Atlanta Hawks Squawks Game 1: Magic 114, Hawks 71

smh.

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“We have to come up with a different game plan because what we have been doing hasn’t been working,”

-Al Horford

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“doesn’t it start to look like they didn’t close that gap so much after all?”

lol @ 53-29 defining progress..

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I bet Woody is gone after this series.

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It’s one thing to play hard, play smart, and lose to a more talented team like the Magic.

It’s entirely different to play like sh-t, do the same dumb sh-t that has caused you to lose winnable games all season, and get embarrassed on national television.

FIRE WOODY

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Gregg Popovich on Mike Budenholzer [GP's asst.coach/14 seasons]
*(currently, lead asst)

“First of all, Mike has a wonderful understanding of the game,” Popovich said. “That’s a requirement. He’s really good relationship-wise, too. He’s secure in his own skin and he’s able to tell a player the truth whether the player wants to hear it or not.”

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set the tone in game 1. Way to go Hawks!!

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LMAO@JJ’s BS comments

“We’ll bounce back in Game 2,” J.J. said. “It’s a long series. Anything is possible. We just need to look at the tape and make adjustments.”

That boy a foo’

Like it’s really gonna come that easy, after the raping the Magic have done to the Hawks on consistent basis.

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When you take your All-Star center out of the game and put in a scrub who barely plays for the sole purpose of fouling, you are basically sending a message that your team can’t compete without resorting to gimmicky bullsh-t.

On March 24, Jason Collins didn’t play, Zaza played his usual 16 minutes, while Horford shouldered the bulk of the load guarding Howard. And the Hawks won.

Way to boost your team’s confidence, Woody.

FIRE WOODY

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NEXT FOR THE HAWKS!

Hey HAWKS!

Bend over and grab your ankles…..Tighten your Anal – Spinchters….Pull your pants up – Over your Boot Straps &Fight like Mrs. Turtle! Please put up One – Hell – of – a – FIGHT!

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well coached, undermanned/injured Utah team = competitive games with the Lakers

poorly coached, fully healthy Hawks team = ran out of the gym by Orlando, nearly every game

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Maybe the NBA ought to think about invoking the skunk rule…good GOD.

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Chuck is now calling out the Hawks’ so-called leaders for not talking to the press after the game.

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drmaryb:

You know I have the utmost respect.
But:
Did you see Wdsn’s demeanor on the bench…no fight.
Charles even said after the game:
“Wdsn needs to pull a Mike Brown & get mad.”…no fight
It’s been said many times & many ways on this board:
A team reflects the nature of it’s coach…no fight.
This team…players & coach quit tonight:
before the game ended…no fight.

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Grand-Daddy

I feel you man!

I have been saying ALL season long – that I am a Female Gladiator ! I got FIGHT in my HEART!
I had to FIGHT my Step- Daddy!
I had to FIGHT my Uncles!
I had to FIGHT my Brothers!
I had to FIGHT my Cousins!
I had to FIGHT racism – by becoming educated!

And if I had to? I will ALL twelve of them MAGICS!
I ain’t too scared to FIGHT! I am more afraid of LOSING!

They call me the Female “Tony – Robbins” in my profession!
I am the consumate PROFESSIONAL when I go to work everyday!
I FIGHT – Medicare! Blue Cross – Blue Shield, Aetna, Cigna, United Health Care, et.al.: On the Daily!
I do it with Class & Grace & Pragmatic Diplomacy! Hell, I do it for my patients & I DO IT for the bottom line of my business practice! Heck Grand-Daddy it’s – What I Do!

I don’t make a million dollars per year – I do it for the LOVE of Chiropractic!

So, my question is – Why Can’t The Hawks Do That?

I just don’t understand?

I’m going to watch that Movie that Dwight Howard said he watched to prepare his mind for this game:

The Perfect Warrior. Tomorrow Night. Why Can’t the Hawks do that to? They need to do something – besides trying to Figure it Out! Go – Figure! What they hell are they watching? I hope it’s NOT tonight’s game film! They don’t need to break that down – They need to burn that!!!!!!

I am Not – Laughing Out Loud tonight!!!!!!!!

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OK CLYDE!

I’ll Go to sleep now – you’re right! I am depressed because I waited and planned my whole day aroundthis game tonight. I turned down dinner plans with friends & turned my cellie off to watch that
Turr-ible Garbage!

Good Nite – CLYDE Baby!

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“Wdsn & his favorite student [MB] must go.
Right now I’m thinking a S & T for Joe
may be the best for all concerned.”

I really don’t have a beef with any of the players, including Joe, for the Hawks’ shortcomings. The Hawks just need a coach that is going to emphasize ball movement instead of encouraging ball-hoggery. I’m increasingly doubting the wisdom of giving him a max contract, although I can’t think of any halfway-decent alternative, but I think he can definitely thrive as the centerpiece of a better offensive scheme here in the ATL.

I don’t even really mind Bibby, but there’s no question in my mind that he’s a backup at this stage. The starting point guard job next year has to be Teague’s to lose from the first day in training camp.

FIRE WOODY

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Najeh . . . you know what Bibby’s main asset is.

It’s the same asset that Derek Fisher possesses. It’s his ability to knock down jumpshots, especially when the double team comes to JJ. He’s our leading 3 point shooter in the playoffs so far. He was shooting 44% from three before tonight.

With the way this team is constructed, the guards MUST be able to knock down jumpshots. And not just during garbage time.

The one thing I’ve wanted to see Teague do, is dramatically affect a game just one time when the game is still in the balance. Not when the game is virtually over. During that time, there is no pressure on the kid. But when he’s in the game during the 2nd quarter, I just want to see if he can be a spark to a run, or play a high level of basketball for a mere 5 minutes.

Fact is . . whenever Teague enters a game with it still in the balance, he almost never affects the game. He’s just . . . . out there.

That’s why he doesn’t play, even with Bibby in decline.

He’s not going to be just given playing time, if he can’t even affect the game.

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Johnnetta B Cole…?

