Atlanta Hawks: Do They Still Believe?
ORLANDO–It says something about how badly the Hawks got thrashed in Game 1 that they already are taking questions about their state of mind.
Also telling: The Hawks, emboldened against their critics after rallying to beat Milwaukee, realize these already are relevant questions against Orlando.
It was just one game, but it was an embarrassment.
“Yeah, it is,” J.J. said at practice today. “But it happens. Put it behind us and move on.”
They’ll get that chance tomorrow in Game 2. Until then, there are those questions.
Do they believe they can beat the Magic in a playoff series when they hardly ever beat them anymore? Can they win at Amway Arena when they keep getting blasted there and aren’t a good road playoff team to begin with? Do they really trust that they have the people and the plan to pull this off?
“I think we can beat them,” J.J said. “We just have to be poised and take our time on both ends of the court.”
“You look at it as a fluke,” Jamal said.
But how can that be when they’ve lost by more than 30 points three of their last four times here? When the Magic has won 7 of their last 8 games against the Hawks? When the Hawks’ offense so often stalls and the defense couldn’t slow the Magic’s inside or outside game?
“If it was a 15-point win, we can kind of be like, ‘Wow, they just beat us,’” Jamal said. “But 40-something points? They are not 40-something points better than us.”
So a day after taking the largest L in the franchise’s Atlanta history, the Hawks went back to work. Before they could even begin to consider their considerable problems with tactics and planning, the Hawks tried to fend off any creeping thoughts about the Magic just being better, period.
The Hawks have to win at Amyway to win this series. Woody said he still thinks they can do both.
“Sure, I do,” Woody said. “Without a doubt I do. But they’ve got to believe, too.”
How does he convince them?
“If we can just be competitive here for four quarters and make it a game, win or lose,” he said. “Make it a game. And then you go home and handle your business at home, which we’ve done. Anything can happen but we can’t just be lopsided like [Game 1].
“And I’ve got to take responsibility for that as the coach. I don’t always put it on the players. As the coach, I’ve got to take full responsibility. I’ve got to get them over the hump for four quarters.”
The Hawks spent a lot of time looking at the first quarter from Game 1, trying to reinforce the idea that if they do follow the plan they can score on the Magic. In that period, the Hawks made 11 of 26 shots with five assists, two turnovers, 16 points in the paint and eight points in transition. They still took a lot of long jump shots [3 of 8] but moved the ball to get open looks and had eight points in transition and 16 in the paint.
And then the second quarter happened. Woody put it on the bench.
“[The Magic] didn’t do anything different,” Woody said. “They just substituted.”
The Hawks didn’t spend too much time looking at those three quarters after the first. Well, really, the 2 1/2 quarters when the Magic was still playing and the Hawks hadn’t yet officially surrendered.
Guess they figured it’s probably better for their collective psyche to look more at the good from the first period than all that bad that came later.
“It was good for us to look at the first quarter and see some of the positive things that we did do early,” Joe said. “And that the gameplan does work as long as you stick to it. In the second quarter, we got out of the game plan, started forcing a lot of things offensively. And defensively we just collapsed.”
Woody thought the Hawks did a pretty good job against Dwight Howard. The Hawks wanted to limit his dunks but he got four of his eight field goals that way.
Howard went baseline for two dunks, one past Zaza and another past Al. He caught a lob dunk when Bibby didn’t chase the ballhander on a pick-and-roll and forced Al to help off Dwight. Dwight got yet another dunk when Pietrus easily blew past Bibby and got in middle of the lane to bounce a pass to Dwight on the baseline.
Woody said Howard’s baseline and pick-and-roll dunks “should never happen.” The Hawks wanted to deny Howard the ball but Woody said all the foul calls held them back.
“They called it a little close,” he said. “There were a couple of times where I thought Jason didn’t get a chance to defend him before the whistle blew. That is going to happen. We’ve just got keep banging him.”
Woody said he probably will activate Randolph Morris, who was out sick for Game 1. But neither Morris nor any of the other centers can do anything about the Hawks’ problems guarding the Magic on the perimeter.
It might be a personnel issue. The Hawks’ weak perimeter defense is a major liability in this series and they don’t have the advantage inside like they did against Milwaukee. The Hawks have Bibby, J.J., Jamal, and Mo chasing VC, Jameer Nelson, Redick, J-Will, Pietrus and Ryan Anderson. For the Hawks there’s an imbalance of numbers and an abundance of bad matchups.
It didn’t help that the Hawks were back to those timid closeouts.
“A couple of times we were too lax for sure,” Jamal said. “We were giving their shooters good, clean, open looks. You have got to run them off the line a little bit. Make them think about putting it down. That can change a person’s [shooting] percentage for sure.”
The Hawks will try to be better at that and all the other things they didn’t do in Game 1. They press on in the face of serious doubts.
It’s true that the Hawks overcame dire straits against Milwaukee but nothing like this. There was always the feeling that if the Hawks played to their potential against Milwaukee they would win the series. Now there are questions about their ability to play to their potential against the Magic and, if they do, if that will be enough to win at Amway Arena.
Even after Game 1, the Hawks say they still believe it can be done.
“It’s a new day,” Jamal said.
MC
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189 comments Add your comment
Ryan
May 5th, 2010
5:22 pm
Fire WOODY woodpecker… Im sick of him looking like a constipated Mr. Potato Head on the sidelines during a blowout!
JeJe
May 5th, 2010
5:25 pm
FIRE WOODY
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2010
5:29 pm
“But how can it be that when the Magic lost by asasas the last asasasas?”
Dude, I was thinking the EXACT SAME THING earlier today…
Dooley
May 5th, 2010
5:31 pm
No This Does Not Happen.You are professional athletes.Play like it.The only hawk that played hawks basketball was josh smith.Joe johnson needs to stop hogging the ball so much and stop missing so many shots.Woodson needs to start running plays again and stp running so many isolations.I dnt even play and I was embarrased as a fan.The hawks have potential to be a contender but lack leadership.Someone that will take it in his own hands
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2010
5:35 pm
“Last week I said that if the Atlanta Hawks’ IQ was any lower, they would be this water bottle — that was an insult to this water bottle.”
–Mike Wilbon
NUNNA!!
May 5th, 2010
5:36 pm
Dooley,
Thats part of woody’s game plan,and thats to let joe play iso and hog the ball..woody does not know that everyone is watchng you in the regular season and that you can’t play the same fluke offense in the post season..
Also,i don’t think it would hurt to put not only collins in the next go round,but also randmo and let horford play some PF
NUNNA!!
May 5th, 2010
5:38 pm
najey!!
did mike say that for real???
dang!!!!!!!
don’t get on my team like dat!!
its not the team,its da system we’re in and woody is running
NUNNA!!
May 5th, 2010
5:39 pm
CORRECTION:NAJEH
Michael Cunningham
May 5th, 2010
5:43 pm
@najeh: ha, funny. this thing went live before i was ready. feel like i got caught by an open mic.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2010
5:45 pm
“That’s why I’ll challenge people everytime Teague’s name is brought up. What is going on with the Hawks has nothing to do with Teague. That’s on the coach and the core players. But Teague is not the solution to ANYTHING around here either.”
You don’t know that and you can’t prove it, just like I can’t prove that Teague will be the very good player and possible All-Star that I think he can be. Neither of us know what the Hawks have in Teague, because Woody refuses to give him a fair opportunity to show what he’s got. However, both of us know what the Hawks have in Bibby — an overpaid, inconsistent jump shooter that Sekou Smith could probably take off the dribble. Maybe Teague as a starter makes a minimal impact. But the chances that he will be WORSE than Bibby if given a fair shot to play with the starters are slim to none, because quite frankly Bibby is terrible.
If you absolutely can’t stand the thought of giving minutes to the guy you picked ahead of Darren Collison, then fine. Start Crawford. Start Evans. Sign Tyronn Lue off the Celtics’ coaching staff and start him. Bring Cenk Akyol over here and start him. But for the love of God, put Bibby’s unproductive azz on the bench where it belongs. I distinctly remember you mentioning something along the lines of “if you can ball you will play in this league”. Well, Bibby ain’t ballin’. So why the F-CK is he playing?
Charles
May 5th, 2010
5:51 pm
Please Fire Woody. I’m sure he is an okay guy but he is terrinle coach! He is one of the main problems. Here is Hall of Fame Coaching vs. Mike Woodson: The Jazz have made to the second round with only two players drafted from the 1st round (Boozer and D.Williams). Everyone else was drafted in later rounds or they weren’t even drafted at all. But they still manage to compete night in and night out. We (the hawks) have all this talent but get beaten by an average of 24 points a game on the road.But the problem thats bigger then even Mike Woodson is ownership. We have too many owners. And each one just wants to keep money in their pockets. They don’t want to win championships b/c they don’t want to pay the big bucks. I challenge them to prove me wrong! Go out and get us another young star shooting guard (Rudy Gay) to replace Joe. Go get us a center so Al can play PF. Go get us good coach (Marc Jackson). I dare you. Listen I love the Hawks, in fact I Love all Atlanta teams, but facts are facts. Just try PLEASE
MAD-DONNA
May 5th, 2010
5:53 pm
FREE WOODY!!!!!!!!!!!! Only an idiot would think that he can not give a player significant playing time most of the season, then bring him in to stop the most physical center in the NBA!
cp
May 5th, 2010
5:54 pm
lol@najeh. I said it in an earlier blog, letting Teague play cant be any worse than what Bibby is doing now. Play Teague and tell the youngin to push the ball every chance he has and attack the rim. He might get his shot blocked but at the least he might force the refs to start calling some fouls down there. And he gets his teammates easy shots something Bibby cant do. And he also can put pressure on the opposing guard something else Bibby cant do. If you’re going to get beat down again at least try something different.
Ree Roe
May 5th, 2010
5:58 pm
MC, we are the Hawks. You referred to us as the HEATS in one of your paragraphs.
As for thursday, I’m expecting a 20 pt blowout & some close games at the highlight. SMH @ last night’s disaster
-REElish for Roe!!
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2010
6:00 pm
“And this is what I’ll say about Teague. When he is in the game with the 1st unit, couldn’t he take it upon himself to try to do something outside of the set offense, to try to make an impact? Couldn’t he get the ball, and push it up the floor, even if the coach instructs him to get the ball to JJ or Jamal?”
You seriously think this is a realistic expectation? The guy barely plays as it is, so obviously at this point he just goes out there and tries to do exactly what Woody tells him to do, which is to give it to Jamal or Joe and get out of the way, and HE’S supposed to defy the coach and make something happen? How about asking our precious veteran guards to defy the coach and share the ball? How about asking them to defy the coach and move without the ball? How about asking them to defy the coach and avoid the switching defense when it clearly isn’t working?
“Najeh said that Teague had better leadership qualities than Bibby.”
No, I said that Bibby has no significant leadership qualities — or any other qualities for that matter, aside from jump shooting — that justify giving him playing time. Whether Teague has leadership qualities or not, I have no idea, but we won’t know unless he gets a chance to play. You can’t lead anyone when you are sitting on the bench watching.
Anyway, my original post that started this discussion didn’t even say that Teague should be getting more minutes in this series. It said that he should be the starting point guard going into next season’s training camp. I actually agree with you that the Hawks won’t benefit from getting away from what they are accustomed to doing all season. The problem is, what they have been doing all season is predictably getting them annihilated against a well-coached, talented team like the Magic.
bigdave
May 5th, 2010
6:01 pm
bigdave
((April 6th, 2010))
10:24 pm
-there is no way a young talented player (baller) can reach his potential as a pro if every time he see’s action he’s playing for minutes. you’ll either try to do too much, or do too little by playing timid. this is where Woodson FAILS.
-Jamal Crawford is not a PG
-i really feel Jeff could get 10 assist in his sleep (watched too often 2nd unit bigs fumble or not finish his dishes)
-how often do regular rotation players make “impact plays”
Ramon
May 5th, 2010
6:03 pm
Michael I know you wish you were in South Beach, but you confused the Hawks with the “Heat” in this piece lol.
Ryan
May 5th, 2010
6:03 pm
I wouldnt even trust woody to pour me a bowl of captain crunch let alone get us to the ECF
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2010
6:08 pm
“And the more I think about it, the more I believe that INITIALLY, the Hawks should double the hell out of Dwight Howard in the 1st quarter of the game to get the ball out of his hands. That’ll protect our big people from getting in foul trouble, and it will force the Magic to make jumpshots right out of the gate.”
