Atlanta Hawks at Bucks Game 3: By The Numbers
Oh, how I wish this was around back when I started my Iso-Joe count.
As I stated at the time my goal was to try to create some good data to better illuminate the debate on isos so arguments could be based on statistics rather than perceptions. Not to say stats can tell the whole story of Isos or anything else–I’ve already said I initially underestimated the impact the isos can have on the Hawks’ psychology and chemistry–but the numbers obviously would be a tremendous analytical tool.
You might have noticed that I never did offer my final Iso-Joe count. That’s because there were three games or so where I wasn’t confident about my count and I couldn’t go back and check it due to problems with my garbage Comcast DVR. I heard Synergy Sports was going to offer a public version of the software it provides for teams soon. So I decided to wait until it was online so I could get an accurate count of J.J. isos, and not just for the games I counted but the entire season. Plus I also wanted to see data on the Hawks’ other play types so comparisons can be made, which makes the exercise infinitely more useful. Well, Synergy is up now and I signed up for it the other day but (of course) the computer problems I mentioned yesterday so far have prevented me from getting it up and running. But, once I do, I plan to examine Iso-Joes and more.
I see that super commenter Najeh and crew already have cited a Raptors blog that used some of the Synergy stuff. Just like that they have managed to to impeach the persistent complaints from Truth and others that Al is a weak post defender. According to Synergy’s numbers, he is one of the best despite being posted up more than almost any other center. That’s the beauty of this Synergy program–statements like “Al is a poor post defender” can be evaluated statistically instead of argued endlessly using isolated examples, hunches and perceptions.
Anyway, Synergy has some sample reports available for the first-round playoff series. The first thing that jumped out at me from the Eastern Conference playoffs summary is that the Hawks rank last among East teams in defensive points per play. They’ve been the worst East playoff team against pick-and-rolls (and ranked just 25th during the season) and third-best against isolations. On offense the Hawks not surprisingly have run the most isolation plays among East playoff teams but ranked just 12th during the regular season (”all they run are isos”). The Hawks have run the third-most post-ups after ranking 19th during the regular season (”Woody never adjusts”).
Those numbers have to be placed in context since, unlike with regular season stats, teams haven’t played common opponents. But they are cool to look at for some insight. Here are Synergy’s Hawks-Bucks series numbers and definitions for the stats. I’m looking forward to digging in once I figure out my technical issues.
– hawksdawgs at Peachtree Hoops breaks down tonight’s “ball game ball game”. I think he hit on something here about what has become known as the Skiles Dilemma in this series:
One bright spot for the Hawks is our role players have sucked something awful this series. Maybe the road will provide just the reverse psychology they need to get things going. If Mo Evans, Jamal Crawford, and Zaza Pachulia can give average minutes, the front court dominance should continue in some form or fashion for the Hawks to win their third in a row. I have no doubt Skiles will throw something new at the Josh and Al, but I can’t help but think it will be at the expense of guarding Joe Johnson or Jamal Crawford. So that is fine by me.
– Have fun, Hawks fans.
MC
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
248 comments Add your comment
kwooden1
April 24th, 2010
9:02 pm
I just missed the 3rd quarter and I’m glad I did. I’m embarrassed for how we played defensive!
VenomSpitter
April 24th, 2010
9:02 pm
At least there is a bright spot. Woody is being exposed as the terrible coach he really is. If Woody didn’t say he was a defensive coach I would have no problem but he says he is.
Elliot_C
April 24th, 2010
9:02 pm
I can’t say the same for the team, but Josh Smith is not playing with effort right now. If you are not going to contribute, you shouldn’t be in the game.
Pfshaw
April 24th, 2010
9:02 pm
Josh let Mbah BOute (?) torch his azz twice, Delfino once Illya sova once. Embarrassing
VenomSpitter
April 24th, 2010
9:03 pm
And all u clowns who insulted Jon Barry for his Jekyll and Hyde comment are fools. I don’t like him either but he is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THis team has a split personality.
bigdave
April 24th, 2010
9:03 pm
there is no bright side to this.. game 4 now becomes a must win.
VenomSpitter
April 24th, 2010
9:05 pm
Did Josh even run back.
Man Josh u look like a fool. Talkin trash then playing like garbage. Sit ur no jumper having azz down.
Elliot_C
April 24th, 2010
9:07 pm
I don’t know what woodson is thinking right now. It’s obvious that Josh doesn’t have his head in the game right now. He should be playing Al instead, at least Al was starting to get it going there in the third before he was taken out of the game.
Blast
April 24th, 2010
9:07 pm
Why are the starters still in the game? This game is over! Apart from Joe, and Al late, though they stopped going to Horford, the starters have sucked it up! From the bench, Jamal has been the worst offender.
Put in the bench! This game is over!
