Atlanta Hawks: On Doubling Dwight
This doesn't do anything about those 3-point shooters.
Finally got to unleash the new toy to get a survey of how the Hawks fared this season defending Dwight Howard with Al as the primary defender, with and without help.
It’s a limited analysis because it only includes those times Howard posted against Horford and attempted a shot. That means it’s missing those plays when Howard posted up other Hawks defenders, his shot attempts on other play types, and also how he influenced the offense when he got the ball but didn’t shoot or even when he had an effect without touching the ball. (Hey, the new toy is dope, but I had to cut myself off at some point.)
Well, I decided to look at one element of Howard’s offensive influence when he doesn’t take a shot: the Magic’s 3-point attempts when the Hawks double-teamed him. So I booted up all 103 of the Magic’s 3-point attempts in four games against the Hawks and looked to see how they got them. Again, this is a limited analysis of Dwight’s influence when he doesn’t shoot because it doesn’t include the 2-pointers he helps create for teammates with passes or just his presence. The breakdown (holla if my math is jacked up):
Nov. 26 (93-76 Hawks loss)
10/31 3FG total
3/6 Dwight-created
7/25 otherJan. 9 (113-81 Hawks loss)
12/28 3FG total
2/3 Dwight-created
10/25 otherJan. 30 (104-86 Hawks loss)
7/23 3FG total
1/3 Dwight-created
6/20 otherMarch 24 (W 86-84)
6/21 3FG total
0/1 Dwight-created
6/20 otherTotal 3-pointers: 35/103
3-point attempts created by Dwight doubles: 6/13
3-point attempts created in other ways: 29/90
It’s that last line that got my attention. It was crazy to see how many different ways the Magic got open 3-pointers . They used ball screens, pin-down screens, hand-offs, drive-and-kicks, pick-and-pops, and simple (but fast) ball reversals. There’s no hesitation. The Magic are always looking for 3. They are ready to fire when they get space and it doesn’t seem to matter if they are cold or hot for the game. The Magic don’t even need to involve Dwight in all that action because they are so good at moving the ball. It’s not just the guards, either–forwards Rashard Lewis and Ryan Anderson get in on it, too. When Jameer Nelson came back to play in the last game against the Hawks he added yet another element with his quickness and savvy.
Before the Hawks even begin to think about defending Dwight, they have to deal with all that going on at the 3-point line. It takes great awareness to do it and, well, I don’t have to tell you that’s not always been a strong suit for the Hawks.
“It is sort of like ‘pick your poison’ as far as defending them,” Woody said. “We’ve tried all kinds of ways.”
The Magic got hot a few times against the Hawks. In the November victory they made 4 of their last 8 to stymie any Hawks comeback attempt. The Magic made five in a row during the Jan. 9 beatdown of the Hawks. Even thought their overall 3-point percentage was poor in the third game, the Magic had a key spurt when they made 4 of 5.
No wonder when Smoove was asked what stood out in his mind about the regular-season series, he said: “It seems like they make all their shots against us.”
Not quite–the Magic missed a handful of good looks in the final meeting. But I know what Smoove means. It’s got to be physically taxing chasing around all those shooters–I got tired just watching it. And then when you do all that work and the Magic is moving the ball and they get an open 3 and make it, it’s got to be hard on the psyche, too.
“We can’t get discouraged if they make some threes,” Woody said. “I’ve watched teams that play them, and they start bombing threes and then you get away from your original gameplan. Yeah, we are going to have to make adjustments on the fly. But I don’t want our guys to get discouraged because they make threes. We make threes [too]. It goes both ways.”
MC
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98 comments Add your comment
pluckthehawks
May 4th, 2010
11:38 am
All I can say is that the Bucks without Bogut and Redd must have been a really tough test for it to have gone 7.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 4th, 2010
11:46 am
True, but would you rather they attack him with Matt Barnes or Jameer Nelson? I’d rather take my chances with Barnes. Like you said, whoever Bibby guards will have a favorable matchup — might as well be their least productive offensive player.
red man
May 4th, 2010
11:47 am
We have to mix up defenses with 2-3 zone and a lot of trapping to let the shot clock go down which creates bad shots. This doubling or playing straight up is gonna get us killed. Dictate on defense dont let them dictate to us. It won’t happen but u got to play Teague.
kwooden1
May 4th, 2010
11:48 am
I think the keys are good post position defense by Horford. He’s got to beat Dwight to his sweet spots and not get discouraged when Dwight gets some offensive rebounds. The second key is to pressure the ball. We have to keep guys from making easy passes, everything pass needs to be contested. 3rd key is to keep Dwight in the pick and roll. Move Dwight away from the basket as much as possible.
