Atlanta Hawks: Do They Still Believe?
ORLANDO–It says something about how badly the Hawks got thrashed in Game 1 that they already are taking questions about their state of mind.
Also telling: The Hawks, emboldened against their critics after rallying to beat Milwaukee, realize these already are relevant questions against Orlando.
It was just one game, but it was an embarrassment.
“Yeah, it is,” J.J. said at practice today. “But it happens. Put it behind us and move on.”
They’ll get that chance tomorrow in Game 2. Until then, there are those questions.
Do they believe they can beat the Magic in a playoff series when they hardly ever beat them anymore? Can they win at Amway Arena when they keep getting blasted there and aren’t a good road playoff team to begin with? Do they really trust that they have the people and the plan to pull this off?
“I think we can beat them,” J.J said. “We just have to be poised and take our time on both ends of the court.”
“You look at it as a fluke,” Jamal said.
But how can that be when they’ve lost by more than 30 points three of their last four times here? When the Magic has won 7 of their last 8 games against the Hawks? When the Hawks’ offense so often stalls and the defense couldn’t slow the Magic’s inside or outside game?
“If it was a 15-point win, we can kind of be like, ‘Wow, they just beat us,’” Jamal said. “But 40-something points? They are not 40-something points better than us.”
So a day after taking the largest L in the franchise’s Atlanta history, the Hawks went back to work. Before they could even begin to consider their considerable problems with tactics and planning, the Hawks tried to fend off any creeping thoughts about the Magic just being better, period.
The Hawks have to win at Amyway to win this series. Woody said he still thinks they can do both.
“Sure, I do,” Woody said. “Without a doubt I do. But they’ve got to believe, too.”
How does he convince them?
“If we can just be competitive here for four quarters and make it a game, win or lose,” he said. “Make it a game. And then you go home and handle your business at home, which we’ve done. Anything can happen but we can’t just be lopsided like [Game 1].
“And I’ve got to take responsibility for that as the coach. I don’t always put it on the players. As the coach, I’ve got to take full responsibility. I’ve got to get them over the hump for four quarters.”
The Hawks spent a lot of time looking at the first quarter from Game 1, trying to reinforce the idea that if they do follow the plan they can score on the Magic. In that period, the Hawks made 11 of 26 shots with five assists, two turnovers, 16 points in the paint and eight points in transition. They still took a lot of long jump shots [3 of 8] but moved the ball to get open looks and had eight points in transition and 16 in the paint.
And then the second quarter happened. Woody put it on the bench.
“[The Magic] didn’t do anything different,” Woody said. “They just substituted.”
The Hawks didn’t spend too much time looking at those three quarters after the first. Well, really, the 2 1/2 quarters when the Magic was still playing and the Hawks hadn’t yet officially surrendered.
Guess they figured it’s probably better for their collective psyche to look more at the good from the first period than all that bad that came later.
“It was good for us to look at the first quarter and see some of the positive things that we did do early,” Joe said. “And that the gameplan does work as long as you stick to it. In the second quarter, we got out of the game plan, started forcing a lot of things offensively. And defensively we just collapsed.”
Woody thought the Hawks did a pretty good job against Dwight Howard. The Hawks wanted to limit his dunks but he got four of his eight field goals that way.
Howard went baseline for two dunks, one past Zaza and another past Al. He caught a lob dunk when Bibby didn’t chase the ballhander on a pick-and-roll and forced Al to help off Dwight. Dwight got yet another dunk when Pietrus easily blew past Bibby and got in middle of the lane to bounce a pass to Dwight on the baseline.
Woody said Howard’s baseline and pick-and-roll dunks “should never happen.” The Hawks wanted to deny Howard the ball but Woody said all the foul calls held them back.
“They called it a little close,” he said. “There were a couple of times where I thought Jason didn’t get a chance to defend him before the whistle blew. That is going to happen. We’ve just got keep banging him.”
Woody said he probably will activate Randolph Morris, who was out sick for Game 1. But neither Morris nor any of the other centers can do anything about the Hawks’ problems guarding the Magic on the perimeter.
