Atlanta Hawks: ASG’s Michael Gearon Jr. Talks Hawks
Talked to ASG’s Michael Gearon Jr for a playoffs preview story last week. Couldn’t get everything in, so here are some excerpts from the interview:
Michael Gearon, Jr. (Brant Sanderlin/AJC)
On the season
“It is good. I’ve been around the franchise since I was a kid. For us, when we came in here it was all about trying to build a team through the draft with a core group of guys, a young team. The goal we’ve had is get better every year. The goal this year is to move up from where we were last year. This is our third year in playoffs, and its’ not about making the playoffs. It’s about going as far as we can as a team.
“We’ve got a bunch of guys that believe in themselves, and when we are playing the right way we are as good as any team in the league. I’ve been waiting for this day since the end of last season, as a fan. Our your guys have matured, they are used to the playoffs.”
On Woody’s performance
“He’s done a good job. Getting the third seed, 53 wins, each year we keep getting better and better—regular season, he has done a tremendous job. But us a franchise, from the ownership down, we judge ourselves in the playoffs. It’s not just the regular season, its’ winning championships and we feel we have the right core here, culturally—coach, GM, players—and that’s what we are trying to do.”
On leaving Woody’s future up to Rick Sund
“Any owner that meddles with coaches and players, that’s a mistake. We have become a franchise that has become a standard for, we are loyal to our coaches, loyal to our GM, loyal to our players. I think loyalty goes both ways. I think (Woody) is the longest tenured coach in the East (tied with Doc Rivers). We brought Joe in here, and we’ve built with a bunch of good young players. I think we are capable of being an elite team, and that is what we have been building for.”
On intentions to bring back J.J.
“That’s always been the goal. Last summer, we committed to doing it back then. We think Joe likes it here. We like Joe here. We fought hard to get Joe here, as everyone knows. He’s a four-time All-Star. He’s been the face of this franchise and the team has been built around Joe.”
On his view of the Hawks’ offense
“I’m not a coach, I’m not a GM, but when you watch our team, when we move the ball, we are pretty good. Because we’ve got a deep team. We don’t have LeBron, we don’t have Kobe, but we’ve got a deep team where any night we’ve got a bunch of guys capable of performing at a high level. I look at our team kind of like the Boston Celtics of the 80s, when they had Bird, Walton, Ainge, Parrish, McHale–you don’t know on what night which guy is going to get the points. That is when we are at our best. And we’ve got two guys capable of breaking down a defense, Joe and Jamal. Not many teams have that. That is one of our strengths.”
On players’ support for Woody
“We stood by him when everyone in the world said, ‘Why are you standing by this coach with 13 wins, 27 wins, 30 wins.’ Woody is a good guy. I think one way you can judge a coach is whether players play hard for you, and these guys play hard for Woody.”
On direction of team
“It’s not easy to win 53 games, but I think it’s important you understand that as a franchise, we are not slapping each other on the back. We want to be an elite team for many years and we’ve got the core to do that because we are one of the youngest good teams in the league. I think it’s interesting that we started a youth movement. Portland did it, Oklahoma did it. Minnesota, Memphis. Maybe it’s not a good idea to go out and sign Kenyon Martin for $90 million, or trade Andre Miler for Allen Iverson, and realize that doesn’t’ work in Denver. . . . I’m gun-shy of trading for long-term, high-profile veteran, because if you look at the league historically, it’s hard.
“I’m glad we didn’t get impatient. We stayed the course and Woody was supportive of that. Coaches in this league, they lose and they trash the organization, they trash the players. It’s never them. One of the things I have always admired about Mike is when Josh was 18, 19, 20 he never said something about Josh in the paper. Childress, Marvin—he stayed the course. That’s not easy.”
On size of future payroll and using cap exceptions
“I have no idea. We haven’t made decisions based on payroll. If we had, we wouldn’t have gotten Crawford. We have always been committed to keeping our core together. Josh Smith was a restricted free agent. We knew Josh wasn’t going anywhere, but the way the league rules work with restricted free agents it’s a different process. With Joe last summer, we offered the max money we could offer him as a player. Rick is more the one to talk to about the mid-level (exception), but I’ve seen more mistakes with the mid-level than I have smart decisions.
“I love our core team, but there are two phases to this. We just finished the first phase. These questions are better asked after the postseason. I don’t know. You and I are sitting here talking today, but if we get swept first round, I might see our guys differently. I love our core, but I think what has allowed us to be successful has been flexibility. We turned Shelden Williams into Mike Bibby. That’s a pretty darn good move. We turned Acie Law and Speedy Claxton into Jamal Crawford. I don’t fault anything we have done today. I love Mo. He’s a great guy, he plays his tail off. It’s hard to find guys who do that for four minutes or 40.”
MC
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180 comments Add your comment
D Hawks
April 19th, 2010
10:53 am
Interesting article. He does everything but say “We’ll do whatever it takes to lock up Woody long-term.” I think it’s pretty obvious that the key to this team staying together is how well they do this postseason.
D Hawks
April 19th, 2010
10:59 am
One more thing…it’s funny how he speaks of turning Williams into Bibby and Law and Claxton into Jamal Crawford as if those weren’t lousy deals that set us back several years to begin with. Well, at least things appear to be going the right direction now. Go Hawks!
Ree Roe
April 19th, 2010
11:02 am
I like the fact Gearon has been more visible & outspoken recently. I think we as fans need to know what our owner thinks & feels and his words are pretty much in line with how most of us feel. If Woody has an incredible run in this year’s playoffs he’ll be back. Same for Joe. I like that that’s how it will play out & I look fwd to seeing how it plays out
-REEligiously Roe!!!
Mike is Back
April 19th, 2010
11:20 am
MC, really GREAT STUFF…at a really great time!! Garson Jr seems sincere with his responses. Now the team can go out and focus on the playoff without having to worry about the silly speculative questions about the future direction of the organization that are bound to come up. I really the like the closing comments on MO…That let me know they are in tune to the players comments. That should be a big boost to the staff and the team.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GeeMack
April 19th, 2010
11:35 am
You also turned Chris Paul into Marvin Willam.
Willy
April 19th, 2010
11:38 am
How long till our resident experts post up to tell what’s REALLY going on with ASG? This interview didn’t sound at all consistent with the frantic babblings of our Hawks blog conspiracy theorists.
Wabe
April 19th, 2010
11:43 am
Good stuff MC.
Interesting read.
Fresh
April 19th, 2010
11:48 am
Good article MC.
This is the type of stuff we as fans need to hear more about. Right now the city is really, really warming back up to these Hawks. All we as the fans want to be sure of is that the owners are 100 percent behind this team and that they are focused on building a championship contender.
Like I’ve been saying, show us (the fans) that you want to win, and we will come and support this team night in and night out.
Once again, great article MC.
Fresh
April 19th, 2010
11:53 am
Willy,
I’m wondering the same thing lol. I don’t post much, but I follow the blog frequently throughout the day and I must say I do get a great laugh from the blog “conspiracy theorists”.
Jumpin Jack Clash
April 19th, 2010
11:56 am
That was a very interesting interview. Gearon Jr has pretty much step forward as the face of the Hawks Ownership. Perhaps he heard alot of Braves fans talking about having a faceless ownership.
I hope they are serious about locking Al Horford up this offseason as well. He has gone under the radar when it come to locking guys up long term. We let Horford hit RFA. We are asking to get screwed over. Horford has been the key to this turnaround. We finally got production out of the C position.
JeJe
April 19th, 2010
11:58 am
“When we are playing the right way we are as good as any team in the league.”
Very good, Mr. Gearon! It’s funny how about 28 other teams in the NBA say the exact same thing
JeJe
April 19th, 2010
12:01 pm
What Gearon said about the money situation has nothing to do with what Bruce Levenson told me — that both teams are losing millions of dollars every year. Also, he completely deviates on the question about Woody’s future up to Sund — all of a sudden he’s talking about Joe Johnson and what he’s done for this team.
Also, why does this guy always mention other players in the league and make comparisons? DIdn’t he say Woody was a good coach because JR Smith and J.Smoove were the same player in the draft but Josh has turned out better?
EW
April 19th, 2010
12:08 pm
I’m not sure I buy the “we haven’t made any decisions based on payroll” statement. BUT I like hearing the committment to building an elite team here. The offseason will tell if those statements are valid. Good article, looking forward to more. GO HAWKS!
Blue
April 19th, 2010
12:12 pm
Good one GeeMack ……………….. He also turned Brandon Roy into Sheldon Williams. I’m still smarting over that one.
O'Brien
April 19th, 2010
12:12 pm
Great blog MC,
“He’s done a good job. Getting the third seed, 53 wins, each year we keep getting better and better—regular season, he has done a tremendous job. But us a franchise, from the ownership down, we judge ourselves in the playoffs.”
“I love our core team, but there are two phases to this. We just finished the first phase. These questions are better asked after the postseason. I don’t know. You and I are sitting here talking today, but if we get swept first round, I might see our guys differently.”
Samuel,
Could that be why they haven’t offered your COY a contract yet? Because they want to see how the Hawks do in the playoffs. And that makes good business sense to me. Sure, they run the risk of Woody leaving to take another job, but its a risk worth taking.
Give the Hawks ownership and management credit though, because our draft mistakes have not crippled us.
Dr. Warren
April 19th, 2010
12:27 pm
The national media, including Bill Simmons this week, act as though it’s a foregone conclusion that Joe Johnson will leave for Chicago, NY, NJ, or the Clippers. Simmons claims it’s the end of the Hawks rejuvenation, and that next year, they’ll win 42 or less. I don’t agree–I think they’ll get close to the “Final Four” this year, if not make it. It does indeed depend on the next few weeks, as Gearon says.
JeJe
April 19th, 2010
12:30 pm
“Give the Hawks ownership and management credit though, because our draft mistakes have not crippled us.”
LOL. Where were you when this team won 13, 26, and 30 games?
This team made some of the most egregious drafting errors in CONSECUTIVE errors
Hawks News Roundup | Soaring Down South | An Atlanta Hawks blog
April 19th, 2010
12:31 pm
[...] Cunningham at the AJC.com Hawks Blog posted an excellent interview with the Atlanta Spirit’s Michael Gearon Jr. It is an excellent read and touches on a variety [...]
HawkKingBibby
April 19th, 2010
12:35 pm
Either Orlando or Clevland will expose our need for a few more nba calibur bigs. I just hope they get some in here. It seems like they are afraid to go the extra mile or extra buck to match up with the big teams.
Sautee
April 19th, 2010
12:35 pm
From the previous blog:
The KING OF BLOG RESEARCH said this:
“As for people saying to use the bench . . this is the playoffs folks. Rotations will shrink across the board.”
Last night there were 8 teams playing. 3 of those teams, the Lakers, Mavs, and Portland, used primarily an 8 man rotation. OKC used 9 and the other four
(Bobcats, Magic, Spurs and Suns) used 10.
Last I looked 3 of 8 was NOT exactly “shrinking across the board”.
