Hawks squawks: Hawks 86, Magic 84

Dub C

March 25th, 2010
9:43 am

This win will definitely help the Hawks confidence against Orlando. Hawks have a hard time scoring against them, and last night was no different.

David Smith

March 25th, 2010
9:45 am

First!!

David Smith

March 25th, 2010
9:46 am

Bah!! Second!!

Freshmaker

March 25th, 2010
9:46 am

Awesome, awesome game last night. So glad they were able to pull it out. As Dub just mentioned, this is a nice confidence booster for the Hawks.

josh

March 25th, 2010
9:51 am

glad the hawks were able to close this one out, despite the last minute basket – i don’t know how i feel about these close ones cuz its usually the hawks allowing a 10 point lead in the 4th to get that close or something – but gotta give em credit. played through it!

Ree Roe

March 25th, 2010
9:51 am

Bob Rathbun made a comment about our poor record in games in which we score under 96 pts. Does anyone know what that record is?

Solid game despite another disappearing act by Marvin. He had some nice dunks, but he’s just so inconsistent…I wonder how Mo would do as our starting 3

I liked how we grinded out the win even tho we had some terrible scoreless stretches (half of the 1st Quarter, half of the 4th). What can we do to get points when nothing is falling?

-REEquired by Roe!!!

Rock Preston

March 25th, 2010
10:04 am

The reason why we bog down at the end of games is there is no offensive philosophy. Late in the 4th qtr, Jamal ran down the floor and hoisted up a J with about 15-18 seconds left on the shot clock. Too much helter skelter at the end of games instead of heady smart basketball. My point of view.

HarveyPritchard

March 25th, 2010
10:07 am

I knew the Hawks would win. The Hawks ALWAYS bounce back from a gut-wrenching loss. I thought they would win by 40 points but I’ll take a 1 point win anyday, especially against a team the Hawks always lose against, the magic. Josh’s slam at the buzzer has got to be the most emphatic and most electifying win the Hawks have ever had under Mike Woodsen’s regime. JOSH’S SLAM ESSENTIALLY MADE THE MAGIC DISAPPEAR!!!This win should give the Hawks confidence going foward. Go HAWKS! GO ALL THE WAY TO THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP!

Dub C

March 25th, 2010
10:08 am

I think you’re right, Rock. The ball movement stops at the end of games and the iso’s begin. As stated so many times here, our offensive scheme is elementary, at best. These nail biters are killing me!!!

Ree Roe

March 25th, 2010
10:14 am

@ Dub C, I agree. The close games have made us better as far as late game execution goes, but we’ve got Philly tomorrow & Indy on Sun. We need to win those games as convincingly as possible.

-REElated to Roe!!!

Hawk n the Ham

March 25th, 2010
10:18 am

I love the camera shot where it looks like Smoove just came out of NOWHERE and defied all laws of gravity to put the emphasis in EMPHATIC on the put back slam!

Smoove = Hawks MVP

CinderellaStevenson

March 25th, 2010
10:19 am

I was appauled at the play where Dwight Howard elbowed Marwin Williams hard as he was driving towards the basket late in the game. “Starvin” Marvin was hurt so badly that he quit on the play (literally walked off the court and got out of Howards way for Howard to slam it home). At that point, the fans at Phillips arena started booing because they thought the Hawks were about to lose. The Hawks then got off the mat like a tough heavyweight fighter and continued to take their game to the Magic. It was an exciting game and a surefire classic game. That game should make ESPN classic instantly. It was one for the ages and then for the capper Josh Smith puts his signature dunk on at the end to put the icing on the cake. What an impressive win! Rock on–Hawks! Phillips was rockin and rollin last night! Wow! The Hawks have come a long way from being a bottom feeder in the southeast division. The Hawks last night knocked off the top gun in the division. Theres no one else left to beat. THE VIEW IS LONELY AT THE TOP!

Clyde

March 25th, 2010
10:21 am

“Clyde is like 28 year old wall-paper… Always the same…Never changes…Just turns yellow over tyme.
PLease Don’t feel sorry for this guy….He wants to add to the Unemployment %.” -drmaryb

LMAO. You right I never change drmaryb. I’m just like Woody running the same ole plays for 6 years. Grabbing a clipboard during a timeout to draw up a play and the team runs the same ISO Joe. Running a switching defense so that your big men are on the perimeter and the basket is left wide open.

Real basketball fans know that what Woody is doing isn’t going to fly in the playoffs. It might get us past the first round but against Orlando or Cleveland we already lost. To win a battle you have to catch your opponent off guard.

FIRE WOODY

The Truth

March 25th, 2010
10:21 am

Did anyone else notice D Howard coming back from a time-out cleaning his feet of a Hawks carpet mat? It gave us insight into his mindset during that moment in the game. Apparently the preconceive plan was for them to be up on the Hawks by a wide margin with victory assured and the carpet was suppose to represent Orlando rubbing it in. I GUESS THAT PLAN BACKFIRE D HOWARD, YOU JERK!!

cp

March 25th, 2010
10:26 am

Whats frustrating about these 4th quarters is that for 3 quarters we share the ball, everyone gets involved and we look great out there. The 4th quarter comes and we abandon everything we did great for 3 quarters. We stop sharing the ball and go one on one. I think that’s why we go those stretches in the 4th where we don’t score.. We have to stop going away from what worked for 3 quarters. I think the team racked up something like 21 dimes through 3 quarters and only 1 in the fourth. The game before that they didn’t have an assist in the 4th at all. Stop going away from whats working. Bob and Nique pointed it out last night how we were sharing the ball then we started playing conservative. They have to fix this before the playoffs. Really cant afford those kind of scoring droughts like that..

What I do like is how Bibby has seemed to have found his shot again. I have been tough on him this season but he looks like he has found his rhythm. Good time to find it with the playoffs coming. Regarding Marvin well I don’t even know what to say. Like I said in the last blog, why not just try Mo at the starting spot since we have clinched a spot in the playoffs and there are not many games left. I don’t think it could hurt at all seeing how inconsistent Marvin has been.

Mike is Back

March 25th, 2010
10:30 am

@MC, I was going post on your previous blog…but the tone was so negative I took a pass. I’m starting to agree with Astro Joe, on some of the scope of your topic. Okay Josh needs to be more selective with his jump shot…the ISO JJ plays needs could use some tweaking…over the course of the season I have seen improvement on both fronts…these are guys that has given BLOOD, SWEAT, AND TEARS to this organization. You would never know that by some of the comments I read.

Yeah, they all most let another game get away, however we should also be able to acknowledge the passion and energy this team has been playing with of late. This had to be one of the biggest win of the season. This team is starting to peak at the right time…they look pose for big push going into the playoff…can we get something on that.

GREAT WIN…GO HAWKS!!!!

NUNNA YO BIZNEZZ

March 25th, 2010
10:32 am

i gotta admit that woody did a nice job on the matchup’s last night and so so with his subbing. My issue with him last night is, why does he still sit the bench down when they perform well in the 1st half??

but when the 1st unit is slow and not clicking he will wear them down with burn time for them to get back into a flow.

i don’t think he see’s that sometimes they may be actually..whats the word im looking for???…ummmmmmmmm….TIRED!!

im one who will give props on losses and get on u when we win…
and give u props win we win and get on u when we lose..

i can guarantee you that most of you on here will lose it the day we are out of the playoffs this year..and the fire woody bandwagon will be rolling down peachtree street/spring street/northside drive,and all around phillips arena..

even if we don’t make it all the way to the finals,and even win it i’ll be one to congratulate our team and coaches on the job that we did this season,but with the pattern that they follow now:
1.inconsistent play
2.inconsistent coaching
3.heavy minutes all season for jj and most starters
4.exposing the lack of knowledge of playing against a zone defense
5.exposing the truth of our M.O.(from the bulls color commentator)that we will blow big leads and will let u back into the game,and you have to be patient and wait for us to let you back in.

by my comments,you all can tell by now that im not very knowledgeable about the game of basketball,as far as the x’s and o’s..
but i do know the element of strategy and execution..

and i hardly doubt that our coach and some of his staff not,have even that knowledge..

i say that because i see no in game adjustments,and the same issues game after game after game after game..

can someone just name me more than one issue of our play that we had during the season,that costs us games,or nearly costs us games, that we actually addressed and the issue is no longer a concern??

im excited about this team,but,im not gonna let it get me too hyped and be let down once our season is over..

O'Brien

March 25th, 2010
10:46 am

from the previous blog,

Wabe,

I think Stan got outcoached last night. How do you not play Ryan Anderson, who has good games against us, considering Rashard was struggling as you mentioned? And Matt Barnes has a point. Not sure what SVG was thinking there either.

And what was Orlando thinking? Hawks were in the penalty with about 10 minutes left in the fourth. The Magic should be driving constantly, or get the ball to Howard every time down. But they took a lot of bad (jump) shots.

And then the zone was working against the Hawks, but Orlando eventually went back to man to man defense. Why?

That being said, the game changed in the first quarter when Howard went to the bench with 2 fouls as Ken pointed out.

Our bench has been criticized a lot this year, but they have played well the last few games. They deserve a lot of credit, because they contributed to the 30 point second quarter, which got us going. But it would be nice to see the bench in the second half, especially when they played so well in the firs half. Fortunately, our starters were able to hold on for the victory.

The thing that bothered me in the fourth, is Woody calls a time out, then we come out, and Crawford gets the ball to JJ, and then he goes ISO. Did we really need a time out for that? Especially since once again, we didn’t have a time out at the end of the game?

Hawks need to let somebody else initiate the offense, and then hopefully the ball will make its way back to JJ, with a better scoring opportunity.

And I’m not sure why we didn’t see Jason Collins. Wasn’t that one of the reasons we got him? ZaZa and Al could easily have fouled out, and then what would we have done?

That being said, a win is a win is a win, especially against a team who beat us by an average of 22 ppg the first 3 games. Maybe that will help us get over the mental hump against the Magic.

northcyde

March 25th, 2010
10:48 am

The Hawks are a mentally tough ballclub. I keep telling you guys that, but there are always skeptics. The win proves that we can beat Orlando, but isn’t indicative of how we’ll play in the playoffs. We’re definitely going to have to play better than what we did last night to beat them in a 7 game series. But it was nice to see the defense be the driving force behind a victory for once.

This game was comparable to the Dallas game in Dallas. A hard fought, grind it out game in which defense was the difference. I’d rather for the Hawks to play games like these, than those 108 – 106 games in which they’re not defending at all.

SWAT Native

March 25th, 2010
10:55 am

Cinderalla Stevenson,

I was at the game last night, and we weren’t booing after Marvin got elbowed in the grill because we thought the Hawks would lose, but because the ref let Howard get away with it. I agree it was a great game and I hope to catch it again on NBATV this weekend.

Wabe

March 25th, 2010
11:04 am

I completely agree about the bench. I think you’ve got to credit what they’re doing when they’re on the floor, and it’d be nice if Woody would reward good play with MORE PLAY, particularly in the 2nd half. I honestly think that a lot of these 4th quarter meltdowns that we see are a result of the limitted bench play. We tend to get tight as soon as the 4th quarter starts, and we don’t really rotate guys in and out. Woody might do what he did on that last Magic possession (rotate for defensive purposes for a possession), but I hardly ever see Woody rotate guys in and out in the 4th quarters, even when guys are struggling.

I wish we’d seen a little more of JT0 last night too, but I’m not gonna complain too much about that right now. We just beat the freakin’ Magic, nobody should be complaining bout much.

Wabe

March 25th, 2010
11:09 am

And to northclyde’s point about the Hawks being mentally tough, have yall taken note as to how well the Hawks bounce back from tough losses? The Hawks seem to play with extra intensity when they’re coming off a loss, which is great to see. I remember earlier in the season, we lost to the Bobcats, but came back home and beat Denver by 25 at home. There have been so many gut-wrenching losses that we’ve suffered, but none of which have killed this teams confidence.

I remember back when we played Cleveland on that back to back. Now, I know we lost both games, but the way we lost that first one was heart-breaking. You would’ve never thought the Hawks would go up to Cleveland on the next night and push them at all, but they did. And truthfully, I’m still a believer that if we didn’t get JIPPED WITH THE SHOTCLOCK THAT NIGHT, we would’ve walked out of that with a split.

It’s just pretty crazy how we manage to bounce back after tough losses. Definately a sign of a mentally tough team.

I just hope they get the 4th quarter woes figured out. We can’t walk into the playoffs ignoring this. It happened again last night, but luckily, Smoove bailed us out.

WolfmanJack

March 25th, 2010
11:32 am

THE HAWKS WERE LUCKY TO WIN LAST NIGHT. I am proud of the Hawks for the way they played for 3 quarters. The fourth quarter by the Hawks was an abomination. The Hawks will have to somehow fix these continual FOURTH QUARTER MELTDOWNS where the leads EVAPORATE and the Hawks play sloppy and let the other team back into the game. I couldnt believe what I was watching. The Hawks kept turning the ball over, over and over again and giving the ball back to the Magic. The Magic kept missing jump shots. I have never seen anything like that because the Magic are an excpetionally great jump-shooting team, but they were ice cold in their jump-shooting last night (3pt shooting and 2pt shooting), which is why the Hawks won the game.

Ree Roe

March 25th, 2010
11:48 am

From Hoopinion (Hawks blog)

“When the other team immediately attacks your defensive specialist, attacks him to a degree they didn’t even attack Mike Bibby, perhaps it’s time to reassess your perceptions. And this substituting Mario West for defensive possessions at the end of close games has to stop. Because Orlando scored on their last possession of the game, and because the Hawks had used their last timeout to get Mario West out of the game so they could play offense after Orlando’s previous possession, the Hawks had the ball for the final ten seconds and Mario West on the floor. Mo Evans, Jeff Teague, these are actual basketball players available for Mike Woodson to use in these situations. If he continues to refuse those options this is going to end badly some night.”

I agree with this assessment wholeheartedly. I still don’t understand Woody’s fascination with Mario West

-fREEquently Roe!!!

northcyde

March 25th, 2010
11:54 am

Wabe . . . they’ve been doing it all year, as you pointed out. It’s the main reason why they only have one losing streak over 2 games this year ( the 4 games we lost during the Christmas/New Year’s holiday ).

Yeah, they have their troubles with focus at times ( especially on the road ), but they make up for that with their ability to beat just about anybody at home.

Najeh Davenpoop

March 25th, 2010
11:58 am

““Starvin” Marvin was hurt so badly that he quit on the play (literally walked off the court and got out of Howards way for Howard to slam it home). At that point, the fans at Phillips arena started booing because they thought the Hawks were about to lose.”

Actually, we were booing because it was an egregious no-call. I was confident that the way they were playing defense, they would at least get it to overtime.

northcyde

March 25th, 2010
11:59 am

The guy at Hoopinion has never liked Mario though. He’s on point with most of his analysis, but when you’re talking about guarding a quick guard, Mario . . no matter how he doesn’t like it . . is the best defensive option to go with. Even when Mario did that great job on Durant back on Martin Luther King day, he still criticized Woody’s decision to play him, nit-picking on other mistakes he made.

Mario playing defensive spot minutes doesn’t bother me. Just don’t foul in those situations.

ILL-logical

March 25th, 2010
12:01 pm

A little noticed but highly significant point in last night’s game was when woodson pulled Joe after he drove the to the baseline,got trapped and then threw the ball away. Got to be consistent with the meteing out of punishment for bad behavior on the court.

The other key play was that because the Hawks where out of time outs,Woodson could not call one and give the Magic time to set their defense,as josh pointed out. Although the play was still iso Joe, Josh was able to crash the boards rather than stand 30 feet from the basket as called for in the now classic iso Joe set. Ironic:the Hawks may have won because woodson was not able to”coach”.

Najeh Davenpoop

March 25th, 2010
12:02 pm

Y’all are missing the point when you talk about the Hawks’ “4th quarter struggles”. The Hawks’ struggles are not caused by the 4th quarter — they are caused by the zone defense. It just so happens that teams have recently been employing the zone against the Hawks in the 4th quarter. Don’t get me wrong, this is a serious issue that has to be fixed soon, but calling them “4th quarter struggles” implies that the Hawks don’t have the mentality to execute in the clutch, which I don’t think is true. It is a matter of adjusting offensive tactics, not mentality.

Section 303

March 25th, 2010
12:07 pm

Josh Smith might say he does not hear the crowd groan when he is about to shoot a jumper, but I don’t believe him. No way he can’t hear that.

Really, I thought the officials reffed the Magic back into that game last night. There was a stretch where there were several fouls in a row called when the Magic had the ball. Take that sequence out and the Hawks win by 7-8 points.

You talk about key plays, Ken…how about Crawford stepping out of bounds (assuming it was the right call) right before he knocked down a 3-point shot late in the 4th. Would have put the the Hawks up 10, again, with around 5-minutes to go, I think? Instead, the call is made, the Magic score and instead of being up 10, the Hawks only up 5.

Najeh Davenpoop

March 25th, 2010
12:08 pm

Big shout out to the bench too, which was decisively better than Orlando’s last night.

Hawk n the Ham

March 25th, 2010
12:14 pm

Section 303 – I was at the office during the game, so I had to listen to the radio broadcast. After the refs gave the Hawks an offensive foul at one point Steve Holman said, “….well I guess the refs thought we had too much momentum, so they called us on a bogus foul.”

Moe luv

March 25th, 2010
12:17 pm

How come JJ can never find his game against the Elite teams but other elite players can always find their game against us?? With that being said, at least the hawks looked like they came to play lastnite. U could see it in their faces that they were determined to play up to those guys. My only gripe is when we are up in the 4th by playing team ball….great ball movement, but it seems as if in the last 7 or 8 minutes that great offense stops becaue Crawford comes down and jacks up shots..no one eles touches the ball!