Disagree. The last thing the Hawks want is for those Magic jump shooters to get into a rhythm early, because it will be damn near impossible for the Hawks to break that rhythm at that point. Then, with their suspect perimeter defense, they will just open themselves up to Nelson and Carter driving and either throwing alley oops to Howard or passing to a wide open Lewis, Barnes, Redick, and whoever else on the 3-point line. That’s a recipe for a blowout. Yesterday, from my recollection, the Magic hit at least 50% of the 3 point attempts they got off Howard double teams.
The Hawks are still better off doing what they did for the first five minutes of yesterday’s game and for all of the March 24 game — clamp down on the 3-point shooters and live with whatever Howard manages to get.
Of course — and I’ve probably typed a similar sentence to this about 50 times since the playoffs started — if they insist on not sharing the ball on offense, they can play 12 on 5 defense and they will still lose.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2010
6:16 pm
“People can’t get it twisted on what the main problem is offensively . . . making shots. Back in the game in March, we survived that initial run that they went on because we started making jumpshots in that 2nd quarter . . . long jumpshots. Bibby, Mo Evans, and Crawford combined to make 5 threes in that quarter.”
Oh come on. This is like saying the Braves’ main problem is scoring runs. Of course the Hawks have to make shots, but there are ways to make that easier, and the Hawks refuse to use them. In the March 24 game, they shared the ball and took the rhythm jumpers that resulted. If they keep going one-on-five, they will NEVER get rhythm jumpers against this team. Nobody in the league, not even the Magic, can just rise up and make shots randomly with no ball movement.
cp
May 5th, 2010
6:28 pm
bigdave , playing Crawford at pg is yet another reason why I’m not a fan of Woodrow. He is known to play guys out of position. The object is to play towards a guys strengths but Woodrow rarely does that. He would play Flip at pg last season when it was clear to anybody Flip is better suited at the 2 guard. He is not a pg. I remember when he would play Chillz at the pg which would make him ineffective because now he was bringing the ball up the court instead of hanging around the baseline which made him so effective. Yea Chillz could bring the ball up but he was best suited cutting and moving……Woodrow still hasn’t realized when he has Crawford at the point the ball movement suffers. The guy is not a pg………….I know some will discredit the last game of the season but there were a lot of things I liked about that game. The pg actually handled the ball instead of passing it off. The pg set up his teammates for easy open shots. The pg drove and kicked the ball. The offense wasn’t iso iso iso. Guys shared the ball and I saw guys cutting and moving. I don’t even remember a scoring lapse that game. I really wish we would play more like that.. Let the pg actually be a pg and have guys moving and sharing the ball and cutting to the rim for easy shots.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2010
6:28 pm
“This is what I’m talking about Grandad. We CAN’T win this series playing inside-out. Our inside guys can’t score on Dwight. Horford Neither Smoove nor Horford have the back to the basket offensive skills to get that done. ”
Playing inside-out and relying on inside scoring are two entirely different things. Horford is not going to score much in this series, and although Smoove has a somewhat favorable matchup against Rashard Lewis, he can only go with his left hand and it probably won’t take Dwight too long to realize that. But the Hawks would benefit a lot from getting Smoove the ball in the post with the full expectation that he passes it out to one of the perimeter shooters. Smoove is the most willing passer on this team, and he is the one guy who consistently hits perimeter jump shooters in rhythm when he gets them the ball. In the case of Joe, Jamal, etc. they pass the ball only after exhausting every one-on-one option and allowing the defense plenty of time to regroup, which means the recipient of their pass is never receiving the ball in a favorable position to score. Smoove only has to score often enough to keep the defense honest in order for playing inside-out to work.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2010
6:33 pm
Let me re-post this link bigdave posted on the previous blog — more good stuff from Sekou on Mayhem in the AM.
http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1345
dstdeelite
May 5th, 2010
6:40 pm
Are we talking about the Heat or the Hawks?
Dr. Dave
May 5th, 2010
6:40 pm
Mike Woodson is proving what his coaching skills really are in the playoffs. He can argue about an increase in win totals during the regular season for 5 years. With the talent they have acquired over the past few years, winning more during the regular season is a no brainer, especially in the Eastern Conference. Their record has been deplorable on the road, especially at the end of this season. Scotty Skiles schooled him over 7 games, without Andrew Bogut or Michael Redd on the court. Aside from Dwight Howard’s obvious abilities, most of the talent of Orlando is not better than ours. What everyone should take notice is that the Magic blew us out by playing Team Ball. For some reason, Woody thinks that when the game is on the line we should go to isolation plays with Joe and now Jamal. The other players are left to stand around until the shot clock runs down. We are far better when the ball is mooving around and all players are involved in the offense. Lastly there is no excuse for EVER not playing their guts out on defense.
vava74
May 5th, 2010
6:41 pm
“Superman always soars above the crowd when playing against poorly coached, undersized teams — like Atlanta, and unlike Charlotte.”*
This would give a beautiful sample for Joe Smith next tune!
* Charley Rosen @ msn.foxsports.com
Brian Hunt
May 5th, 2010
6:43 pm
In order to beat the Magic, the Hawks have to get rebounds. Period. The Magic are a good 3 point shooting team because they aren’t afraid to shoot them because Howard gives them a chance to get offensive rebounds if they miss. If you look back at the championship finals last season, the Lakers out rebounded them and took advantage of their inexperience. The Hawks forget their fundamentals and stop their ball movement, miss shots and get no second chances because they don’t rebound as well as the Magic. They have to move the ball on offense to get away from the Magic’s double teams, and go for the offensive rebounds when they miss.
Grandad
May 5th, 2010
7:06 pm
northcyde: [from last blog]
I’m sorry if you got you’re feelings hurt.
I didn’t intend for my humor to come across as name calling.
For that, I apologize, sincerely.
I am an advocate for tasteful discourse on this blog.
I can assure you that if malice were intended,
you would surely know it.
I too, enjoy good conversation about the sport I love.
I will continue to pull your leg, if the situation warrants,
as I have done with others on this board.
If you leave yourself open for parody, I may not be able to
restrain myself. So, If you say something as funny as benching
Al & starting Zaza, plus your really serious when you say it,
a spoof might just be in order!
However, I’ve noted your sensitivity.
Sincerely, G-dad.
FSJR
May 5th, 2010
7:08 pm
Good article, I like the details. “I think we can beat them” (JJ). “You look at it like a fluke” (Jamaal). “…I’ve got to take full responsibility…” (Woodson). They felt it better to concentrate on the first quarter not the remaining three (paraphrasing MC). I watched the game. The article revealed excuses, denial, and coach-speak. I usually have a drink per quarter while watching the Hawks play but could only have one drink and a sip during this game. I didn’t want to be under the influence if my screaming and cursing caused the neighbors to call the cops.
hoho
May 5th, 2010
7:08 pm
posted this the other day but….WHERE IS JOE SMITH??? is he hurt? is he actually in-active?
i don’t get it. thought he was part of the new improved bench for playoffs. ain’t that why sund brought him in?
Astro Joe
May 5th, 2010
7:25 pm
Glad to hear that the Hawks aren’t ready to have dirt poured over them.
bjb
May 5th, 2010
7:30 pm
I have three comments or questions about the Hawks
1 Mike Bibby is to slow to guard the other teams point guard.
2 Marvin Williams must score more or bench him.
3 Why wait until playoffs to play Jason Collins, why not use him in regular season so just maybe he could understand this basketball not football.
O'Brien
May 5th, 2010
7:56 pm
From the previous blog,
@northcyde,
I like the idea of starting ZaZa, and bring Al off the bench. One of the other blogging regulars had suggested the same thing earlier in the year when we were playing the Magic.
MC,
Have you gotten a chance to ask JJ if he’s doing ok? He has had 4 sub-par games in a row, and that’s very unlike him. Is his thumb still bothering him? Is he tired?
As for the Hawks believing, I’m sure they do. They believe when they’re in practicing, the believe when the game just starts, they believe when they’re leading. But once the Magic punch them in the mouth (on the road), more often than not, all their belief goes out the window (regardless of what they say).
And I dont know if there is anything Woody can do to change that this late in the season.
Marc
May 5th, 2010
8:01 pm
THE STARTING LINE TOMMORROW NEEDS TO BE:
C- JASON COLLINS (STAY ON DWIGHT) MAKE HIM SHOOT FREE THROWS (DOUBLE PUMP ON SHOTS-GET DWIGHT IN THE AIR (GO HARD!)
PF- AL HORFORD (INSIDE OUT GAME) MAKE THE RESPECT THE MID RANGE JUMPER
SF- JOSH SMITH (ROAM AND HELP)(DRIVE TO THE HOLE ON OFFENSE)
SG- JOE JOHNSON (HOLD DOWN VC) PASS THE BALL/PICK AND ROLL
PG- JAMAL CRAWFORD (TIRE OUT J. NELSON & REDDICK) GO TO THE HOLE
BENCH ROTATION
BIBBY OR TEAGUE (DEPENDING ON HOW BIBBY PLAYS)(PG)
MARVIN WILLIAMS (SF)
ZAZA (PF & C)
RANDOLH MORRIS (C)
The Truth
May 5th, 2010
8:17 pm
Woody said this:
“There were a couple of times where I thought Jason didn’t get a chance to defend him before the whistle blew. That is going to happen. We’ve just got keep banging him.”
My sentiments exactly; since I have already chastised Woody for not playing Collins enough during the regular season in preparation for this moment, I won’t rub it in again here. I think Collins is the only player we have on the roster that can match D Howard strength and size but certainly not his quickness though. But still, he is a smart veteran that can frustrate him if given the minutes. Woody should stay with him and anoint Collins as the “Hammer” and give him a unique responsibility as if his next contract depended on it. Since playoff basketball is a game of adjustments, Woody must go for the jugular if he expects to win this series. If he continues to be stubborn, inflexible and predictable, this thing will be over in 4.
DP
May 5th, 2010
8:26 pm
How about that quote from Woodson about just making it competitive in game 2, “win or lose” and then taking care of business at home? He ran up the white flag when he put Jason Collins in the game in the first quarter of game 1, now he’s all but conceding game 2.
To put last night’s embarrassment in perspective, the biggest margin of victory by a #1 seed over a #16 seed in the first round of this year’s men’s NCAA tournament was 29 points and the Hawks lost by 43.
banks
May 5th, 2010
8:33 pm
Here is the problem eveyone on this bolg is racking their brains to try to figure out the game plan for the hawks. The problem is we do not match up with the Magic. If syles makes fights then syles make bakestball games. Our syle of play does not match up well against Orlando. For the past five years we have never been able to close out on three point shooters and that is what Orlando does well shoot threes. The only way we beat Orlando is mental lasp by the Magic. Our problem is a combination of personel and coaching. MC wrote an article three days ago aluding to the low iq of our team and the difficult job Woody has in conveying simple concepts to theses guys. The is atheltic but not smart. That may be a reason for the iso joe, because this may be the only play mentally they can handle. So I am not excusing Woody but lets look at the whole picture. Our team maybe be like the fine girl at club. Looks good bangin body but outside of the bedroom and the club she has no substance and is dumb as hell.
Also Marvin Williams has to go he is a liablity on offense and defense. He cant hit an open shot and he consistantly messes up a fast break. Boy how different the team would be if we had Deron Williams. Marvin has to hit the open shot if not his man will be allowed to roam and double team.
If you Fire Woody take Marvin with him, but we can’t because we signed this guy to 5year 35 million dollar contract. Marvin is like herpes useless, agrevating and you can’t get rid of it
Fundamentals
May 5th, 2010
8:41 pm
First quarter looked great….and then we just gave up after they got a 5 pt lead? We checked out. Unprofessional, immature, no leadership. It falls on every player and coach on the team. They let us down. Nothing else can be said.
If you’re going to sell out, why beat the Bucks? At least they deserved the chance to try? We just rolled over. Change is needed, now or after the season. Your future is in your hands!
northcyde
May 5th, 2010
8:44 pm
@ Astro Joe . . . you know Woody is not going to let this team panic like that. JJ and Jamal know that they’re the ones that can’t let blowouts like that happen.
