Atlanta Hawks at Magic Game 2: J.J. is All-NBA but is he fading away?
J.J. can't find his groove.
ORLANDO–A reminder that J.J. is considered to be among the best players in the league, at least by media types: He was named to the All-NBA Third Team, the league announced today. It’s the first time for J.J. and the first time the Hawks have had a player selected since Dikembe in 97-98.
The timing is interesting since J.J. is slumping in the playoffs. He’s not the only one, of course, but he’s the lead dog. Before the playoffs opened, J.J. said he knew that as the Hawks’ veteran star he would take the heat if they don’t meet expectations or get the glory if they make a breakthrough. He said he embraced that role. Now, though, both J.J. and Woody seem to want to avoid putting the onus on him to deliver a big game when the Hawks need it most.
Looking at the other guys on the All-NBA teams, all of them except maybe Bogut would be looked at to be The Man for their team in trying times. J.J. needs help–more from fellow All-Star Horford, second-team All-Defense Smoove, Sixth Man of the Year Jamal and Woody. But if the Hawks’ All-NBA star doesn’t come through it’s hard to see them making this a series. It also could end up costing him in free agency.
– You have to be an Insider to read it, but ESPN.com’s John Hollinger makes a case that Iso-heavy offenses like the Hawks and Blazers run are good for the regular season, not so good for the playoffs.
Atlanta, as the league’s third-best offense, should at least be able to battle these defenses [Milwaukee and Orlando] to a draw. But even before Tuesday’s Game 1 implosion against Orlando, they were struggling. The Hawks can’t make shots, ranking just 14th out of 16 teams in postseason TS percentage. While they’ve still been able to generate second shots (they lead all teams in playoff Offensive Rebound Rate) and have been somewhat successful at avoiding turnovers, the net result put the Hawks 11th among the 16 playoff teams in postseason Offensive Efficiency.
So what is it? Perhaps the Hawks and Blazers have just had some bad games against some pretty good defenses. But between the two, we’ve built up a 31-game sample showing that something more nefarious might be at work.
Obviously, this has important implications for Atlanta’s Game 2 in Orlando on Thursday. Iso-Joe has had its moments; Game 4 of the 2008 Boston series, for instance, when Johnson single-handedly tore apart one of the best defensive teams in history. But in the aggregate, its failures have been far greater than its successes, and it’s notable that the most similar offensive team has faced similar troubles.
Is there something about iso-heavy offenses that makes them vulnerable in the playoffs? We can’t say it with certainty yet, but the case is building rapidly. The Hawks have three games left to show that Iso-Joe can be as effective in May as it is between November and April.
– In Game 1, the Hawks ran two isolation plays in the first quarter, one for Bibby (miss) and one for J.J. (a make, but it came just after a steal and Orlando’s defense hadn’t yet set). They ran four isos in that awful second quarter: Marvin (miss), Zaza (miss), J.J. (miss) and Jamal (miss). Of those six plays, all but two were long, challenged jump shots: Marvin got his layup blocked by Dwight Howard and Jamal missed on a runner near the end of the half.
– I covered Stan Van Gundy so this doesn’t surprise me. The guy is fanatical about not letting his team slip. And the Magic are aware of what happened against ‘Nique’s Celtics in ‘95. Still, I keep wondering what lesson there is to learn from a series they ended up winning, anyway.
– Slam Online ranks the Euroleague players and puts Childress at No. 5.
MC
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815 comments Add your comment
Big Ray
May 6th, 2010
11:22 pm
South ga Boy,
Sure. Let’s fire the players and give the coach an extension. Then we can all pay to go see the Atlanta Woodys.
If guys like Josh and Al are doing the same thing every time for the last six years, then somebody needs to cut the coach and the GM loose. Players are that hard-headed, you trade them. If the coach is that ineffective, then you get a different one. Woody allows too much freedom. And the players make the same mistakes because they simply aren’t disciplined and enforced. Don’t know what to tell ya, other than a coach always takes a fall for that, no matter how you see it. Only high-powered, proven, tenured coaches escape that fate (Popovich, Jackson, Sloan). Period.