Play Teague more to set up your great scorers…Granted, Bibby was on lastnite so I wasnt overly concerned about JT0 comin in but that pass to he threaded to MOE was SICK!

Every time we win a close game game people say this ought to be a confidence booster, but they come right back out the next game and start how they always start….slow…sluggish…..pick up defense….ahead by ten in the 4th…..stop playing defense in 4th…turn the ball over in the 4th Jamal Crawford doesnt pass the ball in the 4th….offense becomes stagnant….other team gets back in it in the 4th….other team ties the game or take the lead in the 4th……only a few seconds left…..JJ or Crowford dribbles the clock out while everybody else watches…Fans are pissed yet again that we are in this situation….Shot goes up……..U choose the out come

vava74

March 25th, 2010
12:22 pm

As anyone thought that we only won the game because Josh was able to pull that miracle slam at the end…

And that Josh only pulled that trick because he was fresh and sharp…

And that he was only fresh and sharp because he had a breather in the middle/end of the 4th quarter…

And that he had a breather in the 4th quarter solely because he picked up his 5th foul…

And not because Woody recognized that having your best player fresh and sharp to end the game is ESSENTIAL??

VenomSpitter

March 25th, 2010
12:28 pm

Article says HAWKS OFFENSE WON’T CUT IT IN PLAYOFFS: http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/hawks%27-offense-won%27t-cut-it-in-playoffs

HawksFan11

March 25th, 2010
12:29 pm

Someone posted a parody the other day comparing Mike Woodson’s coaching to that of Michael Vick and it got me thinking about these 4th quarter scoring droughts.

It seems that Coach Woodson is trying to play the 4th quater like a football game, trying to run out the clock while his team has the lead, vs continuing the attack, or as we old folk say “dancing with who brung ya”.

Rock called Jamal shooting a jumper with 15 seconds left on the 24 “helter skelter”, but it’s how the offense runs, how it functions. Our bigs run with the guards and most of the offensive rebounds, not to mention most of Jamal’s points, come from plays like that. I agree with most like Ree & Najeh that the abandonment of 3 quarters of successful ball movement in favor of attempted clock management is the key to the late game meltdowns.

Fast breaks and assists are not forbidden in the 4th quarter.

vava74

March 25th, 2010
12:31 pm

Even Josh understands that Woody’s tactic of calling a TO to set up an ISO play is dumb and that it is better just to let the game flow.

“It may have helped that we didn’t have a timeout. They were sort of discombobulated [defensively],” Smith said minutes after combobulating the Hawks and their thoughts. “But we know we can play with anybody as long as we give a full 48 minutes like we did tonight.”

Woody has called at least two stupid TO in the last few games after a miss by the opponent team rebounded by ATL with the Hawks ahead in the scoreboard.

Instead of taking advantage of the adversary’s increased nerves and jitters after a miss, Woody has been calling TO to set up ISO plays which go against fully set, rested and focused defenses.

vava74

March 25th, 2010
12:34 pm

Venom,

I had already posted that on the previous blog.

Charley Rosen is my favorite NBA analyst and he is right 95% of the times.

He also has showed great appreciation in the past for Woody’s work saying that he obtained better results than would be expected with the groups he had.

However, it is clear that his article is a testament of his opinion that Woody is not keeping up with the organic growth and has adopted a very limited game plan.

Hawk n the Ham

March 25th, 2010
1:07 pm

Dang, stupid emoticons………..

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
1:13 pm

CLYDE

Your’e right some things never change. You & Woody do run the same play over & over. You & he may be related. Maybe you two should vacation together & give us FANS some “Change we can BELIEVE in?”

LOL! I do agree with you that Mo should get that start. Were like what 6 – 0 when Mo starts?

Nice Post today except for the last two words! Please let that man feed his wife & kids.
We don’t need another BROTHER out of work…not in this economy.

tyger

March 25th, 2010
1:23 pm

Falcoons Easy Button 2.0

1.19 Golden Tate, WR, ND
3.81 John Jerry, OL, Ole Miss
3.98 Brandon Lang, DE/OLB, Troy
4. 115 Greg Hardy, DE, Ole Miss to I/R
5. 150 Anthony McCoy, TE, USC
5. 165 Danario Alexander, WR, Mizz to I/R
6. 163 Myron Lewis, CB, Vandy
6. 179 Ted Larsen, C, NC St.

GoldenRetriever

March 25th, 2010
1:24 pm

After last nights game, I think the Hawks should be careful and REALIZE exactly what their potential is this season and attempt to SEIZE THE MOMENT if you will when the playoffs rock on. Simply put, whether the Hawks like it not, whether they have been delegated or not, BASED ON THE HAWKS RELATIVELY CONSISTENT PLAY OF WINNING BALLGAMES THIS YEAR AND BASED ON THEIR RECORD, the Hawks standing in the nba community is of an elite status (the Hawks record-wise have made the top elite 8 teams) of the nba. Out of the top 8 teams in the league the Hawks are among them. EAST-Cleveland, Orlando, Atlata, and Boston. WEST-Lakers, Nuggets, Mavericks and Jazz. The Hawks have cracked the upper echelon of the NBA based on their record and their great play this year. I sincerely hope that they understand that they have the potential to do, and that is to WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP THIS SEASON. Like I heard standout sixth man of the year, Jamal Craford say, “I know when the playoffs come around I wont take it for granted.” I am hoping that the Hawks realize that you dont get many chances to do something special and the Hawks definitely have a special team this year, one capable of hoisting the Larry O’Brien trophy this year. The fans should stand behind the Hawks and encourage them and PUSH them to a title, because it would be a great, phenominal thing for the city of Atlanta, especially after the New Orleans Saints got one in pro football. The Hawks need to get a championship in basketball. Enough said.

tyger

March 25th, 2010
1:28 pm

Perhaps Jsmoove is more Dan Roundfield than Dominique?

Roundfield was an All-star defender/rebounder and scorer but didnt have the sweet outside game like Nique. Smoove’s play above the rim is reminiscent of Nique, but I believe his game is more akin to that of Roundfield’s who also didnt get as many All-star bids as he deserved.

O'Brien

March 25th, 2010
1:29 pm

The ISO has its place. But I didnt like the fact while the Magic was making a run in the fourth, Woody calls a time out. When we get back on the court, the ball is inbounded to Crawford, who hands off to JJ, who pounds the ball for 10-12 seconds, and then takes a tough shot. No creativity at all.

MC,

What’s your ISO play count/result from last night’s fourth quarter?

Fresh

March 25th, 2010
1:31 pm

GoldenRetriever,

I concur…Also, I hope Jamal Crawford bring some of his 50pt games magic with him to the playoffs.

Hawk n the Ham

March 25th, 2010
1:44 pm

Where on earth can I get Josh’s red alternate swingman jersey? They didn’t have any at Phillips & NBA store website only carries Joe’s.

SWAT Native

March 25th, 2010
1:53 pm

Hawk and the Ham,

You can find most of the starter’s red jerseys on EBay and at much better prices.

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
1:53 pm

drmaryb: You Rock!
You’re so very kind.
I think I have found a new friend.
Now play nice.

Section 303

March 25th, 2010
2:45 pm

tyger,

I think there is a “Who Gives a Sh#t Blog” for Falcon draft talk.

Legend

March 25th, 2010
2:47 pm

What type of satisfaction does these Woody hater get from there behavior? Obviously Woody’s story is remarkable and successful. Clearly the dude is a winner, so why so much venom? He has an Allstar and that’s it. Its amazing that he does so much with less.

So why the many haters?

Legend

March 25th, 2010
2:48 pm

ditto on the who gives a sh!t about the Vick less falcons, This aint a red neck club.

CherryBlossom

March 25th, 2010
2:50 pm

Woody deserves a raise under one condition. The Hawks go on to win the NBA championship. Then sign Woody to a 10-day contract like the scrubs who are picked up off the waiver wire.

Moving On!

March 25th, 2010
2:51 pm

“BALLGAMES THIS YEAR AND BASED ON THEIR RECORD, the Hawks standing in the nba community is of an elite status (the Hawks record-wise have made the top elite 8 teams) of the nba. Out of the top 8 teams in the league the Hawks are among them.”

NOW ALL THEY NEED IS A CENTER TO DEFEND THE RACK AND THEY WILL CRACK THE TOP 4 AND HAVE A LEGITIMATE CHANCE TO COMPETE FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP.

Legend

March 25th, 2010
2:52 pm

IF WOODSON CAN WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITH 1 ALLSTAR HE DESERVES THE GREATEST COACH OF ALL TIMES AWARD!

Mel

March 25th, 2010
3:05 pm

@ Legend even if the hawks win it all this year. There were 2 all-stars this year Horford and Joe

Jay Dubu

March 25th, 2010
3:18 pm

I agree with Woody that defense wins, but you have to have an offensive plan other than iso, when it comes to playoff basketball.

northcyde

March 25th, 2010
3:28 pm

I’m working on something . . . looking at the clutch shooting statistics off of 82games.com

I’ll see if I can finish this up in the next 10 minutes.

Some of you may not like what you see.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
3:39 pm

Who’s my GRAND-DADDY?

Thank You Baby. I think I’m a pretty chic Who loves the Hawks! I love all sports actually. But Iam definitely a home-town fan of all our teams. Not so much of all the other teams though!

I promise to play nice. But I do love bashing CLYDE – he has really thick skin & loves to issue PINK-SLIPS. LoL.

Cherry-Blossom

Mr. Woodson has a CHAMPIONSHIP RING (from this decade).
How many rings do you sport?

Mr. Woodson has too much class to even wear it on the sidelines (he’s trying to bring one to the ingrates of Atlanta)
How many teams have you coached in the NBA?

Mr. Woodson is a Hall of Fame basketball player of the “Hallowed Indiana Hoosiers”
How many Halls of Fame have you been inducted into?

Mr. Woodson was an Elite NBA player on many fine teams.
How many NBA teams have you had success playing on?

Mr. Woodson is respected among his coaching peers all around the NBA.
What do your peers think of you in your career?

Mr. Woodson came here to build a NBA team when Hubie, Larry Brown, etc. Laughed at thie offers.
Mr. Woodson came here to coach these barely-legal kids, when Sam Cassel refused to get on the plane after being trtaded here. Rasheed Wallace, however did get on the plane but he booked a round-trip ticket to Detroit the next day. Kenyon Martin came for a free steak dinner & hotel room, but used the Hawks Org. To broker a better deal in Denver.

So Cherry-Blossom who do you want come here and coach our team that Mr. Woodson developed w/o ever a complaint? Who should take his team & win the RING that Woody deserves?

Oh don’t forget Mr. Johnson did get on the plane & bought a house to come here & play with basically no real talent & carried us to where we are today.

Now you can come up from your spanking & beg Mr. Woodson for his grace, mercy & forgiveness for your STUPIDITY on this here BLOG!

cp

March 25th, 2010
3:48 pm

Mario West is so overrated as a defender that its not funny. People seem to look at one good play and ignore the many times he is beat off the dribble or the fouls he commits because he is so overly aggressive. Its a nice story and all but the cat ain’t that talented. He came in last night and Nelson breezed by him. I hope the fascination with him is over next year and we actually use that spot for some actual talent.

And why is it people on here are labeled as haters or not true fans because they voice their opinion? This is a blog and people have the right to their own opinion about what they see on the court. Just because someone has a opinion that differs from yours it doesn’t mean they are wrong or they are a hater or all these other silly stuff people come up with on here.

Mike is Back

March 25th, 2010
3:51 pm

@MC, agreed…my bad on the comments about the previous blog…I just thought the tone was becoming increasingly negative with the nit picking of curtain players…no pund intended.

I know we have endured some dispirited losses lately…but the guys have not quit…I think the adversity has galvanize this team and made them stronger. The win against the Magic was huge, this is a very promising young team…they are showing some toughness by bouncing back from these disheartening losses…that is a credit to coaches and the players…I think that is kind of getting over looked…do to the team struggles in the fourth quarters.

northcyde

March 25th, 2010
3:52 pm

OK . . . here we go.

Clutch shooting, according to 82games.com is defined as:

* 4th quarter or overtime
* Less than 5 minutes left
* Neither team ahead by more than 5 points

These are the eFG% of the star players in the league

Amare: .585
Billups: .559
Lebron: .553
Johnson: .511
Nash: .507

Roy: .500
Nowitzki: .486
Kobe: .484
Ginoboli: 467
Rose: .467

Pierce: .453
T. Evans: .436
Curry: .431
Durant: .431
R. Gay: 424

Carter: .415
Iguodala: .413
Bosh: .410
Melo: .389
Ellis: .395

Deron: .368
Duncan: .359
Wade: .349
Granger: .310

************

Clutch shooting amongst the top 6 Hawks: ( eFG% . . along with points per 48 . . and % of field goals assisted. )

Marvin: .556 ( 9.2 pts/per48 . . . 60% assisted )
Horford: .548 ( 18.5 pts/per48 . . . 59% assisted )
Johnson: .511 ( 40 pts/per48 . . . 21% assisted )
Smoove: .421 ( 16 pts/per48 . . . 69% assisted )
Bibby: .393 ( 10.8 pts/per48 . . . 75% assisted )
Crawford: .272 ( 18.3 pts/per48 . . . 27% assisted )

northcyde

March 25th, 2010
3:54 pm

Honestly, the only thing that people can say against JJ, when the game is on the line, is that he may not make as many FINAL SHOTS, as some of those other guys. But when the game is on the line, he’s been stepping up all year for the most part.

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
3:56 pm

drmaryb:
When you called Clyde “a retard”?
I’m gonna let you in on a little secret. I’m retard.
Defininition of *retard: (where I’m from)
*I don’t go to work anymore but I still get paid.

northcyde

March 25th, 2010
3:59 pm

Dang . . . I forgot to add Carlos Boozer to that list. When I do, he’s actually #1 in clutch shooting with a .600 eFG%

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
4:00 pm

northcyde: Impressive.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
4:01 pm

NorthCyde!

Damn man, those stats are amazing! WOW! Why do the INFIDELS on this BLOG hate & complain about Mr. Johnson? This man is one hell of an ALL-STAR! Joe is soooo UNSELFISH…He doesn’t take 50 shots per game like KOBE & NEM other TRUE Ball-Hogs!

Thks for your research…Great Stuff!

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
4:14 pm

NorthCyde!

Damn man, those stats are amazing! WOW! Why do the INFIDELS on this BLOG hate & complain about Mr. Johnson? This man is one hell of an ALL-STAR! Joe is soooo UNSELFISH…He doesn’t take 50 shots per game like KOBE & NEM other TRUE Ball-Hogs!

Thks for your research…Great Stuff!
.

smh

March 25th, 2010
4:30 pm

lmao@calling Kobe a ball hog. I wish we had a ball hog like that on our team. He has what 4 rings? I would take that ball hogging any day if it meant championships…. From that post I can see why you think Woodson is some great coach.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
4:33 pm

Grand-Dad

Yeah I shouldn’t have called CLYDE a RETARD. That was an insult to the mentally challenged & They deserve better. I should have called him an IDIOT instead. I hope those of us who have mental challenges will forgive me.

BTW, my HERO growing up was my amazing brother, unfortunately he suffered from schizofrenia, however he was a real man about it all & was tested as a Genius on an inteligence scale. He played the piano like MOZART & never had one lesson. He painted like Picasso & never had an art lesson.

He was a great basketball player too, I admired him & he knew it everyday. May Dereck rest in peace now, its been 11 years since he passed. (27 yrs. Old) & he never complained about his bad hand dealt. He was never a victim &
Inspired me to this day. I never complain either.

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
4:33 pm

1st of all:
I’ll admit to being a leading critic of Wdsn
[love the 10 day cotract] idea. However, he seems
to be doing a nice job of keeping the team both,
competitive yet loose.
On the other hand, little [BIG] things, drive me nuts.
Al was on fire!!! Mid-range jumper. Then…we didn’t
see it again. Period. Unless I missed something.
Mrs. Grandad did change the channel for a few min.
4th qtr. did Al take any mid-range jumpers during
our dry-spell?
Someone say – they went zone. Okay – short corner,
Al’s deadly from there. Now, why was Al not involved
in the offense.
Mo…10 pts. – 1st half…did he even shoot in the 2nd?
Next – Josh would not shoot those long 2 ptrs. unless
the head person who’s supposed to be in charge put him
there & told him to stand still. Then they waste the
shot clock & he’s your safety valve?
See, I told you, this kinda stuff drives me nuts.
Can that level of *strategeory win a title? *[GWB]

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
4:40 pm

drmaryb:
I wasn’t criticizing.
I was only trying to make you laugh.
there was a joke hidden in that post.
Camouflaged too well I fear.

Ken Strickland

March 25th, 2010
4:43 pm

If anyone gets another chance to see the replay of the final put back by Josh, look at the action taking place in front of the basket between RLewis and MWest. MWest made it possible for Josh to make that shot. Instead of keeping his man Josh off the boards, Lewis had his hands full with MWest. You can see him holding West down by the arm to prevent him from going up and doing what Smoove did. That’s why no one was near Josh when he swooped in. If Josh hadn’t dunked it back, MWest would have, if he hadn’t been held by RLewis.

I have to give credit where credit is due. HC Mike Woodson coached his butt off last night. He started out with his usual switching DEF crap, but unlike in the past, he made a switch and went more traditional, and we ate their butts up on DEF after that.

