Hawks Squawks: Hawks 119, Spurs 114 (OT)
– The playoffs have been a foregone conclusion for the Hawks for a while now so clinching is a bit anti-climatic. But, man, what a way to make it official.
– The Hawks came back from 14 down, the largest deficit they’ve overcome to win this season. “Fantastic,” Woody said of clinching. “We’ve still got a lot of work ahead of us. There’s still a lot of work to do before the playoffs. We’ve got to keep rolling. We’ll handle the playoffs once we get there.”
– The Hawks handled a Spurs team that wasn’t going to be an easy out no matter what the standings say. They have a history of winning in Philips. They are desperate to make the playoffs. Ginobili went for 38 and maybe 10 of those came with guys in his grill. Duncan had 29 and 13. The Spurs got calls. The Hawks started terribly.
– The Hawks still won because . . . well, because of pretty much everybody. J.J., Al Jamal and, I’ll be danged, Marvin all made winning plays–and I probably missed somebody.
– “We all play off of each other,” Jamal said. “Whoever is going good, we give it to him. There is no jealousy.”
– Jamal is going to the playoffs for the first time in his 10 pro seasons. “It’s unbelievable,” Jamal said. “I’ve waited a long time for this. I’m not taking this opportunity for granted.”
– The Hawks ended a seven-game losing streak to the Spurs. “It was good,” Bibby said. “We played hard. That’s been a top team and a top coach for years. We pulled it off. It’s a good win.”
– It was a good W. Give fans in Philips Arena an assist, too. They were hyped. It was fun.
– Give Horford credit. Duncan gave him all kinds of problems for most of the game but then Horford got even late– and I don’t just mean that big dunk on Duncan. He had 10 of his 18 rebounds in the fourth quarter and overtime, made a big jumper, had a big steal and made two clinching free throws.
– “Duncan frustrated Al early, then Al picked it up and hit his stride,” Woody said. “He had timely baskets and when we needed a rebound he was there.”
– Mo had the most luck against Ginobili. The guy is a real pro. He stays ready, likes to mix it up and will make shots.
– What the heck got into Marvin? Woody has been on him lately about deferring too often. “He needs to not take a backseat to his teammates,” Woody said before the game. “It’s not about calling plays. (Shoot), I played 11 years and I got one or two plays called for me.”
– Marvin seemed to get the message. He scored 18 points in the first half—more than he’d scored in eight straight games coming in. Richard Jefferson blocked his shot but Marvin got it back and dunked. He made a fastbreak layup despite George Hill banging into him. And he made that jump shot at the halftime buzzer.
– Hard to believe that Hawks team going toe-to-toe with the Spurs late was the same group that looked so lost at the start. “They came out and established themselves in the first quarter and we didn’t respond well,” Woody said. “In the second quarter, we picked it up.”
– The Hawks hung in there by playing some D. They played the Spurs even in the third and had an advantage in the fourth. The Spurs wouldn’t go away, using a 7-0 run to take a 94-93 lead. “They are always going to be there at the end,” Jamal said. “You just have to give yourself a chance.”
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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124 comments Add your comment
northcyde
March 22nd, 2010
10:57 am
Marvin was simply active last night, and made the best of his shot opportunities. Smoove and JJ did their jobs by getting the ball to him. Marvin converted at a high rate when he got scoring opportunities. The early jumpers he hit were huge for his confidence. And the 7 – 0 run he went on by himself in the 2nd quarter, literally got us back in the game.
When Woody says in reference to Marvin . . .
“It’s not about calling plays. (Shoot), I played 11 years and I got one or two plays called for me.”
. . . he simply means that the kid can and SHOULD affect a game, without having set plays called for him. Recently, you’re seeing Marvin starting to regain some of the “mojo” that he had last year. As much as people have been ragging on him recently, he’s had a pretty good month ( minus the Toronto game ).
Stats for March:
12.7 ppg
7.3 rebs ( which is the big stat for me )
50% FG ( which is the highest so far in a month this year )
84% FT ( 31 – 37 . . . which puts him on pace to attempt and make the most FTs in a month this year ).
2 years ago, Marvin was almost an automatic double figure scorer. He’s done that in 4 of the last 5 games.