But hey, I’m not a KING or anything, so maybe I just don’t know!
hawks_4_life
April 19th, 2010
12:39 pm
Love how the nay-sayers just always have to find something negative to say.
phar71
April 19th, 2010
12:48 pm
You should have asked him why, they pushed a white out, and he and his family wore blue and red shirts at the game on Saturday.
Section 303
April 19th, 2010
12:49 pm
That’s a good interview, Michael. When it gets here, this offseason is going to be an interesting one. I predict both Joe and Woody will be back.
People forget that the Hawks were basically an expansion team when Woody took over. The Hawks have not cheated the process. We have not brought in any hired gun vets (Elton Brand, Kenyon Martin) that never really do anything. The Hawks have stayed the course, built a core, and now are in a position to add pieces around the core group (Jamal Crawford).
People are never going to stop with the Chris Paul stuff (I wanted Darren Williams). But, I think the worst pick, as someone above mentioned was Sheldon Williams. Marvin may not be Chris Paul or Darren Williams, but at least he can play. We took “The Landlord” at #5 and he could not even get on the floor.
You could go through any team’s past and find mistakes. The good organizations get out of their mistakes. And, so far, the Hawks have gotten out of theirs. Sheldon Williams is gone. Speedy is gone. Acie Law is gone. In there place we have Bibby and Crawford. Not bad, if you ask me.
Section 303
April 19th, 2010
12:53 pm
Hawks_4_Life, welcome to this blog. If one didn’t know any better, he would have thought the season was done. The 53 wins and #3 seed in the East never happened. But, they did. Yet, we still have some crying about a draft that happened 5-years ago.
I question if some on here really even get enjoyment out of watching the games. This has been a great ride, so far. Sit back and enjoy it.
TigerWoods
April 19th, 2010
12:58 pm
Obrien, you are losing it. Give this set of owners credit? For what? Do you even think before you talk? Read below for educational purposes…
How can Mike Gearon compare Hawks to Celtics of 80s? Is he high or just ignorant? That team had 3-4 Hall of famers. How many think any of the current Hawks may end up in HOF? Not one.
The model for this team, is Detroit Pistons. But while that team had toughness, Hawks lacks that. Hawks have a good core of scorers, but unless owners are willing to spend money to get depth on the bench, and couple of good defensive bigs, no way this team will do any better.
You can put it on coach, and make him the scapegoat, but the fact is that Hawks have reached their potential as currently made. Orlando and Cavs both improved themselves this last offseason by adding important starting pieces. In the case of Cavs, even at trade deadline. And they have more on their bench.
What did Hawks do? Nothing.
I am sorry, this has nothing to do with coach.
As for the slow methodical rise, it goes unsaid that bad drafting, made it such a long process. For comparison look at the tremendous improvement by Thunder in one year. How many people think drafting Marvin and Sheldon, put us back years.
An owner that does not get involved in his business, not changing direction of BK until too late, and an owner who does not give green light to get more bigs, or does not look at Marvin’s situation carefully, has as much responsibility as any coach or GM. Otherwise, that owner becomes irrelevant. Unfortunately Hawks have too many irrelevant owner.
hawks_4_life
April 19th, 2010
1:03 pm
Section 303 thanks, I read it everyday but rarely comment, alot of negativity in a positive time. Its good to focus on the destination but dont forget to enjoy the ride people.
Tony from Stone Mountain
April 19th, 2010
1:04 pm
The Hawks could not have afforded Brandon Roy and Chris Paul. And what position would Brandon Roy play? Jamal would not be on the team and we would still not have Al Horford or any quality center. Be happy for the team that you have Hawks fans!
GeeMack
April 19th, 2010
1:13 pm
O’Brien
“Give the Hawks ownership and management credit though, because our draft mistakes have not crippled us”
I gotta diagree with you on this one. CP3 with Josh & Joe is a championship team this year
If CP3 is here were are looking at our 3rd consecutive 50 win season oppose to our 1st.
The areana would be full every night like Clevland and LA.
We wouldn’t be losing money the Hawks would be profiting.
So it has hurt us in more ways than one.
Michael Gearon
April 19th, 2010
1:17 pm
I think Billy Knight did a great job drafting the young core for this team. In 2004, we signed an inexperienced assistant coach named, Mike Woodson. Our team thought Woodson was a good candidate for the job. He worked under Larry Brown and was part of the 2004 Pistons championship team. We thought to ourselves “hey, this guy may be the next Red Auerbach!” Then in the draft, we selected Josh Childress over Andre Iguodala, drafted Josh Smith (who in our minds was an absolute steal) and also drafted two great players in Royal Ivey and Donta Smith. Then in 05′, we drafted Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams. A lot of people criticized us for making that move, but look how well Marvin has turned out for this team. He’s become a huge factor in our success. In 2006, we drafted Shelden Williams over Brandon Roy because we thought Shelden was the better player, and we thought having more role players on our team would be better than having true leaders. So, since we didn’t draft a shooting guard, I asked Billy [Knight-mare] why don’t we trade two unprotected first round picks to the Phoenix Suns for a 3-tier role player named, Joe Johnson?
We thought Joe had a lot of potential, and in our eyes could be the next Kobe Bryant. And we also needed a veteran point guard, so I asked Billy Knight “why don’t we sign an injury-prone backup to a 4-year, $25 million deal”? We thought Speedy Claxton would be a very good fit for our team. Al Horford was a steal for us in 07′. Acie Law was a very good player, and we actually thought he was the best point guard prospect in that draft. And til’ this day, we are continuing to build our team into a contender. As long as Mike Woodson is on that bench motivating our guys, Rick Sund is our GM (and we all know Sund has an eye for talent) I have nothing to worry about as a owner.
VenomSpitter
April 19th, 2010
1:23 pm
Personally I think they’re gonna re-sign woody. Becuz really they don’t have to pay him alot. I’m fine with woody being here as long as we have an offensive coordinator.
hawks_4_life
April 19th, 2010
1:33 pm
I like when he said the franchise is loyal to its players. Loyalty in sports these days is none existent and its refreshing knowing the owners values his players.
O'Brien
April 19th, 2010
1:50 pm
JeJe, GeeMack,
I agree that BK made 2 HUGE draft mistakes. Marvin over CP3 or Deron, and Shelden over Roy (or anybody else). And they did set the Hawks back (as you mentioned, with 13, 26 and 30 wins).
But I dont think it “crippled” us.
This is our third straight trip to the playoffs, and 2 years in a row we have been top 4 in the East. And if we had CP3, who knows about his injuries (2 seasons out of 5).
And its possible that with his salary, the BASG could be running into financial issues paying Joe a max contract, big money to Josh, and big money to CP3 (although with him on this team, we would have had more revenue).
And what about our bench? We could not afford Crawford.
Again, I agree that BK’s draft mistakes have hurt us in more ways than one, but I dont think it crippled us. And thats my opinion.
TigerWoods,
I think the point that he was trying to make is that on any given night, Crawford could burn you, JJ could burn you, and Josh or Al could burn you. But I dont think it was wise of him to say this team reminds him of the Celtics of old. That team won championships, and the guys were HOF.
DeepDiver
April 19th, 2010
1:52 pm
TigerWoods — the Hawks did something this offseason (besides retain their core) — they traded absolute garbage for Jamal (the Microwave II) Crawford.
northcyde
April 19th, 2010
2:00 pm
Sautee . . . it’s not my fault that you don’t watch enough NBA basketball to know this trend. It’s common knowledge amongst most NBA fans who watch the game. It’s also common knowledge that playoff games are much more physical and ticky-tack fouls are called less. As well as the gameplay usually slows down significantly.
Let’s just see throughout these playoffs, if teams will continue to play 10 guys decent minutes ( not spot minutes, but decent minutes ), if they are involved in a tight game.
I know one thing . . Greg Popovich isn’t going to fool with George Hill much, if he puts up another performance like that. He’ll have no choice but to start Parker and drastically reduce Hill’s minutes. He won’t mess around much with Dejuan Blair either, if he doesn’t come to play.
But when foul trouble or injuries come about ( like they did in the Orlando and Charlotte game ), the bench guys better be ready to step up. And the coaches will play more people.
collegedude
April 19th, 2010
2:08 pm
Go Hawks
Falcon fans, come meet & have lunch with 3 Falcon’s legends & support a local charity at the same time. Jeff Van Note, Jessie Tuggle, & Buddy Curry will be there and have a Q&A session with those in attendence. Check it out here: http://www.falconnationcharities.org/lunchwithlegends.html
Fundamentals
April 19th, 2010
2:19 pm
Nice to see the ownership give a few comments. We need that face, that presence to build our team. We all konw the future of our team lies in this playoff series and the next. That’s no big surpise.
I loved the intensity in the 1st half the other night. Hopefully that’ll translate into a 4-5 game series for the 1st round. Round 2 will really show us where we stand. I hope and pray for progress sake we show our abilities. I personally think we have a good shot to win, but others will whine.
Drafts come and go. If folks think our drafts in the past 5-6 years sucked so bad where were they during the 90’s and early 2000’s? We sure did rack up some superior talent there. At least we’ve got some players on the court contributing. Something our recent past never got us. Hindsight’s always 20-20. We’ve got a great team. Be proud of it. Let the past go.
Deer Should Fear! Go Hawks!
south ga boy
April 19th, 2010
2:28 pm
O’Brien, I usually agree with you on your Falcons comments, but we differ on our opinion of the Hawks. You say ownership hasn’t crippled us with our draft picks. That’s akin to saying at least Tiger didn’t murder someone, therfore his image could be worse. I don’t want to re-hash old news but Josh and Al are our only homeruns picks. Sheldon Williams, Boris Diaw and Law were absolute Busts. Childress was a semi-bust for a 6th overall pick that couldn’t start and has given us nothing the last 2 yrs by bombing in Greece. Marvin has not played up to the potential of a No. 2 overall pick. The ASG does not inspire confidence for their fanbase, thank you very much. I see the Hawks being at a real tipping point in the next few weeks. Franchises, all across Sports, work and build, thru differing philosophies (ie: thru the draft, or free agencies, or trades, veterans or youth, strong coaching, mortgaging everything for a potential superstar, or as in the Hawks trying to rise thru a CORE of players) and they reach a point where they peak and stall, or they peak and fall, or they bust thru to an elite status. We have reached that place with the Hawks. They bust thru and beat at least Orlando or Olando and Cleveland. They lose in the 2nd rd in 5 games and realize they have hit their head on their ceiling, or they lose to the Magic, cant re-sign JJ, fire Woody and fall back to mediocrity. I hope they bust thru. I hope we advance to at least the 3rd rd and re-sign JJ. I hope we continue with Woody because coaching stability is highly underrated in pro sports. I hope we Hawks fans, who suffered thru a 13 win season, are rewarded with a deep playoff run and a “sky’s the limit outlook on the future.” I HOPE. I HOPE…….
Sautee
April 19th, 2010
2:46 pm
The KING OF RESEARCH said this:
“Sautee . . . it’s not my fault that you don’t watch enough NBA basketball to know this trend.”