If I ever come down with depression or something of that nature, I want Woody to be my psychologist. Woody could be in a car, sinking in a lake, and he’d be like . . . . “I’m not scared. I’ll break outta here and swim to the top in a minute.”
@ Grandad . . . LOL, you dudes ain’t phazing me one bit man. I had discussions going on with about 4 different people on that last blog.
@ Najeh . . . which means that guys will still have to make shots, when Smoove does the exact same thing that you talk about Jj and Jamal doing.
Cause let’s be real at what we’re talking about here. You’re talking about running offense through Josh Smith down on the block, in what is essentially an ISO situation. If you’re talking inside-out, he’s down on the blocks ( or because he posts up to far from the basket at times . . about 15 ft away from the hoop ).
So basicaly, instead of JJ running ISO, it’s Smoove running ISO.
Smoove get the ball, looks for a cutter or a shooter on the perimeter. By the time the clock goes to 10 seconds, and if no double team has come, Smoove has to make the decision on how he wants to make his move to the hole. If someone comes open as he’s making his move, he passes.
So while it’s not the dribble ISO that JJ does, it’s still ISO.
The position I like Josh Smith with the ball, is in an ISO situation in the high post. This is where he can face his man and take him off the dribble. If his man plays too far off, ( which he usually does ), he’ll take the ill-advised 18 footer.
But Smoove is defintely one of the best passers on the team. When Woody uses him in the point forward role, it enhances his game. But he has to be scoring, in order for the defense to respect his offense.
Grandad
May 5th, 2010
8:51 pm
Someone mentioned Bibby’s leadership.
If body language says anything to that regard:
check out bibby on the main [Hawks] page.
Tell me he exudes leadership…Ha!
One would assume the game is still in progress.
Joe’s body language (appears to be suppressing a smile)
is not much better.
Nit-picking; not if you are a leader.
Bob Knight:
last game…next game theory.
“Forget the last one, win or lose & move on to the next one.”
As leaders they should have been offering encouragement,
should have been pissed off, something, anything, getting ready
for the next game as that one was playing out.
Gettin’ mad, that Orl. was layin’ it on us, anything…emotion.
Just sittin’ there like they are embarrassed. [probably were/so what]
Wdsn, sittin’ down there just letting his team take a beating,
not doing anything. Use all your TO’s, get tossed out,
turn a summersault, do something to show some fire in your belly!
We care & have more emotion on this board than Wdsn/Bibby/& Joe.
Next game start:
*Teaguer
*Mario
*Josh
*Al
*Zaza
@ least they will GATA!!!
Grandad
May 5th, 2010
9:10 pm
nc – If it was not fazing you then why did you mention it?
However, I’m glad your not easily fazed.
I would hate to phase you out as one of my blog friends.
By the way, overlook my sense of humor;
it’s just a phase I’m goin’ through.
Grandad
May 5th, 2010
9:12 pm
uh oh – *you’re
lewis
May 5th, 2010
9:46 pm
teage, rudy gay, al horford
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2010
10:13 pm
“If I ever come down with depression or something of that nature, I want Woody to be my psychologist. Woody could be in a car, sinking in a lake, and he’d be like . . . . “I’m not scared. I’ll break outta here and swim to the top in a minute.” ”
You’re right… but Woody’s solution will be to keep pressing the gas pedal as hard as you can and hope the car accelerates out of the water.
northcyde
May 5th, 2010
10:23 pm
Lol grandad . . . I mentioned it because it was you who snapped at me a few weeks ago. Then the other day you asked something along the lines of why do I attack or belittle people who disagree with me.
So me being the rational and logical blogger that I am, I was simply being good, even though people were ( sniff ) . . belittling me for my opinions.
But I’m like NEO in The Matrix. I can evade all that stuff with no problem.
Sarcasm by you, or anybody else, is always welcome.
Nate ArchiBALL
May 5th, 2010
10:28 pm
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive Team
First Team
Position Player, Team
Center Dwight Howard, Orlando
Guard Rajon Rondo, Boston
Forward LeBron James, Cleveland
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
Forward Gerald Wallace, Charlotte
Second Team
Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Points
Center Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Guard Dwyane Wade, Miami
Forward Josh Smith, Atlanta
Forward Anderson Varejao, Cleveland
Guard Thabo Sefolosha, Oklahoma City
Nate ArchiBALL
May 5th, 2010
10:36 pm
2009-10 NBA Defensive Player of the Year
PLAYER TEAM Total Points
Dwight Howard Orlando 576
Josh Smith Atlanta 136
Gerald Wallace Charlotte 113
LeBron James Cleveland 61
Rajon Rondo Boston 55
Ron Artest Los Angeles Lakers 29
Andrew Bogut Milwaukee 23
Thabo Sefolosha Oklahoma City 20
Anderson Varejao Cleveland 18
Dwyane Wade Miami - 13
Marcus Camby Portland - 13
Kobe Bryant Los Angeles Lakers 9
Shawn Marion Dallas - 8
Tim Duncan San Antonio - 7
Shane Battier Houston - 5
Andrei Kirilenko Utah - 4
Arron Afflalo Denver
David Lee New York
Ben Wallace Detroit -
Brendan Haywood Dallas
Matt Barnes Orlando -
Kendrick Perkins Boston -
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute Milwaukee
Kenyon Martin Denver
Nate ArchiBALL
May 5th, 2010
10:49 pm
Before you ask……
Defensive Player of the Year Award is selected by a panel of 124 sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada, each of whom casts a vote for first, second and third place selections. Each first-place vote is worth five points; each second-place vote is worth three points; and each third-place vote is worth one point. The player with the highest point total, regardless of the number of first-place votes, wins the award.
NBA All Defensive Team – 30 NBA coaches were asked to vote for the first and second defensive team based on position. Coaches were not allowed to vote for their own players.
Grandad
May 5th, 2010
10:50 pm
nc – If I snapped @ you then I apologize for that as well.
gettin’ on up in yrs., so I really don’t remember.
Not sayin’, I didn’t.
Mrs. Grandad’s always sayin’ the same thing:
“Why did you snap @ me?”
Oh well. Whatcha gonna do?
Not you, I’m just lamenting.
bigdave
May 5th, 2010
10:59 pm
good quality basketball on display tonight.. no gimmicks; defense, ball movement, floor spacing, open shots.
either one of these teams could win the World Championship.
Mystikal
May 5th, 2010
11:00 pm
HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!!
HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!!
HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!!
HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!!
HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!!
HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!!
HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!!
HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!!
HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!! HIRE BYRON SCOTT!!!
Grandad
May 5th, 2010
11:04 pm
Of course LbJ was on there. [1st team all defense]
He’s *protected, he doesn’t take the other teams best player:
e g – Battier, Artest, Chuck Hayes, even Joe having to guard the other team’s pt. because of Bibby. [by his coaches & by the officials]
He doesn’t lock anyone down [Kobe], he just chases down & swats.
How many votes did Stern get? LbL is good but the media hype,
causes other people to get overlooked. People who work and take
pride in their craft.
What!
May 5th, 2010
11:05 pm
FIRE MIKE WOODSON NOW!!!!
GET US A REAL BENCH NOW!!!!!!
NOW!!!!!
Grandad
May 5th, 2010
11:07 pm
*As [Kobe] does
*LbJ / not LbL – (I think he’s a barber in Hahira)
Clyde
May 5th, 2010
11:10 pm
FIRE WOODY
What!
May 5th, 2010
11:19 pm
TRADE MIKE BIBBY TO INDIANA FOR A.J PRICE!!!!! NEXT MO WILLIAMS!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9nIHfX4N4&playnext_from=TL&videos=TSf7rsX4XX8
GET THIS NO DEFENSE NO DRIBBLING CLOWN (BIBBY) OUTTA TOWN!!!!
SIGN TRAVIS OUTLAW AND BENCH MARVIN WILLIAMS!!!!!!
What!
May 5th, 2010
11:25 pm
TRADE MO EVANS B4 HE OPTS OUT!!!!!
WE AT LEAST GOT TO GET SOMETHING FOR ALL OF HIS SUCKING WE HAWKS FANS HAVE HAD TO PUT UP WITH!!!!!!!!
i_am_soulstar
May 5th, 2010
11:25 pm
they can’t do any worse tomorrow, go hawks!!!!
I would put the all defensive team in against the Magic WHEN they go on a 6-0 run.
PG Mario SG Mo Evans SF Marvin Williams PF Josh Smith C Al Horford
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2010
11:27 pm
Lil’ Jon, welcome to the Hawks blog.
Mystikal
May 5th, 2010
11:41 pm
I’m feeling the “LET TEAGUE PLAY!!” movement. It would suck for him to get his first real action against one of the best teams in the league, but that’s on Woody again. If Bibby averages 12 pts and Teague only 8, that is not bad considering Bibby would give up 20+ pts to whomever he guards while Teague could keep them in check more. What happened with Boston couple years ago when they handed Rondo the keys??
doc
May 5th, 2010
11:47 pm
at najeh, 10:13 too funny,
yes, the car was not trying hard enough
J-MAN
May 5th, 2010
11:52 pm
Joe Johnson needs to go Bibby needs to go and Woody needs to go unfortunately this lineup is not working
J-MAN
May 5th, 2010
11:54 pm
Sign Avery Johnson, and go after D wade of C bosh
J-MAN
May 5th, 2010
11:54 pm
Sign Avery Johnson, and go after D wade or C bosh
cp
May 6th, 2010
12:00 am
I just read that Woodson will let Bibby guard Nelson in tomorrows game. SMDH. I just dont know what to say about cat anymore. Nelson is playing some of his best basketball this year in the playoffs and Woodrows answer to defend him is to put the teams worst defender on him.. You have to be kidding me. At this point Bibby couldn’t guard Stevie Wonder. Well I’m already preparing for game 3 because I don’t see this going well at all.
Old Hawk Fan
May 6th, 2010
12:09 am
So NATE………………………WTF does that have to do with this series???????
Mystikal
May 6th, 2010
12:13 am
ATTENTION RICK SUND:
1) FIRE WOODY(DONT’ RESIGN HIM, WHATEVER)
2) HIRE BYRON SCOTT/AVERY JOHNSON(Pref Scott)
3) BE @ CHRIS BOSH’S FRONT DOOR SECONDS AFTER FREE AGENCY OPENS
AND OFFER HIM MAX DEAL. (Bring Dominique Wilkens and random ATL musician
to help seal the deal!)
Just do that for me and we can work on the rest (trade Bibby) later.
Old Hawk Fan
May 6th, 2010
12:14 am
Remember who Boris Diaw looked playing Under Woodson………………..then he is trade to Da Suns…………………….and blossom under the coach there. Woody is a hinderance to players developing. I thinks Marvin will play better under a different coach here. Bring in Kareem Jabar as head coach and watch how these guys develope. My second choich to replace Woody is Bill Lambeer.
lewis
May 6th, 2010
12:25 am
I’d like to see them bring in Vinnie Del Negro
Clyde
May 6th, 2010
12:26 am
I wonder how many points we are going to get blown out by tomorrow.
FIRE WOODY
Clyde
May 6th, 2010
12:29 am
Woody only believes in a certain number of players. This works in college and high school but in the NBA you have to believe in your bench. And you believe in them by developing them throughout the regular season.
FIRE WOODY
lewis
May 6th, 2010
12:29 am
could someone teach a hawks pg how to run a pick and roll?
prolly too much to ask for…
lewis
May 6th, 2010
12:30 am
FIRE WOODY
Dr. Warren
May 6th, 2010
1:20 am
Kevin Loughery deserves a shot at coaching the Hawks.
Joe's place Joe speaking
May 6th, 2010
2:15 am
Michael Cunningham or anybody with an educated guess,
Can you please explain how Josh Smith does not make the 1st team all defense???!! He was the ONLY player to record over 100 blocks and 100 steals and was the runner up for defensive player of the year!!!! How the £uck does Gerald or Kobe make it over Josh???? What a joke!!!
Grandad
May 6th, 2010
2:56 am
Here’s the clueless Atlanta side…
Orlando Magic — posted by bschmitz on May, 5 2010 12:15 AM
[Orlando Sentinel by Brian Schmitz]
Instead of talking Magic, let’s talk Hawks. They would be the team where the outline is drawn in yellow tape around their dead body.
Move along, folks. Nothing to see here.
