Atlanta Hawks: For wear and tear talk ’bout practice, not games
Woody ran his players into the ground when he looked like this.
From time to time I’ve heard concerns that Woody is running his main guys into the ground and I know that’s been his rep. So let’s look at the minutes per game for J.J., Smoove and Al before I point out how those numbers might not even be the most important consideration in the matter.
J.J.’s minutes are down slightly, from 39.5 last season to 38.1 this year–the fewest he’s averaged since he was a bench player for Phoenix in 2002-03. Smoove is playing 35.1 minutes per game, same as last season and down from his workload in his third and fourth seasons. Horford’s minutes are up to 35.2 from 33.2.
(Marvin and Bibby aren’t really in the discussion anymore. Marvin is getting the least burn since he was a rookie. Bibby’s minutes are at a career low, less than Jamal’s.)
OK, those are the overall minutes for the Big 3, but what about the monthly splits? Is Woody riding his Big Three more as the playoffs approach?
For J.J. and Al it depends on how many minutes they log the rest of the season. Al’s minutes took a big jump from January (35.3) to February (39.2) but are way down in March (33.7). J.J.’s average minutes increased in January (38.1) and February (40.1) but are back down in March (37.8). Smoove’s minutes have been pretty constant through January (38.1), February (38.1) and March (39.3).
You can always look through the game logs and raise an eyebrow about the minutes here and there. Recent examples include J.J. playing 42 minutes at Miami after he played 37 minutes while sick the night before. Josh played 45 vs. Golden State and then 40 at Miami, where he didn’t seem to have his usual focus and energy(though Smoove doesn’t have the same age and injury concerns as J.J.)
But players’ work rate outside of games might be as (or even more) important to wear and tear than what happens the rest of the time. How often do they practice? How long are the sessions? And how intense are they? I don’t have any way of objectively measuring where the Hawks rate in those areas–I only get to see the latter part of full practices and usually they are just shooting or walking through plays by then. But my feeling is the practices have shortened and from talking to Woody they’ve tended to be lighter workouts.
The subject came up the other day when Woody noted the Hawks had a good, hard practice on Wednesday before they headed to Washington. Being a coach and all, he lamented that he can’t put the Hawks through those kind of sessions more often.
“I can’t beat ‘em up like I did in the early days,” Woody said. “I’m serious. Ask Smoove. I used to give them no days off. We would practice every day. They used to hate me for that. I’ve learned to back off.”
Smoove says it’s true.
“(Blank) no we didn’t get a day off,” he said. “Especially when I was a rookie, we would come in when the veterans had days off. And we would come in an hour-and-a-half early and do a full practice, three-man weaves and everything. And then we would go out and do the second practice (with the veterans).”
And did they hate Woody for it?
“Hell yeah,” he said.
Woody knows he can’t do it like that anymore. That could matter more than the minutes logged by his horses, at least as it relates to physical wear and tear over the long term.
– Peep my story on Josh’s emerging leadership.
– Ken has the Pistons game tonight.
MC
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184 comments Add your comment
northcyde
March 13th, 2010
9:11 pm
Pistons have made a lot of jumpers in the 2nd. Hawks have made 2 jumpers outside of 15 feet in the 2nd half
Najeh Davenpoop
March 13th, 2010
9:12 pm
10 dimes for Josh. Beautiful pass.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 13th, 2010
9:14 pm
Great fast-break. Hawks have officially regained control of this game.
Sautee
March 13th, 2010
9:14 pm
As Danny Devito would say “Now THAT oughta do it!”
northcyde
March 13th, 2010
9:15 pm
great defense by Bibby, leading to the JJ layup
Up 16 with 3 to go . . . that may do it folks
Teague will get back in with 2 minutes to go, as long as the Pistons don’t cut it back to 10
Blast
March 13th, 2010
9:15 pm
Nobody can tell me that LeBron passes the ball better than Josh Smith! LeBron might rack up the assists, but he does not make more scintillating and needle thread passes better than Josh, especially this season!
