Atlanta Hawks: Fewer Worries?
Three weeks and nine games until the regular season ends and the Hawks still have issues. But there also are a couple things you might have worried about a few weeks back that look more promising now.
First, though, the issues. Every team headed for the playoffs has them, of course, but the Hawks have more things to worry about than Cleveland and Orlando and maybe even Boston. Tops among them is that the defense just hasn’t gotten any better, ranking in the middle of the pack and threatening to finish at or near its pecking order in 2007-08.
Notice that Orlando, Boston and Cleveland are all significantly better defensively than the Hawks. Also note that potential first-round opponents Charlotte, Milwaukee and Miami are also better at getting stops. I’m still looking for evidence of the Hawks’ defensive disposition that I heard about before I arrived. I’ve simply not seen anything like the singleminded, obsessive defensive culture I witnessed with Pat Riley’s Heat. Now that I’ve been around for a decent minute I eventually plan to blog on why I think that might be and, no, that theory will not consist of “Woody sucks” with a period.
The Hawks likely are going to have to be much better defensively in the playoffs if they want to get through to the East finals. If you want to be optimistic and say they will get better at it, here are two issues you might have been gnashing your teeth over at one point that now look to be positives (at least to me).
Bibby might yet give the Hawks a lift. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
Bibby is better
Have you noticed something different about Bibby?
“He’s had a little bit more bounce in his step and he’s been a lot more active,” J.J. said. “That makes us a deadlier team. I’m glad he’s been real amped up here at the end of the season.”
Look, I get the love for Rook’, particularly those who don’t necessarily want him to supplant Bibby but merely supplement him as a situational defender/pace pusher/drive-to-the-bucketer. But can’t we at least agree that even if Teague got more chances to do those things, it’s still more important for the Hawks that Bibby be Bibby?
Remember, the Kings won 61 games and went to the Western Conference finals (where they got jobbed) only after they got Bibby. I’m not saying he’s still that player, of course, but the guy has played in 69 playoff games. He wants to win. He knows how to do it.
Yes, Bibby can be a liability on defense even with the switches. That’s not going to get better at this point. At least Woody gives him the hook when it becomes too hard to hide him. But Bibby has been and can be a great asset in the playoffs with his spot-up shooting, leadership, vet savvy and a good sense of how to keep his teammates happy and involved. He’s more assertive and consistent now.
“I know coach cut my time down but I figure when I am out there I need to, as best I can, get aggressive,” he said. “I think it makes it easier on everyone else if I get involved and make things happen for myself and the team.”
This is good.
The bench is better
Whether your complaint was that Woody didn’t use his reserves enough, didn’t use them correctly during the flow of the game, that the bench guys weren’t producing when he did give him a shot or all of the above. . . lately those concerns should have subsided if not retreated.
Mo’s minutes are up in March. So are Zaza’s. Even Teague’s minutes have managed to pretty much hold steady even as the playoffs approach. Joe Smith might be another matter but, hey, everybody can’t play.
The reserves are playing consistently now, and Woody has said all along he would use his them more if that happened. For a while it seemed to be a chicken-and-egg deal with “minutes” as the chicken and “production” as the egg with some circular logic taking hold. But now the chicken and egg appear to be in harmony and–behold!–a rotation with defined roles and expectations has been born.
The development has helped to create cohesion and chemistry with the reserves. The starters, too, seem to get energized by watching the subs do their thang from the bench.
“The talk with the second unit is to have fun,” Zaza said. “If you are paying attention, you see after every made bucket it is high-fives. We really don’t care who is going to score. We all know Jamal is the go-to guy (but) we share the ball. We try to have fun. If we make mistake, we just keep playing and bring the energy. As a team, we benefit for that.”
This, too, is good.
MC
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127 comments Add your comment
Hawk n the Ham
March 29th, 2010
6:51 pm
It’s a wait and see act with Woody and the bench come playoff time. Last year during the Heat series, most of the games were tight. Which in turn, Woody rode the starters hard during that series. If the 1st round is anything like last year, Woody will skip quality bench time, and the starters will be wore out if and when, they make it to the 2nd round. Only time will tell.
VenomSpitter
March 29th, 2010
6:52 pm
Things I would rather do than watch Marvin play:
French Kizz a Grizzly bear
Kick a Bull in the ballsac
Watch 2 Hippos deepthroat each other
NUNNA YO BIZNEZZ
March 29th, 2010
6:55 pm
LMAO@VENOM SPITTER!!
Ree Roe
March 29th, 2010
6:58 pm
Great article as usual MC. Our defense, especially our transistion defense, has been problematic these past few months. From what you’re seeing is our defense struggling b/c of our switching, bad rotations or just lack of effort/intensity? We’ve only got 9 games to get it figured out…
BTW, what are we gonna do about Marvin? I kno I’m one of the main ones to clown on Marvin, but just to be serious for a second, has Woody run out of things to say to Marvin? Is it a mental thing with him? What do you think we need to do to get Marvin playing at a high level goin into the playoffs?
-REElent to Roe!!!
Ree Roe
March 29th, 2010
7:02 pm
@ Hawk N the Ham, most of the games in the Hawks/Heat series last yr were tight? Huh? What series were you watching? All of those games were decided by double digits & except for a few stretches, they weren’t close games at all.
-REEticulate it for Roe!!!
NUNNA YO BIZNEZZ
March 29th, 2010
7:02 pm
THE HAWKS WILL BE THE HAWKS..
I AM NOT LIKE OTHERS AND THINK THIS TEAM WILL SHIFT INTO ANOTHER GEAR AND PLAY LIKE WE ALL HOPE AND DREAM,AND THATS TO BE ONE OF THE UP AND COMING ELITE TEAMS..
CAPS OFF NOW..
i don’t see it happening..if we have not seen it during the season,we won’t see it come playoff time..
what we will see is:
a tired starting 5 by the 3rd game of the 1st round..
the bench will be a non factor..starters will get 35+ minutes each..well,bibbs and marvin will hover around 30-33..but,thats its..look for a 7,maybe 8 man rotation..
players we won’t see during the playoffs play”
randmo,collins as usual…
players who we might see every 2 games will be:
teague,west,while joe smith and mo evans alternate every other game and will be the 8 player to play..
tired legs will show up after game 3 in the 1st round if not sooner..
and woody will be out of here no more than 48hours after we’re knocked out of the playoffs..
Hawk n the Ham
March 29th, 2010
7:06 pm
@ REE ROE
Yes, I was being a bit sarcastic on Woody. Sorry, I should have used some kind of cute little emoticon at the end of my sentance.
Rod from College Park
March 29th, 2010
7:18 pm
Ree Roe,
BTW, what are we gonna do about Marvin? I kno I’m one of the main ones to clown on Marvin, but just to be serious for a second, has Woody run out of things to say to Marvin? Is it a mental thing with him? What do you think we need to do to get Marvin playing at a high level goin into the playoffs?
Ducks don’t become eagles. His playoff averages are much worse than his season averages. Teams might actually defend him in the playoffs.
Barrington
March 29th, 2010
7:35 pm
The Hawks will be BETTER defensively, I know this because the players love to be on the center stage, and WE can beat anyone at home. The question is, can we beat any of the big 3? I say YES. Last year, Horford and someone else (BRAIN FOG) were injured which was why we got swept. As long as we’re healthy, I think we can take Cleveland and/or Orlando to six games, maybe more. We took Boston to 7 games and they were the eventual champs. The Lakers didn’t even take them to 7 games!
Tony from Stone Mountain
March 29th, 2010
7:45 pm
If Marvin was to show up in the playoffs. The Hawks would be deadly. I say call a sports psychiatrist. It worked for John Smoltz.
cdog
March 29th, 2010
7:55 pm
AFTER EVERYONE HAS THEIR SAY AND WHEN EVERYTHING IS DONE THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE PLAYERS OR COACHES BUT RICK SUND’S FAILURES TO BRING IN THE NECCESSARY PIECES NEEDED TO BE CHAMPIONS.