Big Ray
May 6th, 2010
11:24 pm
Well, hell, that ain’t no surprise. VenomSpitter is a dedicated Josh hater.
Not that there’s a shortage of those around here. Oh well, everybody has to have a hobby or a player (or coach) to hate.
Speaking of which, where’s Northcyde?
Ohhhh, that’s right. His boy sucked tonight. Again. Ouch!
south ga boy
May 6th, 2010
11:24 pm
But Najeh, If you ever want to advance you cant do dumb sh*t on the road, cuz you have to win on the road sooner or later. Im tired of making excuses for them. they are young:bullsh%t. How long has Josh been in the league now and because he’s 10-15% better (metally and emotionally) we think he’s made great strides. Gotta take the blinders off man, I have. This team, especially with crappy, skin flint ownership, cannot go any further as constituted. Some major changes have to be made.
Wabe
May 6th, 2010
11:26 pm
south ga boy,
It is about direction, or lack there of.
“The whole league knows how to defend Iso Joe”
That’s exactly why it would help if *coach* would draw something up, or have an offensive system in place to help minimize these lulls.
I understand what you’re saying though. I get that players have to keep their composure and come to play hard every play. I said in an earlier post that players hold some blame in tonights loss as well. But, if you look at the bigger picture, it’s the lack of direction.
Ultimately, we’re not going to lose this series because J.Smith whined after a call. It comes down to what you’ve been taught. And, even after witnessing 4th quarter collapses throughout the regular season, we obviously haven’t installed a set of plays that we can go to in the 4th quarter should we stagnate. People comment about how selfish these guys are, but truthfully, when you have a system in place that allows players to go one on one exclusively in throughout the game, it points to a lack of direction from *coach*.
If *coach* knew that the lack of ball movement kills our offensive attack in the fourth quarter, he would’ve implemented something by now. The fact that we see them continue to do it, and the problem has yet to be addressed, points to what I’m getting at.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
11:26 pm
For those of you who want to trade Smoove for his occasional bonehead play, let me point you to something I saw recently that Amare Stoudemire said. When asked about how come he has improved so much on defense, he simply said that nobody up to this point had ever taught him how to play defense before.
Now maybe he’s right, maybe he’s making excuses, I don’t know. The reason I bring it up is that in the case of a super-talented player like Smoove, getting him to fix these boneheaded mistakes (which have been on the decline over the last couple of years anyway) can be as simple as finding a good coach, or even a good veteran leader that can work with him on those things.
Anyway, I think it’s foolish to trade someone as talented as Smoove who affects the game in so many ways positively because he does dumb sh-t every once in a while. Maybe if the Hawks had a point guard, other players wouldn’t feel so compelled to try to make things happen on their own.
VenomSpitter
May 6th, 2010
11:27 pm
LOL Big Ray I don’t hate Josh. He just pisses me off with all his boneheaded plays.
south ga boy
May 6th, 2010
11:28 pm
Big Ray, not Al, go back and read my post. We should build around Al at the 4, along with Jamal and TEague. Also, the first thing I said was Woody has to go. He’s done all he can do. Brick wall. Do you, honestly, believe Josh will ever grow a basketball brain or stop with the crying. Do you believe JJ will ever be the kind of leader that a (max money contract) player should be. Really. PULEEEZE
Big Ray
May 6th, 2010
11:28 pm
On a serious tip, I don’t understand what’s going on with JJ.
He finished the series against Milwaukee with regular season type stats. But he also finished shooting 42% against them. He’s shooting somewhere around 34% against Orlando.
Of course, Jamal Crawford is doing even worse, shooting 35% or so for the playoffs overall. I’d make as much noise about it, but after hearing so much about how great JJ is and how we just GOTTA sign him to a gajillion-billion-trillion dollar contract, I’m just not quite as disappointed in one as I am the other, despite the fact that I feel both have let me down big time.
I just expected more from a max contract Supernova. Silly me….