GO HAWKS!!!
O'Brien
May 4th, 2010
11:52 am
It will be very important for Hawks to crash the boards too. In all 4 games this season, we lost the rebounding battle (-12,-10, -9, and -10).
I think hawks need to play through Josh early as well. In other words, don’t start off with our guards dominating the ball. Start with Josh, and let him pass out of the post if necessary.
Wabe
May 4th, 2010
11:54 am
Howard may not kill us on the offensive end, but his defensive prescence changes games. Our guys have a hard time getting points in the paint, and we resort to jumpshooting.
Everything we try to get on the offensive end of the floor is contested, from JJ’s floater in the lane to our bigs trying to establish anything inside. Just look at how many points we scored in our last meeting against Orlando. Sure, we won the game, but how many times in the span of a 7 game series do you expect to hold Orlando to under 90 points? Because that’s the kind of defensive effort it’ll take to have any chance in this series if we’re not scoring more.
In our 4 games vs. the Magic this season, we didn’t crack 90 points once. I know the name of the game is defense, but, how many games do you see the Hawks winning 86-84?
Wabe
May 4th, 2010
11:55 am
If Dwight averages 30 a game, you tip your hat to him and call it a series…
Don’t let the shooters get going…
It plays right into what they’re trying to do.
pluckthehawks
May 4th, 2010
11:58 am
pick your poison.
Big D
May 4th, 2010
12:01 pm
I say trap J- Nelson and get the ball out of his hands. Also go with Teague and Mario west to guard Nelson straight up at times. I do not think Bibby should play that much in this series because he is a liability on defense. Nelson would create to many open looks for the Magic. Dwight is going to have up and down games because of foul trouble. Nelson is the one that scares me.
pluckthehawks
May 4th, 2010
12:04 pm
Gortat the Polish Hammer will send ZsaZsa back to green acres….
pluckthehawks
May 4th, 2010
12:08 pm
Half the fun for us in Orlando is “who will be hot tonight”…Lewis and Vince are due…JJ and Jwill have taken over many games…Anderson can shot the light out…Barnes can do everything…Jameer leads and oh yes Pietrus will be there to dismantle….
jean
May 4th, 2010
12:11 pm
start joe at the 1,marvin at 2 josh at 3 a at 4 and zaza at 5…..bring jamal in as always and bring bibby in when ever howard is out can afford to play help defense
lewis
May 4th, 2010
12:25 pm
Matt Barnes is a steal at 1.6 mil a year.
Orlando has 10 players that could start for the Hawks.
Hawks might have 2 or three players that could start for the Magic.
feudfinder
May 4th, 2010
12:28 pm
The Deer were never given any chance against the Hawks. I do not see that change against Atlanta,but there is always a light at the end of the tunnel. For the Hawks to win this round against the Magic, it MUST be a 48 minute of relentless defense, MUST not rely on jump shooting, MUST establish a running game throughout the 48 minutes, MUST capitalize on fast break chances, each player MUST know and be aware of his partner’s location at all times, MUST get Howard in foul troubles, Do not always double team Howard because the Magic perimeter shooters are very dangerous and can turn it on at any time, close the lanes on Magic’s guards, always make your baskets count. I will rather live with Dwight Howard’s free throws than Magic’s perimeter threes.That will rack up the scores on you quickly. The Hawks were in all the four games played until the Magic launched their perimeter .shooting
lewis
May 4th, 2010
12:30 pm
6. Orlando Magic
$82,132,126
vs
22. Atlanta Hawks
$65,876,311
lewis
May 4th, 2010
12:37 pm
In terms of money buying you a spot in the playoffs…
1. Los Angeles Lakers $91,377,313 (round 2)
2. Dallas Mavericks $86,972,067 (surprising round 1 loss)
3. Boston Celtics $86,455,429 (round 2 tied 1-1)
4. New York Knicks $85,060,747 (no playoffs)
5. Cleveland Cavaliers $84,453,809 (round 2)
6. Orlando Magic $82,132,126 (round 2)
7. San Antonio Spurs $79,158,564 (round 2)
8. Denver Nuggets $74,992,698 (round 1 loss)
9. Phoenix Suns $74,927,102 (round 2)
10. Utah Jazz $74,860,447 (round 2)
Atlanta is the only team in the second round that doesn’t have a top 10 payroll. Boy, sure does “pay” to win.
Mcdawg
May 4th, 2010
12:52 pm
forget about D. Howard -stop R. Lewis
pluckthehawks
May 4th, 2010
12:57 pm
Orlando gets 2012 All Star game!
