Hawks Squawks: Bobcats 109, Hawks 100
Charlotte–Well, what to make of this one? You could hate on the Hawks for coming out with no urgency though they needed more of it without J.J and Bibby in the lineup. Or you can look at their 64-50 advantage in the second half and praise them for at least not folding.
– Shoot, I don’t know, maybe it’s something in between? “We didn’t come out ready to play,” Woody said. “It wasn’t pretty in the locker room at halftime. I thought we came out and played Atlanta Hawks basketball in the second half but the effort came too late.”
– The Bobcats raced out to a 21-8 lead and were up 34-14 after the first quarter. The Hawks had no energy, cohesion or communication. “We got off to a sluggish start,” Smoove said, and if you saw it you know that’s an understatement.
– The Hawks certainly looked like a different squad after halftime. Too bad they were already buried under Charlotte’s dunks and layups. “I don’t think we came out with enough energy to stop that early,” Al said.
– Another way to look at this game is to figure the Hawks didn’t have enough depth to beat a capable, desperate team that is tough on its court and just look at how the fill-ins played. “We are looking to see what guys are willing to step up and play in the absence of other guys,” Josh said. “We want guys who are not scared and can add that extra depth.”
– Mo was quiet early and great after halftime (20 points, 8/11 FG in the second half!). Teague was bad early and pretty good after halftime (seven points, four assists, no turnovers after halftime). And Mario . . . well, there’s a reason Mo played all 24 minutes in the second half (though Mario did have another nasty dunk).
– Teague said calmed down after Bibby pulled him to the side for a talk. ““That (bad start) let me know what I need to work on,” he said. “I was timid at first. When you are a rookie making your second start and things go bad, all of that is in your head. I’m glad I have veteran teammates who talk to me and support me.”
– “The rook’ was good,” Jamal said. “That’s what it’s all about is getting experience and getting comfortable out there.”
– “Jeff Teague did an outstanding job,” Smoove said. “He may have been a little shaken up in the first half but he came back in the second half and answered the bell.”
– Teague’s teammates are pulling for him. Woody wants Rook’ to do well, too. He said before the game he would let Teague play through mistakes, and he did until things started to get out of hand. And then he went back to him (yeah, I know, the options were slim but he put him out there).
– Woody credited Teague with sparking the Hawks after halftime. “I liked the way we picked it up,” he said. “Jeff Teague came in and was more aggressive offensively and pushed the ball. I like the way we competed in the second half.”
– Marvin’s early foul trouble hurt because Mario had to play small forward and the results were not good. Six points and three rebounds in 23 minutes from Marvin are just not enough when the Hawks are shorthanded. Teague had a more productive game in nearly equal minutes.
–Bibby tried to go at shootaround but couldn’t because of an ingrown toenail on his left big toe. He said he’s had issues with the nail before with the usually remedy to remove some skin so he can function without pain. But he said the right half of the nail was removed this time to avoid an infection.
– He said he’s not sure if he would play at Detroit. “I will try it when we get there,” he said. “I hope so. I hate to miss games.”
– The injury situation worsened for the Hawks when Jason Collins suffered a right foot injury before tipoff. Woody said he would have used him if healthy. Collins said X-rays were negative, so it’s probably a sprain.
– Then Zaza was lost to a hip injury in the second quarter. He said he has tendinitis in his right hip flexor. He’s also struggled with tendinitis in his left hip this season. “It was tight before the game,” he said. “I stretched it and warmed it up really good. I went in the game and it got worse and worse.”
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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116 comments Add your comment
hawks_4_life
April 6th, 2010
11:10 pm
first?
Marcus
April 6th, 2010
11:16 pm
eh? big stinker like in House Party (the original w/Martin Lawrence). Terrible time to lay a big one in the crapper.
Now Zaza is limping around and he is our Eastern European Rick Mahorn.
Well, strike 1 for imposing our will and instilling fear in a potential playoff opponent.
Get well soon JJ, Bibby, and Zaza. We need you all.
Marcus
April 6th, 2010
11:19 pm
Saving grace is that the Celtics laid an (Easter) egg in the Garden, losing 104-101 in a letdown after beating CLE.
Good guys still up 1 game for the No. 3 seed in the East. Just dont bend over for the Pistons.
BirdDawg
April 6th, 2010
11:19 pm
Yep…you’re first.
Cannon
April 6th, 2010
11:23 pm
pitiful pitiful pitiful showing in the 1st half. There’s no excuse for that. The only positive I can think of is that maybe the front office knows that we’re very average without Joe Johnson, and will be willing to sign him to a max contract this off-season.
BirdDawg
April 6th, 2010
11:23 pm
Effort again? This is like Groundhog Day. You would think that with all of the money these guys make, someone would have figured out how to get the team to play a full game with heart and energy. Can you imagine? We could be looking at a 10 – 15 loss team right now.
Marcus
April 6th, 2010
11:25 pm
oh great………the C’s game tomorrow is vs. banged up and defensively challenged Toronto, probably minus Chris Bosh (CLE A. Jamison performed in-game plastic surgery on Boshs’ nose with an errant elbow…and no novacane).
I hope old-age and fatigue grabs the C’s by the ankles tomorrow nite.
Carolyn Peck is the reason I watch NCAA Womens hoops coverage
April 6th, 2010
11:27 pm
Mario West 4 Defensive Player of the Year.
supa
April 6th, 2010
11:38 pm
I was at the game tonight and I can’t tell you how many people said that they can’t beleive the Hawks are the #3 team in the East. All the Bobcats fans wanted to face Atlanta in the first round.
Clyde
April 6th, 2010
11:41 pm
FIRE WOODY
Good coaches can win despite injuries. Look what Scott Skiles has done without Micheal Redd.
FIRE WOODY
northcyde
April 6th, 2010
11:43 pm
Our frontline has to take the brunt of the responsibility for that loss. They can’t continue to come out lifeless like that.
MC . . it’s like I said earlier today in the other blog . . it’s the DEFENSE. People can talk about offense all they want, but this team has to improve SIGNIFICANTLY on defense, if we want to make noise in the playoffs.
Like I said . . this why Woody harps on defense and rebounding so much.
northcyde
April 6th, 2010
11:47 pm
The $3 question now is:
Will Woody start Teague tomorrow, if Bibby can’t go?