It might be a personnel issue. The Hawks’ weak perimeter defense is a major liability in this series and they don’t have the advantage inside like they did against Milwaukee. The Hawks have Bibby, J.J., Jamal, and Mo chasing VC, Jameer Nelson, Redick, J-Will, Pietrus and Ryan Anderson. For the Hawks there’s an imbalance of numbers and an abundance of bad matchups.
It didn’t help that the Hawks were back to those timid closeouts.
“A couple of times we were too lax for sure,” Jamal said. “We were giving their shooters good, clean, open looks. You have got to run them off the line a little bit. Make them think about putting it down. That can change a person’s [shooting] percentage for sure.”
The Hawks will try to be better at that and all the other things they didn’t do in Game 1. They press on in the face of serious doubts.
It’s true that the Hawks overcame dire straits against Milwaukee but nothing like this. There was always the feeling that if the Hawks played to their potential against Milwaukee they would win the series. Now there are questions about their ability to play to their potential against the Magic and, if they do, if that will be enough to win at Amway Arena.
Even after Game 1, the Hawks say they still believe it can be done.
“It’s a new day,” Jamal said.
MC
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
189 comments Add your comment
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
10:33 am
THE PLAYERS THINK THE GAME 2 NIGHTS AGO WAS A FLUKE. THEY ARE SHOWING NO SIGN OF URGENCY. THEY MUSTVE FORGOTTEN ORLANDO BEAT US BY 30 EVERY GAME THIS YEAR THEY WON AND LAST YEAR TOO
WHY IS THIS TEAM SUCH A JOKE?
FIRE WOODY
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
10:44 am
O’Brien . . . JJ should be held to a higher level. JJ knows he has to play better. Much is expected of JJ.
But nobody is saying much of ANYTHING about Crawford, who was our #2 scorer, and the guy that a lot of people were content being the replacement for JJ. At least MC pointed out in this blog about Crawford’s struggles, along with JJ. But Crawford was brought in SPECIFICALLY for this situation. To provide an additional creative scoring punch, to take some of the load off of JJ to do everything.
I mean damn . . . if Jamal was going to play like this in the playoffs, we would’ve been better off re-signing Flip Murray for another 3 years at 12 million. Crawford is taking almost no heat whatsoever for the situation this team has been in during the playoffs.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
10:59 am
Fan base talking to JJ:
“JJ . . you’re a ball-hog. Pass the ball. We need you to get 10 assists a game like Lebron . . even though we don’t want you thinking that you’re Lebron.”
“JJ . . Bibby can’t guard the other team’s PG, could you guard him please?”
“JJ . . we still need you to guard your man too. So could you guard the PG and the SG/SF at the same time, and shut them down please?
“JJ . . why aren’t you scoring more? We need you to score. But don’t do it out of ISO.”
“JJ . . why aren’t you speaking up in the huddle? We need you to be the team vocal team leader. Leading by example isn’t good enough. Scream at somebody.”
“JJ . . we need you to play PG, SG, SF, and a little PF. And if you would, could you play C too?”
“JJ . . Marvin won’t rebound, so could you do it for him please?”
******************
JJ’s Response: ( low key voice ) “ok”
Fundamentals
May 6th, 2010
11:00 am
I’m dreaming that we’ll actually come out with a sense of urgency and intensity to prove we are professionals.
Here’s a summary of the series:
We’re headed for another embarrassing 2nd round exit.
#1 – Our team has no real emotional leader. We just don’t care
#2 – Woodson has sealed his fate
#3 – Joe Johnson isn’t proving he’s worth max money
#4 – Folks are realizing Crawford had these consistency problems in GS and NY
We’ve sealed our own fate by not adequately preparing our bench, by not learning to play as professionals and by keeping a coach who just can’t man up, hold kids accountable and just say what everyone can see. We have no leader, we have no chemistry, we just don’t care!
Sad thing is I’ve dreamed we did all year, just to wake up to this nightmare.
Right now I feel most sorry for the Bucks. At least they would’ve tried.
I predict 4-1 series to the Magic. We’ll man up and win one, just to cloud the issue and divide the fans. Sad thing is this is a pretty good year to shoot for the title with Lebron injured and having fits with Boston.