Josh Smith is awesome! And I’m freaking glad he plays for Atlanta!
northcyde
March 13th, 2010
9:18 pm
Here comes Teague and Mario . . 2 minutes to go. . .
(( clapping for the starters ))
northcyde
March 13th, 2010
9:19 pm
Blast . . don’t get carried away now. Lebron may be the best passing forward of all time, next to Bird. Smoove can pass . . but not like Lebron.
KevinA
March 13th, 2010
9:21 pm
Teague wit 17 min – a good thing
northcyde
March 13th, 2010
9:22 pm
wowwwwwww @ Mario’s block/foul
J.J.M.
March 13th, 2010
9:23 pm
that wasnt a travel
KevinA
March 13th, 2010
9:23 pm
northcycde
Labron lives with the ball. the ball goes through him, If we lose JJ he may have as good or better passing strats
Melvin
March 13th, 2010
9:23 pm
Good win for the Hawks.
Blast
March 13th, 2010
9:24 pm
Northcyde,
I know Bron-Bron can throw it down, but have you seen the passes Josh has been making lately? Especially to non All Star players?
KevinA
March 13th, 2010
9:24 pm
he being smooth
northcyde
March 13th, 2010
9:26 pm
Are you guys seriously going to argue that Smoove passes better than Lebron? Seriously?
I love Smoove like everybody else, but Lebron is on a different level as a passer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPr3NNGL_fg
northcyde
March 13th, 2010
9:28 pm
And oh yeah . . . 8 wins in our last 11 games.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 13th, 2010
9:35 pm
It’s not really fair to compare anyone to LeBron, because nobody has LeBron’s combination of skills. LeBron has the ball-handling skills and lateral quickness of a point guard, and most of his dimes are a result of his ability to use those handles and quickness to drive inside against anyone. It’s hard to disregard those advantages of LeBron’s game and just isolate his court vision to compare it to Smoove’s, because LeBron is able to set up so many of his passes in a way that Smoove can’t.
I think it’s more fair to compare Smoove to true forwards and centers, who don’t handle the ball as much and who can’t take anyone and everyone off the dribble. They tend to get their assists in ways more similar to Smoove, such as finding people underneath the hoop out of the high post, for example. And if you do that, I’d say Smoove is fast approaching Kevin Garnett, Arvydas Sabonis, and Vlade Divac territory with his court vision.
Sautee
March 13th, 2010
9:41 pm
Northcyde,
Yeah, but we’re only 2-2 in our last 4.
Sorry man, but SOMEBODY had to say it.
I don’t see how anybody could be hatin’ tonight.
KevinA
March 13th, 2010
9:41 pm
What makes the Josh pass so special is they want him to take jumpers – they just lay off
Josh makes them pay by his passing
.
Blast
March 13th, 2010
9:42 pm
Northcyde,
I saw the video, and I can say I am not impressed at all. Those passes were phased out over several years, when James was still playing with Donyell Marshall, Ben Wallace et all. I’m talking about this year, man. I would love to see them put up a video of Josh’s assists this year alone, much less his whole year in the league.
I know Bron is a great athlete, but we all get so caught up in what he can do, that we forget to credit those that do some things better than him.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 13th, 2010
9:43 pm
If you look at northcyde’s link, for example, it’s highly unlikely that Smoove can ever make that first pass. That’s not because he doesn’t have the necessary court vision; it’s because he doesn’t have the lateral quickness and handles to shake his man and get in the paint like that when facing up. So I don’t know whether it’s even possible to say one guy passes better than the other, since they are usually playing in such different situations. The only situation that both players find themselves in regularly is when they are leading the fast break, and Josh has made plenty of amazing passes in that situation himself (like the 2nd pass LeBron makes in that video to Varejao).