You freakin’ arrogant prick! You have NO IDEA how much basketball I have or have not watched, but because I have the unmitigated gall to challenge your statement, you are ready to suggest that my “lack of watching” is the cause of my egregious error. BTW, I’m 60 and have been following the NBA since I was 8.
And yes, for years the “accepted norm” was that coaches shortened their benches in the playoffs. But for the last few years, I’ve noticed subtle changes in that trend. That’s why I showed you the Finals results, which DID make my point.
Last night’s games seem to bear me out. But God forbid I should challenge the GREAT KING OF BLOG RESEARCH with my puny view.
And it was laughable that you somehow thought I was attacking Woodson and his rotations by questioning your statement. No, northcyde, I was attacking YOU and your arrogance. That very arrogance led to you ASSUMING that I was after Woodson. I was not.
Stop with the condescension. You have an opinion, like all of us. But no more.
You weaken your good points (and you DO have some) when you act like your knowledge is superior to anyone else’s.
JeJe
April 19th, 2010
2:47 pm
“He worked under Larry Brown and was part of the 2004 Pistons championship team. We thought to ourselves “hey, this guy may be the next Red Auerbach!” Then in the draft, we selected Josh Childress over Andre Iguodala, drafted Josh Smith (who in our minds was an absolute steal) and also drafted two great players in Royal Ivey and Donta Smith. Then in 05′, we drafted Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams. A lot of people criticized us for making that move, but look how well Marvin has turned out for this team. He’s become a huge factor in our success. In 2006, we drafted Shelden Williams over Brandon Roy because we thought Shelden was the better player, and we thought having more role players on our team would be better than having true leaders. So, since we didn’t draft a shooting guard, I asked Billy [Knight-mare] why don’t we trade two unprotected first round picks to the Phoenix Suns for a 3-tier role player named, Joe Johnson?
We thought Joe had a lot of potential, and in our eyes ”
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I almost died reading that first paragraph
Wha?
April 19th, 2010
2:48 pm
You think that Boris Diaw was an “absolute Bust”? The man was picked at #21. He’s done damned well for that pick. Just because Woody didnt know how to use him don’t make him a bust
Rick Sund
April 19th, 2010
3:04 pm
Did you hear my boss? I agree with everything he said we had some GREAT drafts and we TURNED Shelden Williams into Mike “the defensive architect” Bibby. As I told you our STANDARD for being ELITE is the REGULAR SEASON not the PLAYOFFS. That’s why he said “It’s not easy to win 53 GAMES and we want to be ELITE for many years to come” My boss said it best we STAYED THE COURSE and did not get IMPATIENT. It’s not about CHAMPIONSHIPS and if any fans thinks it is then they aren’t REAL FANS!
Late Merin
April 19th, 2010
3:07 pm
I’m new around these parts. Judging from the comments on here today, I guess the Hawks must have lost Game 1 in a blowout, right?
Fresh
April 19th, 2010
3:11 pm
Late Merin,
Naw, we just have alot of retards such as JeJe that only purpose in life is to patrol the Hawks blog and talk absolute BS all day.
hawks_4_life
April 19th, 2010
3:13 pm
Late Merin
Cosigned!!!
northcyde
April 19th, 2010
3:21 pm
Sautee . . if you’re going to do a little “online sparring” with people, you need to be able to keep your composure a little bit better. I knew exactly what would push your button, and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Don’t let that happen again.
My points are usually backed up by facts. So if being an “arrogant prick” means that I state the facts, so be it. Like I said . . . keep an eye on those teams that went “10 deep” in Game 1, and see if they’ll continue to do that throughout the rest of the playoffs.
Hopefully, Woody will resist the urge to go 10 deep, and keep with his 8 man rotation ( while playing the other 2 guys spot minutes at best ). The playoffs are not the time to be playing scrub players. If they can’t play, or aren’t producing . . keep them off the floor.
RODNEY KING
April 19th, 2010
3:29 pm
CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!!GEEZ WE ARE WINNING~!!!!!!
hawks_4_life
April 19th, 2010
3:31 pm
I think people sometimes forget what it means to be a fan, and not an armchair player/coach/gm/owner!!!!!!
GO HAWKS!!
BRING IT ON HOME
Mike is Back
April 19th, 2010
3:47 pm
Fresh, good point…guys like JeJe are just crow stuffed regulars operating under another name. That’s cool though…the reality is…that we are all Hawks fans. Why else would someone dedicate so much time to a Hawks blog. lol
For Real
April 19th, 2010
3:50 pm
Woody please use this starting line-up against the Magic and Cavs:
Joe – 6′7″
Marvin – 6′10″
Josh – 6′9″
Al – 6′10″
ZaZa – 7′0
LouFan
April 19th, 2010
3:57 pm
These blogs are quite entertaining to say the least.
@south ga boy
I love your optimism and touch of reality.
I agree that the Hawks are at a crossroads this year and much is expected of them. Being a fan of the Hawks all my life, I have enjoyed the ups and downs. From the times of Mookie, Matumbo, Steve, and Dominique…. To the 13 win season. I have seen the ups and downs. Everything takes time though, and hopefully this year we break through.
Unfortunately, championships are important to any organization… Yet, I would be grateful if the make it to the ECF. If we beat a top seed team we can finally start earning the respect we deserve and keep going to new levels. We have a lot of immigrants to the state… I mean from other States… And we win over these fans and pack the stadium by winning playoff games. It has to be a progression.
I, as many fans, hope that we can get that satisfaction this year. Maybe not Finals, or a championship… But a first time ECF for the Hawks. We are behind you Hawks, but you have something to prove! I will always be a Hawks fan, but there is nothing wrong with some a** kicking in the process.
GO HAWKS!
Tale of Woe
April 19th, 2010
3:59 pm
Read between the lines – Woody is a goner unless we get to the conference finals
Tony from Stone Mountain
April 19th, 2010
4:00 pm
I think “For Real” added some inches to some players. Let me check. I’ll be back.
kwooden1
April 19th, 2010
4:09 pm
I think the HAWKS ownership hasn’t made any bold moves because they’re not willing to spend a lot of money and they’re currently getting positive results. We can’t expect to be as good as Orlando or Cleveland without what they had, #1 PICKS! AND Very Good ones at that! I don’t know how anyone can argue with moving up from the 4th spot to the 3rd spot, especially with the 1st and 2nd spots being Orlando and Cleveland. I’m a fan like everyone else and I would like for the team to just WIN, but Cleveland and Orlando are also under the microscope. Clearly ownership can’t or won’t spend the type of money that Orlando and Cleveland did so we’re going to have to live with that. Looking at how ownership has been operating, I expect for them to offer JJ a close to Max contract and re-sign Woody. The rest of the summer is anyone’s guess. I never expected Golden State to make the trade for Crawford, so I’m not going to speculate on any trades at this point.
GO HAWKS!!!
Grandad
April 19th, 2010
4:15 pm
Michael Cunningham:
I salute you sir.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 19th, 2010
4:28 pm
Gearon is the only Hawks owner I like. At least he always comes across as someone who cares about the product on the floor. All we know about the other owners is that they are strapped for cash.
Great stuff MC.
Samuel
April 19th, 2010
4:32 pm
Obviously, we didn’t get swept in the first round. So what does he see as a good enough improvement? What if we sweep the first round. Is that good enough. What if we sweep then loose in 6 to Orlando. Is that good enough?
Bottom line is, is there a coach out there who can “Guarantee” that they can take us farther than Woody has. If not, why risk going backwards?
I’m sick of talking about what ifs as far as players are concerned. Where is Chris Paul now? I’d rather have JJ, Jamal and Bibby than Chris Paul and a couple of scrubbs which is what we likely would have if we had Paul. We can’t pay everybody. I like our back court. It’s the Center position that we need to upgrade to go to the next level.
We should sweep MKE if we keep running our offense through Josh on the right blocks, not Horford. Horford is not ready for that.
MC, why keep dwelling on the “Offense” questions. We’re 4th in the league in offense. What more do you want? Clyde, you been hanging out with the big shots? Dude is on some serious sh_t, comparing us to the Celtics. Again, I put nothing past anybody who would “fix” their mouth to make a statement like that.
JJ>CP3
Woody=COY
Show me state
April 19th, 2010
4:38 pm
Great article MC…..of course i’m always representing da Hawks and their progression back here in da “Show me State”….i’m trying to win over Hawks fans here…..after all da Hawks are originally from here and we don’t have a NBA team….i think i’m da biggest Atlanta fan here….it’s cool tho…Hawks fan for life and Go Hawks!!!!!!
northcyde
April 19th, 2010
4:40 pm
I wonder who is going to commit the first REAL hard foul in this series?
My money is on Kurt Thomas. And it’ll probably come tomorrow night.
hawks_4_life
April 19th, 2010
4:44 pm
hopefully its on marvin so we dont miss a beat
lewis
April 19th, 2010
4:46 pm
I hope Joe Smith takes it upon himself to teach Al Horford how to position himself against bigger players. If were going to remain small as a team, someone’s gotta show Al and Josh how to be more dominant on the boards and on D against bigger players.
Hawk n the Ham
April 19th, 2010
4:55 pm
Cavs & Bulls game is going to be funny to watch tonight, after all the comments Noah has said about how the city of Cleveland sucks.
heartofdarkness
April 19th, 2010
5:40 pm
After watching the Magic and Bobcats last night, if the officiating is as indifferent to pushing, holding, slapping and elbowing as it was last night, the Hawks have no answer for the big guy from Orlando. He is an awesome presence, even though every play he is involved in is arguably an infraction. But in an unrefereed game, size and strength receives the advantage. If it continues, bet with the league and take Van Gundy’s boys.
RLP
April 19th, 2010
5:40 pm
I think the team with most pressure to win is the Cavaliers. Imagine having “The King” and blowing it again this year. Is Noah pulling a Bibby for the Bulls?
Go Hawks.
O'Brien
April 19th, 2010
5:42 pm
Samuel,
Its easy to look back in hind sight, and its easy to play the game of what ifs (I’ve played a few myself), although that does not change anything.
You said JJ > CP3. I think JJ is the 3rd best SG in the league, but I also think CP3 is a top 3 PG in the league. So to me, they are equal when you rank them at their positions. But who does JJ make better? And compare that to how Paul makes his teamates (look what he did for Chandler and David West) better.
Ultimately though, I think we’re comparing apples and oranges.
You also said if we had CP3 we would have had some scrubs. Really? Because we could have drafted CP3 the same offseason when JJ signed with us, and we already had Josh Smith and Childress. So the only difference if we had drafted CP3 was we would not have Horford and Crawford.
So you’re telling me that a team constructed around of Josh Smith, CP3, JJ, Childress and ZaZa are scrubs? I disagree.
And you say we’re top 4 in offense. But I think you have to look deeper than the numbers. We have too many scoring droughts (especially in the fourth).
For the record, I dont think Woody is COY, but I am ok with bringing him back. I just want more flexibility from him, and an offensive coordinator.