Rebounding wise, he’d only had 2 double figure rebound games coming into March. This month, he’s had two 14 rebound games, and two 9 rebound games.
He’s becoming more active lately. And he’s doing it at the right time of year.
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2010
11:05 am
Great win by the Hawks. Phillips was rocking for the first time this season. It’s hard to believe, but I have to give Marvin credit for finally stepping up and playing like a professional small forward, agianst a quality team, last night. He also had a decent game against Charlotte. To all you Marvin lovers games like this are what make me realize why I bash Marvin so much. The game is a blueprint to how good teams will defend us in the playoffs. Marvin will be forced to knock down wide open jumpshots, or have to penetrate to score or kick. HE also will be forced to crash the boards, becuase the bigger front lines will give Josh and Horford all they want. Marvin is just as tall as Josh and Horford, and should try to become aggresive on the boards night in and night out. If he can only become a consistent threat, it makes our team 10 times better. Woodson and Joe said as much after the game. That being said, Marvin really needs to stay on his feet. When you are 6′9 you don’t want to continue to hit the hardwood that much. Too far to fall, and something is bound to break. Hoping that Marvin continues his aggressive play, and actually decides to contribute to this team, like the rest of the guys have been doing all season. As I always say, I won’t be holding my breath.
I MUS WRITE
March 22nd, 2010
11:06 am
Nimbers LOL, Kevin A u crazy dude ……. Al is a beast I love this guy’s heart. Kinda reminds me of the undersized Alonzo Mourning of the early 90’s -so intense with that never give up mentality.
Good game for Marvin,if he could only play this way on a regular basis.
2 things that I want for next year- A new HC, Woody has been better but its time. A Kaman like center to pair with smoove and Al….
MC im glad u stopped the AKA stuff theres hope for u yet lol…..
ant banks
March 22nd, 2010
11:06 am
do you all still want woody fired? CLYDE? KEN? ET AL?
woody is a good coach. the team is doin’ good. he is jus’ as good as mike brown and doc rivers, who were both on the choppin’ block. they were talkin’ about firin’ mike brown last year after they lost the east. conf. champ game.
please see detroit pistons for reference on firin’ coaches!!
northcyde
March 22nd, 2010
11:11 am
Hawk n the Ham
March 22nd, 2010
8:04 am
Made the trip in from Birmingham last night, and I’m glad I did! Awesome game, crowd was rocking, it was like a playoff game inside Phillips.
Marvin was BALLIN!!
The bench was the catalyst last night. When the 2nd team was on the floor, momentum changed. We made our run, and the 1st team picked up where the bench started for that big 2nd quarter run.
One note, I think Zaza leads the league in illegal screens, LOL
Good for you man!! It’s always nice to plan a road trip to see the Hawks, then see a great game, and be able to go home happy. On a side note . . . I know your former mayor is in jail ( LOL ), but he had a big idea of building a dome stadium in downtown Birmingham. Is that still going to happen, or is that idea pretty much dead?
I don’t know the politics and the economy in B-Ham, but a dome in downtown could literally transform that city. It could also lure the Jags away from Jacksonville and maybe entice Alabama and Auburn to play their annual game back in B-Ham. Plus maybe even hose an SEC title game every now and then . . along with being the home to UAB and to the Magic City Classic.
So I hope the “Alabama Dome” is still in the works, even though the mayor is in jail.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2010
11:19 am
Ant. . . they’ll always want him fired. Even if we get to the EC Finals, they’ll want him gone. The Hawks bad losses override good wins every time. Plus, Teague only played 4 minutes last night. That automatically makes Woody a bad coach in some people’s eyes.
Ken Strickland
March 22nd, 2010
11:24 am
After the Toronto loss there was no shortage of Marvin bashers who blamed him and him alone for the loss. I’ve noticed there hasn’t been a single comment from those bashers about his contributions to last nights win, especially MARVIN BASHER’S SAMUEL and ROD FROM CP.
While it certainly took him long enough, Woodson seems to have finally done what should have been done a long time ago. He finally got it through his stubborn, thick head that putting the team ahead of his personal issues, and limiting the mins of his beloved, inconsistent, NO D PG MBibby is in the best interest of the team overall. BETTER LATE THAN NEVER.