Show me state
May 4th, 2010
1:00 pm
I’ll be da first to say it…..i believe da hawks can steal game 1……….
pluckthehawks
May 4th, 2010
1:30 pm
da Magic said “not in our house”
osama
May 4th, 2010
1:39 pm
I hav to agree w/ a few people on here that in order for the Hawks to win this series we (meaning the coach) has to be willing to ’shoot all his bullets’ (meaning use his entire bench-especially for mor than a few token minutes (seconds?)).
Jason Collins is a big body that can make D-12 exert himself while the other 4 focus on defending the perimeter. It’s not even about fouling. Just play him as hard as you can for as long as u can. Then put ZaZa on him. Rotate the two and let Horford force Lewis to play down low when the Hawks hav the ball (which he (Lewis) is not good @). In this scenario, yes, Horford come of the bench, but, so what. We’re (the coaching staff) is not here to play favorites (I hope) we’re here to win (I DEFINITELY hope).
Counter their speed w/ your own. Let Jeff Teague run his legs off. The Magic are not a running team. Take them out of their comfort zone. Yes Jameer has speed in the open court but his pretty much the only one. Make sure u use ur after-burners too. Additionally, I like the idea some else stated on this blog of using JJ to guard Nelson. That’s a smart move. It would be even smarter to let ‘Rio have a crack @ him for mor that 23.8 seconds to end a quarter or half.
Coach Woodson has to turn the matchups into his/the teams favor in order to win this series. That means digging deeper into his team and trusting them in crucial situations. You can’t run ur starters ragged & not expect a 4th quarter collapse.
Offensively, as stated previously by another blogger, scrap the Iso-Joes, pass the ball around & cut to the basket. The isolations stagnate the offense, reduces the threat of the other 4 players & negates the ability to collect offensive rebounds as there are already 3-4 defenders around the basket on the collapse. The Hawks are @ their best in the half-court offense when they share/pass the ball & move/cut to the basket. That’s when good things happen (fouls, three-point plays, free throws).
theZaZaguy
May 4th, 2010
1:46 pm
I say mix in a 1-3-1 with Marvin at the bottom to run back and forth. It’ll at least cut off the corner 3. Maybe also run a mix of full court and half court press not necessarily to get the turnover, but put them on short clock. That way, they don’t have as much time to look for the open 3. This would mean that Teague, Mario, and Mo Evans would have to get some serious burn in order to keep everyone fresh.
The Truth
May 4th, 2010
1:51 pm
The game hype is on, finally we take center stage
northcyde
May 4th, 2010
1:52 pm
Everyone is talking about doubling Howard and their shotmaking, but no one is talking about our horrendous offensive deficiencies against Orlando.
- Post up game isn’t effective against the Magic, especially production grom Horford
- Spot-up shooter ( Bibby and Marvin ) have missed a ton of open shots
- Crawford has struggled mightily against Orlando
- JJ has been erratic with his shooting with ppg output way down
- Haven’t broken 90 points in any game this year vs the Magic
So while people are rightfully concerned about the defense, our offense vs Orlando ( overall ) has bee less than stellar. And they have used some impressive runs to break the game open.
Game 1: After being up 51 – 39 at halftime . . we promptly get outscored 54 – 25 in the 2nd half, and shoot 30% in the 3rd quarter and 22% in the 4th quarter
Game 2: The Magic go on two separate 11 – 0 runs in the 1st half to break the game open. The 2nd 11 – 0 run sparked a 37 – 16 2nd quarter that broke that game open.
Game 3: We survive 15 – 2 and 16 – 7 runs in the 1st half to stay within striking distance. But the Magic broke the game open with a 17 – 2 3rd quarter run.
Game 4: We withstand the beginning of the game 15 – 2 run by the Magic, by going on mini runs of our own, and preventing them from going on runs ( until that last 4th quarter surge got them back in the game )
The Truth
May 4th, 2010
2:13 pm
Apparently, this sport writer for Orlando Sentinel has set off a fire storm with his prediction, Magic in 7
I thought Boston had the most arrogant fans, but after reading these comments, I’m not so sure.
The Truth
May 4th, 2010
2:22 pm
You would think with 2 Allstars, 1 Sixth Man of the Year, a Defensive Player Runner-up and a Third Seed, we would earn at least some respect from the Mickey Mouse Fans. I quess we will have to prove it.
northcyde
May 4th, 2010
2:34 pm
Truth . . . other than one game, that team has manhandled us. Of course they don’t respect us. Just like we didn’t respect the Bucks after the Bucks lost Bogut.
