Atlanta Hawks: Why They Need ‘Zo
(Note to my blog people: I wrote this back when I got on the beat in January but decided I didn’t have the cred to put it out then. I thought about freshening it up and posting it after Woody blew up at that shootaround in Milwaukee but decided to wait. Now after what happened to the Hawks in Game 5—beforehand the game I was taken aback at how nonchalant the players seemed in the locker room before such an important night—I decided now might be a good time to post this and see if it still holds up. It’s what I wrote back then except for editing a couple spots where I couldn’t think of the right word or hadn’t yet looked up some factual details at the time.)
I’ve been covering the Hawks for only two weeks. That’s not nearly enough time to form definitive opinions about the team, but readers have been asking me what I think the team needs to put it over the top. So with the caveat that I haven’t been around that long, I will draw on my experience covering the 2005-06 Heat and tell you what the Hawks need to be a real contender.
They need Alonzo Mourning.
Well, not the actual ‘Zo, who is comfortably retired after blowing out his knee at Philips Arena on Dec. 19, 2007. But the Hawks need someone like ‘Zo, who in ‘05-06 was a hardened veteran who had been through playoff battles and knew the kind of dedication and focus it took to win at a high level. He was a guy whose forceful personality commanded respect, and whose work ethic shamed players who weren’t 36 years old and fatigued by medication to rise to his level. And, just as importantly, ‘Zo still had something to offer on the floor that the Heat needed—even in the twilight of his career he was the most amazing shotblocker I ever saw in person, and that’s even after seeing Smoove do his thing.
The Hawks don’t have a ‘Zo. The Celtics do (Kevin Garnett). The Cavaliers don’t—LeBron is special but he’s not hardened yet—and couldn’t they have used a guy like that against the Magic in the 2009 East finals? The Magic doesn’t have a ‘Zo, either, and that’s what it means when you hear the complaints about Dwight Howard being too goofy (Stan Van Gundy had ‘Zo, so he knows). The Lakers, of course, have a ‘Zo type in Kobe, who is notorious for having little tolerance for BS from his teammates. The Spurs get that same effect from Gregg Popovich but that’s a unique situation because Tim Duncan is a superstar who accepts a coach riding him like that.
The Hawks don’t have that kind of locker room presence, and there are times when it shows. I’ve been to a few practices now where Woody walks the team through defensive situations. I’ve seen him tell guys what they need to do on pick-and-rolls, backdoor cuts, in transition, etc. And then the Hawks run through the play 10 seconds later and the guy who Woody just personally instructed messes up his assignment. “Where are you going?” is a common refrain from Woody in these situations. The atmosphere during these sessions tends to be loose, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s a long season and the Hawks seem to be a group of guys who need to have fun. But there comes a time to be serious and there doesn’t seem to be anyone in the Hawks’ locker room to put it down like that. It’s what you get from a team that relies on so many young players or older guys without big personalities and/or roles.
These would be the times where ‘Zo would tell guys who keep messing up to pay attention. If guys goofed off when they should be focused, ‘Zo would tell them to knock it off. Now the other Heat players gave ‘Zo a lot of grief about being so intense and serious—he could be over-the-top with it at times—and he usually took the clowning good-naturedly. But when he spoke up his teammates paid attention because no one worked harder than ‘Zo. He was hungry for a title and he wasn’t going to let some nonsense get in the way of that. His intensity and toughness rubbed off on his teammates who could use it.
Now Woody critics might say that a coach with a better pedigree would be able to get them to focus better. There could be something to that because the NBA is a players’ league, but it’s not that simple. For one, it’s a long season and players get tired of hearing it from the coach. For another, Pat Riley got a lot of respect from his players because he’d won titles, sure, but also because he was the team president and backed by the owner. Unhappy players knew if they crossed him they could be shipped off to an even more miserable situation. But even that didn’t prevent Shaq from once nearly coming to blows with Riley in practice. ‘Zo, by the way, stepped between them and broke it up, good thing because who else was going to do it?
And Riley had his faults. He would arbitrarily enforce inconsistent fitness standards on players whom he was mad at for whatever reason. He once inexplicably suspended James Posey, a true pro, because Posey’s body fat percentage was a fraction above some standard that Posey suggested Riley had made up. He got personal with Antoine Walker, calling him out in the media, and while Walker’s game could be frustrating he wasn’t a bad guy. Riley could make the atmosphere too heavy for players. And if you think Woody doesn’t give enough love to young players, get a load of Riley. You basically had to be Dwyane Wade-good to be a young guy and get run with Riley.
The Hawks would be a different team with someone like ‘Zo. Mike Bibby certainly has the pedigree to be that guy but his role has diminished and he may not have the personality for it. Joe Johnson is the team’s star but he seems to be a quiet type. Smoove, Al, and Marvin are too young still.