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Jokeman, you make some great points above. I definitely think that some simple ball movement and player movement on the offensive end could do wonders for the Hawks both offensively and defensively. Also, attacking Dwight Howard with drives is a great strategy. It worked wonders for Gerald Wallace and Charlotte. If the Bobcats had more offensive firepower, they could have won that series.

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“Najeh . . . you know what Bibby’s main asset is.

It’s the same asset that Derek Fisher possesses. It’s his ability to knock down jumpshots”

Bibby shot 8 for 9 in Game 1 against Milwaukee. Since then, he has shot 37% from the field. Considering that knocking down jump shots is his only ability left, he needs to be a hell of a lot more consistent than that.

“With the way this team is constructed, the guards MUST be able to knock down jumpshots.”

Nah. With the way this team is coached, the guards must be able to knock down jump shots. It’s not like the skill set of the players on the team prevent them from scoring in other ways. Mike Woodson prevents them from scoring in other ways by insisting that the Hawks run the one-on-five offense. If the Hawks were given plays to run, like every competent offense in the history of the NBA, they wouldn’t be so dependent on guards making shots.

The thing is, when I say that the starting job should be Teague’s to lose in training camp next year, it’s not because I think Teague is a great player. It’s because Bibby is DONE. D-O-N-E. He is basically Eddie House at this point, except he gets paid the mid-level exception. If the Hawks had a halfway competent starting point guard, I wouldn’t even be bringing up Teague’s name. The fact is, Bibby entered this season as an above average shooter and below average everything else, and now at the most important time of the season, he isn’t doing the ONE THING HE’S SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD AT. With that being the case, I’d much rather give Teague a shot to play consistent minutes with the starters and build confidence to show what he’s got rather than seeing the corpse of Bibby letting every opposing point guard in the world treat him like Ben Roethlisberger treats college co-eds.

“The one thing I’ve wanted to see Teague do, is dramatically affect a game just one time when the game is still in the balance.”

It’s hilarious that you keep saying Teague to make an impact to get more minutes. What the hell is Bibby’s impact, other than allowing every opposing point guard free reign to do whatever they want to do? He can’t defend, he doesn’t penetrate, he doesn’t set his teammates up with easy shots, and for all the hype about how great of a shooter he is, in FOUR SEPARATE MONTHS THIS YEAR, he shot under 40% from the field. He is DONE. Maybe Teague doesn’t make a huge positive impact — generally, rookies picked outside the lottery who play five minutes a game don’t — but at least he doesn’t make a tangible NEGATIVE impact.

Give me a f-cking break. Bibby is the 4th best point guard on this team behind Joe, Crawford, and Teague, and Horford is fast approaching at #5.

“Salim Stoudamire > Jeff Teague”

Now you are just f-cking delusional. Those flood waters must have really contaminated the drinking water supply up there. The only way Salim is better than Teague is if Bibby is guarding him.

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It Looks Like Joe And Crawford Are Starting This Series Off The Same Way They Did Last Series In Milwaukee Against The Bucks. Which Is Not Good. *REESE* Woodson Should Show Them That Film And Show Them How Affective It Was For Charlotte. Because Obviously The Film Hawks Watch Arent Films Of The Prior Games Cuz It Seems Its The Same Thing Thats Happened In The Reg Season. But I Think The Only 2 Guys That Really Want To Play This Series Are Josh Smith And Al Horford But Woodson Will Pull Horford Early If He Has 1 Foul Which Will Be Hard To Get Him Going If He Continues To Do So, And Josh Of Course Since He Grew Up With Howard Will Have Alot Of Energy And Try To Out Do Howard. But Those 3 Early Fouls Did Hurt Because He Had To Sit For One And He Couldnt Contest Shots As Hard Becasue He Didnt Want To Foul Out Early But The Rest Of Them Just Seem Like They Arent There. But I Do Think Like Everyone Else Horford Can Guard Howard And Do A Pretty Good Job On Him. And Also Whats The Point Of Taking Him Out Because If You Do There Will Be No Need To Put Him Back In Cuz We Will Be Down 40 B4 You Know It And You Will Have No Choice But 2 Bench All Your Starters Any Way Like Tonight So He Should Leave Him In And Let Him Play And Get Going. Just To Frustrate Howard A Little. Even If He Has 1 Or 2 Fouls

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Najeh,

You are 100% correct: Bibby is at this stage of his career strictly a spot shooter.

However, I think that 90% of the problem from his side is lack of effort.

A couple of quick examples: that off balance shot he made and that reverse lay up against the Bucks are examples of stuff that he could still do if:

1. He was in shape (weighing less 15/20 pounds);
2. He still played aggressive and brought effort.

Obviously he is not in position to consistently blow by defenders and get layups against Howard at this stage of his career, but he could try, like for instance Derek Fisher still does.

Fisher is fading fast but he always brings effort and aggressiveness. Even now that he is out right ancient.

Bibby pure and simply does not try to. He had a good game against the Bucks and now he “coasted” another game.

And where is the accountability? Nowhere, he’s Woody’s pet student and guaranteed a starting job even when he does not produce sh*t.

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We are NOT Charlotte.

We can’t play like Charlotte.

We must do what WE do.

That’s what we can’t deviate from. Asking this team to simply do things that they are not comfortable with doing, is only going to make the situation worse.

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*North Clyde* Im Assuming That Comment Was Directed To One Of My Previous Comments Lol.

But I Wasnt Say Play Like Them I Was Just Saying Just Drive In Even If You Know Your Shot Will Be Contested Like Crawford He Is Good At Driving In The Lanes He Should Use That You Never No How A Game Can Change When You Be Aggresive And Take The Ball To The Rim. Calls Could Start Going Your Way 2 More Free Throw Attempts, Other Team Foul Trouble, Open Players From The Corners Etc Just Alot Can Happen.

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Since Josh Loves To Shoot So Much Maybe They Should Sign Chris Bosh And Put Him At Power Forward Bench Marvin And Put Smith At Small Forward Lmao That Would Be The Funniest Line Up Ever. Bibby, Crawford, Smith, Bosh, And Horford

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If ISO JOE doesn’t share the ball it will be four and done, All-Star or not, those other players on the court helped him become an all-star. If he would just pass the ball, he would get more shots than he thinks.
What a Joke!