UGA
March 29th, 2010
7:56 pm
Who do the Hawks want in the first round?
Charlotte, Milwaukee or Miami
Cannon
March 29th, 2010
7:59 pm
I just don’t see this Hawk team making it past the 2nd round unless we get the 2rd seed, and Orlando is shocked in the 1st round. This team has not figured out how to win on the road even against some of the bottom feeders (ex: @Knicks @Philly). And possibly even worse than that we can’t close out games on the road. @Miami, @Golden State @Toronto @Milwaukee All recent games where the Hawks held a 10+ point lead late and just totally blew it. I’m fully expecting our 1st round series to go 7 games no matter who we play.
Astro Joe
March 29th, 2010
8:06 pm
Anytime someone says around here “well, let’s see what happens during the playoffs” that should be translated as “I have no criticism now but I refuse to say something positive. Additionally, I reserve the right to complain later”.
@MC, thanks for pointing out some of the improved trends, some folk watch every game and can’t see it unless they read it in print.
Ree Roe
March 29th, 2010
8:24 pm
Good points Astro
@ UGA, personally I don’t care. The Hawks should beat whoever they play in the first round. I’m more concerned about us playing & competing at a high level entering the playoffs.
-REEpeat it to Roe!!!
Delbert D.
March 29th, 2010
8:27 pm
Let Marvin be the designated hacker and Zaza can get more rebounds
UGA
March 29th, 2010
8:30 pm
I agree.
I just know Miami has only lost twice this month. That and Wade could be too much for the Hawks. The Bucks should lack the experience in the playoffs.
O'Brien
March 29th, 2010
8:32 pm
I have been calling for Teague to get more PT (especially in the second half of the game). However, I must agree that Bibby has looked much better of late. And we will need Bibby in the playoffs.
Our players dont give the consistent effort needed on defense. I dont know if they are tired, I dont know if they are not communicating, I dont know if they are in a hurry to get back on offense.
But with Woody being a defensive minded coach who continually preaches defense and rebounding, it is disappointing to see our defensive struggles.
We give up lots of points in the paint, and we are not consistent rebounders. I hope that once we get to the playoffs, our increased intensity and focus plus the fact that there are no back to back games will improve our defense.
Our bench has played better recently, and Woody has given them more PT. I hope both parties will continue to do what they are doing.
SWAT Native
March 29th, 2010
8:37 pm
I would like to add that I think that the string of down to the wire games is going to make the Hakws that much tougher for their playoff run.
NUNNA YO BIZNEZZ
March 29th, 2010
8:41 pm
naw cdog..how can you say that when you ask for a specific kind of player and he brings in players who fit the bill,and you don’t play them..then,we will never know if they fit or not..
sund is not billy knight and i think billy knew best..thats probably why he he refused to draft a top notch PG,like a derron williams,CP,or others..because he knew woody would not and does not have the patience to coach a rook..
look at his poor job with teague..these players go off in the post season and work with other former players and other coaches..
Grandad
March 29th, 2010
8:41 pm
northcyde:
You can’t be serious? Vanardo or Chism? 1st round?
Surely you mean’t 2nd round?
I like Vanardo, just not in the 1st round.
Do you realize Sherron Collins:[(5-11 ?) is 215 lbs.] [JV 6-9/210.]
For those who think Marv has zero trade value – I disagree!
He, for his age, actually has a good contract.
He & Josh Childress if ‘He’ wishe to return, could both be trade chips.
Because J.C. would have to be a sign & trade, I do not think he could be included with another player in a package.
poo
March 29th, 2010
8:47 pm
fire woody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Billy D
March 29th, 2010
8:48 pm
You wrote about the bench being better and didn’t mention Crawford once. Without JC the bench scores about 10-15 points. Jamal’s 18 a game is such a convenience and all other opponents do fear when he comes in and is just another offensive threat. Without JC not only is the bench signifantly worse, the team is.
O'Brien
March 29th, 2010
8:50 pm
Grandad,
Who would trade for a SF (Marvin) who makes over $7 mil annually, and does not do anything well? Name me 5 teams for which Marvin would start right now.
And which team would want to pay him that much to be a bench player?
And I assume northcyde meant second round for Varnado. First round, we could use a backup SF (assuming we dont resign Chills). I think Paul George would be an option. If the big guy from Kansas falls, maybe he could be a first round option too.
My 3 Cents
March 29th, 2010
8:52 pm
The Hawks Defense is a screen switching weak side helping zone covering scheme that has WORKED for the most part. The Hawks will be a 50 win team by April 15th. They have a Payroll ranked 22nd. The attendance although still a huge ISSUE, is better than it has been the last 5 years. No matter how much we want them to win a Championship, they probably have no chance. NOT because Woody is bad Coach or Bibby cant play D. The word is MONEY. The NBA is a controlled marketing machine. King James had a total of THREE fouls through 3 games last year against the Hawks in the playoffs. The NBA wants to and will market Kobe Lebron and D Howard. They really have no choice given the Economic situation we are ALL in. Fire Woody?? for what? Great players make GREAT coaches. We are a bad defensive team?? So What?? Im just Happy to call them my home TEAM compared to 6 years ago. Then Maybe in a couple years the League will be able to Crown a Champion based on The Best Wins!!!
NRBQ
March 29th, 2010
8:59 pm
It’s FEWER worries. LESS worry would be okay.
Like fewer dollars, less money.
Or, fewer writers, less journalism.
Grandad
March 29th, 2010
8:59 pm
Joe Mama/Sybil/Truth Serum:
In all seriousness & with all due respect;
[other than his percieved lack of shot blocking(in your eyes)]
what is it about Al that causes you to loathe him so vehemently.
The rest of the clear thinking basketball world almost unanimously
endorses him as one of the top 5 ‘young’ players in the league
regardless of position.
C’mon now, not a lot of blather, here’s your chance for a serious
answer. I expect, you to do well. [Don't just copy & paste]
formulate & articulate. You’re a bright guy. I have faith in you.
Blast
March 29th, 2010
9:06 pm
Hawks fans,
Y’all crazy, man!
VenomSpitter
March 29th, 2010
9:09 pm
I think we need to get Darington Hobson in the draft
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Darington-Hobson-5833/
I’m pretty sure he’s already better than Marvin
Mike is Back
March 29th, 2010
9:23 pm
@MC, true on your assessment of Bibby impact on the playoff and recent resurgence…I think the limited minutes gave him a chance to get some stamina back. He’s looking frisky lately…that alone could help with the defense.
I think the things that causes the biggest breakdown on defense…is the long jump shots when teams go to zone on the Hawks. That is something that can be improved upon before the playoff.
Getting Marvin going or knowing that there is a back up plans for Marvin is my biggest concern. I would rather see Moe given a shot instead of playing too many minutes with Bibby and JC on the floor together…it puts too much pressure on the front line guys on defense.
Woody is making some moves…they are starting to get some cohesion…I think he will come up with some wrinkles for the playoff.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grandad
March 29th, 2010
9:36 pm
O’B:
Here is a list of teams Marv could start for:
As I’ve said many times I think Marv will flourish under a dif. coach.
*Probably would start.
**Got money to take on contract.
***loking for a [3].
****Marv would thrive playing for this team’s coach or system.
*****team getting old/needs younger, less expensive players.
Knicks****
Lakers** [plus-system/triangle/Jackson]
Boston*****
New Jersey*
Detroit*****
Washington*
Minnesota***actively looking to trade for a [3]
Phoenix*****
Clips*
New Orleans*
Milwaukee [Salmons has a player option ???]
Miami*
SA Spurs [****] & [*****]
The draft & other criteria would impact this list of course.
Zach
March 29th, 2010
9:57 pm
Mike Bibby is a saint! And thank you MC for finally giving him some respect!