BirdDawg
April 6th, 2010
11:52 pm
Wonder if mike krzyzewski is ready to take an NBA gig yet? Can’t hurt for Rick Sund to at least ask him.
cp
April 7th, 2010
12:05 am
I agree northcyde. It was down right frustrating watching our front line get manhandled tonight. If they play with just any kind of energy in the first quarter the results might have been different. We really need to find a active big next season. A guy who just wants to rebound and play defense. Offense would just be the icing on the cake from the guy. I don’t know where to find one at but we need one. Is the young kid from the Thunder a free agent this summer? I think his name is Ibaka or something I cant remember right now but a guy who plays like him would be ideal.
rusty
April 7th, 2010
12:15 am
northcyde i know our defense stinks but our offense stinks too. this team often plays like there head is stuck up there ass. this team often comes out with no energy & no spirit. how the hell can we go any where. i never see other teams leaving the free throw lane wide open for everybody to just waltz in uncontested. this team hasnt a clue about offense or defense.woody doesnt bring anything to the show
BirdDawg
April 7th, 2010
12:20 am
CP,
Why would we want an active big man like that when the defensive scheme would have him on the perimeter defending guards that he has no hope of stopping? Chances are, that type of big man would have much less lateral quickness than Josh or Al which, in this scheme, would lead to many more open driving lanes for opposing guards. You can target the bigs if you want, but tonight the entire team lacked any sort of defensive intensity.
tiger woo
April 7th, 2010
12:41 am
Celtics lose to the Knicks in a stinker – they’re calling it a letdown after beating the Celtics. Please . . .
Somebody says”we could be looking at a 10-15 loss team right now”. Oh, so we’re all of a sudden better than Cleveland AND the Lakers?
Jeez, we lose a game without our starting backcourt and it’s all gloom and doom on here.
Supa says “I can’t tell you how many people said that they can’t beleive the Hawks are the #3 team in the East.” Well we have 49 wins – you have 41 – do the math.
northcyde
April 7th, 2010
12:43 am
But if the bigs are usually the source of our energy, and they brought none to the game, they have to take the brunt of the responsibility.
The frontline sure did play energized in the 3rd quarter, after Woody ripped into the team at halftime. They knew that they got outworked thoroughly in that 1st half, so they came out like a different squad in that 3rd quarter. Even what little Marvin did tonight energy-wise, cane in the 3rd.
tiger woo
April 7th, 2010
12:46 am
Celtics lose to the Knicks in a stinker – they’re calling it a letdown after beating the Cavs. Please . . .
Woody played terrible tonight . . .
northcyde
April 7th, 2010
12:49 am
Tiger Woo . . . . the Hawks are right where they should be ( and where everyone thought they would be at the beginning of the season ). For all of the “shoud’ve been wins” we lost . . . we’ve also had our shar of “should’ve been losses” that we’ve won.
In the end, it all balances out. At most, we should be maybe at 52 wins right now. No way this is a 60 win team though.
tiger woo
April 7th, 2010
12:52 am
northcyde,
I read the blogs regularly but don’t comment much – I must say you are one of the more sensible folks on here – good points.
Clyde
April 7th, 2010
12:57 am
FIRE WOODY
tiger woo
April 7th, 2010
12:57 am
Good night, Clyde . . .
Clyde
April 7th, 2010
1:01 am
RESIGN WOODY
tiger woo
April 7th, 2010
1:02 am
Change of heart, Clyde?
cp
April 7th, 2010
1:12 am
BirdDawg when you put it like that I guess you’re right lol. The only thing I will disagree with is the lateral quickness. That kid from the Thunder I was talking about moves very well. He would fit in well with Josh and Big Al. And if he comes off the bench with the second unit it works because we usually don’t switch as much wit the second unit. It all depends on the personnel on the floor.
Clyde
April 7th, 2010
1:47 am
That wasn’t me
FIRE WOODY
Atlanta Fawks
April 7th, 2010
1:48 am
Braves are back! Who cares about these lame birds anymore?
First round and out then fire Woody!!!!
Clyde
April 7th, 2010
2:42 am
Football season is back. The Braves won’t even make the playoffs. Who cares baseball anymore.
FIRE WOODY
tjhook
April 7th, 2010
3:05 am
Bobby Simmons as a Hawk in 2010-2011.
darrell starks
April 7th, 2010
3:06 am
Woody is the luckiest coach in the nba, since he have been coaching the past three years he have had no injuries compare 2 the nba teams around the league, but as you can tell with a little bit injury 2 the team the hawks look very disoriented out there especialy on defense.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
darrell starks
April 7th, 2010
3:11 am
Marvin should not be starting period.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
vava74
April 7th, 2010
3:44 am
I didn’t watch the game this time but it seems pretty obvious that Teague’s performance in the first half is directly related to a lack of playing time.
And his performance in the second half is a token of his actual ability and potential.
The sorry thing is that tonight we will see Bibby starting with a limp and playing 30+ minutes, getting burned by Stuckey and Bynum.
JeJe
April 7th, 2010
8:03 am
Can someone explain the reason behind Randolph Morris playing before Jason Collins?
RandyMo went several games without dressing while Jason Collins dressed but RandyMo got in the game tonight before Jason.Collins…..
MARVIN HAD A KILLER NIGHT, STEPPING UP WHEN PLAYERS WERE OUT LOLOLOL
JeJe
April 7th, 2010
8:07 am
“WE JUST DIDN’T COME OUT WITH ENERGY”
HOW DO U NOT COME OUT WITH ENERGY? THIS IS THE FREAKING NBA. YOU ARE PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYERS
I KNOW NORTHCYDE I KNOW NORTHCYDE. WOODSON IS NOT AT FAULT HERE!
drmaryb
April 7th, 2010
8:28 am
JeJe
Jason Collins sprained his foot in pre-game warm ups. Poor Conditioning?
drmaryb
April 7th, 2010
8:29 am
VaVa
JT0 played pretty well last night.
drmaryb
April 7th, 2010
8:31 am
JT0. Could have had a dble-dble
jean
April 7th, 2010
8:39 am
mario west n teague should neve rbe allowed on the court at same time…hawks have 3 of top 5 worst shooters in nba(non center) teague,west,smith
drmaryb
April 7th, 2010
8:53 am
REST YOUR STARS!
BOSH fractured face!
BOGUT fractured fore-arm! (I cried when I saw him fall). Never want to see that happen to anyone!
Hawks have JJ out with sprained Rt. Thumb! (Typically, sparins worse than fractures). Except Bogut dislocated plus fractured – he’s down for a year at least).
The arm is not a weight-bearing joint – So, should be OK. But, psychologically devastating.
REST YOUR STARTERS!
vava74
April 7th, 2010
9:10 am
drmaryb,
Not during the first half, apparently.
However, if he had swished 2 FG more (not out of the ordinary since at least one of his banked layups was a good enough attempt – visible in the highlights), he would have finished with 13pts 6ass 3reb in 22 minutes.
ILL-logical
April 7th, 2010
9:27 am
An observation:
While there are probably a number of very good and very logical reasons for Marvin’s performance year to date, I can’t shake the feeling that perhaps a change of scenary would be best for all concerned. To be sure there are some larger issues looming over the post season; number (nimber in Hall of Fame dialect?)one is the possible sale of the franchise. None of the major issues faced by the Hawks can be addressed successfully without additional financial resources and there aren’t any within the current structure.