Big Ray
May 6th, 2010
11:30 pm
South ga boy ,
That was my bad, I meant to say JOE, not AL.
As for whether I think Joe is
A) Worth a max contract
or
B) Can lead this team to the finals…..
No and No. But that’s just me. I’m not the king of research or anything.
south ga boy
May 6th, 2010
11:31 pm
Najeh 5 turnovers in the second half is not doin something dumb every once and a while. He killed us tonight. And how can we advance against the Magic, with Howard there, with, at best, 2 power forwards.
darrell starks
May 6th, 2010
11:31 pm
The big Q can josh play 3position.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Clyde
May 6th, 2010
11:31 pm
Its time to get ready for the summer.
FIRE WOODY
Big Ray
May 6th, 2010
11:33 pm
VenomSpitter ,
I’m just pickin’. Nobody hates it more than me when Josh does stupid stuff. He kills this team when he does, and he makes me look like an ass. I’m trading my #5 jersey in for a #15 jersey. Been thinking about that one for a year now. Just kidding, but like I said in my 11:18 post, I’ll go with Al if forced to choose. I say that now, and I said it when people were talking last year (and the year before) about trading Al or Josh for Stoudamire.
kwooden1
May 6th, 2010
11:33 pm
Clearly poor execution in the 4th killed the HAWKS. They missed several shots they can make, but they were still contested shots. Orlando on the other hand executed very well and got several easy shots to put the HAWKS away. Horford hitting the outside shot really made a difference in what Howard could do in the paint. If Howard goes back to his normal free-throw percentage and one of those calls against Collins goes the other way, I think we really come close if not win this game. It seems like Orlando made a lot of 3’s but they were only 9-23. (not a bad percentage, but definitely not great)
JJ still isn’t shooting well but Orlando is really making an effort to over play his jumper and make him drive to Howard. The HAWKS have to keep running the pick and pop with Horford to keep Howard away from the basket. The HAWKS actually out rebounded Orlando tonight, especially on the offensive glass. If Horford hits his shots we can continue to exploit the boards.
GO HAWKS!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
11:33 pm
“If you ever want to advance you cant do dumb sh*t on the road, cuz you have to win on the road sooner or later. Im tired of making excuses for them. they are young:bullsh%t. ”
I agree with all of this…
“This team, especially with crappy, skin flint ownership, cannot go any further as constituted. Some major changes have to be made.”
… and even with this, but I think the changes you and I have in mind are different. To me, this roster doesn’t really need significant change beyond bringing in a Kendrick Perkins-like player, preferably an experienced veteran, to play 20 minutes a game at center and allow Horford to slide over to PF for a while. What this team needs is a coaching change and to turn the point guard reins over to Teague. It’s not like the Hawks have been getting beat in these playoffs because of size or talent deficiency, the way the Utah Jazz have against the Lakers. They have been getting beat because of mental mistakes and lack of mental toughness, which speaks to poor coaching and a lack of veteran leadership. Those are the two areas that need to be addressed, not reshaping the core of the team altogether.
south ga boy
May 6th, 2010
11:35 pm
I hear Ya Big Ray. AS for JJ, people are who they are. Joe is playing for the max money contract and trying to be the team leader that he knows he has to be, if he wants the money and he does, but that’s not him. Its in his head and its messing up his game. HE CANT MAKE A DECISION. Dribble dribble. He’s not comfortable with the role of team leader, but we cant advance beyond where we are without one, and for heaven’s sake, Josh cant do it and Al may can do it in another yr or 2.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
11:38 pm
“Najeh 5 turnovers in the second half is not doin something dumb every once and a while. He killed us tonight. And how can we advance against the Magic, with Howard there, with, at best, 2 power forwards.”
I don’t deny that he helped kill the Hawks with his turnovers tonight, but I think he has a lot more games where his impact is a big net positive than a big net negative.