From a talent standpoint, the Hawks actually match up fairly well with that ’06 Heat team. Wade obviously is an elite players, and Shaq at that time still changed defensive gameplans by commanding automatic double teams in the post. Those kinds of talents aren’t common. But then again the Heat didn’t have a J.J. type, a long wing who can get his own shot and defend multiple positions. ‘Zo was the closest thing the Heat had to Smoove, but ‘Zo couldn’t play big minutes because of his health—it was common to see him standing at halfcourt sucking wind while his teammates ran the break.
On that Heat team Jason Williams still pushed the pace at times and got to the rim, but usually his job was to bring the ball up and hand it off to Wade to initiate the offense and make the open shots that Wade created—sounds like Bibby, right? J-Will didn’t offer much defensively, either. Physically Marvin is a Posey type, long, athletic and able to guard multiple positions (though Posey was a veteran who had a knack for making just the right play at exactly the time the Heat needed it). Jamal Crawford is even better in his shotmaking role off the bench than Gary Payton was for the Heat.
So, on paper at least, this Hawks team could match up decently in physical talent with that ’06 Heat team. Keep in mind, too, the Heat stumbled into April and didn’t really start clicking until the final couple weeks of the regular season (unless you were there, you wouldn’t believe that this also coincided with ‘Toine replacing Posey in the starting lineup). The Bulls pushed the Heat in the first round, with a big game from Shaq and some big shots from GP turning the tide. Then the Heat got a sweet second-round matchup with the Wizards, whose soft defense allowed Wade to do whatever he wanted in the lane. The Heat swept the Wizards with Shaq sidelined by injury. Wade carried the Heat in the East finals against Detroit. Wade did the same in the Finals vs. the Mavericks (and the Heat doesn’t’ win without ‘Zo, who was possessed by then), but it’s also true the Dirk Nowitzki choked in Game 3.
The point is it’s not easy to win a title. It takes the right matchups. It takes some luck. It takes some time. And, from my experience, it takes someone like ‘Zo. The Hawks just don’t have that guy right now.
MC
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196 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
April 29th, 2010
10:52 pm
“There’s nothing wrong with being known as a
defensive coach, but somewhere down the line as assistant coach or someone has to know some
offense. ”
True, but even bigger, if you are a defensive coach your defense should be good. The Hawks’ defense is like a football defense that leads the league in interceptions but gives up 400 yards per game. They are great at forcing big plays, mainly due to their athleticism, but when it comes down to just playing their man straight up and getting a hand in his face and forcing misses, they are average at best.
FIRE WOODY
darrell starks
April 29th, 2010
10:53 pm
The hawks have that player in joe smith but woody who is stubborn never for some odd reason never play him or his bench.
Some ask this Q if jenning was on the hawks would woody play him ? not only jenning wouldn’t be playing he would have never develop into the player he is today.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
Clyde
April 29th, 2010
10:56 pm
FIRE WOODY
Najeh Davenpoop
April 29th, 2010
10:56 pm
“He’s a much better passer than he is a scorer (especially when involving shooting jumpers and trying to take guys off the dribble), but he plays the opposite way”
I think more accurately, he’s a terrible scorer from more than 5 feet away from the hoop, which is where too much of his offense originates. Closer to the hoop, he is actually pretty decent; as long as he uses his left hand in the post, he is not bad at all. But I agree, he’s a much better passer. Unfortunately, when you play in an offense that involves no ball movement or off-the-ball movement, it’s hard to really exploit a guy’s passing ability. I’ve seen many occasions, even in this series, when Josh hits a guy with a pretty good pass who then proceeds to dribble around and take a contested jumper.
Grandad
April 29th, 2010
10:57 pm
Michael:
Excellent commentary.
apparently, a goodly amount of your readers missed the point.
It’s not the physical stature necessarily of ‘Zo’.
It’s his persona and more importanly his leadership.
By the way, anyone who criticizes and says who’s out there or hoow do we get a ‘Zo’. that’s the dilemma.
Two players readily come to mind:
*KG [MC - mentioned him already] & the other, *chauncey Billups fit,
what I think MC was trying to convey.
If they were easy to find then everyboby would have one.
Once again, great perspective Michael!
Blast
April 29th, 2010
11:01 pm
Blast
Wow! Atlanta Hawks cannot top this. Lose to the Bucks at home in a crucial game 5. I kind of saw it coming halfway to the 4th, when Bucks were gunning and Hawks were choking. It did not come as a surprise to me. Hawks have been blowing 4th qrt leads and losing games to inferior teams all year long. Last night came to bite them in the butt. They deserved to lose.
1st blame goes to Woodson. He did what he’s done all year. Make no adjustments and continue switching, which works with some teams but does not work with the Bucks.
Then he kept Marvin out too long.