Overall, they have a better team, better shooters, and the most dominant defensive player in basketball on their side. We haven’t accomplished anything to earn their respect. And I’d bet that our fan base wouldn’t respect them either, if the shoe was on the other foot.
Having said that, the only way the Hawks get respect, is to punch them in the mouth ( preferably in one of these games in Orlando ).
BrittishAnger
May 4th, 2010
2:54 pm
DON’T BE SATISFIED!
Grandad
May 4th, 2010
2:57 pm
“we are going to have to make adjustments on the fly.” ‘Wdsn’
I suppose this is much easier than crafting a plan.
*To craft a plan one would need keen foresight. ‘oh well’
“Pick your poison” ‘Wdsn’
What poison? [DH is not a threat to score: e g Kevin Durant]
*Wdsn = [reputed] Def. architect.
**Just play good old fashioned sound GATA Defense.
***Quit tryin’ to trick ‘em.
****You have stood by your beloved [switchin' Defensive'] system,
since forever…so, > belive in it.
*****The old axiom: K.I.S.S./”Keep it Simple Stupid”/applies here.
The Truth
May 4th, 2010
2:59 pm
northcyde .. When a MM fans says this:
“My brother must be smoking some good stuff. The Hawks is the dumbest team in the playoffs. Their basketball IQ is laughable”.
It’s not about X’s and O’s anymore, if you are a Hawk fan don’t you agree?
Section 303
May 4th, 2010
3:01 pm
The Truth, thanks for the link. You’re right…a lot of the Magic fans seem to totally disregard the Hawks. I think it is stupid to disregard any team.
northcyde, I agree. Hawks have to give Orlando a shot in one of these first two games. I think tonight is the best chance. Most teams come off long layoffs sluggish. Hawks could jump them. But, I do not think this series is such a mismatch that the Hawks have to hope Orlando is sluggish just to have a chance to win. The Hawks can beat these guys.
This series will be a battle. Is not going to end in 4 or 5 games. Orlando better buckle their f’ing chin straps. Hawks have been pointing towards another shot at a 2nd round series for a full year now. The moment is here. Time to go get it!
Section 303
May 4th, 2010
3:05 pm
northcyde, good break down of the 4 games with Orlando this season. In my mind, the series could easily be 2-2. The Hawks were rolling in the Thanksgiving game. They just came out in the 2nd half and could not make a shot. The problem was not getting shots, the d@mn things just would not go in. Was not like the Magic just took the entire offense away.
Anyways…this series is not a mismatch. It will be a battle. It’s going to be fun.
scooter
May 4th, 2010
3:13 pm
Let Howard score, he isn’t good at it and even if he pours in 30 its not as bad as having their true scorers do it. Carter is streaky, as is Lewis, so don’t let them get hot. This comes down to whether or not Bibby’s 3 pt shooting can outweigh his lack of D, which is doubtful. Woodson cannot be afraid to bench him (which he is) and put in better defenders. Jamal is crucial, also it would be clutch if Joe played with the composure and swagger that allowed him to annihilate the C’s two years ago at home. Breaks my heart, but magic in six barring a monster series from the Horford and Joe.
Bryce
May 4th, 2010
3:15 pm
@The Truth. I don’t think Boston has the most arrogant fans. They just have the most arrogant players.
Grandad
May 4th, 2010
3:17 pm
northcyde: [1:52 PM / post]
Good points all; [DH] is the reason, I think, that Joe & Jamal do not shoot well. He takes away their slashing/Joe’s[soft] backing in game.
If we had some plays [we used to run some good stuff out of the Flex]
where we could pin [DH] on one side & run cutters behind him, that
would negate his *intimidation factor.
*(as big a weapon as his shot-blocking)
**(causing misses due to lack of concentration)
welikebaseball2
May 4th, 2010
3:29 pm
Najeh Davenpoop: I agree about the need to keep hands in the Magic’s faces. What I said further into my post about needing to stay up on the shooters coincides with that assessment. Now, what I meant in saying we simply need them to miss shots is supported by your take on our rotation-heavy defense. Unless we can play more consistent (again, consistent) rotational/switching defense, we will indeed need them to simply miss some shots. I’m hoping the defense that showed up in games 6 & 7 shows up for the entirety of this series. Unfortunately, you never know with our Hawks…or their coach.
cp
May 4th, 2010
3:44 pm
lol@Woody talking about making adjustments on the fly. I hear you Woodrow. Honestly I just hope this series is competitive. The Magic have pretty much owned the Hawks this year and the win we did get is because Lewis forgot to block out. I hope the Hawks come out tonight with some energy and not all lethargic.