Also, if you want to trade him, which center do you trade him for that makes the Hawks better? Keep in mind that for all his faults, you are talking about trading a guy who is second-team All Defense, the most willing passer on this team, arguably the league’s best help defender, and the only triple-double threat the Hawks have. Which center out there is available that will impact the Hawks the way he does?
If there is a player who will have the positive impact he does at the center position, then I am for it. I just don’t see that guy being available.
Big Ray
May 6th, 2010
11:38 pm
South Ga boy ,
Answered your last post.
As for Josh, he doesn’t often kill us in games like this. When’s the last time he had 5 turnovers in a game, much less in a half?
It’s just that when he does play bad…it’s pretty bad, and it’s very frustrating to watch.
Najeh ,
For me, it’s about if forced to choose. I’m all for getting a better coach in here, first. All for it. And I have to think that this entered Rick Sund’s mind when Memphis offered Josh $58 million. If forced to choose, you already know now what you’ll get out of Horford from night to night, regardless of whether or not you change the coach. Can you count on Josh to play smarter even if you don’t get a different coach? Again, I don’t want to be rid of the guy, I like him a lot. But if that hard, tough situation ever comes up….do you stick with the electric PF who fills the stat sheet but can play you right out of a game, or do you stick with the PF who can also man the pivot for you night after night, if you need him to?
Tough….but I know which way I’d go. It’s just hypothetical, though. For now. I think.
south ga boy
May 6th, 2010
11:39 pm
So Najeh, are you then saying we send our 11 million dollar current power forward to the bench, cuz I would love to have a Perkins type at the 5 and slide Al to the 4. That’s what I have been talking about, but what do you do with Josh. Please dont say slide him to the 3 cuz I think I will start looking for the razor blades and picking out which wrist right now.
O'Brien
May 6th, 2010
11:39 pm
Although Josh Smith drives me crazy sometimes, he is still a really good player. 2nd team all defense, 2nd in DPOY. And he is a really good passer, plus he is still young, and we have him locked up at a reasonable price.
How do you think Philly feels that they offered the big money to Elton Brand instead of Josh?
Najeh,
Are you implying that Woody (who is all about defense) and Ty Hill (our esteemed big man coach) are not doing a good job of teaching Josh?
Grandad
May 6th, 2010
11:40 pm
Duplicating a position [Josh/Al] is killin’ us.
I’m with Mystikal, if they let Al go I’ll go back to the Celts.
[pre-Atl.Hawks/Bailey Howell/Russell/Sam & KC](before yawl jump me)
Josh (bless his heart) I feel like he may help us more in a trade.
Don’t get me wrong…he’s had a terrific season & tonight was 1 game.
But he just might [in a package] get Joe a *One so he can be a *Two.
*Alpha Dawg [not pos.]
If he [Joe] leaves then build around Al. [Joe/S & T]
Either way, Al’s the Cornerstone & Team Leader the way I see it.
Big Ray
May 6th, 2010
11:41 pm
To me, this roster doesn’t really need significant change beyond bringing in a Kendrick Perkins-like player, preferably an experienced veteran, to play 20 minutes a game at center and allow Horford to slide over to PF for a while. What this team needs is a coaching change and to turn the point guard reins over to Teague. It’s not like the Hawks have been getting beat in these playoffs because of size or talent deficiency, the way the Utah Jazz have against the Lakers. They have been getting beat because of mental mistakes and lack of mental toughness, which speaks to poor coaching and a lack of veteran leadership. Those are the two areas that need to be addressed, not reshaping the core of the team altogether.
Co-sign, Double Co-sign, Triple Co-sign, and buy you a tank of gas….
Big Ray
May 6th, 2010
11:42 pm
South Ga boy ,
Agreed.