As a result of us fighting over screens instead of switching everything, both Smoove and Horford were able to remain closer to the basket and we far more effective at protecting the basket. Most of Smoove’s blocks came after the switch, and Horford did an excellent job of containing Howard, and limiting his scoring to mostly FT’s. The refs allowed Howard to get away with too much bullying and aggressive play.

In crunch time, Bibby has started having problems protecting the ball and making entry passes. He tends to start the OFF too far out, as a result of being overplayed, since teams know he’s not going to beat anyone off the dribble and is virtually no threat with the ball in his hands. He’s only dangerous when he spots up.

I’ve noticed teams have been playing more zone when Teague’s in the gm, which is likely due to their desire to keep him out of the lane.

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
4:45 pm

drmaryb:
May he rest in peace.
God gives us heroes for a reason.
My oldest son was my youngest son’s hero.
Job well done.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
4:50 pm

Smh

Yeah I wish we had KOBE too! I bet Charlotte Hornets wished they NEVER traded him to the LAKERS on draft-nite either! But he was barely 18 yrs old @ the time. Now, he got three of them Rings w/SHAQ @ Center.

SHAQ called him a ball-hog too – Remember? Pau Gasol complained this season too about KOBE hogging the rock too. You got to admitt he does need to pass the rock sometimes. MJ was a ball-hog too early on & never won championships until he passed that ball to Paxson & Nem’ = 3 + 3 consecutive titles.

Basketball is 5 on 5.
Golf & Tennis is 1 on 1.

I played Tennis in college on a 4 year scholarship & had dreams of playing Pro Tennis too as a child. I was a
pretty nice competitor myself. But, had a birth defect in my lower spine…So became a Chiropractor instead. LOL!

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
4:53 pm

Paul Hewitt stays at Ga. Tech afterall, Sucks being Mark Bradley! Hahaha!
Now, If we get Joe Johnson to stay in Atlanta? This town will throw a Block-Party!

northcyde

March 25th, 2010
4:56 pm

The flip side to those clutch shooting stats, is that Woody may simply be playing the percentages, when it comes to ISO-JOE at the end of tight games.

On most nights, it is JJ that has the mismatch against our opponent, because of his size and ability to get in the paint and shoot over people. So while the ball movement concept is great, Woody may simply be going with the higher percentage guy on offense.

That stats do show that Horford may need more touches down the stretch though, even if people have to create a shot for him. He’s arguably the best 15 – 18 foot jumpshooter on the team, so maybe creating shots for him from those areas, may be to our advantage.

Crawford’s shooting surprised me. But then I got to thinking. In most of those games in which Crawford has had huge 4th quarters, we were already up a decent amount, and his shooting simply put the game out of reach. But when games are tight, he’s definitely missed his fair share of shots.

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
4:58 pm

Ken Strickland: Great Post!
Players like Mario West win game for teams. They are so valuable
in so many ways. I did not see Mario on that play, thanks for bringing it to my attn.
Players like Mario have names like:
*glue players
*scrappers
*defensive specialists
*scrappers
*gamers
*my favorite – winnerrs

Some players fitting that description that I admire greatly:
*Battier
*Rodman
*lowry
*Ron Harper [post inj.]
*Artest
*Najera

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
5:01 pm

Sorry – *scrappers x 2, one should have been hustle guys.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
5:03 pm

Enter your comments here

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
5:12 pm

northcyde:
I wish Wdsn would [post up] Joe more often.
Notice I didn’t say ‘let’ him post up.
Especially in clutch situations.
We have run Joe off the hi/lo on occasion,
& coming off a flex cut to get him open in the post.
When he gets it, w/o a chance for the def. to react,
[switch or double] he is deadly in there.
He is bigger & physically stronger than most [2's]
yet we seldom take advantage.

O'Brien

March 25th, 2010
5:13 pm

northcyde,

I agree with JJ being our best clutch player, and I hope he resigns.

But the main thing that concerns me about the ISOs is we’ll be passing the ball, lots of movement, and playing great. But then the other team makes a run, and we tend to revert to ISOs and jump shots quickly.

If the ball movement is not getting us points, or if its the last shot, or if JJ is on fire, then give it to him and let him do his thing. But if he is having an off night, and we’re moving the ball and playing well, then darn it, keep sharing the ball.

I must admit though, that our offense has improved since the all star break, because our front court is more involved in the offense. Along those lines, I hope we go to Al more down the stretch, because that will force the defense to keep an eye on him and keep an eye on JJ.

JohhnyWalking

March 25th, 2010
5:17 pm

That game was HUGE for Josh. HE beat Howard!! The Mental gain from this will fuel Josh Bigtime. The Hawks are enjoying some Devine Favor. This team can REALLY can Win the Obrien trophy. They are right there. Mario West wouldnt be on the floor if the PLAYERs OWNERS and COACH didnt WANT him out there. Think about it. They won game…

Sam'l

March 25th, 2010
5:17 pm

Dr.MaryB wants to make a racial issue of criticizing Woodson. Waste of time. Woodson makes plenty of mistakes, and this very talented team has not had the proper direction to it needs. This is obvious to most people. After watching San Antonio and Orlando games, I’m willing to give the guy a break, because the Hawks seem to be headed to uncharted heights. Let’s see what happens. ..

I’m not sure Rasheed ditched Atlanta or vice versa. At the time he was here, he was close to being uncoachable.

Joe is remarkable and watching him and Crawford together is a lot of fun. Joe and Crawford and Al and Josh all deserve to win.

But for the Hawks to win it all, and they could….Coach Woodson is going to have to rise to the challenge. and be a world class coach. If the Hawks do lose but play hard and smart, tha’t’s okay too. Everyone can’t win.all the time. But if they lose because Woodson can’t figure out a zone,or make adjustments in other areas,, then you have to ask yourself if he deserves to lead this team. .

. . …. . .

JeJe

March 25th, 2010
5:23 pm

Magic players got salty? Who else got salty besides Matt Barnes?

and Joe / Jamal together is a disaster. Jamal gets zoned out of the offense

Rod from College Park

March 25th, 2010
5:23 pm

Northcyde,

Good post. My counter to that would be to know how many attempts per each player. The reason I say that is that Marvin has the highest percentage amongst the Hawks, but I can only remember him taking one shot in his whole career (I’m sure there were more) with the game on the line, and that was the game he hit that 3 against the Celtics. Of course everyone’s percentage could be affected by whether or not they are being guarded at all or by more than one player. I have no problem with Joe taking that last shot, but I really feel like in those situations he has become too predictable, and he never passes. Jamal gives the threat of the dribble drive, the shot, or the pass. I like him better in those situations, regardless of what the numbers say.

Ken Strickland,

I’m glad Woodson did not use your flawed philosophy of attacking Howard in the paint with Horford. We were successful by playing the pick and pop game with Horford in the first half. Horford had no success at all in the post against Howard. Lest we not forget that your punching bag(Bibby) also had a big game, and hit big shots, which he has been known to do througout his career. Since you are so concerned when I don’t mentioned when Marvin had a good game, what about last night, and the game before. Marvin really has been playing great for the Hawks in big games. (LOL)

JeJe

March 25th, 2010
5:29 pm

WOODSON CALLS FOR RETARDED SWITCHES ON P&RS.

HE BURNS CRUCIAL TIMEOUTS DOWN THE STRETCH SO HE CAN CALL JJ ISOS WHEN THEY’D BE MORE CONVENIENT IF WE JUST RAN THEM WHEN OTHER TEAM COULDN’T PREPARE (LIKE THAT LAST SHOT).

DAMNIT WOODSON. STOP HOLDING US BACK

DID ORLANDO INTENTIONALLY LOSE TO HELP US TOWARD THAT #3 SEED? THEY KNOW THEY’LL OWN US IN A SERIES

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
5:35 pm

Grand-Daddy

Thks for the kind words! I kinda knew you were pulling my leg, because I have read many of your posts over the past year. I rarely post up these past two year due to being real busy with patients & Insurance Giants.
Typically I scroll past everyone except the MVP-Bloggers & They know who they are:
Najeh
Blue-Ray
Doc
Manny
CLYDE
Astro Joe – Jetson
Rich-Brave
Grand-Dad
NorthCyde
Sekou (Gone Bye-Bye)
MC
OBRIEN

I lknow I left some one off the Grammy Appreciation List (But you know if you’re great!)

In defense of Mr. Woodson & that switching Defense?
Hey he learned his defensive schemes from Mr. Larry Brown. He almost has no choice, because his best defender is Joe Johnson on that perimeter. Mo & Marvin both play very strong D too. But. Joe is our only lock-down defender at the guard spot.

Josh patrols the paint & blocks mostly from behind on the weak-side of the play, therefore, he doesn’t called for too many fouls. Al is under-sized @ the 5 & is still an ALL-STAR. Josh is also an A-Star in my book too.

Having said that, our team is not built to defend NBA talent one-on-one. Too many holes on defense to fill. We must play defense as a UNIT or we lose most all our games. Too many deep teams in the EAST to play one-on-one defense.

I call it Help-Defense. MJ & Kobe are great perimeter defenders as is Joe Johnson.
LeBron & Wade play defense more like Josh does…but Josh plays in the paint & is not a guard nor SF.
Josh’s game is so NASTY & COMPLETE! That man is a 5 TOOL player & can hurt you so many ways.

Josh is a Quadruple – Double waiting to happen every time he laces it up & straps his Jock!

If we don’t switch? We don’t win! At least until we get a true proto-type at center…
But my friends, I hate to tell yall: Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul Jabar, Robert Parrish, SHAQ & Dwight H. Is not walking through that door!

My Bad…. D. Howard did walk through that door last nite, but he got his Azz-Whupped! LOL!

Go Hawks!

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
5:39 pm

R.f.C.P. :
Wdsn has stated on record that he calls virtually no plays for
Marv. Plus, he plays Marv out of pos. offensively. By that he,
unlike wise coaches, does not taylor his offens to yhe strengths
of his players. Lack of shots = lack of opportunity.
Also shooters need more than 2 0r 3 shots per game to maintain
rhythm. You cannot say we have a balanced offense when it comes to
shot distribution.

Clyde

March 25th, 2010
5:42 pm

Drmaryb called him grand-daddy lol

FIRE WOODY

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
5:45 pm

Sam L

Drmaryb is a black woman who is married to a white man!

Next … Blogger puh-lease!
Unless you’re on my M-V-B list? I scroll past You. (I may reply if U call my name)

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
5:45 pm

Sam L

Drmaryb is a black woman who is married to a white man!

Next … Blogger puh-lease!
Unless you’re on my M-V-B list? I scroll past You. (I may reply if U call my name)
.

Clyde

March 25th, 2010
5:48 pm

I don’t understand why Woody hasn’t installed more cuts to the basket when people post up. It seems to me that everyone is just camping out by the 3 point line waiting for a kick out. Any good coach would know that Hawks shoot way too many jump shots and get too few easy baskets when they are in their half-court offense.

FIRE WOODY

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
5:56 pm

drmaryb:
I’m glad you realize I’m really just retired.
However, Im from so far back in the hills,
that the other way is actually how it’s ‘pernounced’.
We lived so far back…we didn’t get “The Grand Ole Opry”,
’til Sunday morning.
Thank the Good Lord, my mother was progressive before
progressive was even invented. Now my daddy on the other hand.
I was raised by my ma’ma, single parent home.
I have been blessed beyond measure.

MUTUMBO

March 25th, 2010
6:10 pm

MAN UP and take the Division

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
6:10 pm

Clyde – co-sign on the cuts.

drmaryb-I’m a white [transparent really] guy married to a whiter woman.
However, I want to date black women, but Mrs Grandad won’t let me.

This whole thang is out of control & Mrs Grandad is gonna whup the tar
outa’ me if she ever finds out what I just posted.
Was kinda funny though.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
6:45 pm

Grand-daddy

I wished I lived in the Hills. That’s some good living right there. I did one of my intern-ships in
Blue Ridge, GA. (mountains). Two of the best years of my life, awesome scenery, fresh – clean tap water & no traffic.

Coach can and will get better at his job, if he is given a fair chance to develop his talent & if he was lucky enough to have a player like LeBron, Kobe, Dwight, etc. But you have to be lucky to draw that #1 Lottery pick from that basket thing.

I do admitt, I would like to see more of our players moving without the ball. I love it when we swing the ball to all five spots before taking any/poor shot selections. I am not real sure what our team’s identity is though. I feel that Mr. Woodson, certainly has room for improvements in his game as well as the players. Are we a great defensive team that plays unselfish on offense and score points, or are we a running team wtihout a purpose (ala: The Warriors)? I just feel that we are missing some key pieces on the starting five and four to five pieces on the bench.

When Mr. Woodson came here? He came here to re-build and it takes about five years to do that. If we are patient, we are almost there! Don’t blow this team up just yet. It’s like giving up on your teen-ager when they turn 16 and start challenging the parents, you don’t kick them out of the house, you help them and guide them to grow up and be better persons.

I also realize this is Woody’s first head coaching job and the learning curve is very steep – I feel. I borrowed the Michael Jordan Life Story on DVD from my financial planner yesterday, and I can not wait to gather my popcorn and cherry-coke to sit & watch that this weekend. I was told that MJ failed terribly before he became an ICON. He missed some 800,000 shots and missed countless game winning shots before he enjoyed success. Wasn’t he cut from his high school basketball team and was told by his coach that he wasn’t good enough to make the team?

My point, is that someone gave Mr. Woodson a chance to be a head coach, and he has improved his ball club each year on a progressive scale & has not regressed in the category that matters the most. (Wins -vs- Losses).

How many of us on here are the greatest at what we do for a living, and has never had slumps, bad days or made poor decisions. That’s how you get better, when you learn from past mistakes. How many people have gotten their girlfriend pregnant and wished they hadn’t, or made the common mistake of marrying the wrong person and wished they hadn’t . Some mistakes you pay for a life-time.

But, this is just basketball that we discuss so passionately on this wonderful thing we call a blog.
We can log this thing off and go back to sleep or back to the reality that our economy sucks and millions of people are losing their, homes, jobs, savings and everything they spend a lifetime working for. I am glad that we can come here and take a break from our bleak realities.

I never want to see someone lose their job, whether its coaching a team or paving the highways.
I really love the Hawks and have been a die-hard fan since I moved here in 1986. I have seen some really bad GM’s, Coaches and Teams play here in this city. i just don’t feel that Mr. Woodson is the worst coach I have seen here, and he has helped take us to the play-offs for three years straight after a 13 year drought!

That’s all I am saying.

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
6:46 pm

Why are knuckleheads continuously spouting off about the Hawks needing a “legitimate center” to win a championship? There are maybe 5-10 guys in the league that play the postition as well or better than Al Horford so why is the play at center considered “sub-standard”. We have an All Star center so how can you get much better? You can’t unless the Magic are considering placing Dwight Howard on waivers. What the team really needs is a coach that knows how to bring all this talent together and use his players’ strengths.

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
6:51 pm

drmaryb: well stated.
You will love “The Book of Basketball” by ‘Bill Simmons’
‘vava74′ talked about it on this blog. Got it for Christmas.
Great read if you get a chance.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
7:04 pm

BirdDawg

Please name the last five teams to win a championship?
Who was the starting center on those teams?

If not a great center? Then how many All-Stars were there?

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
7:08 pm

The real bloggers on here know me & have known me for some for years.

I have so much fun on here, I just don’t have time to read everyone’s post, because I own two offices.
So, I scroll past people I have never heard of, nothing personal.

However, I like to pull hair and I like it when you guys pull my hair too! I don’t care if you call me an idiot or stupid, I have plenty of self-esteem and confidence and I know who I am.

I do like a good, heated, back & forth debate with a little name-calling though! Does that make me a little freaky? Probably, so go ahead and dunk on me! i’ll be your poster-child! lol!

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
7:09 pm

Oh yeah! I fight dirty!

WolfmanJack

March 25th, 2010
7:22 pm

The Hawks already have an all-star center. Al Horford is “the force” in the middle. When Al Horfords game fully develops next season, Al will be as good or better than Wilt Chamberlain. “Big” Al, Rock On Brother!

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
7:22 pm

W/O addressing anyone in particular:
Sometimes teams have an exceptional “BIG” even if he
is not listed as a [5]. Examples:
*Duncan (really a Center I don’t care what anyone says)
*Garnett
*Gasol
These are only recent examples.
I love Big Al & Josh. I still wish they had a ‘BIG’ Tag-teammate!
More & more I’m thinking an outside [3 pt. shooting] Big.
Not another medium sized big, but a really BIG, Big.
Much like Big ‘Z’ would have been had that ship not sailed.
Could there be a small schism in Dallas in Dallas leaving open the
possibility of a Haywood signing this summer.
I know, I know, he’s not a shooter but he is a defender who seems
to have reinvented himself with conditiong.
Now I’m off to watch college ball. G’day.

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
7:24 pm

Drmaryb,

Let’s see,
2009 Los Angeles Lakers, starting at center Pau Gasol, great player, but not a “legitimate center”.
2008 Boston Celtics, starting center Kendrick Perkins, serviceable at best and hardly an All Star.
2007 San Antonio Spurs, starting center Francisco Elson, ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME?!
2006 Miami Heat, starting cener, Shaquille O’Neal, well past his prime, but still good so I’ll give you that one.
2005 San Antonio Spurs, starting center Tim Duncan, another great.
I would also like to mention the many Bulls and Pistons teams that won several championships with starting centers like Bill Laimbeer and Bill Cartwright. Servicable at best. None other than Tim Duncan were appreciably better than Al Horford at the time they won their championships and most of them didn’t play as well as Horford is now. Also, to give you credit, several of these teams had up to 3 All Stars. but by your own admission the Hawks have at least 3 All Star Caliber players in Horford, Johnson, and Smith(didn’t even mention Jamal, but I could have, lol). I’ll say it again, this team has the talent to win the Championship right now, just not the coaching.

