Hawks Squawks: Hawks 108, Nets 84
East Rutherford, N.J.–This was a real professional effort by the Hawks, who never let the Nets back in it after taking control in the second quarter. And they did it without J.J..
– “It feels good,” Jamal said. “They are down but you can’t take anyone lightly. We are getting better at not giving teams a chance to put together a run and come back.”
– OK, so it was the Nets, who could end up historically bad. But these are the Hawks, who less than a week ago messed around with the Wizards and lost to Golden State’s skeleton squad not too long ago. Now they’ve looked sharp while beating down inferior opponents in the last two games.
– “There are no ‘gimmies’ in this league,” Woody said. “We’ve had games like this where we came out on the other end. I thought our guys came out focused.”
– The Hawks were a bit sluggish from the jump. It reminded me of the game in Washington: a low-energy start in front of a sparse, downtrodden crowd. I’m starting to think the Hawks just don’t come out with good energy under those circumstances. I know I don’t.
– But then the Hawks dominated the second quarter by getting the tempo more to their liking. They got off and running by getting 18 rebounds to New Jersey’s seven. The Hawks made 13 of 24 shots to 5 of 20 for the Nets.
– Jamal made a 29-foot 3-pointer at the halftime buzzer. “I told Mike if he gave it to me, I’d make it for him,” Crawford said. Jamal went for 15 of his 25 points in the period.
– Shaky first start for Teague. The rook’ was out of sorts early, dribbling off his leg at one point. He rushed shots, missing a couple of them ugly. The Hawks played faster when Jamal and Bibby were out there.
–”We kept asking him before the game if he was nervous, and he was saying, ‘I’m good,’ but he was nervous,” Smoove said. “Naw, he did pretty good. He’s just got to get some minutes and get a feel for the game.”
– Teague’s assessment: “So-so. OK. Not too bad. It felt a little different at first. I was a little nervous because I didn’t want to mess up and everyone would be like, ‘Look at that rookie out there, he’s terrible.’”
– Woody didn’t think his rookie was that bad. “He was OK,” Woody said. “Probably a little nervous. He played pretty good. He’s got to work to get better and he will get better. We’ll push him. He played pretty well considering he’s not played a lot of minutes. Not by any measure am I disappointed in his play.”
– Horford had a career-high seven assists a game after Smoove set his career high with 11 dimes. “I’m constantly telling my ‘bigs’ in practice when they handle the ball they’ve got to make good decisions,” Woody said.
– Joe Smith played in his 1,000th game. “It don’t feel like the Day One, I can tell you that,” he said. “It feels good to be able to do this for so long.” I had to remind Joe he’s still a young man in real world terms.
– The game got testy when Terrence Williams hammered Mo Evans in the final seconds. Mo said Nets players told him they were upset because he was trying to score with the shot clock off. He said he thought there was more time.
– He wasn’t happy with the flagrant foul. “Don’t act like you’ve got all this pride when you are (7-60), you know what I’m saying?” Mo said. “If y’all have got a no-layup rule, then you wouldn’t be in this predicament. You’ve been getting disrespected all year. To his credit, (Williams) came up and apologized.”
– Mo also noted that he got called for a flagrant on T-Will in an earlier meeting. But he said he was going for the ball on that play while Williams just grabbed him.
– Man, do I miss T-Will at the Ville.
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
100 comments Add your comment
Reggie
March 16th, 2010
11:31 pm
Umm……first?
BrittishAnger
March 16th, 2010
11:33 pm
Primero
Teague’s shakiness is proof he needs more minutes to develop. Don’t fault the rook’ for the first start jitters, he should have had this moment much earlier in the season but didn’t (Bibby’s game out where Mo Evans started). Look forward to the second one tomorrow….GO HAWKS!
Patrick
March 16th, 2010
11:33 pm
Way to take out the trash.
BrittishAnger
March 16th, 2010
11:33 pm
BELGIUM…SEGUNDO….
JeJe
March 16th, 2010
11:40 pm
FIRE WOODY
theZaZaGuy
March 16th, 2010
11:53 pm
Even though it was an easy win, this game was fun to watch. Did anyone hear the crowd when Jamal did the tricky dribble?
RLP
March 16th, 2010
11:54 pm
the Hawks have won one more game on the road than all of last year.They have 16 games remaining. Eight on the road and eight at home. They have a chance to finish at .500 on the road. They have a chance to finish one spot higher in the the division than they did last year. They have a chance to improve on their won-lost record in each of the last five years. I know that there are those who re not satisfied with seeing incremental improvement from one year to another. This team probably will not finish with a franchise record in total wins for a team. But they still have that chance. For all of the naysayers out there this team, this coaching staff, this ownership group have provided the team’s fans with something we should be proud of – a team that is giving us a fighting chance when resources are limited and fans who lack patience. I, for one, am proud to be a fan of this team this year.
Grandad
March 16th, 2010
11:59 pm
Only watched 1st half:
Bibby played [1] on offense.
It’s like someone said the other day;
“Jeff, son you go stand on the side and watch”.
Defensively, he picked up 2 quick ones and went to the bench.
Like I said, I did’t see the 2nd half.
I would like to see him get some consistent min.
and see if he can relax, and blend in with 1st team
in order to get used to playing @ their speed.
I was even concerned about his conditioning, as he has not
played in games where there was any urgency. It is hard to
simulate those types of game conditions in practice.
No excuses, but he seems to have lost some confidence.
Someone said Wdsn is off the Larry Brown coaching tree,
true, but don’t forget he also came from the Bob Knight
school as well. Not a criticism of Wdsn.
Only an obsrvation, as it relates to young Mr. teague.
Big Ray
March 17th, 2010
12:03 am
Northcyde ,
Count me among the choir with that sermon.