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Teague’s shot will be OK.

Last night he sunk 2/3 from 3 point land (the other was an half court shot at the buzzer).

He had two lay ups blocked and missed two floaters. Both situations are due to lack of experience, not a lack of shot.

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JJ’s problem is that he is being badly utilized by Woody.

We have no offensive system (set plays), no ball nor player movement and against a good defensive team, ISO-Joe, ISO-Jamal, ISO-Al, ISO-Josh gets exposed.

Heck, it does not even have to be a good defensive team, it enough that a team plays Zone D against us that our scoring plummets.

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“Salim Stoudamire > Jeff Teague

At least Salim could come into a game every blue moon, and make an impact.

Oh . . my bad . . Teague did show out in the final game of the season vs Cleveland, when he was basically given the green light to be “the man”. But he needs to learn how to be an impact player, while being a reserve.”

That should’ve been in quotes. Not my words.

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And back to the JT0 real quick for northcyde.

Jeff Teague: 17 minutes played, 8 points, 1 assists, 2 boards, 2 TO’s.
Mike Bibby: 19 minutes played, 2 points, 3 assists, 0 boards, 1 TO.

And I’d like you to point something else out. Let’s say JT0 goes off last night in garbage time. Let’s say he makes “an impact” and goes for 20-10 in 17 minutes.

HE STILL WOULDN’T SEE THE FLOOR IN MEANINGFUL MOMENTS IN THIS SERIES.

What difference does it make?

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Take this issue about “garbage time” out of the picture, since it means nothing to you, and tell me, hold up one second:

northcyde: “At least Salim could come into a game every blue moon, and make an impact.”

Who had the bigger impact? Just look at the stats.

Even if JT0 is struggling, you know he has other things to offer the team other than scoring. If Bibby’s not scoring, WHAT THE HELL DOES HE OFFER US? Even if Teague’s struggling, you know he’s still gonna run. You know he’s quick enough to stay in front of guys Bibby can’t. You know he’s a walking-assist.

I shouldn’t say “you know”, because you obviously don’t know.

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Let’s throw garbage time out of the picture, since it obviously doesn’t mean anything, and just take a look at those numbers. And tell me northcyde, one second:

northcyde: “At least Salim could come into a game every blue moon, and make an impact.”

Who made the bigger impact?

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Najeh
“With that being the case, I’d much rather give Teague a shot to play consistent minutes with the starters and build confidence to show what he’s got rather than seeing the corpse of Bibby letting every opposing point guard in the world treat him like Ben Roethlisberger treats college co-eds.”

Co-sign. That is too funny!!!!!!!!!!

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First, the good. This still only counts as one loss. And we get to play them tomorrow night again.

The bad: Everything else.

JJ’s last 4 games: 6-16, 8-24, 4-14, and 4-11 tonight. You expect more from a player looking for a max contract, someone who said he wants to prove he belongs in the ‘elite’ conversation. Maybe he’s tired…

Once again, Crawford struggled against the Magic. 4-13, 4-14, 6-17, 4-14, and 1-11 in 5 games against the Magic. And we got outrebounded by 18.

Bottomline: Woody coached like crap, and the players played like crap.

@ northcyde,

You always point to the team, while seemingly ignoring Woody’s contributions to the problem.

““With the way this team is constructed, the guards MUST be able to knock down jumpshots.”

Najeh is right. It’s not how the team is constructed, it’s how the team is coached.

“Asking this team to simply do things that they are not comfortable with doing, is only going to make the situation worse”.

Why are they not comfortable doing anything else besides shoot jump shots? That comes back to coaching.

“We have to come up with a different game plan because what we have been doing hasn’t been working,” Al said.

A big part of that falls on coaching.

But hey, look on the bright side. The Hawks were #4 in offensive efficiency during the season.

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SOFT !!!!!!!!!

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To be effective, JJ has to be the number 2 option. He has to be the guy that the ball is kicked out to after penetration, but he has to be guarded 1 on 1…(.the other team cannot double him because they have to double the number 1 option.) This means that the Hawks must have a #1 option to make JJ effective which they do not have. The only way to get a #1 option is to sign and trade JJ. Oh yeah…for anything to work, you must get rid of Woodson also.

LOL good luck with that.

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Only good thing I can say about last night’s game is that it was so bad that it wasn’t bad. How can you, as a fan, even be upset when your team is so overmatched?

I really do not see this getting any better. The Hawks won’t lose by 40-something, again. They will probably lose each game by double digits, though.

Another sad effort. Like all of you, I’m getting sick of it. Team is just not as far along as I thought they were.

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WOODSON IT AINT THE DEFENSE THAT IS KILLING YOU. YOU CANT WIN IF YOU CANT SCORE THE BALL!

IT DOESNT MATTER HOW YOU PLAY DEFENSE IF YOU COME UP THE FLOOR AND DONT SCORE. NOW WHY CANT YOU GET THE BALL IN THE HOLE AGAINST THIS TEAM?

SURE THE DEFENSE ISNT GOOD BUT THE OFFENSE IS DIV 3 LEVEL. HAVE YOU FIGURED OUT WHAT THEIR DEFENSE IS DOING TO YOU YET? DUDE IT AINT ALL ABOUT NOT MAKING SHOTS, WE CANT EVEN DRIBBLE AGAINST THEM!

tired of yelling.

did anyone else see the resignation in horford as he came out of the game?

could they make a tape of josh jumping up and down like a three year old and embarrass the h3ll out of him? josh grow up finally will you?

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CHARLOTTE GOT DWIGHT INTO FOUL TROUBLE BUT WE CAN’T!

LOL

ALL SVG SAID AFTER THE 1ST WAS: “OK GUYS YOUR RUST WAS WORKED OFF IN THE 1ST. LET’S DESTROY THIS TEAM.”

