bring back Woodson. He has done a good job with this group, but he is not a good enough coach to get this group over the hump.

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I don’t know why everyone’s so upset with JJ and his comments, since we all all knew deep down he didn’t intend to resign. His play and remarks only demonstrate he’s decided to check out early. As frustrating and disappointing as Woodson has been to us fans at times, can you imagine how much greater that frustration and disappointment must be for the players?

How motivated can we expect our key players to be when they’ve routinely been allowed to do as they please, with absolutely no accountability from Woodson whatsoever, and have, as a result, developed a sense of total IMMUNITY from their HC and fans. They know Woodson isn’t going to challenge them for what the do or don’t do, or allow anyone to challenge their position/status on the team, or with him, especially any young players.

Now, they know he’s capable of holding players accountable and taking actions when things go awry, because they’ve routinely witnessed him go overboard when it comes to young players like SStaudemire, ALaw and JTeague. How can there not be a divide between the players when Woodson has created a divide between the way he treats certain players?

When it comes to the divide between our young players vs our veterans, Woodson’s approach seems to have fostered an US AGAINST THEM mentality. How can you expect players like Teague and ALaw to learn anything from Bibby when he mocks them and the fact they’ll never get a chance to challenge him, no matter how one dimensional, limited and nonproductive he is.

We lost JChildress because of that same stupid mentality. JJ is gone and there’s nothing we can do about it. However, get rid of Woodson and we solve 2, maybe 3, problems with one firing.

(1) We get rid of a very limited HC with an assistant coach’s mentality and approach.

(2) We get rid of the PG problem(Woodson is the only HC stupid enough to start Bibby and/or play him major mins.

(3) We get rid of the problem with Marvin, either by benching, trading or actually including him in the OFF.

Who knows, losing JJ, and getting rid of Woodson might increase our chances of resigning Childress. Starting him, along with a real PG, and acquiring a quality SG, either by trade, FA, or the draft, could end up making us a much better team. Imagine a starting lineup of:

PG-JTeague, SG-?, PF-Smoove, C-Horford, SF-Childress, and a bench of: Zaza, Crawford, Marvin, Bibby, RMorris, JoSmith and ?.

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THE SEASON IS SAID & DONE NOW. LIKE I SAY GET RID OF JOE JOHNSON HE SUCKS AND BASICALLY SAID F*** THE CITY OF ATLANTA AND FANS U DESERVED TO GET BOOED WHAT U EXPECT ESP U SINCE U ARE SUPPOSE TO BE THIS ALL STAR AND CAN’T EVEN SHOOT WELL AT HOME AT LEAST THEIR COACH THINKS THEY DESERVED THE BOOS

FURTHER SPEAKING PICK UP A TRUE CENTER THIS YEAR BECAUSE AL IS TOO GOOD TO HAVE TO STRUGGLE BECAUSE HE HAS TO PLAY A POSITION HE CAN’T AND GET DOMINATED BY D HOWARD. GET A LEADER PICK UP D-WADE STOP BEING SO STINGY WITH YO MONEY HAWKS ORGANIZATION!!

IM WITH EVERYBODY ELSE FIRE WOODY! YEAH U HAVE GOT US 50+WINS THIS YR AND 3 PLAYOFFS APPEARANCES BUT EVERY APPEARANCE HAS BEEN A WASTE OF TIME!! I BELIEVED THE HAWKS COULD HAVE MADE IT BUT THEY LACK A GOOD COACH CENTER POINT GUARD AND LEADER

SPEAKING POINT GUARD THEY NEED TO DEVELOP JEFF TEAGUE BECAUSE HE’S YOUNG AND CAN BE REALLY GOOD LET BIBBY COME OFF THE BENCH NEXT YR GOSH

SOME MAJOR CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE ASAP!!!

HAWKS FAN WHAT A SEASON!!