Steven
April 24th, 2010
9:08 pm
We’ve played 8 road games in the playoffs the past 3 years. 7 we have lost and I think we’ve lost them all by 20+ points. That is pathetic.
lewis
April 24th, 2010
9:08 pm
Pathetic pathetic pathetic pathetic pathetic pathetic pathetic i don’t even know why i looked forward to this for 3 days. give me 10 mill a year ill throw more effort. woodson has no ability to motivate his team on the road pathetic. no leaders. pathetic.
VenomSpitter
April 24th, 2010
9:09 pm
Woody has taken this team as far as he can. Anybody can coach a team to win on the ROAD. Can him and get somebody else.
O'Brien
April 24th, 2010
9:09 pm
As for the game tonight, Hawks defense has been terrible. Hawks offense has been terrible too.
19 pts in the first quarter, 17 points in the third quarter. But our defense sucks.
Nobody has showed up besides GI Joe.
Wabe,
I think we should give Teague some burn, just to get him some more experience. Because I just dont see the Hawks coming back to win anyways.
If I’m Woody, I think about sitting my starters for the rest of the game, letting them know that their play is horrible.
And we have to hear Jon Barry talk about our road struggles, and our horrible production for the 3 spot.
Put in Teague Woody.
VenomSpitter
April 24th, 2010
9:10 pm
My bad I meant to say anybody can coach a team to win at HOME
Elliot_C
April 24th, 2010
9:10 pm
I’m guessing the starters are still in because Woodson probably has some mini-goals left for this game, like winning the 4th quarter. Skiles still thinks he has something to prove by inserting Salmons into the game when he is up 27.
VenomSpitter
April 24th, 2010
9:12 pm
Man can we trade coaches please
Kiki
April 24th, 2010
9:12 pm
Woody needs to kick some player’s ass in the locker room. This one lays on the them, not on the coach, and he needs to send a clear message of what is at stake.
kwooden1
April 24th, 2010
9:12 pm
Looking at this 4th quarter, I see the same thing. I guys not getting in peoples faces. Guys not playing with extreme intensity.
VenomSpitter
April 24th, 2010
9:14 pm
Hawks=Garbage
LOL at people thinking we can make it to the ECF. We would lose to the Magic or Bobcats.
Mel
April 24th, 2010
9:15 pm
someone tell jon barry to STFU .. you have made your point..
O'Brien
April 24th, 2010
9:15 pm
Woody needs to give RandMo some burn too. Why is Josh still in the game?
JJ is -25 for the game. Wow. Sometimes I just dont understand these +/- ratings.
northcyde
April 24th, 2010
9:15 pm
JSS
April 24th, 2010
8:58 pm
So, Michael Cunningham, welcome to Atlanta! Let this be a lesson, NEVER talk about a possible next series match up before the clock reads 0:00 and 4 victories for the Hawks!
****************
LOL . . . true.
o.O-Mac-Town -Macon, Georgia- Westsider-O.o
April 24th, 2010
9:16 pm
typical
keno
April 24th, 2010
9:16 pm
Josh shouldn’t worry about having nothing to do tomorrow. I’m pretty sure the coaching staff will have plenty to keep him occupied.
o.O-Mac-Town -Macon, Georgia- Westsider-O.o
April 24th, 2010
9:17 pm
Crucial playoff minutes for Mario West……….he’s probably gonna be the starting SG next year.
Elliot_C
April 24th, 2010
9:17 pm
The worst repercussion of this is that now we have to hear all of the people who know nothing about the team trash the Hawks to no end until the Hawks win again. Then they’ll jump back on the bandwagon again…as usual.
northcyde
April 24th, 2010
9:17 pm
Nothing like a 30 point loss to suck the euphoria out of a fan base.
At least Teague hit a jumper. People will now say . . . “see . . . if Woody would’ve only played Teague . . “
bigdave
April 24th, 2010
9:18 pm
is Marvin Williams really athletic..?
drmaryb
April 24th, 2010
9:18 pm
This “I’ll – Witch”. Just put her BROOM away! Hehehehe.
VenomSpitter
April 24th, 2010
9:18 pm
Josh should be banned from the media for his comments. Don’t talk $hit if u can’t back it up.
Josh gets the Clown of the Game Award.
Elliot_C
April 24th, 2010
9:20 pm
Thank goodness the next game is not on ESPN. I won’t have to hear Jon Barry and his garbage anymore.
Elliot_C
April 24th, 2010
9:22 pm
All of a sudden Zaza decided he wanted to play. Maybe this will get him going in the next game.
o.O-Mac-Town -Macon, Georgia- Westsider-O.o
April 24th, 2010
9:22 pm
lmfao…royal ivey
bigdave
April 24th, 2010
9:23 pm
“JSS
April 24th, 2010
8:58 pm
So, Michael Cunningham, welcome to Atlanta! Let this be a lesson, NEVER talk about a possible next series match up before the clock reads 0:00 and 4 victories for the Hawks!
****************
LOL . . . true.”
im sorry… what exactly does discussing Orlando (a potential 2nd round opponent) on this blog have anything to do with this poor performance, game 1/2 wins, or any other game? is Michael Cunningham head coach/player?