WHAT A JOKE. THE MAGIC SAY THEY HAVE TO FORGET ABOUT GM 1 AND COME BACK TOMORROW, BUT WE KNOW THEY THINK WE’RE THE LAUGHINGSTOCK OF THE PLAYOFFS

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Nice game did the hawks play are was it AAA players on court my Gosh n gravy on Biscuits. Jazz out man n and out classed n plays with gusto n so do suns what we play like are school girls I told u morons we lose 4-0 in series n we there say Bye to U stupid coach n GM to get Bobby knight as GM and get a top notch NBA fellow who brains not nose!

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JOE JOHNSON U ARE A JOKE

DID U ALL SEE THE MAGIC GETTING MAD WHEN THEY WERE CALLED FOR FOULS UP 30

THEY WANT TO WIN

WE SUCK

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Because Woody underutilized Collins during the regular season, he is now stuck in a “oh-sh!t” mode with very few options to counter the “Beat-Down”. Clearly Collins would be the best option to neutralized Howard because of his size. But since he hadn’t played much during the regular season with the starters, he looked “out of place” and rusty as a bench-warmer (which he is). He got no love from the Ref because they perceived him as a “nobody”. If he had played more minutes during the regular season, perhaps his status would have been elevated for these playoff games. Clearly those very bad calls made against him were due to his “nobody” playing status. We all should know that Collins claim to fame was his excellent defense against Shaq in the past. He is certainly strong enough to handle Howard in the paint but he needs more playing time to get adjusted. That did not happen and his utilization was aborted entirely the second half. When Al got in foul trouble and then Collins got abused by Howard clearly was the first turning point of the game and precipitated the “Beat-Down”.

When Cheryl Miller questioned Woody reasoning for putting Collins in the game so early instead of Zaza, he gave a political answer to suggest he was saving Zaza for later; as if to suggest that Zaza was his “Big Gun”. Well after Zaza performance against Dwight, it is safe to say the Woody is in an “oh-sh!t” mode right now.

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Teague got maybe 10 sec a game in the reg season, and you guys expect him to come in a 2nd rd playoff, on the road, and play well? Dont blame Teague, blame your hero!

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I meant a 2nd rd playoff game.

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JJ might not be worth max $, but if he leaves, we wont sniff the Playoffs next year. He’s struggling with his offense right now, but unless we want to go back to the gutter of the Eastern Conference, we have to re-sign him.

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Najeh, I dont know about lack of effortr on Bibby’s part. He’s just too damn old. lol!

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I was waiting for Woodson to pull a Mike Brown while talking with the press. Unfortunately he pulled a Mike Woodson with the same sorry quotes he says after every loss. “We just didn’t have it”, “They outplayed us”..This is has been repeated so many times that its not even funny anymore.

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It’s truly amazing how everyone seems to think Orlando’s DHoward is our only match up problem. While Orlando obviously has a match up advantage at C that it exploits, but against us it also has a big advantage at PG. Woodson continues to stubbornly think he can hide Bibby’s DEF liabilities on the court and Teague on the bench.

Having said that, I must also acknowledge the whipping we received last night was on the players, not Woodson. However, who do you blame when the HC complains all season long to the media about wanting and needing more ball movement, yet does and says absolutely nothing as the same player(s)s eliminate any ball movement with their ISO’s and one on one play? During the gm, Woodson has nothing to say whatsoever when JJ goes ISO and refuses to allow any ball movement, even when it results in nothing but turnovers.

There’s not much else that can be said about what happened last night. Let’s hope we get a much better effort from the players next gm.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Word is that the Hawks are going to dinner tonight to iron out their differences. lol

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Gamer are you Woody in disguise? Shouldn’t you be at practice or watching tape?

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It’s just one game guys, they need your support still. Perhaps this butt whupping will be motivation. I’ve never know the Hawks at full strength to take too many of those without responding. Go Hawks.

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“Only Game#1 folks.”

Bullsh!t. This series is over in 4, just like I predicted.

magic were rusty for one quarter.

The Magic rusty = same score as us or a little better

The Magic’s bench could beat our starters

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MIKE WOODSON HATES ROOKIE POINT GUARDS. IT’S THAT SIMPLE. HE TRIES TO BE LIKE LARRY BROWN, BUT ISN’T.

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Yesterday . . . I just think Woody got “too cute” with the “plan”.

A guy like Jason Collins should not step foot on the floor, because he is a garbage basketball player, and has always been a garbage basketball player. Whatever defensive prowess he brought as a player 5 – 6 years ago, is LONG GONE. He should not step foot on the floor, unless its an emergency situation.

The same goes for Joe Smith. I said as soon as we signed that dude, that we’d be much better playing Marvin as the 3rd PF ( behind Horford . . when he comes back into a game and plays alongside Zaza ). Rotation minutes should not be wasted on Joe Smith either, because he’s neither a scoring threat or a better defensive option.

I don’t agree with Mark Bradley much, but during his in-game blog, he pointed out how everything started to become unraveled when Woody played extra people, instead of going with his regular rotation. Woody had a lineup out there in which he and Marvin were really the only legit offensive threats on the floor.

All I’m saying is that you have to go with WHAT and WHO got you here.

You do what you are comfortable and accustomed to doing. If you’re a passing football team, but weak running the ball . . you don’t try to run it down a team’s throat, just because your opponent is weak against the run. No . . you have do what YOU DO. Not change your style according to what your opponent does.

The same goes for a basketball team. If you’re a run and gun team, you can’t change your style to play a slow paced game, because that is NOT what you do. If you’re a team whose strength is having your 2 guards control the game, especially in the halfcourt, you cannot deviate from that. The 2 guards just have to understand that they need to play MUCH BETTER, in order for the team to succeed.

**************************

And I’ll say this too.

A lot of you complain about JJ shooting the ball and not passing, but on the flip side want him to play worthy of getting a MAX contract. JJ definitely stunk it up last night, especially with all of those turnovers. But you guys can’t have this both ways on the JJ issue.

JJ CANNOT be a decoy in this series, and the Hawks pull this out. He has to SHOOT and SCORE the basketball, which means that he has to get up shots, whether they’re contested or open. If other people are open, then of course get them the ball to see if they can knock down shots. But if you have a guy who has proven that he can take and make tough shots, then you have to let him do what he do. He has to get up his shots.