The team has been able to play more consistent DEF and make comebacks since Bibby’s mins have been limited and our frontline don’t have to contend consistently with his OPEN DOOR INTO THE LANE DEF POLICY throughout the gm. However, it seems obvious that Woodson hasn’t gotten it through his thick, stubborn head that teams will continue to be successful taking advantage of us swithching everything if he doesn’t wise up.
Ginobili had a field day exploiting mismatches with Horford, Zaza and Smoove, by backing them out and taking them off the dribble. And as usual, Woodson was too stupid to make a single adjustment to what they were doing so successfully. On the positive side, he did an excellent job of utilizing his bench, because we were a lot fresher during the OT than the Spurs, especially our frontline players. GOOD MOVE WOODY.
Bottomline, THE HAWKS WERE ABLE TO OVERCOME THE LACK OF STRATEGY AND ADJUSTMENTS AND PULLED OUT A DAMNED GOOD WIN.
Marcus
March 22nd, 2010
11:29 am
I MUS WRITE … did you peep the Center (Omar Samhan) from St. Mary’s College this weekend? Dude was ballin’ and jawin’ against ‘nova. Backed it up big time, too.
Between him and Varnardo (Miss. State), I would luv the Hawks to have one or the other on the 3×5 they hand to Stern on 2010 draft night. As fallback, wouldn’t mind ‘nova’s Scotty Reynolds. He and theother guys I like (FSU’s Alabi) will probably be gone by the time we pick. If we did roll the dice on Samhan, not 100% sure how he fits into our current scheme, esp. if JJ resigns. Where would Al move …. then where would Smoove move? Does Marvin become a “6th man” (only if JJ leaves and Crawford becomes the starting SG)?
KevinA
March 22nd, 2010
11:33 am
A few of us have asked for Al to get the ball more for almost 2 years. We are finally getting it. A few of us have not given up on Marvin. Since the All-Star break Marvin has played better, just in time for the playoffs. A few of us has asked for a reduction of Bibby minutes. This is happening. The extra minutes for Marvin and Evans just gives us better defense. I like the new look Hawks. We are showing we can win in different ways with different players. The sign of a team maturing and growing.
I want to give a shout to JJ for his 13 assists and passing much better out of double teams. A WTG to Jamal for his 5 assists. Win or lose we play our best passing the ball and playing team ball. I have done some griping about guard play in the past but while we are not perfect we are much improved. Give credit where credit is due. We are trending towards a tougher out come playoff time.
Rod from College Park
March 22nd, 2010
11:39 am
Ken Strickland,
Look again CLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do you clowns continue to feel like you have to congratulate someone for doing their job. Marvin has had maybe 5 to 8 decent games this year, and we are supposed to do cartwheels. If that is the case, you really look like an idiot because guess what, the Hawks are right where Woody said they would be at the beginning of the season. While your beef is with Woody and Bibby, I have much more confidence in Bibby to make a big shot in the playoffs than I do with Marvin. I guess the lack of strategy and adjustments helped them win 45 games already this season huh. Don’t put me in the Woody lover’s room either. Woodson has his flaws, and he is stubborn, but he has done what he is paid to do. Marvin and Bibby for the most part of the year have not. I guarantee you teams won’t leave Bibby wide open in the playoffs. Can’t say the same for Marvin.
KevinA
March 22nd, 2010
11:39 am
Will someone please tell ZaZa that you can’t move on a screen. This is not rocket science.
ChokeArtist
March 22nd, 2010
11:46 am
The Hawks did themselves proud last night against San Antonio. Even though the Spurs were shorthanded without Tony Parker, they battled the hawks to o.t. and had the upper hand in the closing minutes, with the Hawks having to scrap just to send it into o.t. Last night you saw the hawks play a game, which was in a playoff atmosphere and the hawks played tough and strong until the end. If they replicate that formula in the playoffs, the Hawks could make the eastern conference finals or even the nba finals for that matter. I know King James of the Cavs feels certain he will be crowned a champion this year, but it didnt happen last year and it may not happen this year. I BELIEVE THE HAWKS ARE AS GOOD AS ANYONE IN THE LEAGUE, INCLUDING THE LAKERS, CAVS, CELTICS, NUGGETS AND MAVERICKS. THOSE ARE THE ELITE TEAMS OF THE LEAGUE AND IM SURE THE HAWKS ARE IN THAT GROUP. The Hawks have 13 games remaining. Shoud the Hawks play out the string AND WIN THEM ALLL, finishing 13-0 they will put the nba on notice that they are not to be fooled with come playoff time.
wordy
March 22nd, 2010
11:55 am
nice win. At the very least they should finish 9-4 for the remainder.54 wins
Phillips better be crazy on Wed.