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Rod, I know you’re forever hating the play of Marvin. But as I continue to say over and over, the big problem is ownership. Until they’re willing to go over the luxury tax to get talent and to fill out the bench, they will have this problem. With a more defensive minded PG who could also get into the lane (and a better offensive minded coach), I truly believe Marvin would be able to average 14-15 ppg. Imagine if you added R. Brewer, B. Haywood, and Salmons or Outlaw to this lineup (with a new coach) how much better the team would be. Or maybe made a trade for Devin Harris to play the point. Or even signed Felton to back up Teague for two years and traded away Bibby. Those moves would only be a combined $16-$17 mil. And the Hawks would be in the same ball park of player payroll as all the other teams that are still in the playoffs now.

I’m going to make a list, and every one tell me what game doesn’t seem to fit on the list.

Jerry Sloan
Doc Rivers
Van Gundy
Mike Woodson
Alvin Gentry
Greg Popovich
Mike Brown
Phil Jackson.

Now you take the coach you think doesn’t fit in that list. And do the research and find out that his coaching staff is operating on half the budget of the rest of the team also. Now tell me you think they’re operating in the same league.

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Thanks for the excellent summary, MC. You are doing a fine job presenting as many sides of the issues as you can. I appreciate it.

In all fairness, Woody and JJ were the ones who led the Hawks out of the NBA doldrums and back to the playoffs. They hung through all the hard times and persevered.

That said, the stakes and the expectations are different now. It seems one good to decent series in the playoffs is all we are going to get with Woody and JJ. Two years ago, Woody could just lean on JJ and iso him, and, let’s not forget, Iso-Joe was phenomenal versus the Celtics as he single-handedly took the offense on his shoulders and delivered three stunning home wins on an array of sensational and clutch iso buckets. BUT, that was then and this is now. The team has grown to the point where iso-ing Joe is a detriment rather than the only hope to win.

The biggest problem with Joe is his defense. He simply does not want to sustain any strenuous effort on the defensive end (which is often why he plays more with his hands reaching than with his legs…how many untimely fouls has he committed especially late in games?)…and when he has to sustain his effort to stay out of foul trouble, like he had to covering John Salmons in the first series, it drains him mentally and physcially to the point where he lacks the legs and focus to score. This is what’s wrong with JJ in this playoff series. The Bucks series drained him, all because he hadn’t bargained for having to play hard defense.

The other thing is leadership. JJ and Woody have a tacit understanding that Joe can pretty much do whatever he wants…and unfortunately Joe’s demeanor on the court does very little to excite the players around him. He’s painfully introspective and at times just plain sullen. You look across the way at the energy and enthusiasm the Magic are getting from their guards and there’s no comparison.

Where Woody has failed is in insisting on ball movement, proper spacing and smart play calls. Part of this is tied to the green light he gives JJ, and thus, others on the team (worst of all Josh Smith) want the same freedom. In Game 5 versus the Bucks, with a 13 point 4th quarter lead, the lazy Hawks just started fouling which had them over the limit with an eternity left in the quarter, and the ball movement stopped, largely because Iso-Joe was trying to do his thing , but the ball was taken away from him at two awful times because of JJ’s sloppy sideways dribbling. BUT…here’s one of the most unbelievable stats imaginable: up 13 in the 4th Quarter AT HOME, and the Hawks NEVER once go to the foul line in the ENTIRE quarter (0-0), while the visiting Bucks go (15-18).

THEN, Woody says AFTER the game, “I want more ball movement.” And even though he got it from the players in the next two games, we don’t see a lot of it in the Magic series and as Josh Smith said yesterday, “the ball stayed on one side of the floor.”

Speaking of Josh Smith…and this is at the gist of Woody’s failure to insist upon movement and smart offensive plays…how in the world after all this time and scrutiny, is Josh Smith playing point forward 30 feet from the basket? And even worse, hoisting up bricks at terrible times? Clearly, Woody hasn’t defined the offensive roles…which was confirmed again yesterday when Woody told Josh to pass after missing another brick and Josh gave him the “whatever” look.