Joe screwed up. So did Jamal. It was a shame only two bench players were there when Jamal got his award, but Jamal has sucked in the playoffs, man, except for game 4, where he had a little impact, but Hawks still lost. Is Jamal sucking b/c it’s his first playoff games or b/c he’s not feeling any love from his teammates?
I used to give Woodson the benefit of the doubt, but I think game 5 kind of exposed him for what he is. A coach with limited, unimaginative offensive philosophy. If Hawks can keep Joe without maxing out, fine, but that has to happen only if Joe adopts a more better offensive scheme than what he has now. I see Joe open early in the clock, but he won’t take that shot, preferring to pound and pound the ball until he loses it, or take a bad shot. Meanwhile, Bucks are pulling up, sharing the ball, and taking the first shot they get!
Joe might have been the man years ago, but if he is playing selfish, freezing out Jamal, playing like he does not want the franchise to succeed, then get rid of his ass.
I don’t see the Hawks winning tomorrow. Their habit is too ingrained to salvage in 48 hours. Hope they can pull it off, but I doubt it really seriously.
Sigh. Waiting for next year with no Joe or Woody.
I think Hawks can actually be a better team without those two cats.
Grandad
April 29th, 2010
11:02 pm
[From the last blog]
Bird Dawg – You are too kind, but thanks!
JChikara
April 29th, 2010
11:03 pm
MC, I see your point, and it’s true that playoff teams need to have a nastiness to them (not dirty) that will make teams think twice before going in the paint.
However, one person alone won’t change that. First and foremost it takes a coach who can instill confidence in his team. It takes a coach who is not afraid to hurt his players feelings and make any adjustments necessary to have favorable matchups against weaker competition.
Say what you will, but the Smith-Williams forward combo is as soft as it gets. They don’t play smart basketball, and after so many years of relying on athleticism you need players who possess a basketball IQ to make the little plays in games such as last night.
This why I hope Atlanta loses tomorrow night and gets eliminated. It’s the only way for management to wake up and realize that:
1) Mike Woodson is not the coach to take this team to a championship. His preference on isolation offenses plays right into his opponents’ gameplan. His refusal to make adjustments keeps Atlanta’s offense stagnant in crunch time. After 5 years the Hawks are still unable to play team basketball, and that is a direct reflection of coaching. Dwayne Casey or Jeff Van Gundy will be great replacements.
2) Joe Johnson and Josh Smith are great second-and-third bananas, but will not win you a championship as your leaders. If they cannot bring in a superstar frontline player, resign Johnson in free agency and trade Josh Smith and the rights to Josh Childress along with the No. 1 pick to Phoenix for Amare Stoudamire, who would dominate in the East.
3) Whatever happens tomorrow night, you must rid yourself of Josh Smith. Sure he may be great for a highlight reel, but you don’t win titles making Sportcenter Top 10 plays, you win it with making clutch plays in crunch time. Getting rid of him will enable GM Rick Sund to build this team into a more typical NBA lineup.
4) I think they already have their Zo in Al Horford, but he is playing undersized at the 5. Sign Brendan Haywood as a free agent and have Horford play the PF and keep JJ. It will give Atlanta and inside-outside offense that will help take the pressure of JJ.
darrell starks
April 29th, 2010
11:04 pm
If the hawks are going 2 win game 6 mario west will have 2 play hevi min against jenning, stick on him like black on black eye peas with no switch.
And the same with joe on salmons stick 2 him like glue.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
Clyde
April 29th, 2010
11:08 pm
WE GOT ALL THE PLAYERS WE NEED TO BEAT THE BUCKS. WOODY JUST WON’T PLAY ALL OF THEM.
FIRE WOODY
Clyde
April 29th, 2010
11:10 pm
DARRELL MARIO WILL BE LUCKY TO SEE 30 SECONDS OF PLAYING TIME WITH WOODY COACHING.
FIRE WOODY
Grandad
April 29th, 2010
11:10 pm
[repost from last blog] (All that typin’/didn’t realize new blog was up)
Grandad
April 29th, 2010
8:43 pm
Alot to get to, so here goes:
drmaryb – It will pass my dear. Unfortunately it is going to pass after we lose our next game & the Wdsn era ends. (I’ll return to you in a moment, as I have to address a few things)
Bubba Wheeler – Even if the Hawks win the next two games, ALL WILL NOT
BE FORGOTTEN ! I apologize for raising my voice.
darrell starks – I hate to disagree with you, as you and I see
eye to eye on many issues, but we must keep Joe.
*I’ll explain in a moment.
Sautee – You addressed Najeh’s statement:
“You can place blame on the coach . . . fine. That’s cool. But the coach does NOT have an X-Box controller, making the players execute the play or play hard, or do simple things like box out for a rebound. Paying attention to detail.”
And I agree with everything you said, but Najeh also said:
“If the coach doesn’t pay attention to detail, the players won’t pay attention to detail.”