Marcus
March 22nd, 2010
12:00 pm
what am I thinking? My bust. Varnardo and/or Samhan would be drafted for quality depth for current starters. Smoove and Horfy go stay at the 4 and 5.
Westurd
March 22nd, 2010
12:09 pm
game ball goes to the FANS!!! Fun game to be at from the opening wistle (well, minus the first quater). Great Crowd
The Truth
March 22nd, 2010
12:13 pm
It is a pleasure to read this blog after a satisfying win like last night. Some of you defiant bloggers are demonstrating that you are indeed an objective thinker and are not completely inflexible about harden past opinions. If we getaway from pushing personal agendas, we might take this blogging game to a whole new level. As always, I enjoy reading most of the comments posted about our Hawks, it could get even better with less bias rhetoric and more objectivity.
GeeMack
March 22nd, 2010
12:14 pm
It’s was snowing in March in the ATL today. I see why Ken Strickland gave Woody a compliment after calling him some other unflattering names. Lol.
Strickland I agree, Manu was exploiting the swithching D like crazy last night. During those times the emphasis should be on a strong showing and fighting through the pick.
wordy
March 22nd, 2010
12:17 pm
westurd- prolly need a pg unless teague all the sudden becomes awesome.
KevinA
March 22nd, 2010
12:18 pm
So, what
March 21st, 2010
9:35 pm
All Joking aside ray, do you think Marvin has reached his peak?
Big Ray
March 21st, 2010
9:41 pm
So what ,
Yes, I do. I think Marvin is a role player who can provide what he did the last two years: 13-14 ppg and 5-6 rpg. I used to think he had more potential, but much of it starts from the neck up, and he just doesn’t have the mentality. That, and while athletic, he’s not the kind who will ever use his body as efficiently as guys like Gerald Wallace.
Ray,
I still look for more upside in Marvin. How effective he can become may depend on wether we ever get a good facilitating PG. A facilitating PF would help Marvin the most. Even now if they really wanted to the Hawks could look for Marvin more on plays that has him cutting towards the basket.
Like any player, when he is involved on the offensive end it seems to translate to better rebounding and defense. Our team is evolving (mainly because of Josh and Al) into a better passing team. I think this helps Marvin the most.
Because of the make up of our team I agree with your 13-14 ppg in the future but not because of Marvin’s limits. It will have more to do with Josh, Al, Jamal and JJ needing the ball. I agree with your assement compareing Marvin with Wallace. That is a pretty high bar. Peaked is just not the word I would use for Marvin. I believe more efficient offense, better defense and better rebounding days are ahead.
wordy
March 22nd, 2010
12:18 pm
i meant marcus
AtlSouthside
March 22nd, 2010
12:32 pm
Marv Williams & Josh Smith are playing like they’re suppose to, and the timing could not be better for the Hawks. I say keep Marv next year, but bring him off the bench… he’s a keeper, maybe not a starter…unless Joe leaves
Question for MC: Do you see Atlanta keeping both Joe Johnson & Jamal Crawford? If Joe signs in the summer, do you think ASG will go ahead and try to lock up Jamal Crawford up too?
O'Brien
March 22nd, 2010
12:35 pm
Rod from CP,
To be fair to Marvin, he exceeded expectations last night. If he can give us 13 and 8 while shooting .45%, that would be good for the Hawks. But last night, dude deliverd 26 and 9, against the Spurs no less. That was a great game for Marvin. Maybe Woody needs to talk to Marvin every couple games or so to remind him to stay aggressive.
Ken S,
Give Rod from CP credit. Although he isn’t doing cartwheels over it, he did acknowledge Marvin’s performance last night.