Second, and what jumped out at me last night in between switches to the UCon-Stanford game(baby girl will be a Stanford grad in June) was that our current center is not a shot blocker. In fact, he is not a strong offensive rebounder either and it is in these two areas that the team’s playoff fortunes rest.The iso offensive strategy or in technical terms, give the ball to Joe/Jamal and get out of the way has a major weakness: the frontline folks are stationed 25 feet from the basket in order to create lanes for the designated scorer to operste. Which looks fine during the 40% of the time that it works but when it doesn’t then it leaves the Hawks with the one and done offense that continues to haunt them in the fourth quarters.Regarding the procession of lay ups and dunks, it appears that it is not just the gaurds who are at fault; except fot the exceptional efforts of Josh, there is no challenge at the rim for anyone in an opponents jersy.
So , last night’s lesson learned was that there are some issues with the current Hawks’ frontline and they have major implications for the playoffs and beyond.
Fundamentals
April 7th, 2010
9:38 am
A bad day to be blogging. After that pitiful 1st half of unprofessional effort I deserve some crap. They didn’t play D the entire game. Let’s face it. Crap we culled taught us a lesson. I guess Diaw had fun showing up our front line all night and laughing at Woodson. Nice job Hawks. We let folks we culled embarass us!
Marvin – total let-down. No surprise there, but hey, I was hopeful! Way to go buddy.
Teague – scared to death in the 1st half, a great effort in the 2nd. He needs to start against Detroit to build on that confidence. Get Bibby 100% and pray that 2nd half translates into some real comfort & confidence for Teague.
Mo & Joe Smith – Thank you for showing up. You were the only bright spot, though Mo gets 12 fouls per game.
Morris – should’ve been used earlier when Josh & Al weren’t getting it done, especially when ZaZa went out.
Collins – are you surprised? Guy hasn’t been used all year. How’s he supposed to be ready to go? At his age he needs consistent play to keep him healty and sharp. He just doesn’t see it here.
I’m disgusted. Tonight needs to be a beat down session. We need a real effort to prove we even care. Last night was an embarrassement against a team that’ll give anyone they meet in the playoffs fits. They’re maximizing talent. Why can’t we?
AG
April 7th, 2010
9:50 am
Terrible first half. I will give the team for never giving up and trying to battle bac. Not understanding why Woody took out Teague with about 4 minutes in the fourth when the Hawks made their run and replaced him with Marvin. Woody has to sit Marvin for the hot man in the playoffs. I would rather start a Joe Smith.
O'Brien
April 7th, 2010
10:04 am
Our offense was not the reason we lost last night. It was horrible defense on our part. We gave up 52 points in the paint. And we can’t blame Bibby or the switching for that.
Bad defense (by our front-court especially), compounded by a lack of energy overall.
Great show of leadership by Bibby talking to the Rook during the game and helping him out in whatever way he can. I hope Bibby will be 100% for the playoffs, because we need him and his shot-making.
As for the Jeff Teague debate, ““That let me know what I need to work on,” Teague said. “I was timid at first. When you are a rookie making your second start and things go bad, all of that is in your head.”
Which leads to my point, that with more PT early in the season, he would not be so timid right now, because he would already be broken in. Hopefully he can build on his second half performance.
Fundamentals,
During the few occasions (garbage time) RandMo has gotten PT, he has looked decent in the post. Would he look better with more minutes? I don’t know.
i_am_soulstar
April 7th, 2010
10:13 am
I agree, the Hawks looked more lost in the 1st quarter than I’ve ever seen them this entire season. Just pitiful. Woody cannot be faulted for their lack of energy and poor decision making during the 1st.
But hey, is it just me, or is Randloph Morris a quality back-up center and we just never use him. Everytime he’s gotten in, he’s played pretty well, even though it’s only garbage time. He always looks like the best player on the floor during garbage time. I hate that Zaza’a hurting, but maybe now Randolph will get some burn. Other than last night, i haven’t seen him on the floor since before the all-star break.
The Real Hawk
April 7th, 2010
10:17 am
This is what happens when your coach doesn’t give enough playing time to its NO# draft pick. When called upon he’s a little lost with his shot. And hey, the playoffs are here!
The Real Hawk
April 7th, 2010
10:17 am
6 points for Marvelous Marvin!
Wabe
April 7th, 2010
10:25 am
Is there a single person left on this blog that’ll defend Marvin at this point?
Every argument (the lack of touches/the lack of confidence) seems to be falling flat. This guy has had periods where he breaks out, but then he’s non-existent the very next game. Hard to blame the guy’s confidence on that. It’s also hard to say he doesn’t see enough touches, because if you can’t find touches without JJ or Bibby playing, you’re obviously not calling for the ball. He’s just not aggressive enough. He’s a 6′9 wingman that plays too soft offensively.
Wabe
April 7th, 2010
10:25 am
I should remove the “offensively” at the end of that last sentence. It should say:
He’s a 6′9 wingman that plays SOFT, period.
Westurd
April 7th, 2010
10:39 am
Marvins killing me…………watching Marvin play is like watch Smoove shoot the 3 ball………it makes your insides queesy.
How many 6pt/3reb nights can we have from this starter. Start Mo already!! Dang…I’m getting pissy!
Westurd
April 7th, 2010
10:40 am
Marvin has had two good game this season……thats two more than Blake Griffin………
O'Brien
April 7th, 2010
10:55 am
Wabe,
Also, Mo Evans usually plays the same position as Marvin (although Mo plays mostly against backups). And in the games where Mo Evans has started in place of Marvin, or played starter minutes, he seems to have no trouble being aggressive and contributing
I understand the reasoning of starting Marvin right now. Chemistry is good, and there is no need to change the starting lineup this late in the season when we are going to win 50+ games, and Mo Evans is a good player to have coming off the bench.
But is there anyone out there, who is willing to argue that Marvin DESERVES to be the starter right now?
Clyde
April 7th, 2010
10:57 am
Woody needs to quit playing games and start Crawford and Mo in the playoffs. The only reason reason they start is because Woody shows them favor. With Joe and Bibby out Marvin should have had a better showing than 6 points. #imjustsaying
FIRE WOODY
KW
April 7th, 2010
11:00 am
Marvin Williams was a bad investment or draft chioice what ever, Management made a bad decision by resigning him and if you try to trade I don’t think they will have much luck because every other team think the same the only thing they can do is try to get a good small forward and a physical center during the off season and send Williams to the bench. I also fault Woodson he should have made Marvin Williams compeat for that position and bench his butt for under performing.
Delbert D.
April 7th, 2010
11:01 am
Come on, Hawks, pull it together. You can do it.
Clyde
April 7th, 2010
11:04 am
O’brien Marvin didn’t deserve the #2 pick in the draft but the Hawks were dumb enough to draft him. And on top of drafting him, signed him to a new contract instead of bringing back Jchill. smh
Based on Marvin Williams career so far he doesn’t deserve much.