Sautee
April 19th, 2010
5:52 pm
The KING OF REASEARCH deigned to say this:
“Sautee . . if you’re going to do a little “online sparring” with people, you need to be able to keep your composure a little bit better. I knew exactly what would push your button, and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Don’t let that happen again.”
“My points are usually backed up by facts. So if being an “arrogant prick” means that I state the facts, so be it.”
No northcyde, the reason you are an arrogant prick is because you talk down to those who disagree with you. And because you try to tell others how they should feel.
And because you think you have claimed some mythic blog territory. That’s as loony as Truth-serum’s conspiracy theories.
But hey, I’m sure it’s good to be King.
LouFan
April 19th, 2010
6:07 pm
Well I hope THE KING OF RESEARCH can win a blog championship because why do they call him a king without one?
For slow people… That is a hit on Lebron.
northcyde
April 19th, 2010
6:15 pm
Believe it or not Samuel . . . because of Teague’s great regular season finale, I think we ended up with the 2nd best offensive rating in the league.
Meanwhile . . . the defense was 13th.
When this team plays defense, it fuels the offense. So if we go through a tough 4th quarter, they have to make sure that they stop people on the other end from scoring.
I just want the Hawks to take care of business any way possible tomorrow night . . . because Game 3 in Milwaukee will be BANANAS!!!
sam'l
April 19th, 2010
6:17 pm
Somewhere buried in what I just read is a telling point. Dwight Howard should have fouled out of last night’s game. He had 5 fouls and then he smashed a Bobcat in the head (Wallace?…whoever he was he made a spectacular rebound)….A few minutes later Howard fouled someone else…and he hung around to make a killer putback dunk .and help sew up the game.
This could be a problem ……
TigerWoods
April 19th, 2010
6:20 pm
DeepDiver, in my response to Obrien, i was talking starters. We did nothing relative to our starters, other than retain old Bibby, and underachieving Marvin. Don’t also get me started on Al. He is NOT, i repeat NOT a center. He is too small. You talk Jamal, he is out so called bench.
i like Hawks, but you can not teach height. This team as currently made up, has zero chance winning a series against Orlando. i give them one game max. It has nothing to do with coach. It has to do with personnel. Orlando has two legit centers. What do Hawks have? Two legit power forwards. Not to mention Orlando point guard will run circles around us.
That is ok we have sixth freaking man award who plays ZERO defense. Good for us. Hubie or Phil could not do any better than current Hawks coach. It is all about talent in this league. Look what happened when Lakers only had the great Kobe, nothing. Then they get Gasol and others, and they become better over night. Same coach was there.
Any way, enough teaching you kids for one day. have to rest for my 18 holes for tomorrow.
O'Brien
April 19th, 2010
6:28 pm
northcyde,
It looks like the Blazers are working on an extension for Camby. It is reported to be 2 years, $21 million guaranteed.
If thats true, thats way out of the Hawks budget anyway. Haywood will probably be out of our budget too.
I hope Sund finds another deal like BK did with ZaZa.
sam'l
April 19th, 2010
6:29 pm
Gearon must know something we don’t. How can you lose a hundred million dollars and not have your first thought be….”God! I just lost a hundred million dollars!”
O'Brien
April 19th, 2010
6:45 pm
From nba.com,
“For a veteran like Smith, who was already in the NBA when many of his Atlanta Hawks teammates and most of the Bucks were still formulating their hoop dreams, seeing a rookie glide through a defense without so much as slight bump off course was a shock to his old school sensibilities.
Smith doesn’t need a Hot Tub Time Machine to remember the way things are supposed to be done in the playoffs. Those lanes that open up to the basket for small guards are supposed to be closed with a solid lick from a bigger player the closer said guard gets to the basket.”
I’m glad to see Joe Smith speaking up. Hopefully his teamates are paying attention, because this team does not do a good job of giving hard fouls…
Big Ray
April 19th, 2010
6:54 pm
I agree with Ree Roe . It’s good to see Gearon speak out more. The man who owns the team (in large part, at least) sees the game like a fan because he is a fan, which is always good.
I find it very interesting that what he had to say about coaching, players, and how this team plays….is pretty much the same as what many have been saying here all this time. Good thing he doesn’t post here, though (that we know of). He might get told that his views aren’t researched enough, LOL.
I belive Gearon just threw something out there as an example when he said “if we get swept in the first round.” That would be a more drastic example. I don’t see a problem with waiting to see if a coach can help a team go further in the postseason than it did last year. The Heat pushed us to 7 games last year. We weren’t completely healthy. If a weaker Bucks team can push a healthier Hawks team to 7 games, that is NOT an improvement, and something must be looked at. It can’t just be the coach, though. You have to look at the total picture. Of course, that does not mean that the coach isn’t the one who stands the most chance of taking the fall. Historically, it’s the coach who does take the fall most often.
Having said that, I don’t see it happening. The Bucks shouldn’t be able to push us far, and I don’t believe we will let them.
The second round is where the judgment continues. If we get swept like we did last year….again, something has to be looked at. If we win one game and lose 4, I’d say we still have to look seriously at something. Winning two games is the beginning of a true improvement in my mind. Again, this team is healthy, save for JJ’s thumb.
While I hate to say it, even JJ’s thumb can’t be used as an excuse. Nobody is making excuses for Kobe’s finger.
Having the 4th best offense or whatever is all well and fine during the regular season. It means next to nothing in the playoffs when your consistent execution is everything, and your defense is the backbone of what you do. Ask teams like Phoenix and Dallas how far those wonderful offenses have taken them in the playoffs in the last decade.
Looking forward to game 2, and hopefully another beatdown with less meltdown in the second half. Get at ‘em, Hawks!
TigerWoods
April 19th, 2010
6:57 pm
obrien, good point on your last comment. You are finally redeeming yourself. yes i know i was goina sleep, but…
yes – old man Smith looks at that Buddha Marvin, the pint sized Al, and sees something. He sees lack of toughness. Hawks are soft. Soft inside, soft outside. Bibby and Jamal are soft. Marvin is soft. Crack some heads, if we don’t beat up BJ, how we goina play vs. Howard. No hope, but at least, do as cats did yesterday. Beat up Howard, break his arm if you have to.
northcyde
April 19th, 2010
7:05 pm
Wow @ Camby potentially signing a deal like that . . . at his age. But that shows you how desperate teams are to retain or obtain a quality center.
It also makes you wonder what the market for Horford will look like in 2011 . . IF . . a new collective bargaining agreement is signed by then.
Say Horford averages 15 ppg and 10 rebs . . and makes another All-Star team. There is no telling what teams will offer him . . and what we’re potentially forced to match.
RODNEY KING-Emmit Till
April 19th, 2010
7:08 pm
Need to sign Travis Outlaw and Draft Gordon Heyward. Get rid of Mo since he’s opting out. Sign Kyrylo Fesenko or Bendan Haywood. If all else fails, get Drew Gooden.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pae5GLy-9Zc&playnext_from=TL&videos=ba8vvndf-Ag
Big Ray
April 19th, 2010
7:09 pm
Loufan ,
Too funny! Good one….
Sautee ,
Blog royalty status is hard to attain. I’m still only a blog court jester, myself. Maybe if I work hard on my research skills, I can rise to the position of Duke. Or maybe I’ll just bribe the blog Catholic church into a higher position. Worked well in the middle ages, and they didn’t even have the internet then….
And you should know by now not to get too tangled up in online sparring with internet ninjas. They know how to push your all the internet buttons on your internet body and render you internet paralyzed. With their special internet ninja vision, they can see right through your computer screen and tell whether or not you are actually upset, or if you’re actually just messing with them, and pushing their internet buttons.
I don’t suppose that possibility had ever occurred to an internet ninja versed in the skills of online sparring, something I just don’t have. Oh well, I guess I’ll just have to settle for knowing you personally, and your penchant for deviant and mischievous machinations.
Anyway, just my unresearched guess….
Blog Court Jester…over and out…
ryan
April 19th, 2010
7:12 pm
I hope that if Joe Johnson leaves the Hawks look at sign and trade deal for like D. Wade or Chris Bosh.
hawks_4_life
April 19th, 2010
7:15 pm
ryan
how will bosh fit on this team?
Big Ray
April 19th, 2010
7:18 pm
Gearon says they don’t make decisions based on payroll. Perhaps that means we need not worry about what contract Horford could command.
Besides, we must re-sign Joe, no matter the cost. Is there an echo in here?
The Truth
April 19th, 2010
7:26 pm
I see the blog is in rare form today. Nice job MC. The delivery of real facts will always beat out speculations and demagoguery. Maybe the Michael Gearon interview will serve as a reset switch for some old arguments that never seem to go away on this blog. Now we have heard it from the source.
TigerWoods
April 19th, 2010
7:29 pm
Nothcyde, my friend, Al is NOT a center. I like you
He will not get the money Camby at 45 gets. Trust me on that.
lewis
April 19th, 2010
7:33 pm
Al could learn a thing or two from his old pal Joakim Noah. That said, it doesn’t get much better than Al, the guy is a winner. He won in college and he’s willing to learn to play out of position to do the same in the NBA. 16/11 next year i’m callin it.
Big Ray
April 19th, 2010
7:38 pm
To be honest, I’m not sure how DWade would fit on this team. Not saying he couldn’t, just wondering about the chemistry and what not.
Bosh is a different matter. Initially I’d say you have to let Josh go. The reason being, it can’t be Horford. Somebody has to play center, and between Josh, Bosh, and Horford….it’s Horford. The problem with that is that losing Josh means losing a whopping dose of defense.
So, the only other way to do it is to kick Marvin to the bench or trade him away, take your chances with Josh at the 3, and either find a way to keep him from increasing his jumpshot attempts, or help him develop a more reliable jumpshot (a serious shooting coach who can make a difference, Mark Price apparently isn’t guy).
Still, Josh defending at the 3 and not the 4 is not what I prefer, but I’m neither coach nor GM. Nor blog royalty for that matter…..LOL…
Big Ray
April 19th, 2010
7:40 pm
Lewis,
I’ll second that.
The Truth,
Well said.
O'Brien
April 19th, 2010
7:44 pm
northcyde,
Hawks could run into financial problems in 2011-2012. Their only guaranteed contracts for 2011 are: Josh at $12.4 mil, Marivn at $7.5 mil, Bibby at $6.2 mil, and ZaZa at $4.75 mil. Thats $26.575 million already.
That does not include JJ’s max contract (assuming he resigns), and that does not include Crawford (assuming he resigns), plus Teague at $1.6 mil.
I think Sund and the ASG will have to get creative.
Ray,
I am just a peasant who consistently passes through the blog court…
ryan
April 19th, 2010
7:47 pm
Hawks 4 life i’m just saying the Hawks need a post player and CB4 could be that guy.
hawks_4_life
April 19th, 2010
7:53 pm
ryan
true they are not overly refined in the post but you have to give to get and will bosh demand alot of cash this summer, thats going to be rough.
O'Brien
April 19th, 2010
8:09 pm
Speaking of money, I saw this on the Thrashers blog, which was from an interview with Bruce Levenson. He was asked about the ongoing litigation, which he said has not impacted their operations.