This is supposed to be a rising club, loaded with terrific athletes. Great individuals don’t necessary make a great team.
The Hawks lost by 43 points to the Magic in Game 1.
Coach Mike Woodson was asked what happened.
“I wish I knew,” he said. “Your guess is as good as mine.”
That’s the kind of response that drives an owner to push a coach over the ledge.
“The calls did not go our way.” Hawks power forward Josh Smith said.
Yeah, a few more calls here and there, and you’d have lost by 37.
“The refs are not going to help them beat us by 50 points,” Smith said.
Freud couldn’t get a read on this Atlanta team.
It could be Woodson, it could be that they just don’t have a real leader. There’s a lot of feast-or-famine to them. They are front-runners, and when things go South, the Hawks go so South they must learn another language..
You can understand why Joe Johnson questions their mental toughness. You have to question Joe’s.
Jokeman 4000
May 6th, 2010
5:31 am
I No Im Late Responding, But If I Was Woody I Would Change My Whole Game Plan Around, Everybody Thinks Each Serious Is About Howard. NO It Is Not I Would Say If AnyThing Maybe Just Maybe He Is A DECOY By Me Saying That I Mean As In 4 Guys Would Be To Focused On Him And His Little Two Points Rather Then The Other 4 Guys Which Has Made That Team The Best 3-Point Shooting Team In The League. If I Was Woodson I Would Say Hey We Can Not Be Concerned About 1 Man On The Offensive End And The Deffensive End If We Do We Will End Up Just Like The Bobcats Cuz Thats Exactly What They Did. Hell I Would Say Let Howard Bet You And Take The Other 4 Games Out Of Their Game, Let Howard Catch The Ball The More Times He Catches It We Have A 50-50 Chance He Will Get Called For A Foul Or We Will But Do Not Let The Best 3-Point Shooting Team Get Going. Nelson,Carter,Lewis, Are The Guys To Every Single Series Not Howard Y Do People Think Just Because He Is Out Of A Game The Magic Will Pose No Threat To Any Team?????? They Are Still Able To Win He Is Just A Very Strong Decoy That Distracts Your Team From What Is Really Beating Them.And They Dont Realize It Until They Are Sent Home Looking At The Next Round From Their TV Screens.
Jokeman 4000
May 6th, 2010
5:45 am
I Dont Get It…. If We Was Playing IN College And Coach Told You What Plays To Run You Would Run Them Its The Same With NBA Woody Says Iso Joe So They Run Iso Joe We Cant Get Made At JJ For Not Passing The Ball He Is Only Doing What His Coach Tells Him. He Just Needs To Come Up With Plays That Envolves All His TeamMates So Its 50-50 50 On The Players On The Defensive End And 50 On The Coach For Always Calling The Same Play. I Always Felt That Iso Play Should Be If A Player Is Hot and Shooting Lights Out Not As A Regular Play You Run 85% Of The Time
Eric C.
May 6th, 2010
5:53 am
No leadership, no discipline, no mental toughness, etc. etc. etc.
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
6:19 am
WOODY DOESN’T CARE ABOUT WINNING TONIGHT. HE SAID “WIN OR LOSE.”
LMFAO
SMGDH
FIRE WOODY
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
6:21 am
“If we can just be competitive here for four quarters and make it a game, win or lose,” he said. “Make it a game. And then you go home and handle your business at home, which we’ve done. Anything can happen, but it can’t just be lopsided like it was [Tuesday] night.”
-Woody
WTF is this MORON talking about?. We LOST to the Bucks at HOME, you dumb@$$. So you don’t even WANT to win tonight, but it’d be nice? Can someone please send this quote to the dumb@$$ ASG or NBA and get the moron FIRED?
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
7:10 am
WOODY DOESN’T KNOW WHAT WENT WRONG THE OTHER NIGHT
LOL
O'Brien
May 6th, 2010
7:11 am
Despite having a top 5 PG in Steve Nash, Alvin Gentry still found consistent PT all season for his backup Goran Dragic. He played 1442 minutes during the season (compare that to 719 for Teague). In the playoffs, Dragic is averaging 6 pts and 2 assists in 14 mpg. And this allows Nash to be fresh down the stretch.
I know our bench is not as good as some of these other teams out there, but I think if Woody had allowed them to take their lumps early on in the season (including Teague), we would have been a better team down the stretch.
Because whats the point of 53 wins if you’re going to look this bad in the playoffs (we have looked bad in 4 out of 8 games)? Wouldn’t it be better to have 50 wins, but be playing good basketball in the playoffs?
That being said, I look for a great effort tonight. These Hawks are very inconsistent, but they have shown resiliency at times. I think they come out ready to play, I think JJ plays much better, and we keep it close into the fourth. I dont think we’ll win (I hope I’m wrong), but I think Hawks keep it close to 10.
OrlandoFan
May 6th, 2010
7:31 am
Woody:“Make it a game. And then you go home and handle your business at home, which we’ve done.”
This ‘win them all at home and steal one on the road’ attitude may have worked for the Bucks without Bogut, but does your coach really think wins against a full strength Orlando are assured because they are being played in Atlanta?
ANY win by Atlanta in games 3 and 4 will be an upset…any loss and the Hawks are finished (assuming Orlando wins tonight). No way on this Earth Hawks come back from 1-3 in this series against Orlando.
jeff
May 6th, 2010
7:33 am
Someone posted that JJ shows up for the playoffs. Do you not read stats? JJ is way off of his averages in all aspects of his game in the playoffs and not just this year. Go to NBA.com search JJ and you can see for yourself. JJ probably touches the ball in a given game more than anyone on the floor. (Both teams) Given this he should be averaging 20PTS, 10 ASSTs every game, he doesn’t come close to that. Reason? ISO JOE, He isn’t Kobe, LeBron, Wade, etc. But we have praised him for so long as well as Woody and the other players, that he is their all-star, he puts his name in that class. Sadly enough we go as Joe goes mentality is the down fall of this team. Therefore- he thinks the game or series can’t be one without him taking 25-30 shots, dribbling the shot clock down and hitting one of his infamous fade-away jumpers. This team and Joe would be so much better if JJ would pass the ball. But- no lets dribble, take a shot, miss, hope Al or Smith can rebound then they can get theirs (points).
I still like the idea that I mentioned is run the rotation to every 6-7 minutes, keep fresh bodies and legs on the floor. Plus- you limit JJ’s ISO’s.
Bottom Line- JJ passes the ball and gets 7-10 assists we will win tonight. If he loads the team up on his shoulders and gets 5 or less assists and continues to ISO all night we lose and lose big. This will be found out within the first 12 minutes tonight.
NEW APPROACH
May 6th, 2010
7:53 am
Okay, you know we cannot stop Howard, so don’t try to. Just single cover him and try to limit how close he gets to the basket. Let’s see if he can get 40 without any dunks and lay ups; and we know he struggles from the foul lline. More so try to shot down their 3pt game. We are a mobile, athletic team and we should be able to move our feet and play good enough defense to not get killed with their shooting. Let’s see how Jameer Neslson, Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter and company fare when they are not just bombing wide open shots.
So again game plan is to let Dwight get his and shut everyone else down. Dwight is not as good offensively as we make him look at times. Even if this method in not full proof, we should not lose by 40+ pts. Above all keep competing for 4 quarters and don’t lay down like other night.
Cali girl
May 6th, 2010
7:58 am
Just let Al play Dwight one on one no double team cause u saw that all Dwight does is pass it out to the perimeter shooters don’t double team also because then u get our big men in foul trouble
Dwight is not going to score 30+ points cause every shot under the rim is not going to just go in without some defensive effort let him keep scoring if not that if u foul him let him go to the line he’s not a good free throw shooter anyway
and hawks just go to the paint cause dwight makes dumb fouls anyway u have to drive to the rim to score and not settle for jumpshots because somebody is going to foul u going in the paint anyway!!
just play 48mins i still have some kind of hope
GO HAWKS!
Nacho
May 6th, 2010
8:08 am
Bibby don’t have leadership qualities.
1. He stands still on offense and watches.
2. He is the worst defender in the NBA.
3. He slows down our running game.
4. He is the worst defender in the NBA.
5. He dates Woody (something’s up)
jeff
May 6th, 2010
8:39 am
It isn’t just Bibby that don’t have leadership qualities. Woody or no one else for the Hawks have leadership qualities.
Mz. Hawkdafied
May 6th, 2010
9:19 am
The Hawks beat the Magic once in 08-09, once in 09-10, so it is fair to say they can beat them again. BELIEVE!
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
9:25 am
If we can just be competitive here for four quarters and make it a game, win or lose,” he said. “Make it a game. And then you go home and handle your business at home, which we’ve done. Anything can happen, but it can’t just be lopsided like it was [Tuesday] night.”
-Woody
WTF is this MORON talking about?. We LOST to the Bucks at HOME, you dumb@$$. So you don’t even WANT to win tonight, but it’d be nice? Can someone please send this quote to the dumb@$$ ASG or NBA and get the moron FIRED?
Chuck Harrison
May 6th, 2010
9:35 am
I am a long time Magic fan. Long before they were very good.
Im not going to tellyou what to do to be competitive…you could be. The matchups are not good for you. You would do better against Cleveland or Boston than us. But that is no reason tnat you can’t be competitive.
Regardless, as fans, you are pretty much a bunch of canables. Not all of you, but most. I supported our team when they were not very good. You have a good team that is stuck with a really bad matchup.
I would love for a few Atlanta fans to get on this blog and show some confidence and belief in your team. If they hear your words, it doesn’t give them much of any hope.
You do have a good team. If you don’t panic, you can tweak it and be exactly where you want to in the next few years.
oldmike
May 6th, 2010
9:56 am
I have been posting on these Hawks blogs for 3 years now. One thing for sure. The thread is always the same. ISO Joe is a no-go. FIRE WOODY. Give the rook PG more playing time. Weak perimeter defense. FIRE WOODY. All us posters share a passion for Hawks basketball. More of a passion for excellence in Basketball. A trait this team lacks big time. Ownership needs to look hard and intelligently at the make up of the squad and make the right decisions. I think this team is 2 moves from being elite.
1. Don’t dump max money on Joe. It strangles the franchise and will not bring back a title.
2. Don’t extend WOODY.
A new coach – any coach – needs to have a commitment to sharing the ball, finding a rotation that works as well as develops the players and prepares the team for the playoffs. Third seed means nothing if number 2 is the Magic and we are still playing dumd ball this late in the year in this year in the reign of Coach WOODY. Pay big bucks to Bosh.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
10:08 am
jeff
May 6th, 2010
7:33 am
Someone posted that JJ shows up for the playoffs. Do you not read stats? JJ is way off of his averages in all aspects of his game in the playoffs and not just this year. Go to NBA.com search JJ and you can see for yourself. JJ probably touches the ball in a given game more than anyone on the floor. (Both teams) Given this he should be averaging 20PTS, 10 ASSTs every game, he doesn’t come close to that. Reason? ISO JOE, He isn’t Kobe, LeBron, Wade, etc. But we have praised him for so long as well as Woody and the other players, that he is their all-star, he puts his name in that class. Sadly enough we go as Joe goes mentality is the down fall of this team. Therefore- he thinks the game or series can’t be one without him taking 25-30 shots, dribbling the shot clock down and hitting one of his infamous fade-away jumpers. This team and Joe would be so much better if JJ would pass the ball. But- no lets dribble, take a shot, miss, hope Al or Smith can rebound then they can get theirs (points).
I still like the idea that I mentioned is run the rotation to every 6-7 minutes, keep fresh bodies and legs on the floor. Plus- you limit JJ’s ISO’s.
Bottom Line- JJ passes the ball and gets 7-10 assists we will win tonight. If he loads the team up on his shoulders and gets 5 or less assists and continues to ISO all night we lose and lose big. This will be found out within the first 12 minutes tonight.
*************************
Jeff . . . how about keeping a note of this tonight. Keep track of how many passes to wide open shooters that JJ makes, and see how many shots that they miss.
People keep calling JJ a “ball-hog”, simply because he tries to take his man off the dribble, but don’t even see that he’s NOT EVEN TAKING THAT MANY SHOTS. In JJ’s current 4 game slump, the “ball hog” has taken 16 . . 24 . . 14 . . and 11 shots in a game. That’s a little over 16 shots per game during that stretch.