It was Najeh’s last statement that I would like to enhance:
Having coached for over [30] yrs. & contrary to ‘TS’ assertion
that my career was spent in *Sat. morning youth leagues.
If you don’t stress the little things [detail/Najeh] the players will develop bad habits.
I’ve watched numerous video of a Wdsn practice & it absolutely drives me crazy as there is no [none,nada,zilch] correction for sloppy play.
I’ll cite a few examples: laziness running drills, allowed to travel when handling ball, non-fundamental footwork, “LACK OF CONCENTRATION”,
improper shooting techniques, and I could go on.
Have you ever heard the axiom:
“You play like you practice”
If you noticed above, quotes + all caps; “L O C”.
How many times have we heard that one after a game?
Najeh & Sautee / both respected & both dead on target!
About Joe:
I was very disappointed to hear what Sekou had to say this AM.
[concerning Joe & Bibby] / It’s no wonder he can’t lead.
It’s also enlightening to think about Marv.
We all have wondered about Marv regressing, now perhaps we know why.
Joe and Bibby may have unintentionally pulled a “Kucoc” on Marv.
Remember how Jordan & Pippin beat down Tony Kukoc both
mentally & emotionally. I don’t think they did it on purpose as did
Jordan & Pip but something has happened to Marv and after Sekou’s statement it makes me think. [Marv & Childress were very close]
We can’t lose Joe:
He is a complete player.
A ‘real’ profesional basketball coach with a real philosophy & system might just set him over the top. Not to mention one who understands the psychology of dealing with players and developing a real team concept.
drmaryb – I said I would get back to you…I hope as you read through
“War & Peace” (above) [if you didn't get bored and quit reading]
you found a few tidbits to make you feel better and I sure hope
my dissertation didn’t make you feel worse.
The convention of circumstances and events leading toward new leadership for our Hawks, may just be better news than advancing one series only to lose to a superior team. Everyone keeps saying we are superior to the Bucks, well I’m not so certain. Being an advocate of Team play above all else; it appears to me, they actually are the superior ‘TEAM’.
beone
April 29th, 2010
11:12 pm
Hey Michael, Duh. You got anything new to say?
darrell starks
April 29th, 2010
11:15 pm
Defense box out rebound and push the ball up court, mario will play a significant role in guarding jenning on the perimeter and making this happen.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
April 29th, 2010
11:17 pm
CLYDE YOU MY BOY BUT IT’S DO OR DIE WITH WOODY HE MUST PLAY MARIO OR NO MORE ATL FOR WOODY.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
northcyde
April 29th, 2010
11:20 pm
It’s like I was telling some of ya’ll in the last blog. A lot of you keep screaming “Woody . . Woody . . Woody”, when you MIGHT want to be looking at some of these players, and the mindset that they bring to the game. It’s a combination of problems with this team . . not just one coach or one player.
I’d LOVE to know who was the player that MC was talking about in practice. But I’m sure he’ll never tell that, seeing that it may compromise his position as a beat writer for the team. But if Woody is trying to teach the team something, and the players aren’t listening . . ( shrugging shoulders ).
As for the Zo-type of player . . I think that’s why Sekou mentioned how the Hawks miss a guy like Anthony Johnson. Now granted, AJ was a worse player than Bibby by the time he left here, but he was the type of personality that would challenge the young Hawks when they got out of line.
You guys remember the time in which AJ yelled at Smoove . . while on the court during game play . . trying to get him in the right position, because Smoove wanted the ball but AJ wouldn’t pass it to him?
That’s what Sekou and MC are talking about. That “leader type” of dude that will keep the team in line.
You know who a “Zo-type” of player was/is? Too bad he melted down last year.
But ALLEN IVERSON . . with all of his flaws and personal demons . . would’ve been the type of leader that this team could’ve desperately used, even if his talent wasn’t there anymore. Say what you want about AI, but the dude was a leader and he hated to lose.
Sean "Clyde Stinks" Williams
April 29th, 2010
11:21 pm
If Joe Johnson, for a bazillion dollars a year, isn’t that ‘Zo type of leader, let him walk, start Crawford and find a veteran that can show these screwballs how to handle their business in the Playoffs. Is Fisher really available? Do they have the cap room?
If the Hawks lose this series, is there any chance Woodson keeps his job?
.
April 29th, 2010
11:29 pm
Fire Woody………….
Najeh Davenpoop
April 29th, 2010
11:32 pm
I don’t know if anyone remembers how sorry Goran Dragic was when he first came into the league (hint: he made Royal Ivey look like Magic Johnson), but if you watch Dragic now and see how far he has come, it is just all the more reason to be p-ssed at Woody for his handling of Teague… and for that matter Acie Law.