My major problem with JJ last night is the same problem that I had with him in that 4th quarter of Game 5 vs Milwaukee. The fact that he wasn’t getting up shots, combined with the turnovers, was the major problem. If anything, he needs to stop all of the dribbling, and just take a few jab steps and take the shot.

JJ has to establish himself SCORING THE BASKETBALL, as well as get everyone else involved. He is the focal point of the offense. He’s the one that the Magic was throwing a soft double team at ( when JJ tried to post up ). So if guarded one on one, JJ needs to look to score. If the double comes, get the ball to the open shooter.

But he has to get shots up. Having 6 shot attempts in the first half, during a time in which the Hawks are in the process of getting blown out, is what can’t happen anymore. He got up ONE SHOT in that 2nd quarter, but had 4 turnovers ( trying to do too damn much ). Sometimes, he simply needs to trust his jumpshot.

This series is NOT going to be won by trying to get Dwight Howard into foul trouble. We’re not equipped as a team to do that. The Hawks simply have to make every effort to get out on the break and get transition baskets. And when we get in the halfcourt offense, the Hawks must make open jumpshots, as well as a few contested ones.

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Grandad . . what you say is all true. But even in Fisher’s situation, it’s not like Fisher is moving all around, cutting to the basket, etc. In essence, he and Bibby are doing the same thing . . . playing off of the main scoring option, whether it be Kobe or Gasol. All Fisher does, is float out on the perimeter, waiting on someone to toss the ball out to him. He’s doing nothing different than what Bibby is doing.

And this is what I’ll say about Teague. When he is in the game with the 1st unit, couldn’t he take it upon himself to try to do something outside of the set offense, to try to make an impact? Couldn’t he get the ball, and push it up the floor, even if the coach instructs him to get the ball to JJ or Jamal?

Sometimes in basketball, you just have to go out and get yours. That’s exactly the mentality that Smoove has, when he grabs a rebound and starts a one-man fast break on his own. Sometimes it results in a turnover, other times it results in him taking it all the way to the rim for a score.

Najeh said that Teague had better leadership qualities than Bibby. Well, part of being a leader is assessing a situation, and doing what you think is the best thing to do. I don’t blame Teague for following the “plan”. But sometimes when you see something on the court, and you know you can make a positive play, you deviate from the “plan” and do what you need to do to make the positive play. That’s true leadership right there. Hopefully Teague will develop that quality throughout his NBA career.

But this discussion isn’t about Teague. It’s about what the Hawks need to do in order to be competitive in this series.

And the more I think about it, the more I believe that INITIALLY, the Hawks should double the hell out of Dwight Howard in the 1st quarter of the game to get the ball out of his hands. That’ll protect our big people from getting in foul trouble, and it will force the Magic to make jumpshots right out of the gate.

If they miss, then PUSH THE BALL DOWN THEIR THROATS and try to score in transition. If it’s not there on the break, then you’ll still have an opportunity to get an open shot, while the Magic are still in a little bit of scramble mode. That’s been a big part of the Hawks success this year.

This is who they are.

Hawks, don’t deviate from who you are.

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Looking at how the NBA is evolving, PG’s who are quick and get to the rack are starting to dominate. Look at Rondo, Jennings, guys with terrible J’s, but can do other things. The guys lack pride. The guys lack fight! When they were up 30 and still shooting three’s, the Hawks should have start fouling – making every shot tough. Turning all those smiles to concern if that player shot the ball. I mean, pick up six fouls and sit down. Atlanta could blow Milwaukee out of the building, but each time they came back and made the game look closer than it was. Anyway, the only good thing is it was just one game.

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@JeJe: “The Magic’s bench could beat our starters”

Let me correct that….the kids who mop up the sweat from the Orlando Magic’s court could have beaten our starters last night.

Sad excuse for a game. At least remain competitive for MORE THAN ONE QUARTER, guys. It seems like everyone – coach & players – gave up once the Magic shooters got hot in the 2nd qtr. You can’t have that lack of competitive spirit and expect to compete at an NBA-level, you just can’t.

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AG

“People keep wanting a superstar, D. Wade and C. Anthony lead the league in playoff scoring, and it earned them an early vacation.”

Good point

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So “woody” erstwhile NBA Hall of Fame Coach -NOT- says the Hawks “didn’t play Atlanta Hawks basketball” last night. I beg to differ, that’s exactly Hawks basketball -unprepared -uninspired-unknowing-and uncoached-

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northcyde – being a complete basketball player (which Joe is)
does not mean becoming a decoy. However, being an elite/*Great
baketball player, can be defined by:
“raising the level of your teammates play”.
Even though, as stated, Joe being a [complete player]
he does not fulfill the definition of *greatness.

Can we blame the loss on him, last eveing? No.
Did he revert to [1 on 5] play *ignoring open teammates? Yes
*see Bradley column
Did Joe quit? Yes.
Did Bibby quit? *I think he quit before the game started.
*Comments after game 7 (Bucks):
tired, didn’t want to think about next series, just wanted to rest.
*Barkley – “As the play-offs advance you get more & more energized,
you are not tired, you are excited & happy, adrenalin pumpin’,
you’re not tired” [paraphrase].

Wdsn & Iso-Joe/Jamal:
Orlando used the same def. that good teams always use to counter
‘Iso’. They doule & release. [not a hedge]
They stay with the double as Joe or Jamal pound the ball
& give ground then release when J or J has been pushed back
near half ct. Neither of the two J’s give the ball up to an
open teammate when doubled, therefore no fear of being exposed
in the back of the defense. They know that Joe & or Jamal
will attemt to dribble out of the double,
giving ground & burning shot clock.
*Good strategery against us!

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smh…..all this debating…..when COY Woody said all we have to do is “work on some shooting” and “bring the juice” for game 2….It’s that simple. No strategy/game plan needed. Just shoot around before the game. In Woodson we trust.

FAIL.