The good news is the Hawks have a blue collar hustler and leader by example on the team in Al Horford. And Jamal Crawford gets after it pretty hard, and so does Marvin when he’s not walking a round in a funk. Other than that…this team is LAZY…and the coach lets them get away with it.

Lastly, what this team needs is a coach who can get the players in great shape and play with great intensity and enthusiasm…and one who can actually put some trust into rookies and younger players to bring them more quickly into the fold…the truth be told, had the Hawks drafted Brandon Jennings he wouldn’t have gotten any run from Woody…and as we saw in the Bucks’ series, what a waste that would have been. make you wonder what Jeff Teague would be looking like in this series, other than another demoralized Woody rookie.

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Joe i have always supported you, and for you 2 come out and say fu#k the fans i am a shame of you, yeah you sit around and collect your 40,000 pay check every 2 weeks why us fan spend our hole check to go the games and support the hawks, me personally i dont give a fu#k 2 because im financially stable, so joe take your rabbit a$$ up 2 new york and be happy FU#K YOU JOE.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

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MY BAD JOE YOU COLLECT 1,000,000 DOLLAR EVERY 2 WEEKS AND US FAN SUPPORT YOU SO FU#K YOU 2.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

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The hawks have 2 make a choice between horford and josh this year who do they keep.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

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RICK SUND SOLOMON ALABI WILL BE THERE AT PICK 24# DON’T MISS OUT.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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Ken- With all due respect, I like a lot of what you say but I’m afraid you always overvalue Childress. He’s a guy who was somewhat limited on the offensive end (no jumpshot) and he’s been hurt half the time over the last 2 yrs. And I doubt that playing against the scrub players he has gone up against over the last 2 yrs has improved his game. He’s lost 2 crucial yrs to improve his game in the NBA that he will never get back. I would like to have him back (at a reasonable price) to come off the bench but not to start.

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Isn’t Chills in Greece?

Situation in Greece isn’t so great. I wonder if that’ll play a factor into anything Chills decides to do.

I know that seems like an irrelevant matter, but it’s possible.

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Horford’s a keeper. Everyone else is expendable. Plain and simple. Never thought I’d say that about Smith, but for some reason I dont think he’ll ever get IT. Maybe its just Woody’s dumb…? Idk? But as of today, I wouldn’t be that upset if we put a package together for Smoove(throw in Bibby and Marvin if possible) for a center and a pg. Move Horford to PF, start Jamal at sg, pick up a sf and a couple of bench players(with the $ we save from JJ), and move on. It’s not like we’re going to win a championship anytime soon. Dwight and Lebron aren’t going anywhere. Remember when you always had to get past Boston or Philly back in the day, or when the Bulls always stood in the way in the Jordan era? Well that’s how it’s going to be for a while. Maybe not as dominant as those teams were, but it’s going to be tough. Especially if Stern has something to say about it. Btw, is Woody still in town? And one more thing, there is no way in hell, I’d give Joe max $. He shoulda took what they offered the 1st time around. He’s losing $ as we speak.

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Mitch,

Very good post. Don’t agree 100% but you are very close.

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TERRELL i like horford 2 but we still can’t over look what josh bring 2 the table.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

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I know Darrell, but he’s the only player that we could get anything for. Who’s going to trade for Duck or Bibby? And I dont think we’d lose too much with Horford in that spot. Highlights maybe? But that’s about it. A lot of missed free throws, jumpers, and temper tandrums wouldn’t be missed though.

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I am disappointing in the Hawks ownership group for not issuing an apology about the disappointing play, and the horrible comments made by JJ.

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I think the ATL fans should cheer for Dwight Howard, hell at least he’s from Atlanta. If Joe Johnson want to blame the Hawks crowd, then the fans have every right to boo his sorry a** and cheer for Dwight, because to me this team has quit on Mike Woodson, the Hawks organization and the fans.