However, the interesting comment to me was he said
“We have been ideally looking for an investor to come in and play a role in the Atlanta Thrashers – ideally a local investor who would give us more financial muscle, if you will, in this community. We haven’t found that person yet but we are continuing to look.”
So I’m wondering, would they also need a local investor for the Hawks? Where’s our Texas car salesman? He just won a bunch of money from Time Warner…
Blast
April 19th, 2010
8:13 pm
Playoffs already getting testy! Hard fouls, ejections, suspensions, trash talking all over the place, and it’s only the first round. I love it! So far, Hawks/Bucks and LA/Thunder are still playing nice.
I love Joakim Noah. Maybe because he is a rookie, he’s one player that sure speaks his mind. He called out leBron on their dancing, he called KG a dirty player, he trashed the city of Celeveland…Go, Noah!
Nice article, Mr. Michael.
hawks_4_life
April 19th, 2010
8:20 pm
Blast
Noah is not a rookie….lol
Blast
April 19th, 2010
8:21 pm
Bulls are not scoring or stopping anyone. Bad recipe for disaster.
Blast
April 19th, 2010
8:22 pm
My bad! Yeah he came in with Horford!
Astro Joe
April 19th, 2010
8:34 pm
Horford’s extension will most likely be under the conditions of the next CBA, so it is hard to speculate about any team’s payroll situation without knowing the structure on the new deal between union and owneship. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it as there are plenty of temas that have a mix of current CBA big contracts and young guys deserving of raises in the post-CBA world. Guys with NBA pay grade mush higher than our little blog-status will figure that stuff out.
Jennings made a lot of contested long jumpers the other day. Sure, he had some drives, but dude was nailing long shots that I would love to see him take for the remainder of the series. Too bad I missed the game blog that night, I would have loved to read the reaction when Woody inserted Teague as the designated quick-guard-stopper.
Hawk n the Ham
April 19th, 2010
8:39 pm
If Noah really wants to become a villain, he needs to put one of those ‘level 2′ flagrant fouls on Lebron tonight.
Here’s to hoping!!
Michael Cunningham
April 19th, 2010
8:45 pm
@ samuel: “MC, why keep dwelling on the “Offense” questions. We’re 4th in the league in offense.”
actually, Gearon brought up the offense unsolicited earlier in the interview and i just followed up on it. not sure if you are a regular reader of the blog, but i’ve often said the bottom-line numbers of the offense are good so the burden of proof is on those who say it’s awful. i have said i think the offense could be more diverse in fourth quarters. that’s not because the Isos aren’t ever effective but because of the psychological and emotional effect on the other four guys when they don’t work. i think Gearon is right that the Hawks generally are better when they share the ball.
Hawk n the Ham
April 19th, 2010
8:48 pm
Flip is doing his thing!
Blast
April 19th, 2010
8:49 pm
Nice to see Flip playing well for Bulls in playoffs.
Blast
April 19th, 2010
9:01 pm
Reggie Miller is wrong. Bulls should not slow it down. They are not good enough to play Cavs in a slow, half court game. Bulls are better off playing a high-paced, scrambling, helter sketter game.
Samuel
April 19th, 2010
9:03 pm
MC,
I was here when you weren’t even thought of, my friend. I haven’t posted much since Cuz left but i’ve been checking you out. I’m a teacher and coach so I do most of my posting during the summer.You’re doing a pretty good job. I have noticed that you haven’t bashed Woody’s offense as much as most here. Yes, I think everyone agrees that the offense works better when “JJ” passes the ball sooner, however, numbers don’t lie. You said that right on.
JuneBaby
April 19th, 2010
9:09 pm
if management says they lost 100 million dollars, they are probably exagerating. their payroll is nowhere close to 100 mill per year, add nba tv deal, deals with sportsouth, radio, arena rights, ticket sales, i can’t see the loss. if you include the thrashers in on the deal, maybe. but they should be looked at separately from the hawks. all i’m saying is that i don’t see that kind of a loss.
Michael Cunningham
April 19th, 2010
9:09 pm
@Samuel: dude, why the attitude? you asked a question, i answered it and gave you a bit of background. wasn’t trying to question your commenter cred, haha . . .
RODNEY KING-Emmit Till
April 19th, 2010
9:24 pm
We get to see Fesenko in action tonight with Okur lost to injury. This kid will be in Atlanta next season. #Takenotes
JuneBaby
April 19th, 2010
9:25 pm
add to those revenus sources, advertising, merchandise sales, and playoff revenues. it doesn’t add up.
Samuel
April 19th, 2010
9:40 pm
Attitude? If that’s what you want to call it. So what’s your “official” opinion on Woody. You think he has earned an extension?
Michael Gearon
April 19th, 2010
9:58 pm
Let me also remind you all that Marvin was taken before Chris Paul. How can you fans claim this was a bad move? Paul makes MUCH more money than Marvin and this year was INJURED for most of the year. Marvin therefore is the better player.
We are working to keep this core together for years to come. We have offered Mario West a 4 year/20 million dollar extension, fully believing he is the missing piece to the championship. Randolph Morris will be offered the $80 million/6 year max, as he is a big body to use.
GO HAWKS
Jody
April 19th, 2010
10:03 pm
I’m really into the playoffs right now, but I must admit, after hearing Mr. Gearon’s comments, I’m interested to see what is (or what’s not) done to improve this team going forward. I could be wrong, but he is the only person in either management or ownership whose mentioned winning a title as a legitimate goal.
Samuel
April 19th, 2010
10:16 pm
MC,
If he brought the offense question “unsolicited” why didn’t you post that? Otherwise, you look like all the other Woody haters around here. I think it’s rather comical that Gearon said they judged a performance by Championships. That’s funny.
Bird3X>JJ
McHale3X>Josh
Parish3X>Horford
DJ3X>Bibby
Walton3X>ZaZa
Did you laugh in his face when he said that or did you “nod yo head”?
JeJe
April 19th, 2010
10:28 pm
“I’m interested to see what is (or what’s not) done to improve this team going forward’
You already know what will happen: we will KEEP THE SAME DAMN STARTING LINEUP and sign different scrub bigs to round out the bench
JeJe
April 19th, 2010
10:31 pm
Shaq and Ilgy have played a combined 28 min. Horford would’ve played 45 minutes and ZaZa 3 tonight
drmaryb
April 19th, 2010
10:41 pm
Mr. Gearon
I am enjoying all the passion on this blog today. I, for one am waiting to hear what
Mr. Blue-Ray
(Clear – Concise – On Point, Picture-Perfect & Mega-Pixels).
& Those are just a few of my FAVORITE things – Has to say?
In the meantime, You guys are cracking me up with ALL the passion on
Mr. Michael Cunningham’s FANTASTIC blog!!!!
Regardless if what anyone says on here? We ALL have one-thing in common:
We just flat-out L O V E our Hawks!.
LouFan
April 19th, 2010
10:43 pm
Jeje… Shaq was in foul trouble. They had no choice.
As far as the Bulls, I love their spirit. I agree with some of the bloggers that Al needs to take lessons from Noah. That guy is a FIGHTER! All they did was drive to the basket… Oh what a wet dream it would be if the Hawks played like that for 48 minutes. Unstoppable. too bad they do not have enough talent… probably kicking themselves now for trading Salmons lol.
LouFan
April 19th, 2010
10:46 pm
Too much talent comment is linked to the bulls btw…
LouFan
April 19th, 2010
10:47 pm
too little* jesus
Jody
April 19th, 2010
10:50 pm
JeJe,
You and I both know that a failure to be honest and objective on the part of management and ownership about this team and what it needs to become a title winning team will be a fatal error. The fanbase isn’t stupid. I believe alot of folks in Atlanta and in the state of Georgia who may not currently be avid Hawks fans and ready to get behind this team. However, the commitment to winning a title and not just being “competitive” has to be there. Even if means making moves that some fans don’t like initially (Jamal Crawford for example). If you’re going to talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk.
jesus shuttlesworth
April 19th, 2010
10:54 pm
watching the hawks play is like watching the movie TITANIC. you know how its going to end.
hawks win against the bucs in 6 games. lose to orlando in 4 games.
resign jj. resign woodys. same ol’ sh!t for the 2010-2011 season. SIGH
Donkey Kong
April 19th, 2010
10:55 pm
Fesenko with the hammer! #freeagentthissummer
jesus shuttlesworth
April 19th, 2010
11:00 pm
atlanta spirit group has no real desire to field a championship team. the hawks spend the bare minimum and thru profit sharing, at tv rights, each team still pulls down some loot at the end of the year. hawks also serves as a right off for these guys, since the franchise is losin’ money.
orlando, clev, and lakers, to name a few, are over the salary cap, because they are committed to winning. hawks wouldn’t dare go 3mill over the cap to field a true championship team. they still would be in the same boat.
3mil over the cap, with a championshipesque team means a packed house for 41 games, concessions, parking, jersey sales. you would make up that 3mil over the cap by allstar break.
Christ the King
April 19th, 2010
11:03 pm
Step off shuttlesworth. There ain’t enough room for the both of us! We will Sign JJ, Outlaw, and Fesenko this summer wnd win the the title next season.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 19th, 2010
11:33 pm
Damn, a lot of bleef (blog beef) on the blog today. Keep that sh-t on wax fellas.
BirdDawg
April 19th, 2010
11:33 pm
I’m confused. Al Horford averaged 14 points and 10 rebs a game, ranked second on the team in blocked shots, was named an All-Star center second behind the best center in the NBA, but yet people still say he’s not a real center….why?
Najeh Davenpoop
April 19th, 2010
11:35 pm
It’s too bad for Chicago. They played their azzes off today and still lost. They are more or less in the same boat as the Hawks, and pretty much every team except the Lakers and maybe the Magic — it doesn’t really matter how hard they play, the Cavs are just too talented to lose in a series to them.
BirdDawg
April 19th, 2010
11:40 pm
No doubt, Najeh. And also, Lebron is too much of a driving force to let them lose. People underestimate the value of having a superstar that is also a fierce competitor. He forces everyone else to raise the level of their play.
Big Ray
April 19th, 2010
11:46 pm
The offense does speak for itself, and so does 53 games.
Now show me how that has translated in the playoffs. Something tells me the stats are going to be a little different. I’d research it, but you can’t snatch the crown from the king without him being pi$$ed about it, so maybe he will deign to do it for us.
Al Horford once again can’t play defense…which is why he blocked 5 shots in game one. The rebuttal/explanation for this will be amusing…Saying he’s not a center is not the same as saying he can’t play defense. The first is arguable but true. The second is a bold-faced haterade drinking lie.
I’d love to have Camby on a 3 year contract…about TWO YEARS ago. We never get guys when they can make the most difference for us. Case in point, Joe Smith. He was hitting long jumpers and busting post moves for Cleveland last year . In the meantime, we missed another one…
Sure glad we didn’t get Rasheed Wallace. All he does these days is shoot 3s and look like he’s never been to a barber shop.
Bill Simmons had this to say:
“Sports are all about the highs and lows. If you don’t get swept up in them, you become detached, and eventually you won’t care as much.”