FIRE WOODY
i_am_soulstar
April 7th, 2010
11:06 am
I was on my knees begging for the Hawks to trade Marvin for Stephen Jackson. I truly believe we would’ve been a 60 win team with him at SF. Come on Sund, no guts, no glory, you could’ve made it work easily with Marvin and another piece.
Here's whats going to happen
April 7th, 2010
11:14 am
The hawks will fall to 4th and get upset by the heat in the 1st round , maybe I am wrong but would it really surprise any long suffering fan to see it happen ?
Ken Strickland
April 7th, 2010
11:17 am
Has anyone else noticed how those who criticize Marvin, blame him for our losses when he doesn’t score a lot of points, and say he shouldn’t be starting, never ever say anything about Woodson’s insistence on starting him? Have you also noticed they never ever mention Woodson’s comments about him needing to get Marvin more involved in the OFF, but it never goes beyond just words?
Then we have those who insist on claiming Woodson is perfectly correct in playing Teague fewer than 10 inconsistent MPG, and that he’s not ready. Yet, Bibby will consistently go entire stretches where he’s nonproductive and will play worse than any rookie, especially on DEF, we hear absolutely nothing about his obvious regression, only a deafening silence from them.
THIS IS THE SAME LAME MENTALITY THAT REFUSES TO RECOGNIZE AND/OR ACCEPT THE NEED FOR CHANGE OR ADJUSTMENTS THAT WE’VE SEEN FROM WOODSON THROUGHOUT HIS HC CAREER. WOODY LOVERS seem to share the same mental flaws we see in Woodson, which might explain their blind obcession with defending him when his coaching is obviously having or causing problems. Just like their beloved Woody, they blame the players for everything that goes wrong, while going to extremes to absolved their hero of any blame.
Woodson has done a very good job in bringing this team to its current level, despite some obvious shortcomings on his part. However, he’s doing a sorry job of coaching this team and its talents to the next level. After 6yrs with this team, and having the same starting lineup for the last 3yrs, he still hasn’t:
(1) improved his halfcourt OFF,
(2) improved his ability to make ongoing changes or adjustments,
(3) learned to develop and trust his young players, and the guts to fully utilize and incorporate their talents.
(4) recognize the disadvantage of utilizing the cast system when dealing with players,
(5) recognized the importance of developing and consistently utilizing and extending his bench,
(6) seeking and accepting the advice and input of others when obviously needed,
(7) developing the ability to recognize when changes, adjustments, strategy or proactive and/or reactive decisions need to be made.
(8) recognize the importance and need to get involved in coaching gms and trying to make those needed adjustments or changes before halftime, or the Allstar break, rather than being forced to do so because of injuries.
No HC with a team that’s good enough to make the playoffs has done a worse job of coaching his team through injuries than Woodson over the yrs. The same goes for developing draft picks and using strategies. WOODSON IS JUST NOT THE BEST HC FOR THE ATLANTA HAWKS AT THIS STAGE OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT. HE’S JUST TOO LIMITED, INFLEXIBLE AND RIGID IN HIS APPROACH TO COACHING OR DEALING WITH PLAYERS AND SITUATIONS. This team is definitely talent and player driven, with little impact for its HC at this stage, unlike the Bobcats. This explains why we suffer more than other teams when we suffer a loss due to injuries, even shortterm injuries.
Last night, the Bobcats revealed their strategy right out of the box, and they were allowed to build a sizable of lead. Other than putting JCrawford in the gm and moving Smoove to SF, Woodson couldn’t come up with a single adjustment or strategy to counter what they were doing successfully doing to us before halftime. He just suffled the same lethargic, underperforming players in and out of the gm.
LAST NIGHT, OUR PLAYERS GOT OUTPLAYED, AND WOODSON GOT OUTCOACHED AND SCHOOLED BY HIS MASTER. The sad thing for us is, Woodson seems to have learned very little from his yrs under Larry Brown. The OFF LBrown has designed for the Bobcats is obviously different than the one he designed for the Pistons, and the 76ers. He designs OFF’s to fit the skills and talents of his players, while Woodson tries to force the skills and talents of his players into his limited one dimensional OFF concept.
Woodson reminds me of 2 football HC’s, Marion Campbell and Wade Phillips, who were excellent DEF coordinators, but not very good HC’s.
Sautee
April 7th, 2010
11:27 am
ILL-logical,
You said this:
“Second, and what jumped out at me last night in between switches to the UCon-Stanford game(baby girl will be a Stanford grad in June) was that our current center is not a shot blocker. In fact, he is not a strong offensive rebounder either and it is in these two areas that the team’s playoff fortunes rest.”
OK I’ll grant that Horford is not a great shotblocker (though he had two last night), but to say that he’s not a strong offensive rebounder when he ranks 7th among all centers is pushing the point a bit. There will be 16 teams in the playoffs. Of those 16 teams, only 3 have centers who average more offensive rebounds than Al. (Bogut would have made it 4.)
THREE centers with more O boards!
Give Al some credit for competing at such a high level when he’s smaller and lighter than most of the centers he plays against.
And realize that he would likely have a higher shotblocking production if he were not versatile enough to switch out on perimeter players, leaving him far from the basket.
Here’s a link to the rebound stats for centers:
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Rebounds.jsp?league=00&season=22009&conf=OVERALL&position=1&splitType=9&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=2&splitDD=All%20Teams
Westurd
April 7th, 2010
11:30 am
Ken,
Who’s got time to read the all that above? Seriously?
In regards to the first paragraph………….you think we should blame Woody for Marvin being craptastic? Then I guess we should blame Sund for having Woody coach the team….or wait, I think we should blame the Atlanta Spirit for hiring Sund who allows Woody to coach the team who keeps Marvin as a starter…….
You can deflect the blame anywhere you like, but if Marvin is playing like a third grade girl then its on him, not the coach!
Westurd
April 7th, 2010
11:34 am
one arguement in favor of Al is his ability to run the floor, take players off the dribble, and his all around athleticism. I prefer to see the hustle and energy then to see a big log in the middle of the lane.
Marcus
April 7th, 2010
12:10 pm
I like his potential and all….but I am starting to wonder if Marvin is the Hawks version of Falcons DE Jamaal Anderson.
Mike is Back
April 7th, 2010
12:15 pm
MC, great break down of the events that unfolded in the Bobcat game…you summed it well. The Bobcats will be a tough team to beat in the playoff.
For as bad as the Hawks looked in the first half…there is still two ways to look at this loss. Another dubious loss on the road for Hawks…and if you are the Bobcat you can’t take much solace in the fact that JJ and Bibby was missing and the Hawks still had a chance to win the game…even though you had a 23 point lead at the half.