I never said or even believed that Teague was ready to take over at point guard. I’ve only wanted to see him play more than 9 mpg. Maybe as much as 16-18 mpg. I’ve quoted Woody many times where he has said that he felt no need to throw Teague to the Wolves, and that he thought Teague would take over the team in time . Nothing more, nothing less. Yeah, there have been people who wanted Teauge to start and play 35 mpg, while Bibby was crucified and burned at the stake. You’ll always have those types of reactions. I think anybody with common sense knows better. Then again…
I agree that Teague did not play well in this game. Nothing more can be said about it. What I do know is that Woody has publicly supported the kid, and so have his teammates. I’m glad to see that, and mentioned it FREQUENTLY during training camp, preseason, and regular season.
Big Ray
March 17th, 2010
12:05 am
Astro Joe ,
I don’t think Teague loses confidence nearly as much as people want to say he does. And I don’t think Woody is destroying his confidence, either. At the same time, I think his quotes aren’t those of a person who doesn’t care, but rather a guy who gets over stuff. If Teague says he isn’t worried about something, it’s probably for the sake of getting the point across that he’s not going to dwell in misery on a bad performance.
Remember what he said after going 0 for 11 or 0 for 15 in a game much earlier this season? “You won’t see that happen again.”
I agree with you. He’ll be fine.
Big Ray
March 17th, 2010
12:11 am
Here we have it again, straight from the horse’s mouth:
Woody didn’t think his rookie was that bad. “He was OK,” Woody said. “Probably a little nervous. He played pretty good. He’s got to work to get better and he will get better. We’ll push him. He played pretty well considering he’s not played a lot of minutes. Not by any measure am I disappointed in his play.”
Sounds to me like Woody is trying to take care of a guy who he thinks can actually play. Will Woody probably say after the season is over (playoffs and all) that he maybe should have played Teague more? Yeah, he might. But he will also say that he feels justified, especially if this squad cranks out 50-something wins. And it will be hard to argue with that.
I don’t like everything Woody does, but I’ve got to give credit where credit is due. We can talk all day about the Acie Laws, Royal Iveys, and Salim Stoudamires. But Teague has Woody’s endorsement in ways they never did. This just isn’t the same situation as we’ve seen before.
tony
March 17th, 2010
12:12 am
tournament this weekend to benefit and bring awareness to homeless problem in Atlanta. Maybe a few Hawks fans can support. http://www.hoopin4homeless.com. cash prize for winning team. go hawks!
cp
March 17th, 2010
12:17 am
Whats funny about the biggest Teague critics on here is like they expect the kid to come in and put up big numbers although he has played inconsistent minutes the whole year. It was his fist start and he was obviously nervous. Like he said himself, he was trying too hard not to mess up. Its crazy how some guys come on here and come with the nanny nanny boo boo I told you stuff crap. Its like some were just waiting for the kid to fail… I think he will be alright. Everything I have read about him suggest he has a strong work ethic and is willing to learn. The kid is going to be alright he is still kind of raw…….Good win.
Big Ray
March 17th, 2010
12:20 am
CP ,
Agreed completely. Tried to tell somebody else that, and he wanted to try and rip me for suggesting that people think of Teague that way. Talk about not paying attention.
I was glad to see us not only win, but blow them out like, regardless of whether JJ was there.
Ramon
March 17th, 2010
12:34 am
Big Ray, I was glad to see the Hawks got a blow away win without JJ also. I think though its obvious that the Hawks NEED to re-sign JJ this off season. But on the good side, I hope JJ’s camp sees that the Hawks still have plenty of talent without JJ.
cp
March 17th, 2010
12:40 am
Yea Big Ray its crazy on here when it comes to the rookie. I think he’s going to be fine. You can see the talent he just has to get the minutes.
The Truth
March 17th, 2010
1:04 am
Contrary to the hype, from what I saw, Teague did not play the PG. He played the SG and Bibby mostly played the PG during the beginning. If Teague looked lost, well he probably should be. That is not his natural position. While Teague is getting the blame for his poor performance, there is more to this story than what is being reported. Actually, I thought his aggressive defense was good. Of course he hasn’t learned how to pace his self as a starter perhaps to explain his aggressiveness in drawing early fouls. His shot looks ugly because his shots are not falling. When those shots start to fall, they won’t look so ugly. Talk about ugly shot, what about Childress?
Big Ray
March 17th, 2010
1:09 am
Agreed, Truth
northcyde
March 17th, 2010
1:32 am
I didn’t expect him to have a great game. I expected your average Teague-like game. Unfortunately, he even did a little less than what I predicted.
Michael Cunningham
March 17th, 2010
1:58 am
@ The Truth: Bibby initiated the offense a few times (and we know that means he passes and gets out of the way) but Teague had his chances, too. he just didn’t look very good. i’m not blasting the kid by any means but that’s how he looked. he pretty much agreed. and by ugly shot, i don’t mean his form, i mean he barely got rim on a couple of them. that’s what happened. i thought Woody took a fair tone in assessing him. i think i did, too. at some point giving the kid a pass each time he looks bad is going to get old.
David Smith
March 17th, 2010
2:19 am
I’m glad Teague finally got some burn after riding the pine most of the season. Yes he made his share of rookie mistakes, Yes he looked uncomfortable out there at times, and Yes he will be called to task if he continues to make those same mistakes. I wonder if Mark Price is spending some time with him (doubt it) and if Woody will continue to give him some minutes to help build his confidence (highly doubt it). I just hope the kid gets a fair chance to show what he can do instead of being yet another wasted draft pick that never got the opportunity to do so (Salim Stoudamire, Boris Diaw, and Acie Law to name a few).
northcyde
March 17th, 2010
2:43 am
LOL @ Salim and Acie never got the chance. Man please. What are both of those guys doing now? Are they leading a ballclub? Are they even getting any playing time outside of garbage time?
Here’s a question to the entire blog. When you see Teague . . do you see a baller?
I’m not talking about potential baller or a baller that needs to be developed. I’m talking about what you’ve seen of the kid so far this year. Is he a baller or not?
What gets old Mr Cunningham, are all of these fans that blame Woody for guys not being able to ball. Everything you’re seeing about Teague, was said about Salim Stoudamire, Shelden Williams, and Acie Law.