DEPRESSION IS SETTING IN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FromUpNorth
May 6th, 2010
11:02 am
@Nacho: Bibby must have some blackmail material on Woody or something. There’s no other explanation for why he gets to start, even though the most casual Hawks fan knows that Bibby is terrible defensively. He’s a great jump shooter (when he’s “on”), but otherwise, he’s a liability on the court. Can’t think of any other competitive NBA teams that would start the guy at this stage in his career.
@Chuck Harrison: Most of us actually DO like the Hawks. We like them enough to realize that they are not playing up to their abilities. This is frustrating to us “true” fans. A casual observer wouldn’t give a rat’s butt. We do. We (most of us, anyway) know enough about the game to know this team has the skill to be great, but lacks leadership. And that has been the undercurrent of the Hawks organization for some years now. THAT is why we all sound like a bunch of whiners on this blog. We’re mad as heck. Trust me, I know how it feels to support a team – been a longtime fan of MANY throughout my life, good and bad times included. It’s heartbreaking when a team you care about doesn’t live up to their potential. Same can be said for children. Doesn’t mean you don’t still love them, but there comes a point when “tough love” has to take over.
Fundamentals
May 6th, 2010
11:04 am
Amen Northcyde. Joe can and has done it all, but he’s always sittin second fiddle waiting for someone else to take over his team.
It’s not in Joe to be the Max money, leader of this team.
He’s the best complimentary player anyone could ask for.
We look like the Bulls when Scottie Pippen thought he didn’t need Michael – yeah, that worked. Taught Scottie a real lesson….his team needed a real leader, not a wannabe!
Fundamentals
May 6th, 2010
11:06 am
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN FromUpNorth!
Best shot since I’ve been watching for a title run and we just don’t care.
That’s 27 years of watching every game CHUCK!
VenomSpitter
May 6th, 2010
11:12 am
FIRE WOODY
SIGN AND TRADE JOE
FromUpNorth
May 6th, 2010
11:14 am
Well dang, Fundamentals, I’d say with that kind of track record, you’re probably one of the most loyal Hawks fans ever, LOL.
Still holding out hope that the guys will play with some fire in their guts tonight….
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
11:17 am
Jeff, don’t blame JJ for Iso-Joe. Blame Woody.
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
11:24 am
everyone by now knows northcyde is a joke.
He gets his panties up in a bunch anytime someone criticizes Joe or Woody.
According to northclyde, JJ is playing great basketball now — his invisibility in the last few games sure indicates that. His saying “we need to look in the mirror….” is a perfect statement for him to make instead of “I NEED TO BECOME A LEADER.” It’s amazing how this guy never takes the sole responsibility for anything
He’s not a leader or a superstar and signing John Salmons this offseason will not make us much worse next year.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
11:42 am
Fundamentals . . . that’s part of the problem. People are wanting JJ to be the “superstar”, and fully ready to sacrifice him in order to find one. But there are none available.
The problem with Pippen after Jordan left wasn’t that he wasn’t a superstar. The problem was that when Pippen became the leader of the squad, there was no one there to fill Pippen’s old role. Pip averaged 22 ppg – 9 rebs – 6 assists the year after Jordan left. But there was no on on the squad who could come close to complimenting Pippen the way Pippen did Jordan.
And to be honest, that was Nique’s problem as well.
There are only 5 players in the league that are asked to do what all JJ does for their team
- Kobe
- Lebron
- Wade
- Brandon Roy
- and Joe Johnson
Tyreke Evans, if he keeps it up, will be added to this list as well. But that’s pretty much it.
cdog
May 6th, 2010
11:44 am
the hawks need to play strong on both ends tonight.we can’t rely on jump shots to win.we can’t be afraid to go after dwight howard inside.a win tonight and we have home court advantage coming home with 3 games at phillips where we play on a different level. dominte hawks!
Grandad
May 6th, 2010
11:46 am
nc:
It’s statements like the last one that cause me to poke fun @ you.
When I said:
“You’re all hat & no cattle’:
I was sayin’ you talk alot but w/o foundation.
Joe is somewhat (”only”) somewhat like Greg Maddox, great in reg. season, not so great in play-offs. [only way he's like Mad Dawg]
Why are you defending him when [even] Wdsn is sayin’ he’s in a slump.
I’ve been on record on this board as saying Joe is a complete player.
but even a complete player can play bad.
