Not the Real MC: Hawks Squawks: Hawks 112, Sixers 93
1. You know him, you love him, you call for him to be traded – Marvin had a second strong game in a row.
Some Marvin-centric chatter:
Al Horford: “Everybody goes through struggles. It feels good to see Marvin be Marvin. Hopefully, he keeps this level of intensity up.” (Al has the gift of being able to pump up his teammates while not going overboard.)
Mike Woodson: “He’s had two solid games and we need Marvin to play that way. It takes so much pressure off of everybody when he’s scoring and rebounding the ball and defending like he was defending tonight. It’s nice to see. I’ve just got to push him to continue to play that way.”
From the man of the hour: “I’m trying to play with energy, trying to stay active. I think when I stay active, especially when I’m rebounding the basketball, I do a lot better personally and I help the team.”
2. Louis Williams lit up the Hawks. He made his first 10 attempts and finished with 30 points. I don’t know if you all care much for local players – Jodie Meeks and Thaddeus Young were two other Sixers with local ties – but you may well know that Williams was a two-time Mr. Basketball in Georgia who has slowly worked his way to something approaching stardom.
Woodson: “He’s a young player that’s starting to figure it out.”
3. What about Williams’ shoes? They were a weird light shade of blue. Something tells me they didn’t come off the rack. Speaking of which, Josh Smith left the locker room in purple shoes that matched a nice purple tie with a pinstriped shirt. I asked him where he got the shoes. Said Josh, “I can’t kiss and tell.”
4. I mentioned in the story for Thursday that the Hawks just need to go .500 for the rest of the season to hit 50 wins for the season, so you’d have to say that’s a near certainty and 55 wins (which would a 16-6 finish) isn’t out of the question. Try to remember back to what you expected of this team in the preseason. How does this match up?
5. The Hawks got a break with Elton Brand being out with tendonitis in his Achilles. I’m not saying they would have lost with Brand in the lineup, but it would have been different. The Hawks outrebounded Philly 47-32. Shades of the Hawks’ win over Chicago with Luol Deng and Joakim Noah out. Hawks had 56 PIP to Sixers’ 38.
6. Josh made some phenomenal passes. He made a one-haner from one wing, across the lane to a tightly guarded Marvin underneath the basket and his alley oop pass to Al came from beyond the three-point line. He made another that wasn’t assist where he hit Mike Bibby who was cutting underneath the basket. It almost seemed like he was playing a game within a game, trying to see where he could fit passes. I asked him about it, and he said something along the lines of, “It’s just passing.”
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136 comments Add your comment
josh
March 4th, 2010
12:31 am
1st….I LOVE THE HAWKS!!!!!! Season ticket holder that goes to every game unlike most who get on here and gripe.
cdog
March 4th, 2010
12:38 am
we fans have been spoiled by the hawks success over the past teo seasons. sometimes we expect them to win every game.if sund can convince illgauskas to join the team, i wouldn’t be surprise if we see a hawks vs laker or nugget final
J. Blanco
March 4th, 2010
12:42 am
2nd?
josh
March 4th, 2010
12:50 am
im names josh and im a poor fag that has no money and lie about having season tix when im really watch the games wit a stolen league pass broadband subscription
IREPATL
March 4th, 2010
12:52 am
illgauskas is NOT COMING HERE !!!!!!! why are yall still on this dude smh
Ric Roc
March 4th, 2010
12:53 am
josh,
while it’s commendable that you’re a STH, it doesn’t make you anymore of a fan than I, nor anyone else… just count your blessings that you’re able to afford the opportunity. With that said…
Go Hawks!
darrell starks
March 4th, 2010
1:15 am
Great game marvin the hawks need you.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
March 4th, 2010
1:17 am
IREPATL IT NOT OVER UNTILL THE FAT LADY SING, BIG Z WILL BE A HAWK.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Maxx
March 4th, 2010
3:16 am
If Marvin Williams actually starts to show up every night, we are SCARY
tjhook
March 4th, 2010
4:40 am
Marvin, we need you to be more than active. People on your team and on this blog are wanting you to take ownership of your role on this team and that is to be A LEADER!! You were picked second because someone saw GREAT potential in you. A 6′9 player who can dribble and shoot. Watch J.J. Hickson when the Cavs are on TV. Here’s a guy with the same dimensions as you who plays with a sense of purpose. And it doesn’t matter that six, seven of his teammates have extensive resumes. He tries to max his potential while on the court.
Come on, stop acting like a kid and MAN UP!! Take ownership of your position on the club. You are not a support player. You are supposed to be our version of James Worthy!!