I agree with Woody’s assessment on the game and Teague. I also agree with JC’s assessment, they will be better prepared and should respond better in Detroit. Woody said something about Teague I thought was very telling. He said once he picks up the defense, he will be right there. We seen it last night…for all those who questioned why so many of us feel this kid has the skills to be a PG in this league. He is making steady progress…however, closing out on the three-point shooter continues to be a struggle…he gave up some big threes in the second half. The thing I notice in the second half is he played with more confidence. That comment by Woody doesn’t sound like someone who has given up on Teague to me. WAY TO GO YOUNG FELLA.
Yeah, I’m just as concern as everyone else is with our pedestrian road record. Things like that usually come back to haunt you in the playoff…they handle that by winning today…THEY NEED TO BREAK THIS LOSING STREAK TONIGHT…and get number 50 out the way…that would salvage this road trip.
KEEP IT GOING….GET NUMBER 50 TONIGHT…GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cp
April 7th, 2010
12:16 pm
Mario West should not be in the NBA. I hope this is his last year with the team….. I’m still baffled as to why Woodson took Teague out once he got hot and put Marvin in who had did nothing all night. If Bibby is not ready to go tonight go with Teague. Hopefully his confidence is still high.
Ken Strickland I am usually with you but I just cant agree with you about Marvin. We can blame Woodson for a lot of things but I just don’t see how he can be blamed for Marvin being terrible. If Mo Evans can start and get shots then why cant Marvin? You know why, because he is not aggressive. He defers to much and just kinda stands around out there. Its like someone said earlier, if he cant get up shots with both Joe and Bibby out then thats on him. Mo the rook and everybody else had no issue with putting up shots. Its time to just move on from Marvin this off-season. The kid just ain’t what the so called experts thought he would be.
JOE
April 7th, 2010
12:31 pm
marvin’s just collecting a check at this point, he’s an embarrasment….
Rod from College Park
April 7th, 2010
12:46 pm
“You can deflect the blame anywhere you like, but if Marvin is playing like a third grade girl then its on him, not the coach!”
Great post Westurd. Marvin is a bum on the basketball court. I said it when he was drafted. I said it 3 years ago when I first started on this blog. I will say it now. He will not get better in Atlanta, and if he does get better anywhere else it will only be minimal. He would not be the star on a NBDL team. His skills are limited, and he is only ajump shooter who can’t shoot. It is more than obvious that Mo Evans should be starting at the two and Joe at the three. The only thing offensively that the Hawks ask Marvin to do is hit the wide open corner jump shot or 3 point shot and get to the rim and finish, and Mo Evans does both much better than Marvin. Mo evans also plays with much more energy and aggressiveness, and brings a little nastiness to the team, something we really need. Whatever relationship Woodson has with Marvin, he really needs to re-evaluate it, because no production or defense from the 3 position is what will ultimately cost him his job.
cdog
April 7th, 2010
12:47 pm
je je, clyde and terrell. i love all of you.didn’t mean to upset you.i apologize for all that i said to you all.i want you to see what i’m talking about.can you blame woodson for not having heart and desire? no. look at it, we are fighting for the 2nd seed as well as the 3rd seed in the east and your two so called leaders go out with ingrown toenails and a thumb injury.are they concern about how they finish?no.these are injuries you got to play through this time of the year.the only player with heart and desire on the team is josh smith.thats what i meant when i said they have players who expect to lose to the cavs and majic.this not woodson’s fault
cdog
April 7th, 2010
12:49 pm
ALSO, WHATS SO BAD ABOUT THE SITUATION, THEY DON’T EVEN TRAVEL WITH THE TEAM.SOME COMMITMENT WOULDN’T YOU SAY?
O'Brien
April 7th, 2010
12:59 pm
I am a fan of Mario West, because despite his limited ability, he always gives 110%, and he plays agrressive defense (which is good more often that not). And he went to GT. But as we seen last night, when he is needed for more than just a few seconds here and there, you just dont know what to expect.
It still makes you wonder why the Hawks signed Othello Hunter, and then Mario West instead of Stackhouse. You never know when injuries might occur, and Mario (and Othello) do not seem like players that you want to give extended PT to. Plus, to be an elite team, you need options. And our options, are not that good.
Ken S,
As Rod from CP would say, “have you seen Marvin play?”. Have you seen anything about his game and his talent (right now) that would make Woody run plays for him?
He gets his shot blocked (by smaller guys sometimes), he fumbles and stumbles, not very good posting up (in fact, his best move is to try draw a foul and go to the FT line), and his jumper (despite his good form) is not consistent like it should be.
Plus, when Mo Evans starts in place of Marvin (or plays extended minutes), he has no problems getting his shots up. Why? Because he is more aggressive, and thats what Woody said he wants from Marvin. be mroe aggressive,.and stop deferring so much.
I can understand Marvin’s (offensive) shortcomings, so what I would like to see from him is to be a beast on the boards, and play very good defense (consistently). If he can excel at those 2 things, then his offensive contribution would be a bonus.
It’s like northcyde was saying about Teague. There has to be something that Marvin does well. And right now, the only thing he does well is shoot FTs. We need more that that for $7.5 mil.
I am looking forward to the game tonight. I really think the Hawks will play much better.
KW
April 7th, 2010
1:00 pm
Check this out Joe all season long Marvin Williams have done nothing really to contribute except when Mike Woodson called him Mike Bibby and ZaZa in his office after that he had 2 or 3 good games. He is doing just enough for the hawks to consider keeping him and I think Woodson speak up for Williams I really don’t understand why he wasn’t benched and Mo Evan moved into the lineup every other coach will do that in a heart beat except Woodson that’s why Teague is not getting much playing time because when Bibby was in that slump for most of the season Teague should have started a coach have to send a message to his team when they are under performing.
Daniel
April 7th, 2010
1:05 pm
Bad loss, low energy in the first half, two starters out with injuries and we maintain the third seed. Drop it, move on. Beyond that you are just making the same points about this team whether win or lose over and over. I would have thought people might have gained some perspective at this point in the season, but it is the same ole, same ole. Woody sucks, Marvin sucks, Bibby sucks (because he is injured) blah, blah, blah.
Bottom line the team will end up with 52 wins and probably the third seed, which every reasonable Hawks fan was hoping for at the begining of the season.
I hate to see them lose and while I am watching every game is the most important, until the next one…..
jgsbrids
April 7th, 2010
1:06 pm
i’ve said this all year–start joe smith and bring marvin off the bench. i watched about five minutes of the girls championship game last night and saw those two teams box out more in five possessions than i’ve seen the hawks do all year. butler and duke were also great at it–woody can you please teach this technique to our team before it’s too late?
DawgNole
April 7th, 2010
1:17 pm
Here’s what’s going to happen said:
“The hawks will fall to 4th and get upset by the heat in the 1st round, maybe I am wrong but would it really surprise any long suffering fan to see it happen?”