Why do you have to blame his teammates for his foibles.
O'Brien
May 6th, 2010
11:48 am
Northcyde,
With Flip instead of Crawford, I dont think the Hawks win 50 games. But Crawford’s playoff average this year is very similar to what Flip gave us last year (in the playoffs).
Crawford – 14.5 pts, 3 assts, 3 rebs
Flip – 12 pts, 3 assists, 3 rebs.
And when you compare the salary differences…Yeah, Crawford needs to step it up big time.
Grandad
May 6th, 2010
11:50 am
oldmike:
Absolutely wonderful post.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
May 6th, 2010
11:57 am
Heart is not something that can be coached – cause the coach has none. This team goes as the coach and star player goes.
Nate ArchiBALL
May 6th, 2010
11:59 am
@ Old Hawk Fan – Just needed something else to discuss until game two. Discussions on game one are getting stale. I’m ready for game two.
Fundamentals
May 6th, 2010
12:00 pm
Northcyde,
Pippen declared himself the leader, he said he could handle the load, but in the end he couldn’t. His team didn’t respect him, they didn’t play for him, they didn’t do the little things to make it happen.
Joe is an awesome player, but right now our kids need a Jordan, an Alonzo, a Hakeem, a real leader to step up, demand excellence and get our team to play to it’s potential.
They’re all in it for themselves, not for our team! They gave up Tuesday night. No other way to put it. To lose by more than 20 pts just shows you just didn’t care.
Responsibility falls on all of them, but most importantly on the one’s wearing the C’s and the head coach. Be accountable! You’ve got a couple million reasons why you should. Most important ones don’t involve money.
Michael Cunningham
May 6th, 2010
12:01 pm
@everyone clowning me for mistakes: i deserve it. blog went live before i intended. instead of taking it down after comments were posted i just left it up and continued to update.
@o’brien: “MC, Have you gotten a chance to ask JJ if he’s doing ok? He has had 4 sub-par games in a row, and that’s very unlike him. Is his thumb still bothering him? Is he tired?” he says “no excuses”
Justin
May 6th, 2010
12:04 pm
Anybody with ESPN Insider subscription checked out Hollinger’s article on the Hawks’ style not suited for playoffs? I just read the intro but I’m not a subscriber. Just curious what the main point of his argument is…
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
12:04 pm
LOL @ JeJe . . . the man who has nothing to offer to the blog but FIRE WOODY, is trying to say something about me? hahaha
I’ve repeatedly have said that JJ needs to play better . . a lot better. That isn’t even a question. I
Idiocy is believing that turning over the reigns to a Salmons – Crawford backcourt, will make the Hawks better. That’s what Chicago thought, when they let Ben Gordon walk, thinking Salmons would step up and be a decent sidekick to Derrick Rose. LOL . .they had to trade him, because he was underperforming in Chicago.
Michael Cunningham
May 6th, 2010
12:05 pm
@joe’s place: “Can you please explain how Josh Smith does not make the 1st team all defense???!! He was the ONLY player to record over 100 blocks and 100 steals and was the runner up for defensive player of the year!!!! How the £uck does Gerald or Kobe make it over Josh???? What a joke!!!”
i was surprised by that. all i can tell you is media votes for D player of the year and coaches vote for all-defensive.
jeff
May 6th, 2010
12:10 pm
Crawford- FG%-.352 APG- 2.6 PPG- 14.5
ISO Joe- FG%-.418 APG-5.4 PPG-19.5
Smoove- FG% .512 APG 2.9 PPG- 13.3
Big AL- FG%-.527 APG 1.5 PPG 14.1
Bibby- FG% .441 APG 2.9 PPG 9.9
Mo- FG% .405 APG 5.6 PPG14.6
Marvin-FG% .441 APG 1.0 PPG 9.4
Start Mo, sit Marvin
Blue
May 6th, 2010
12:11 pm
I don’t think it’s a matter of IF the Hawks win tonight. It’s a matter of HOW MANY POINTS will they lose by.
Blue
May 6th, 2010
12:16 pm
MC,
You’re on point about Josh making the second all-defensive team being a joke! Freaking Gerald Wallace over Smoove! What the hell!