- Salim is out of the league
- Acie is on his way out of the league after this season
- and Shelden may be joining both of them after 2010
If you’re a baller, then you’re a baller. If you’re not, then you’ll quickly be out of this league.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 17th, 2010
2:51 am
I didn’t see the first half, but during garbage time he did look very nervous. The confident Teague drives into the lane and lets the rest of his game follow from there. Tonight’s Teague was trying too hard. Athletes in general play better when they use their instincts rather than thinking about every move. Hopefully he worked the jitters off and will come correct against the Raptors.
Big Ray
March 17th, 2010
5:38 am
When I see Teague, I see a baller.
What do you see, Northcyde ?
And let’s keep the Woody part out of it. Not all of us blame Woody for Billy Knight’s mistakes…
Big Ray
March 17th, 2010
5:42 am
Tell you what gets twice as old: pointing it out every time Teague looks bad, and ignoring it every time he looks good. But you aren’t going to see too many people ‘fess up to that one. They’ll find excuses for him looking good (or simply will not give him one iota of credit for it) by declaring it garbage time or whatever…
Marcus
March 17th, 2010
6:46 am
We have a chance for some major strides as we close out the season. For our last 8 AWAY games, only 1 is vs. a better team (record-wise): CLE
The remaining 7 are vs. teams either in the bottom half of playoff contention [TOR (tonite), CHA, MIL (2x)] or steamrolling towards the lottery (PHI, DET, WSH).
Of course it still pains me to look at the schedule of past games and see 6 AWAY games that got away, including recent MIA, GS and NYK losses, PHX loss where our starters got swooned by their bench, and December losses to CHI (’nother come from ahead loss) & the controversial shot clock loss @ CLE.
Astro Joe
March 17th, 2010
6:55 am
Funny, having enough quality depth that allows the team to compete for a #3 spot while still grooming a rookie PG seems almost like a bad thing to some. Sorry, but I’m not really feeling like we’re one really good rookie PG away from the NBA Finals. They are probably 3-4 other missing ingredients in this recipe. Let’s allow the coaching staff time to help Teague improve his game. IMO, his issues are mostly from the neck up (while Bibby is from the neck down). I think Teague can still LEARN plenty in practice and with somewhat limited playing time. He’s not ready and I personally don’t think that is an indictment of Jeff nor the coaching staff. Some plants take longer to grow than others.
o.O-Mac-Town -Macon, Georgia- Westsider-O.o
March 17th, 2010
7:16 am
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=4015
I see a baller when I see Teague. I see a very quick guard with the ability to penetrate, chase down guys, offer high energy, and the need to work on his J and decision making a little.
What I also see is a rookie who barely gets big minutes, but has produced a little when given more than 20 mins in a game.
There was a span of 8 games in December where Teague played 20 plus mins
in 5 of them.
out of those 5 games, he shot 43% or better and scored in double digits in 3 of the games.
His best performances came on back to back nights of significant minutes where he went 5-6 for 11 and 5-9 for 12.
So, at this point, who’s to say he cant perform if given significant minutes on a consistent basis???
O'Brien
March 17th, 2010
7:31 am
Good win for the Hawks. And by getting a blowout, we were able to rest starters for the game tonight.
Teague might not be as good as some of us think he is, but he is also not as bad as some of us think he is either. Woody speaks highly of him, and thinks he will run the team one day. He has never spoken that highly of Acie or Salim, so that bodes well for Teague going forward, if he continues to work on his game.
northcyde,
Marvin was the #2 pick, and has been in the league 5 years. When you look at him, do you see a baller?
If Teague develops into a solid backup PG for us, I’m okay with that. Like AJ said, Teague is the 19th pick in the draft, and the 7th PG taken. He is going to need time to be developed properly. Woody is going about his development the way he thinks is best for the team.
I would have liked to see Teague get more minutes early in the season, but this late in the season, I can understand not giving Teague many minutes. We are still competing for the #2 seed, and there are 16 games left.
Hopefully Bibby will play better than he did early on, and Teague will keep working on his game, and get some confidence. His time will come where he will have increased responsibilities (probably next season), so he just needs to not think so fast, keep working on his shots, and stop committing silly fouls.
Truth-Serum
March 17th, 2010
7:34 am
When I see Teague, I see a guy who was drafted as the 7th point guard taken in the draft with the mindset of “this is not a lottery pick, all the really good point guards are taken but we still need to address the position, so….lets pick him and see…you never know we might get lucky.”
Famous basketball quote, ” there are no rookies at the end of the year.”
Teague averages right at 10 minutes a game and has had a chance to sit and watch some excellent guard play, with JJ, Crawford and the declining Bibby. A real “baller” would be in roundball heaven, soaking up every drop of presperation that falls on the court. A college undergraduate getting a chance to be in the professional circles arguably the best backcourt in “B” ball when JJ and Crawford are on the court similtaneously.
How cool is that?
So, as we wind down the season heading for the stretch run, Teague has had ample time to learn from the best, practice his game and get significant game time experience.
How do you asses him at this point?
I see him as not ready to unseat an aging veteran in Bibby who can no longer jump or run with any speed.
Why?
Bibby my not have the physical skills any more but his brain has not taken a retirement. His Basketball IQ is vastly superior to Teague’s who is cant seem to transition from a highschool/playground mentality to compete assertively with the level of NBA play.
Its his responsibility to step his game up. Real,”ballers” take that responsibility,Ray. He has the perfect environment to do just that. What you have to accept is that teague was no lottery, no, far from it. As the 7th point guard taken, you have to consider that its not a lock that you will make the team, let alone make an impact. How old is teague? Hell be 22 in june, but he plays 19 and still on a college level mentally.
I suspect that if you have patience with teague, and with a little luck, by the time hes 24, he will have an impact and a better understanding of the game, his strenghts, weaknesses and how to maximize his value while enhancing his teams quality.
Right now, I can see why Bibby starts over a physically superior Teague. Bibby, I believe has two years left on his contract. If thats true teague can take him in the last year of the contract and push him next year.