I agree with that sentiment. You won’t care as much. Or you’ll come to the conclusion that all the fans around you are irrational and don’t know how to feel or think…
The Bulls time is coming back around, depending on how free agency goes this summer.
I hope Bill Simmons is wrong about the Hawks, but not for all the reasons you might expect…
Michael Cunningham
April 19th, 2010
11:49 pm
@Samuel” “If he brought the offense question “unsolicited” why didn’t you post that? Otherwise, you look like all the other Woody haters around here.”
maybe for those looking too hard for haterism, but i notice only you and the always-reliable, sometimes-coherent Truth seem to be on that list. like i said, for the proper context you have to look at my entire body of work, not suddenly show up and make a conclusion ( a conclusion that turned out to be based on your wrong assumption, by the way). if you’ve been reading this blog all along as you claim, then you have no reasonable basis to label me a “Woody hater” (or lover for that matter). i have no agendas except getting at “the truth,” in quotes because there is no such thing as purely objective truth.
i do my best to cover Woody and the team fairly and dispassionately. ultimately it is up to the people i cover and readers to decide if i meet that goal. if you think i’m off, feel free to say so–certainly i am not above criticism. in fact i encourage you to do so, something else you know if you are a regular reader. just make sure your criticisms are reasonable and not a misrepresentation of my body of work. it makes for better discussion.
re: Woody’s extension, i’m the beat writer and its’ not my place to say whether he’s “earned” one or not. see the above paragraph about covering the team “fairly and dispassionately” and without an agenda. that’s also why when Gearon made the Celtics comparison, i didn’t laugh in his face. it’s his opinion and it’s not based on anything i know to be untrue, so i just put it out there and let smart readers like you decide what you think of it.
that reminds me: thanks for reading . . .
Antonio Gramsci
April 19th, 2010
11:57 pm
I actually was a Hawks fan during the Kevin Loughery/Bob Weiss/Lon Kreuger/Terry Stotts years–I sat in the Omni and watched Billy Paultz “man the paint.” I’ll take this team any day. Big ups, ‘tards!
Big Ray
April 20th, 2010
12:09 am
M Cunningham ,
That was truly one of the best replies from a beat writer I’ve ever seen. Too funny, and free of viciousness.
You’re all too right about the hater-seeker mentality. Oh well, that will earn us both a bucket of haterade over our heads, but what the hell…like water off a duck’s back.
Grandad
April 20th, 2010
12:29 am
Michael: Thank you for keeping us informed.
Grandad
April 20th, 2010
12:49 am
I’m perplexed @ Samuel:
Bird3X>JJ
McHale3X>Josh
Parish3X>Horford
DJ3X>Bibby
Walton3X>ZaZa
He fails to mention the ages & years of experience in the league when
the Celts. achieved these accomplishments, plus also failing to mention the relative youth of the Hawks, therfore rendering a comparitive invalid.
He also failed to mention:
KC[ncaa player/2][nba player/8][olmpc gld med/1][nba coach/2/]>Woody[0].
*Wdsn – asst. coach ring don’t count.
LouFan
April 20th, 2010
1:07 am
BirdDawg…. I believe those individuals are called *Haters*. They cannot stand that he adapted and made it happen instead of bit*hing and they wish the could be as fly as Al. Al Horford is the truth and I expect him to hit 16-17 next year by his improved post play and jump shots.
LouFan
April 20th, 2010
1:09 am
MC is hurting Samuel like the Hawks did to the Bucks in the first quarter….
As the famous Chris Tucker said in the movie Friday: “You got knocked the F*ck out!”
Najeh Davenpoop
April 20th, 2010
1:48 am
It’s pretty obvious, with a basic level of reading comprehension, that Gearon is not suggesting Joe/Josh/Al/Crawford is as good as Bird/McHale/Parish or ever will be; he’s just suggesting that the Hawks have multiple weapons like that Celtics team and you can’t key in on one player like you can with Wade on the Heat for example. I’m not old enough to have seen that Celtics team so I have no idea how good they really were, but I’ll take a guess that all of the Hawks’ core players don’t have to develop into Hall of Famers in order for the Hawks to become title contenders.
TigerWoods
April 20th, 2010
5:39 am
Najeh, trust me that Celtics team was a great team. in my lifetime, one of top three teams along with 80s Lakers, and Jordan’s Bulls. It is just not a good comparsion, even if his point is as you say, trying to compare the fact that Hawks have multiple weapons. The message gets lost when you compare Hawks to that team. Instead compare Hawks to Pistons that won a championship with comparable level talent (Ben Wallace and Hamilton and Price and ….)
Granddad, Bird and McHale were great from day 1. There is no one on Hawks that can compare. I am preplexed at your response to Samuel.
Point being, Hawks are soft. We need a Ben Wallace type. Again the Pistons comparison is valid. The truth is right on with his commentary. Al may be a good big forward, he is NOT a center. he will have to defend centers in next round, and then every one will be down on him and Coach wooden. That is not their fault. That is owner fault and Sund for not getting a true center when a true center was avail, and for BK who kept drafting forwards until he lost his job
Atticus
April 20th, 2010
6:56 am
This team does NOT have the mental makeup to beat Cleveland or Orlando whether it’s the coach or the players. No way. So each year we can make it the goal to win one round. Sorry…..its much better than it used to be that is for sure but that have to at least get to 2nd or it really doesn’t matter. I just don’t see it.
doc
April 20th, 2010
7:07 am
najeh, it was pretty awesome a thing of beauty to see those celts play team ball besides the point maybe their starting five all are hall of fame quality. hawks dont quite measure up to that but the emphasis seemed to be in the team part of basketball that falters when iso jj or jamal stalls the offense in the final quarter. that is what i read gearon was saying. with our hawks, everyone from the coach to the players change what works to what doesnt when things get close. they choke where the celts of old only upped the team pressure on the other team as the clock wore down. that emphasis on team made the other team choke instead because of the pressure. even in the final minute you didnt know where the final bullet was going to come from, even a team with larry bird on it. not true of our hawks that play team ball until the final quarter when the coach then puts the ball into the hands of the guy he wants to pull the trigger. to woody’s cred it worked ti get 53 wins with a healthy team during the year.
O'Brien
April 20th, 2010
7:33 am
From MC on ajc.com,
“When to switch, when to fight through picks, when to trap the ball handler—Hawks defenders must make all of these choices in an instant. That takes focus and concentration, two attributes that can diminish with fatigue.”
Hawks defense (and their offense) have struggled in the fourth quarter of some games. And I think fatigue is a big reason, because Woody has the tendency to play 4 of his starters the entire fourth quarter, so its no surprise to see their defense struggle down the stretch.
Its also no surprise to see our offense struggle down the stretch. And regardless of the overall numbers, there were probably 15 – 20 games where we scored 19 points or less in the fourth, and games where our defense gave up 25+ in the fourth.
I think if Woody used our (maligned) bench more effectively, our defense and offense would have improved. Speaking of bench, did you guys see the Gearon coment about how we had a “deep bench”? Our bench is ok, but I wouldn’t say it was deep…
I know this is the playoffs, and rotations get smaller, but fatigue is always something to keep an eye on.
Looking forward to the game tonight. Go Hawks.
LouFan
April 20th, 2010
8:20 am
Fatigue is not the issue Obrien. It is the lack of ball movement in the third and fourth quarter. If you have watched the games this year and look at the stats, you can planly see that the issue is JC and JJ playing ISO ball, instead of passing for easy shots. How is it that the Bulls can take Cleveland to the fourth with a close game? Ball movement and driving to the basket. The other team doesn’t shoot better, we just get soft on offense. We have the talent and youth to stuff it every possesion. When you settle for ISO jump shots… Expect to loose. ISO driving to the basket is fine… Draw the foul.
Grandad
April 20th, 2010
8:22 am
TigerWoods:
86 Celts Best ‘TEAM’ ever assembled.
My point was simple.
You still don’t compare teams[using data compiled over a career/team A]
while [team B] is still very young and in some cases just beginng a career. his data cited records accumulated(Celts/Championships x _),
whereas the Hawks data showed (champs. x 0) which is actually incomplete @ this time. I’m not argueing that the Hawks are as good are ever will be as good as the ’80’s Celts. However his theorem is invalid due to incomplete data.
On the other hand the hypothesis posed by Mr. Gearon is sound because he is simply using the 80’s Celts as a model by which he hopes to imulate.
Even though the Celts were extremely talented, they also possessed
chemistry & cohesion, being perfectly bonded in both understanding
& awareness fostering altruism to the highest degree.
Mr. Gearon stated that without a true superstar, he felt that was a
model, with which the Hawks should best follow.
Mr. TigerWoods…enjoy your day on the course.
JeJe
April 20th, 2010
8:25 am
JJ will be hogging the ball down the stretch of every game — no doubt about it. Wish J-Craw would get more touches
Michael Gearon
April 20th, 2010
8:30 am
Let me also remind you all that Marvin was taken before Chris Paul. How can you fans claim this was a bad move? Paul makes MUCH more money than Marvin and this year was INJURED for most of the year. Marvin therefore is the better player.
This team is full of LONG ATHLETIC players with PLENTY of upside.
We are working to keep this core together for years to come. We have offered Mario West a 4 year/20 million dollar extension, fully believing he is the missing piece to the championship. Randolph Morris will be offered the $80 million/6 year max, as he is a big body to use.
GO HAWKS
hawks_4_life
April 20th, 2010
8:37 am
WAY TO GO JOE……GOOD PUB FOR AN UNDERRATED PLAYER!!!!!!
http://espn.go.com/nba/preview?gameId=300420001
Grandad
April 20th, 2010
8:38 am
TigerWoods/Samuel/or anyone else for that matter!
One point I forgot to mention:
You did not bring up nor did Samuel!
K.C. Jones v. Wdsn.
Wdsn. – You cannot use the argument that Wdsn was good from day 1,
then turn around and try to use the same argument that he has developed [grown with] the team over the years.
If Bird, et al, can be good from day 1, we should be able to use that
same premis and state that so should Wdsn.
Therefore Wdsn is not a good coach but only has a good record because
his players improved [organic growth/*Ken Strickland] over the years
due to experience and ageing. Therefore he was only a caretaker along for the ride and a real Coach (Such as K.C. Jones might have been)
may or may not have brought the Hawks to elite status by now.
Just supposin’ of course.
JeJe
April 20th, 2010
8:52 am
“”I don’t think Joe is really into all that,” Woodson said. “Joe just wants to win and play well. And he’s done that for our ballclub. Everything else will take care of itself.”
Wtf does “everything else will take care of itself” mean? Woody just throws out words and phrases he hardly knows.
JOE LEAD US TO THE FINALS AND DON’T GET HURT
O'Brien
April 20th, 2010
9:09 am
From the espn.com article,
“Joe Johnson,” Woodson added, “is the truth.”
Oh oh. Somewhere in Boston, Paul Pierce is seething lol.
i_am_soulstar
April 20th, 2010
9:09 am
Nice read MC. Sounds like Woody’s job is based on our playoff performance, although i’m sure there was never any doubt about that.