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@Grandad: Those “tired” comments from Bibby irked me, too. All I could think was –

“Dude, you’re an NBA athlete! You get paid millions of dollars to play basketball, which means keeping yourself in shape! If you don’t want to think about “the next game” because you’re tired (especially in the midst of the playoffs), then you’re in the wrong line of work. Heck, I go to my job every day, even though I’m tired, pregnant, and older than you….and I don’t get paid nearly as much!”

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Iso-Joe…knocking down jump shots…blah blah blah!
You win basketball games *INSIDE out.
*see ORLANDO…D.HOWARD…INSIDE out.

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Grandad

Iso-Joe…knocking down jump shots…blah blah blah!
You win basketball games *INSIDE out.
*see ORLANDO…D.HOWARD…INSIDE out.

****************

This is what I’m talking about Grandad. We CAN’T win this series playing inside-out. Our inside guys can’t score on Dwight. Horford Neither Smoove nor Horford have the back to the basket offensive skills to get that done.

We don’t have Dwight Howard . . . THEY DO. So we can’t play like “they do”.

What you’re saying is correct about inside-out basketball, but it just doesn’t correlate with this team because of the personnel mismatch they have against us on the inside. If we try to force the issue with the inside-out philosophy, we’ll get blown out again. Smoove has a better matchup offensively than Horford does. But even Smoove needs to be facing his man, and taking him off the dribble-drive.

We need to score points in the paint. But against the Magic, the easiest way to score points in the paint, is to get to the rim via transition offense. That means that you have to play defense on the other end.

That’s why I say . . . the Hawks have to simply “be who they are”.

We can’t be like other teams. We don’t have the personnel that other teams have. And if you want to blame the coach, we don’t have the coach that other teams have. So we have to play how WE play.

- scramble on defense and secure defensive rebounds

- create transition offensive opportunities from that defense

- run the offense through JJ ( and occasionally Smoove ) in the halfcourt, and hope people can make shots

- and when Crawford comes in, get him early shots to see if he’s hot or cord. If hot, let him score. If cold, take him out.

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*there

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* “what was”

oooooh f-it u get my points.. sprint touch pro 2 lazy effort right there..

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northcyde:

With all due respect, the problem is still “Iso”.
When we go inside it is Iso-Al or Iso-Josh, in the post.
Our other alt. is Marv (unnaturally) slashing.
You are correct we do not have a dominant low-post scorer.
*HENCE* the problem – no system other than throw it to _______?
and let whomever make a one on 3,4,5 play.
Thats ‘Iso”.
Which by *definition [mine] is not even a system [offense].
Wdsn does not or cannot craft a system to take advantage
of the talent [immense] with which we do have.
AND:
I don’t mean knocking down jump shots.
Something has to come 1st.
fb – You run to set up the pass.
sandwich – you gotta have the bread before you put on the butter.
I’m gonna quit on that one!

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Our own Michael Cunningham/before last night’s debacle:

“It was crazy to see how many different ways the Magic got open 3-pointers . They used ball screens, pin-down screens, hand-offs, drive-and-kicks, pick-and-pops, and simple (but fast) ball reversals. There’s no hesitation. The Magic are always looking for 3. They are ready to fire when they get space and it doesn’t seem to matter if they are cold or hot for the game.”

“they are so good at moving the ball.”

They have a “System/Philosophy/Offense/Scheme/Plan”…you think!

I would add one thing watching Redick last evening:
Their hands & feet are ready to catch & shoot.
superb fundamental coaching!

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Is there any way we can get Scott Skiles to leave Milwaukee for Atlanta. We need somebody to light a fire under their asses. EVERY NIGHT. I’m tired of the “we just didnt have it”, or “we were outhustled” nonsense. Skiles outcoached Woody with Jennings and a bunch of role players. lol! We need a coach who’ll get the BEST out of our players.

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Dave . . . you say all of that, but it still comes down to making shots and scoring the basketball.

If we have an offense that flows through JJ, then the onus is on him to make shots and get other people involved. But he has to shoot the ball himself also. His problem last night was not the shots he was taking. It was the fact that he was turning the ball over left and right and not even getting shots up.

Crawford has been taking the same shots he’s taken all year, but he went 1 – 11 FG

Horford went 1 – 7 FG, and only hit one jumper, while getting nothing on the inside

Bibby went 1 – 5 FG, made his first jumper of the game and missed the rest

So between JJ, Crawford, Horford, and Bibby . . you see them shoot a combined 7 – 34 ( 21% ). And the Hawks shot 2 – 13 3FG as well ( with Teague, of all people, making the 2 threes )

Can’t win games shooting like that.

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And what exactly makes you so sure that JT0 isn’t the answer?

Sure, he may not be the answer to win this series. I agree. But, you seem to be blaming the kid for it?

Maybe not, I don’t want to put words in your mouth. But, truthfully, your anti-JT0 rhetoric the entire season basically points to which side of the fence your on with this kid. Some of us grew tired of Bibby being tired all the time during the regular season. You could tell he was a step slow, but that still didn’t warrant JT0 any PT. Maybe, if you took the time to develop the kid – like Adelman’s done with Lowry and Brooks, like Boston’s done with Rondo, like Milwaukee’s doing with Jennings – maybe he’d be the solution.

You said yourself that “we have to make jumpshots to win this series.”

Your telling me that a penetrating PG wouldn’t help our shooters get open looks on the floor?

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And Dave . . . our running game during the Woody era, has always been ignited by our forwards ( mainly Smoove ). He’s usually the one that gets that rebound and makes the initial push up the floor. Sometimes he takes it himself. Other times, he getting the outlet pass to JJ, who then makes the play to get it back to Smoove or some other player. Horford does that well too.

The running game sees our frontcourt players beat their man down the floor, making it easy for our guards to either get an open shot, or get the ball back to the streaking frontcourt player.

That’s who we are. We can’t change who we are as a team, just because other teams have played a style that has been successful against the Magic.

You’ll see what I’m talking about in Game 2.

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Northcyde said, “And Teague off all people making a couple of 3’s.” And I bet Woody doesn’t even let Teague shoot 3’s at practice. And if he does, he probably yanks him for missing one.

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Get used to Bibby people. He’s here for 2 more freakin years. That’s almost laughable. Sund’s must’ve been on the good stuff when he resigned Bibby and Duck. Lawd have mercy!