Any other star or lead scorer is taking 20+ shots a game.
The problem with JJ hasn’t been the shots he’s taking. He should be getting up MORE SHOTS. The problem with JJ, has been the turnovers.
People kill me trying to diss a guy who has ran ISO for 5 years, and had his 2nd best season as a Hawk in 2010. But act like everytime JJ misses a shot out of ISO, that it’s a bad thing. JJ HAS to take those shots. But when he’s off, JJ willingly scales back his shot selection, and defers to others. He’s done that his entire career when his shot is off.
So who do people want JJ to pass the ball to?
Bibby?
Marvin?
An ICE COLD Crawford ( who should be taking a hell of a lot more heat than he’s getting from this fan base . . who was all on his jock the entire season )
Oh I know . . . we can run offense in this series through Horford, even though Dwight Howard is guarding him.
I guess he can always pass to Smoove as well.
The bottom line is that JJ MUST jack up anywhere from 16- 22 shots a game, for us to win. That’s his job as the leading scorer and best shot creator on the team. Yes, he does need to get others involved, because that’s his job too.
But don’t get it twisted. We’re not winning anything with JJ getting up 15 shots a game in this series. Not when Dwight is causing havoc in the paint and frustrating our frontline players. JJ, and even Crawford, are going to have to shoot the ball and make some shots. I don’t care if it’s out of set plays, ISO, or transition.
For Real
May 6th, 2010
10:12 am
Starting line-up:
Joe PG
Marvin SG
Josh SF
Al PF
Joe Smith C
On defense play a 3-2 zone to take away the Magic’s outside game and use their 24 fouls on Howard. On offense pull whomever Howard is guarding away from the basket and run pick and roll with JJ, Marvin or Josh. The Hawks have the height advantage at the PG, SG, and SF position.
Orlando Magic News & Notes: Magic Hold Light Practice, Hawks Remain Confident | Howard the Dunk | An Orlando Magic Blog
May 6th, 2010
10:19 am
[...] You can find that story here. [...]
For Real
May 6th, 2010
10:19 am
Oh and when I say “pick and roll”. I mean roll ALL THE WAY TO THE BASKET! Not “pick and pop”. Make Howard block your shot on a strong move to the basket. Oh and can we please, please, please start using the freaking backboard!
nolerick
May 6th, 2010
10:20 am
Chuck Harrison
you are a very classy guy! I am a Hawks fan living in Orlando, and I read the blogs on the Sentinel, most of those guys are the most arrogant bunch fans I have ever seen. I like the Magic and ATL homeboy D12, but the fan base makes it hard to like the Magic.
O'Brien
May 6th, 2010
10:29 am
In last night’s close game against the Spurs, Steve Nash’s backup was 0-5, 0 points, 3 assists and 4 rebounds. But Gentry still lef thim out there for 13 minutes, in a close game.
I know that rotations tend to shorten in the playoffs, but I like what the Suns and Gentry are doing.
In the playoffs, the Suns have had 4 games decided by 9 pointr or less. However, in all 8 postseason games, they have played 10 players every single game, and no player has received less than 9 mpg.
northcyde,
Crawford has been horrible. But I wonder if people hold JJ to a higher standard because unlike Crawford, this is not his first year in the playoffs. Unlike Crawford, he is our 4 time all-star. Unlike Crawford, he is in the last year of his contract and will be looking for a MAX contract. For the last few games, he has not lived up to what you expect from a max player who talks about wanting to be in the conversation of elite players.
I’m not saying its right, and I’m not saying its all JJ’s fault (because the other players and coaches play a big role), but given the situation, JJ is going to get most of the heat.
SLAM ONLINE | » Atlanta Hawks Ready to Put Game 1 Behind Them
May 6th, 2010
10:31 am
[...] brave face, despite the beatdown they absorbed from Orlando in the series opener. They tell the AJC that they’re ready to even things up tonight: “It was just one game, but it was an embarrassment. ‘Yeah, it is,’ J.J. said at [...]
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
10:33 am
THE PLAYERS THINK THE GAME 2 NIGHTS AGO WAS A FLUKE. THEY ARE SHOWING NO SIGN OF URGENCY. THEY MUSTVE FORGOTTEN ORLANDO BEAT US BY 30 EVERY GAME THIS YEAR THEY WON AND LAST YEAR TOO
WHY IS THIS TEAM SUCH A JOKE?
FIRE WOODY
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
10:44 am
O’Brien . . . JJ should be held to a higher level. JJ knows he has to play better. Much is expected of JJ.
But nobody is saying much of ANYTHING about Crawford, who was our #2 scorer, and the guy that a lot of people were content being the replacement for JJ. At least MC pointed out in this blog about Crawford’s struggles, along with JJ. But Crawford was brought in SPECIFICALLY for this situation. To provide an additional creative scoring punch, to take some of the load off of JJ to do everything.
I mean damn . . . if Jamal was going to play like this in the playoffs, we would’ve been better off re-signing Flip Murray for another 3 years at 12 million. Crawford is taking almost no heat whatsoever for the situation this team has been in during the playoffs.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
10:59 am
Fan base talking to JJ:
“JJ . . you’re a ball-hog. Pass the ball. We need you to get 10 assists a game like Lebron . . even though we don’t want you thinking that you’re Lebron.”
“JJ . . Bibby can’t guard the other team’s PG, could you guard him please?”
“JJ . . we still need you to guard your man too. So could you guard the PG and the SG/SF at the same time, and shut them down please?
“JJ . . why aren’t you scoring more? We need you to score. But don’t do it out of ISO.”
“JJ . . why aren’t you speaking up in the huddle? We need you to be the team vocal team leader. Leading by example isn’t good enough. Scream at somebody.”
“JJ . . we need you to play PG, SG, SF, and a little PF. And if you would, could you play C too?”
“JJ . . Marvin won’t rebound, so could you do it for him please?”
******************
JJ’s Response: ( low key voice ) “ok”
Fundamentals
May 6th, 2010
11:00 am
I’m dreaming that we’ll actually come out with a sense of urgency and intensity to prove we are professionals.
Here’s a summary of the series:
We’re headed for another embarrassing 2nd round exit.
#1 – Our team has no real emotional leader. We just don’t care
#2 – Woodson has sealed his fate
#3 – Joe Johnson isn’t proving he’s worth max money
#4 – Folks are realizing Crawford had these consistency problems in GS and NY
We’ve sealed our own fate by not adequately preparing our bench, by not learning to play as professionals and by keeping a coach who just can’t man up, hold kids accountable and just say what everyone can see. We have no leader, we have no chemistry, we just don’t care!
Sad thing is I’ve dreamed we did all year, just to wake up to this nightmare.
Right now I feel most sorry for the Bucks. At least they would’ve tried.
I predict 4-1 series to the Magic. We’ll man up and win one, just to cloud the issue and divide the fans. Sad thing is this is a pretty good year to shoot for the title with Lebron injured and having fits with Boston.
DEPRESSION IS SETTING IN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FromUpNorth
May 6th, 2010
11:02 am
@Nacho: Bibby must have some blackmail material on Woody or something. There’s no other explanation for why he gets to start, even though the most casual Hawks fan knows that Bibby is terrible defensively. He’s a great jump shooter (when he’s “on”), but otherwise, he’s a liability on the court. Can’t think of any other competitive NBA teams that would start the guy at this stage in his career.
@Chuck Harrison: Most of us actually DO like the Hawks. We like them enough to realize that they are not playing up to their abilities. This is frustrating to us “true” fans. A casual observer wouldn’t give a rat’s butt. We do. We (most of us, anyway) know enough about the game to know this team has the skill to be great, but lacks leadership. And that has been the undercurrent of the Hawks organization for some years now. THAT is why we all sound like a bunch of whiners on this blog. We’re mad as heck. Trust me, I know how it feels to support a team – been a longtime fan of MANY throughout my life, good and bad times included. It’s heartbreaking when a team you care about doesn’t live up to their potential. Same can be said for children. Doesn’t mean you don’t still love them, but there comes a point when “tough love” has to take over.
Fundamentals
May 6th, 2010
11:04 am
Amen Northcyde. Joe can and has done it all, but he’s always sittin second fiddle waiting for someone else to take over his team.
It’s not in Joe to be the Max money, leader of this team.
He’s the best complimentary player anyone could ask for.
We look like the Bulls when Scottie Pippen thought he didn’t need Michael – yeah, that worked. Taught Scottie a real lesson….his team needed a real leader, not a wannabe!
Fundamentals
May 6th, 2010
11:06 am
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN FromUpNorth!
Best shot since I’ve been watching for a title run and we just don’t care.
That’s 27 years of watching every game CHUCK!
VenomSpitter
May 6th, 2010
11:12 am
FIRE WOODY
SIGN AND TRADE JOE
FromUpNorth
May 6th, 2010
11:14 am
Well dang, Fundamentals, I’d say with that kind of track record, you’re probably one of the most loyal Hawks fans ever, LOL.
Still holding out hope that the guys will play with some fire in their guts tonight….
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
11:17 am
Jeff, don’t blame JJ for Iso-Joe. Blame Woody.
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
11:24 am
everyone by now knows northcyde is a joke.
He gets his panties up in a bunch anytime someone criticizes Joe or Woody.
According to northclyde, JJ is playing great basketball now — his invisibility in the last few games sure indicates that. His saying “we need to look in the mirror….” is a perfect statement for him to make instead of “I NEED TO BECOME A LEADER.” It’s amazing how this guy never takes the sole responsibility for anything
He’s not a leader or a superstar and signing John Salmons this offseason will not make us much worse next year.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
11:42 am
Fundamentals . . . that’s part of the problem. People are wanting JJ to be the “superstar”, and fully ready to sacrifice him in order to find one. But there are none available.
The problem with Pippen after Jordan left wasn’t that he wasn’t a superstar. The problem was that when Pippen became the leader of the squad, there was no one there to fill Pippen’s old role. Pip averaged 22 ppg – 9 rebs – 6 assists the year after Jordan left. But there was no on on the squad who could come close to complimenting Pippen the way Pippen did Jordan.
And to be honest, that was Nique’s problem as well.
There are only 5 players in the league that are asked to do what all JJ does for their team
- Kobe
- Lebron
- Wade
- Brandon Roy
- and Joe Johnson
Tyreke Evans, if he keeps it up, will be added to this list as well. But that’s pretty much it.
cdog
May 6th, 2010
11:44 am
the hawks need to play strong on both ends tonight.we can’t rely on jump shots to win.we can’t be afraid to go after dwight howard inside.a win tonight and we have home court advantage coming home with 3 games at phillips where we play on a different level. dominte hawks!
Grandad
May 6th, 2010
11:46 am
nc:
It’s statements like the last one that cause me to poke fun @ you.
When I said:
“You’re all hat & no cattle’:
I was sayin’ you talk alot but w/o foundation.
Joe is somewhat (”only”) somewhat like Greg Maddox, great in reg. season, not so great in play-offs. [only way he's like Mad Dawg]
Why are you defending him when [even] Wdsn is sayin’ he’s in a slump.
I’ve been on record on this board as saying Joe is a complete player.
but even a complete player can play bad.
Why do you have to blame his teammates for his foibles.
O'Brien
May 6th, 2010
11:48 am
Northcyde,
With Flip instead of Crawford, I dont think the Hawks win 50 games. But Crawford’s playoff average this year is very similar to what Flip gave us last year (in the playoffs).
Crawford – 14.5 pts, 3 assts, 3 rebs
Flip – 12 pts, 3 assists, 3 rebs.
And when you compare the salary differences…Yeah, Crawford needs to step it up big time.
Grandad
May 6th, 2010
11:50 am
oldmike:
Absolutely wonderful post.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
May 6th, 2010
11:57 am
Heart is not something that can be coached – cause the coach has none. This team goes as the coach and star player goes.
Nate ArchiBALL
May 6th, 2010
11:59 am
@ Old Hawk Fan – Just needed something else to discuss until game two. Discussions on game one are getting stale. I’m ready for game two.
Fundamentals
May 6th, 2010
12:00 pm
Northcyde,
Pippen declared himself the leader, he said he could handle the load, but in the end he couldn’t. His team didn’t respect him, they didn’t play for him, they didn’t do the little things to make it happen.