Marcus
March 4th, 2010
6:28 am
Great game, keep up the focus. Don’t regress.
thomas22
March 4th, 2010
6:45 am
Go Hawks! That’s the Marvin we need to see. I dont know if you guys noticed, but when Jeff Teague is on the floor he’s even beginning to show a lot more confidence- he drives strong to the basket and is beginning to look more comfortable when he takes a shot (whether it goes in or not…)
Stay consistent Hawks!
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2010
7:15 am
Sautee, from last night:
Joe, I’m baffled. Why does this NEED reconciliation? Do you somehow think that I DON’T think JJ is an All-Star?
My bad, I didn’t realize that you were trying to convince some to “think of Al as an All-Star”. I thought it was about changing a perception of Al’s overall performance this year.
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2010
7:20 am
Melvin, I saw your commentlast night and I was thinking the same thing. Marvin has been channeling the AFRO for a game or two. I know that they were good friends and still keep in touch. I woner if Chill suggested that Marvin fill that void and make those back-door cuts, drive more often and play Afro-Ball? Whatever and however it happened, I like it a lot. Because it is all within the flow of the game.
Another good game from Zaza. Sure, he had his usual moving violation but he has played better in the last few games.
Bibby was red-hot with his shooting and spent most of the 2nd half on the bench. I would have liked to see him get a little more burn and Joe get a little more rest (before the bench came in).
5 out of 6. Nice run.
Ramon
March 4th, 2010
7:58 am
It seems at the trading deadline, without anyone knowing, we traded Marvin for …….Marvin. I feel bad for the sucker who got the old Marvin in the trade lol.
RMan
March 4th, 2010
8:06 am
Ken – While the Hawks are on a win streak against lesser opponents, the animosity in the blogging has slowed down, and MC is away, how about doing a curiosity sidebar “where are they now and how are they doing ” article on:
1. Chills
2. Othello Hunter
3. Sergiy Gladyr
Just to keep our curiosity satisfied for the future.
Thanks
dap01
March 4th, 2010
8:12 am
We are so much better with Marvin playing like tonight. When Joe does not dominate the ball, he and the whole team can be great. Teague is improving, our team will be incredible next year if Teague and Marvin continue to improve and we get a defensive center for the bench.
Section 303
March 4th, 2010
8:18 am
Ken, stop with the “Hawks got lucky because so-and-so was out.” Really, just stop it. This is the NBA and you play with who you have. You always, and I mean always, point out how the Hawks “caught a break” because someone was hurt.
And, really, Elton Brand? What is this the year 2002? He is not quite the threat he used to be.
Why don’t you at least try and give the Hawks some credit. I mean, they were able to make the playoffs two years in a row with Speedy Claxton injured. Other teams were lucky the Hawks didn’t have Speedy.
I would just assume not have a blog if you are going to be the one writing it, Ken.
O'Brien
March 4th, 2010
8:33 am
Good win for the Hawks players and coaches. And the bench got lots of burn last night.
Game ball goes to Marvin. 2 good games in a row. Whatever he is doing, whoever he is talking to, whatever he is eating, he needs to keep doing it, because his production helps us out in different ways.
And he seems to play better when he does the Chills impersonation, as opposed to standing by the 3pt line and missing open jumpers.
If Hawks can go 7-3, 8-2 over their next 10 games, that should keep the pressure on Orlando.
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2010
8:44 am
Ramon, good point. I thought the same about Josh Smith after the first month when he showed himself as a new and improved player. Hawks just need to avoid the Cavs because I am very fearful of their quality depth (especially amongst their big men). So we just need to stay out of that second round bracket and hit our peak around game 70-72 of the season. No need to peak now.
coachx
March 4th, 2010
8:49 am
Hawks are on roll !
So good to see. Time for this city to support them ! Even on the week nights.
KevinA
March 4th, 2010
9:13 am
No gripe, just an observation. Jamal seems to finish all the games that end in a blow out. He is flying around doing the Jamal thing. Wouldn’t those minutes be more productive if we worked on specific plays. Teague to ZaZa or Joe Smith pick and roles come to mind.
Set up plays with Evans and Mario going to the bucket.
I am not sure letting Jamal create his own shot teaches us anything. We already know what Jamal can do.
Daniel
March 4th, 2010
9:17 am
Ramon- I love your 7:58 post. I just hope it is not too premature. I am sure Rod will be by soon enough to dispel any hope that Marvin has made a change. Section 303- Dang, go easy on Ken. I understand the point that the Hawks didn’t get “lucky” with no Brand, but man that was harsh.