Section 303
March 29th, 2010
10:08 pm
I’ve never understood the Bibby bashing. It was almost as if some were waiting for him to go into a cold spell and then pounce. A self fulling prophecy, if you will.
Looking at the potential playoff opponets for round one, got me thinking. The talking heads can stop now the the NBA East sucks line. It doesn’t suck. There are no teams in the league that would lineup to play the Bucks or Bobcats right now. These teams are the 5th and 6th seeds. So, these lazy commentators need to get a new story line. I’m not sure if the East is better than the West. If it isn’t, the gap is not that far between the two.
Looking forward to the Laker game on Wednesday. Always one of my favorite games of the year. After that, would just assume fast forward through the rest of the season and get to the good stuff! Almost playoff time, everyone!
Atlanta Fawks
March 29th, 2010
10:13 pm
So I noticed in the Hawks playoff ads the Cavs, Celtics and Heat. Too bad we won’t see any of those teams since we will be ousted first round.
Clyde
March 29th, 2010
10:24 pm
FIRE WOODY
northcyde
March 29th, 2010
10:35 pm
Grandad . . O’Brien . . . I meant who I meant.
Varnado . . in the 1st round.
6-9 . . . 210 right now, can easily turn into 6-9 . . . 220 – 225 by the time the season starts. His lack of size is not a concern, seeing that he’s going to be a situational player at best on the Hawks.
There is no doubt that with the rebounding and defensive difficlties this team has on the frontline at times, that they should either get a defensive center or a defensive PF.
The only issues that he’ll have in the NBA are:
a) Is he strong enough and have the DESIRE to battle in the NBA?
b) Does he have the lateral quickness to guard more perimeter-oriented PFs?
When Varnado goes to the combines, he’s going to measure long, and rate out to be an athletic freak when it comes to vertical jump and speed. His lack of strength will drive hs stock down.
But if he’s available in the late 1st round, you definitely take that guy if you’re the Hawks. We’re losing Joe Smith and have a team need for rebounding and could use another shot blocker.
We passed on Blair last year, because he was small and had a history of injury. LOL . . . Lord knows we could use a Blair on this squad right now, because he’s turned out to be the role playing BEAST that I thought he would. Jersey was stupid not taking him as a lottery pick, seeing that they had a glaring team need for a guy like that.
ILL-logical
March 29th, 2010
10:39 pm
After seeing Joe’s two consecutive 3 point airballs ,I wondered if Joe had already put a for sale sign on his house?
Is Ed. Too.Tall. Jones. Too Tall?
Dezz Nuttz
March 29th, 2010
10:48 pm
Grandad You say you have faith in T.S., Joe Mama and some one name sybil who Ive never seen post on this blog page.
So here’s my question,I want you to give me an intellectual, honest answer.
If you have faith in T.S. and Joe Mama, do you also have faith in Dezz Nuttz? This is your chance for a serious answer. Dont just copy and paste but give me your deepest impression of Dezz Nuttz.
Youre a bright guy.
northcyde
March 29th, 2010
10:52 pm
Shelden was strong as a ox, but he didn’t have the desire, nor the work ethic to be the type of dominant rebounder that he was in college. And his lack of athleticism got exposed BIG TIME on the NBA level.
As for drafting a SF . . . where is he going to play, especially if JJ is re-signed?
- Marvin will still be here
- Mo can play SF
- If JJ is here, he’ll get his share of minutes at SF
So where is a drafted SF going to play, and how many minutes can he possibly get on the Hawks next year?
A late 1st round rookie, more than likely, is not going to be able to displace one of our SFs ( even if Woody isn’t the coach here ). Unless you believe that the rookie could take Mo Evans spot? The time to draft a SF, will be in 2011, when we have to make a decison on Evans and possibly Crawford.
Dezz Nuttz
March 29th, 2010
10:55 pm
northcyde Thats a good strategy to take the focus off the need for a center by pretending as if josh is not an excellent defensive power forward. The only problem is every one knows josh is a top 7 shot blocking specialist who put fear into his opponents when he is near the rim. Unlike Horford who helps the opposition score by interlocking his finger while cupping his hands and giving spring lifts to itty-bitty guards so they can Dunk on his Aize.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 29th, 2010
10:58 pm
“Here is a list of teams Marv could start for:
As I’ve said many times I think Marv will flourish under a dif. coach.”
That may be, but O’Brien’s main point is that nobody is going to pay him $7.5 million a year for the next 4 years, especially in this economic climate with a new CBA looming, to see if he might flourish in a different situation. Unless the Hawks trade him for an equally undesirable contract, like Hedo Turkoglu, or significantly sweeten the deal with first-round picks, Marvin is pretty much untradeable.
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
March 29th, 2010
11:02 pm
Great article on Bibby, MC. Very well done.
Rod from College Park
March 29th, 2010
11:04 pm
Grandad,
I see you stopped taking your meds. Marvin would not start for any of those teams. Maybe the Nets, I doubt that. I think Yi is a better prospect. At l
Michael Cunningham
March 29th, 2010
11:12 pm
@ Ree Roe: re: defense . . . imo, it’s just been effort and focus. from my subjective observation i’d say one thing the Hawks are not good at on D is closing out on shooters. when i see them struggle with it it’s because they are late to recognize the rotation and, once they do, just not very urgent about getting out.
re: Marvin . . . good questions. what can Woody do? when he said some guys just need to find answers on their own i’m guessing Marvin is included in that group.
@ cdog: i wouldn’t say it the way you did but
@ AJ: this is a good team and there are legitimate reasons to think it can be better. part of the intrigue about this team is the unknown. with Orlando, Cleveland, and Boston we pretty much know who they are (if not exactly what to expect from Boston). i am looking forward to seeing what happens with the Hawks. they have something to prove but that doesn’t mean they can’t do it.
@ Billy D: true, i should have addressed J.C. i don’t really consider him to be a bench player in the traditional sense. he plays starter’ minutes and has a bigger role than Bibby. so when i talk about the Hawks’ bench i really mean everyone bur Jamal.
@ Mike is Back: good point on the saved energy for Bibby.
@ Zach: hey, i tend to give vets like Bibby the benefit of the doubt. i don’t think i really dwelled much on his struggles or criticized Woody sticking with him because so many times i’ve seen guys like him come around when it counts.
@ NRBQ: ha, nice. you are correct, i was wrong. fixed . . .
JeJe
March 29th, 2010
11:21 pm
Watch Marvin’s interviews — listen to the rumors –> The guy does not want to be a star in this league. He is content with being average. He has no fire in his personality/game –> He doesn’t want the ball down the stretch. He doesn’t want plays run for him. He’s frail/awkward. He is not strong…He’s not a good defender.
he is the worst starting SF in the NBA, and Bibby is probably a bottom 5 starting PG
NRBQ
March 29th, 2010
11:53 pm
Mike:
Those damned headline writers!
(wink-wink)
cp
March 30th, 2010
12:08 am
From the last blog. northcyde I see your point. Chills was better coming off the bench than Marvin would have been. Chills finished the games so that’s all that mattered. O’Brien I understand what you’re saying about Marvin’s aggressiveness and etc from the last blog but I meant pressure more from a mental aspect I guess. This season Marvin is missing shots he routinely hit last season. Maybe he got his contract and got complacent or maybe he is trying to live up to it I have no idea at this point….And I wanted to grab Travis Outlaw for the cheap but northcyde made a great point about it being no spot for him if we bring Joe back because we also still have have Mo too. I’ve always liked Outlaws game. He does a lot of things I wish Marvin could do like create his own shot and finish at the rim with some authority.
Grandad
March 30th, 2010
12:11 am
N.D.: There are alot of teams (and I checked) needing to get younger, that have much worse contracts than Marv. Guys, he is only ‘23′.
I realize the fan base has soured on him here.
I truly believe there will be coaches with egos big enough to say to themselves “I can get make that kid a player” and if you don’t think I’m right on that one then you don’t know the mentality & egos of coaches. look, I’m not even defending Marv anymore. But, he has shown enough in the past that he is tradeable. [think Jeff Francouer].