As a long-suffering (40-plus years) Hawks fan, I don’t think you’re wrong at all–and if your prediction comes true, no one SHOULD be surprised (although many will be, stupidly). The Atlanta chapter of this frachise boasts a record of futility–never getting past the second round of the playoffs in more than 40 years–matched by few in the history of American professional sports. That doesn’t change the fact that I will continue to pull rabidly for the players, and to curse them bitterly when they fail us once again, as their predecessors have done so many times before.
Daniel
April 7th, 2010
1:30 pm
KW- you really think that a NBA coach needs to “bench” a veteran proven player like Bibby to “send a message”? You do realize this is professional basketball and not high school. If a player of Bibby’s calibre hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt at this point in his career THEN woodson would be a bad coach. Sorry, but the NBA does not work the way you seem to think that it does. Embarrassing really.
JeJe
April 7th, 2010
1:32 pm
WTF IS WRONG WITH MARVIN?
Woodson REFUSES to call out players in the media.
WOODY IF YOU ARE READING THIS, SHAME ON YOU.
How do you not get on Marvin’s case? The guy LITERALLY scores 4 points a game half the time. FOUR POINTS AS A 2ND OVERALL PICK. This is an abomination. I’d rather take Kwame over the garbage Marvin provides for this team. It takes someone yelling at him for him to even try.
His interviews he gives this persona like he is all laid back, THAT HE DOESN’T WATCH BASKETBALL OR PLAY BASKETBALL VIDEO GAMES, and really doesn’t like competition.
He was the SIXTH man on a UNC team. He was NOT good enough to start.
And why the HELL do we not start Crawford if JJ is out? If JJ IS OUT, OBVIOUSLY WE ARE DOWN 20 PPG, SO WHY NOT START OUR 2ND BEST SCORER? GREAT JOB WOODY — I’M SURE ONE OF YOUR ASSISTANT COACHES TOLD YOU THIS, BUT YOU ARE STILL IN YOUR DETROIT DREAM DAYS
GOD DAMNIT
Daniel
April 7th, 2010
1:40 pm
DawgNole- I don’t understand your point. You say that you will continue to support this team rabidly, but others who may be suprised when they lose are “stupid”? Which is it? I would be suprised and disappointed if we lose in the first round, and I would NOT be stupid for thinking that. If we lose in the second round, I don’t think anyone would be that suprised, especially to the Cavs or Magic.
JeJe
April 7th, 2010
1:45 pm
Great post Ken Strickland.
You and I emphasize the same things: WOODSON SUCKS, Marvin and Bibby are severe underachievers, and again, Woodson is holding this team back. It’s for these reasons I just copy and paste previous posts into the new blogs. Why waste 15 minutes making a new post when I know I’m just reiterating the same things?
Daniel
April 7th, 2010
1:45 pm
Yeah, great advice JeJe. Publicly calling out players to motivate them has such a great track record with professionals. You can tell how good a coach is by how well and much he uses the media to critique his players. Boy, that is exactly what I want from my coach.
O'Brien
April 7th, 2010
1:46 pm
Maybe JJ and Bibby’s injuries could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
With JJ and Bibby not playing, our guys were reminded that you have to be ready to go from the start of the game. Too often, we’ve had slow starts, so maybe this will be a wakeup call as we get into the playoffs.
Also, with Bibby injured, Teague got some much needed PT. That way, if Bibby gets injured later, or if he is stinking up the joint, maybe Teague will play better assuming he builds on last night’s performance.
And with the thumb injury, it gave JJ a chance to get some rest from playing so many minutes, so hopefully he will be healthy and well rested for the playoff run.
Although Detroit beat us earlier in the year (with JJ playing), on a night when the Pistons were missing 3 or 4 of their regulars, I am looking forward to a better effort from the Hawks tonight.
They now know (again) that they cannot come out flat on the road, and expect to win, especially without their best player. And I’m sure Woody will be reminding them leading up to the game.
Daniel
April 7th, 2010
1:47 pm
or why waste time reposting it if you are just reiterating the same things?
Bobcats (109) Hawks (100) Game Recap | Soaring Down South | An Atlanta Hawks blog
April 7th, 2010
1:48 pm
[...] Hawks Blog – AJC [...]
BYC
April 7th, 2010
1:49 pm
Turned my TV on right as the 1st quarter ended and I was like what the hell??? Haven’t seen a game that lopsided after the 1st for a while…
Daniel
April 7th, 2010
1:49 pm
Wow, be careful there O’brien. You wouldn’t want to put the situation in perspective or find any positives even in a loss. You might make too much sense. Remember we are supposed to just ram home the same points (agenda) again and again, no matter the situation.
tiger woo
April 7th, 2010
2:02 pm
“LAST NIGHT, OUR PLAYERS GOT OUTPLAYED, AND WOODSON GOT OUTCOACHED AND SCHOOLED BY HIS MASTER. The sad thing for us is, Woodson seems to have learned very little from his yrs under Larry Brown. The OFF LBrown has designed for the Bobcats is obviously different than the one he designed for the Pistons, and the 76ers. He designs OFF’s to fit the skills and talents of his players, while Woodson tries to force the skills and talents of his players into his limited one dimensional OFF concept”.
—————————————————————————————————————————————–
OK – if Larry Brown’s system is so much better than Woody’s, why do we have 8 more wins than the Bobcats this year ??????????????
DawgNole
April 7th, 2010
2:11 pm
Don’t distort what I wrote, Daniel. I did not write, “others who may be suprised when they lose are ’stupid’” I wrote that many will be surprised, and stupidly so, if the prediction of “Here’s what’s going to happen” (a 4th seed and first-round playoff loss) comes true. And indeed many will be, and they will be stupid–or ignorant, if you prefer–to be surprised at the early failure of this team. It is a franchise marked by early failures for 40-plus years. There should be no surprise whatsoever if yet another one occurs. And why would you question my rabid support of the team? Just because they have failed every year for 40-plus years doesn’t mean I no longer hope they will finally succeed. I want more than anything for them to bring an NBA championship to Atlanta, but I’m not a fool; I’m a realist. The biggest surprise of all would be if they got past the second round–not if they failed in the first, but there are many out there (they post on here every day) who fully expect them to survive the second round, stupidly.