I think Joe’ll be back too, even if it doesnj’t happen this year, these guys are too close to something special.
Samuel
April 20th, 2010
9:12 am
MC,
re: Woody’s extension, i’m the beat writer and its’ not my place to say whether he’s “earned” one or not.
Why not. You are free to say anything else you want to say aren’t you? What’s so difficult about letting us know where you stand on that question?
Samuel
April 20th, 2010
9:30 am
Grandad,
Let me put it a little clearer to you.
JJ will “never” be as good as Bird
Josh will “never” be as good as McHale
Al will never be as good as Parish
Bibby will never be as good as DJ
ZaZa will never be as good as Walton
Greg Kite>ZaZa
So what does age have to do with it?
You’re probably right about KC vs Woody but then again, Woody doesn’t have a whole team full of hall of Famers to work with either.
Hawk n the Ham
April 20th, 2010
9:31 am
Samuel, let it go dude. Like someone already said,
“You got knocked the F#<K OUT!!!!"
newkid
April 20th, 2010
9:37 am
The Fesenko call some of you cats are making is interesting. At 7′1″ and carrying 300 lbs on his young frame with some degree of mobility, please tell us more about why you think Sund should pursue the free agent this summer.
hawks_4_life
April 20th, 2010
9:37 am
MAN I THOUGHT THIS WAS A BLOG FOR PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIKE THE HAWKS!!!!
doc
April 20th, 2010
9:48 am
samuel, what is wrong with his choosing not to declare what his thoughts are? from the get go MC made it clear he would not editorialize at ay time and just call it like it is a best he can noting that “truth” does have its blond spots as he referenced to you above. go back to his introductory blog, with that said, the guy has done a good job or maybe a great job. why do you think MC has to answer to you?
samuel, he aint cuz. that time is done and over. maybe you were spoiled to have your actual cousin writing on a subject you hold dear to your heart, no? and, just dont take it personal which it seems like you are doing as you continue the argument. he treats us all fairly in the beat down if he wants to. heh heh, the guy has a sword in his hand not a laptop, sometimes.
terrell
April 20th, 2010
9:53 am
Flip Murray was a Hawk for 1 year, and some of you guys act as if he was drafted as a Hawk, and played 9 or 10 years in Atlanta. lol! This cat has played for nearly every freakin team in the league. Why does he get still get so much love around here? I just dont get it. I hope yall cheer for Mo Evans when he’s wearing a different uniform next year. After all, he’s been here longer than Flip was.
Mike is Back
April 20th, 2010
10:16 am
Samuel, Doc and guys are right. MC, is bring his usually…it says a lot about the blog…when you get the top brass to come in and give his assessment during the playoff…god knows you don’t want to get it FROM ESPN, or TNT. I think that was more of the focal point of the content…than your petty argument about the offense. YO BOY IS DOING HIS THING…U ON TOP RIGHT NOW DAWG…however, don’t get to jazzy…who else is going to get us this timely information about the Hawks…get over it brooooooooo.
KICK SOME ASSSSSSSSS HAWKS…LET THE DEER KNOW WHATZUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grandad
April 20th, 2010
10:16 am
Samuel:
Let me make it a little more clear.
I’m not argueing the relative ability of the 80s Celts.
I’m saying two things flat out:
1. You cannot see into the future.
*[Joe, Josh, Al]
2. You cannot prove a point with incomplete data.
* Hawks careers have not yet run their cycle.
Those two points you cannot argue!
I was never suggesting your point, as speculation, was not intuitive.
Nor was I saying that presupposing those ‘Celts’ will be better
as history plays out.
Neither will I argue that they were the greatest assembled ‘TEAM’
of all time. [1986]
But to say that the Hawks have reached their ceiling is ludicrous
considering we agree that the Celts had superior coaching.
The 86 Celts were in their prime, whereas the Hawks,
only Joe and Jamal of the integral components have reached their
peak years. Plus if given superior teaching [coaching], we do not
know the ceiling for this Hawk team.
I am with you in that I do not think they [Hawks] will become the
[86 Celts]. However, I do believe they can become an elite team
with or w/o Wdsn. (The Celts are certainly an appropriate model)
I feel there are some [1 or 2 pieces] of the puzzle left to be assembled. The [86 Celts] were complete when they got Walton.
Imagine if we got a *6th man [ala Jamal] albeit a ‘Big’ much like Walton. Not necesarily a HOFer, just a quality ‘Big’ to come off
the bench as BW did. Lets say we picked up [KG] next yr. for a
bag o’ doughnuts to be a quasi leader/bench guy…
Walton clone for us, now how does that change the dynamic.
*(Not giving up Jamal as the real 6th man)
Was that clear enough?
Dos Hawkquis
April 20th, 2010
10:29 am
I hate the fact that the first round is 7 games. I wish it were 5, like it used to be in the ’90’s.
“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends.”
Dos Hawkquis
April 20th, 2010
10:32 am
TERRELL,
I am hoping that the Hawks can keep Mo’. I understand that he wants about 4mil. I think that he is worth it. If JJ leaves, and we can’t get Chills back, I think that we keep Mo’.
“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends.”
ant banks
April 20th, 2010
10:34 am
please stop tryin’ to move horford out of the 5 slot. the hawks see him as a 5. he made the allstar as a 5. he is a 5!! if they get another big, that would move horford to the 4, THEN WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
Move smoove to the 3? or have him come off the bench? horford will be a 5 on the hawks team atleast until smoove contract runs out.
doc
April 20th, 2010
10:37 am
careful, grand dad i made the argument that if josh and al stay together over a lifetime which itself is unusual that the crystal ball might reveal them to be on par in numbers with some of the great center, strong forward combinations of old and used the example of parish and mchale. of course there were some that thought that was down right mad. it was merely taking the long view of what might occur if two great athletes that are young and if stay healthy could do in a lifetime right before our eyes. i for one think it is possible.
remember after the sixers decided to go with brand i said compare the numbers josh puts up in comparison to brand during the lifetime of the contracts and see we got the better of the deal. thank you sixers for not showing josh the money. so i see what you are meaning and saying and agree. as far as the comparison in the long run i think i might be as right with that as i was with the brand/josh comparison though some derided me there as well.
Grandad
April 20th, 2010
10:59 am
Thank you doc:
I was able to watch those great Celtic teams [TV] and their passing
was what set them apart. Comparing them to anyone is
‘apples’ to ‘oranges’. They were not particularly athletic
by the “runnin’ & jumpin’” definition.
But I’m with you in that Josh & Al can be a core for yrs. to come.
I would also very much like to see Joe & Jamal stay together to see
what chemistry can grow from this nucleus.[JJJ&A]
Grandad
April 20th, 2010
11:05 am
doc:
One other thing – Josh has exceeded my expectations.
I am very happy management stayed with the young man.
You were very intuitive as well.
niremetal
April 20th, 2010
11:10 am
Doc/Granddad,
I’m sorry, but anyone who thinks that Josh and Al will develop into anything remotely in the vicinity of McHale/Parish is vastly, vastly overrating their potential. McHale and Parish were first-ballot Hall of Famers. In the entire history of the Atlanta Hawks, only one player – Nique – was a first ballot HOFer. They both were named in the “50 Greatest Players in NBA History” list, which not even Nique made. I bet you that neither Josh nor Al will ever be named to a comparable list.
And before you say, “but they’re still young, they could develop into those kinds of players,” I respectfully state that if you think that, you’re crazy
. These guys are first-ballot Hall of Famers. That kind of potential is pretty much always clear by the time a player is 24/25, if not sooner. You see people talking about Durant, LeBron, D-12, and Bosh that way among young players. No one is talking the same way about Josh or Al.
Kevin McHale had the greatest low-post repertoire in the history of the game, and both McHale and Parish had a smoothness to their offensive game that can’t be “taught” or “developed.” I actually think that Josh is a better helpside defender than either, and both are more athletic than McHale or Parish was. But offensively and in terms of career accolades, I would bet a month’s salary that neither will ever be on the same planet as McHale and Parrish. Ever. And I will let you name your price and will give you 10:1 odds that Josh and Al ultimately score fewer points (McHale had 17k, Parrish 23k), make fewer All-Star games (McHale made 7, Parrish 9), win fewer titles (McHale won 3, Parrish 4), and are not first-ballot Hall of Famers.
KevinA said not to long ago that Horford had the potential to be a Tim Duncan like scorer. But Horford’s career high is 14 ppg – which is 4ppg below Duncan’s career LOW. He also has never had an rpg average higher than Duncan’s career low of 10.1rpg. And both of those lows were set THIS year, not when Duncan was young, so clearly it’s not a matter of Horford “developing” into that kind of player.
This post is similarly delusional with regard to these guys’ ceilings. First-ballot Hall of Famers don’t just suddenly appear. They usually are pegged from their rookie season on, and almost always are identified by year 3/age 25. Josh and Al have a combined 9 years NBA experience and have a combined total of 1 All-Star appearance. I’m sorry, but you’ve got to put the pipe down if you think that they – or anyone else on the Hawks – have the potential to become first-ballot Hall of Famers.
niremetal
April 20th, 2010
11:18 am
I will say that there maybe, maybe is a chance that Horford could get to the level of Parish if he steps up his game even more next year and can maintain it for as long as Parish managed to. But seriously, I have heard no one outside of a few overzealous fans suggest that either he or Josh has Hall-of-Fame potential.
Daniel
April 20th, 2010
11:23 am
nire- I think a better ceiling comparison for Horford would be Chris Weber (sans mental breakdowns). I could certainly live with that.
doc
April 20th, 2010
11:25 am
yes nire, i didnt expect your opinion to change nor your condescending attitude over the subject. not sure where that comes from or why since this is all conjecture anyway with ten years before there is an answer, if you want to call it that. delusions of grandeur aside, whether mine or yours, maybe in ten years we will be around to discuss it further . i can only hope i am still around and josh and al are putting the final touches on long and storied careers in tandem with one or two championships under their belts.
to count josh’s first four years as not an all star is playing with numbers there too nire. silly to place that much emphasis on when he should have been crafting his trade in college which is how mchale and parish did it. same goes for al too, as it is a different environment now in college than it was then.
guess we will find their ceiling soon enough but i hope not as a fan of the hawks. in the meantime, i suggest we enjoy the ride without the name calling, okay? since when did lawyers study the dsm code book for psychological disorders? heh heh, none of my lawyer friends ever suggested such knowledge or expertise.
niremetal
April 20th, 2010
11:44 am
Actually doc, it is lawyers (or rather, judges) who decide whether people are legally insane, and I have a copy of the DSM IV-TR
. That being said, I thought the 
would make it clear that the “crazy” was facetious on my part.
doc
April 20th, 2010
11:48 am
heh heh heh didnt realize your range was so far nire got me once again. nothing but respect, i truly hope that isnt a delusion as well.
doc
April 20th, 2010
11:51 am
btw nire, since one of my acupuncture patients is a psychiatrist maybe he is wrong in the notion that his testimony carries some weight in the decisions made in the legal process. if it aint delusional nire, i am sure it is all illusion. that is a fact.
great line from the book shogun ….. a mans fate is a mans fate …. life is just an illusion.