Grandad
May 4th, 2010
4:14 pm
The Truth:
I see your point – but I generally don’t think our players b-ball IQ
is low / I think our players have *poor fundamentals.
*poor is an inadequate discriptor.
*Our player ‘fudamentals’ range from:
Al/Zaza – Good
Joe/Jamal/Bibby – avg. on off., unsatisfactory on def.
Marv – inferior,careless
Mo – indifferent, jaded
Josh – heinous
These are the ones who typically play the most.
B-ball IQ & Fundamentals mirror ea. other quite a bit.
Josh (once labeled as, shall we say, below avg. b-ball IQ)
actually is becoming somewhat of a virtuoso in basketball.
When he’s reined in,[limits, placed upon] he is a joy to behold.
coo coo bird fan
May 4th, 2010
4:16 pm
To double team or not to double team? I say don’t and make sure the 3 point shooter dont get wide open looks, the all shoot like Mark Price when they play us soo lets not make it any easier than we have too. Plus, Howard on defense is the problem. If we cant go to the hole then we become a jump shooting team and we see how well that worked in games 3 and 4 against the Bucks. Pass the ball, take it right at Howard and try to foul him out, and for god sake guard the 3 pt. line like your life depended on it and we have a chance. More team O and D and less one on one AAU basketball. I believe in you guys, the question is do u believe in yourselves?
JeJe
May 4th, 2010
4:41 pm
It says on RealGM we could target Salmons if JJ leaves (I’d LOVE Salmons on this team — great player). But how could we get him? In a S&T? I thought we can’t go over the cap signing an outside player
Melvin
May 4th, 2010
4:44 pm
I wouldn’t mind having Salmons play alongside Joe not in place of Joe.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Bucks-Salmons-headed-to-Hawks-;_ylt=Aon_izYU3bEiK6lHfSPefJ28vLYF?urn=nba,238500
MannyT
May 4th, 2010
4:53 pm
Best chance of bringing in anyone will be with the MLE. The challenges with Salmons would likely be the number of years. If it is a long term deal, he might be interested. In the short term i.e. next season), he makes more to stay with Milwaukee.
The MLE will be available to everyone, so the trick is getting someone who wants to be here more than other places. Now if Joe leaves, there will be more than MLE money available, but not superstar money. More like Marvin money.
The real question is what skill set do you target for that one MLE bullet in the salary cap gun…
BWAF
HawksFanForlife3
May 4th, 2010
4:57 pm
anyone hear about the John Salmons to the hawks rumor?
ant banks
May 4th, 2010
5:06 pm
i don’t understand the anxiety about the magic. they bleed like we do!! its about heart and who got the biggest!!! gettin’ punked in the 1st half and down by double digits is not the way to go.
ant banks
May 4th, 2010
5:09 pm
if we do the little things right, we can win this series.
1.make your damn free throws
2.box out and crash the boards on BOTH ends of the court!! minimize their 2nd chance shots and maximize our own.
3.stay in their face, don’t give open looks.
4.fight thru screens. i have been railing on that damn switch ish all yr.
bigdave
May 4th, 2010
5:14 pm
nervous, like im bout to play…
Mystikal
May 4th, 2010
5:47 pm
A list of teams left in playoffs and their 3pt threats:
Lakers – Kobe, Dfish, Artest, Odom, S Brown, Farmer
Orlando – Lewis, Nelson, V Carter, Reddick, Anderson
Cleveland – Lebron, Mo, Jamison, D West, Gibson,
Boston – Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Wallace, Rondo?,
Spurs – Ginobli, Parker, Hill, Jefferson
Suns – Nash, Richardson, Barbosa, Frye,
Hawks – Johnson, Bibby, Crawford
im sure I forgot some ppl and no Garnett doesn’t shoot 3’s, but he does hit the long jumper and
Rondo has improved his outside shot. This list shows how the 3pt game and having good shooters has helped change the game. For the most part, probably 70% of players in the league can’t shoot, but we see where those who do are left standing.
Anyway for the hawks JJ and Bibby like to pick their spots when they bomb. Both are most effective in transition or off of good ball reversal. Neither are the type to just pull up off the dribble. Which brings us to Jamal Crawford, who probably is the only guy on the team who will jack it up @ will from anywhere (good and bad). Marvin Williams was a 3pt threatt last year, but has regressed I guess cause we miss his contributions. Being that hawks are most effective in an up and down game, it is easy for us to get behind when the game slows and other team is hitting the long ball. Not to mention other teams tend to get the the line more on average. All this is to say we need more or better shooters.
Mystikal
May 4th, 2010
6:08 pm
WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT US GOING AFTER CHRIS BOSH AND LETTIN JJ WALK??