Not what we got for him, but he is tearing it up this spring. Sometimes, getting outa’ town, change of scenery is a tonic.
R.f.C.P. – I’m still on my meds & that is why I’m so lucid.
You should actually be with me on this one. What? Do you want him to stay now? All those teams had an asterisk indicating a level of interest
whether, financial, ageing team, looking for specific need, etc..
The Hawks are seen as an up and coming athletic team and Marv is a starter on our team. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so lets let
them behold.
If you could trade Marv & our pick to move up high enough to get X.Henry, you would do it wouldn’t you? All those teams I listed, were
potential trade partners. I never suggested Marv straight up for
Tim Duncan but I sure as heck would try to put together a package for Kevin Love. [Minn. is seeking a '3'] Perhaps Marv, + a drft pick,
+rights to J.C.,+ Zaza, whatever, You never know. Thats all I’m sayin’.
Grandad
March 30th, 2010
12:16 am
*[J.C. = Josh Childress] / (NOT) J.C. – (JAMAL CRAWFORD) !!!
Grandad
March 30th, 2010
12:19 am
Dezz – I asked you 1st.
I was treating you with respect.
Now, act like a gentleman, please.
I asked nicely.
Grandad
March 30th, 2010
12:31 am
northcyde:
They have a wgt. rm. @ Miss. St.
You don’t think, Rick has tried for 4 yrs.
to put some meat on his bones.
Some young men are predisposed to be skinny.
I like Jarvis if he’s there in the 2nd round.
Chism, can’t play. Sorry. Poor man’s Sean May.
Just an opinion:
Mine’s no better than your’s.
Hopefully Udoh will fall in our lap.
I enjoy discussing draft.
Don’t get pissed ’cause I rattle off sometimes.
Sybil is back
March 30th, 2010
1:06 am
Joe mama
I will not be reading your “bubba crew” like hater aid article in the future Mike con&ham. NO, I did not read this one either, I scanned.
If you really want to impress us, stop reading AND stop posting.
O'Brien
March 30th, 2010
7:39 am
northcyde,
I like Varnado too, but I always thought of him as a second rounder (I was surprised when Blair did not get drafted in the first round). I checked nbadraft.net, and I didn’t realize they have Varnado projected to go #32.
That’s not far from #25 where the Hawks pick so maybe he could be a first round option after all. FWIW, They currently have the the Hawks drafting 6′10″ 235 PF Larry Sanders from VCU (with 7′7″ wingspan).
However, I prefer Varnado becuase he is a senior, and he’s played in the SEC. Another PF who might fall is Lawal from GT (if he comes out).
Grandad,
Let me ask it this way. If Marvin was a free agent right now, which of those teams would offer him a 4 year, $7.5 mil per year contract? Now as much as I bash Marvin, I am a Hawks fan first, so I hope he steps it up in the playoffs, because he could be a huge lift for us.
After winning in Boston the night before, the Spurs lost to NJ on the road. I would imagine that their fans are going crazy right now. I know if it was the Hawks who lost to the Nets this late in the season, we would be all over them lol.
JeJe
March 30th, 2010
8:08 am
Watch Marvin’s interviews — listen to the rumors –> The guy does not want to be a star in this league. He is content with being average. He has no fire in his personality/game –> He doesn’t want the ball down the stretch. He doesn’t want plays run for him. He’s frail/awkward. He is not strong…He’s not a good defender….
he is the worst starting SF in the NBA, and Bibby is probably a bottom 5 starting PG
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
8:26 am
MC,
Good article. My biggest problem with Hawks fans, is they think a coach that leads a team to 50 win should be fired. Eventhough helped the team get better than the year before.
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
8:32 am
Grandad,
What qualities does Tom Izzo posess that would make him a better coach than Woody?
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
8:38 am
What is the Bubba Crew?
Daniel
March 30th, 2010
8:38 am
what’s up everybody!!! I have been unable to blog for a couple of weeks, but it is good to be back. I see not much has changed here. MC- I have noticed improved play from Bibby as well and it is important to point that out.
As far as defense goes, I think the team’s first quarter effort has been the biggest issue. I mean Indy had what 33 in the first? The lack of intensity is the biggest issue, but we saw them focused from the gate against Orlando so we know this team CAN play stiffling D, they just drift too often. This has been my main problem with the team all season (we would be much closer to Orlando if we played with more effort consistently), but that is too late now. Can and Will they turn it on in the playoffs? I certainly hope so. If they do…. look for a ECF appearance.
Daniel
March 30th, 2010
8:41 am
Gee- Bubba Crew= anyone who disagrees with truth-serum or one of his other names.
JeJe
March 30th, 2010
8:46 am
GeeMack,
You obviously did not see Carlisle get fired in Detroit
JeJe
March 30th, 2010
9:02 am
Marvin doesn’t need a sports psychologist.
He doesn’t want to be good. Listen to him talk. Watch him play. The guy doesn’t want to win
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
9:12 am
JeJe
I did, but his firing wasn’t legit. They fired him, brought in Larry Brown, and still had to get Rasheed Wallace to get better. Again you don’t fire a coach when the team is getting better. The Hawks are better than a year ago.
ILL-logical
March 30th, 2010
9:41 am
A theory on defensive intensity regarding the first quarter performance of the Atlantaa Hawks basketball team:
The starters know that over the last two seasons had to log major minutes because of the lack of bench participation,therefore they attempt to pace themselves for the game /season.The issue is most acute in the case of PF Josh Smith who is the only Hawk that offers any shotblocking skill. In addition to guarding his man he has to roam the paint to protect it from the advances of penetrating guards who are constantly slipping through the porous defence of the Hawk’s guards/ escourted to the basket by mojor domos ZaZa and Marvin.
While this weakness has been noted by several of the team’s opposing coaches, to date, very little has been done to address the situation on the part of the Hawks.
Daniel
March 30th, 2010
9:53 am
Interesting theory Ill, except that by allowing poor teams to hang around and/or have a lead. The starters log MORE minutes, end up expending MORE energy in the end. So, if they actually are thoughtfully “pacing” themselves, then they are using poor logic. Plus, the starters don’t log more minutes than average and they are one of the younger teams in the league. So, that is a pretty weak excuse, to me.
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
10:13 am
ILL-logical
With all the losing the guys on this roseter has experienced. Playing with intensity should be an afterthought.
I expect a lack of intensity from teams like the 2010 Lakers or the 2008 Spurs. Why? Because after winning a title the focus is just not there.
The Hawks have so much to prove they have no room to lack intensity defensively or offensively.
Hawk n the Ham
March 30th, 2010
10:27 am
Bibby better be careful how much he starts shooting 3s if he has found his stroke. Last time Bibby got on a roll, Nique screamed “HEAT CHECK!”, and they turned on the fire alarm at Phillips. Careful Nique, careful.
Ken Strickland
March 30th, 2010
10:33 am
Woodson is a creature of habit, and when things become intense, like in the playoffs, he tends to get too involved with the officials if something is going wrong and doesn’t do much coaching. He just rides the backs of his starters and lets the chips fall where they may, then blames the players for lack of effort, DEF, or both if we lose.
We all know he’s going to stick with his beloved switching DEF, and teams are going to target Bibby, Crawford, Smoove and Horford when they end up in unfavorable matchups. Has anyone else noticed how teams never involve JJ or Marvin in their pick and rolls, or try to take advantage of any matchups involving them? That’s because they’re both good enough defensively to effectively guard most players, which is why Woody insists on playing Marvin extended mins even if he’s not producing offensively. During the playoffs, Woodson has got to keep his butt on the bench more and study the gm, instead of focusing on his players and the refs.
He has to watch what the other team is doing and then counter, instead of continuously barking at the refs and his players for not being able to overcome disadvantagous situations created by him. He just can’t continue forcing his players to continue playing his beloved switching DEF when the opposition is successfully exploiting it, like he’s done continuously during the regular season.