BirdDawg
April 7th, 2010
2:17 pm
It’s a little disheartening to see “fans” on here that sell the team short. Someone sarcastically asked the question, “oh, so we’re supposed to be better than the Cavs and the Lakers now?” HELL YEAH, WE’RE SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER!!!! This team has more talent than Cleveland and as much talent as the Lakers. The difference, the Lakers have better coaching, more consistency and Kobe Bryant and Cleveland plays harder, has more conistency and they have Lebron James. The Hawks have a lot of flaws that would be easily corrected for most teams, but for them seem to be a chore. Kobe and Lebron are highly vocal and lead their teams by example, you see no such leadership from any of the players on the Hawks. As good as Joe is, he just isn’t the leader that that those guys are which, in my opinion, is the only thing keeping him from being on their level. Cleveland plays hard pretty much every minute of every game, the Lakers every minute of most games, the Hawks…well, you guys know how it goes with their effort. The only thing keeping this team from being a 60 win team is an inability to correct what should be minor shortcomings. We don’t need a big man, we need a defense that keeps ours near the basket for help defense instead of on the perimenter defending guards. We need our guards to consistently bring the same engery that our big men bring most nights. We need Marvin to wake the hell up out of his coma and we need the coach to start doing some real coaching.
tiger woo
April 7th, 2010
2:26 pm
“It’s a little disheartening to see “fans” on here that sell the team short. Someone sarcastically asked the question, “oh, so we’re supposed to be better than the Cavs and the Lakers now?” HELL YEAH, WE’RE SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER!!!! This team has more talent than Cleveland and as much talent as the Lakers. The difference, the Lakers have better coaching, more consistency and Kobe Bryant and Cleveland plays harder, has more conistency and they have Lebron James.”
————————————————————————————–
. . . and that’s a big difference – take away Kobe from L.A. and LeBron from Cleveland and see how far they get . . . in addition, those teams have a much better bench than we have – by far.
BirdDawg
April 7th, 2010
2:31 pm
No doubt, Tiger Woo, that is THE difference, but it is something that can be and should have been easily corrected. A bunch of multi-millionaire players and coaches can’t figure out how to give better effort? Woody can’t figure out how to correct the mistakes this team makes over and over? And I don’t think their benches are appreciably better than ours, but their benches’ talents are utilized better by their coaches.
F-105 Thunderchief
April 7th, 2010
2:37 pm
The Hawks look like they are going to limp into the playoffs, and, if they do, will be eliminated in the first round. They’ve got enough players to overcome being banged up. They just have to want it bad enough.
GeeMack
April 7th, 2010
2:37 pm
Daniel
You having an Ice Cube moment on here today.
“Check your self before you reck your self”
Great points though.
G-Money
April 7th, 2010
2:40 pm
The Hawks need to come with effort and intensity every game. They do not have the luxury to think of themselves as a team with a great star. They have good athletes who can play well when they are working together as a team. They have an advantage with their athleticism and youth, that has to be translated into defensive hustle and intensity.
tiger woo
April 7th, 2010
2:48 pm
Sorry BirdDawg – gotta disagree with you on the bench comparison:
Below is the list of the top 5 bench players for each team – we are lacking a bit in talent compared to L.A. and Cleveland (in my opinion):
Cleveland:
Anderson Varejao
Delonte West
Leon Powe
Z. Ilgauskas
Anthony Parker / Jamario Moon
L.A.
Lamar Odom
Shannon Brown
Jordan Farmar
Sasha Vujacic
Luke Walton
Atlanta:
Jamal Crawford
Zaza Pachulia
Mo Evans
Joe Smith
Jeff Teague
I will admit that our bench is better than last year’s edition.
GeeMack
April 7th, 2010
2:52 pm
BirdDawg, tiger woo
Phil Jax after 10 rings still hadn’t figured out how to the Lakers to play consistent offensively and defensively.
The Hawks have no where near the talent the Cavs, the Lakers, Magic, or the Spurs. Name 1 future Hall of famer on the Hawks.
There is one thing we are forgetting 2 years ago this team had a losing record. These guys are still learning to win consistently.
JuniperChestnut
April 7th, 2010
2:53 pm
As I stated before, the Hawks BLEW their chance to have the most improved team in basketball and be this years favorites to win the NBA title. During the offseason the Hawks could have acquired Heido Turkelu and Rafer Alsten, which would have given the Hawks the NBA championship. The additions that the Hawks had in offseason were dramatic, but if you add those two hall of fame talents to the mix the results would have been astounding and it would have eliminated ALL OF THE HAWKS CURRENT WEAKNESSES.
BirdDawg
April 7th, 2010
3:08 pm
Tiger Woo,
Other than Lamar Odom, I don’t see any player on the other units that would give the team a significant talent upgrade over what they already have. Anderson Varejao would bring some energy off the bench and Big Z some size, but not major talent. I don’t think either of them would bring much more to the table than Zaza. I wouldn’t choose any of those guards over Jamal and most of the other players produce off of the stars, Kobe/Lebron, that they have on their respective teams. Joe Smith’s age and Jeff Teague’s inexperience are the only real drawbacks to our bench that I can see.
BirdDawg
April 7th, 2010
3:18 pm
GeeMack,
I don’t think future Hall of Famers are an accurate assessment of a teams’ overall talent. The Celtics have three on their current roster, but are neck and neck with the Hawks and are 0-4 against them this season. And for that matter, the Hawks had more All-Stars this season than any of the teams you mentioned except for the Lakers and they had just as many as they did.
Daniel
April 7th, 2010
3:43 pm
DawgNole- Honestly, I am not trying to pick at you, but I still don’t understand how you are differentiating what I said from what you meant. You would consider someone to be stupid who is suprised at an early round loss is different from saying someone is stupidly suprised?!?
Maybe you meant that “people shouldn’t be suprised if the Hawks disappoint our expectations because of a long history of poor playoff performances.”
Still vastly different that being “stupid” or “stupidly suprised” by having reasonable expectations for the team you root for.
Daniel
April 7th, 2010
3:44 pm
Gee,
You know me… I’m comin’ straight out of Decatur… where it is greata and Marta is smarta.
JeJe
April 7th, 2010
3:53 pm
“You can tell how good a coach is by how well and much he uses the media to critique his players. Boy, that is exactly what I want from my coach.”
Do you know who Phil Jackson is?
Calling out players is better than calling players into your office every 3 months to tell them they suck
O'Brien
April 7th, 2010
4:00 pm
JeJe,
Each player is different, so calling them out in the media does not always work.
As for calling out Marvin in the media, Rick Sund talked about him in the media this offseason and said he needs Marvin to step up his game. Woody has talked about him in the media, saying he needs to stop deferring, and be more aggressive. And Woody has also called him into his office recently.
What more can Woody do?
As for the playoffs, regardless of who the Hawks play in the first round, I will be surprised if we dont make it to the second round. After all, we have one of the best home records in the league, and we will have 4 games in ATL.
Against the Celtics 2 years ago, we won all 3 home games in the playoffs, and last year against Miami, although we lost 1 home game, we did win on the road.
I expect a similar performance in the first round this year. Survive and advance.
That being said, if the Hawks dont make it out of the first round, then I will be on Clyde’s bandwagon.
GeeMack
April 7th, 2010
4:03 pm
BirdDawg
The Hawks and Celtic are neck to neck, and the Celtics 2 best players missed a total of 21 games due to injuries this season. How man games you think the Hawks would win if Josh & JJ were out for a combined 21 games.