BTW Ken, What’s up with MC? Who did you p*ss off at AJC to always be forced to do the fill in duty and get hammered for it?
Najeh Davenpoop
March 4th, 2010
9:50 am
“I think when I stay active, especially when I’m rebounding the basketball, I do a lot better personally and I help the team.”
No sh-t dude.
Clyde
March 4th, 2010
9:51 am
Marvin has to have big games against title contenders for me to believe in him.
FIRE WOODY
Najeh Davenpoop
March 4th, 2010
9:53 am
RMan, you forgot Cenk Akyol.
Daniel
March 4th, 2010
9:57 am
Or everybodys summertime dream boy, Garret Siler!
Ken Sugiura
March 4th, 2010
10:00 am
Ramon – very funny. good work.
settle down, Section 303. Read what I wrote again. I said they got a break with Brand out. Mike Woodson himself said as much. I didn’t say they got lucky.
Daniel – MC is taking a breather after the long road trip. He’ll be back soon. thanks for having my back. I still owe you a t-shirt.
KevinA – interesting point about Jamal. I’ve noticed that, also.
RMan – I’ll see what I can do. Interesting thought.
jg
March 4th, 2010
10:04 am
kevin a,
i think the same thing–why even have jamal out there in those rare nights where we have a big lead. i certainly don’t want him to get injured in gar-bage time.
pretty easy win last night–other than l. williams and w. green the sixers seemed slow all night. i expect a better performance from golden state. they know they can be us with 8–now they have a few more bodies so the hawks need to step it up and put them away before the fourth qtr.
while i don’t think we are better than orlando right now–if marvin continues to play at this level–he brings a new dimension. he was playing this way last until he got injured at the end of the season and he hasn’t been this good since. i think his injury really hampered the team last year in the playoffs more than the inj.’s to joe and al horford.
if marvin keeps his average up around 12-15 pts a night–and we can keep using joe smith, zsa zsa, mo and even teague a little more our bench can and will help us. it may cost us a game here or there–but in the long run it might win us some in the post-season.
finish these last 20 strong hawks and then really crank it up for the playoffs.
jg
chattanooga
Najeh Davenpoop
March 4th, 2010
10:06 am
Brand has been so ineffective as a Sixer that I’d be surprised if he made much of a difference at all. Thaddeus Young fits better with their scheme anyway.
Section 303
March 4th, 2010
10:13 am
Ken, here’s the problem I have…it’s bad enough we have to sit and hear talking heads (ESPN, TNT, etc.) rarely mention the Hawks as a top 4 team in the East. Now, on our own blog, we have to read implications that somehow the Hawks wins are cheapened because the other team had injuries.
Well, the Hawks have had injuries, too, both this year and in years past. I don’t remember anyone crying them a river. And, I don’t remembe them giving the wins back, either. Noah and Deng were out for the Bulls? I don’t care. Brand didn’t play? Don’t care, either. Just like I didn’t want to hear our fans whine when Crawford and Zaza missed the Miami game before the break. Play with who you have.
You are constantly taking the “other team had injuries” angle. You did the same when the Hawks beat Denver in December. Chauncy was out, blah, blah….Ken, the Hawks are a good team, whether you want to acknowledge or not…
fudd21
March 4th, 2010
10:19 am
Najeh, I totally agree on your post about Brand. I was somewhat surprised to even see them make him an offer last year considering he is a halfcourt type player and Philly when they are at their best are running. But I’m glad cause otherwise they may have thrown all that money at Smoove and who knows if we would have matched. Smoove’s contract is starting to look like a bargain right about now.
GET A CENTER NOW
March 4th, 2010
10:44 am
The hawks are content to do the 1 and out because there is no investment of what it takes to reach the next tier. T.S. is right. You cant win a championship when your center is 24th among NBA center in block shots.
GLARING WEAKNESS.
Daniel
March 4th, 2010
11:03 am
Not that it will matter to you truth-serum, but Horford is 20th in blocked shots amongst NBA centers. If you are going to repeat the same statistic over and over for weeks, at least get it right. OK?
Daniel
March 4th, 2010
11:12 am
of course he is also 12th in scoring, 8th in rebounding, 5th in assists and 9th with double/doubles.
Stats are how you package them
March 4th, 2010
11:15 am
If you look at total blocks by centers so far this season Al is at 16th out of 81.
JeJe
March 4th, 2010
11:15 am
Elton Brand was out — OMG we would have lost with him in!
No, Elton fits with Jermaine O’Neal — washed up, overrated, overpaid has-beens who will never be stars again in this league.