During the playoffs, DEF becomes an absolute necessity and Woodson has to limit our DEF liabilities, which means less switching DEF, less Bibby and more Teague, in certain situations. When we have a lead coming down the stretch, we need more DEF instead of OFF, which means we need Teagues DEF ability more than we need Bibby’s 3pt shooting ability. Our OFF hasn’t been the cause of us giving up leads. The lack of effective DEF has been the culprit, AND JTEAGUE, NOT MBIBBY, GIVES US THE DEF WE NEED AT PG.
Woodson has got to overcome his biased ignorance toward Teague, and rookie PG’s in general, if we’re going to have a successful playoff run. He just can’t allow his stupid, stubborn idea of what Teague doesn’t do well to continue preventing him from taking full advantage of what he does do well, while hurting the team by playing Bibby extended mins and ignoring the things he doesn’t do well.
Most NBA HC’s could lead this team to the playoffs and a winning record. Woodson’s fate as our HC shouldn’t be determined by his performance during the regular season, but during the playoffs, when overall coaching ability is at a premium. He certainly hasn’t done anything during the regular season with any degree of consistency to indicate he’s up to the task.
I CERTAINLY HOPE A LIGHT COMES ON IN HIS STUBBORN HEAD AND HE TAKES CHARGE OF THIS TEAM AND HIS OVERALL COACHING RESPONSIBILITIES AND LEADS IT TO THE EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS, AT THE VERY LEAST. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
ILL-logical
March 30th, 2010
10:39 am
@Daniel: Just a theory but I agree that this lack of intensity doesn’t make sense in the context of the stated goal to “do something special” this year.
@GeeMack:again, I agree that there should be more not less focus but the fact remains that there is a noted lack of focus.
A thought: maybe there are competing agendas on the team; Joe wants a new contract and maybe a different address; Al wants to get more touches to continue his All Star status; Marvin-who knows what his thought proces is/ My point is that for whatever the reason , a self proclaimed defensive team, coached by an avowed defensive coach is not playing consistently good defense at a critical juncture of the season. and ,for me, that is a concern.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter.
MsDee
March 30th, 2010
10:41 am
I notice sometimes that Woody would sub Mario for Crawford during DEF times and put Crawford back in during OFF times…why not do the same for Bibby and Teague. For DEF put Teague in and for OFF put Bibby back in.
northcyde
March 30th, 2010
11:01 am
GeeMack . . . school em man.
People forget that Detroit was nowhere near a championship squad simply because they brought Brown in. It wasn’t until they brought in Sheed, that the Pistons really took off. The defensive presence he brought to that team put them over the top.
And the difference with Woody, is that people around here would can Woody, and even replace him with an unproven assistant coach, if it came to that.
Hawks need to win 53 games to be the 4th winningest Hawk team in Atlanta history ( not counting St. Louis ). People around here act like we have some long storied history of excellence around here.
Just think, people will call for Woody’s head, if he doesn’t achieve something that no other coach in Atlanta Hawk history has accomplished . . . and that is get to the Eastern Cnference Finals.
T.C
March 30th, 2010
11:19 am
Bibby amped up? i don’t see that one bit.Bibby don’t have DEFENCE and he is very inconsistant,one game he’s on three games he sucks,two games he’s on,5 games he sucks.I would have traded him(bibby)and marvin williams and got a real point guard in return and let evans play marvins role.
O'Brien
March 30th, 2010
11:33 am
northcyde,
I can only speak for myself, but what I am looking for from the Hawks and Woody, is no matter who we play in the second round, we need to be competitive (we were not competitive against the Cavs last year). It would be nice if we dont get blown out, but the important thing to me is that we win at least 2 games in the second round.
Ken S,
Another defensive quality that Teague does not get enough credit for is his ability to chase down a player from behind (for example, the block/foul on Granger). So instead of giving up a layup/dunk, the other team might have to earn it at the line, or Teague might even get a block.
But our offense has cost us games too. There have been 13 games ( or 14) where we have scored 19 points or less in the fourth quarter. Our record in those games is 2-11. (In my head, I remember Woody saying “we can’t control our record”. When was that, season 1 or 2?).
But the common denominator when that happens is our offense goes stagnant, no ball movement, and lots of ISOs.
Our defense and fourth quarter offensive execution will our 2 biggest challenges in the playoffs.
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
11:35 am
Ken Strickland
Quit trying to diminish Woody’s contribution to this franchise by saying “any head coach could coach this team to a winning record and the playoffs”.
If you make that statement then;
any HC could have coached the Laker to the title last year.
Any HC coach could have won 6 rings with Mike, Scottie, & Rodman or Grant.
Any HC could have repeated with Magic Kareem & Worthy.
Any HC could have won 3 titles with Bird McHale & Parish.
Rick Carlise could have taken that 04 Piston team to a title if he had Rasheed Wallace the year before, instead Danny Manning, Cliff Robinson & Corliss Williamson.
Daniel
March 30th, 2010
11:36 am
Ill- we are on the same page about defensive intensity. I have wondered about wherer Joe’s head is at sometimes.
I wonder if the team as a whole know who they are and what they want to accomplish.
Is this sort of on/off stuff just end of the season (every team goes through) kind of stuff? That question will be answered in the playoffs, but these next two games will help. I mean if you can’t shake off the cobwebs for the Lakers and the Cavs, then… well.
As an optimist, I think we will turn it back on in the playoffs. We know this team can be stifling defensively, just look at the Orlando game. I have no specific reason to back up that assertion beyond hope and fandom.
Daniel
March 30th, 2010
11:40 am
Gee: Let me help you out here. According to Ken (and others): all bad elements of the a team and losses are directly attributed to the head coach; all positive aspcets of a team (ie player development, wins, all star appearances, etc.) are due soley to the individual talent of a player in spite of the coach.
Every thing he post, no matter how much it gets dressed up in other terms boils down to that opinion.
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
11:43 am
ILL-logical,
I agree.
I thinks there are hidden personal agenda’s, but you overcome hidden personal agenda’s by having a title as your team goal ie Shaq & Kobe.
However sometimes that won’t stop the personal agendas.
My thought is once Josh becomes the vocal leader of this team he can get them to place defense the way Woody likes even with JJ on the team.
Base Rater
March 30th, 2010
11:46 am
Grandad
March 29th, 2010
8:59 pm
Joe Mama/Sybil/Truth Serum:
In all seriousness & with all due respect;
[other than his percieved lack of shot blocking(in your eyes)]
what is it about Al that causes you to loathe him so vehemently.
granddad he hates Horfrod because he’s Hispanic. That simple. Lots of Asian guys I know hate Hispanics.
vava74
March 30th, 2010
11:53 am
Grandad,
Thanks for the props on the previous blog.
On Tom Izzo:
I only saw a Michigan State’s game around 3 weeks ago and I did not particularly liked what I saw from a player movement / set plays point of view, however, it wasn’t a good enough sample to know if Izzo has the tools to be a HC in the pros or not.
I also did not get a feeling on how he manages his players, however, I follow Charley Rosen’s column @ foxsports closely and he constantly puts college coaches in perspective:
basically he says that college coaches benefit from the fact that college players need their coaches – to “like” them and to play them and consequently have to obey and withstand abuse to accomplish that – whilst pro players earn more money that the coaches and sometimes “have to play” due to orders from above which means that they don’t particularly need the HC (it has been said by many, including one of the best coaches – Chuck Daly – that the NBA is a players’ league).
This means that the typical college coaching style: shouting and abusing players establishing authority does not translate well into the pros.
I believe that there are many examples of successful college coaches that failed miserably in the pros and only a few examples of the contrary.
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
12:15 pm
O’Brien
I’m with you be competative in the playoffs win the homes and make the away games tough and still one if you can.