Mel
April 24th, 2010
9:24 pm
@Elliot_C
ESPN in general are horrible. I think they only have two things on paper about this team.
1. The gradual improvement under Woodson
2. They’re road record in the playoffs.
Instructions to announcers.
Repeat that if you’re not talking about Kobe/LeBron
Joey
April 24th, 2010
9:24 pm
What happened to Joe Smith tonight? Was he that bad that he couldn’t even get minutes during garbage time?
Mel
April 24th, 2010
9:25 pm
I hate these damn red uniforms.. knew the game was over when i heard they were wearing those
northcyde
April 24th, 2010
9:25 pm
LOL . . I can’t wait to see MC’s write-up later on tonight. I might be a little tipsy when I read it though.
Joey
April 24th, 2010
9:27 pm
I hope the Hawks at least get this under 20 to make this a bit more respectable on paper…
Scoop
April 24th, 2010
9:27 pm
Great job by the Bucks. You’ve got to hand it to Scott Skiles and his staff. It appears that the extra time in between games allowed them to make the necessary adjustments to be competitive. That is what good coaches do.
First, they adjusted by putting mbah ah moute on Smoove instead of delfino. Their logic was probably that they would let Joe get his numbers and try to contain everybody else. This obviously worked. With Smoove having little impact on the offensive end (let alone of the defensive end), the Hawks were clueless offensively and resorted to “iso Joe”. No production from Bibby, Marvin, Smoove, or our entire bench.
Second, our defensive execution was worse then our offense. The Bucks weren’t doing anything so abstract that could have caught us off guard, just simple screens and good ball movement. Our defensive rotations were god awful-especially to the open shooters on the wings and the help in the lane from dribble penetration. Something has to be done about our perimeter defense. Joe Johnson is a great defender but he cant guard Jennings on the perimeter and we all know Bibby cant guard anybody on the perimeter. In the first half alone, three times a screen was set on Joe at the top of the key and as usual Joe was late getting around it which resulted in Jennings with a wide open three and he made all three. No adjustment was made.
It seems the only adjustment Woody ever makes is increasing Joe’s minutes when the situation gets bad. I was lol’ing when Woody had Mo in the game with Joe and yet Joe was still guarding Jennings and Mo was guarding Salmons. Mo’s value lies in defense, particularly on the perimeter. It would seem obvious that Mo would be better able to guard Jennings and Joe to guard Salmons, who likes to play in the paint. Getting absolutely nothing from Marvin the whole year, inserting Mo into the starting lineup and moving Joe to the 3 would solve a lot of our problems-mainly defense on the perimeter, and Mo would probably give us more production on offense as well.
Its one game but man that was a beating.
northcyde
April 24th, 2010
9:27 pm
bigdave . . . it’s the fact that people were acting like the Hawks were almost a lock to sweep the Bucks, even though they KNOW we’re a bad road team.
We’re a clone of the Denver Nuggets. This is how they play.
Mel
April 24th, 2010
9:28 pm
OMG Barry STFU
Joey
April 24th, 2010
9:28 pm
Someone needs to smack that anorexic boy on the Bucks bench.
O'Brien
April 24th, 2010
9:29 pm
northcyde,
I am a fan of Jeff Teague, and I think he deserved more minutes earlier in the season. But,Hawks have bigger problems that has nothing to do with Teague.
I hope fans realize that our defense and our offense were terrible tonight. And there is nothing Teague could have done. This loss is going to be shared by all the players and coaches.
I look forward to Woody’s post game conference. He is going to say “We couldn’t score, and we couldn’t get stops, and thats a bad combination”.
Man, what is Marvin doing? He stumbles more than any other player in the NBA lol
bigdave
April 24th, 2010
9:30 pm
good foul Mario..
Joey
April 24th, 2010
9:31 pm
Correction…Someone needs to smack Jon Barry with that anorexic boy on the Bucks bench.
TNScott
April 24th, 2010
9:33 pm
This team seemingly couldn’t be any more schizophrenic if Norman Bates started at the point, but it sure would explain things.
ant banks
April 24th, 2010
9:36 pm
can’t wait to hear the lame azz excuses from the coach and the team:
“we weren’t focused.” “they wanted it more than we did.” “we got out hustled.” “we thought that we could sit back and relax.”
FIRE WOODYS AND LET JJ WALK. they are the heart of a heartless team. keepin’ these two WON’T make us better next year.
drmaryb
April 24th, 2010
9:41 pm
SCOOP – IT – UP!
That man is on point! And, he nailed it to the roof!
Wabe
April 24th, 2010
9:41 pm
Being a bad road team shouldn’t mean a 20+ point blowout.
We beat the Bucks minus Jamal Crawford in Milwaukee towards the end of the season. I’ll admit, the chances of a sweep were slim. But, it’s concerning to see us come out completely lack-a-daisical. No focus, no energy, no intent to step up and put our foot down on them.