Grandad ,
Can’t argue with that!
south ga boy
May 6th, 2010
11:44 pm
But Ray, its the little things that he does that dont show up in the stats, that kill us. Complaining to a ref and not getting back on defense while his man scores on the other end. Taking the long jumper just inside the 3 point line when he could have just as easily drove to the basket. And, so often, he picks and chooses when he wants to give max effort on defense. When he does there is nobody any better but when he doesn’t will lackadasically guard his man and get burnt, or go for a steal that he had little to no chance of getting all because he wanted to make the sportscenter dunk on the other end. All those plays go on, to some degree or another, every game
darrell starks
May 6th, 2010
11:45 pm
WHAT WILL BE THE CALL FOR BIBBY, JOSH, AND OUR PICK FOR DEVIN AND LOPEZ.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
The Truth
May 6th, 2010
11:45 pm
The Enigma Josh Smith epitomizes must of what is wrong with the Hawks:
1) Loses focus from any distraction
Turn-overs, after turn-overs at the worst possible times
2) Discipline is questionable
3) Perceived Low Basketball IQ
4) Selfish Basketball during crunch time
5) Inconsistent
6) A slacker at the worst time
7) Too often, a whiner
Sorry Josh, but it is what it is ….
south ga boy
May 6th, 2010
11:47 pm
Agian, I ask, where does Josh go if we had a true 5 and Al went to the 4. I really do love Josh to death, (I know it doesn’t sound like it) but there isn’t enough baby food in the entire ATL to take care of him if he had to sudenly come off the bench.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
11:47 pm
“So Najeh, are you then saying we send our 11 million dollar current power forward to the bench, cuz I would love to have a Perkins type at the 5 and slide Al to the 4. That’s what I have been talking about, but what do you do with Josh. Please dont say slide him to the 3 cuz I think I will start looking for the razor blades and picking out which wrist right now.”
Nah, I agree with you on Josh playing the 3. That’s a terrible idea. I’m saying keep Josh and Al starting, reduce their minutes, and play your Perkins-type player off the bench at center allowing Horford to slide to the 4. The split would end up being similar to how the Hawks’ backcourt works now, with Joe, Jamal, and Bibby splitting pretty much all of the available minutes at the PG and SG positions. Josh, Al, and this Perkins-type player would split pretty much all the available minutes at the PF and C positions, and the coach would be able to mix and match these three players at those two positions based on matchups and whoever has the hot hand. Zaza would then become the 4th big man, getting spot minutes like Joe Smith does now, and everyone behind him on the depth chart would pretty much be irrelevant.
HAWKSFAN11
May 6th, 2010
11:48 pm
My keys to the lost.
1. Josh Smith takes too many plays off, he’s a great athelte, but just not a good BASKETBALL player.
2. How can u sit your starting point guard out at the 9min mark in the 3rd and he never returns?
3. Marvin played almost the ENTIRE second half, and he scored maybe two points lol WOW.
4. Woody left Crawford, Joe, and Josh in for the ENTIRE second half too, lol WOW.
5. We played as a team thru 3, then in the 4th, it was back to them playing streetball smh.
south ga boy
May 6th, 2010
11:49 pm
Thank you, “the Truth”
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
11:49 pm
This season, Joe played 40 minutes per game, while Jamal and Bibby each played 30. Imagine if Josh and Al each played 35 minutes, while this Perkins-type true center/veteran leader played 30. That’s pretty much what I’m envisioning.
Smoooooth
May 6th, 2010
11:51 pm
I am smoooooooooooth and pretty. I could play the point. My threes are way. How bout my IsoSmooth moves in the 4th quarter?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
11:52 pm
“Are you implying that Woody (who is all about defense) and Ty Hill (our esteemed big man coach) are not doing a good job of teaching Josh?”
I don’t attribute ALL of Josh’s mental lapses to this, but I think they get cut down significantly with better coaching, yeah.
darrell starks
May 6th, 2010
11:54 pm
KRIS HUMPHRIES WILL BE ADDED 2 THE TRADE 2 MAKE IT WORK.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
south ga boy
May 6th, 2010
11:55 pm
But Najeh, I see 2 prominent problems with that. 1. You would reduce Johs’s minutes and to be effective the “perkins type player” needs to be in at the begining of the game and at the end when we need a true 5 to go up against the Howards, NeNe’s, Bogut’s, Bosh’s, Shaq’s, etc,etc of the game. We dont need Perkins to go against their back-up 5, thats what we have the 3 slugs on our bench now to do. 2nd, there is no way our cheap ars ownership group could eer afford to pay for that type of player or Josh either to come off the bench and give JJ the max money he wants. We have retards for owners, so I just dont think your scenario is possible.