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If D Wade’s name is brought up one more time, I’m going to scream. He’s not coming to Atlanta. He’s legs have more miles on them than JJ’s. Get over it!! Move on!!

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Mitch- nice post the only thing I disagree with is the part about them hanging in there through the rough times. Both knew what they were getting into. JJ wanted to be the man, but he didn’t know how too. Woody wanted the notoriety that comes with bringing a team out of the cellar. However, when face with adversity both were exposed, and in the long run Woody really hurt JJ. Woody and JJ killed the younger player’s confidence, and stunned their growth. I give them props for the progression of this team, but that’s it.

Nire- the comment about Atlanta’s fan base was very disrespectful. I’ve been on the blog for five years. Generally the people who make those comments always live out of town, or they never buy season tickets. I’m not a season ticket holder, but I do attend a lot of home games. With the economy in the tank, the fans that pay their hard earned money deserve the right to boo anybody that coaches like they have no common sense, and players that play with no emotions. The players get paid good money to do something they love. I work hard for my money, so if I see this type of behavior I will boo all damn day. People kill me when they start generalizing and stereotyping.

Fire Woody
Sign and trade JJ
Bench Bibby or work him in with the JJ trade
Bring Chill back, and let Marvin come off the bench
Hire Mark Jackson
Sign a legit center, and a hard nose power forward to bring off the bench (he must have an attitude)

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DawgNole nice post

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When MC says that the Hawks were booing in the 1st quarter, he’s exactly right. After JJ missed that 3rd jumpshot, the people around me started booing a little. After the missed lay-up in which he went hard to the hole but the lay-up hit the back rim, the boos and cusswords started flying. At halftime, the noise was deafening. And the mass exodus toward the exits started midway in the 3rd.

I’ve only been in a stadium in which the home team booed like that . . and that was a few years ago in Nashville, when the Titans fans booed Vince Young off the field.

JJ either made a comment out of frustration and emotion . . . or he purposely did it to burn any bridge linking him and the Hawks going into next season. Very uncharacteristic of that dude to make a stupid comment like that, after he played one of the worst games of his Hawk career ( arguably THE WORST, in my opinion ).

Josh Smith isn’t winning any hearts over either, although I thought he played much better yesterday, than he did in Game 2. But now, it’s almost like people are specifically looking for him to take plays off, in order to throw criticism toward him. If JJ has almost completely lost the fan base, Smoove had to lose about 50% of his support just because of the last 3 games alone.

If this team loses tomorrow night, I at least want them to go down with a fight. If they lay down again . . . wow. I’ll then have to see how the Magic play the rest of the way, and if they’re really just that good. ( which I doubt ).

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Lewis and JeJe . . . you guys need to go to a Fans 101 class. Orlando is a division rival. This isn’t some SEC alliance where you cheer for your SEC rival when they play a team from another conference ( which I don’t understand at all ). I’m a U of Tennessee grad, and I NEVER want to see Florida or Alabama win ANYTHING in football . . . and love to see Kentucky and Vanderbilt lose in basketball.

(( bleep )) Orlando. No way I’m cheering for a division rival . . a rival that has prevented us from advancing in the playoffs. Orlando fans wouldn’t cheer for us, if we were kicking their azz in a playoff series. You won’t see San Antonio fans cheer for Phoenix, or Utah fans cheer for the Lakers. And Boston fans damn sure ain’t cheering for Cleveland, if they get knocked out.

Don’t cheer for the Magic. If anything, cheer for the Suns.

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Thanks vava and Lacsho…I appreciated your posts as well. Good points.

I think bringing Josh Childress back would be outstanding…his defense, toughness, hustle and finishing ability off the baseline are exactly what this team needs. I will never EVER forget games where the Hawks were getting blown out by 30 and Childress was still playing his heart out. He’s a winner.