Agreed on the props to Woody too. He has done a much better job recently of limiting Bibby’s minutes (if he is not making shots). And Woody has also been playing his bench more in the first half of games.
I think if Woody had been doing these 2 things all season, the Hawks would have a better record than they do now.
But he needs to make adjustments to the switching defense. Smoove ended up on Manu on multiple occasions, and he also ended up on RJ. The Bobcats exploited the switching defense, and Felton’s shot in OT over Smoove could have been the game winner.
Woody needs to realize when the switching defense is not working, and get the players to adjust.
And can Woody tell Josh Smith that he shoots too many jumpers.
Hoops
March 22nd, 2010
12:36 pm
A comment on the switching man to man defense. You switch if the switch does not cause a mis-match. If there is a post player involved in the screen, then call “Screen Post”. The player that is being screened now knows that a post player is setting the screen and we are not going to switch. Just hedge and stay with your man. JMO.
Great game Hawks!
JustChillFans
March 22nd, 2010
12:44 pm
Can everyone please NOT tell smoove to work on his jumper in the summer because once he gets his shot down, then he’s going to take more. Can everyone just tell him to work on his lost post game and to play all-out every single play because he plays lazy and sloppy at times.
lewis
March 22nd, 2010
12:54 pm
Yeah, Josh Smith is one of the few guys in the NBA who gets 11 mill a year for often times leisurely strolling down the court while older guys who make less run right by. Sometimes I love him, sometimes I hate him.
Who else is excited for tonight’s game?
Grandad
March 22nd, 2010
1:26 pm
You guys nitpicking @ Josh are ‘nuts’!
ChokeArtist
March 22nd, 2010
1:34 pm
I dont know what anyone thinks about the Hawks, but I think the Hawks, if they want to regularly get replays run on ESPN need to show the league they are worthy of having their highlites run on ESPN. ESPN never show any of the Hawks highlites because the Hawks have been kind of boring prior to this season. The folks who see the Hawks all the time at Phillips arena know otherwise and they know the Hawks create spectacular highlights made at the Highlight Factory all the time. Like I said before, what I think the Hawks need to do right now is #1) get focused and then #2) win out the remainding ball games irregardless of who is on the schedule. I realize the Cavs are on the schedule twice, with the Lakers and Magic being there as well. The Hawks can beat them all and it will be a good tuneup for the playoffs. WIN OUT AND SHOW THE LEAGUE WHAT YOU ARE MADE OF. THE HAWKS ARE CAPABLE OF MAKING 14-GAME RUN TO CLOSE OUT A SPECTACULAR SEASON, IF YOU INCLUDE THE SAN ANTONIO WIN LAST NIGHT. WIN THE REMAINDING GAMES AND I THINK THE LEAGUE WILL HALT ITS LACK OF RESPECT TOWARDS YOU.
lewis
March 22nd, 2010
1:37 pm
I just watched ESPN for an hour waiting for the Hawks highlight and all I saw was Al Horford’s dunk over Duncan at #7 on the top ten plays. Lame.
Clyde
March 22nd, 2010
1:45 pm
Hawk in the Ham I’m from Birmingham. I remember when we had a football team the Birmingham Fire playing at Legion Field. Birmingham is a great city that is very underdeveloped. I dome be good for the city but who would play in it.
B’ham has one major problem and thats the drug trade. When greedy politicians and crooked cops allow illegal activity to fatten their pockets ain’t nothing you can do but pray. Atlanta became a major city when it brought in sports teams and built an airport. The leaders of B’ham need to develop a concrete vision for economic development and quit being drivin’ by greed.
As for the Hawks that was one of the best games I seen the play all year. We need to save some of that energy for the playoffs though.
And what do you know. A Samuel sighting. I haven’t seen a Woody=COY in a while.
FIRE WOODY
newkid
March 22nd, 2010
1:46 pm
If the ‘body of work we saw from Marvin last night comes close to duplication in the playoffs, and we consistently get the contributions we’ve come to expect from the other cats, we’ll represent the Eastern Conference for the O’Brien trophy this year. Last night should be the ‘new’ low bar for employee #24, and Woody should expect nothing less from him going forward.