Wabe
March 30th, 2010
12:47 pm
Nothing wrong with Bibby being Bibby. It’s important we get him going as we near the playoffs. But, that shouldn’t mean we phase the rookie out of the picture. Look at all the other rookie guards on winning teams that are actually getting PT.
It’s important for Chauncey to be Chauncey as they get to the playoffs, but that hasn’t stopped George Karl from getting meaningful minutes to Tye Lawson.
Simple question, if Lawson fell one more pick to the Hawks, would Woody have anymore confidence in him than he does JT0?
I say no, and that’s what bugs me. It doesn’t matter if the kid is ready or not, because that’s not what’s important to Woody. JT0 has shown flashes and has demonstrated the ability to do some good things for us on the floor, yet we fail to utilize him.
It’s never been about whether JT0 is ready for meaningful minutes, it’s always been about whether Woody’s ready to see him get him in there. And it’s obvious based on his minute totals this season that Woody’s not ready.
Understand that the bar has been pretty low all year, and JT0 hasn’t had the opportunity to jump over it because he’s being held back.
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
1:03 pm
Grandad,
Tom Izzo would send this team backwards. If you gone think about firing Woody bring in a coach with a proven track record.
Wabe
March 30th, 2010
1:23 pm
Tom Izzo is a great college coach. Great college coaches doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be successful in the pro-ranks.
And Tom Izzo’s the type of head coach that gets his recruits to commit for FOUR YEARS. Nobody from the Spartans ever jump into the NBA. They usually stay for the entire four years. So, I doubt Izzo would have his recruits commit to MICH.ST. for 4 years and then bail on them. He doesn’t seem like that kinda guy.
J.J.M.
March 30th, 2010
1:40 pm
rumors hawks will trade for devin harris
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
1:59 pm
Great reads today.
Mike is Back
March 30th, 2010
2:01 pm
Northcyde, Ditto on your March 30th, 2010 11:01 am on Woody…the Hawks are on pace to reach the 50 games plateau…and there are still guys like Ken that insist that Woody does not have a clue. Which is odd…since Ken is an old school Hawks fan. Surely, he remembers the not to distance past when the topic always revolved around…whom we would get in the lottery.
Woody may never be all that we want him to be…but clearly, he is nowhere near as bad as some make him out to be.
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
2:02 pm
J.J.M.
No trades can be made right now, and the offseason don’t begin until July. That’s a bad rumor.
Sautee
March 30th, 2010
2:14 pm
Michael Cunningham,
You will appreciate this after changing the blog title:
Every year at some point during football season, Mrs. Sautee will hear the name Les Miles and with tongue firmly in cheek will ask “shouldn’t that be Fewer Miles?”
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
2:30 pm
There are only 2 time a year I cheer against the Lakers, and tomorrow night is one of them. The other was earlier in the year against the Hawks.
O'Brien
March 30th, 2010
3:02 pm
I think someone like Chills would be a fit for Woody’s switching. And he could bring the ball up too (does anyone want to see Marvin dribbling up court?).
Anyways, there is an article about Josh Childress thats floating around today (and MB had a blog up about it). He has to let his Greek team know by July 15 if he is opting out of his contract.
Although I would like to see the Hawks sign him, (or sign and trade him), I think he stays in Greece. I think he likes it over there, and I think he will try to play the waiting game with Rick Sund one more year.
The bad thing is, I think Rick Sund will be content to play the waiting game again. Another issue, is by July 15, I doubt if JJ will be signed by then. So Rick will not know how much money he has available, or what all his options are.
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
3:20 pm
O’Brien
We need to let Chills go. He was good when he was here, but the team has gotten better without him. He overestimated his value and got called on the carpet. Stay oversees Chills.
Melvin
March 30th, 2010
3:55 pm
GeeMack,
If Chills stay over season then it will be the Hawks lost b/c they would not have gotten any value back from a former lottery pick.
Rod from College Park
March 30th, 2010
4:10 pm
Geemack,
But imagine where the team would be with him. We would be in a much better spot than we are now. Chills is a much better fit on both sides of the ball because he can penetrate and finish, and he can defend the 1 the 2 and the 3. Marvin was kept because THEY thought he was a shooter, which would have spaced the floor, but obviosly THEY were wrong. Chills only wanted a fair contract, but the bs games the Hawks play with who starts and who comes of the bench is what caused the big riff. Jamal Crawford will see this when he tries to get another deal. Chills new he was a better player than Marvin, which was probably proved in practice, and was definately proved on the court, but the Hawks tried to treat him like a bench player. Good for him. I would not come back to the Hawks if I were him unless you offered me a better deal than Marvin.
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
4:12 pm
Melvin
He’s a lottery pick in number only. He’s surely not lottery pick talent. The Hawks are the only team that use lottery picks to fill out the bench (Chills & Marvin). Marvin a very good 6th man not a starter.
KevinA
March 30th, 2010
4:15 pm
Bibby playing better? I don’t see it. Seems to me our trouble on defense starts with him. Teague or Evans are better options.
Al has better hot. I still don’t see why Woody dosen’t play ZaZa more and Al at the 4 more. Josh at the 3 some? Why not. Give it a rip. Anything to keep Bibby off the floor.
GeeMack
March 30th, 2010
4:27 pm
Rod from College Park
I’ve never been impressed with Chills at all. He was good at what he did, but picked at number 6, I expected alot more than what he gave us.
smh
March 30th, 2010
4:35 pm
The constant riding of Woodsons lap by some on here is getting disgusting. I’m sick of people bringing up how we win more games every year. Seriously how hard is it to improve your win total from 13 when you add all star talent and the guys you draft turn into all stars? 50 wins means absolutely nothing if the Hawks look terrible in the playoffs once again. They don’t give out awards and trophies for regular season wins. How exactly is this team so much better than last year? They have been relatively healthy all year and wont probably win more than a few more games than last year although they added a guy like Jamal and the only big injury was Joe Smith.
smh
March 30th, 2010
4:36 pm
Chills>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Marvin.
The Truth
March 30th, 2010
4:39 pm
Posted on the previous blog:
The Hawks checkered trade and draft past:
In 1993, The Hawks traded Dominique Wilkins, who remains the franchise all-time leading scorer, for Danny Manning, who quickly left via free agency to Phoenix after the season ended.
In 1999, the Hawks traded Steve Smith who had recently been awarded the J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award for his charitable endeavors to Portland for (pot smoking) Isaiah Rider and Jim Jackson. When Rider showed up late for a March game, the Hawks released him. The Hawks later traded Jackson away the following season.
In 2001, the Hawks drafted Spanish star Pau Gasol 3rd , but his rights were ceded to the Memphis Grizzlies in a trade involving Shareef Abdur-Rahim. In 2008 Gasol was traded to the Lakers. He was the second best Lakers in points (16.9), rebounds (9.3) and assists per game (4.0). He also led the team in blocks per game (1.90) and was tied with Lamar Odom with the most postseason double-doubles. Gasol then won his first NBA championship ring when the Lakers defeated the Orlando Magic in the 2009 NBA Finals.
In 2004 the Hawks traded Jason Terry (their 1st round pick), Alan Henderson, and a future 1st round pick to the Mavericks for Antoine Walker, and Tony Delk. In 2006, Terry helped his team advance to the NBA Finals for the first time in franchise history
In February 2004, the Hawks had the distinction of having NBA All-Star Rasheed Wallace play one game for the team. Wallace was traded from Portland to the Hawks along with Wesley Person for Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Theo Ratliff, and Dan Dickau.
In the 2006 Draft, the Hawks selected former Duke Star Shelden Williams with the fifth overall pick (enough said).
In 2010 Hawks fans are still stuck over the second pick in the 2005 NBA Draft, the Atlanta Hawks selected Marvin Williams of the University of North Carolina.
As you can see, this is certainly not the only anomaly of this franchise. Put in its proper prospective, the Marvin pick should rank small compared to some of other Hawk deals from the franchise past. You can certainly find more trades and draft-picks to whine about then Marvin.