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
7:30 pm

WolfmanJack:

I couldn’t let that one go.
Seriously – ‘Wilt’!
A bit of hyperbole, perhaps !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
19 exclamation pts. a bit over the top ?

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
7:30 pm

I see most of us are doing what we normally do: pick our favorite player to gush about or bash. I love blogging…

Like I said on the Fan blog, Woody is doing something right, for this team to go where it’s going. Look, you can’t expect a team to be NBA Finals or even Conference Finals overnight. Can Woody do better than he is now? That’s the question, but you can’t answer that until he’s been given a shot at it. This season, our team should still be healthy for the playoffs. Let us see how the team does in relation to last season.

When Josh Smith says he doesn’t hear the fans groaning every time he winds up for a jumper, I believe him. And so should everybody else. In fact, we should be happy to hear this. Why? Because if players are listening to the crowd everytime they do something, then they aren’t concentrating on the game. You can’t listen to the crowd. Everybody is telling you to do something different. Don’t believe me? Just look at this blog, and see if everybody is agreeing….

Players have to listen to each other, and to the coaching staff. They don’t have time to listen to us, or they won’t get anything done.

I could give a crap less about who has what shooting percentage in clutch or late game situations. We know who our best shooters are, we know who our best playmakers are, and we know who is on the floor for both teams in these situations. Decide accordingly, and have a couple of backup plans. Why would anybody be unhappy about the fact that Joe Johnson is one of the better clutch shooters in the league? That’s good news, but it doesn’t mean Joe will hit every late game shot, now does it? In fact, those stats proved that Joe will miss about half of the time. So what? That doesn’t mean he isn’t clutch! What matters is that though he is our #1 option to get a shot off, he’s not our ONLY option. What matters is that there are others to turn to, or others who might be able to make plays when needed. Last night, it was Smith. That ain’t a knock against Joe. Far from it.

Another word on Woody. I want to see what he can do with this team in the playoffs. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE HIM FAIL . His failure is the team’s failure, and I’m a Hawks fan. ‘Nuff said.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
7:31 pm

Sam’L

I feel Horford at the 5 has gotten better each year. I think that next year he will be almost as unstoppable as Dwight. I sure hope so, I know he plays out of his natural position – the #4, but he has really come into his own in the NBA of all places as a force down low.

I don’t know if he will ever be a great shot blocker, but I think shot blocking is purely instinctive…I don’t know if you can really teach that, or re-bounding for that matter. I think ” The – Worm” & Barkley were undersized at the #4, but were fantastic rebounders!

I think Al is a great rebounder and will get better at that too. I love his shooting this year, he reminds me of Bill Lambier-sp, with that sweet 12-15 foot shot. He makes it pretty consistently.

I’am leaning towards Gran-Dad, I am thinking we need to still look at future PG & SG/SF positions, to round out our team. The 1,2,3’s are a lot easier to find than a 7-footer.

Rod from College Park

March 25th, 2010
7:31 pm

Grandad,

“R.f.C.P. :
Wdsn has stated on record that he calls virtually no plays for
Marv. Plus, he plays Marv out of pos. offensively. By that he,
unlike wise coaches, does not taylor his offens to yhe strengths
of his players. Lack of shots = lack of opportunity.
Also shooters need more than 2 0r 3 shots per game to maintain
rhythm. You cannot say we have a balanced offense when it comes to
shot distribution.”

Why is is that everyone else is thriving in Woodson’s system except Marvin. Josh having his best year, Jamal, Horford, Joe. Shot distribution is based off of the fact that Marvin has not proven that he can score. Two quotes come to mind.

“Excuses are tools of the incompetent, and those who specialize in them seldom go far.”

Excuses are tools of the incompetent used to build monuments to nothing. For those who specialize in them shall never be good at anything else.”

Rod from College Park

March 25th, 2010
7:34 pm

Grandad,

Woodson also said the same thing about Horford and Josh until this year. They stepped up, improved their games, and produced, and now they do occasionally get plays run for them. See how that works. Prove yourself and then plays might get called for you. Neat idea huh.

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
7:36 pm

Drmaryb ,

Meet your kaleidoscope opposite. I’m the black guy, married to a white woman. Some people want to give credit to my command of the english language to that, but I’ll have to blame the beautiful college professor known as my mother for that one. My pops helped out as well, by ensuring that I got the level of education that he didn’t when he was in grade school(he’s from way out in the kuntry). Of course, the military can make up for a lot of things, which worked well for him.

in other news….

Mr. Horford speaks out, and I like it. This young man is a leader developing in front of our eyes.

Center Al Horford said the problem often has been ball movement.

“That really falls on the guys that are running our team,” he said. “The guards have the ball in their hands. They control the game, and that’s something they have to kind of realize.”

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
7:39 pm

BirdDawg

Thks for that assessment. mmmmh! O.K. so maybe we are ok at center based on what you said.
But, we are so young, even JJ is only 27 years old. Horford & Josh are great players on our team and we are very long and athletic. We give teams fits when they play us. I see and hear teams gearing up to play up to the hawks level now.

I heard Milwaukee player, say it on ESPN a couple weeks back, “We got this win tonight, but now we have to get ready to play a really good Hawks team on the road!” Teams really do respect what we are trying to do here.

I still feel that we need 2-3 more pieces to really go all the way, the end of that bench really makes me nervous. I don’t even know who’s down there. Was that Alan “Hindu” Henderson sporting a nice suit in that #12 seat? LOL! oh no! nightmares and flash-backs!

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
7:42 pm

How does someone’s vernacular and the fact they are married to someone of the another skin color help the Hawks? While it is great that you guys received an outstanding education and found someone to be happy with , it’s not going to improve Josh Smith’s jumpshot. LOL

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
7:45 pm

NOT ALAN HENDERSON!!! COME ON DOC!!! At least give us Tree Rollins or Moses Malone back. LOL

KevinA

March 25th, 2010
7:48 pm

What is wild about JJ is how he waits for the defense to come to him much of the time or even dribble towards them. I think he prefers a player on his hip or someone to shoot over. Then there is the pause – waiting for something to trigger his brain to dribble or shoot. Like a Barkley golf swing but with much better results.

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
7:48 pm

I actually think that Horford is more offensively sound than Dwight is. Dwight is bigger and stronger (but not by a wide margin), but he can’t shoot a jumper by any stretch of the imagination. He doesn’t even have a reliable running hook or baby hook, either. Where is his unstoppable move? Answer: he doesn’t have one. Horford relies on position alone, which is exactly why the Magic only go to him when jumpers aren’t falling. Then, they can only hope that he will draw fouls, then make the foul shots. Howard shoots 60% from the stripe…

Don’t believe me? Watch last night’s game again and see how many actual shots he made. Those who wish to decry Horford can tell me just how it is that the great Dwight wasn’t able to do better than 4 for 11 shooting against both him and fellow “scrub center” Zaza Pachulia. And though 24 rebounds is impressive, we also just about gave him half of those by shooting and missing several jumpers. Hard to get rebounds off of your own missed jumpers, which means the defense gets them.

As far as defense goes, any simpleton should know that shot-blocking is only a part of it. Horford blocks little more than one shot per game, but he is a great positional defender. When allowed to play up against his man (instead of switching onto some guard), he rarely allows his man to get the position he wants. Horford also uses his lower body strength to push or keep offensive players off balance. It’s the very same thing that made Dennis Rodman so great a defender. Positional defense. A lost concept these days…

Speaking of Horford and his detractors, where is Horford’s most well known hater?

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
7:49 pm

How does someone’s vernacular and the fact they are married to someone of the another skin color help the Hawks? While it is great that you guys received an outstanding education and found someone to be happy with , it’s not going to improve Josh Smith’s jumpshot. LOL

I don’t recall saying that it would. After last night’s game, all you’re worried about is Smith’s jumper? Go figure…

KevinA

March 25th, 2010
7:50 pm

Big Ray,

Center Al Horford said the problem often has been ball movement.

“That really falls on the guys that are running our team,” he said. “The guards have the ball in their hands. They control the game, and that’s something they have to kind of realize.”

Al for player coach?

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
7:55 pm

Blue-Ray

You have outstanding vernacular, grammar, and overall communication skills! I knew your parents were the reason behind it, specifically your mother.

Same here, I grew up as an international bible student (sometimes you wouldn’t know it with the potty mouth sometimes), but my mother was the epitome of class, style and grace. She demanded that we learn a minimum of three languages, English being the first. My big brother and I were constantly corrected on grammar and pronunciation of our words, to the point of nasuea sometimes.

But with blogging and texting, there are word fractions and sub-languages now. I really love your writings though. I was very happy to see your blogs on here. I find myself searching for them all the time so I can post you up, but I am usually on the Blackberry when I am blogging and the screen and keys are to small to see very well.

I love you Blue-Ray!

Ken Strickland (sorry I left your name off the MVB List earlier) You’re Awesome!
Manny T (Where the heck are you?)
Sam’L (I do enjoy your posts too, I just didn’t know you from 2007 when I discovered the blog-world)

Looking back, I appreciated it later in life, but definitely not – then. lol!

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
7:55 pm

Rod ,

I think Horford and Smith both have the natural aggression needed to step up on their own. Whatever it is, Marvin doesn’t have it. It’s not just that, though. Now the ball has too many places to go. It’s too late for him to step up. Can he score in the post or hit the 18-footer better than Horford? Can he drive to the hole or fill the wing better than Josh Smith? Can he create his own shot better than Joe or Jamal? Can he be a better spot-up shooter than Mike Bibby?

The answer to all of this is “no.” I think it’s a bad circumstantial situtaion all the way around. I think Marvin is one of those guys who blooms late (if at all), but he was picked by a team that has a bunch of faster movers. All the guys who get more plays and shot attempts than Marvin are all more aggressive in their respective scoring methods.

Marvin can only be a role player on this team, unless one of the guys who gets the ball more, leaves the team (via free agency or trade). Even then, I’m not sure how much more he can do than 14ppg. He’s never going to justify his draft status. I never thought he would in the first place, but that’s another story, and it’s all in the past.

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
7:56 pm

Big Ray,

Very accurate assessment of Al Horford’s effectiveness which is why I can’t understand why people are saying we need a “legitimate center” to win a championship. Makes absolutely no sense. Also, Josh Smith’s jumper isn’t all that concerns me, but if we do get that center that everyone is clamoring for, it means Josh moves to small forward which means he would called upon to shoot those jumpers even more just by the nature of the position. That is a legitimate concern.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
7:58 pm

BirdDawg

Sorry for the offense.
But you came in the tail end of a A-B-C conversation between myself and Sam’L. & now Blue-Ray.
I recommend that you use the scroll-on feature that is located on your key-board. You missed the whole point entirely!

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
7:59 pm

drmaryb ,

Love you too! Now where have you been keeping your main man Richbrave ? Haven’t seen him around these parts in a minute, hope he’s ok. Yeah, I never liked all the grammar pounding when I was a kid, but it certainly helped. You know how it is: you never like anything that’s good for you when you’re a kid, LOL!

Liked the Blackberry, but got tired of their browser. I rock the HTC Touch Pro 2 these days.

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
8:02 pm

Big Ray,

Other than being able to create his own shot like Joe and Jamal, I believe the answer to all your questions about Marvin could possibly be yes. Marvin has tremendous athleticism and a lot of raw talent. What he lacks is aggressiveness. It was his problem at North Carolina as well. I think Marvin has the capability to be one of the best all around players in the league, but his mentality and approach to the game will need some serious work. His situation reminds me a lot of what the team went through with Boris Diaw.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
8:03 pm

KevinA

Not the Barkley Golf-Swing? OMG that shi%t is really funny.

O.K. JJ does do that, I was wondering the same thing myself. I think Joe is an extremely deliberate man who really thinks a lot about what he is going to do next.

But, I have noticed that too. He does not talk very much ::: Sort of like a Tim Duncan personality to me. I believe he is a thinking man though. Great observation on your behalf.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
8:04 pm

Blue-Ray

great come-back to B-Dawg. LMAO!

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
8:07 pm

Drmaryb,

I actually caught the entire conversation, I was just injecting a bit of sarcastic humor into the blog. I apologize if it was lost on you guys.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
8:09 pm

BirdDawg

Don’t worry too much about Josh’s Jumper, it doesn’t look to bad going up. He’s just a little off with the timing on that thing. He can develop a good shot over the summer hopefully or as he grows his game.

All it takes is practice and putting up maybe 3000 shots per day. MJ did it, he didnt always have that jumper when he first got to the NBA. Overall, I feel Josh’s jumper will improve in the future.

Marvin on the other hand has a sweet looking, picture perfect jumper…however, it does’nt fall in often enough IMO. I think with him, its a lack of confidence in his game and himself. Marvin is a really quiet, sweet and nice kid too. He should have stayed in school for another year or two – IMO.

He will be o.k. too, there is so much talent on this team that Marvin gets lost out there.

Blast

March 25th, 2010
8:10 pm

Hawks struggles in the 4th whether against the zone or not is because the offence grinds to a halt. Hawks go away from what was working, player and ball movement. Joe wants to be the man, the hero, so the ball sticks with him like glue.

Horford was right. The guards (Joe) control the ball, hence the game. While I appreciate Joe and loved that he kept us in the Minny game dueling with Salmon, Joe was what? 2-9 in that fourth? He made 7 straight shots and and missed his last two. I would have rather he missed the first two and made the last 7.

Hawks/Josh getting some love on TNT.

Beautiful win last night, thanks to Josh, our hero.

Go Hawks!

KevinA

March 25th, 2010
8:10 pm

Center Al Horford said the problem often has been ball movement.

“That really falls on the guys that are running our team,” he said. “The guards have the ball in their hands. They control the game, and that’s something they have to kind of realize.”

Is it possible that Al has something there? A great PG would get the ball to Marvin where can be most effective? Or anyone else?

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
8:15 pm

Blue-Ray

Yeah my first blog-boyfriend who gave me my first kiss and showed me the ropes. RichBrave taught me how to interact and not pick so many fights! (i.e. blog etiquette) lol!

I think he is depressed because they broke up the Washington (ahem…ahem…) Bullets! lol!
Seriously, I hope he is well with his health and family and all! I sure do miss my ex! He will always hold a special place in my blogging-heart. I am sure there will be a sighting during the play-offs!

“Liked the Blackberry, but got tired of their browser. I rock the HTC Touch Pro 2 these days.”

-I am slow with technology, so just upgraded to the Blackberry about 8 weeks ago & I still don’t know how it works! LOL! it’ll be years before I upgrade to what you have.

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
8:15 pm

Drmaryb,

I think Marvin will be fine as well. He has immense talent, but there’s talent all over this team so he does get lost at times. A lot of the fans seem to have given up on Marvin. Call me cray,but I think that if JJ were to leave, Marvin could give the team a lot of what Joe does in production. Like you said, he just needs to get his confidence up and be more aggressive.

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
8:16 pm

BirdDawg ,

I don’t know if that will actually happen. Unless management and coaching thinks they have a seriously legit need for a bigger starting center, they won’t likely move Horford to the 4, and therefore Josh to the 3. The only way I can see it working (at least on offense) is if the center is capable of attacking from the perimeter, ala Andrea Bargnani or Mehmet Okur. Otherwise, a bigger, rugged center would have to be a guy who stays out of the way on offense, except to maybe get a dump-off pass for a dunk or layup (like Samuel Dalembert playing next to Elton Brand).

However, I share your concerns about Josh Smith and his jump-shooting skills (or lack thereof). He seems determined to be able to make the shot, and I do think he should keep trying. But I’d much rather him take those sparingly, and work REALLY, REALLY hard on making that jumper during the offseason. Moving him to the 3 may mean more than just him playing on the perimeter more on offense.

It would also mean that he would be called on more to defend “on the ball.” Personally, that bothers me more than him taking jumpers. Josh is a good defender, but he’s better when he can support from the weak side, rather than guard a guy who has moves and can dribble, because it will take all of his concentration to stay on the one guy. Plus, he can be faked into the air at times, which is an easy way to draw a foul. If that happens, he may become frustrated and then his level of play will go down even further, or he’ll be taken out of the game, due to foul trouble. Josh is better tracking those guys to the basket than he is having to defend them straight up.

But, we’ll see what happens.

Ken Strickland

March 25th, 2010
8:20 pm

ROD FROM CP-Stevie Wonder could have watched last nights gm and seen more than you obviously saw? You need to spend more time MAKING SENSE rather than always trying to MAKE A POINT. Do you actually watch the gms? I can’t believe you were dilusional enough to imply we got 2 quick fowls on DHoward and 3 quick fowls on his backup Gortat in the 1st quarter by running pick and pops. Are you also implying Howard got his 4 blocks blocking pick and pop jumpshots?

Hell, even MBibby took it to the rim and challenged him on one occasion, although he got his shot blocked. Yes, we started the gm off with our usual pick and pops, and fell behind because it wasn’t working. Woodson changed our OFF and DEF approach when he sent JCrawford into the gm. Instead of continuing those pick and pops like we usually do, we started going to our bigs and our backcourt started going to the basket. Our frontline worked the hell out of Howard. We went after them in the lane so hard that at one point Orlando sat both Howard and Gortat down and played BBass at C.

Although Horford isn’t a dominant type of center, his intelligence, agressiveness, athleticism, versatility and talent are enough to allow him to neutralize most opposing centers. His unrelenting approach usually wears opposing centers down, which is why he does so well in the 2nd half.