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That should say . . they shot 55% FT ( Kentucky missed 13 FTs )

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We could have a defense substitution at every whistle. Bring in West and Collins. Lol….. All of this is a joke. If Joe passes the ball, and everyone moves without the ball we will win a couple of games. Playoff ISO’s don’t work. 1 player doesn’t win games. It is a team game and has always been. If players aren’t getting their share of touches, they tend to get bored. When they do finally get the ball, they want to score too, so they aren’t inclined to pass the ball back to the ball hog/hogs. It has been that way from elementary school, and is just human nature. You share with me and I will share with you.

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Would Joe’s money be more well spent
using a kind of *Daryl Morey model:
*[Houston]
S & T Joe preferably – Chicago = Noah
*with Joe’s money:
FA – sign (1)Redick or (2)Morrow *[replace Joe/shooter]
FA – sign Amir Johnson [shotblocker/energy player]
FA – sign Bonner ??? [stretch 4]
FA – could look @ Haywood [Big] or Lowry [pt. guard]
trade Bibby – frees up more money.
replace with:
FA – Roger Mason or try & keep ‘Mo’.
Bring Childress back or S & T – Toronto:
Reggie Evans [Tough Guy]
Oh yeah / don’t forget:
Draft – ‘Brian Zoubek’
Hire – Mike Budenholzer

Mr. Sund I’ve already figured it all out.
Not much left for you to do this summer.
(tongue planted firmly in jaw)
Hey I’m retired, can’t play golf right now, I love basketball.
What else am I gonna do? This is my diversion & pastime.

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Northcyde..

they couldnt hit the side of a barn yesterday, no contention there. however, these slumps are nothing new. we’ve yet to find ways to score the basketball when 1 pass and shot isnt working. thats a problem. Joe’s turnovers, or at least 2 of the top of my head, came from guys not being ready for the rock when he commanded the attention of more that 1 defender. or having no lanes or outlets to put the ball due to floor balance.. it just sucked. we have to work to hard to score buckets.

“our running game during the Woody era, has always been ignited by our forwards ( mainly Smoove ).”

ive addressed this a couple seasons now.. this is a problem. like most teams, your fast breaks are started by long rebs. usually off of missed 3’s. our bigs by default of our defensive principles are far away from the basket and able to secure the long board and begin a possible break. though we’d be better served by our bigs beating their man up the floor (w/out the ball) and the ball in the hands of a ball handler. its a matter of role definition. im saying that a faster tempo would call for a guard who could actually push the ball up the floor.. Bibby is casually turning the ball over in break opportunities this whole playoff. his passes have been sub par.

“That’s who we are. We can’t change who we are as a team, just because other teams have played a style that has been successful against the Magic.”

what do you mean? who is suggesting that..? im sorry but who we are shouldnt be putting up 10pts in a qrt. who we are shouldnt be acting like you’re supposed to be here and being beat by 40.. then acting as if its cool. nawwww… no way the Hawks should be soo inconsistent. need a more pro active philosophy in here. so we can make be the team that instills will.. and not have to always play the counter man. at least we should no what we’re doing. im afraid our guys dont have a clue. i mean, they say it themselves all the time..

“I wish I knew what happened.”

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The Truth

If the Hawks allow the Magic to embarrasses them, then how is Van Gundy at fault.

I wish they would have beat the Hawks by 75 to a 100. If they show up and compete for 48 minutes then this is not a blow out.

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Woodson cant motivate his team… i remember Larry Brown telling his club to come out and hit them in the chin.. its a long series, and they fought for him… i wonder what Woodson told his bunch? i fail to believe that you cant create a more consistent offense with 50+ wins talent.. clearly there is weakness with identifying strengths/mismatches and devising a scheme/strategy. u just dont have this talent and lose to the tune of 43.. or routinely get whipped by double digits by the same tactics..

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northcyde,

You said this: “And this is what I’ll say about Teague. When he is in the game with the 1st unit, couldn’t he take it upon himself to try to do something outside of the set offense, to try to make an impact? Couldn’t he get the ball, and push it up the floor, even if the coach instructs him to get the ball to JJ or Jamal?”

LOL at thinking that Teague plays with the entire first unit. Yeah, right.

Then you said this (which in MY mind contradicts your earlier statement):

“Najeh said that Teague had better leadership qualities than Bibby. Well, part of being a leader is assessing a situation, and doing what you think is the best thing to do. I don’t blame Teague for following the “plan”. But sometimes when you see something on the court, and you know you can make a positive play, you deviate from the “plan” and do what you need to do to make the positive play. That’s true leadership right there. Hopefully Teague will develop that quality throughout his NBA career.”

LOL at this: “I don’t blame Teague for following the “plan”.”

Hell you just DID blame him for it in the previous paragraph!

And just what do you think Woody’s reaction would be if Teague “took it upon himself” and what he did resulted in a turnover?

Would Woody think “well, the rook’s just showing true leadership”? Yeah, right.

You are the one who a few weeks ago said “if the bench isn’t producing, pull them off the floor” Which I agree with.

Why doesn’t that go for Bibby too (or ANY starter)???????

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Why doesn’t that go for Bibby too (or ANY starter)???????

Sautee that is a question I haven’t seen a Woodson supporter answer all season although it has been asked a million times. To be honest Ive seen that question for a few years now.

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more good stuff from Sekou, pointing out the obvious.. expanding on our comments…

http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1345

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I have to had it to all of you. I was on here this morning and just got a chance to come back now. I figured no one would be posting anything. What is there to say, really?

I want to believe the Hawks have a chance in this series, but I don’t. There’s going to be some changes. 2nd round may be as far as this group is capable of going.

Anyone listen to 790 The Zone this morning. I don’t like the station, but I listened this morning to hear what they said about the game. They were killing Joe Johnson. And, for the first time, it did not bother me to hear outsiders (non-Hawks fans) rip Joe. He was brutal last night.

This may be a topic for the offseason, but should Joe get a max deal? I love the guy and want him to come back. But, do not think that management could justify a max deal for him. Thoughts?