Who amongst you would take a flyer during summer ‘10 on a 25 year-old 7′1″ 260 lbs center who hasn’t yet played remotely close to his potential, but might be worth half of the MLE? If Haywood decides to re-sign with Dallas (or elsewhere), Z decides to re-sign with Cleveland (or elsewhere), and we aren’t successful drafting a center capable of immediate contributions, would it be worthwhile to pursue Darko @ ~$3M per annum on a 2-year ‘make good’ deal? Might he be a ‘late bloomer’ and ripe now for combining with Al and Josh in a Hawks front court, allowing the ‘new’ Marvin to come off the bench with JCross and JQuick next year?
JeJe
March 22nd, 2010
1:48 pm
Great answer northcyde. Do teams get screwed into having low payrolls because they couldn’t retain FA’s?
Had a group meeting with Bruce Levenson before the game and he pretty much said we will NOT overpay for JJ this offseason because he’d be 35 in the 6th year of his contract. He referenced to KG, who is 34, and has 40M left over 2 years, as someone who has regressed tremendously and may mess up Boston’s payroll
JeJe
March 22nd, 2010
2:04 pm
What the hell was up with our P&R defense last night? How do we double team Ginobili/Hill and let Duncan get wide-open dunks when NO ONE SHIFTS OVER TO HELP?
Horford seems like he does not want to play defense out there. His man defense is pretty abysmal. Smoove’s man defense is okay — he alters shots
Patrick
March 22nd, 2010
2:06 pm
I wonder if Josh was getting frustrated by the Spurs interior defense last night, prompting him to hoist a bunch of horrible jumpers. I haven’t seen him play a game that passively on offense since last year probably.
Clyde
March 22nd, 2010
2:11 pm
Lorenzen Wright > Horford on defense
KevinA
March 22nd, 2010
2:12 pm
ChokeArtist,
I would bet cash the Hawks get more prime time TV next year. Like Woody, they adjust slowly but surely.
KevinA
March 22nd, 2010
2:13 pm
Clyde,
meth?
CoreyWilson
March 22nd, 2010
2:17 pm
FOLKS, WHAT DID YOU THINK OF EMPLOYEE #24 LAST NIGHT. HE LED THE HAWKS IN SCORING FOR PROBABLY THE FIRST TIME IN HIS CAREER. Marvin needs to keep this up if he wants to stay in the starting lineup. I tell you what, during this offseason, if Marvin and Josh both work on their jumpshots and they both return to camp next year making perimeter jumpers, the Hawks will be lethal and will elevate to the next level. Al Horford should be proud of his performance against S.A. last night. Al outplayed Tim Duncan on the block and truthfully that is virtually impossible to do. Al did it and made it look impressively easy, dominating the future hall of famer Duncan.
KevinA
March 22nd, 2010
2:18 pm
Sekou weighs in on Al
http://my.nba.com/cms/113528/bigger_isnt_always_better?ls=iref:nbahpt1
KevinA
March 22nd, 2010
2:20 pm
CoreyWilson,
I think the bigger picture is less minutes for Bibby. Not wether Marvin or Evans starts. they both do a better job on defense. I like Evans playing more.
GeeMack
March 22nd, 2010
2:22 pm
ChokeArtist
Nice dream, but very unrealistic! I think a 10-3 finish will mean a very good tune up for the playoffs.
newkid
March 22nd, 2010
2:37 pm
@KevinA: What I think Sekou misses is that the player functioning in the low post on offense doesn’t necessarily need to be a center. No reason Horford shouldn’t be relied upon to operate in the post on the offensive end of the floor. With the proper ‘center’ to play against opposing teams’ pivot men, a center who can/will step out on the floor and make mid- and long-range jumpers, we vacant the post for cats like Al and Josh to continue to operate INSIDE as they do currently. That’s why someone like Z would have been perfect here; he doesn’t need/want to hog the low post on offense. And maybe (just maybe at this point) that could be a reason a Darko type would be worth considering for next year.
KevinA
March 22nd, 2010
2:38 pm
Our ending record depends if we have a chance to win the 3rd seed. That depends on what Boston does. The last three games and wether we play our starters and go for wins depends on the situation. I look for us to be agressive and play the starters as long as we have a chance.
Grandad
March 22nd, 2010
2:39 pm
Goodness gracious sakes alive people:
Samham, Darko, – c’mon people!