If I were teague I just be excited about where I am at and the opportunity to witness and learn from some of the best players and minds in the game.
Woodson is doing an excellent job with teague, so sit down Bubba crew.
Truth-Serum
March 17th, 2010
7:40 am
*assess
big will
March 17th, 2010
7:44 am
The only way the kid going to get better you got to give him the playing time. If he is the future starting point. he got to learn from his mistakes. a player cannot reach his peak playing garbage ball. its up to the coach to decide when you are ready. give the kid more playing time with the starters so he will know his roll when it count. you cannot develope the way m woodson run things. he only go 2 to 3 deep on his bench. no one will get better unless you go to a different team, or get a new coach…..
Dumb post of the year candidate
March 17th, 2010
7:47 am
I will add your name and post to the potential winners list “big will”.
Hawker
March 17th, 2010
8:10 am
Who is the most popular guy on a football team? The back up quarterback. Who is the most talked about guy on a basketball team? The backup point guard. O’k, he played… it wasn’t great but he will get better with some seasoning (which means time).
joBjo
March 17th, 2010
8:25 am
Teague looked good on the floater in the lane early on a fast break. he’s got the tools. needs to work with Price on the shot. The shot looks pretty good form wise. I Would prefer if he got a little air under his feet when he shoots sometimes. He’s gonna need to elevate a lttile sometimes to get that shot off in the NBA. Look a Mo, he elevates well and it helps him get his shot off.
Nacho
March 17th, 2010
8:26 am
Truth seroms mama is a bubba crew.
The Real Hawk
March 17th, 2010
8:30 am
How does a team shoot 67% from the charity lane?
newkid
March 17th, 2010
8:45 am
I believe the 6th PG taken in the ‘09 draft was Ty Lawson, and the 9th PG taken was Darren Collison. Not sure how much weight ought to be given to the fact that JQuick was the 7th. He needs more court time before it’s clear if he’s a baller (hope he is), but don’t discount the possibility that additional court time just might reveal that he cannot cut it. Front office personnel have fairly consistently shown an ability to swing and miss in evaluating/selecting young talent (e.g., Sheldon, Acie, Salim, Marvin, etc), while leaving gems (e.g., Rudy Gay, Monta Ellis, CP3, Brandon Roy, the Williams kid in Utah, etc) to be taken by organizations drafting lower. Don’t discount it happening again, and again, and…. However, it must be said that the Smoove selection – at what #16 – does appear to have been a gem. Jury still out on JQuick.
Astro Joe
March 17th, 2010
8:56 am
newkid, I assume that the scouting team changed when Sund came in and BK left. So I’m not sure thatthere is truly a clear connection between the scouting and selection of Acie vs. the scouting and selection of Teague.
I have a bias against young players. Collison and Douglass were both seniors with a strong defensive foundation. Teague’s selection felt like Sund was “swinging for the fences”. I hope it works out. I’m not too worried about it. Maybe, he will be the next Kevin Johnson as someone said on this very blog a few months ago.
newkid
March 17th, 2010
9:18 am
Could be you’re correct about transitioning to a different talent scouting staff under Sund AJ, I’m not privy; but the connecting thread – if in fact JQuick proves, with additional playing time, to be yet another missed opportunity – is consistent failure in drafting a really talented PG to add to what is clearly a very talented core. Whether BK’s crowd or Sund’s crowd or someone else’s crowd, it’s not good for the franchise to continue to strike out in identifying/selecting young PGs. Point guards make or break HCs. It could be argued that a Rondo or a Deron Williams in Hawks blue on their draft nights and beyond would have significantly influenced how we’ve graded Woody’s coaching ability over the years. With the jury still out on JQuick, have we drafted a decent PG in the last 20 years, or since Pete in the ’70s?
PMC
March 17th, 2010
9:26 am
I love the way our big guys pass the ball and set up each other down low.
Ultimately, really good effort all around last night. Yes it was New Jersey… but they handled their business and didn’t sleepwalk. They are coming toegther nicely.
KevinA
March 17th, 2010
9:26 am
I was impressed by the team:
We did not have to overplay any one player. Marvin had the most with 32 min
The last three qt we passed and assisted great. 24 assists
The team including the bench took care of the ball. 7 turn overs
A nice balanced attack. The guards, swing men and the big’s all had good attempts in quality and quanity.
49% FG% is efficient.
We did not over shoot the 3 pt shot and took them in the flow of the offense. 8-15
Just a good team effort. Loved the up tempo style of play.
Astro Joe
March 17th, 2010
9:29 am
newkid, I think Doc Rivers may have been the best PG drafted by the Hawks in the past 2-3 decades.
BAD ANALOGY TIME… In the NFL, some teams shy away from drafting QBs, they’d rather bring in a young veteran than deal with the growing pains of a rookie QB. What if the Hawks go a similar path and every 3-4 years, acquire a PG to lead the team for a while, would that be awful? I agree, it’s not ideal but as I get older, I am learning that there is more than one way to make a really good cheeseburger. So maybe there is more than one way to maintain quality PG play on a very good team.
Fundamentals
March 17th, 2010
9:36 am
Good to see Teague get some run. Seems we handled a bad team in the process so it’s good for all. Hopefully he’ll settle in more over the next few games. Getting healthy is priority #1, developing players #2. He made his mistakes, he was definitely nervous.
I’ve said it all year. Teague just needs to settle in and run the offense when he gets in. When he strives for stats and tries to hard, bad things happen. When he just plays his game, he does good work. I’m hoping for a relaxed, settled Teague tonight. We need to know what he’ll bring, maybe not for this season, but definitely for next year and thereafter.