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Calipari Where art thou?????….are you freakin kidding me…blown out of a playoff game by 40+ points….I say hire calipari at any cost….If Atlanta sports teams want to dance they got t play the fiddler

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Heck Sit Marvin and start Horford and ZAZA

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As much as I’d like to believe the Hawks will make this series competitive, I know better. Yes I will be at the home games screaming for the Hawks as usual, win or lose. In reality, we could probably overcome the Dwight Howard mismatch if we had a legit point guard (meaning one who can create off the dribble and make the other point guard work to get shots off). Imagine if we could get someone like CP3 or even his backup Darren Collison. Then “no-show Joe” could at least be free to run off screens and expend less energy trying to create his own shot. The point guard is the engine that runs any team and ours needs some mechanical work to say the least. Our guards rarely take charges or get fouls for anything other than reaching. But, if Joe leaves and we can’t get D-Wade, go after Dirk. Contrary to popular belief, he shows up to play in the playoffs and will call out his teammates if necessary (uh, Erick Dampier).

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Why in the world would Van Gundy want to let down in anyway? He still has to win 3 more games, no coach wants to give any momentum going into the next game.

He also played his bench in the 4th, including 3rd stringers like AJ and Bass. Should they purposely try to play bad to make the other team feel good?

Atlanta should be embarrassed for having no heart, they could have kept it within 10-15 by playing hard, but they played selfishly trying to go 1 on 5 against the best defense in the NBA and not contesting anything. Orlando had 23 assists and Atlanta had 13.

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Out-coached. Out-played. Out-classed.

They have no business being seeded as high as they are.

There are no leaders on this team. They are all selfish and lazy slackers.

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Byron Scott? you mean the guy who lost by like 40 to the nuggets? No thank you

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@ Grandad

All I’m doing is discussing basketball, without all of the name calling and whatnot, like you told me to. Even though I’m been called some of everything in this thread.

@ Wabe

I didn’t mention Teague first. Najeh did in his ranting about Bibby. I just jumped in to express my opinion of Teague.

@ everybody else

If we passed the ball, but still missed jumpers and lay-ups, does that mean that our offense was better?

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You could start Mary B for Marvin Williams….I’m sure she’s a lot tougher…….

(Actually, I know how to beat the Magic…..but I’m not going to tell you.)

So you’ll just have to wait for the ultimate motivator….that moment when each and every Hawk looks himself in the mirror and says, “That’s it….I don’t care what anybody thinks…..Screw it” and then goes out and plays his heart out.

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“Superman always soars above the crowd when playing against poorly coached, undersized teams — like Atlanta, and unlike Charlotte.”*

This would give a beautiful sample for Joe Smith next tune!

* Charley Rosen @ msn.foxsports.com

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Nunna . . that was a cute analogy. Innacurate, but cute.

Because you see . . . if MC was Woody, a blogger like me would FORCE him to play me. My blogging skill level is way too high to NOT be on the board.

See . . a Teague-like blogger wouldn’t gain the serious attention of anybody on the board, outside of a few of his blog fans.

A Teague-like blogger couldn’t discuss a topic, and write no more than one sentence to express his thoughts.

A Teague-like blogger would be relegated to comments like . . “northcyde is an idiot” . . or . . “JJ sucks” . . or . . “FIRE WOODY”.

A Teague-like blogger wouldn’t have the skill or courage enough to challenge the prevaling train of though that goes on this board. He’d simply go with the popular opinion.

So put it like this . . .

if drmaryb is JJ

and Big Ray is Josh Smith

and Strickland is Horford

and Najeh is Marvin

and someone like you is Bibby

then dammit . . . I’m at least Jamal Crawford or Flip Murray . . lol

Because in my case, I immeadiately made my presence known on this board within the first week of blogging regularly on here. The opinions may be erratic, but you’ll definitely notice them, because they are detailed and chalk full of info.

And when I’m on my game ( like today ), then I’m VERY GOOD at what I do. And if you’re a “scrub” blogger, I’d take your spot. The MC version of Woody would be doing himself and the blog a diservice, if he didn’t let me get major minutes in the blog game.

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NorthCyde

Look at your right hand- now spread your fingers apart & TALK to the HAND! Yell at it & say,

“You HOT man! – You HOT!” Don’t let D-Wade have all the FUN! This is the NBA man!

Your stuff is crazy today – I’m enjoying the conversation with Nunna.

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Mike Woodson was a terrible hire from day one! This is Billy Knights team a bunch of 6 foot 9 guys with limited skill sets on offense and low basketball IQ! Orlando gonna win the whole darn thing anyway! Enjoy the nightmare for the next three games. Mike your bags should have been packed years ago dude……

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*Curious* No It Isnt A Type Of Program I Use Just Something I Do On Here.

I No Im Late Responding, But If I Was Woody I Would Change My Whole Game Plan Around, Everybody Thinks Each Serious Is About Howard. NO It Is Not I Would Say If AnyThing Maybe Just Maybe He Is A DECOY By Me Saying That I Mean As In 4 Guys Would Be To Focused On Him And His Little Two Points Rather Then The Other 4 Guys Which Has Made That Team The Best 3-Point Shooting Team In The League. If I Was Woodson I Would Say Hey We Can Not Be Concerned About 1 Man On The Offensive End And The Deffensive End If We Do We Will End Up Just Like The Bobcats Cuz Thats Exactly What They Did. Hell I Would Say Let Howard Bet You And Take The Other 4 Games Out Of Their Game, Let Howard Catch The Ball The More Times He Catches It We Have A 50-50 Chance He Will Get Called For A Foul Or We Will But Do Not Let The Best 3-Point Shooting Team Get Going. Nelson,Carter,Lewis, Are The Guys To Every Single Series Not Howard Y Do People Think Just Because He Is Out Of A Game The Magic Will Pose No Threat To Any Team?????? They Are Still Able To Win He Is Just A Very Strong Decoy That Distracts Your Team From What Is Really Beating Them.And They Dont Realize It Until They Are Sent Home Looking At The Next Round From Their TV Screens.

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