Sautee
March 13th, 2010
9:43 pm
And LeBron has the size and vision of Magic. I don’t like him, but I admire his passing.
doc
March 13th, 2010
9:47 pm
josh is becoming a baller par excellance. nice to watch him come of age and quiet the doubters. the lightning rod no longer.
i am just as amazed that he continues to say the right thing in all situations. even in his clashes with woody he never brought it out of the club house. i have admired his athleticism and work ethic, it is nice to see it all come to fruition for him and the hawks organization. he will be one of the better mid first rounders in the league soon and rank with the best.
northcyde
March 13th, 2010
9:47 pm
Smoove is most comparable to Lamar Odom. Lamar can shoot better and a better rebounder, but Smoove is more athletic and much better defensively. But the passes that both make, are very similar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvSCBY1bYTg
Smoove is like a Lamar/Shawn Kemp hybrid . . which would make him extremely scary, if he could shoot the basketball.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 13th, 2010
9:48 pm
If I was making an All-NBA 1st Team Passing, though, LeBron is my starting SF and Smoove is my starting PF.
I have no idea who I would have at the other positions though…
Najeh Davenpoop
March 13th, 2010
9:51 pm
I’ve liked the Smoove/Odom comparison for a while for comparing their talents on the court, but the biggest difference between them by far is their mentality. Smoove has the mentality of a star and a locker room leader, whereas Odom has always had the mentality of a complementary player who doesn’t want to shoulder too much of the load. And even before Smoove became a star and a locker room leader, he was always much more aggressive than Odom has ever been.
O'Brien
March 13th, 2010
10:13 pm
Although I would have liked to see Joe Smith and Teague get more minutes in the second half, props to Woody for playing his bench extended minutes. For 2 games in a row, the bench has produced.
Hopefully they will continue to play well, and Woody will continue to give them playing time.
Good win Hawks.
Grandad
March 13th, 2010
10:35 pm
northcyde:
I’ve been away watching ball all day.
I mentioned that back in the 50’s…inferring…that I played once upon a time. Admittedly, I wasn’t very good. That’s why I bacame a coach.
Loved the game, studied it, absorbed all I could for the past 40 yrs.
After a lifetime in the game, one learns not to waste time in practice
on situations that will never occur in a game. I understand, hand eye coordination, etc., but any drill should be game specific.
As for Josh:
Why hasn’t Wdsn taught him fundamental footwork, how to shoot FT’s,
How to shoot a mid range jumper in rhythm (and why doesn’t he run
plays designed to do so). I’ll stop there for now.
I’m sure Wdsn did a good job teaching Josh to:
*jump high *run fast *block shots *dunk and many other things which require hand eye coordination.
Sautee – I’m not sure many HS coaches run 3 man weave anymore.
I’m fairly confident it’s a staple for AAU teams.
Grandad
March 13th, 2010
10:51 pm
northcyde:
Josh has the ability to be another Ron Artest.
Now the question is:
have I ever seen a basketball game?
LbJ can make pretty passes.
Josh is unselfish.
They both see the floor.
LbJ…2nd best passing forward ever! Quite the hyperbole.
Did you consider Rodman?
Never mind his passes were plain, he was crazy, and he was
just a ‘team player’.
I’m gonna have to think about that 2nd greatest passing
forward ever. [Rick Barry]
Sigh
March 14th, 2010
3:17 pm
Why is that all the Hawks analysis always have to say something negative? I’m not poing fingers, but it’s true. This is random, I know, but talking about how the Atlanta fans are no good, and such; it’s not going to help bring fans. Instead of talking negative about players/coaches/fans, why don’t you change that and start talking good, and support the fans to come, instead trying to support us by talking negative.
REALLY?
March 14th, 2010
3:38 pm
Josh is better than Ron Artest! but he, Josh is a power forward.
drmaryb
March 14th, 2010
8:27 pm
The Last time I checked Mr. Woodson……
Has a Championship RING! How many of you on this blog can say the SAME?
I didn’t think so!
drmaryb
March 14th, 2010
8:28 pm
How many of you EXPERTS on here have ever tasted cheap champagne run down your faces in a
NBA locker-room?