JuniorBridgeman
March 30th, 2010
4:44 pm
I dont think we need Josh Childress. Childress has been away from the Hawks system for 2-3 years. We dont know how Childress is developing, whether he will fit into our plans. Guys who used to be great are no longer contributing (Bibby and Marvin) for example so if you throw Chills into the mix, he may disrupt the chemistry. I say, look at the free agent pool and select somebody who will certainly help you by evaluating the nba talent that guy brings to the table. From a logistics standpoint, this should not be that difficult. The basketball expert who evaluates talent for the Hawks should know when there is spectacular talent available. Whomever that is missed on that assignment last year because Heido Turkelu and Rafer Alsten were both done with the Magic and Atlanta didnt try and obtain either or both of them. Doing so what have given the Hawks the championship title this summer. Not doing so has made us fight with Orlando all year to stay close to the division race but it hasnt helped because we are too far out to win the division. Whats more, when we make the playoffs, we may get eliminated in the first round because our team has no confidence at all in its ability to dominate. If you had signed Turkelu and Alsten, former Orlando Magic stars and future hall of famers, those signings coupled with the play of those awesome players would have elevated the Hawks to a championship calibre standing. Whats more had those two former Magic players (Alsten and Turkelu) been signed by the Hawks during the offseason, the Hawks probably would have won at least 70 games or more this season. Oh well, hopefully someday there will be someone in management for the Hawks who understands nba talent who could help us acquire great skill to improve our ballclub.
northcyde
March 30th, 2010
4:45 pm
SMH @ Josh at the 3. How many times do we have to review this before people get it? Smoove at the 3 hurts this team . . and no . . it’s not a better option than keeping Bibby off the floor.
If Smoove could play the 3, Woody would definitely use him there more. Everytime Woody has “experimented” with Smoove at the 3, he quickly snaps back into reality.
MsDee
March 30th, 2010
4:53 pm
I would LOVE to have Chills back..that is one player who could truely score the ball with 0 plays for him. He moved very well w/o the ball. The way the Josh Smith is passes of late, could u image how many MORE assists Josh Smith could have with Chills back. For that matter, could u image Teague with more assists with Chills back!! Starting lineup should be (if Chills come back) Bibby, Joe, Chills, Josh, and Al..with backups of Teague 4 Bibby, Jamal 4 Joe, Marvin or Mo Evans 4 Chills, Joe Smith 4 Josh, and Zaza 4 Al..
northcyde
March 30th, 2010
4:55 pm
Haha @ the name Junior Bridgeman. That’s old school right there.
I agree with you about Chillz. Time to cut our losses with that dude and move on. Flip and Mo immeadiately made Chill an afterthought last year. So even if we lose him for nothing, it’s OK. Sometimes, it’s best just to cut dudes off, and start fresh.
MsDee
March 30th, 2010
5:06 pm
Chills was just being a business man..isnt that what Joe is doing?? Nothing wrong with that just as long as he comes back home!!
Daniel
March 30th, 2010
5:25 pm
Junior- I hope your post was meant to be sarcastic and funny, because it is hilarious. If you were serious, man you need to know a little more about the NBA. Alston and Hedu are future HOFers? 70+ wins? Had to be joking right? You do know that Hedu is making max money and we couldn’t have signed him. Plus, he is a big bust in Toronto. Just saying. I guess you also forgot that “our talent evaluator” did get Jamal Crawford (you know that guy) for Claxton and Law this off season. I think Toronto is jealous of that move.
Daniel
March 30th, 2010
5:26 pm
Junior- one more point. How come you are concerned about Childress disrupting chemistry, but then go on to ask for more free agents?
KevinA
March 30th, 2010
5:31 pm
northcyde
With a switching defense who cares where Smith plays. Him or Al or ZaZa will end up on a PG anyway. All three are better option than bibby who is just to short and slow. Fot that matter if the argument is the jump shot of Josh, we could play Al at the 3. He can hit a jump shot. The thrust of the idea is better defense. Bibby has none.
KevinA
March 30th, 2010
5:38 pm
Chills, JJ and next year Jamal. We have to sign them wether we play them or trade them. We need at least equal quality for the picks spent. To let them walk for nothing would be a big set back.
Daniel
March 30th, 2010
5:40 pm
KevinA- that is not how the switching defense works. That only occurs in pick and roll with the power forward and pg, which then gets switched back. Josh is a power forward, not a small forward. The defensive issues with this team are focus. We have heard that all season. The team gives up 97 points a game, Clevland is 94.8(best in the ECF). How many times have we seen 25-30 point first quarters by an opponent this year? There is your point differential, not Bibby. Bibby is not shot. He has been playing better of late. Clearly, he is not a defensive stalwart, never has been, but he brings a lot to the team in terms of leadership, calmness and big shots. It is TOO late in the season to try changing up the starting line-up.
KevinA
March 30th, 2010
5:59 pm
Daniel,
We can agree to disagree. We get torched by guards all the time. If you want jump shots – Al is the better choice. Bibby would be better against 2nd units where maybe it would be easier to hide him on defense. If he is hot – fan him and feed him. If not – a very short leash is needed.
Daniel
March 30th, 2010
6:01 pm
KevinA- he is getting only 20+ minutes a game now. Isn’t that what Woodson is doing? Who do you want playing the point then? Mario?
Daniel
March 30th, 2010
6:02 pm
BTW- Kevin, was Junior joking? I can’t decide.
Rod from College Park
March 30th, 2010
6:40 pm
GeeMack,
Believe it or not, I was never big on Chills either. Would have much rathered Deng or Iggy, but compared to Marvin, he’s a major upgrade. I am positive that he has added some things to his game, while Marvin has become worse. He also just fits this system better than Marvin. He played with more energy, was a very good rebounder, very good defender and you could not leave him open. He also knew how to involve himself in the game without plays being run for him. He also had above average handles for his size, which allows him to be that point forward that Woodson likes, similar to the role Josh has developed into this year. Very bad mistake by the Hawks, and it will rear it’s head in the playoffs when Marvin can’t defend his position, or pose any offensive threat agianst the likes of Pierce, Lebron, Jackson, Lewis…….
Rod from College Park
March 30th, 2010
6:45 pm
Daniel,
“KevinA- that is not how the switching defense works. That only occurs in pick and roll with the power forward and pg, which then gets switched back. Josh is a power forward, not a small forward.”
Maybe you should inform Ken Strickland of that also, since he wonders why teams never switch Joe Johnson or Marvin. They strictly play pick and roll with the center or power forward, and the point guard mostly because of Bibby and because a quick point on a center or power forward is that matchup they want.
O'Brien
March 30th, 2010
6:47 pm
Geemack,
“I’ve never been impressed with Chills at all. He was good at what he did, but picked at number 6, I expected alot more than what he gave us.”
Marvin was a #2 pick, and picked over CP3 and Deron Williams. But yet he got a 5 year contract for $37.5 mil. Did I mention that Chills had the same average as Marvin?
And Woody would have Chills in the game at the end. So I dont blame Chills for trying to get his money (even if he did overestimate his value).
Although I would love to have him as our backup SF, I am ok with the Hawks moving on. However, if thats the case, we need to trade him for a draft pick, or another player.
northcyde,
Why would you want to lose a #6 pick (who averaged 11pts, 5.6 rebs) for nothing at all? Trade him for a pick, even if its a low first round pick. Or trade him for a player who can help us off the bench.
And I dont know why people still keep talking about Josh at SF. Depending on the matchup, it might work for a few minutes during a certain game. But Josh does not have what it takes to be an effective SF.
KevinA
March 30th, 2010
6:58 pm
I would like to see us play big more often with ZaZa, AL and Josh in at the same time. Especially against teams that we need help with rebounding.
Against small quick guards Mario and Teague are good options. Against bigger guards Evans is a good option.