LAST NIGHT OUR ATLANTA HAWKS DID WHAT TEAMS THAT HAVE SUCCESSFULLY DEFEATED ORLANDO HAVE BEEN DOING, AND THAT’S TAKE IT TO HOWARD, MAKE HIM WORK HARD AND GET HIM INTO EARLY FOUL TROUBLE. Your pick and pop BS is what we’ve done in the past, and we’ve gotten out butts handed to us as a results. This time, Woody finally made a key in gm adjustment, even though he just had to try it the old way first and suffer the usual early beatdown and deficit.

IF Woodson had stepped up during some of our earlier losses and made in gm adjustments like he did last night, we’d be a hell of a lot closer to beating Orlando out for the conference title.

Hawk n the Ham

March 25th, 2010
8:21 pm

I think Marvin would flourish on a different team. I would see Marvin fitting in real well with Phil Jackson and his offense. Marvin reminds me of an untapped Pippen type player.

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
8:23 pm

BirdDawg ,

It’s just my opinion, but all of those skills and potential is nothing without the drive to get it done. Josh couldn’t dribble to save his life when he came into this league. All he could do is run and jump. Now the guy is 2nd on the team in assists, third in scoring, and can get to the basket better than many.

Marvin just doesn’t have that drive, or he doesn’t have enough of it. He came off the bench in his only college season, and there was a reason for it. Truly great freshmen start, unless there is somebody ahead of them who is clearly better. Ask Carmelo Anthony. Mike Beasley. Kevin Durant. John Wall. It is what it is.

And you can’t teach aggressiveness. I’m not saying throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater, but I’m not sure he can be (at least on this team, as currently constructed) more than he’s ever been. On another team, maybe it’s another story. Maybe not. I don’t know.

Blast

March 25th, 2010
8:23 pm

Last few games, I’ve noticed this:

Joe is far more effective when he moves without the ball, like Rip Hamilton. I’ve noticed that when Joe moves off screens and gets the ball for a wide open jumper, he is very very dangerous. I would say he converts 70 per cent of his open jumpers. But when they iso Joe, he holds the ball too long, and he SEEMS to dribble towards the defenders, instead of AWAY from them. And when your star player dribbles the ball that long, he attracts defenders like hyenas to carrion. Most of Joe’s 4th quarters turnovers occur when he tries to make plays or pass off double/triple teams.

He needs to pass out quicker before the double gets there. Joe needs to realize that Hawks don’t need him anymore to make ALL the players. We have other players.

The iso game is not bad. It worked well against teams like the Celtics. But I would rather have Jamal isolated with the ball than Joe. Jamal does not pound the ball. He attacks quickly! And passes when he does not have a shot. If Joe can learn those traits, I’d say he would be a much more better basketball player.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
8:35 pm

Blue-Ray

“It would also mean that he would be called on more to defend “on the ball.” Personally, that bothers me more than him taking jumpers. Josh is a good defender, but he’s better when he can support from the weak side, rather than guard a guy who has moves and can dribble, because it will take all of his concentration to stay on the one guy.”

I fear that if Josh goes to the #3, it will pull him too far out of the paint. He thrives in the paint, and the team will his greatest assets..which are many!

Blocks, Steals, changing – shots, passing, assists…etc. Josh is a lot more talented than Kirilenko, but their games are extremely similar. Josh is a rare-special talent. He literally jumps out of the gym!

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
8:38 pm

Marvin like Pippen? I hate to argue (ok, so I like it a little bit..sometimes), but I don’t know if he can be that kind of defender or attack the basket that aggressively.

I do think that either Joe would have to be gone, or Marvin would have to be on another team for us to know for sure, though.

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
8:39 pm

Big Ray,

You’re absolutely right, you can teach aggressivness, but it can be developed. Marvin has shown enough to be able to say that he has it in him, it’s just on the player to make an conscious effort to get it done and on the coach to find out what makes that player tick in order to get the best out of him. Marvin is a 6′9″, 6′10″ pure shooter with the quickness and handle of a shooting guard plus he plays tenacious defense. He makes his mistakes like any player, but a guy like that is a matchup nightmare in any league. I just can’t believe that someone with that type of ability can be as useless to the team as most would have you think.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
8:42 pm

kenS

“LAST NIGHT OUR ATLANTA HAWKS DID WHAT TEAMS THAT HAVE SUCCESSFULLY DEFEATED ORLANDO HAVE BEEN DOING, AND THAT’S TAKE IT TO HOWARD, MAKE HIM WORK HARD AND GET HIM INTO EARLY FOUL TROUBLE.”

I called the exact same game plan that you stated prior to that game. I figured if we go at Dwight hard, he would have to play defense and end up with quick fouls and er’ go sit his azz on the pine.
It worked like perfection imo.

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
8:42 pm

Blast ,

Agreed. Which points towards coaching, really. We should give Joe more opportunities to score without having to create his own shot all the time. The problem is, he is good at creating his own shot, but it always calls for a more difficult shot, and some defenders can give him problems. Pietrus and Barnes were doing a number on him, forcing him to the baseline where Howard could help out.

I’ll never forget Sautee talking to me one time, when he said that his wife said Woody thinks Joe is better than he really is. That’s no knock on Joe at all. But we can’t keep putting him in a position where he nearly ALWAYS has to create his own shot. Joe is not that good. Guess what? Neither is Kobe. Or Lebron. Or Wade. Or anybody else. They all need a little help every now and then, here and there.

More than a screen or two per game would be nice.

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
8:44 pm

Hawk n the Ham,

I’m with you more than most would be. I honestly think Marvin has the talent, length, athleticism and intelligence to be a top 10 – 20 player in this league. With all the tools that he has at his disposal, I’m at a loss to explain why it hasn’t materialized to this point. He’s shown flashes, but not consistency.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
8:48 pm

B-Dawg

“Marvin is a 6′9″, 6′10″ pure shooter with the quickness and handle of a shooting guard plus he plays tenacious defense.”

Exactly my point. I don’t know if he is a pure shooter though, maybe if he garnered some real confidence. Again, he is a very quiet, gentle, shy kid though. Kind of reminds me of Michael Vick’s personality – “but without a dog-in-the-fight” no pun intended there.

Just personality wise, Marvin seems very shy & quiet. He is a really good kid though, I hope he doesn’t read or hear the criticisms on the blog though, I don’t feel he is mentally tough enough to read a blog like this with all the name-calling….(i.e. duck-but, etc)

He does kind of remind me of Boris Diaw though with his game skills and played better in Phoenix when Amare was down for that season injury.

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
8:50 pm

drmaryb ,

I agree. Kirilenko is more of an on-ball defender than Josh is. He’s got a better jumper, too. Josh is better than Kirilenko at catching people in the open court. Better than just about anybody.

BirdDawg ,

I’m fairly convinced that Woody is just not that kind of coach. Marvin isn’t useless, and to say so is straight up BS. But I expect that from some people. I think Woody is a “show me” coach, though. If you don’t show him what you can do, he’ll never have a clue that you can do it. You have to show him in practice, you have to show him in games. He’s not going to try and find out what makes you tick, or how to bring it out of you. That’s just the vibe I get from him, but I don’t know the guy personally.

The thing about Marvin that makes me think he lacks the amount of aggression needed to do more for a team like this is the opportunities he gets. He rarely ever tries to take anybody off the dribble. Seriously, watch him. He never draws a double team. He usually only does two things when faced with a lone defender: pass it or shoot the jumper. Again, this isn’t every single time, but he rarely, rarely tries to take anybody off the dribble or post them up. When he does post up, it’s because he’s already tried to get into position to do so, and managed to succeed.

That’s why I have serious doubts about his aggression. The good news is that he doesn’t need that full-time aggression to help this team. He need only fill the wing on fast breaks, hit open shots, grab rebounds, and play good defense. We have enough guys taking and creating shots.

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
8:52 pm

I don’t know, Big Ray. Kobe, Lebron and Wade can create their own shots pretty much at will. They won’t win that way, but they could do it. I don’t think Joe is THAT good either, but with Jamal on the floor with him, he doesn’t have to be. I can live with Joe creating open shots for Jamaal at the ends of games or vice versa.

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
8:58 pm

To be a top 10 or 20 player in this league, Marvin has to show he is better than anybody on this team, except Joe Johnson. Seriously.

And if that were the case, he would have exhibited some of those signs by now. Five years later, he has regressed (this season), rather than progressed. Rare examples (Chauncey Billups) of late bloomers are out there, but I don’t think this is one of them. To me, that smacks of him not being what he was expected to be, which is not his fault.

You pick a guy at #2, you’re hoping for great things, right? Well, what does that have to do with the guy himself? Is it HIS fault you thought he could be better than he is? No. Marvin isn’t useless, I just don’t think he’s destined to be what some of us keep looking for, and what people said he had the potential to be when he got picked in the draft. Maybe I’m wrong, but so far I ain’t.

But hey, he’s not the only one. Darko Milicic will never be as good as Marvin. He was picked #2, and I’d argue that he IS just about useless. How about Michael Beasley, who destroyed even Kevin Durant’s college stats? Am I supposed to be impressed with 15 and 6 on a team that features only one other legitimate offensive threat (Jermaine O’Neal would be a third, but he’s a shell of what he once was)?

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
8:59 pm

Drmaryb,

I didn’t mean pure shooter as in he would shoot the lights out like Ray Allen, I meant that his jump shot is almost perfect(good form, shoulders squared to the basket, great follow through,etc.) He’s definitely lacking that “something” that makes great players, but he has the tools.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
9:00 pm

Blue-Ray

Your Mama named you Big-Ray, but im gonna call you Blue-Ray till the day I die..
because…..that’s what you do!

You be hittin’ this blog like a Beam-of-Light!

i.e. Crystal Clear.
Sharp Picture with your words.
No distortions.
on Point.

ok, i gotta go do some laundry and pay some bills. I will check back later tonight before nite-nite.

ps: Coming to America.. Eddie Murphy in the Barber Shop talking about… Cascous-sp Clay who changed his name to Muhammad Ali. His mama named him Cascous-sp Clay, so Im gonna call him Cascous Clay! dammit! lol!

Hawk n the Ham

March 25th, 2010
9:01 pm

Maybe someone just needs to go all Clockwork Orange on Marvin. Strap him down, lock his eyelids open, and force feed him subliminal images of Pippen at work…..of course someone needs to stand by him to put the eyedrops in…..

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
9:01 pm

I don’t know, Big Ray. Kobe, Lebron and Wade can create their own shots pretty much at will. They won’t win that way, but they could do it.

Well yeah, that was sorta my point . Even Michael Jordan had to learn that this was not the path to winning it all. So if those guys can’t expect to win that way, why put Joe in that kind of position? That’s what I was getting at. I like to see those two create more opportunities for each other as well. Joe is better at it than Jamal is, needless to say. He’s just a better ball-handler when it comes to facilitation.

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
9:03 pm

drmaryb ,

Blue-Ray it is! Later on, girl!

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
9:05 pm

Blue-Ray

mmmmh! I know..Marvin being picked number two may have cursed him. How, do you live up to being picked so high when your personality is so laid back?

Reminds me of Joe Smith going at #1, I don’t ever remember him playing like a #1 pick ever.
But then MJ was taken at #5 and Sam Bowie @ #1 by Portland. Sam Bowie was a lot like Marvin, maybe not, Sam Bowie was more like Greg Ogden-sp always hurt, never played much.

Aren’t you glad we didnt pick Ogden-sp?

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
9:05 pm

I think Marvin has more all around RAW talent than just about anyone on this team. True, he hasn’t come close to putting it all together, but he has all the tools. If the light ever does come on, I honestly feel Marvin could be a Kevin Durant type player in the right situation.

Hawk n the Ham

March 25th, 2010
9:10 pm

Why doesn’t Dominique work with Marvin? Doesn’t it seem like we have the best player-coach for swingman players right in our own organization?

JeJe

March 25th, 2010
9:14 pm

WOODSON IS SUPPOSED TO BE A DEFENSIVE COACH BUT CANNOT RUN AN EFFECTIVE DOUBLE TEAM OF THE OPPOSING TEAM’S STAR PLAYER ON A NIGHTLY BASIS. HIS DEFENSIVE P&R SWITCHES ARE RETARDED AS AN UNDERSTATEMENT AND THE IDIOT CALLS TIMEOUTS IN CLOSE GAMES SO HE CAN RUN A JOE ISO WHEN IT’D BE MUCH BETTER IF WE RAN THE ISO WITHOUT TIMEOUT SO THE DEFENSE COULDN’T ADJUST

FIRE WOODY

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
9:19 pm

drmaryb ,

Point taken. If Oden can ever stay healthy, the Blazers take over the West…

Hawk n the Ham ,

‘Nique as a coach? Well, if his Xs and Os are anything like his “nimbers”….

I couldn’t resist…

Hawk n the Ham

March 25th, 2010
9:22 pm

I’m not saying hire Nique as a coaching staff member…..I’m saying Marvin have Nique work with him in the offseason.

Hawk n the Ham

March 25th, 2010
9:24 pm

Also, I think a major factor of Marvin’s seemingly regression this season as a scorer has to do with the injuries he dealt with last season. He just seems to be a little more timid this year, playing not to get hurt. Just my 2 pennies……

BirdDawg

March 25th, 2010
9:32 pm

I tend to agree with the good doctor’s(maryb) assessment of Marvin. He is a mild mannered guy who decided to take a back seat to the other guys on the team. With Joe, the emergence of Josh and Al and the addition of Jamaal, Marvin has pretty much resigned himself to being the sidekick. I would hate to see Joe leave, but if he does I would like to think that we would see a more aggressive and effective Marvin.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
9:34 pm

Ham

I believe Marvin’s Dad works with daily on his jumper for a couple hours.
Same as Chipper Jones and his dad does with his batting slumps.

Big Ray

March 25th, 2010
9:35 pm

I would hate to see Joe leave, but if he does I would like to think that we would see a more aggressive and effective Marvin.

Agreed. Because it’s either that, or we’re making a trade of some sort…

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
10:02 pm

Blue-Ray

Joe will resign here. Larry Bird Rule allows Hawks to Max-Pay him. Also, this is Joe’s team

He loves his teammates & coaches. F-Agency is like having your just deserts. Any agent worth his salt will always explore the market place, you have to. Joe wants to be wanted & courted & pursued its flattering to do that. He’s not DIVA but he will come back.

All All-Stars do that. Kobe did it, LeBron’s doing it too, he’ll go back to Cleveland.
Remember Joe came here to play in the East to be near Arkansas.

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
10:06 pm

B – Level FA’s tend to follow the money though. Ala Byron D. To the Clippers, esp. If unhappy with current teams.

Grandad

March 25th, 2010
10:35 pm

Too much to get in between games:

Big Ray – I do not wish for Wdsn to fail.

On Marv: R.f.C.P. – You’re right. No excuses.
I’m on record as saying he needs to be traded.
(for his and the greater good)
I’ve said before, not just today, Marv is out of pos. offensively.
I think he would make a marvelous high post.
Some players cannot create their own shots & need to be assisted.
Some it’s nature, some skill. Imagine if Nash were playing with Marv, would his scoring be up? Of course it would.

As for Marv, Josh, Al, & even Joe; I said a few days ago that I thought our personel lends itself to the triangle. One would have to be somewhat versed to understand but my point is players would not be
harnessed to a pos.[#]. Offensively people could quit worrying about
Al as a [5], etc. Also players could move, therefore catch & shoot in rhythm. Also, effectively ending Iso-Joe.

Josh – a [3]. He would be awesome. He could be the next/better Artest.
My opinion, kinda like my hind end. You know the rest.
He’s already a quasi [3] on offense. Otherwise why is he parked
in the corner so much. Plus he has a wonderful feel for assisting.

Back to Marv: Sorry, but he’s not Pippin. Today, tomorrow,
day after tomorrow, yesterday, well you get my point.
Closer to a longer armed Shane Battier.

Back to the tourney. How ’bout them dogs! [Butler]
Go Cornell!

northcyde

March 25th, 2010
10:40 pm

My bad Rod, I meant to post this 3 hours ago.

Field Goal Attempts per 48 min . . . . in Clutch situations:

Johnson: 30.6
Crawford: 17.5
Smith: 13.5
Horford: 10.2
Marvin: 5.7

So you’re right. Marvin may have a high percentage, but he may have only taken 8 – 10 shots all year in “clutch” situations. The majority of looks are going to JJ, with Crawford and Smoove being next in line.

Melvin

March 25th, 2010
11:12 pm

You want more Josh, now you got more Josh…

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2010/03/24/20100324_ahmad_jsmith.nba/

northcyde

March 25th, 2010
11:35 pm

And while other teams may or may not use the ISO approach at the end of games, their star player sure does end up with the ball a lot. So let’s kind of put to rest that the Hawks are the only ones in the league that are running ISO at the end of games.

Field Goal Attempts per 48 min . . . in Clutch situations:

1) Lebron – 40.6 att/48
2) Kobe – 36.3
3) Dirk – 33.0
4) Melo – 32.7
T5) Johnson – 30.6 ( Note: only Lebron shoots better than him in the clutch, of the 4 guys ahead of him )

T5) T. Evans – 30.6
7) Carter – 30.2
8] Rose – 30.0
9) Ellis – 29.8
10) Wade – 29.4

sam'l

March 25th, 2010
11:38 pm

I’ll try one more time.

No one dislikes Woody as a human being. For months, we have been sitting here, trying to figure out scenarios to utilize the Hawks’ talented team, a team many have labeled “schizophrenic” for wild swings in productivity. We;ve gone over personnel, zones, etc, etc,trades, salary caps, blah, blah., This is a great team. Horford, Josh Smith, Joe Johnson and Crawford are as good as anyone in the rest of the league and a heck of a lot more interesting to watch. .We are hoping that Woodson has finally gotten to the point where his strategic skills match his talent.