FIRE WOODY
BirdDawg
April 29th, 2010
11:34 pm
The players have to shoulder some of the blame for this teams’ issues, but truth be told, most of the problems could be rectified by getting rid of Woodson. Attitude is a reflection of leadership. You don’t often see bad attitudes from a successful team with a coach that has it all figured out. Woodson apparently has nothing figured out because these guys are still making the same mistakes over and over again. Why would a player listen to a coach who is just going to tell them the same crap that didn’t work previously followed by “play harder”. The offense looks like something you would see at pickup game at Burdett gym and the switching defense gets blistered. Woodson is lucky the Hawks have all these athletic players because that’s the only thing keeping this defense from giving up 130 points a night. Any wonder no one else in the league has copied it? That’s because everyone else is smart enough to realize that power forward and centers can’t defend point guards and shooting guards on the perimeter. Not Woody.
BirdDawg
April 29th, 2010
11:36 pm
Najeh,
We have our own reason to pissed at Woody…Boris Diaw.
FIRE WOODY
BirdDawg
April 29th, 2010
11:44 pm
Looking for a silver lining, if every coach in the league adopted Woody’s philosophies on playing and developing rookies, there would be less one and done players making the college game much more exciting. Maybe he’s trying to start a movement. Yet and still..
FIRE WOODY
Blast
April 29th, 2010
11:46 pm
I said it so many times Hawks lost this season. Was Joe trying to throw the game? Joe is a vet. Why has he been playing like a rookie all year long? Passing up open shots, driving the ball to the defence teeth after pounding it for ever, before taking a multi tough shot, not passing out on the double… I could go on and on!
Now, while I know Joe was not the only culprit in game 5, Jamal comes a next second, followed by Bibby, then Josh Smith. Josh should not say crap about the opposing team’s city if he can’t back it up.
Need I say it????
Fire Woody!!!!!!!
Clyde
April 29th, 2010
11:54 pm
Why they censor my last post? Woody must have called the AJC and told on us.
FIRE WOODY
Bailey
April 29th, 2010
11:54 pm
I’ve noticed quite a few people stating that they would like the Hawks to lose simply so that we can get rid of Coach Woodson. I’m not commenting on whether we should or should not re-sign Woody, however, I don’t think it would be fair to the players for them to have to throw their season away just to get rid of a questionable head coach. Keep in mind that the Hawks could win this series, and the events that transpired to cause it to go seven games will still be remembered as a key argument against resigning Woody. So, in the end, you don’t have to root for the Hawks to lose just to get rid of Woodson. The players are good enough that they may be able to win the series even with terrible coaching, but the spectators can clearly see who is the root of the problems, if that is the case.
Scott
April 29th, 2010
11:59 pm
I think a new coach is a given at this point, but I also am of the belief that j.j. Is outta here after the season. We need dwade or bosh, but it doesn’t look if our cap space will allow it. Guess that leaves us with another rebuilding project. Frustrated with the status quo, but I still love my hawks.
Grandad
April 30th, 2010
12:02 am
northcyde:
Two things:
1. You really can’t figure out who that player was.
2. If you think Al Iverson is the kind of player MC was talking about, then you completely missed the point:
Iverson: “If I can’t practice, I can’t practice. It is as simple as that. It ain’t about that at all. It’s easy to sum it up if you’re just talking about practice. We’re sitting here, and I’m supposed to be the franchise player, and we’re talking about practice. I mean listen, we’re sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we’re talking about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game last it’s my last but we’re talking about practice man. How silly is that?
Now I know that I’m supposed to lead by example and all that but I’m not shoving that aside like it don’t mean anything. I know it’s important, I honestly do but we’re talking about practice. We’re talking about practice man. (laughter from the media crowd) We’re talking about practice. We’re talking about practice. We’re not talking about the game. We’re talking about practice. When you come to the arena, and you see me play, you’ve seen me play right, you’ve seen me give everything I’ve got, but we’re talking about practice right now.
Iverson: “Hey I hear you, it’s funny to me to, hey it’s strange to me too but we’re talking about practice man, we’re not even talking about the game, when it actually matters, we’re talking about practice.”
*Iverson: “How in the hell can I make my teammates better by practicing?
Jeff D.
April 30th, 2010
12:04 am
Two FA’s who have made news this year for not putting up w/ BS on the floor are Matt Barnes and Quentin Richardson. I’d pass on Fisher, Stackhouse and especially Ben Wallace. He has completely lost his swagger, skills and desire.
Jerome
April 30th, 2010
12:08 am
One thing that bothers me about this Hawks team is that I don’t see the right mindset amongst most of the players. I don’t see that killer instinct, leadership, and hard-nosed, lets-get-it-done approach from the majority of the players. There’s only one guy on the team whom has shown true leadership qualities, maturity, a dedicated work ethic, and strong will to win, and that player is Al Horford. Horford brings that championship pedigree from his days at the University of Florida. He knows how to stay composed under pressure and ever since he’s entered the league he’s showed signs of strong character and leadership. I don’t know if anyone remembers this from the regular seasons, but I recall several occasions in which the Hawks began to fall into trouble down the stretch and Al would huddle them together and try to get everyone composed and focused. Sadly, that only seemed to work temporarily, before the guys would fall out of sorts again.