LarryWilcox
May 6th, 2010
12:21 pm
NBA fans from all over the world will be SHOCKED at the result of tonights Hawks/Magic game. The Hawks will get revenge for the game 1 demolition of the Hawks by the Magic by putting a hurtin on the Magic themselves tonight when the Hawks beat them by at least THIRTY POINTS. I expect the hawks to win the game by a score something like 130-100. Im sticking by that prediction and I’d be shocked out of my mind if it didnt happen something like that.
PRESTONI
May 6th, 2010
12:26 pm
Enter your comments here
Why not have a Woody-Out instead of a White-Out for the next Home Game? I’m sure that there would be Many People willing to pitch in to make up these T-Shirts. The fact that I would even entertain the idea of Losing to the Bucks as a Positive just to be sure that Woodson is gone, shows just how bad this situation really is. Woodson is like the Fat Guy on the TV Series LOST–he has been on this Island for many years now and has yet to lose a Single Pound. Nothing ever changes with Woodson either–he just doesn’t get it.
rusty
May 6th, 2010
12:30 pm
hawks,use common sense all of the rest of the teams in the nba do pass & move until someone is open for an easy shot. i know woody doesnt understand this concept,joe might but he needs to control the ball. mb brings nothing to the offense.we been on this road for 5 years. we need to change this.
Justin
May 6th, 2010
12:36 pm
@Larry- The Hawks may need 2 full games to score 130. They just don’t know how to score against Orlando.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
12:36 pm
O’Brien
May 6th, 2010
11:48 am
Northcyde,
With Flip instead of Crawford, I dont think the Hawks win 50 games. But Crawford’s playoff average this year is very similar to what Flip gave us last year (in the playoffs).
Crawford – 14.5 pts, 3 assts, 3 rebs
Flip – 12 pts, 3 assists, 3 rebs.
And when you compare the salary differences…Yeah, Crawford needs to step it up big time.
***************
What would Marvin’s numbers look like without Crawford here? One of the reasons why he got the money last year, was that it finally looked like he was turning the corner as a player ( before he got hurt ). And one of the major reasons why his numbers were down, is due to Crawford taking a few shots from him,
I agree that we wouldn’t have won 53 games without Crawford’s contributions. He played great almost the entire year. All I’m saying is that we brought Crawford in here specifically for this situation.
And if he were going to revert back to the “old Jamal” come playoff time, we might as well have kept Flip here, signed him for the cheap, and have a whole lot more cap room to do something in the offseason to add to the team.
PLAYOFFS:
Crawford: 14.5 ppg – 2.9 rebs – 2.6 asst – 35% FG – 1 stl – 2 turn
Flip: 11.8 ppg – 2.7 rebs – 2.5 asst – 34% FG – 1 stl – 1.3 turn
SMH . . . we can’t have him playing like Flip.
Mystikal
May 6th, 2010
12:39 pm
The problem with ISO JOE is that it uses the entire shot clock, no one else touches the ball so everyone just stands there. It would be okay if it were just situational and we need a basket. That often becomes the offense, though. Also JJ gets too locked in sometimes. He will have a man with an open look, but he instead shoots a difficult shot. Despite adding Jamal Crawford, this is just not a great offensive team. Bibby can shoot (when he can get open), JJ can get his own shot (but often leaves everyone else standing around), Marvin is as inconsistent as they come, Josh Smith gets buckets off transition and rebounding(can’t shoot outside, has no real post moves, & can’t really put ball on the floor, but gets pass cause of his defense), and Al probably could be a good post player if he wasn’t always playing as an undersized center (but he’s a great passer and bball IQ). Jamal Crawford can nearly score from anywhere. He comes in with that second unit and has the green light at all times. He’s a better passer than he gets credit for, but no one else offensively inclined on that second unit.
All these things came together pretty well in the regular season for the most part. The playoffs is when everyone steps there game up and you have to be able to execute when teams take you out of what you’re used to. When the game gets ugly and none of the above works we have nothing to turn to. Woody has no back-up plan, no motivational words, no adjustments that HE sees. And we saw all that unfold ugly the other night.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
12:43 pm
LMAO @ Jeff . . . trying to boost up Mo Evans numbers. Why?