(Caution: This blog is not approved by the Yes Party or the IRS who will hound you to buy health insurance).

drmaryb

March 25th, 2010
11:39 pm

This is the 1st year
I have seen the Hawks systematically swing the ball to all 5 spots before finding the best shot avble. They look like a professional organized ball club to me.

I saw glimpses of this immediately when Mr. Bibby arrived on that plane. He ran organized plays & made it easier for Joe to get his shots. That’s why I love Mr. Bibby, he got the team to another level of play & is a coach on the floor. But he was also trying to fit in @ first.

Its like starting a new job & you don’t know anyone yet. Then he started having fun w/the guys & pulling pranks on the team flights. Then he re-signed for a 50% pay cut.

How can you not love a guy like him? Between him & Coach
& Mr. Johnson, & Mr. Sund paying the contracts to everybody…?

Now its just basketball. You see maturity from the kids games &
They’re growing up…sharing the ball & executing Coach’s game plan.
Another year together & this team is scary – sick! Unstoppable!

RLP

March 25th, 2010
11:39 pm

For all of you asking Josh to work on his jumpers during the summer I have yet to see anyone complain that he should work on his free throw shooting. In his first four years he hit 69%, 72%, 69% and 71%. Last year h hit 59% and this year he is at 63%. I am a big fan of his game but sometimes I get the feeling that he does not work nearly as hard as he should during the off-season. I remember when Dominique came to town Dan Roundfield took him under his wing and taught ‘Nique how to use the off season to improve his game. Josh has improved his game but I think he would be unstoppable if he had the perseverance to really work on those aspects of his game where he is weakest. If he had Big Al’s work ethic he would have already gotten there.

cp

March 26th, 2010
12:05 am

I’m glad big Al spoke out about the ball movement. Lets just hope the guards were listening…. Josh Smith had a different form on his jumper in high school. It actually didn’t look that bad. I have no idea why he changed it. Maybe he should look at some old film and try going back to that form. I doubt it would hurt at all ……Marvin has talent but its just frustrating to see him play so inconsistently. He is way too passive and defers too often. He needs a mean streak or something. The way our team is built I don’t know if he will ever put up the numbers HE COULD be capable of producing. All i want him to do is play more consistently and hit the glass.

drmaryb

March 26th, 2010
12:08 am

Sam’L

Don’t you remember Josh figjting w/Coach on the sidelines? Jacking up 3’s like crazy. Being suspended
For being a Jack-Azz in practice.

That’s why Billy couldn’t have Sheed on this team influencing & bullying the 18 year old kids, I guess.
Besides Sheed was too old & we were re-building anyways.

But Mr. Woodson went through a lot of growing pains with this young team. He had to take Josh’s dad out to dinner to discuss Josh’s behavior & attitude issues just 4 years ago (in year 2). Josh was only 19 then.

Coach & Josh had to be separated in the locker room after one game – allegedly. Just because a Coach draws a play – it doesn’t necc. mean it is executed as drawn up. Call me a sap, but I just see growth &
Maturity on this team. If we can be a little more patient, I promise you we ate right there!

I love my team! I just pray we can re-sign Joe & prepare to sign Al, he’s next in line @ the pay window.
I love Crawford big-time too! Did you see that sweet behind the back cross-over last. Nite in the lane for 2 points?

BirdDawg

March 26th, 2010
12:18 am

The Xavier/Kansas State game is awesome!!! I wish it was the Bulldogs, though.

Ken Strickland

March 26th, 2010
12:21 am

If we lose JJ, and I hope we don’t but I’m almost certain we will, it won’t be the end of the world for the Hawks. We’ll just have to do like the Bucks and pick up a player like Salmons to replace him. His DEF, ballhandling and assists will be the hardest things to replace. However, without JJ, we definitely couldn’t afford to start Bibby.

With better ball movement, more involvement from Marvin offensively and hopefully better overall PG play from Teague, we won’t lose that much, especially if JJ’s replacement can play DEF.

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
12:22 am

RLP . . . and his poor FT% is a clear indication that his jumper won’t improve any.

Smoove, in my opinion would have to completely change his shot, in order for him to have a decent jumper. He has a much better chance trying to perfect his running hook shot or a few extra post moves, than he does the 20 FT jumper.

BirdDawg

March 26th, 2010
12:27 am

As I said before, If JJ leaves(and I hope he doesn’t) Marvin has the RAW skill to replace a lot of the production the team gets from Joe. Whether or not he would be able to put it all together is a coin toss, though.

Grandad

March 26th, 2010
12:30 am

drmaryb:

Rasheed was only here for 1 game.
They had the trade worked out with the Pistons even before he arrived.
If memory serves, Wdsn was not here yet.
Also if memory serves, it was that trade which netted us one of the Joshes. The 18 yr. olds were not here yet.
Mr. Knight (who made the worst draft pick of all time [Sheldon]),
had begun the process of blowing up the team.
Yawl thought I was gonna say Marv, didn’t you? Yeah, you did.
It also was not Sheldon’s fault (just like Marv @ 2) that Mr. Knight
picked him that high, instead of trading down & selecting Rondo.

Big Ump

March 26th, 2010
12:54 am

drmaryb you are a class act. . I wished some of your class rub off on some of us. I enjoy reading your post’s.

Grandad

March 26th, 2010
12:56 am

RLP & northcyde:

Josh’s FT’s actually look better. He’s holding his follow through
much better. It seems Mark Price is working with him.
Any change that is worthwhile/lasting takes time.
One doesn’t learn to shoot incorrectly overnight, so the same
applies for the opposite. Bad habits > good habits,
you know the drill.
As for jumpers…he needs to stick to mid-range and shoot in rhythm.
I hate to keep harping on this but all his perimeter shots are
stand-still set shots. Actually, launched, not shot!

Big RED couldn’t hang with Big BLUE.

Ken Strickland:
Mr. Sund will earn his money if Joe does leave.
However, with the right coach…a team built around
Josh & Al could be terrific with more balance & team oriented.
Jeff & Jamal in the back ct. could be exciting.
We would not necessarily need a SS, but a solid Pro.
Joe is not a SS, but he is really good, & would be missed.
More so if we were to bring in a coach who could maximize talent.

Rod from College Park

March 26th, 2010
12:58 am

“As I said before, If JJ leaves(and I hope he doesn’t) Marvin has the RAW skill to replace a lot of the production the team gets from Joe. Whether or not he would be able to put it all together is a coin toss, though.”

These are the kinds of statements that make you wonder if this person has any basketball knowledge at all. Marvin does absolutely nothing on the basketball court close to what Joe Johnson does, except shoot free throws. What RAW skill does he have? Clumsiness. He can’t dribble, not aggressive, can’t hit open shots, can’t stay on his feet, can’t post up anyone, can’t shoot with a hand in his face, below average defender, can’t defend but one position, can’t finish at the rim, plays small for his size, is a below average rebounder, does not have a go to move, not quick or fast……… AND YOU THINK HE COULD PRODUCE LIKE THE THIRD BEST SG IN THE LEAGUE. WOW!!!!!!!!!

Grandad

March 26th, 2010
1:05 am

R.f.C.P. :

For once we see eye to eye. (almost)
It’s nice to agree with you for a change.
I hope you’re not insulted by having a
similar opinion with this ol’ dinosaur.

NUNNA YO BIZNEZZ

March 26th, 2010
1:24 am

i think joe will set up an ultimatum with the hawks..
i’ll re-sign if woody is the coach..
so,if woody is not brought back,don’t look for jj to stay stay..

NUNNA YO BIZNEZZ

March 26th, 2010
1:31 am

hello echo:”hello,hello,hello,hello”..

where is everyone??
im all alone..

and im talking to myself or,texting to myself,lol..
hey handsome man!!
lol..im just kidding..and im sleepy

i enjoyed this blog tonite..just reading the level heads like rod,drmaryb,big ray,cyde up north,and others..

and the not so level ones,like myself,has just entertained me for the past hour..people going back and forth,it was good conversation..

i hope this time tomorrow we’re not tripping on issues that we’ve been tripping on all year with this team..
and,i hope all is well with u all and for you to have a good nite..

godsnite!!

NUNNA YO BIZNEZZ

March 26th, 2010
1:34 am

yo..
drmaryb said:
“But Mr. Woodson went through a lot of growing pains with this young team. He had to take Josh’s dad out to dinner to discuss Josh’s behavior & attitude issues just 4 years ago (in year 2). Josh was only 19 then”.
i never heard about that..how did u find out??
are you the mrs??

NUNNA YO BIZNEZZ

March 26th, 2010
1:56 am

ok..im going for real this time,lol..

but,someone just sent me this link..i told him about JT0 and he forwarded this to me..
da boyz got skillz!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwposMephTM

Big Ray

March 26th, 2010
4:46 am

I remember when Dominique came to town Dan Roundfield took him under his wing and taught ‘Nique how to use the off season to improve his game.

True. But tell me who is mentoring Josh Smith? Until Joe Smith came to town, he had NOBODY to look up to on this team, for his entire young career. That had to have something to do with his somehwhat slow progress in some areas.

Big Ray

March 26th, 2010
4:49 am

Grandad ,

Can’t argue with this:

Mr. Sund will earn his money if Joe does leave.
However, with the right coach…a team built around
Josh & Al could be terrific with more balance & team oriented.
Jeff & Jamal in the back ct. could be exciting.
We would not necessarily need a SS, but a solid Pro.
Joe is not a SS, but he is really good, & would be missed.
More so if we were to bring in a coach who could maximize talent.

drmaryb

March 26th, 2010
8:17 am

Sam’L

Do you remember when Josh was 18 – 19 years old?
He was so raw, He fought the coach on the side-lines & pouted. Josh was suspended by Coach for cussing homon the bench. Allegedly, he & Woody were separated in the locker room post game.

Coach had to meet with Josh & his Dad @ dinner to discuss Josh’s attitude & behavior. Coach had some serious growing pains in only his 2nd year of a 3 year contract.

Probably why Billy K. Had to move Sheed onto Detroit 48 hrs after he de-planed. Sheed was too old anyway & would have been bad example for the kids. Besides we were dumping salaries & re-building anyway.

Joe & Coach went through a lot of teachable moments here & that was just 36 months ago.
Just because the Coach drew up a play – that doesn’t mean it was being executed. Josh was jacking up 3s like Pac-Man Jones was making it rain in strip clubs!

Then we got Bibby…now we are growing the bench a little. Man, that’s doing work!
You remember when KOBE was threatening to opt-out and walk 36 months ago, If Jerry Buss didn’t get him some help in LA….then they got Pau?.

Look how far we’ve come & Woody was being screwed by Billy – but Billy was asked to resign instead?
How could Billy blame Coach when he drafted Shelden & refused to take Chris or Deron & Coach had no point guard? Royal Ivey was here…are you kidding me? Oh the memories – I have…it all seems like it just happened yesterday! LoL!

We can’t put all that blame on Mr. Woodson – That just aint right. LOL! We got a nice team but give us another season to grow & show. I say we make it to the EC Finals though…then who knows?
We still got to beat KOBE NEM’…

drmaryb

March 26th, 2010
8:17 am

Sam’L

Do you remember when Josh was 18 – 19 years old?
He was so raw, He fought the coach on the side-lines & pouted. Josh was suspended by Coach for cussing homon the bench. Allegedly, he & Woody were separated in the locker room post game.

Coach had to meet with Josh & his Dad @ dinner to discuss Josh’s attitude & behavior. Coach had some serious growing pains in only his 2nd year of a 3 year contract.

Probably why Billy K. Had to move Sheed onto Detroit 48 hrs after he de-planed. Sheed was too old anyway & would have been bad example for the kids. Besides we were dumping salaries & re-building anyway.

Joe & Coach went through a lot of teachable moments here & that was just 36 months ago.
Just because the Coach drew up a play – that doesn’t mean it was being executed. Josh was jacking up 3s like Pac-Man Jones was making it rain in strip clubs!

Then we got Bibby…now we are growing the bench a little. Man, that’s doing work!
You remember when KOBE was threatening to opt-out and walk 36 months ago, If Jerry Buss didn’t get him some help in LA….then they got Pau?.

Look how far we’ve come & Woody was being screwed by Billy – but Billy was asked to resign instead?
How could Billy blame Coach when he drafted Shelden & refused to take Chris or Deron & Coach had no point guard? Royal Ivey was here…are you kidding me? Oh the memories – I have…it all seems like it just happened yesterday! LoL!

We can’t put all that blame on Mr. Woodson – That just aint right. LOL! We got a nice team but give us another season to grow & show. I say we make it to the EC Finals though…then who knows?
We still got to beat KOBE NEM’…

drmaryb

March 26th, 2010
8:18 am

Sam’L

Do you remember when Josh was 18 – 19 years old?
He was so raw, He fought the coach on the side-lines & pouted. Josh was suspended by Coach for cussing homon the bench. Allegedly, he & Woody were separated in the locker room post game.

Coach had to meet with Josh & his Dad @ dinner to discuss Josh’s attitude & behavior. Coach had some serious growing pains in only his 2nd year of a 3 year contract.

Probably why Billy K. Had to move Sheed onto Detroit 48 hrs after he de-planed. Sheed was too old anyway & would have been bad example for the kids. Besides we were dumping salaries & re-building anyway.

Joe & Coach went through a lot of teachable moments here & that was just 36 months ago.
Just because the Coach drew up a play – that doesn’t mean it was being executed. Josh was jacking up 3s like Pac-Man Jones was making it rain in strip clubs!

Then we got Bibby…now we are growing the bench a little. Man, that’s doing work!
You remember when KOBE was threatening to opt-out and walk 36 months ago, If Jerry Buss didn’t get him some help in LA….then they got Pau?.

Look how far we’ve come & Woody was being screwed by Billy – but Billy was asked to resign instead?
How could Billy blame Coach when he drafted Shelden & refused to take Chris or Deron & Coach had no point guard? Royal Ivey was here…are you kidding me? Oh the memories – I have…it all seems like it just happened yesterday! LoL!

We can’t put all that blame on Mr. Woodson – That just ain’t. right. LOL! We got a nice team but give us another season to grow & show. I say we make it to the EC Finals though…then who knows?
We still got to beat KOBE NEM’…

JeJe

March 26th, 2010
8:53 am

WOODSON IS SUPPOSED TO BE A DEFENSIVE COACH BUT CANNOT RUN AN EFFECTIVE DOUBLE TEAM OF THE OPPOSING TEAM’S STAR PLAYER ON A NIGHTLY BASIS. HIS DEFENSIVE P&R SWITCHES ARE RETARDED AS AN UNDERSTATEMENT AND THE IDIOT CALLS TIMEOUTS IN CLOSE GAMES SO HE CAN RUN A JOE ISO WHEN IT’D BE MUCH BETTER IF WE RAN THE ISO WITHOUT TIMEOUT SO THE DEFENSE COULDN’T ADJUST

FIRE WOODY

O'Brien

March 26th, 2010
8:55 am

Lots of good conversations on the blog so far. That’s awesome.

Grandad,

Woody is on record saying that he played 11 or 12 years in the league, and he only had a couple plays called for him. I know that’s probably an exxageration, but he was talking directly about Marvin, and how he needs to be more assertive and stop deferring so much. Plus Woody has brought Marvin into his office recently to talk to him about his play.

Before the season, Rick Sund said that he expects Marvin to step his game up this year, because the Hawks will need him as they continue their climb in the EC.

So with all this prodding from the HC and GM, I dont think its fair to say that Marvin needs to have shots called for him, or to be more involved in the offense. It’s on him to step up and grab the opportunity. Even when he grabs a rebound, its like hot potato. So quick to give it up.

And if he was scoring more, I think Woody would actually go to him sometimes. But there is nothing he has shown me to suggest that he deserves to have plays called for him. And thats why I think he would be a solid bench player. And if he is not scoring, there is still room for improvement on defense and rebounding.

Ray,

Josh is also a better passer than AK47. But I hope Josh continues to work on his on ball defense. Can we start a petition to Hakeem to become our big man coach?

If JJ leaves, we have Crawford to help us out offensively. But defensively, we would take a HUGE step back, especially if Bibby is still our starting PG. Because who would guard the quick PGs, and who would guard the all-star SFs that Marvin struggles against?

Starting Teague would help defensively (over time), but I dont think he’s ready to be a starter. Our best bet would be a sign and trade for JJ if decides to leave. If we can’t work out a sign and trade, we need to bring Chills back to be our backup SF, Evans would be our backup SG, and we would need another PG (even if its a combo guard). And one solid addition to the front court.

But the Hawks need JJ, so I hope he resigns.

Mike is Back

March 26th, 2010
10:43 am

BirdDawg, Marvin is an enigma…you can’t figure him out…his biggest is asset is that he is a team guy…but in terms of his understanding of the game and picking situation where his size and talent give him the best chance to succeed…he is still is trying to figure that out…much so than Josh and Al. He either looks really bad…or really good…no in between…go figure…hmmmmmmmm.

I think that was mainly why some including myself would to like see Marvin play on the second unit…just to see if plays more aggressive…maybe that gives him a better opportunity to figure things out…but with without a doubt I think the talent is there for Marvin to be a 20-10 guy. I think even if he could give us 10-10 on a consistent basis…that would be a big boost to the team.

Big Ray, I thought those were very interesting comments from Big Al and something that has been mentioned a KA ZILLIONS times on the blogs lol…that young man is a born leader. It has been a treat watching his game evolve at the pivot…he certainly can hold that spot down until there is a viable solution.