Joe is an awesome player, but right now our kids need a Jordan, an Alonzo, a Hakeem, a real leader to step up, demand excellence and get our team to play to it’s potential.
They’re all in it for themselves, not for our team! They gave up Tuesday night. No other way to put it. To lose by more than 20 pts just shows you just didn’t care.
Responsibility falls on all of them, but most importantly on the one’s wearing the C’s and the head coach. Be accountable! You’ve got a couple million reasons why you should. Most important ones don’t involve money.
Michael Cunningham
May 6th, 2010
12:01 pm
@everyone clowning me for mistakes: i deserve it. blog went live before i intended. instead of taking it down after comments were posted i just left it up and continued to update.
@o’brien: “MC, Have you gotten a chance to ask JJ if he’s doing ok? He has had 4 sub-par games in a row, and that’s very unlike him. Is his thumb still bothering him? Is he tired?” he says “no excuses”
Justin
May 6th, 2010
12:04 pm
Anybody with ESPN Insider subscription checked out Hollinger’s article on the Hawks’ style not suited for playoffs? I just read the intro but I’m not a subscriber. Just curious what the main point of his argument is…
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
12:04 pm
LOL @ JeJe . . . the man who has nothing to offer to the blog but FIRE WOODY, is trying to say something about me? hahaha
I’ve repeatedly have said that JJ needs to play better . . a lot better. That isn’t even a question. I
Idiocy is believing that turning over the reigns to a Salmons – Crawford backcourt, will make the Hawks better. That’s what Chicago thought, when they let Ben Gordon walk, thinking Salmons would step up and be a decent sidekick to Derrick Rose. LOL . .they had to trade him, because he was underperforming in Chicago.
Michael Cunningham
May 6th, 2010
12:05 pm
@joe’s place: “Can you please explain how Josh Smith does not make the 1st team all defense???!! He was the ONLY player to record over 100 blocks and 100 steals and was the runner up for defensive player of the year!!!! How the £uck does Gerald or Kobe make it over Josh???? What a joke!!!”
i was surprised by that. all i can tell you is media votes for D player of the year and coaches vote for all-defensive.
jeff
May 6th, 2010
12:10 pm
Crawford- FG%-.352 APG- 2.6 PPG- 14.5
ISO Joe- FG%-.418 APG-5.4 PPG-19.5
Smoove- FG% .512 APG 2.9 PPG- 13.3
Big AL- FG%-.527 APG 1.5 PPG 14.1
Bibby- FG% .441 APG 2.9 PPG 9.9
Mo- FG% .405 APG 5.6 PPG14.6
Marvin-FG% .441 APG 1.0 PPG 9.4
Start Mo, sit Marvin
Blue
May 6th, 2010
12:11 pm
I don’t think it’s a matter of IF the Hawks win tonight. It’s a matter of HOW MANY POINTS will they lose by.
Blue
May 6th, 2010
12:16 pm
MC,
You’re on point about Josh making the second all-defensive team being a joke! Freaking Gerald Wallace over Smoove! What the hell!
LarryWilcox
May 6th, 2010
12:21 pm
NBA fans from all over the world will be SHOCKED at the result of tonights Hawks/Magic game. The Hawks will get revenge for the game 1 demolition of the Hawks by the Magic by putting a hurtin on the Magic themselves tonight when the Hawks beat them by at least THIRTY POINTS. I expect the hawks to win the game by a score something like 130-100. Im sticking by that prediction and I’d be shocked out of my mind if it didnt happen something like that.
PRESTONI
May 6th, 2010
12:26 pm
Enter your comments here
Why not have a Woody-Out instead of a White-Out for the next Home Game? I’m sure that there would be Many People willing to pitch in to make up these T-Shirts. The fact that I would even entertain the idea of Losing to the Bucks as a Positive just to be sure that Woodson is gone, shows just how bad this situation really is. Woodson is like the Fat Guy on the TV Series LOST–he has been on this Island for many years now and has yet to lose a Single Pound. Nothing ever changes with Woodson either–he just doesn’t get it.
rusty
May 6th, 2010
12:30 pm
hawks,use common sense all of the rest of the teams in the nba do pass & move until someone is open for an easy shot. i know woody doesnt understand this concept,joe might but he needs to control the ball. mb brings nothing to the offense.we been on this road for 5 years. we need to change this.
Justin
May 6th, 2010
12:36 pm
@Larry- The Hawks may need 2 full games to score 130. They just don’t know how to score against Orlando.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
12:36 pm
O’Brien
May 6th, 2010
11:48 am
Northcyde,
With Flip instead of Crawford, I dont think the Hawks win 50 games. But Crawford’s playoff average this year is very similar to what Flip gave us last year (in the playoffs).
Crawford – 14.5 pts, 3 assts, 3 rebs
Flip – 12 pts, 3 assists, 3 rebs.
And when you compare the salary differences…Yeah, Crawford needs to step it up big time.
***************
What would Marvin’s numbers look like without Crawford here? One of the reasons why he got the money last year, was that it finally looked like he was turning the corner as a player ( before he got hurt ). And one of the major reasons why his numbers were down, is due to Crawford taking a few shots from him,
I agree that we wouldn’t have won 53 games without Crawford’s contributions. He played great almost the entire year. All I’m saying is that we brought Crawford in here specifically for this situation.
And if he were going to revert back to the “old Jamal” come playoff time, we might as well have kept Flip here, signed him for the cheap, and have a whole lot more cap room to do something in the offseason to add to the team.
PLAYOFFS:
Crawford: 14.5 ppg – 2.9 rebs – 2.6 asst – 35% FG – 1 stl – 2 turn
Flip: 11.8 ppg – 2.7 rebs – 2.5 asst – 34% FG – 1 stl – 1.3 turn
SMH . . . we can’t have him playing like Flip.
Mystikal
May 6th, 2010
12:39 pm
The problem with ISO JOE is that it uses the entire shot clock, no one else touches the ball so everyone just stands there. It would be okay if it were just situational and we need a basket. That often becomes the offense, though. Also JJ gets too locked in sometimes. He will have a man with an open look, but he instead shoots a difficult shot. Despite adding Jamal Crawford, this is just not a great offensive team. Bibby can shoot (when he can get open), JJ can get his own shot (but often leaves everyone else standing around), Marvin is as inconsistent as they come, Josh Smith gets buckets off transition and rebounding(can’t shoot outside, has no real post moves, & can’t really put ball on the floor, but gets pass cause of his defense), and Al probably could be a good post player if he wasn’t always playing as an undersized center (but he’s a great passer and bball IQ). Jamal Crawford can nearly score from anywhere. He comes in with that second unit and has the green light at all times. He’s a better passer than he gets credit for, but no one else offensively inclined on that second unit.
All these things came together pretty well in the regular season for the most part. The playoffs is when everyone steps there game up and you have to be able to execute when teams take you out of what you’re used to. When the game gets ugly and none of the above works we have nothing to turn to. Woody has no back-up plan, no motivational words, no adjustments that HE sees. And we saw all that unfold ugly the other night.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
12:43 pm
LMAO @ Jeff . . . trying to boost up Mo Evans numbers. Why?
Mo is averaging 2.1 ppg and is shooting a whopping 31% FG . . . but you want to start him over Marvin?
That’s why I do what I do on this blog. You have some genuine folks on here who spit the facts, while others simply say stuff, simply because they don’t like a particular player.
REALITY CHECK
May 6th, 2010
12:46 pm
We keep dumping on our hawks and rightfully so because they just gave up. But let’s
point out the obvious:
1) Magic are playing for a championship, Hawks are trying to do better than they did last year
2) We do not match up with them like we do against Boston and Cleveland
3) With Dwight and all their shootes it gets lost that they play great defense
4) Hawks have to lose the homer mentality, road games count too
5) Orlando is just a better team
Mystikal
May 6th, 2010
12:52 pm
Woody has brought this team along way since he came here. He did help the team get better consistently every year. That being said, this is a business. And in this business what you do in the playoffs counts more. When the playoffs come around and he has to match wits with great coaches, it is over before it starts. He’s done a good job, but he’s taken this team as far as he can. This team and the fans need and deserve better.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
12:58 pm
I don’t know Reality Check. People have been dumping on the Hawks ALL YEAR, even when we were winning at a 65% clip. I guess that’s the nature of all fan bases though.
LOL @ ESPN . . . saying that the Hawks have lost 21 straight Best of 7 series, when losing Game 1.
Well. . the great thing about this team this year, is that they’ve been reversing long losing trends all year. Maybe they’ll reverse this trend as well.
Mystikal
May 6th, 2010
1:01 pm
I have always supported the hawks from back in the Kevin Willis days. When Nique left I didn’t jump ship. All the times they regularly got embarassed I as there. When they passed over Chris Paul and even after they took Sheldon Williams, SHELDON FREAKING WILLIAMS, i’m still a hawks fan.
We get on them because we do care so much. Being a loyal fan doesn’t mean you can’t stay true to the game if you are a true basketball fan. When they do stupid things are are not trying we call them on it, plain and simple. It takes a toll watching your team crash and burn year after year, but in my heart of hearts I want to see the hawks do well!
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
1:02 pm
Well. . the great thing about this team this year, is that they’ve been reversing long losing trends all year. Maybe they’ll reverse this trend as well.
How do you figure that? The fact that we lose to them every time by about 30 before our scrubs cut it down to a “respectable” 18 point loss? Or the fact that Woody “has no idea what happened” on Tuesday night and said he has not figured the Magic out?
The Hawks are as good as a rusty Magic team or Orlando’s 2nd team. There’s no way we win more than 1 game in this series, if we do win 1
jeff
May 6th, 2010
1:03 pm
Clyde relook up your numbers.
jeff
May 6th, 2010
1:07 pm
My bad Clyde. I looked at Mo Willams of Cleveland for another blog I was locked in on.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
1:08 pm
“There are only 5 players in the league that are asked to do what all JJ does for their team
- Kobe
- Lebron
- Wade
- Brandon Roy
- and Joe Johnson”
Huh? Nash, Paul, Deron Williams, Tim Duncan, and Melo don’t do as much for their teams as Joe?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
1:09 pm
“There are only 5 players in the league that are asked to do what all JJ does for their team
- Kobe
- Lebron
- Wade
- Brandon Roy
- and Joe Johnson”
Huh? Nash, Paul, Deron Williams, Tim Duncan, Durant, and Melo don’t do as much for their teams as Joe?
Mystikal
May 6th, 2010
1:12 pm
Northcyde, I agree that it would be great to keep Joe, but don’t know if he would stay here for what he’s actually worth. He is not a max player and maybe he will acknowledge that after these playoffs. But if someone else (Knicks) comes along and throws a bunch of money at him, I’d rather lose him then overpay and handicap the team for the next 5 yrs. Personally, I think we should go after Chris Bosh anyway.
jeff
May 6th, 2010
1:15 pm
And he is making a whopping $14,978,754 this year. Sad thing he is looking for more than that
Chuck Harrison
May 6th, 2010
1:15 pm
nolerick,
Thanks for the props. I agree that many fans on a team that has become a contender do become arrogant. That seems to be part of the human condition. Discouragement also seems to be part of that same condition.
FromUpNorth, & Fundamentals,
I know the pain of loving your team & being saddled with Grant Hill’s bad ankle. Not good times.
My main point is, you have some great coe players. If the management doesn’t panic, you are not too far away from being in that elite company. You guys are right there. We have been paying out the large contracts with little results for a long, long time. Atlanta is much further along than most of these bloggers are making it sound.
As a Magic fan, I am not wanting you to win any games. However, if you were playing anyone else in the East, I would be. This year likely isn’t the year for you to progress. (At least I hope not.) But…I look for our teams to be battling in the finals for a long time.
The best of luck, but not this year.
O'Brien
May 6th, 2010
1:20 pm
John Hollinger’s latest on ESPN: It looks he has been doing some research. Its a long read, so feel free to scroll.
“I wrote an article recently about playoff myths — things people think change in the playoffs, but in fact don’t.
However, there’s another piece to that puzzle. Perhaps there are things people don’t think change in the playoffs, but in fact do.
I may have accidentally stumbled upon one in observing my two “home” teams, Atlanta and Portland, compete in the playoffs over the past two seasons. Watching the Hawks in particular, nearly every commentator has been shocked by how little ball movement their offense generates and how many times they end up isolating Joe Johnson while everybody else stands around and watches.