Al lazy on defense ’cause he can’t guard Manu @ 23 ft. from rim?
What was really funny was poor Zaza trying to defend Manu from 23 ft.
Switching defense = [Wdsn = COY]. Zaza on Manu, now that’s funny!
JeJe: NOT SHOUTING…JUST DRAWING ATTN.
IF WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE THEN ASG’s LOGIC IS FLAWED.
ANY TEAM HAS A WINDOW AND OURS IS NOW, TODAY, NEXT YR., YR. AFTER!
WE CANNOT WORRY ABOUT JOE’S LAST YR.
WE MUST USE EVERY RESOURCE TO RE-SIGN HIM, NOW.
WE DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO DUPLICATE HIS PRODUCTION!
ARE WE A BETTER TEAM W/O JOE & REPLACING HIM WITH SAY,’ROGER MASON’?
IF THE ASG TRULY SAID THAT: THEY SHOULD BE tarred & feathered !
THEY WOULD BE TELLING US THEY ARE TOO CHEAP TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP.
THEY WOULD BE – ROBERT SARVER/PHOENIX.
I could go on & on but I’m out of gas.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2010
2:40 pm
JeJe
March 22nd, 2010
1:48 pm
Great answer northcyde. Do teams get screwed into having low payrolls because they couldn’t retain FA’s?
I think teams screw themselves into having lower payrolls, because they WOULDN’T retain Free Agents.
********************
Had a group meeting with Bruce Levenson before the game and he pretty much said we will NOT overpay for JJ this offseason because he’d be 35 in the 6th year of his contract. He referenced to KG, who is 34, and has 40M left over 2 years, as someone who has regressed tremendously and may mess up Boston’s payroll
Easy for Bruce to say that NOW, seeing that the playoffs haven’t started yet. But everything may change if we get to the EC Finals, and especially if we get to the NBA Finals . . and JJ is a huge reason why that happens.
Anybody worried about what JJ will be making at age 34 in this deal, isn’t looking at the right thing. JJ is getting paid for what he is worth NOW, not what he’ll be worth 6 years for now. If our “window of opportunity” for making a big time run at a title is say . . 3 or 4 years . . then that’s when we’ll need JJ to play his best ball during the contract.
By the time we get to year 5 and year 6, JJ may actually be easy to trade, seeing that it’ll be a huge chunk of salary we could deal, to reduce payroll. A big money team in contention may still trade for a less effective, but still skilled JJ, as a piece that could put them over the top as a championship team.
But here’s the reality that Bruce, you, me, and everyone else needs to keep in mind. Championships cost money. These are the top 10 team payrolls in the league.
1) LA Lakers – 91.4 million
2) Dallas – 86.9 million
3) Boston – 85.4 million
4) NY Knicks – 84.9 million
5) Cleveland – 83.5 million
6) Orlando – 82.1 million
7) San Antonio – 78.9 million
8] Utah – 74.9 million
9) Denver – 74.9 million
10) Phoenix- 74.8 million
22) Atlanta – 65.9 million
The fact is in this league, you have to “pay to play”, if you’re serious about winning an NBA Title. All-Star players win you titles in this league. The reality is that the 2010 Hawks may not win a title this year, but possibly could within the next 2 – 3 years . . IF . . they kept the current core together, and maybe added another key role player or two.
So if the Hawks are SERIOUS about winning a championship, they’re going to have to pay to retain JJ. He’s a major talent in this league. A top 15 – 20 talent. As the T-Wolves if it’s easy to replace a big time talent, even when you have young talent developing.
Grandad
March 22nd, 2010
2:51 pm
Dang northcyde, ‘way to go’!
terrell
March 22nd, 2010
2:52 pm
Lewis, you have to watch Gametime on NBA TV ,to see Hawks highlights. ESPN only shows Kobe, Lebon, DWade, Dwight, etc… That’s a da.. shame.
northcyde
March 22nd, 2010
2:59 pm
As for KG’s contract, he’s a perfect example. The Celtics could care less if they have to pay KG another 40 million, because the move already paid HUGE DIVIDENDS in the form of an NBA Championship. They don’t win a title without the KG move, and they still had to depend on the very good, but very inconsistent Al Jefferson to get the job done.