Mo is averaging 2.1 ppg and is shooting a whopping 31% FG . . . but you want to start him over Marvin?
That’s why I do what I do on this blog. You have some genuine folks on here who spit the facts, while others simply say stuff, simply because they don’t like a particular player.
REALITY CHECK
May 6th, 2010
12:46 pm
We keep dumping on our hawks and rightfully so because they just gave up. But let’s
point out the obvious:
1) Magic are playing for a championship, Hawks are trying to do better than they did last year
2) We do not match up with them like we do against Boston and Cleveland
3) With Dwight and all their shootes it gets lost that they play great defense
4) Hawks have to lose the homer mentality, road games count too
5) Orlando is just a better team
Mystikal
May 6th, 2010
12:52 pm
Woody has brought this team along way since he came here. He did help the team get better consistently every year. That being said, this is a business. And in this business what you do in the playoffs counts more. When the playoffs come around and he has to match wits with great coaches, it is over before it starts. He’s done a good job, but he’s taken this team as far as he can. This team and the fans need and deserve better.
northcyde
May 6th, 2010
12:58 pm
I don’t know Reality Check. People have been dumping on the Hawks ALL YEAR, even when we were winning at a 65% clip. I guess that’s the nature of all fan bases though.
LOL @ ESPN . . . saying that the Hawks have lost 21 straight Best of 7 series, when losing Game 1.
Well. . the great thing about this team this year, is that they’ve been reversing long losing trends all year. Maybe they’ll reverse this trend as well.
Mystikal
May 6th, 2010
1:01 pm
I have always supported the hawks from back in the Kevin Willis days. When Nique left I didn’t jump ship. All the times they regularly got embarassed I as there. When they passed over Chris Paul and even after they took Sheldon Williams, SHELDON FREAKING WILLIAMS, i’m still a hawks fan.
We get on them because we do care so much. Being a loyal fan doesn’t mean you can’t stay true to the game if you are a true basketball fan. When they do stupid things are are not trying we call them on it, plain and simple. It takes a toll watching your team crash and burn year after year, but in my heart of hearts I want to see the hawks do well!
JeJe
May 6th, 2010
1:02 pm
Well. . the great thing about this team this year, is that they’ve been reversing long losing trends all year. Maybe they’ll reverse this trend as well.
How do you figure that? The fact that we lose to them every time by about 30 before our scrubs cut it down to a “respectable” 18 point loss? Or the fact that Woody “has no idea what happened” on Tuesday night and said he has not figured the Magic out?
The Hawks are as good as a rusty Magic team or Orlando’s 2nd team. There’s no way we win more than 1 game in this series, if we do win 1
jeff
May 6th, 2010
1:03 pm
Clyde relook up your numbers.
jeff
May 6th, 2010
1:07 pm
My bad Clyde. I looked at Mo Willams of Cleveland for another blog I was locked in on.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
1:08 pm
“There are only 5 players in the league that are asked to do what all JJ does for their team
- Kobe
- Lebron
- Wade
- Brandon Roy
- and Joe Johnson”
Huh? Nash, Paul, Deron Williams, Tim Duncan, and Melo don’t do as much for their teams as Joe?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 6th, 2010
1:09 pm
“There are only 5 players in the league that are asked to do what all JJ does for their team
- Kobe
- Lebron
- Wade
- Brandon Roy
- and Joe Johnson”
Huh? Nash, Paul, Deron Williams, Tim Duncan, Durant, and Melo don’t do as much for their teams as Joe?
Mystikal
May 6th, 2010
1:12 pm
Northcyde, I agree that it would be great to keep Joe, but don’t know if he would stay here for what he’s actually worth. He is not a max player and maybe he will acknowledge that after these playoffs. But if someone else (Knicks) comes along and throws a bunch of money at him, I’d rather lose him then overpay and handicap the team for the next 5 yrs. Personally, I think we should go after Chris Bosh anyway.
jeff
May 6th, 2010
1:15 pm
And he is making a whopping $14,978,754 this year. Sad thing he is looking for more than that
Chuck Harrison
May 6th, 2010
1:15 pm
nolerick,
Thanks for the props. I agree that many fans on a team that has become a contender do become arrogant. That seems to be part of the human condition. Discouragement also seems to be part of that same condition.