This complaint might sound familiar to folks in the Northwest, because it’s not altogether different from what the Blazers do with Brandon Roy. Both teams’ fan bases constantly complain about the lack of originality and shameless predictably inherent in such an attack.
The similarities don’t end there. Both teams are coached by former players — Mike Woodson for Atlanta and Nate McMillan for Portland — with a no-nonsense, old-school mentality.
And both have been wildly successful with this system. In fact, if you look at the numbers, you wonder what everybody’s upset about. Both Atlanta and Portland are far better offensive teams than people realize — their slow pace, low turnover rate and monstrous offensive rebounding numbers mask their efficiency.
In the regular season, Atlanta played the league’s fourth-slowest pace and the Blazers played the slowest, so their points-per-game numbers aren’t reflective of how well they played at the offensive end. Neither are their shooting percentages: The Hawks were only 14th in true shooting percentage at 54.5 and the Blazers barely ahead of them at 54.7.
Yet if you look at the offensive efficiency standings, the two clubs had few peers. Atlanta, believe it or not, had the league’s third-best offense this season at 108.9 points per 100 possessions, while the Blazers were eighth despite being wracked by injuries. This was actually just more of the same — a season ago a healthier Portland team was second, while Atlanta (without the scoring of Jamal Crawford off the bench) was 10th.
It turns out the iso-heavy offense has some benefits. Though hard on the eyes, the “iso-Joe” and “iso-Brandon” attacks produce remarkably few turnovers. Since both Roy and Johnson are good ballhandlers and nothing technically precise was asked of the other players, Atlanta and Portland were first and second, respectively, in avoiding turnovers.
Additionally, perhaps because they knew when to time their runs to the board while Johnson and Roy created shots, both Atlanta and Portland landed in the top five in offensive rebound rate — each grabbed 28.4 percent of missed shots.
In other words, theirs is a volume strategy. The Hawks and Blazers might not take better shots than other teams, but they take a lot more of them. Over time, that gives them enough of an advantage to make them potent offensive squads overall.
So what’s the problem?
Apparently, there isn’t one … until Game 83. Remember when I was talking about things that change in the playoffs? One change is that these iso-heavy offenses apparently have a lot more trouble when opponents have time to game plan against them in a playoff series.
Take a look at the playoff results from these teams the past two seasons, and the conclusion is hard to ignore. If this happened in any one playoff series, we might be able to dismiss it as a short-term fluke. But the fact that it’s happened six times in six series tells us that maybe something about isolation-heavy offenses doesn’t function well in an environment in which opponents have several days to scout, game-plan and match up for this specific tactic.
We’ll start with Portland. The Blazers were the second-best offense in 2008-09 in the regular season, and met the fourth-best defense from Houston in the first round. Based on the opponent, we would have expected some drop-off from the Blazers, yes, but among the 16 playoff teams, they were only eighth in offensive efficiency.
The Blazers were as successful as before at avoiding turnovers, but they couldn’t make shots and couldn’t get the misses. In particular, the Rockets eliminated their second shots, taking the league’s top regular-season offensive rebounding team down to 11th among 16 playoff teams. Portland’s TS percentage also dropped from eighth among 30 teams to 12th out of 16.
In 2009-10, Portland faced a much weaker defensive team in Phoenix, but basically the same thing happened. While some of this can be pinned on Roy’s injury, the numerical changes were virtually identical to a year earlier — they were just as good at avoiding turnovers, but missed a lot more shots and didn’t rebound nearly as many of them.
Let’s move on to Atlanta. In 2008-09 the Hawks played 11 playoff games, a larger sample than the Blazers have to offer, and seven of them were against a fairly average Miami defense (the other four, however, were against a robust Cleveland D).
The same thing happened that befell the Blazers: Atlanta stopped making shots. The Hawks had the second-worst TS percentage of any playoff team, and finished the postseason 13th in offensive efficiency.
This year, we’re seeing the same movie. The Hawks have faced two very strong defenses, with Milwaukee ranking third in Defensive Efficiency and Orlando second. But while seven of their eight games were against the Bucks, Milwaukee was without perhaps its best defender in center Andrew Bogut.
Nonetheless, the results have been the same.
Atlanta, as the league’s third-best offense, should at least be able to battle these defenses to a draw. But even before Tuesday’s Game 1 implosion against Orlando, they were struggling. The Hawks can’t make shots, ranking just 14th out of 16 teams in postseason TS percentage. While they’ve still been able to generate second shots (they lead all teams in playoff Offensive Rebound Rate) and have been somewhat successful at avoiding turnovers, the net result put the Hawks 11th among the 16 playoff teams in postseason Offensive Efficiency.
So what is it? Perhaps the Hawks and Blazers have just had some bad games against some pretty good defenses. But between the two, we’ve built up a 31-game sample showing that something more nefarious might be at work.
Obviously, this has important implications for Atlanta’s Game 2 in Orlando on Thursday. Iso-Joe has had its moments; Game 4 of the 2008 Boston series, for instance, when Johnson single-handedly tore apart one of the best defensive teams in history. But in the aggregate, its failures have been far greater than its successes, and it’s notable that the most similar offensive team has faced similar troubles.
Is there something about iso-heavy offenses that makes them vulnerable in the playoffs? We can’t say it with certainty yet, but the case is building rapidly. The Hawks have three games left to show that Iso-Joe can be as effective in May as it is between November and April”.
Lacsho
May 6th, 2010
1:41 pm
Nice read O’Brien!!!!!
Fire Woody
Ramon
May 6th, 2010
1:47 pm
Seriously wondering why the Hawks have never tried a version of the triangle as their base offense? They have the perfect pieces for it. And it doesn’t require a top notch point guard, only a point guard who can knock down open shots.
drmaryb
May 6th, 2010
1:51 pm
Damn! HOF Defensive End/Tackle Lawrence Taylor “LT” arraigned in NY court today for 3rd Degree –
Rape Charges! Having Sex with 15 year old girl? ALLEGEDLY.
Wow! I thought he had stopped smoking crack. Hehe!
Fundamentals
May 6th, 2010
1:58 pm
Chuck
I see your point. I’ve preached all year. I know we have some great pieces, we just need to learn to maximize talent. We have no leader to encourage that from a coaching or player standpoint. We all know this.
Now it’s time to see what happens. The only thing injured for us is our pride and heart. Grant’s ankle was one of the most heartbreaking stories I’ve seen over the years. you knew the kid wanted to play, you knew they were ready to do great things, but injuries just killed the Magic. That was us last year in a sense.
This year is different. Everyone is healthy. Everyone should be ready. I wouldn’t say the Magic beat us Tuesday. We were in it till we decided to quit. We went away from solid play and solid D. We went from moving the ball and sharing the offense to standing around and watching ISO plays. We didn’t crash the glass on either end. Result = no competition for the Magic.
We could make this a series, but it’d take a real close look in the mirrow to find inside our team what we need before it’s too late.
I fear what the summer might bring. Everybody wants something different. I just pray we emerge with a solid TEAM who can mesh and play together.
Seems our chemistry is in question by alot of folks.
Tim Tebow's Tears
May 6th, 2010
2:04 pm
Woodson is the worst coach in the NBA
sleepy
May 6th, 2010
2:06 pm
Crawford has played 7 playoff games he has had 4 ok to great games and 3 bad games which everyone should expect some adjustment time as we go from series to series.
What gets lost in all the scuffle is that we have a starting lineup thats been together for 3 years now thats over 300 games together . There is no reason that this team should ever lose the way its losing . When these types of losses occur you have to reevaluate your core . Sure we can focus on the fact that our 6th man has been inconsistent in his first playoff action but the bottomline is the starting 5 is what propels teams to advance if that starting unit is not playing at the top of the game you are going nowhere and if you look back over the season the I would say that the starters as a unit has not been at the top of there games as a unit since well before the all star break.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
2:18 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
1:08 pm
“There are only 5 players in the league that are asked to do what all JJ does for their team
- Kobe
- Lebron
- Wade
- Brandon Roy
- and Joe Johnson”
Huh? Nash, Paul, Deron Williams, Tim Duncan, and Melo don’t do as much for their teams as Joe?
Are Chris Paul or Deron asked to guard the other teams best offensive guard?
Are Melo and Tim Duncan asked to be the main playmaker for their squads?
Those six guys that I named are asked to do both things.
This is NOT about which guys are better than the other. This is about what their perspective teams are asking their star players to do. Tim Duncan can do it all, but even he isn’t expected to lead the team in scoring on most nights. Not anymore anyway. Melo isn’t asked to be a scorer and a playmaker and a defensive stopper.
Chris Paul was hurt this year, but if you want to add Paul to that list, you can . . because he can do just about everything too.
I’m just saying that guys like Kobe, Lebron, Wade, JJ, Roy, and Evans are asked to do it ALL.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
2:23 pm
Mystikal
May 6th, 2010
1:12 pm
Northcyde, I agree that it would be great to keep Joe, but don’t know if he would stay here for what he’s actually worth. He is not a max player and maybe he will acknowledge that after these playoffs. But if someone else (Knicks) comes along and throws a bunch of money at him, I’d rather lose him then overpay and handicap the team for the next 5 yrs. Personally, I think we should go after Chris Bosh anyway.
****************
So who are you going to trade in order to get Chris Bosh? With the tax situation in Canada, I’d doubt that JJ would agree to a sign in trade to Toronto for Bosh. So who do you trade? Smoove? Horford? Will they take Crawford?
People need to understand that we just can’t go out and get a player, because we don’t have the cap room ( due to the Crawford trade ). Even if JJ leaves, we only have the MLE to sign somebody.
And congrats to JOE JOHNSON . . . for making 3rd Team All-NBA
Just seen on NBA.com
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
2:25 pm
MIKE WOODSON SAID TONIGHT IS WIN OR LOSE
THERE IS NO SENSE OF URGENCY ON THIS TEAM. THEY THINK THE GAME 2 NIGHTS AGO WAS A FLUKE.
MAGIC WILL BE UP 18 AT SOME POINT IN THE 2ND QTR JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CAVS/MAGIC GAME WE’VE SEEN THE LAST 2 YEARS
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
2:27 pm
Congrats again JJ
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/05/06/all.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt1
lewis
May 6th, 2010
2:29 pm
joe’s the 15th best player in the nba
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
2:34 pm
FIRE MIKE WOODSON
Padded Cell Urban
May 6th, 2010
2:38 pm
I will cry if Woody is fired. Has anyone see T-Boy? I take Thursdays off to stay with family except for the Thursdays that come after Wednesdays.
Nacho
May 6th, 2010
2:40 pm
Why did the NBA allow the Suns to become a political toy last night? Strange.
Fundamentals
May 6th, 2010
2:40 pm
northcyde
It’s obvious folks are already looking to the offseason. I don’t see any big trades or signings unless Joe leaves. If he stays we’ll most likely shed collins, Joe Smith, Mo Evans, Randolph Morris and Mario West. The real question is who can we sign? We don’t have the $$ to look for marquee guys. We need to find young talent that has been overlooked. We need to pull a San Antonio where we find rising gems. I know this has never been our strong suit, but it’s our only chance for continued success.
Problem with Woodson is he doesn’t take chances on young or new players. We need a coach focussed on developing our entire team for playoff strength.
It’s obvious Woody is holding up his 53 wins. Sadly he could’ve gotten close to 65 and COY if he really maximized his potential.
bigdave
May 6th, 2010
2:40 pm
CONGRATS JOE!!!!!!!!!
BusterBrown
May 6th, 2010
2:52 pm
I may be the only Hawks fan who believes the Hawks will beat the Magic easily in the series. The only way it happens though is that the Hawks win tonights game in Orlando. The Hawks cannot afford to go down 2-0 to the Orlando Magic. Orlando is too good a team to spot them a 2-0 lead in any series. The Hawks can win the series, but they MUST win tonight to WRESTLE AWAY THE HOME COURT ADVANTAGE FROM THE MAGIC. If the Hawks win the game tonight, its a sure bet they will advance to the next round and play the winner of the Cavs/Celtics series. A “W” tonight is an absolute MUST for there to be any more playoff success out of the Hawks.
Chuck Harrison
May 6th, 2010
2:52 pm
Fundamentals
It wasn’t very long ago that the Magic was a destination that players wanted to come to because of the weather and a big payday. Now, because we are doing something as far as winning.