The guy that has taken advantage of his opportunity is Mo…Mo has really step his game…he has picked it up defensively. I hope Teague looks at a guy like Mo approach to the game and learn something about professionalism and attitude…he is making the most out of the opportunities that he gets. THAT’S WHATZ UP.

KEEP IT GOING HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JeJe

March 26th, 2010
12:45 pm

Center Al Horford said the problem often has been ball movement.

“That really falls on the guys that are running our team,” he said. “The guards have the ball in their hands. They control the game, and that’s something they have to kind of realize.”.

drmaryb

March 26th, 2010
12:47 pm

Grand-Daddy

Is there a new blog? My blackberry is so small its hard to work from here – but here goes:

Thanks for that Rasheed Time-Line. I thought Woody was here then…its been a while I forget who coached us before Woody? We had Jet Terry, is all I remember. I just know we couldn’t get a player nor coach to come here. It was so bad with all the Spirit-Belkin In-Fighting.

The funniest part of the whole thing was that picture of BK refusing the Out-Stretched Hand of the ENEMY in the Court-House Lobby! LOL! Pure & Classic Day Time DRAMA! I became a Billy Fan that day!

Its nice to see how far we have come even though the DIVORCE is all but almost forgotten.
Shouldn’t the next Owner sign a Pre-Nuptual or something?

Were LUCKY Joe still wanted to come here? And it’s still not settled? If Joe leaves? That may be the reason.
I wish that David Last-Name?? Guy bought our team, but he was shafted by the Seller.

Big Ump

Thanks for the shout-out on here! I am so jacked up from beating Orlando! I just can’t stop blogging.
Great Win for the Fans too!

KenA

Where the hell are you & Mr. Davenpoop? Come on…Let’s Go!

Blue-Ray

I enjoyed Hogging this blog last nite. Great Stuff as usual! I think we need another 3 pt shooter on our team
…Can never have too many of those.

darrell starks

March 26th, 2010
12:48 pm

MIKE IS BACK i agree with you, marvin should be coming of the bench with the second unit and maybe he could get a better understanding what his role is, so for i dont no what part do marvin have on the team but if woody could bring him of the bench it could give him a boost of confindence.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
12:58 pm

It’s simply time to accept Marvin for who he is, and not what he can potentially can be. He’s not going to blossom into this 20 and 10 guy, or become assertive overnight. It’ll just be flashes of “goodness” here and there.

Right now, I can’t really say what Marvin’s niche is as a player. Or in other words, what is he known for doing? What is the obvious strength as a player he brings to the table? I guess the closest thing you can say, is that he defends. So maybe that will be his worth to this team in the future . . . as a defensive stopper.

The same goes with Smoove’s jumpshooting. Those of you who think his shot will or could improve, need to realize that he may be THE WORST jumpshooter in the league for a guy who takes the amount of outside shots he takes. So wishing that his shot will get better, isn’t really logical. He should simply work as hard as he can to being more polished around the rim.

BPJ

March 26th, 2010
1:01 pm

Forgive me if this is old news, but is Ilgauskas still a possibility for the Hawks? Horford is a terrific center, but for some opponents the Hawks need another big man. Against Orlando and Cleveland, a frontcourt of Horford, Ilgauskas, and Josh Smith might make sense.

BirdDawg

March 26th, 2010
1:04 pm

Rod from College Park,

Obviously you’re the one with limited basketball knowledge if that is your assessment of Marvin Williams. Raw talent means the physical tools necessary to be successful and regardless of the negative you could throw at Marvin he has better quickness, ball handling and shooting form than most of the guys in this league at his size. I also didn’t say that he could replace Joe Johnson, I said he could replace some of his production if he ever puts it all together and becomes more aggressive. As I said, he doesn’t show it at all times on the court, but you seem to confuse having no talent with not being aggressive. Allow me to me explain the difference to you. Shelden Williams has no talent. Boris Diaw with the Hawks was not aggresive however, look at his production once he left. I think class registration is open at the local junior college. You should probably look into signing up for Basketball 101 before you come back on this blog.

O'Brien

March 26th, 2010
1:08 pm

northcyde,

It has been mentioned that if Marvin can become a Bruce Bowen type of player (very good defender, and knock down the open 3 at key moments), then that will be good for the Hawks.

The question is, if Marvin is who he is, is he worth $7.5 mil for the next 4 years. What’s your opinion on that?

I look at guys like Petrius and Matt Barnes who (combined) still make less than Marvin, and I can’t help but think that Marvin is overpaid. I dont even think Marvin is top 15 among SF in the league.

But, as long as he is a Hawk, I will continue to root for him, and hope he gets it going, because he can be an X-factor in the playoffs.

drmaryb

March 26th, 2010
1:08 pm

Sorry for th multiple posts this morningg, my blackberry was having issues.

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
1:10 pm

And Woody has and does play Marvin with the 2nd unit. It still hasn’t helped. He played with the 2nd unit in the Milwaukee game, and basically did nothing offensively. Woody has tried to play that guy in multiple lineups this year, and it hasn’t worked.

He’s simply comfortable being a secondary guy. A little too comfortable at times, because he doesn’t function as an energy player most games. I’m most disappointed how his mid-range jumper has seemed to have completely left him. That’s the one thing you could say that he was known for 2 years ago. He can’t even make that shot now consistently.

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
1:20 pm

O’Brien . . he’s definitely the X-factor in the playoffs, no doubt on that. And you’re right. At the very least, he could be our Bowen, or Pietrus, or Martell Webster, or any other mediocre or niche SF you want to name.

And is he worth $7.5 million? Nah . . . not right now. Not until he plays with the consistency he showed back in the 07 – 08 season. Crawford coming in has definitely reduced his touches, there’s no doubt on that. But he has to make the most of his limited opportunities.

We’re going to either need the defensive version of Marvin . . or the mid-range version of Marvin, come playoff time. If he gives us nothing, we’re going to have problems most nights.

darrell starks

March 26th, 2010
1:34 pm

Marvin has no identity woody have 2 think of something, one thing i would like for marvin 2 do is stop standing around at the 3point line and get more invovle on the offensive board and starte playing inside more and help josh and horford more with the inside game and build up some type of identity on the team.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

bigdave

March 26th, 2010
1:35 pm

“What is wild about JJ is how he waits for the defense to come to him much of the time or even dribble towards them. ”

he’s inviting the double team so that he can find a open man… if he swung the ball too quickly the double team is just as affective as him holding the ball too long b/c it takes your best player out of the equation, and forces others to beat you. by being patient, Joe is able to find a open teammate who can either shot or make an additional pass to a teammate who has cut due to the rotating defense…

examples of this twice in the San An game where Al knocked down 2 late jumpers.. and when Joe hit Josh who then hit Al for a finish right at the rim.. this is due to Joe accepting the double team and making the right decision with the ball.

it is true that even as a jump shooter Joe likes to feel his opponent. you’d be surprised at the subtleties within his game that enable him to convert tough shots. such as how he uses his size, space, and strength to get his defender off balance or guessing…

darrell starks

March 26th, 2010
1:44 pm

Marvin will be the most important part on the hawks if marvin show up come playoff i believe we can make 2 conf. finals, if not we might get nock out in the first round and CLYDE GET HIS WISH BECAUSE WOODY WILL NOT BE BACK.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

March 26th, 2010
1:51 pm

Woody faith depend on marvin come playoffs, if i was woody i would starte moe and bring marvin of the bench.
GO HWKS!!!!!!!!

Melvin

March 26th, 2010
2:12 pm

OB, cosign your 1:08 post. Northcyde, like your at 1:20 as well…

O'Brien

March 26th, 2010
2:16 pm

If I’m Sund and Woody, I would do my best to bring Chills back at a reasonable price this offseason. And then in training camp, I would tell Marvin and Chills that it’s open competition for the starting SF spot.

Marvin has had that spot handed to him from season 2 (this is his 5th season in the league). And except for maybe one season and a few games here and there, I dont think he has earned the right to keep the starting spot just because of chemistry.

Stephen Jackson might create some chemistry problems early on, but is there any doubt that he would make the Hawks a more dangerous team (on and off the court lol).

bigdave,

The problem with JJ waiting so long to make his move, is sometimes the Hawks players end up in bad positions, not knowing whether he is going to pass or take the tough shot that he so often takes. And there have been numerous times when JJ’s attempted pass out of the double team gets picked off.

I would prefer if he makes the pass early, that way there is more time left on the shot clock, and with good ball movement, he could end up with the ball again (on the same possession), but in a better scoring position this time.

Rod from College Park

March 26th, 2010
2:25 pm

BirdDawg,

“Obviously you’re the one with limited basketball knowledge if that is your assessment of Marvin Williams. Raw talent means the physical tools necessary to be successful and regardless of the negative you could throw at Marvin he has better quickness, ball handling and shooting form than most of the guys in this league at his size.”

I don’t have basketball knowledge, but you are saying that raw talent has something to do with shooting form (LOL). I would venture to say that Marvin is probably one of the worst ball handling 3’s in the league. He rarely ever puts the ball on the floor, and rarely dribbles more than 3 or 4 times before he passes the ball. If you did have knowledge you would realize that he can’t change directions while dribbling. Josh handles the ball better than him at the 4. Quickness? What game are you watching. You need to gett you eyes checked. Shooting form has nothing to do with talent. Being 6′9 with a 7 foot wingspan does not have anything to do with talent either.

Rod from College Park

March 26th, 2010
2:26 pm

you should be your

Rod from College Park

March 26th, 2010
2:31 pm

O’Brien,

“Stephen Jackson might create some chemistry problems early on, but is there any doubt that he would make the Hawks a more dangerous team (on and off the court lol).”

No doubt. I really think if we could have added Jackson this year, we would be in the finals this year. Would have added another guy to defend Lebron as well as made him have to work on defense, and not leave his man. Imagine our lineup at the end of the game. Double teams would have been a thing of the past.

BPJ

March 26th, 2010
2:42 pm

Ilgauskas? (see 1:01pm)

bigdave

March 26th, 2010
2:43 pm

O’brien..

id credit that to floor spacing, either by design or just players being out of position including Joe. it doesnt help that Joe likes the ball on the wing more versus the middle of the floor. as of late our players have begun to open up and anticipate the ball. Joe is going to take tough shots, a given. you’re going to have turnovers. he’s not turning the ball over from double teams enough to call him liability. what i dont want to see is a lack of patience you’ll be expecting a double team that might not even come.

outside of a tough shot, Joe makes the right decision 9-10 with the ball, and for heavy critics 8-10. rather it being Bibby wide open.. or Marvin wide open, will they convert who knows.. im pleased with the Al/Josh option..

KevinA

March 26th, 2010
2:52 pm

Starting the game is one of those ego/tradition deals in the NBA. I will pine for games with more minutes for Teague, ZaZa and Evans regardless of who starts. JJ Al and Josh just need more bench time to keep fresh. I commend Woody for finally making the adjustment for Bibby minutes.

Did anyone else notice that when ZaZa was in the game, Howard guarded him witch allowed Al to get off his shots easier? I have noticed some of the bloggers are picking up on the fact that Al is much improved at hitting that 10′-15′ jumper. Another great option to get wide open shots. Howard has yet to move out to guard those shots as far as I could see. Even with ZaZa, we should run a couple of plays that give him wide open jumpers at least until Howard moves out to defend.

Can the guards go to what works more often?

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
3:13 pm

“Did anyone else notice that when ZaZa was in the game, Howard guarded him witch allowed Al to get off his shots easier? I have noticed some of the bloggers are picking up on the fact that Al is much improved at hitting that 10′-15′ jumper.”

KevinA Its not so much that Al can make 14 pts a game. Most power-forwards can do that and better. If he were good he would not need someone else to take the center off him so he can score. He should be able to create in the post regardless of who is guarding him. In-effect by saying Al plays better playing 10-15 ft from the basket, what you are saying by default is “Al is better when he is playing as a power forward and someone else is play center.”

Thats a no brainer. But note that Josh is a better powerforward than Al.

Now, can you tell me when Al is going to show much improve numbers at playing defense? Thats more of what I’m interested in. We have many guys who can score and we beat Orlando with Al having a very minimal impact offensively, and defensively.

So again my question is can you tell me when will Al make the top 5 list for block shots, or altering shots, or putting people on the seat of their pants? You know, things that centers do, like protecting the rim at crunch time.

DEFENSE WINS GAMES AND CHAMPIONSHIPS!

Mike is Back

March 26th, 2010
3:23 pm

darrell starks, I hear ya on Marvin…maybe expanding his range to three has added a steeper learning curve to his game. This is only his second season with this experiment…perhaps going back to the one thing he excelled before he started shooting three…could be a good place for him to focus on…like someone mentioned Marvin use to be automatic with the mid-range jump shot. That is the one constant I notice about Marvin…when has the jump shot going…he is a different guy.

Going to the second unit did wonders for JT in Dallas…I still love that cats from his days with the Hawks…maybe it could work for Marvin…as long as he got that Hawks jersey on…I will continue to root for Marvin regardless…that’s how I roll.

Melvin

March 26th, 2010
3:27 pm

Truth-Serum,

Just out of curiosity, please post some good defensive nimbers that you would like to see from Horford.

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
3:28 pm

BigDave . . . you understand what JJ is doing.

When JJ goes ISO . . it’s almost like he’s an option quarterback, reading the defense. If they double, he’s almost always passing the ball ( unless he’s shooting very well ). If they don’t double team, he’s taking it himself.

Part of the reason why we have a high offensive rating as a team ( tied for 3rd in the league with Cleveland ), is because we run a low-risk offense. We have good ballhandlers on this squad, combined with forwards who can lead a fast break if need be.

And JJ’s assist total is directly related most nights on how well Bibby and Marvin are shooting the ball when JJ swings it to them. If they’re missing shots, JJ will have a low assist total. If they’re making shots, his assist will tend to be over 6 per game.

And as much as JJ has control of the ball, you’d think his turnovers would be higher. But his 2.1 turnovers is a career low while in Atlanta, and currently ranks 48th amongst all players. If you go from a turnovers per 48 minute standpoint, he ranks 96th.

Turnovers aren’t the issue with JJ this year. He’s definitely making the right decision with the ball most of the time. If anything, maybe he should look to pass to Horford more. But that means that when JJ is probing the defense, Horford has to put himself in good position to receive a pass.

Give the other teams credit too though. When they go to double JJ, a lot of the time Josh Smith’s man is the one who comes to double. This leaves Smoove open on the perimeter. That’s a big reason why Smoove always seems to be open when JJ passes the ball.

WolfmanJack

March 26th, 2010
3:30 pm

Good News for Hawks Fans: The Hawks WILL win the NBA title either this June or next year in June. I’ll tell you why. The development of the Hawks players will be so dramatic that they will have more talent than anybody else. Let me explain. OK. The hawks placed two guys in the all-star game and deservedly so. Joe Johnson AND Al Horford made it, while Josh Smith and Jamal Craford missed the squad. (Both should have made the all-star team). So the Hawks have four guys on their roster (which is the assumption with most hawk fans) who have all-star talents. I agree. We already know that Joe Johnson will be a first-ballot hall of famer so we already know what his skill sets are. Josh Smith: if josh improves over the summer and shoots at least 10,000 jump shots per day, by the time the next season rolls around, Josh will be as good as LaBron James. Next, AL Horford. As I stated in my blog earlier, should Al Horford continue his progresion and get dramatically better, by the end of next season, “Big” Al should be as good as Wilt Chamberlain. Next up. Jamal Crawford. Jamal has scored 50 points about 5 times in his career, second only to Wilt Chamberland, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. If Jamal continues to improve at the rate he is going, he should be approximately as good as Jerry West by the end of next year. So there you have it folks. The Hawks roster by the end of next season should be lethal and very dangerous certainly capable of winning a title if they dont do it next year. In fact by the end of the nba season next year, I’ll go out on a limb to say the Hawks may be wrapping up their second consecutive world championship title. I’d say based on those predictions that the Hawks are certainly headed in the right direction. Woody is guiding the troops right into the Promised Land.

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
3:32 pm

Let me ask you this Truth-Serum.

Does a guy who get a lot of steals, means that he plays good defense?

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
3:36 pm

LMAO @ Wolfman. Great post.

Hahaha @ shooting 10,000 jumpers a day. That means that Josh has to jack up around 8 jumpers per second . . for 24 straight hours.

Let me adjust their player ratings on NBA Live 10 and NBA 2K10, so I can make that happen for all our guys.

gwite

March 26th, 2010
3:40 pm

BPJ, it’s been in the news. (Last I read), they are just ironing the details out, with Cleveland, on how long he(big stiff Z) will be signing for.

Good riddance. He was worthless before Lebron, and would be worthless without Lebron. He knows that. Anywhere else, he will be exposed to what he really is.

Legalized pot in action

March 26th, 2010
3:41 pm

“Big” Al should be as good as Wilt Chamberlain.”

“Joe Johnson will be a first-ballot hall of famer”

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
3:47 pm

And Horford’s defensive numbers have improved, with the latest 82games.com update. As of March 24th, he’s . . .

* holding opponents to 50.3% FG

* giving up 16.4 ppg per 48 minutes

* and opponents only have a PER of 16.5

Those updated numbers would now put him ahead of Andrew Bogut, and put him in the top 5 overall on defense at center.

bigdave

March 26th, 2010
4:05 pm

northcyde…

i like to think so.. but most would say im guilty of just being a pro Joe guy.. which i am.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
4:07 pm

Melvin, I appreciate the question. Its a fair one. I would like to see all make it to the top 5 in most categories of defense to be consider a “True” allstar and not one who was added by default because a vacancy opened up . I would also like to see Al improve defensively because defense wins championships ESPECIALLY IN TH LOW POST.