Grandad
May 7th, 2010
12:00 am
Big Ray:
I’m certainly not a Josh [hater].(the only thing I hate is that word)
I’m thinking trade value. Josh’s value will never be any higher.
I’m not saying trade him for a [5] either.
Put together a package, with Josh as the centerpiece, That could
possibly bring in an Elite/Alpha Dog type player.
*pkg.[Marv,childress,Bibby,Teague(depending),Zaza,dr.pk.](not all)
Before you say d Wade’s not coming here / that’s not necessarily
the kind I’m speaking of. Maybe a young budding superstar:
*Stephen Curry
*Chris Paul [injuries + D.Collison/?]
*S & T Bosh
*Amare [friends with Joe]
I’m just thinking outside the box.
But I actually like Josh and he plays harder than most of our Hawks!
south ga boy
May 7th, 2010
12:01 am
And Najeh, we cant get a “perkins” without giving up something significant and what do we have as trade bait other than Al or Josh. Nobody wants Marvin and his dumbass contract. We couldnt get a used Jock strap for Zsa Zsa or Bibby with their play and contracts. We either keep Joe with a big contract or he walks. We want to keep Jamal. So what pieces do we have that anyone else would be willing to give up a good 5 for except Josh or Al. I will concede that Josh is more talented but Al has maturity, a ture power forward talent and body, and he wont make dumb mistakes. So Josh is the only thing we have that we can trade to get a 5. You can forget free agency with this bunch.
O'Brien
May 7th, 2010
12:02 am
Did Woody come out and say “Magic held serve, so all we need to do is hold serve in ATL”?
Najeh,
Are you giving up on ZaZa?
Grandad
May 7th, 2010
12:03 am
*D.Wade / I’m getting tired of my darned sticky shift key.
newkid
May 7th, 2010
12:07 am
Extremely impressed with Al Horford’s showing in the playoffs. Over the next several years it seems the only chance of getting out of what’s rapidly becoming one of the toughest divisions in the league is to build this team around Horford @ 4. With Charlotte taking leaps, Miami on the cusp of reloading, and Superman & company in Orlando, we’re dead in the water if Sund essentially sits on his hands this summer. Horford has the temperment, the budding skills, and the leadership qualities to be the cornerstone of the franchise for the next 10 years; no one else on our side even comes close. There’s been so much talk about how important it is to ‘maintain the core’ of the Hawks. Seems there’s only ONE core, and he’s Horford.
What!
May 7th, 2010
12:08 am
ZAZA, MO, AND BIBBY….WE CAN GET SUMTIN DECENT FOR THESE GUYS
VenomSpitter
May 7th, 2010
12:08 am
Al is the only untouchable. Everybody else is EXPENDABLE.
south ga boy
May 7th, 2010
12:10 am
Granddad, I agree that we have to think outside the box and Josh is the big piece that we have to trade, and i think your right that his trade value will never be any higher. We cant keep trying to drive this square (drafting a bunch of forwards, f… you very much Billy Knight) peg into a round hole. To continue to do so is insanity. Our front line, as constituted, do not have the heith to compete on a nightly basis with the elite teams in this league. something has to give and its either Al or Josh.
O'Brien
May 7th, 2010
12:12 am
Jamal Mashburn: “The problem for the Hawks, is they start settling for jumpers, which has been their calling card all season. They stop attacking the rim, no ball movement, and they settle for jumpers”.
Grandad
May 7th, 2010
12:13 am
Nets ain’t gonna trade Lopez!
Truth be told I don’t particularly care for Harris.
He’s never started @ pt. on a play-off team has he?
Give Teaguer a chance. before we look @ Harris.
I’d rather have Kyle Lowry [FA] anyway – plays his butt off!