I would never question Al’s motivation, his approach to the game, or his willingness to win. This guy leaves it all out on the floor almost every night. There’s absolutely no quit in him. The problem is that he one of the youngest guys on the team, and regardless of whether he was one to yell and scream at the team for BS like what happened in game 3, I don’t think the guys would listen, and that is a shame. It’s a shame that the third year player on the team is probably the most mature and focused player on the team, and the guy most qualified to be leader, when you have 10+ year vets like Bibby, and stars like Johnson, who don’t seem to even feel the need to take a stand in the locker room.
sleepy
April 30th, 2010
12:10 am
Its too late to be talking about who to add because youve already paid them . Josh is not gonna listen to anyone and Marvins already gotten paid too.
Zo is the guy you bring in before they get paid the best we could do is start jettisoning folks and trying to salvage AL.
Dale
April 30th, 2010
12:10 am
It’s very depressing that so many people have already counted the Hawks out of the this series and the players and the conversation now is already turning to the free agency and how we can fix the team, when the current series is not even over again. Keep in mind that patience is a valuable virtue.
AG
April 30th, 2010
12:25 am
Anybody watch Dallas vs. SA? I am not a big Dirk fan, buy he poured his heart out. Then, so little used point guard named Beaubois rallied the team with his quickness and taking TP to the hole. He looked a lot like Jennings because of his speed. Did not have much of a jump shot though. Only averaged about 12 min a game, but he looked damn good!!! He reminded me of our rookie point guard the last game of the year………….
Eric C.
April 30th, 2010
12:41 am
MC…great article. Aside from CMW, I’ve always felt the Hawks players lacked some leadership.
TooManyLooseEnds
April 30th, 2010
12:42 am
Coach is riding on thin ice, Top 2 players headed to FA and a Ownership group that has lost their fuggin mind. “We will want to see how much we improve before we resign our coach or top 2 FA”. Team has 13 players, the 26th rated payroll in the league, Finished 3rd in the conf and just won 50 plus games. Talk about blood from a Turnip. This is going to turn out worse than Lenny trading Nique.
JChikara
April 30th, 2010
1:00 am
Horford is the heart of this team, and if someone like Woodson can’t realize that, then he needs to go.
Jerome is right, it’s rare that Atlanta drafts and develops a blue chipper like Horford, and if they want him to stick around beyond the next couple of years, they need to build around him.
Sign another center like Haywood so Horford can be moved to his rightful PF spot. Trade Smith, he is not the kind of guy a team needs to win championships. Also, do whatever it takes to keep JJ and turn this team into a real NBA lineup capable of handling the big boys of the East.
northcyde
April 30th, 2010
1:11 am
LOL @ Blast.
As big of a JJ fan as I am, that EXACT SAME THOUGHT crossed my mind. I’ve NEVER seen JJ play like that. NEVER.
- 3 fouls in the 4th quarter
- 3 turnovers
- took 2 shots in the 4th . . and didn’t take a shot after he made that lay-up, until he fouled out
So what if he DID throw that game? Or here’s a conspiracy theory . . what if JJ has orders from OWNERSHIP to throw that game?
So let’s pick a conspiracy theory:
a) – After being taking out of a game for missing that early 4th quarter jumper, and his teammates moaning that he’s not passing . . JJ decides that he’s going to “see if his team can win without him scoring” . . ala Kobe. But as Milwaukee tossed up brick after brick, JJ says to himself . . “I guess I need to foul out and see if they can survive without me”.
********
b) – After Tuesday’s shootaround, ownership calls JJ into their office. They explain to JJ how he’s playing great basketball, and that he’ll get a MAX contract next season . . under ONE CONDITION . . that he must throw Game 5. A perplexed JJ asks why, seeing that they still have the home court.
ASG: “We need to get Woody out of here . . NOW!”
JJ: “But we can win this . . and we can take Orlando in the next round.”
ASG: “That’s the point. If we beat Orlando, that puts us in the EC Finals. And Woody would become the first coach in Atlanta Hawk history to achieve that. AND WE DON’T WANT THAT!! JJ . . we have a 6yr – 105 mill deal on the table for you RIGHT NOW. All we ask, is that you tank this game and lose Game 6. We finally have te entire fan base on the FIRE WOODY bandwagon. This is the perfect time to see thr Woody era end.”
*********
c) – After getting treatment for his toe 3 weeks ago, Jamal Crawford is called into the ASG offices.
ASG: “Jamal, you’ve been great for us. Thanks for a great season. But we need you to do something for us.”
JAMAL: “Anything you want boss”
ASG: “We need you to play really, really, really bad in the playoffs.”