Here is a couple of obvious areas that aren’t unreasonable to expect for a center who prides himself on defense.

SHOT BLOCKS, I dont need him to be number 1 but get on the map, at least be top 7. Most of the year Al has hovered between 24th-25th, occasionally that number goes up when we play weak competition but for the most part hes in the mid 20’s out of 30 teams, WONT win a championship with that.
Right now hes number 29!

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Blocks.jsp?league=00&season=22009&conf=OVERALL&position=1&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=All%20Teams

When you click the link be sure to click C for center A for all and B for Blocks.

Id like to see a center defend to the post where there is less than a 50% chance he will be scored on by his opposition should his opposing number takes him to the rack. Right now there is a 52 percent chance that if Al’s man were to take he that he would score and that’s not counting how many “and1’s” are completed. By the way, he averages .39 blocks for every personal foul he commits. Id like to see those numbers swap.

Northcyde I think a better measuring stick would be his steals to turnover ratio, which is .53 steal for every turnover…..

Defense wins ball games.

KevinA

March 26th, 2010
4:13 pm

Truth-Serum

That particular comment was about offensive scoring and our lack of it against Orlando/Howard. Your comment that “Al is better when he is playing as a power forward and someone else is play center.” I agree with your assement. I think Al is as good or better Josh on the offensive end in a 1/2 court set though. The idea about having ZaZa and Al shoot those jumpers until Howard is forced to guard them is to open up the lane for the guards and the 4 spot.

I have never had a problem with upgrades on any of our players including getting Howard. I would trade Labron for JJ also. If you would cut a check to the Hawks for 25 million per year for 6 years and maybe we could get both. You would get a nice booth to watch the games out of to boot. Invite me and I will pick up the beer tab.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
4:15 pm

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
3:47 pm

Im not saying you are giving selective or partial information, im not even saying your data is unproven, fictitious, falsified misconstrued or creative at best. What I am saying is would you be so kind as to post a link, directly to your data and not just throw unsubstantiated stats and conclude them as admissible?

Where is your link to this data? Excuse me?

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
4:16 pm

KevinA

Cheers!

JeJe

March 26th, 2010
4:19 pm

Rod from CP, right on my brother.

LOL have u noticed that when Marvin dribbles, the ball goes up to his shoulders? Seriously, his back already sucks but he dribbles the ball almost up to his face LOL

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
4:25 pm

And Kevin I agree with your assessment of Al being better in a half court set from a 10-15 range set shot perspective.But Josh is clearly better in

Fast Breaks
Finishing
Assists
Blocks
Defense
steals
Al may compete for double double but Josh competes for triple doubles.
And a constant threat of the Alley-opp.
Josh is better in all around play.

2 times this year Josh has had numbers 15 pts, 10 (or more) 5 or more assists and 4 or more blocks. No one else in the NBA can say that. Al surely cant!

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
4:35 pm

*15 pts, 10 or more rbs, 5 or more assist and 4 or more blocks – point forward, Josh Smith!

KevinA

March 26th, 2010
5:02 pm

Truth-Serum,

I would like to see a ZaZa experiment playing 25 -30 minutes so we can exploit the 4 spot more. I like the hard ZaZa fouls. Use them up. Al and Josh being fresher at the end of games could only help.

Najeh Davenpoop

March 26th, 2010
5:06 pm

“Marvin has no identity”

Darrell hit it on the head. Marvin isn’t devoid of talent, like Rod says, nor is he incapable of improving, like many other people say. He’s the one guy among the starting 5 who doesn’t have a role. The coaching staff needs to focus on one or two things that he has the potential to do well, and get him to become a specialist at those things. What the Hawks could really use is for him to become a perimeter stopper and a 3-point specialist. He has the length, frame, and lateral quickness to be a lock down defender of the caliber of Trevor Ariza, and becoming a 40% 3-point shooter would be a matter of repetition and building confidence. This would take a TON of pressure off Joe Johnson, because then he wouldn’t be required to check the opposing team’s top scorer and he would have a lot more room to drive inside. The Hawks have enough scorers and enough passers to where Marvin really shouldn’t need to be doing either one. Get him to focus on a couple of things at which he can excel, and the whole team will improve as a result.

BirdDawg

March 26th, 2010
5:28 pm

Wow, it is REALLY easy to tell the difference between the basketball fans and the basketball players on this blog. Rod from College Park, you’re a great FAN. LMAO!!

BirdDawg

March 26th, 2010
5:39 pm

Najeh,

I agree with you. Others would have you believe that Marvin Williams is useless and has no talent. They probably said the same thing about Boris Diaw when he was here. Marvin could be incredibly effective if he becomes more aggressive and find his niche on this team. I like your comparison to Trevor Ariza because that is exactly the type of player that Marvin could be. He has shown it in flashes which is why I can’t understand why someone would say he has no talent.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
5:58 pm

Ditto on the Marvin needs a role! I like the way hes played over the last month and think clearly his best days are ahead of him. Tremendous upside.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
6:06 pm

KevinA Thats a temporary solution to a dogmatic concern. Im all for it. I like your approach. I am also clear that in order for us to contend for a championship ( we are not too far off) we have got to address this low post issue.

I agree that coaching or managing is making the best out of the resources available. I think we have a problem on the horizon when we do get that center that will command minutes in the paint. I see Josh as a point forward with all the bells and whistle and Al being a set shot with 10-15 ft range, athletic and mobile. A starter on most teams but…..but….Josh is considerably more complete with the sky as the limit for growth and a serious candidate for super-stardom…Jumpshot anyone?

JeJe

March 26th, 2010
6:17 pm

WHERE THE HELL IS THE UPDATE ON BELKIN IF HE PAID THE MONEY TO RETAIN OWNERSHIP RIGHTS?

AJC HAWKS WRITERS ARE A JOKE. GET IT TOGETHER

JeJe

March 26th, 2010
6:17 pm

Rod from CP, right on my brother.

LOL have u noticed that when Marvin dribbles, the ball goes up to his shoulders? Seriously, his back already sucks but he dribbles the ball almost up to his face LOL..

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
6:20 pm

KevinA , just a follow up;

there was a time when Zaza was the starter. In fact he was brought here to start. I do like his physical nature but he has no lifts and is slooooooooowww. When you put Al at the 4 and move Josh to the 3 it handicaps Josh’s game because he is a 4 and not the ball handler/shooter you want in your 3. But as a 4 there aren’t many as good as Josh. Which brings me back to my previous post…..we have a problem on the horizon.

KevinA

March 26th, 2010
6:22 pm

Truth-Serum,

Do you think we should get that center your talking about from next years draft? Like the Lakers it would be great to have a third center that can grow with time. Having ZaZa riding the bench would give us the depth needed incase of injury. How about that big kid from Kansas. Dropping Collins and Rando would happen.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
6:26 pm

BirdDawg Im co-signing with Rod on there is a clear difference between a fans very and a players view on this site and yes…you can tell.

lewis

March 26th, 2010
6:28 pm

its taken josh awhile to get this good, and he’s still not consistent. i like horford cause i know what im gonna get and its usually legit, he’s tougher mentally i think

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
6:32 pm

KevinA

Im thinking along the same lines except I think we need a proven center more than a project or an experiment. Look at what happened to the uconn draftee this year. Is he still in the remedial league? I saw that guy from Kansas and he looks good, but is he NBA ready? how long would it take? Lets say this team can stay in tack for 4-5 years and it takes 3-4 for the new center to be a force in the pro’s we may be in the rebuilding stages at that point. If hes ready for the pro game do it, but there are a few, about 5 guys not named howard or shaq who can help us if we have some super smart GM who can earn his millions and millions of dollars….

Najeh Davenpoop

March 26th, 2010
6:32 pm

NBADraft.net has the Hawks slated to pick around where 7′1″ Solomon Alabi from Florida State would be available. If you were really desperate to add a 7-foot shot blocker to the roster, I guess he would be an option.

I haven’t watched much college basketball this year, so I don’t know how good most of these prospects really are. History tells me that the odds of finding a 7 footer who can actually play after pick 15 are slim to none. I’d rather see the Hawks use their pick on a guy who will give them the most bang for the buck, regardless of his size or position. If you accumulate good players, you can then trade them for actual NBA players to fill needs. Not saying the Hawks couldn’t use a 7-foot shot-blocking banger, but using a mid-20s pick to address that need probably won’t pan out the way we hope.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
6:33 pm

I see im not the only one who uses other names to support a point.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
6:40 pm

Najeh Davenpoop I agree with the principle and draft strategy, however drafting “best athlete available” is why we have the problem at the forward position now. Too many power forwards and no true center. Why dont we be aggressive and move up in the draft? Make a trade and go after a true and established force. We are too close to sit on our hands and do nothing,except make token passes to big Z. Or wait around for a pie in the sky. Other GM’s know exactly what we need and are doing what they can to assure that we dont get it.

If we are wise enough to go after Crawford we are wise enough to pursue real talent at the 5. In the end of the day, I think we will address this in the draft. My hope is we trade into the lottery if necessary to find that talent. But of course as most of you would say, lets wait until the season is over.

KevinA

March 26th, 2010
6:41 pm

Truth-Serum,

Just for the sake of argument is there a center out there that we could sign and trade JJ for. Takes quality to get quality.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
6:41 pm

By the way

Najeh Davenpoop Whats the skinny on Solomon Alabi from Florida State

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
6:45 pm

Agree KevinA that it takes quality to get quality…We are not over stack with 2 guard that border superstardom and clutch shooting that kills other teams…our bread and butter, like just say’s but we are stacked at the forward position…..keep jj at all cost. If my option is JJ or the center we keep playing two power forwards in the starting line up and have the same problem.

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
6:48 pm

Truth, I’m telling you where I’m getting it from . . . 82games.com

You simply have to click on the Atlanta Hawks team link . . then click on Horford. Just about everything you need to know about him as a player, is in his player profile.

Scroll down his profile page until you get to the Opponent’s Production section. That’s where you’ll see what opposing centers do against Horford.

It’s all right there man.

KevinA

March 26th, 2010
6:50 pm

Truth-Serum, If we are wise enough to go after Crawford we are wise enough to pursue real talent at the 5. In the end of the day, I think we will address this in the draft. My hope is we trade into the lottery if necessary to find that talent. But of course as most of you would say, lets wait until the season is over.

I agree with you, I am willing to discuss anything to improve our team. I do think we need to sign Chills and JJ even it is to get a trade later. Same next year with Jamal. Sign and play or sign and trade. To me when Al makes 9 mil a year or more he becomes tradable. I love him now because of the bargain he is.

It is always talent vrs the money we have to pay. We won the Josh deal. A risk thought by some was well rewarded. Bibby we lost. Marvin we are losing but the future is still undecided.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
6:51 pm

You link actually has the hawks drafting another powerforward…gee just what we need.

13 – Ekpe Udoh
Baylor

* Birthday: 5/20/87
* NBA Position: Power Forward
* Class: Junior
* Ht: 6-10
* Wt: 240
* Hometown: Edmond, OK
* High School: Santa Fe
* Team Site Profile

JeJe

March 26th, 2010
6:51 pm

Why the hell would we get a center? Horford just made the ALL STAR TEAM and we just gave ZAZA 4 MORE YEARS

WAKE UP PEOPLE

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
6:58 pm

KevinA we agree on more than we disagree. I appreciate your being objective because I know Al is among your favorites and I like him too. Yes, Al is a good value for the money. Bibby is still a good value because he is serviceable at the 1 until we get some one better. He has 2 years left on his contract and I dont think the last year is guaranteed. He is still a very smart player regardless of his physical limitations. One big shot in the play offs will take that bitter taste out of your mouth. I think your reasoning is right on point. No argument here. Thanks for letting me know where you are on the future concerns. I see you arent just a nutt hugger but a very rational, insightful person.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
6:59 pm

northcyde so why dont you post a link to your statistic and not a link to a web site?

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
7:01 pm

This is for you Northcyde

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Blocks.jsp?league=00&season=22009&conf=OVERALL&position=1&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=All%20Teams

Perhaps you can follow suit.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
7:03 pm

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
3:32 pm

Let me ask you this Truth-Serum.
Does a guy who get a lot of steals, means that he plays good defense?

Northcyde I think a better measuring stick would be his steals to turnover ratio,
which is .53 steal for every turnover…..

Defense wins ball games.

drmaryb

March 26th, 2010
7:05 pm

Who’s My Grand-Daddy?

Hello Poppy! I bet you didn’t know I could do it like that? (spoken with my Spanish accent)

Here goes: I posted you up last night while you were watching Big-Red -vs- Big Blue and I copied to paste in this page:

“It was so bad with all the Spirit-Belkin In-Fighting.

The funniest part of the whole thing was that picture of BK refusing the Out-Stretched Hand of the ENEMY in the Court-House Lobby! LOL! Pure & Classic Day Time DRAMA! I became a Billy Fan that day!

Its nice to see how far we have come even though the DIVORCE is all but almost forgotten.
Shouldn’t the next Owner sign a Pre-Nuptual or something?

Were LUCKY Joe still wanted to come here? And it’s still not settled? If Joe leaves? That may be the reason.
I wish that David Last-Name?? Guy bought our team, but he was shafted by the Seller.”

Breaking News: today in the Business section in regards to my very comments, and I have no inside track, but the story just broke a few minutes ago at 645pm – so please read the article:

COURT OF APPEALS AWARD $281M to DUPED – BUYER of ATLANTA TEAMS
David McDavid awarded that money in a ruling. TNT Ted Turner ordered to pay the man.

Q: How will the affect the current ownership status of Spirit Group that bought the teams out from under David McDavid (FLA Car Dealership Tycoon), when he clearly had right of first refusal to not buy the teams. Hawks and Thrashers?

Are the teams still for sale, due to the Spirit Group in-fighting and all? How will this affect Joe Johnson desire to re-sign here. Or, as a professional due you just play basketball and not worry about who owns the team?

Blue-Ray & Others
Please free to jump in with an opinion. This is huge!
I can’t believe I was still thinking about all the old stuff last night, A walk down memory lane is all I was doing, trying to re-trace the steps of how we got Joe & Woody here in Atlanta, and why people on here are so eager to see those two leave us. We need the coach and the player!

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
7:07 pm

northcyde

March 26th, 2010
6:48 pm

Truth, I’m telling you where I’m getting it from . . . 82games.com

DONT TELL ME SHOW ME!

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
7:09 pm

drmaryb As I said yesterday. Ditto, good post. We need them both!

drmaryb

March 26th, 2010
7:10 pm

New Blog!

KevinA

March 26th, 2010
7:11 pm

Bibby is still a good value. Bibby is still a good value because he is serviceable at the 1 until we get some one better. One big shot in the play offs will take that bitter taste out of your mouth.

I can not knock Bibby except on defense. And I love the intangibles he brings. I just like them at a 20 min rate. As a human he is part of the glue that propels the Hawks. A man. Prob the best vet the Hawks have. Accepting his role gives nobody to many gripes about their roles.

Truth-Serum

March 26th, 2010
7:18 pm

Ditto, KevinA, Absolutely. I guess we are watching the same game.

KevinA

March 26th, 2010
7:29 pm

The Mr Bibby having a great impact. Fun to see.

WolfmanJack

March 29th, 2010
4:55 pm

Like I have mentioned before, the Hawks had a WONDERFUL opportunity to improve their team dramaticallly during the offseason by simply signing two former orlando players. Those two players would have solved ALL of the Hawks problems as I will outline in detail. The Hawks in my opinion all year have had only 5 problems. #1) Offensive becomes STALE after the Hawks build up a lead of 10-12 points or more. #2) The Hawks offense, in its stale state, shows no movement whatsoever and guys are waiting for Joe Johnson to put on a cape and fly through the air like superman to save the Hawks. #3) Two many BIGS continue to dribble the ball downcourt (inadvertently TURNING the ball over at crucial times); #4) Limited leadership at the point guard position as our guards get intimidated by traps and double teams and subsequently turn the ball over. #5) Too many letdowns and blown leads due to lack of enthusism to START games, to END quarters, and inability to CLOSE OUT OPPONENTS DOWN THE STRETCH.Ok. Did I leave anything out? Also, the offense the too predictable. Its stale. The two free agents (Turkelu and Alsten) would have helped the Hawks solve these glaring weaknesses and five tangible problems. Had the Hawks been smart enough to sign Heido Turkelu and Rafer Alsten, those two guys would have turned the Hawks into a dynasty. These two former Orlando players were playing on an all-star level last year. Those two guys helped the Orlando Magic to make it ALL THE WAY TO THE NBA FINALS. They would have helped the Hawks accomplish the same thing. Rafer Alsten could have started at the point, and it would have been easy to bring the rookie Teague along ever so slowly. If the offense ever stalled running it through Alsen, you could easily run the entire offense through Turkelu as well. Turkelu is one of the five most gifted talented players in the league. He has more upside potential than just about anyone. He has an enormous basketball IQ and he, along with Rafer, would have helped elevate the Hawks to elite status giving the Hawks a better regular season record than Cleveland. Should Cleveland win 65 games this year, had the Hawks acquired Alsten and Turkelu the Hawks would have won 70.
Hopefully the Hawks can acquire some good players to help the existing team so that we dont keep getting embarrased on the court.

Hawks squawks: Hawks 86, Magic 84

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Hawks squawks: Hawks 86, Magic 84

271 comments Add your comment

We’ve Moved!

About Atlanta Hawks

Search this blog

Recent Posts

Archives

More from the AJC

Local sports videos

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All AJC blogs »

Tell us what you think about the site

Subscribe »

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Advertising

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