Good job handling your business last night!
newkid
March 17th, 2010
9:42 am
I played a few years of little league baseball as a kid AJ, not very good I might add. When my coaches sent me up to ‘bat’ with a runner on 1st, I was often instructed to ‘take a walk’. There was certainly nothing wrong with my ability to hear and comprehend instructions, so I’d stand in the batter’s box and take every pitch in hopes of getting thah walk. So why would the Hawks swing ‘for a PG’ if the strategy is to seek that talent through trade. Makes no sense to waste a pick on a point if you’ve adopted a strategy of pursuing your points through trade. To use your analogy, you’ve first got to determine – and fairly definitively – whether you’re making a cheeseburger or a fish w/cheese sandwich. What’ll you have?
terrell
March 17th, 2010
9:46 am
Big Ray, he has no choice but to endorse him. Sund picked him. You think he’s going to come out and say Teague is a dud, or something crazy like that, with his job on the line? Man, you trippin!
terrell
March 17th, 2010
9:49 am
Astro, “Some plants take longer to grow than others”? Never heard you say that about Marvin. loll!
terrell
March 17th, 2010
9:51 am
Newkid, Josh was the 17th pick.
KevinA
March 17th, 2010
9:59 am
Since this seems to be guard day. Bibby just needs to play fewer minutes. It’s all about who can fill a hole defensively, rebound and take care of the ball with pushintg the tempo. We do not need shooters. The big 4 and Marvin hardly have enough attempts as it is.
Bibby and Teague show flashes of good passing but mainly they just need to hand off. The Nets and Toronto do not have the players to tourch/expose our guards like other teams do. A nice time for JJ to recover.
Because of probably not getting any value out of Bibby in a trade, we may have to watch this mess for another year. After next year look for Bibby to be gone and with luck Teague may develope to be a good backup. We still need a PG. Period.
terrell
March 17th, 2010
10:07 am
And Collins and Lawson dont play for Woody the dictator. Teague is playing timid. He can ball, but old stubborn butt, wont let him play his game. Plus Lawson gets backup pg min, and Collins was thrust into the starting lineup(major min), which proves that you cant learn in this league by watching. You need CONSISTENT min. Theres no freakin way, anybody can say that Darren Collisen is any better that Jeff Teague. Better system, better coaching, = better player. For instance, Teague SUPPOSEDLY started at pg last night, but Bibby was bringing the ball up. How is he supposed to learn how to be an NBA pg by passing the ball to the VETERAN and getting the heck out of the way? Thats basically all he was doing. Wonder if Collisen or Lawson would look so good if they were in his shoes? I doubt it.
Sautee
March 17th, 2010
10:11 am
Truth-serum,
You said this: “Right now, I can see why Bibby starts over a physically superior Teague.”
So can I.
T-s that was one of your best posts here.
Kudos.
terrell
March 17th, 2010
10:12 am
Kevin A, already calling Teague a back up pg, are you? Wow! I bet you wanted to trade Josh Smith last year too, didnt you? Impatient, impatient, impatient. lol!
terrell
March 17th, 2010
10:15 am
Kevin A, I meant a CAREER backup pg.
Sautee
March 17th, 2010
10:21 am
“What if the Hawks go a similar path and every 3-4 years, acquire a PG to lead the team for a while, would that be awful?”
AJ, that TOTALLY depends on their choices. Speedy, Lue, and Anthony Johnson couldn’t get it done. Bibby has, but it cost a LOT to get him.
But, no that is not a bad way to go IF you make good choices. I’d like to find the next Chauncey Billups myself.
KevinA
March 17th, 2010
10:23 am
terrell.
Teague in year three may be fine. I think he is a keeper – but like Marvin and Josh, I am willing to be patient.
O'Brien
March 17th, 2010
10:28 am
Teague looked like a rookie who was nervous making his first start. And that’s understandable. Do I think he should be our starting PG? Not right now. Bibby is the guy. I just think he should have been given more minutes earlier in the season when Bibby was struggling.
I hope Teague will develop like Aaron Brooks did in Houston. This is Brooks’ 3rd year. His rookie year he averaged 11 mpg, last season he averaged 25 mpg, and this season he is averaging 36 mpg.
Or maybe Teague will become a solid backup PG. And that’s okay too. I am okay with the Hawks dealing for a young veteran PG to take over when Bibby leaves in 2 years if Teague is not up to the task (I wanted us to sign Jack instead of Bibby last offseason).
And if Teague does not develop into a reliable player, we’ll trade to bring in other assets.
From espn.com daily dime. Coach of the year watch:
1. Scott Brooks, Thunder:
2. Scott Skiles, Bucks
3. Nate McMillan, Blazers
4. Larry Brown, Bobcats
5. (tie) Lionel Hollins, Grizzlies, and Rick Adelman, Rockets:
HawksFan11
March 17th, 2010
10:33 am
That’s right terrell, career backup at best. A point guard, IMO, has to be a triple threat in order to be credible. An effective PG is a floor general who the defenses respect his ability to (1) penetrate and create his own shot, (2) penetrate and create for a team member, or (3) pull up from anywhere with a deadly jumper. JT0 has shown none of the above. At 6′ 2″, a set shot that doesn’t draw iron scares no one.
On the defensive end, he seems to be going to the Mario West school of defense. Mistaking hyperactive folishness for aggressive play; the result with both is silly, untimley fouls.
Oh yeah, a point guard doesn’t try tricky dribbles between his legs (well, tricky is you don’t have handle), while no one is defending you, miss your opposite hand and just dribble the ball out of bounds, No exactly floor general material.
Spit out the kool-aid folks, it’s bad for ya.
I’d love to see this kid prove me wrong, but after watching him all season, I’ve seen zero improvement in his skills. I’m no fan of Woody either, but the one good thing that he’s done all year is not put winning at risk in the interest of giving PT to a player who is not up to the task.
KevinA
March 17th, 2010
10:35 am
terrell,
You can’t teach speed. He has shown flashes of very good passing and decent defense. If he learns to use his speed to be a facilitator and focuses on defense – I think he has tremendous upside.
He does not have a good feel for the game. He is not a natural thinker. It will take time – but he can be a good player in the long term.
At the beginning of the year I thought we would be between 50-54 wins. I also think we will be better in 2011 and better yet in 2012. All predicated on the upside of Josh, Al, Marvin, ZaZa and now add to the list Teague.