Vince Carter is a good example as well. Orlando needed a guy who could create his own shot on nights where the 3 point bombs aren’t falling, and on those nights in which Howard isn’t effective. This will be Vince’s job in the playoffs. They were more than willing to give up re-signing Hedo and retaining Courtney Lee, so that they could acquire a playoff vet like Vince.
The owners who have very good teams, but are deftly worried about paying their own stars, will end up like the Phoenix Suns. A good playoff caliber team, but not willing to do what it takes to win a title. Sure, they traded for Shaq. But in a deal like that, you still want to retain Shawn Marion ( a borderline all-star caliber player at the time ), and add Shaq to the mix. Not give up Marion. That’s why the Shaq move didn’t work.
Instead of trading expiring contracts of mediocre players for star players, they traded their star contracts for star players. The “smart” teams in this league don’t do that, when they’re trying to build a title contender.
- Lakers traded draft picks and peanuts for Pau Gasol
- Celtics traded their inconsistent youth talent for KG and Ray Allen ( but kept Pierce and Rondo )
- Orlando traded their nice young 2-guard ( Courtney Lee ) and expiring contracts for an aging, but still very skilled Vince Carter
- Dallas traded their young nice PG ( Devin Harris ) for a Hall of fame PG ( Jason Kidd ), and this year traded an expiring Josh Howard for Caron Butler ( still owed 10 million after this year )
- Cleveland traded scraps to obtain Shaq, and then Antoine Jamison . . and still will get to retain Big Z
- Even us with the acquisition of Jamal Crawford, we only gave up Speedy and Acie
That’s what the good teams who are SERIOUS about winning titles do. They’re not letting their major talent go, simply out of fear of overpaying them. Those squads would rather overpay their stars, than their mediocre guys.
Section 303
March 22nd, 2010
2:59 pm
Grandad, I agree. Picking at Josh Smith is crazy! I think a strong case can be made that he is team MVP. His defense is amazing and he has improved beyond my wildest dreams on offense.
I think people are getting a little carried away with this “Josh Smith can’t shoot jumpers” crap. He can shoot them, just not as often as he used to in years past. If he shoots 3-4 jumpers a game, I really do not have a problem with it. He does make some, by the way. Plus, he’s earned. The guy busts his a$$. If the trade off is that he gets to take about 3 jumpers a game, then that’s fine with me.
Tough game tonight. Road game at Bucks, after the great game last night. I’m not sure I am expecting a win tonight. The back-to-back might simply be too much to overcome. And, Bucks will be gunning for Hawks.
KevinA
March 22nd, 2010
2:59 pm
northcyde,
Let me first say JJ is an All-star. But unless you can prove to me that our owners are willing to go into the cap I would say a sign and trade with JJ is our only way out. Have to get something for something. Same with Chills – we cannot throw away draft picks with nothing in return. There many good PG’s in the league and more coming in the draft. Regardless of position I would consider any trade that gives us cheap young talent.
PS – give us a rich owner. The decisions would be much easier.
But really we need to enjoy the Hawks now as composed. 13 games and the playoff to come. These are the good times.
Grandad
March 22nd, 2010
3:15 pm
Patrick – you ever thought the young man [Josh] could be tired.
Bobby Cox – wiley vet – gives players a day off on occasion.
We’ve reached that point, Josh plays his hiney off every night.
His tank may be a little low.
newkid – I agree, to a point. ‘Z’ would have been a great fit
due to his skill set. What Al needs is a ’sidekick’.
Not necessarily someone to start @ the [5].
Just someone he can tag out with, when need be.
Certain Bigs give him fits defensively. [total mismatch]
I once thought we needed a shot blocker to be his relief pitcher.
Now, I’m thinking, maybe a stretch [5]. (’Z') Would fit the bill.
Once again, not to start, but to tag team [sidekick] with.
Troy Murphy [bad contract] comes to mind. Would ASG bite the bullet
for one yr., Murphy’s on the last yr., to make us better.
It’s like ‘nothcyde’ said: “you gotta spend to win”.
CoreyWilson – Marv has led in scoring quite a # of times in his
young career. Usually when Joe has been hurt.