There are times Bibby is playing and he does just fine. The other teams are not trying to exploit him. But with any of these guys Woody just needs to watch close and be ready to yank them out. Give them another shot in the next half. There is no one size fit’s all.
This is the kind of coaching Ken has been looking for. More situational awareness. If your player is getting toasted – try another.
KevinA
March 30th, 2010
7:06 pm
Rod, Danial,
They strictly play pick and roll with the center or power forward, and the point guard mostly because of Bibby and because a quick point on a center or power forward is that matchup they want.
They want and consistantly get the Bibby matchup. And tourch him. Jamal also. Mostly Jamal scores enough to win that battle. Bibby does not. But like I said, if Bibby is hot – feed him and fan him.
Rod from College Park
March 30th, 2010
7:19 pm
O’Brien,
“And I dont know why people still keep talking about Josh at SF. Depending on the matchup, it might work for a few minutes during a certain game. But Josh does not have what it takes to be an effective SF.”
I agree to an extent, but he would give you more than what Marvin does now, so would it really be that bad. No way possible he could be worse than Marvin?
KevinA
March 30th, 2010
7:44 pm
Rod,
The way Al is hitting jumpers you could play him at the 3, Josh at the 4 and ZaZa at the 5. How could that be worse than Bibby’s D.
Sautee
March 30th, 2010
7:51 pm
O’Brien,
We mostly agree, but I have to call you on this:
“So I dont blame Chills for trying to get his money (even if he did overestimate his value). ”
How did Chills overestimate his value, when he never got an offer from the Hawks until AFTER the Olympiakos offer?
Sautee
March 30th, 2010
7:53 pm
KevinA,
Al would foul out trying to guard 3s all night.
Ken Strickland
March 30th, 2010
8:08 pm
ROD FROM CP-0nce again you’ve demonstrated your limited basketball IQ. Teams use pick and rolls against us with their center and PG because that’s the matchup they want to create, especially with Bibby in the gm. There’s no NBA rule limiting which 2 players or positions a team can use to run a pick and roll.
The reason teams avoid involving Marvin and JJ in their pick and rolls is because their size, strength, quick feet, good lateral movement and overall ability to guard multiple positions anywhere on the court doesn’t offer a decided advantage, compared with Bibby and any of our other Bigs. DOES THAT CLEAR THINGS UP FOR YOU?
GEEMACK-You have to be kidding me. I never said Woodson was responsible for everything that’s wrong with the Hawks, you did. I listed in detail the things I felt he contributed to and what he should do to correct them, period. As far as giving him credit for developing players, let’s take a look at that. Of all the lottery, high 1st and 2nd rd picks Woodson has had over the last 5yrs, only 3 players, Smoove, Marvin, Horford remain.
As far as his contributions to Smooves development is concerned, he’s worked extensively during the off season, especially with Hakeem. And it still took Woodson FIVE(5)yrs to get him to realize he’s better off consistently working inside rather than launching 3’s. If Woodson had allowed someone to put an actual OFF system in place that put players in predetermined locations, instead of clearing out to the 3pt line to accomodate his beloved ISO’s, Smoove launching 3’s wouldn’t have been an issue in the 1st place.
Marvin has regressed so badly under Woodson that he’s become an OFF liability instead of an assest, which is why he was drafted in the 1st place. Can you name one single thing Woodson has done this season to help Marvin become a more viable OFF contributor? Just like I thought, you can’t. And just calling him in his office and telling him to become more aggressive won’t cut it. He should have called Bibby and JJ into his office an instructed them to go to Marvin, like they did whenever we played in Seattle.
Horford came into the NBA more mature and fundamentally sound than any rookie Big in yrs. In fact, he’s demonstrated more maturity, leadership abilities and fundamental knowledge of the gm than Woodson. Hell, it was Horford who inform Woodson, along with some of his offending teammates, that our offensive problems are the result of poor ball movement. You certainly can’t say you’ve seen or heard Woodson say or do a damned thing to any of the offending parties about putting a stop to it.
It was Horford, not Woodson, that got this team so motivated and inspired during the playoffs series against the Celtics, they were able to take them to 7gms. Hell, Woodson has yet to demonstrate the ability to get JJ or Bibby, before Bibby lost the ability to do more than shoot 3’s, to stop interupting ball movement to go ISO.
Bottomline, Woodson doesn’t want the responsibility of developing players, making adjustments and changes, especially during gms, or creating and taking advantage of matchups. That’s why he refuses to consistently utilize his bench, plays his veterans heavy mins, while all but ignoring his younger players. His philosophy is to leave everything that takes place on the court in the hands of his veteran players, especially JJ, Crawford and Bibby, and let the chips fall where they may.
He want’s his other veteran players to bail Bibby and his NO D out, and overcome the problems created by his beloved switching DEF. Rather than make adjustments and play different DEF’s based on the situations, matchups and personnel, he just rides it out and blames the exhausted veteran players for a lack of effort and/or concentration after the gm. You WOODY LOVERS must have a serious MAN CRUSH on him, because only love and/or ignorance can make anyone so blind to the obvious.
O'Brien
March 30th, 2010
8:16 pm
Sautee,
I dont think Chills overestimated his value. I threw that in there because thats what GeeMack said. I think Chills would have signed for less than what Marvin did. And he would have been a better value.
Sautee
March 30th, 2010
8:35 pm
O’Brien,
Yes, he would have been a better value. If he would somehow take the MLE, I’d LOVE to have him back. People talk about how ugly his shot is, but the dude is .360% from 3 for his career. Better than Crawford (.351%), and close to JJ’s .373%.
And he doesn’t need a play called for him to score. His length REALLY bothered PGs when he switched off onto them. He probably led the Hawks in deflections.
KevinA
March 30th, 2010
9:16 pm
Not to mention he is one of the best in FG%. He dosen’t take many bad shots. This year he is over .600 – not many can say they ever did that.
KevinA
March 30th, 2010
9:23 pm
Sautee
March 30th, 2010
7:53 pm
KevinA,
Al would foul out trying to guard 3s all night.
Not many thought Josh or Al would be this good this fast either. I have been on the feed a big – get a win bandwagon since early last year. Many. disagreed with me. What has happened. The more they get the ball the better we do.
Once more the thrust of the idea was finding a replacement of combinations of players to keep bibby on the bench. His diminished offensive skills are spotty while his defense is basically gone.
O'Brien
March 30th, 2010
10:26 pm
Sautee,
“People talk about how ugly his shot is, but the dude is .360% from 3 for his career. Better than Crawford (.351%), and close to JJ’s .373%. ”
I dont put too much stock in his 3pt percentage, because he hardly took any 3s (unless he was wide open). But he did have a lot of deflections, a lot of key offensive rebounds and putbacks (Smitty called him the baseline bandit).
And he is a decent ball-handler, so he could help when bring up the ball when Bibby is not in the game.
I would take him at the MLE, because I think we could trade him (or Marvin) if we decide to keep only one.
BlueEdwards
March 31st, 2010
4:45 pm
The Truth: The Hawks are in the here and now. The Hawks are not trying to win games based on the past. The past is the past and it is over with. I dont know why some people continue to go backwards instead of forwards. The current group of Hawks regardless of how miserably they have failed in draft picks currently are occupying tied for the #3 seed in the conference with Boston, which means the Hawks are either the 3rd or 4th best team in the conference. When Woody took over the Hawks 6 or 7 years ago, the Hawks were 29th or 30th in the conference among 30 teams. There has been enormous progress with the Hawks since they were built from the ground up by Billy Knight. Of course, the Hawks could have been the second best team in the conference behind the Cavs had they not blown leads and closed out games in about 10 games this year that they had won, but took defeat because they couldnt or wouldnt close out those opponents. Add 10 wins to the Hawks 47 wins so far and the Hawks would be approaching 60 victories for the season. Thats close to the very top of the NBA ladder AND MOST FANS ARE STILL NOT SATISFIED.