KevinA
March 17th, 2010
10:53 am
Since the All-Star break the ball is going to the big’s more often. Even Marvin is getting a few more touches. We do not need a PG that needs the ball to be effective. Remember the Lakers have Fisher. The day is coming soon we will not need 20 pt’s from JJ or 17 from Jamal. Marvin, Josh and Al will take over. The key to our improvement is to look for the pass and all players attack the rim in the flow of the offense. We are headed in that direction and we are looking good. Team ball without a superstar is what we have and we need JJ and Jamal to buy into it.
It is unfortunate that Bibby can’t defend and get’s exploited by the Jason Kidd’s of the league. I love him to death but his time is coming to a close. PS I applauded Sund for the Bibby resign. Looks like a two year deal would have been better.
Lacsho
March 17th, 2010
10:58 am
I see people with multiple ID’s are trying to push their agenda through against Teague.
SUSPECT 1 STATED A GREAT PG:
(1) Penetrate and create his own shot,
I don’t know what team you’ve been watching, but Teague does that. Perhaps he will get better at it with consistent minutes. I can’t say that Bibby does that.
(2) penetrate and create for a team member
This sounds the same as your number one. The kids hits open teammates every game.
, or (3) pull up from anywhere with a deadly jumper.
So a great point guard is required to have a deadly jumper?
REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!
You don’t have a clue about basketball!!!!
A good pg is the coach on the floor and he’s a facilitator.
Mike is Back
March 17th, 2010
11:01 am
Big Ray, agreed with you on when I see Teague I see a baller. Now I’m not saying he is at that point right now…however the ingredients are there. As bad as his shot looks…the only way he is going to get some rhythm with his shot is to keep shooting. Once he gets his shot going…or if he gets enough consistent minutes to get some rhythm with his shot…his game will take off.
This will be a great opportunity for him to build some confidence…once he gets some confidence the game will become easier for him. I thought Woody was very candid…MC too…you want to see Teague do good…but it has been a struggle. However, lately I’m starting to see some signs that he is starting to figure it out. With his sporadic minutes…you really can’t expect more than that at this point in his career.
newkid
March 17th, 2010
11:17 am
If some of you cats are correct about the growth of our front line and the prowess of an ‘inside out’ approach to offense over the next year or more, couldn’t we insert Ray Allen for JJ (with JCross continuing to come off the bench) without losing much of our offensive production? Couldn’t Allen – as a player who thrives in a ball movement offense rather than an iso offense – be our ‘bridge’ to a longer term solution at the 2-spot?
Astro Joe
March 17th, 2010
11:35 am
newkid, I hear you. Clearly, it is way too early to make a call on Teague, other to say that any thoughts that he is ready now can be put to bed. But that doesn’t mean that he won’t be ready as early as November. Just not now.
Sautee, that would be nice. I also think that with Smith’s new point-forward role, the type of PG needed may have changed slightly. I’ve read posts criticizing that our PGs typically bring the ball up and hand it off, at the same time, I watch guys like Rondo dribble until there are 4 seconds left before trying to make an assist. In both cases, we’re talking about one pass in a possession. Seems like this team is best served by a guard who can play very good defense AND knock down open jumpers. And to your point, that sounds a lot like some of the best qualities of Billups (along with leadership).
KevinA
March 17th, 2010
11:37 am
newkid,
That idea is fine with a Allen type player. I keep waiting for Allen to fall off a cliff in production. I think he is like 35.
HawksFan11
March 17th, 2010
11:39 am
So Lascho, let me get this straight. You say “A good pg is the coach on the floor and he’s a facilitator”.
Is coach on the floor somehow different from floor general?
If not the tools that I pointed out, what skills whould you like your “faciliitator” to display?
If other teams don’t respect your PG as a weapon, he becomes ineffective; case in point with our boy.
Any of these names ring a bell to ya:
Mo Cheeks
Isiah Thomas
John Stockton
Magic Johnson
Chris Paul
Steve Nash
Stephen Curry
Jason Kidd (developed jumper later in his career)
All great PGs with the skill sets that I described, that made their teams and team members better.
HawksFan11
March 17th, 2010
11:41 am
Sorry for misspeling your nams Lacsho
HawksFan11
March 17th, 2010
11:41 am
Name. Damn keyboard!
heelsfan
March 17th, 2010
11:41 am
Joe is a good player and has brought alot to the A but is it me or did the offense have a much better flow to it minus the Nets.
Astro Joe
March 17th, 2010
11:42 am
newkid, I’ve been thinking about Mike Miller. He is a guy who is used to playing some SF, has shown a willingness to pass the ball and involve his teammates and can obviously shoot from distance. I can see Miller and Jamal playing well together in the 4th quarter. For 2-3 years at a reasonable price, that may be one way to make a good cheeseburger.
KevinA
March 17th, 2010
11:44 am
Astro Joe,
Seems like this team is best served by a guard who can play very good defense AND knock down open jumpers.
A guard like that with the Hawks may be worth 3-4 more wins a season. Add facilator skills to the list, 6-7 assists, and we might be an elite team. We don’t need great/All-Star, we just need very good.
Astro Joe
March 17th, 2010
11:46 am
heelsfan, don’t forget the following portion of your question “the Nets”. A team on pace to be the worse in league history… “the Nets”.
Sautee
March 17th, 2010
11:47 am
AJ,
Thanks. Yes, that’s exactly what I was thinking.
Plus, Billups has, In my opinion, the best feel for what’s going on out on the floor, of any point guard currently playing. We truly need some of that.
Which is why I’ve been mostly silent on Teague, who sorely lacks that kind of feel, though I still believe that regular minutes would speed up the process.
nunna yo biznezz
March 17th, 2010
11:48 am
Truth said:If I were teague I just be excited about where I am at and the opportunity to witness and learn from some of the best players and minds in the game.
Woodson is doing an excellent job with teague, so sit down Bubba crew.
I say:C’mon son,i would feel better if my rookie PG would want to get out on the floor asap!!