I think if we can get a good center by dealing Josh Smith we should do it, although I am very curious to see what will become of Smoove if and when he accepts coaching. If I were coaching him, I’d keep him in the short corner away from the ball and tell him to step in on penetrations for dish dunks, or to crash hard from the backside on frontside shots, the way he did to win the Magic game…only that time he had to come from the 3 point line where his current coach allows him to camp out.

I am excited to watch the backcourt of Teague and Crawford next year. And maybe the Hawks will finally get in shape and run teams out of the gym.

I thought the female analyst yesterday (I am blanking on her name, can anyone remind me?) on ESPN was spot-on, even though the truth hurts. She kept imploring the Hawks to get some energy going, and wondered as we do why they don’t exert their athleticism. He comments on Smoove and Marvin were on the $$$, imo. Boy she really hammered Smoove for his lethargic spells…something that really needs to be further pointed out to him if he ever wishes to make the All-Star Team.

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Peter

JJ never really will get that I guess, his and the teams performance, are tied directly to how much money management, and the organization makes.

**************************

Peter . . . this team has won 65 home games the past 2 years ( 65 – 17 record over 2 yrs ). That’s tied for the best 2 year record in Hawks history. The Hawks have put a damn good product out on the floor these past 2 seasons at home. And the fans STILL didn’t show up.

JJ made a very dumb statement yesterday. He definitely should’ve kept his mouth closes. But from the other side, it’s not only the fans not showing up . . . it’s the fans showing up to cheer for another team ( or a superstar ), that is the REAL PROBLEM in my opinion.

The Hawks may have only 10,000 fans that are die hards and love that team no matter what. the other 8 – 9,000 simply go to Hawks games because . . .

- it’s the “in thing” to do at that time ( like going to a playoff game )

- their job gave them free tickets to the game

- a superstar is in town

- Chicago or New York are in town

It’s been plenty times over JJ’s career as a Hawk, that the team has played in front of 8 – 12,000 people. . even when they were good. Those comments he made stems from some of that feeling.

Like I said, he shouldn’t have said what he said. It was an ill-advised comment at the worst possible time ( especially with the garbage way he’s been playing ). But if you see where he’s coming from, I can see how he and the Hawks take an “us against the world” mentality.

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Northcyde…

who you supposed to be to tell someone who they are supposed to root for?? what type sh*t are you on? we dont have a heated rivalry with anyone.. this isnt Saints V. Falcons we’re talking. Orlando is a well coached (demands effort), skilled, unselfish, unified TEAM. they happen to have guys on their roster who personally ive been fans of for a long time who deserve to be champions. when my team is no longer competing i usually go with the roster that has guys from the south. thats just me. Orlando fits the bill. Jameer has a good story, given the tragic death of his father and is injury that robbed him of a career year last year. any ATLANTA native is going to root for their homeboy so you might wanna quit dog. if someone chooses to support another teams championship run that doesnt make them disloyal. even Brandon Jennings wished us well after his team bowed out. everyone isnt interested in supporting the queen..

if and when the Hawks are out.. ill be supporting Gentry’s bunch and the Orlando Magic.

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” The Hawks may have only 10,000 fans that are die hards and love that team no matter what. the other 8 – 9,000 simply go to Hawks games because . . .”

where are you people coming up with this stuff. just sweeping statements and generalizations based on mere opinions. where is your empirical evidence?

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The future of the Hawks is as uncertain as ever now:

- JJ may walk . . and NOT agree to a sign and trade

- if that happens, we’lll have to replace his production both offensively and defensively.

- Chillz may declare his intention to come back to the NBA, but may draw a contract so expensive, that the Hawks look to involve him in a sign and trade, rather than using his services

- Need to replace a coach

- Need to find a defensive center

- Still need to find a PG

- Need to find a spot up sharpshooter

- could use another solid rebounder

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Mitch her name is Doris Burke..

Joe had been throwing his teammates under the bus for years so it was only a matter of time before he got the fans too.