Samuel
April 20th, 2010
11:56 am
Doc,
Of course he doesn’t have to answer to me. I just thought we could possibly get his take on the subject. I’m quite sure there has been some level of opinion in some of his stuff. Nothing is purely objective and since this subject seems to be the most debated around here, I just wanted to know. Oh well.
Yes, my Cuz is gone and so are my “freebies”, Damn. I just saw him a few weeks ago and he’s doing great even though he just lost a close relative this week.
RIP Uncle Carl.
On the Celtic vs Hawks. I really don’t think it’s about the age. I just don’t see that caliber of player in any of the guys we got save maybe Josh. I could be wrong but I just don’t see it.
doc
April 20th, 2010
12:07 pm
yes samuel i agree with you these guys may not measure up to the greats but who knows both still are 25 and in my mind anyway mchale and parish werent legends by then either.
glad to know cuz is well, kind of had a relationship with him as well since i was here from his first post, now it is mc’s time to become the legend2.
hope all is well with you and your cadre.
Samuel
April 20th, 2010
12:16 pm
Doc,
I am pretty good. Too busy. Working on my Masters and getting that boat ready for them large mouth. Been having dizzy spells though. I’m hoping it was just allergies. I’m headed to the Cardiologist today. MC is doing a great job. You know me, I gotta to stir the pot every once in a while.
Grandad
April 20th, 2010
12:46 pm
niremetal:
As always, I respect your opinion, but where did I say there was
a comparison of present day Hawks to 80s Celtics.
I thought surely you of all people would see the point I was
making; was you cannot make a conclusion until all the facts are in.
I thought I said that to presuppose something is different than proving it by posting stats for one side [completed] while the other side is still in the works. My point being all along is:
“The 80s Celts are an excellent model with which to build a franchise.”
“Their strong suit was their intangibles” [stated above].
“Neither will I argue that they were the greatest assembled ‘TEAM’
of all time. [1986]” Grandad 10:16 AM
“I was never suggesting your point, as speculation, was not intuitive.”
Grandad 10:16 AM
“But to say that the Hawks have reached their ceiling is ludicrous
considering we agree that the Celts had superior coaching.”
Grandad 10:16 AM
addendum – never suggesting that Hawks ceiling was 86 Celts.
“I was able to watch those great Celtic teams [TV] and their
passing was what set them apart. Comparing them to anyone is
‘apples’ to ‘oranges’.” Grandad 10:59 AM
If one were to attempt to compare any players the best I could come up with were:
*Joe Johnson…Dennis Johnson [I might give a slight edge to Joe]
**pure speculation: based on my argument that his career [JOE]
has not run its course, therefore impossible to foresee with accuracy.
*Zaza…Greg Kite (did you ever see Greg Kite play?) [edge Zaza]
***same as above, who really knows?
****Had they ever played 1 on 1, it may have ended in a scoreless tie!
Parrish & or Walton / The Hawks have no 7 ftrs.
Josh & Al / The Celts didn’t have two like those [skill set either].
Mchale & Bird – a wash
Jamal – better than any guard off their bench.
Once again this is ludicrous. (my whole point)
I never ever said any Hawk would or would not make the HOF.
One more time:
As far as ‘TEAM’ basketball;
what better team could you use as a model?
GeeMack
April 20th, 2010
1:05 pm
Daniel
I think Buck Williams is a better ceiling for Horford. C-Webb was a beast, and maybe a HOF.
The Truth
April 20th, 2010
1:24 pm
Grandad
Regarding the Parish/McHale debate you made, I agree with your comment:
“I’m saying two things flat out:
1. You cannot see into the future.
*[Joe, Josh, Al]
2. You cannot prove a point with incomplete data.
* Hawks careers have not yet run their cycle.”
Since we are all bored while we wait for the Hawks vs. Bucks tip-off, let me just say your statement makes common sense to me. The argument can’t be competed until Al and Josh retires. Anything less is (well) LESS FILLING. However, if we just wanted to take a snap-shot of comparison of Al and Robert Parish at similar times in their careers:
Parish was drafted in the first round of the 1976 NBA Draft by the Golden State Warriors, the reigning 1975 NBA Champions. Parish played 4 years for the declining Warriors and became expendable to Boston in 1980. It would be 6 years before Parish earn is first NBA All-Star appearance in 1981 for the Boston Celtics. However over his career, he would make a total 9 All-Star appearances.
Al Horford was drafted in the first round in 2007 NBA Draft by the Atlanta Hawks. The Hawks was (and still is) in a rebuilding mode when they acquired Al Horford. On February 16, 2008 Horford played in the NBA All-Star Rookie Challenge. He had 19 points and 7 rebounds as the rookies were defeated by the sophomores. With Al starting at the center position, on April 14, 2008, the Hawks clinched their first playoff berth since the 1998–99 season, and in the first round surprised the favored Boston Celtics. After just 1 year in the NBA, Al Horford would earn is first NBA All-Star appearance in 2010 for the Atlanta Hawks. However, the rest of Al Horford All-Star appeareances (2011 and beyond) is still an open book.
So you be the judge, but to compare Al Hordford 2 year plus body of work to Robert Parish is truly unfair.
BirdDawg
April 20th, 2010
1:30 pm
Robert Parish’s career numbers: 14.5 ppg, 9.1 rpg, and 1.6 bpg. Made his first All Star game at 28 years old.
Al Horford’s numbers this season(just his second) 14.2 ppg, 9.9 rpg and 1.1 bpg and he made his first All Star game at 23 years old.
Kevin Mchales career numbers 17.9 ppg, 1.7 bpg, 1.7 apg, .35 spg, 7.3 rpg and made his first All star game at 26 years old
Josh Smith’s numbers this season 15.7 ppg, 2.1 bpg, 4.2 apg, 1.5 spg, 8.7 rpg and probably should have been an All Star this year at 24 years old
I don’t know if these two guys will ever reach the level of the Celtics I am comparing them to, but based on the numbers, it’s not as far fetched as some of the “fans” on here would have you believe.
doc
April 20th, 2010
1:36 pm
samuel it is all good, take care bro. hope check up goes withoiut anything significant other than you are trying to stay active like you were still 20.
look out you might get old like me.
yeah, also keep stirring samuel, i think we have both learned as bit that way about things and each other. you remember the roid debates, that was fun? i dont know if i was right about bonds (course i was) but was very right about the rocket and i think my prediction there might have surprised you when i made, conjured or surmised it. i really dont think you were expecting to be brought up in our discussion.
now, if these hawks can hold service tonight, that is way cool.
TigerWoods
April 20th, 2010
1:44 pm
back from playing golf. It was raining so to more fun stuff.
Grand daddy, i am ok with the way you tried to explain Gearon’s comparison to Cs. You make logical arguments. That was and is a bad example he used, i think we agree on that.
Not so fast on my Wooden friend, and comparing him to KC. KC was a care taker after Bill Fitch methods became too dictatorial for the Cs. Wooden is not a care taker.
To not give Wooden credit for improvements in Hawks is an injustice. To use that most over used term these days, “organic growth” is simply not giving credit to a coach that has helped keep the Hawks on the straight and narrow.
You simply want to say Hawks would have improved, regardless of Wooden’s method or any body’s. That is not true if you look at how Smoove was. If you look at how JJ had to agree to changing roles. If you don’t look at fact we lost Chils. If you do not look at regression of that monk Marvin. If you don’t look at Bibby’s decline. You are saying growth, but narrowly focusing on Al and what you now see is Smoove. And not giving credit to Smoove’s development and Wooden riding him hard.
i know you don’t like him because he is a bully (your words not mine). But Granny, let me tell you, those methods keep Hawks away from the decline that Sixers experienced. Most analysts thought they be doing much better this year, where are they and their coach now? How about that bum coaching Wizards. He thought he inherited something but instead lost his locker room and respect of his players. When was last time you heard Hawks had an issue? Don’t tell me Hawks did not have tough characters, Smoove and Chills and AC and Salim and … are tough. But a tough Wooden managed them.
As truth tells you, Hawks still in rebuilding mode. Monk needs to be either shipped out or something. A center needs to be obtained. A point guard that can shoot the ball straight (may be teague needs laser surgery) need to be had.
With all that, Wooden is doing ok. I am not a fan of his defense, but otherwise, he has done a fine job of getting us here.
Do not put it simply as organic growth. That insults both you and my intelligence.
doc
April 20th, 2010
1:55 pm
oooh bird dawg you are doing the work i used to do when i had time. wow dude, really good stuff unless you discount josh because he has to get his numbers without the great moves to the basket nire speaks of and al doesnt meet up to the sttandards those here suggest that is necesrary to be a “TRUE CENTER”. again bird dawg thanks for the back up, glad to know at least on this issue someone really has my back.
umm guess i am getting lazy in my old age as well. heh heh
now where was northcyde with the stats when i needed him?
northcyde
April 20th, 2010
3:38 pm
Good Lord folks. The comparison with the 80s Celtics with the current Hawks, had nothing to do with comparable talent. It had to do with CHEMISTRY and CONTINUITY.
Bird – Parish – McHale – Ainge and DJ played together for the majority of that decade. They had great chemistry and complimented each others games very well. And like Gearon said, any one of those guys could step up and beat you on any given night. It wasn’t just always Bird beating you.
The same could be said for this current crop of Hawks. It’s not just JJ . . . it’s not just Jamal . . it could easily be Horford, Smoove, or even Bibby . . . even Marvin every blue moon. I think that’s what Gearon was getting at. Not a literal talent comparison between Boston’s core and Atlanta’s core.
LOL . . in Bird’s first 9 years in the league, Boston won 60+ games six times . . had 9 straight years of at least 56 or more wins . . and won 3 titles. So of course you can’t make a direct parallel to that great of a team. We’re just trying to keep a core group of guys together for a long period of time, like they did.
Grandad
April 20th, 2010
4:11 pm
TigerWoods:
Exactly! Thank You.
My argument: [Wdsn] I was using the same rationale to argue
K.C.Jones point v Wdsn that Samuel was using Cs v Hawks.
It was illogical.
Then we agree.
I’m also glad to see you make another point for me as well:
“KC was a care taker after Bill Fitch methods became too *dictatorial for the Cs. Wooden is not a care taker.” *TigerWoods 1:44 PM
“I know you don’t like him because he is a *bully(your words not mine).”
*TigerWoods 1:44 PM
One could draw a correllation between: *bully = *dictatorial
Nah…then this argument could go on infinitum.
*I also agree Marv needs a change of scenery for his own good.
*I also think we need a Big. [more thoughts on that another day]
*Diasagree on Teaguer…he’s gonna be fine.
*As I said above, we are a couple of [puzzle]parts away from
being an ‘elite team’.
Now see we can get along.
Grandad
April 20th, 2010
4:14 pm
Well northcyde, how about that. You saw my point as well. Thanks!