Teagues main strength is to penetrate and find the open player or take it in himself.
And,to run,run,run every opportunity he gets..
this is why i challenged the comments from woodson to big ray yesterday.
i hear what woody was saying,like he wanted to use teagues speed and to run,but what happens when we do get rebounds and go up the court?? josh,horford and all looked for bibby and he jogged up the court..
this was the perfect time to dish the ball out to JT and let him turn on the jets and do something as we got the rebound,but noooooooooo,it was pass the ball to bibby or give it to teague and we jog up the court behind him..
the only time he looked relaxed and played well and his game was when he came in for garbage time during the final 6 minutes of the game..
he had mario,mo,zsa zsa then collins and randmo and he did not have crawford nor bibby to hand the ball off to and he found open players who didn’t hit their shots and he got open for a breakaway dunk as well..
he had no bibby and no crawford,and no joe.it was he,the PG aka Floor General aka The Coach on the Floor aka The Leader aka The Man..Playing his game..
the only time he has players in with him to play his game is the end of the bench players..
His teamates,the coaching staff,and you too truth,should know his game and tendacies..Now do i think we should all bow down and cuddle him and do only what he knows and whats good for him when he is out there? under normal circumstances no!!! but,u have no choice when u want someone to lead in a game where he is frustrated and nervous because for 1. he has to give the ball up and run into a corner and 2.he does not want to mess up and be looked at as a bust..
hey teague,i know u reading this..
you have to take over and show woody how u play your game and not only do u have to adjust to your teams plans but they have to adjust with what u bring to the table..
woody will not respect u unless u go out and do u,and be productive while u are doing it..
look at josh and his wild shots..look at how bibbs let every pg scoot right be him..look at how crawford comes and gets the ball from u and does his own thing..and look at how everyone stands around and watches the iso joe show!!
you have to get like mo,and josh and have that “i can work within this system and add my game to it”mentality son..
what are u waiting for..
DO IT!!!
Sautee
March 17th, 2010
11:55 am
On another note: I wonder just how many times ‘Nique will say “Rapners” tonight?
Michael Cunningham
March 17th, 2010
11:55 am
@ Big Ray: “Tell you what gets twice as old: pointing it out every time Teague looks bad, and ignoring it every time he looks good.” not sure who you mean here, but that’s not me. i call them as i see them. the kid was the 19th pick and gets irregular burn on a vet team so expectations shouldn’t be too high. and of course what you are saying works the other way for some: if he struggles, then it can only be because he doesn’t get enough minutes; if he balls, then Woody is stupid for not playing him more.
HawksFan11
March 17th, 2010
11:55 am
Great post Nunna, and good advice as well. I hope he is reading this and heeds your words. It’s ultimately up to him to win the respect and admiration of his team, his coach, and the league. He alone has to DO IT!!!
Michael Cunningham
March 17th, 2010
11:59 am
one other note: Woody said the Hawks had two hard practices in the last week and Teague was good in both of them. the feeling I got from that is it would be to Teague’s advantage for the Hawks to get in more hard workouts with competitive scrimmages so he can show Woody he deserves more burn. the problem is the schedule doesn’t allow for many of those right now.
newkid
March 17th, 2010
11:59 am
Not a beef kinda guy AJ, but I’d order that cheeseburger.
KevinA
March 17th, 2010
12:00 pm
Astro Joe,
To add, we don’t even need any more offensive production from our PG. Just hit the shots the defense gives us. Get a couple more rebounds, drive and kick a couple and pick and roll a couple and push the ball.
If we had a PG that could take some pressure off our big’s by the quick guards who regular torch us, that would be huge.
KevinA
March 17th, 2010
12:07 pm
MC – tonight should be one of those games – Toronto plays lousy defense. A quick tempo works great against the Raptors. Something Teague will have to learn is not to out run our big’s and force it. Our big’s will beat theirs down the court – just be patient and pass the ball.
Lacsho
March 17th, 2010
12:09 pm
Hawksfan11- some teams need a pg that has a great shot, other teams like the Hawks need a guy who can dish out 8-10 assist per game. I agree with your points on penetration.
I’m not saying Teague is ready to start and lead this team, but I am saying he needs to get 15-20 quality minutes per game, not just garbage time. Since we know the Hawks are not going 82-0 why not let the rookie get some quality burn. Some people automatically equate more playing time for Teague equals more losses during this current season. If we can win with a below par starting pg, why can’t we win with Teague getting quality minutes.
Some people say he should learn while watching; some people learn better as they get on hand training. This is like any other job. One can learn while watching another person, however; one truly learns once they start doing that actual job.
cp
March 17th, 2010
12:12 pm
Great post ray, O Brien, and nunna. The thing that I didn’t like was the fact that they had Teague playing off the ball. Its obvious that playing off the ball is not his strength. I think it would have been better to let him handle the rock and let Bibby be the one to play off the ball… Hopefully tonight he is not as nervous and he does better. Its like Najeh said last night, you could tell he was doing too much thinking instead of playing his game. Toronto is not known for defense so I hope we push the tempo and attack the hoop.
KevinA
March 17th, 2010
12:45 pm
Lacsho
March 17th, 2010
12:09 pm
I’m not saying Teague is ready to start and lead this team, but I am saying he needs to get 15-20 quality minutes per game, not just garbage time. Since we know the Hawks are not going 82-0 why not let the rookie get some quality burn. Some people automatically equate more playing time for Teague equals more losses during this current season.
I agree is some part. But let’s be honest. Playing time with limited skills is a small role. One of Teague’s problems is he has not figured out how to be effective being the 5th option. He keeps making plays out of the flow of the offense. In time he will learn that. We still have an outside chance at the second seed. There is little time for a rookie that is lost.