JAMAL: “What? . . . Hell no! I’ve waited my whole life to play in the playoffs. No way am I blowing this opportunity to become a playoff legend.”
ASG: “Jamal . . If you and JJ play well, we’ll be forced to re-sign him for big money. And we need Woody gone too. You make this sacrifice for us, and not only do you become THE MAN . . we’ll also offer you a 3yr – 36 mill extension. But we need you to look like a scrub . . Shoot like 30%”
JAMAL: “But . . ”
ASG: “But nothing Jamal. We saved you from that hellhole in Oakland. We helped you win that 6th man of the year award. YOU OWE US!!”
******
Pick your conspiracy theory.
MsDee
April 30th, 2010
1:19 am
Yeah, the Hawks aren’t out of the series yet, but what good is it to advance just to get swept to the Magic?? The Hawks aren’t in no position to win the finals cause they dont have any true offensive plays, no true leadership (AL the closest to it but who would listen?), no ball movement, and no bench scorers except for Crawford who has the jidders for the playoffs..we just not ready so why not give it to a team, The Bucks, who obviously has better game stragedies then we do and a better coach who knows how to inspire his team to play hard at all times and who have better player rotation than we do..I’m a HUGE Hawks fan, and that’s why I feel better with our team regrouping for next season than to embarrass themselves by laying an egg against the Magic in the next round.
MsDee
April 30th, 2010
1:30 am
northcyde,
I dont think JJ threw that game, it just showed us that JJ cant lead his team to victory when it counts. Jamal too didnt throw that game cause like u said in an example theory, this is his 1ST PLAYOFF EXPERIENCE, why in the world would u look that bad after getting 6th man award?? For me to believe that would have Jamal not take a single shot in the playoffs..but since that wasnt the case, its hard for me to believe that..all in all, the Bucks played harder and out-coached us in everyway. We need a change and if that means moving backwards to make it happen, than so be it!
BirdDawg
April 30th, 2010
1:43 am
LMAO @ Northcyde!!! Too much!
Clyde
April 30th, 2010
2:14 am
lol @Northclyde…I meant Northcyde
FIRE WOODY
Big Ray
April 30th, 2010
3:39 am
Great article, MC .
A few random thoughts on this and the posts I’ve seen here:
1) There is no figuring out who “that player” was that MC was referring to in practice. What makes people think it was only ONE player? I’m willing to bet it was more than one that did this. You just don’t come up with an example of players not listening to the coach with a single player. If you do, then that player is a problem player.
2) The head coach is responsible. As hard as that concept may be for some to swallow, that’s the way it is. Is it a player’s league? Yes. But two things will stick, no matter what you say or do. One, if the coach isn’t teaching the right things, then he is ineffective. Two, if he can’t get the players to listen to him (and I don’t mean one or two, I mean the team in general), then he is ineffective.
An ineffective coach is an ineffective coach, and you can spin it how you like. It’s an element of the NBA game, and it has to be effective.
3) Grandad mentions the axiom that you play how you practice. Man, if I had a buck for every time I’ve said that here. The people on this blog who insist on inhabiting Woody’s underpants ignore this every single time…and then usually bring up the overstated fact that the coach can’t make players execute on the court. Axiom still stands….
4) This team was built around Joe Johnson. It’s also coached around Joe Johnson. The first one is not a problem (though ultimately debatable). The second one is. The team doesn’t fall apart when JJ isn’t in the game simply because JJ is so great. It’s also because this team is coached around what JJ is and what JJ can do. And guess what? JJ is the only player of his kind on this team. Hell, there aren’t many like him in the League itself. So when he’s not on the court in a tight situation (or even for an entire game), this team does not know what to do, and you end up with the more aggressive players trying to take the lead with no instruction on what to do. Case in point, the end of game 5. Josh and Jamal both “sold out” as Northcyde says. They are the two most aggressive players left on the court when JJ isn’t there, followed by Al Horford. The inevitable happened. Again, the old axiom stands: “how you practice is how you’ll play.”
5) Said it many times over the years, but it would have been nice to have a tough veteran in front of guys like Josh and Marvin, somebody with something left to give. We got Joe Smith about 4 or 5 years too late. Thank God Al Horford comes from a great, winning, highly disciplined college program or he might be in the same shape. I think that has been one of the biggest differences between guys like Josh Childress and Al Horford, and Josh Smith and Marvin Williams. Josh came from high school with no fundamentals whatsoever. Marvin came from playing off the bench of a very good college program for one year. It wasn’t enough, and with no credible NBA vets in front of these two, their development has taken forever. It took Smith 6 years to get where he is now, and he’s still not where this team needs him to be. 5 years later, and Marvin is still not really filling a role.
Without a decent amount of college experience or strong veteran prescence in the lineup, this falls on the coaching staff. We’ve seen how that has turned out. Two positions really need this the most, however: point guard and center.