Atlanta is a legit 50+ winner…you would give Cleveland or Boston a run for their money. You have a great city, good climate, a great core of YOUNG players. Today’s NBA head Coach is tomorrows TV Anylist. Players will want to come to Atlanta. Keep your head up high!
Yes, the Magic are not 43 points better than the Hawks. They did seem to self-implode. That’s just one game. It won’t happen again. You should note though that we did beat Boston & Cleveland last year on the way to the finals. (Where we didn’t do well.) This year I believe that we are a better TEAM than last year. If we take the series, it isn’t necessarily because Atlanta isn’t a great team.
If your management don’t freak out too much…you are only getting better next year!
BlueEdwards
May 6th, 2010
3:02 pm
If the Hawks dont advance you can blame the GM Rick Sund for them not advancing. Sund had a golden opportunity during last years offseason to strengthen our team by bringing in a couple of free agents in addition to Jamal Crawford. Jamal is great but has a tendency for his jump shot to suddenly go stale and he plays little or no defense at all. The offseason is when the GM can dramatically improve a ballclub by wheeling and dealing and bringing in the appropriate talent. We could have had the best team in the nba this year because there were players who were available that would have made us the best team in the NBA. Now we have to settle for the third best team in the conference instead. Thats not that far off from the orlandos and clevelands of the world, but we could have won 70 games this year. Oh well, the offseason is coming soon as soon as we get kicked out of the playoffs by the magic. Hopefully this time we wont make the same mistakes again and not get the dramatic changes we need to get. Mark Cuban spent $30 million dollars during the offseason to improve the Mavs just to watch them get stomped by San Antonio. Some owners waste money but some are cheap (like our owners) and refuse to spend the dollars it takes to be an elite team. Those lessons should be well learned so that history wont repeat itself during this offseason. Sund should get credit though for bringing in Jamal Crawford. Jamal cost us practically nothing and he makes us an elite team with a chance to win a title, something the Hawks have never had.
Sam from the Swats
May 6th, 2010
3:02 pm
All I hear is people griping about Joe and Josh and Teague getting playing time. The weakest link is Marvin..always has been, and always will be as long as he is on this team. If we had Joe and Salmons, we would be unstoppable, not Marvin and Salmons. Marvin is making $7.5 million, and Salmons is making $5.5 million. We could have had Salmons in our lineup with JJ, Josh, Horford, Bibby. Now, you’re not such a liability because you have somebody else who can create their own shot and plays decent defense. As long as that clown Marvin is on our team, we will always have these horrible performances. Every NBA team has a good SF except the Hawks. Now, nobody in the league wants that guy and we are stuck watching DUCKBUTT for 4 more years. UNBELIEVABLE!!
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
3:06 pm
“If we can just be competitive here for four quarters and make it a game, win or lose,” he said. “Make it a game. And then you go home and handle your business at home, which we’ve done. Anything can happen, but it can’t just be lopsided like it was [Tuesday] night.”
-Woody
WTF is this MORON talking about?. We LOST to the Bucks at HOME, you dumb@$$. So you don’t even WANT to win tonight, but it’d be nice? Can someone please send this quote to the dumb@$$ ASG or NBA and get the moron FIRED?
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
3:07 pm
HEY WOODSON,
TO WIN THE SERIES WE HAVE TO WIN ON THE ROAD U IDIOT
GOD DAMNIT
jeff
May 6th, 2010
3:07 pm
start Mo and set Marv
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
3:14 pm
THE STOCK MARKET SUCKS TODAY
FIRE WOODY
Reality
May 6th, 2010
3:26 pm
Are you people serious? The Hawks always had problems with the Magic. I know that the Magic don’t get the run like the Cavs and Lakers. The Magic is a very DEEP team. We have 4 guys that can come off the bench and run up 20 points. And if you guys want to run JJ out of town. I’ll take him in a trade with Vince Carter in a heart beat. He fit what the Magic does perfectly.
jeff
May 6th, 2010
3:28 pm
I haven’t seen the Magic run ISO. Are they planning on starting tonight?
Dawg Dominance
May 6th, 2010
3:30 pm
“FIRE BOBBY”
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
3:32 pm
Fundamentals . . . there is no way in hell this team could’ve won 65 games . . I don’t care if you brought back Red Aeurbach from the dead to coach this team. Why do you guys severely overrate our talent like that, in order to diss Woody? To believe that this was close to a 60 win team, is to believe that we have one of the top 10% teams in NBA history.
LOL . .come on now.
How is this team going to win close to 65 games, when we don’t have a superstar player, a great PG, or a good low post scorer . . or even a good bench outside of Crawford?
The ceiling on this team was 55 – 56 wins max. Because even with the games that we blew vs lesser teams, we pulled some games out of our butt to win at the end.
Grandad
May 6th, 2010
3:36 pm
Chuck Harrison: “Today’s NBA head Coach is tomorrows TV Anylist.”
* Wdsn TV analyst – now that’s funny!
Really, can you picture it? I can’t stop laughing!
Grandad
May 6th, 2010
3:38 pm
Chuck Harrison:
Sorry, I wasn’t makin’ fun of your remark, just the thought.
lewis
May 6th, 2010
3:43 pm
http://www.magicbasketball.net/2010/05/06/anatomy-of-efficiency/
MustangSalley
May 6th, 2010
3:45 pm
Fundamentals is right. This Hawks team could have easily been a 65 win team, but the folks who realize that are the ones who are watching the Hawks every chance they get. If you study the Hawks and if you watch the Hawks regularly you would know there were at least 13 games in which the Hawks had HUGE leads in where we blew the leads and LOST. If you add those 13 games right there to our win totals, you are sitting at 66 wins. Most fans dont have a clue that is what happened. There were also another 11 games where we had marginal leads going into the fourth quarter and lost those as well. The leads might not have been as substantial as the other 13, but those 11 games could have been won as well. All in all, there were 24 games where the hawks blew leads in, late in the games and lost, games that they should have won. If the Hawks had operated at 150% efficiency and won 100% of those games, all 24 of them, the Hawks record would have been 77-5, which would have made them the favorite to win the title. Forget about winning the title, this record would have been the best regular season record in NBA history. This reveals to me that Mike Woodsen is certainly on the right track, he still has some things his team has to clean up in order for them to be the dominant team that they are becoming. It wont be long now till the Hawks will the most feared and most complete team the association. It might happen next year.
jeff
May 6th, 2010
3:50 pm
I need what you are smoking.
Balltiyafall
May 6th, 2010
3:59 pm
If anything needs to happen, Mike Bibby needs to be traded. He is not that great of a shooter and takes alot of open looks without nailing the shot. I can think of benchers who would bring more soul to the three point line. ZaZa, has a piss poor attitude and should be traded as well. Josh Smith can not hold a team on his shoulders, you need to be surrounded by well rounded players to be a super team. Joe Johnson is good…when he is on fire, when he is “just a player” he lacks. Atlanta rushes the ball at almost 90% of the possessions, which leaves them with no good looks, a horrible shooting percentage as a team, and loads of turnovers. Crawford needs to have a starting position. They need to utilize him from the start of the game, rather then try to bring them back from slumps and non scoring runs. The bottom line here is Woodson is a good coach, he may not have that “Mike Brown” fire under him after loosing by 43 points, but he is a well rounded coach that has really done a lot for the hawks. So let’s not fire Woodson, just because the players are not listening to him. In all of his press talks, he says “We need to move the ball around more” “We need to stop rushing plays”, etc, etc. You can’t make players do anything, you can just coach them. This team needs to forget about the 43 point loss, and move on with a new vibe. They need to cover not only Dwight Howard, but the three point perimeter. Let’s face it, Orlando is probably one of the best if not the best, 3 point shooting team. You can’t leave a team like this open. You have to come with a different strategy then just double teaming Dwight, because he will find the open man, every time. If they continue to leave Orlando open they will get beat again and again.
O'Brien
May 6th, 2010
4:10 pm
I think this team had a chance to win 58 games, but I can’t see them winning 65.
Congrats to JJ. One of the top 15 players in the League. But yet some guys want to run him off, despite the fact that we wont have the salary cap space necessary to sign some comparable talent.
What we need is a PG to take away some of the offensive load and ball handling from JJ, while being able to guard the opposing PG (again, taking that responsibility from JJ). We also need a system that maximizes JJ’s talents.
To me, JJ is the smallest part of the problem. Regardless of who the coach is, we need JJ more than JJ needs us…
bigdave
May 6th, 2010
4:13 pm
“For the Magic, this is nothing new. The Hawks, on the other hand, dug themselves further into a hole by taking long two’s. ”
In the 2 runs (2nd and 3rd qrt.) that did us in:
“In the span of those two runs, Atlanta attempted six shots from 16-23 feet compared to one for Orlando. For the entire game, the Hawks attempted 26 shots from 16-23 feet compared to 11 for the Magic.”
cp
May 6th, 2010
4:19 pm
I said earlier this season that winning 50 games means absolutely nothing if you stink it up in the playoffs. Yet a lot of the Woody supporters harped on winning 50 games as if they give u trophies and awards for that…..Yea they won 53 games and look absolutely terrible in most of their games so far…
For some reason all Woodrow focuses on is the home games. Its as if this dude does not realize we play on the road too. The Hawks cant play all their games at home but Woodrow does not care. Its all about winning at home and if we win on the road thats cool. That’s terrible leadership from your head coach…
And I’m still baffled by him saying he will play Bibby on Nelson tonight. Nelson is playing great in the playoffs and Woodrows answer to stop him is to put the worst defender we have on him. It is what it is. I’m starting to check for what free agents we can get in here for the cheap next year and what guys in the draft might be available. I have no confidence in this head coach.
Reality
May 6th, 2010
4:24 pm
Like Cavs fans believe there season record can take them to the championship. But like I said, I would trade you Vince Carter for Joe Johnson in a heart beat.
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
4:34 pm
“For some reason all Woodrow focuses on is the home games. Its as if this dude does not realize we play on the road too. ”
LOL! I AGREE.
The guy said tonight is WIN or LOSE. he thinks we will win the series by winning our home games (which won’t happen).
Remember 2 years ago before game 5 (I think) in Boston, Woodson said “let’s go try win this one [on the road]”
LET’S TRY WIN IT?
THIS TEAM HAS NO SENSE OF URGENCY. THE PLAYERS ACT LIKE TUESDAY NIGHT WAS A FLUKE. “THE MAGIC AREN’T 43 POINTS BETTER THAN US.” THEN WHAT ARE THEY ? 25 POINTS BETTER?
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
4:42 pm
THE HAWKS WILL LOSE BY 35 TONIGHT IF WOODY IS COACHING
FIRE WOODY
MustangSalley
May 6th, 2010
5:22 pm
I disagree with ANYONE who says “you’ll never win in the later rounds with Al Horford as your center.” That is nonsense. The person who said that is stoned out on crack. Has that guy or gal seen Al Horford’s improvement this season. Al Horford is like a completely different player than he was last year. Al is so much more polished as a professional, he is confident, dominant and takes over game the same way LaBron and Kobe do late in ballgames. Al Horford is MUCH BETTER OFFENSIVELY than Dwight Howard ever will be. Al Horford is like a “mini” undeveloped WILT CHAMBERLAIN, but has enormous upside potential. By the end of next year Al will be as good as two guys: one who played NBA basketball and one who didnt: #1) Wilt Chamberlain and #2) the Incredible Hulk.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
5:43 pm
“This is about what their perspective teams are asking their star players to do. ”
In that case I misunderstood. I thought you were discussing how valuable each player is to their respective team, not how many different roles a player is expected to fill. Two completely different things. I would still include CP3 and Deron Williams on your list, and although Durant doesn’t usually check the best opposing scorer, he does so many other things for his team that I would probably include him too.
Gee
May 7th, 2010
1:32 pm
Avery Johnson or Bill Lambier would be great choices to get this team on track. We need a 10/12rbd. center who is a knock down defender and will put whoever on their azz. Noone fears the Hawks, you had a rookie pt guard that look like an all world player who sliced and diced Bibby, Had their center played we would not have made the 2nd round. We were outcoached by Skiles. Dump Marvin, go get Caron Butler and Cris Bosh then we can strap um up. Oh yea, Loose Woodson