Lacsho
March 17th, 2010
1:10 pm
Kevin- I think Teague posses more than limited skills. Bibby has been playing with limited skills all year, and the team has done fine. Your pg should never be your fifth option. He should be setting up options for his teammates on offense. Therefore he is the first option. At this point in Teague’s career, he should never play the two guard; He should run the point. When you let Bibby and Crawford run the point while Teague is on the floor, he’ll look a little lost b/c he’s playing out of position. When he runs the point, he tends to get easy assist and good penetration. I don’t care about his shooting at this point; I want to see him set up the offense and get people in their right spots, so the offense can run fluently. Tony Parker was a horrible shooter coming into the league, however; Pop allowed Parker to develop, now he can shoot jumpers with the best of them.
Fresh
March 17th, 2010
1:11 pm
I don’t post much but I visit the blog alot while I’m at work. I think I must have missed something though…
Nunna,
What is the bubba crew?
MsDee
March 17th, 2010
1:30 pm
I dont care what no body says, when Teague played that game in LA against the Lakers, I would say that was his best NBA performance ever so far but Woody did not allow him no more game time for the next 3 or 4 games there after and that my friends/fans of the HAWKS was when Teague started to look the way he did last night..scared to make a mistake, nervous, timmed, ect.. Woodson had no right to not play him anymore. He did the same thing to Salim when he scored all but 20+ points in the 4th quarter alone..Salim saw no more day light after that. So all yall who keep saying, “Teague is no baller, Woodson knows what he is talking about cause of Salim, Acie, and Ivey, Teague doesnt have what it takes…,yall dont know what yall are talking about!!! Woodson just SUCKS when it comes to rookies PERIOD!!!!
MsDee
March 17th, 2010
1:34 pm
I bet if Teague would have been under Doc Rivers, NO ONE HERE COULD HONESTLY SAY THAT TEAGUE WOULD HAVE PLAYED LIKE IT DID LAST NIGHT!! Look at the ‘no respect’ talk Rondo got when he entered the NBA and look at him now. Mann,,I would luv to have Doc as a head coach!!
Astro Joe
March 17th, 2010
1:37 pm
KevinA, we clearly need a better defender at the point. But let’s face it, who is keeping Derrick Rose (as an example) out of the lane? Not Rondo… anyone remember last year’s playoff? Great players just don;t take advantage of lesser players, they’re usually able to “go off” on any and everyone.
Sautee, the interesting thing about Billups is that he struggled to find his way during his early years in the league. One ownders if he would be the player he is today if he had to continue to be a traditional PG… pounding the ball while waiting for a teamate to get open. There’s a good chance that “the next Billups” is a not-well-regarded player who has mostly been a square peg trying to operate with a round hole. Someone who most fan bases would NOT be excited about acquiring.
Grandad
March 17th, 2010
1:55 pm
Fresh:
I suppose I’m ‘an’ elder statesman of the ’supposed’ ‘Bubba Crew’.
This sobriquet was bestowed upon a lineup of “The Usual Suspects”
by the mysterious ‘Truth Serum’, a.k.a. ‘Sybil’, amongst many, many,
other alias and @ the risk of offending my fellow ‘crew’ comrades
I will reveal some of the crew:
Ken Strickland…K.S….Keyser Soze
Sautee
Big Ray
Clyde
And myself…kobayashi…of course!
terrell
March 17th, 2010
2:20 pm
Thanks Lascho.
Sautee
March 17th, 2010
2:22 pm
Fresh,
I’m sure it’s confusing, and all the more so since many times, for example, I’ll DISAGREE with, say Ken Strickland over the use of Teague and Bibby, or with Clyde over Horford, but that never stops Truth-serum from using the “bubba crew” designation. He seems to think there is a organized cabal specifically to bring down Mike Woodson. Of course if you read our posts, you’ll find a HUGE difference of opinion about not only Woodson, but about the Hawks in general. Anyone who thinks that a cogent group of posters at a sports blog could actually conspire to agree, hasn’t been to many sports blogs.
But, be that as it may, basically, truth-serum is using the old “me vs. the world” idiom to define himself on the blog. Which is harmless until he starts making KKK references or using profanity. Then he’s stepping out of bounds.
And, by the way, nunna was quoting Truth-serum in his post.
terrell
March 17th, 2010
2:27 pm
Hawksfan11 said “Developed jumper late in his career”, but your’re already killin Teagues jumper in his 1st year? Hilarious! People said the same thing about Rondo’s jumper. Now he’s an All-star.
terrell
March 17th, 2010
2:29 pm
And btw, Hawksfan11, when was the last time you saw Jason Kidd shoot a jumpshot?
HawksFan11
March 17th, 2010
4:13 pm
terrell,
Weren’t you looking on February 26, 2010 at Phillips Arena? Jason Kidd was 4 of 10 from 3 point land.
HawksFan11
March 17th, 2010
4:22 pm
And you’re right, Rondo is an All-Star. An All-Star with 2 out of 3 critical PG skills. NBA teams dare him to shoot the jumper. His strength is creating for others.
0.234 – 3P%
9.7 – APG
terrell
March 17th, 2010
5:26 pm
I never said Kidd cant shoot. He shoots a set shot, just like Teague does. Teague will get better, just like Kidd did. If that makes any sense. lol!
terrell
March 17th, 2010
5:27 pm
And you dont think Teague can create for others?
The Man
March 17th, 2010
5:31 pm
No, the Bubba crew leader is Ken Strickland! Ive heard T.S. say it many times and the “Bubba Crew” is in reference to the Woody Haters on this site who are likened to the hate of the KKK.
Grandad you werernt around when this was all happening but Im sure he would credit you with a membership.
Every body on here using some form of strong words. There is a filter that screens profanity so I dont think you are being honest either.
AG
March 17th, 2010
6:04 pm
Big points to last night, Marvin shot over 10 shots. Do the research, when Marvin shoots over 10 shots, the Hawks are VERY successful. Also, ZaZa should live in the weight room and develop his body to be an enforcer. When Wade, James etc come through the lane, he should deck them. He should never have fewer than 5 fouls. He should be the tough guy. I also watched Josh. He is not even trying to rebound. He continues to fail to block out.
Professor Krump
March 17th, 2010
6:47 pm
M. Cunningham, what do you think we could get for teague in the way of a trade?