We have to make some moves this summer. The Hawks don’t have much to spend so they should focus on young cheap talent who might not have been given the opportunity to show what they can do.. If Mo opts out I say we should sign Gerald Green. He will be cheaper than Mo. He is still very young, shoots a nice percentage from behind the arc, hits his free throws, and unlike Mo he can actually finish at the rim in traffic.He is also 6′8 so he is bigger than Mo . Ive already stated how I want Travis Outlaw as the starting sf next year I just don’t see us being able to move Duck. Either way changes have to be made

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*[Mark Bradley's article]

Said Woodson: “I’m not here to coach effort.”

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Northcyde, I read in one of your earlier posts that you thought Smoove had lost about 50% of his support and fans were watching him more closely to see if he was taking certain plays off. You described me perfectly. I bought my No 5 jersey for about 70 bucks 3 years ago when I took my 2 sons to a Hawks game. I think he has made improvement in his emotional and maturity level in the last couple of yrs, but I didn’t like some of his play in these last 2 series so I decided to watch him specifically in game 3 yesterday. I really didn’t like what I saw. Besides the obvious of him reverting back to about 2008 with the launching all those long shots, his defensive effort was poor. There were times that he would work hard for a couple of min and then he would take some time off and barely guard his man but worst of all not box his man or make any serious effort to get a rebound. Pressure and stress will bring out the true measure of a man and Josh has not looked good in the last 3 weeks. Never thought I would say it but I think it’s time to trade Josh for a 5 and move Al to the 4. There’s no question of Al’s work ethic, and desire in stressful situations

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Phoenix gets
Josh Smith

Atlanta gets
Robin Lopez/Goran Dragic/Jared Dudley

Starters: Dragic/Crawford/Chills/Horford/Lopez
Bench: Teague/Bibby/Marvin/Dudley/Zaza

Coach: Bill Laimbeer

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Doesw anybody see what Rondo is doin to the Cavs. Too bad he wouldn’t get a chance playing for woody. Damn Teague could be Rondo.

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Bye-Bye Woody!!! Bye Joe Dynomite Johnson.. Josh attitude is toxic. Ship him outta here. He barely has an Highschool basketball IQ anyway!!! Kick rocks Dude..And Marvin, why you just don’t quit is beyond me. Your Atlanta Hawks are finally playing like you Mr. “Tin Man”!!!!!!!! You are a joke as a #2 lottery pick class of 05!! I wouldn’t watch you play a pickup game… We have ballers on the west side that would eat your lunch and take your change….Chump….

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If Rondo played for Woody, he be riding the benched then traded in a couple of yrs!

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SOUTH GA BOY-the same lack of respect you seem to have for Childress’ ability is the reason he’s no longer with us now. How can you make an issue of Childress’ ability because he’s playing in the Euro league when Bibby and Marvin managed to almost totally regress, and they played against NBA competition? Are you saying he couldn’t possibility be more productive than Marvin or Bibby because of his jump shot, and the fact he’s played in the Euro league the last 2yrs?

Remember the Bucks young PG Brandon Jennings? Did playing in that same Euro league right out of high school prevent him from having an excellent NBA rookie season and an excellent playoff series against us? We have to stop looking for single minded excuses to either trash or support players we like of dislike.

Childress’ 07 shooting stats are as follows:

2pt FG%-.533, 3pt FG%-.338, overall FG%-.504, PPG-13, RPG-6.2, APG-2.3 and STL’s-1.05. With this kind of overall production off the bench, why would anyone make an issue of his jump shot, then overlook the fact he registered those stats against NBA competition, and without a single play being called for him. He and his jump shot certainly managed to out produce starters MWilliams and MBibby this yr, and they are both known for their jumps shooting ability, which didn’t do them or the team much good.

I wouldn’t call that an over estimation of his abilities, I’d call it an upgrade and/or an improvement.

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