FromUpNorth, & Fundamentals,
I know the pain of loving your team & being saddled with Grant Hill’s bad ankle. Not good times.
My main point is, you have some great coe players. If the management doesn’t panic, you are not too far away from being in that elite company. You guys are right there. We have been paying out the large contracts with little results for a long, long time. Atlanta is much further along than most of these bloggers are making it sound.
As a Magic fan, I am not wanting you to win any games. However, if you were playing anyone else in the East, I would be. This year likely isn’t the year for you to progress. (At least I hope not.) But…I look for our teams to be battling in the finals for a long time.
The best of luck, but not this year.
O'Brien
May 6th, 2010
1:20 pm
John Hollinger’s latest on ESPN: It looks he has been doing some research. Its a long read, so feel free to scroll.
“I wrote an article recently about playoff myths — things people think change in the playoffs, but in fact don’t.
However, there’s another piece to that puzzle. Perhaps there are things people don’t think change in the playoffs, but in fact do.
I may have accidentally stumbled upon one in observing my two “home” teams, Atlanta and Portland, compete in the playoffs over the past two seasons. Watching the Hawks in particular, nearly every commentator has been shocked by how little ball movement their offense generates and how many times they end up isolating Joe Johnson while everybody else stands around and watches.
This complaint might sound familiar to folks in the Northwest, because it’s not altogether different from what the Blazers do with Brandon Roy. Both teams’ fan bases constantly complain about the lack of originality and shameless predictably inherent in such an attack.
The similarities don’t end there. Both teams are coached by former players — Mike Woodson for Atlanta and Nate McMillan for Portland — with a no-nonsense, old-school mentality.
And both have been wildly successful with this system. In fact, if you look at the numbers, you wonder what everybody’s upset about. Both Atlanta and Portland are far better offensive teams than people realize — their slow pace, low turnover rate and monstrous offensive rebounding numbers mask their efficiency.
In the regular season, Atlanta played the league’s fourth-slowest pace and the Blazers played the slowest, so their points-per-game numbers aren’t reflective of how well they played at the offensive end. Neither are their shooting percentages: The Hawks were only 14th in true shooting percentage at 54.5 and the Blazers barely ahead of them at 54.7.
Yet if you look at the offensive efficiency standings, the two clubs had few peers. Atlanta, believe it or not, had the league’s third-best offense this season at 108.9 points per 100 possessions, while the Blazers were eighth despite being wracked by injuries. This was actually just more of the same — a season ago a healthier Portland team was second, while Atlanta (without the scoring of Jamal Crawford off the bench) was 10th.
It turns out the iso-heavy offense has some benefits. Though hard on the eyes, the “iso-Joe” and “iso-Brandon” attacks produce remarkably few turnovers. Since both Roy and Johnson are good ballhandlers and nothing technically precise was asked of the other players, Atlanta and Portland were first and second, respectively, in avoiding turnovers.
Additionally, perhaps because they knew when to time their runs to the board while Johnson and Roy created shots, both Atlanta and Portland landed in the top five in offensive rebound rate — each grabbed 28.4 percent of missed shots.
In other words, theirs is a volume strategy. The Hawks and Blazers might not take better shots than other teams, but they take a lot more of them. Over time, that gives them enough of an advantage to make them potent offensive squads overall.
So what’s the problem?
Apparently, there isn’t one … until Game 83. Remember when I was talking about things that change in the playoffs? One change is that these iso-heavy offenses apparently have a lot more trouble when opponents have time to game plan against them in a playoff series.
Take a look at the playoff results from these teams the past two seasons, and the conclusion is hard to ignore. If this happened in any one playoff series, we might be able to dismiss it as a short-term fluke. But the fact that it’s happened six times in six series tells us that maybe something about isolation-heavy offenses doesn’t function well in an environment in which opponents have several days to scout, game-plan and match up for this specific tactic.
We’ll start with Portland. The Blazers were the second-best offense in 2008-09 in the regular season, and met the fourth-best defense from Houston in the first round. Based on the opponent, we would have expected some drop-off from the Blazers, yes, but among the 16 playoff teams, they were only eighth in offensive efficiency.