The Magic has 4 current or recent all-stars((Vince, D12,Rahard, & Jameer), the Celtic sent 3 guys this year (Rando,PP, & KG). Clev (Shaq LBJ Mo Williams, and Big Z) a few years ago.
My point was, there has only been 2 out 60 Championship teams that didn’t feature at least 2 elite players 94 Rockets & the 04 Pistons, all the others had a trio, or a great 1-2 punch. The Hawks don’t have that.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 7th, 2010
4:04 pm
For those of you supporting the idea of signing Manu Ginobili if Joe Johnson leaves, it looks like the Spurs are about to extend his contract.
GeeMack
April 7th, 2010
4:21 pm
Hawks Fans,
During the offseason we all agreed the Hawks would win 50 to 54 games this season.
There was alot of hoping that injuries would slow the Celtics, and it has.
There was alot of hoping the Orlando situation wouldn’t work, but it has.
There was a lot hoping the Shaq experiment in Clevland would back fire, but it hasn’t.
The top 3 teams in the East made better offseason moves, therefore they are performing at a higher rate than the Hawks.
The eastern conference is better this year, and the Hawks play in the most competative division in the east. Yet they were still able to improve there win total from last year.
I’m not sure how some blogger scan fix their mouth to say the coach is not doing a good job.
Can he get better?
Sure, but he has this team in a better position than they were a year ago.
RachaelEvans
April 7th, 2010
4:29 pm
When Marvin was the second player selected out of the draft, right then we should have drafted Marvin Williams straight up for LaBron James. Of course its too late now but could you imagine either Labron James or Chris Paul playing in place of Marvin? That would be totally awesome!
Westurd
April 7th, 2010
4:31 pm
Trade Marvin for a real duck butt……..quack quack
JeJe
April 7th, 2010
4:33 pm
So does Woody just tell marvin once to step up?
STAY ON HIS CASE AND MAKE HIM PLAY BETTER
DawgNole
April 7th, 2010
4:47 pm
Daniel, I believe you’re dwelling too heavily on the word “stupid.” You’re nit-picking the word and its literal meaning. As I indicated earlier, perhaps “ignorant” (of the frachise’s history) would be more appropriate. Forty-plus years of ownership’s same satisfied-with-less-than-a-championship tradition is not a fluke. And our Atlanta pro sports franchises, sadly, are steeped in that tradition. It never fails to surprise me that people actually believe the Hawks have improved beyond their “tradition” of never advancing beyond the second round. I chose to call those people stupid because their beliefs are based on ignorance of–or refusal to acknowledge–the frachise’s well-documented history of failure. Based on that history, expectations of true success (advancing beyond the second round) are not “reasonable” at all; they’re stupid (or ignorant). Again, that doesn’t mean you don’t WANT the team to be successful, but don’t be shocked (or satisfied, for that matter) when they fail once again. That (failure) is the time-honored tradition of all Atlanta major professional sports franchises (with the notable exception of the ‘95 Braves) over the past half-century; thus the label “Losersville.”
northcyde
April 7th, 2010
5:08 pm
JeJe . . . seriously . . . how old are you?
If all it took for a coach to make a player better, is to stay on his case, then everybody in the league would play at a high level every night. You can try to coach up desire and effort, but in the end, the player has to WANT to play with desire and effort.
How many times over the years have you seen Phil Jackson, Kobe Bryant, and any other NBA commentator talk about LAMAR ODOM, his lack of aggressiveness? Everybody in the world has either told or commented about this trait that Odom continues to show.
Has it helped him elevate his game? I would have to say NO. Lamar does what he always does . . . shows flashes of greatness every blue moon, but doesn’t play nowhere near his potential as a basketball player. From a skill set standpoint, he’s one of the most versatile basketball pllayers in the NBA. From an aggressiveless and desire standpoint, he’s one of the most inconsistent players in the league.
So for a guy like Marvin, who has FAR LESS TALENT than Odom, it becomes a HUGE problem. It also makes Marvin the likely target to spend long stretches on the bench, especially seeing that both JJ and Mo Evans can play his position.
And to Woody’s credit, he hasn’t hesitated to send Marvin right to the bench when he’s unproductive.
( side note: . . . and people shouldn’t act like Mo was playing well enough before the All-Star break, to take Marvin’s spot. He JUST started coming around to being more like the old MO in the last 3 – 4 weeks or so. )
Clyde
April 7th, 2010
5:45 pm
Woody quit on Boris Diaw in his second year. Now Marvin is in his 4th and has shown no signs of progress, but Woody puts him in the starting lineup.
FIRE WOODY
JeJe
April 7th, 2010
6:29 pm
I am 13 years old . . .
cp
April 7th, 2010
6:37 pm
lol Clyde. I think with Marvin, Woodson really wants the kid to succeed. He has done everything he can with him but its just not working. I think a change of scenery might be the best option for Marvin. This is his what 5th year? I don’t think we need another year to find out the same thing we know already. He is an inconsistent, average sf who isn’t aggressive.
Ken Strickland
April 7th, 2010
7:40 pm
People, the idea that Woodson needed to do something to help Marvin become more productive came out of his mouth, not mine, and so far he’s done nothing that anyone has see. It would be different if Marvin had a history of not producing, but we all know that isn’t the case. If the 2 starters that control the ball and the OFF, Bibby and JJ, don’t routinely call plays that include Marvin in the OFF, and Woodson has acknowledged on several occasions he needs to be included more, WHO IN THE HELL SHOULD BE BLAMED BUT THE HC, AND WHO’S RESPONSIBILITY IT IS TO MAKE THINGS WORK FOR EVERYONE?
If a play is called for Smoove, Horford, Bibby or JJ, other than run the play the way it was designed and for who it was designed, what in the hell is Marvin suppose to do? He’s a total team player, and unlike JJ, he’s not going to disrupt the OFF to go ISO. He’ll do what he’s asked to do, and no more. You can’t have a team full of players who go off on their own like JJ and Bibby, and even Crawford, have often done.
The only reason Smoove and Horford have gotten more touches and opportunities is due to go inside more because of Bibby’s almost total OFF meltdown, and Woody’s insistence on continuing to play him heavy mins. This idea of crediting Woodson when everything goes right and blaming the players for everything that goes wrong is BS.
This team is much better than last yrs team in every respect. We have lost the fewest gms to injury than any team in the NBA this yr. Yet, we’re struggling to win 50 gms, after winning 47 last yr. We should have past 50 wins before now. THIS ATLANTA HAWK TEAM HAS PROGRESSED BEYOND WOODSON’S LIMITED COACHING ABILITY.
terrell
April 7th, 2010
8:01 pm
Why is Marvin still in the NBA?
terrell
April 7th, 2010
8:26 pm
We’re up by 2 on a D-League team.