Grandad
May 7th, 2010
12:15 am
Nail on the head O’B.
south ga boy
May 7th, 2010
12:15 am
Easy venomspitter, not everybody else. Gotta keep Jamal wither to start or come off the bench. Don’t know where we would be without him this yr. I really think that Teague has the skills to, at least, check the quick guards on the top teams in the Eastern conference. Everyone else is up for possible trade as far as Im concerned, but the honest truth is that nobody else will give up anything of any value for any of our players except Josh.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 7th, 2010
12:18 am
“You would reduce Johs’s minutes and to be effective the “perkins type player” needs to be in at the begining of the game and at the end when we need a true 5 to go up against the Howards, NeNe’s, Bogut’s, Bosh’s, Shaq’s, etc,etc of the game. We dont need Perkins to go against their back-up”
Not necessarily. The key is there are not that many players like Howard in the league that the Hawks really need a true center to defend. Among the players you mentioned, Nene is not really an offensive centerpiece who needs a big time defender guarding him, and Bosh is a finesse forward who got manhandled by Horford every time they matched up this year. The Magic, Cavs, Bucks, and Lakers of course all require a lot of defensive attention for their centers, but how many teams have true centers of their caliber? Not many. In most games, Josh and Al will still be finishing the game on the floor in crunch time.
“And Najeh, we cant get a “perkins” without giving up something significant and what do we have as trade bait other than Al or Josh. ”
Again, not necessarily true. The true center the Hawks acquire doesn’t have to be a star. I mean, sh-t, the real Perkins ain’t no star, he’s just a perfect role player. Teams pick up key acquisitions like this with mid-level exceptions, by trading expiring contracts and future picks, and/or using non-lottery draft picks all the time. The real Perkins was the #28 pick in the draft. The Bucks got Kurt Thomas as a salary cap throw-in. The Pistons in 2004 got Rasheed Wallace in exchange for a first round pick (used on Smoove) and expiring contracts. The Mavs this year traded for Brendan Haywood and Caron Butler while giving up an out-of-favor Josh Howard and expiring contracts.
The point is, these kind of players can be had at reasonable prices without having to give up Josh or Al. It just takes a creative GM to find them.
“there is no way our cheap ars ownership group could eer afford to pay for that type of player or Josh either to come off the bench and give JJ the max money he wants. We have retards for owners, so I just dont think your scenario is possible.”
This is the big wild card, whether the ownership puts their money where Michael Gearon’s mouth is. For example, Brendan Haywood is a free agent and can probably be signed with a mid-level exception, but will the DASG do what it takes to bring him here? He would be ideal for the role I’m talking about.
south ga boy
May 7th, 2010
12:23 am
WEll of course O’brien, but the question is why and who ? The “who” is usually JJ with Josh a close second. The “why” is because they lack the mental discipline to pass the ball or drive the lane and shoot/kick. Mostly, what they do is hold the ball (josh) or dribble, dribble, dribble and wait for the double team to come over with 4 sec left on shot clock and have to throw up a prayer. I agree 100% with Jamal and you but why does it happen over and over in the big games against elite teams when we need them to move the ball or drive to score or draw the foul or kick it out to the open man. Why is that so hard to execute or at least attempt to execute. Those 2 have the most talent on the team and the least mental discipline. To put it into football terms, they can score TD’s almost at will but they will consistantly get called back on stupid penalties
Grandad
May 7th, 2010
12:29 am
O’B on Mashburn:
Wdsn does not trust anything but…
You know our guys are always sayin’ we gotta trust each other.
It just struck me, it comes from Wdsn.
*He don’t trust them.
*He does not trust himself – to devise a system.
*He does not trust Al or marv or Josh – to him their not vets.
**[in his mind they're still rookies on those bad teams.]
*He didn’t trust Childress – so he left.
*He has never trusted Zaza
*He didn’t nor will he trust – Acie, Salim, Teaguer.
*He[however]does trust – Joe + Bibby & to a degree(Flip now Jamal)