The Blazers were as successful as before at avoiding turnovers, but they couldn’t make shots and couldn’t get the misses. In particular, the Rockets eliminated their second shots, taking the league’s top regular-season offensive rebounding team down to 11th among 16 playoff teams. Portland’s TS percentage also dropped from eighth among 30 teams to 12th out of 16.
In 2009-10, Portland faced a much weaker defensive team in Phoenix, but basically the same thing happened. While some of this can be pinned on Roy’s injury, the numerical changes were virtually identical to a year earlier — they were just as good at avoiding turnovers, but missed a lot more shots and didn’t rebound nearly as many of them.
Let’s move on to Atlanta. In 2008-09 the Hawks played 11 playoff games, a larger sample than the Blazers have to offer, and seven of them were against a fairly average Miami defense (the other four, however, were against a robust Cleveland D).
The same thing happened that befell the Blazers: Atlanta stopped making shots. The Hawks had the second-worst TS percentage of any playoff team, and finished the postseason 13th in offensive efficiency.
This year, we’re seeing the same movie. The Hawks have faced two very strong defenses, with Milwaukee ranking third in Defensive Efficiency and Orlando second. But while seven of their eight games were against the Bucks, Milwaukee was without perhaps its best defender in center Andrew Bogut.
Nonetheless, the results have been the same.
Atlanta, as the league’s third-best offense, should at least be able to battle these defenses to a draw. But even before Tuesday’s Game 1 implosion against Orlando, they were struggling. The Hawks can’t make shots, ranking just 14th out of 16 teams in postseason TS percentage. While they’ve still been able to generate second shots (they lead all teams in playoff Offensive Rebound Rate) and have been somewhat successful at avoiding turnovers, the net result put the Hawks 11th among the 16 playoff teams in postseason Offensive Efficiency.
So what is it? Perhaps the Hawks and Blazers have just had some bad games against some pretty good defenses. But between the two, we’ve built up a 31-game sample showing that something more nefarious might be at work.
Obviously, this has important implications for Atlanta’s Game 2 in Orlando on Thursday. Iso-Joe has had its moments; Game 4 of the 2008 Boston series, for instance, when Johnson single-handedly tore apart one of the best defensive teams in history. But in the aggregate, its failures have been far greater than its successes, and it’s notable that the most similar offensive team has faced similar troubles.
Is there something about iso-heavy offenses that makes them vulnerable in the playoffs? We can’t say it with certainty yet, but the case is building rapidly. The Hawks have three games left to show that Iso-Joe can be as effective in May as it is between November and April”.
Lacsho
May 6th, 2010
1:41 pm
Nice read O’Brien!!!!!
Fire Woody
Ramon
May 6th, 2010
1:47 pm
Seriously wondering why the Hawks have never tried a version of the triangle as their base offense? They have the perfect pieces for it. And it doesn’t require a top notch point guard, only a point guard who can knock down open shots.
drmaryb
May 6th, 2010
1:51 pm
Damn! HOF Defensive End/Tackle Lawrence Taylor “LT” arraigned in NY court today for 3rd Degree –
Rape Charges! Having Sex with 15 year old girl? ALLEGEDLY.
Wow! I thought he had stopped smoking crack. Hehe!
Fundamentals
May 6th, 2010
1:58 pm
Chuck
I see your point. I’ve preached all year. I know we have some great pieces, we just need to learn to maximize talent. We have no leader to encourage that from a coaching or player standpoint. We all know this.
Now it’s time to see what happens. The only thing injured for us is our pride and heart. Grant’s ankle was one of the most heartbreaking stories I’ve seen over the years. you knew the kid wanted to play, you knew they were ready to do great things, but injuries just killed the Magic. That was us last year in a sense.
This year is different. Everyone is healthy. Everyone should be ready. I wouldn’t say the Magic beat us Tuesday. We were in it till we decided to quit. We went away from solid play and solid D. We went from moving the ball and sharing the offense to standing around and watching ISO plays. We didn’t crash the glass on either end. Result = no competition for the Magic.
We could make this a series, but it’d take a real close look in the mirrow to find inside our team what we need before it’s too late.
I fear what the summer might bring. Everybody wants something different. I just pray we emerge with a solid TEAM who can mesh and play together.
Seems our chemistry is in question by alot of folks.