6) I think Al Horford has a good chance at being a “Zo” for us. He’s got the pedigree and the basketball smarts/instincts/fundamentals/intangibles. No, I’m not saying he should be our starting center for the remainder of his career. But he can be “that guy” who helps keep it held together. The problem right now is that Joe is given the role of “that guy”, and he has NEVER BEEN “that guy.” And that’s not an accusation or a dagger, it’s just the truth of the matter. Horford is labeled as being too young. Even Josh has the jump on him in NBA experience. Of course, Horford is one of the few guys I’ve seen Josh listen to consistently.
7) Speaking of Josh, when a guy has been in a particular system longer than just about anybody else on his team, it gives him a sort of “seniority”, no matter how you slice it. Josh is not a leader. He never got to learn from a leader, so he doesn’t know how to be one. But he is the heart of this team in some ways. Al Horford is a leader. I think he will be this team’s leader some day. I don’t know if this can happen while Joe is here, or not. One way or another, this team will change, probably this summer. It has to. I’m not saying Joe has to go, or needs to. But roles need to be changed, re-defined, kept in place. The system itself has to be re-tooled.
“This is who the Hawks are.” That has to change…
Big Ray
April 30th, 2010
3:44 am
Let me also be clear on one thing.
The decisions, growth, self-discipline, development, and so forth of each player is ultimately on the player themselves. Players cannot be truly made to be this or that, and they have to be held accountable for themselves.
What I’m talking about in point # 5 is the influence that external factors have. Coaching is an influence. Playing and practicing with more experienced teammates is an influence. Trainers and specialists (shooting coaches, etc) are an influence. All of these external influences are quite important, and we know this. I am not making excuses for players who don’t work on their games, or don’t give enough effort. I’m just not going to ignore the importance and impact of coaching and veteran leadership/influence.
zip eddie doodah
April 30th, 2010
5:46 am
further possibilities- richard nixon, john the baptist, rip snooter, mae west, candy cane, rymo dunke, john daly, tiger woods women, benny hinn. the point is, some teams are beyond reach. this may be one of them. josh and bibby are so ignorant you cant depend on them for anything. and marvin williams is almost comatose. so where can you go? its just a bad mix and the only way to fix it is break it up. or better, blow it up real good.
rex
April 30th, 2010
6:45 am
dont take it out on Mike because he was right newbie !
give us a possible list of players…..AND, if you are gonna blog in a Major Sports Page MC, then YOU gotta get hardened. Even soft-headed LibTard Schultzie can take the heat much better than that.
Hawks win NBA ha
April 30th, 2010
6:59 am
Fear the Bucks as they knock the hawks out n send home with tails between legs and Mike Woodson with bald head and out of hawks office with suitcase after the 111 to 89 beat down by the bucks!
O'Brien
April 30th, 2010
7:11 am
Good Post Ray. You play how you practice, especially when you’ve been playing in the same system for so long (Josh – 6 years, Marvin, JJ and ZaZa – 5 years, Bibby and Al – 3years).
For those thinking JJ is not clutch, lets not forget about his game 4 performance against Boston in the playoffs (especially in the fourth quarter). Lets not forget that at the end of the season, he carried us to a victory in Milwaukee (ironically enough, if we lose that game, we would be playing Miami).
And there are numerous other games and quarters where he carried us home. So I dont know how to explain his horrible performance in game 5. However, if he plays badly in game 6, the question becomes do you offer him a max contract, which if I remember correctly, would be about 6 years, $108 million?
Another example of coaching gone bad.
Kidd has played horrible against the Spurs. Although he averaged 8 pts, 7 assists, 6 rebounds, he also shot 9-28 from 3 (14-46 overall), and played 41 mpg.
Last night, the Mavs were down big. They bring in Beaubois (their rookie G, drafted #26), and he gave them a spark (16 pts in 21 minutes, and he had the second highest +/- on the team), and helped the Mavs make a run to get back close.
But in the fourth, Carlisle does not play Beaubois until the 2:44 mark in the fourth quarter. Geez. Whats wrong with these coaches? The rookie helps your team make a run, and you hardly give him any PT in the fourth…
Ramon
April 30th, 2010
7:36 am
Here’s a suggestion, would Shaq be a good addition for the off season? If we could bring on Shaq and Barnes or Hill, I think that would be huge in terms of competing next year in the playoffs.
tremaine
April 30th, 2010
8:01 am
Michael the hawks should forget about Joe Johnson. I got two words for you: DAVID LEE!
tremaine
April 30th, 2010
8:14 am
C David Lee
PF Al Horford
SF Josh Smith
SG Jamal Crawford
PG Mike Bibby
Nacho
April 30th, 2010
8:15 am
Why does people call Woody defensive coach when he has centers trying to defend guards and his defense if be exploited each game?