OMG Marvin had a 20 pt game! Is this his first 20 pt game since the Houston game 340823 months ago, or his 2nd 20 pt game since his 30 pt outburst against Seattle 3 years ago?
Stats are how you package them
March 4th, 2010
11:16 am
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Blocks.jsp?season=22009&league=00&conf=OVERALL&qualified=N&position=1&splitType=9&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=1&splitDD=All+Teams&pager.offset=0
Sleepy
March 4th, 2010
11:20 am
KevinA- Crawford took one shot the last 4 minutes of the game . The rest were taken by JT0 ,Mo,and Mario. He seemed to be content with the rest of the guys showing what they can do.In the time in between the 8 minute mark when had a 17 point lead and the 4 minute mark he shot two free throws on a loose ball foul .
We always try and run plays for someone else at the end of games but how many times this season has another bench player actually played well enough to get them more touches ? On those occasions similar to last night game everyone gets into the act and everyone gets touches . Jamals job in that situation is to make sure we dont have 3-4 possessions where we dont score.
The last 4 minutes Zaza and Joe Smith were on the bench and it was Collins,Mario,Mo,Crawford,and Teague
vava74
March 4th, 2010
11:37 am
Astro,
I agree that Marvin has made a pretty good Chills impersonation these past few games, however, this was against less than stellar opposition (both collective and individually).
Hopefully he will pick up on that and continue to work the boards and drive to the basket since his mid and long range games are not up to par.
Perhaps if he regains his confidence his shot will come back.
In order for us to have any hope of reaching the #2 seed (highly unlikely) we will need at least 57 wins and for that we need Marvin and Bibby contributing consistently and that no one else falls into a funk.
JeJe
March 4th, 2010
11:41 am
Marvin steps up about once every 25 games. What’s this talk about him stepping up every so often? He is going to go back to his cuckoon and have one good game in the playoffs. Nothing he has done in his career seems to indicate otherwise.
Traceman
March 4th, 2010
12:19 pm
At 39-21, the Hawks have the second best record after 60 games in the HISTORY OF THE FRANCHISE. No Nique-lead team was ever this good at this point in the season. The only team that was better after 60 games was the ‘96-’97 team that was 41-19 after 60. All the Woody haters need to let that marinate for a little while when they talk about how bad he is. Is this team more talented and/or balanced than the teams that Lenny, Fratello, Hubie, et al had?
Ree Roe
March 4th, 2010
12:31 pm
The latest from the Big Z derby:
“Herb Rudoy, Big Z’s rep, sure can spin a funny yarn. Check out what he told the AP: “They told him they want him to come back,’ said agent Herb Rudoy. ‘(Cavaliers general manager) Danny Ferry flew in the other day and met with him, too.’ Ilgauskas has drawn interest from several other teams, including the Atlanta Hawks. Rudoy said Ilgauskas is weighing his options and that the 34-year-old has mixed feelings. ‘He’s got a big emotional investment in Cleveland, in the city and the team,’ Rudoy said. ‘On the other hand, he was not happy to be used as a pawn in the trade. It has not been an easy ordeal. They’ve really reached out to him,’ he said. ‘He loves the fans of Cleveland and I know how much the Cavaliers mean to him. But again, he was not happy to be a pawn. It was really disappointing.’ Rudoy expects Ilgauskas to make a decision by this weekend. Ilgauskas can announce where he’ll play at anytime but cannot sign a contract until March 22.” (from SLAM Online)
Until he resigns with CLE, I still think we have a legitimate shot at signing him.
-REEcreationally Roe!!!
sam'l
March 4th, 2010
12:34 pm
If you;re not the real MC,. who are you? Thanks for the column.
Daniel
March 4th, 2010
12:37 pm
Traceman- very nice post. I didn’t realize that fact. I still would take Hubie over Woody, but still an excellent point.
Ree- Thanks for the update. Although, MC seemed to suggest in the last blog that the Hawks were backing off because it was looking more like a done deal for a return to Clevland.
Daniel
March 4th, 2010
12:42 pm
As far as Ilgauskas goes, I find it strange that a player of his calibre and years of service would be so hurt by this move. Didn’t the Cavs let him know what was going on? I know they can’t publicly have a return deal in place, but c’mon they had to have had prior discussions right? Did Danny Ferry really blindside him with the move? Z certainly seems upset with the franchise. There has to be more to this story.
northcyde
March 4th, 2010
12:42 pm
There have been 10 guys who have averaged a combined 20 ppg – 4 rebounds – and 4 assists over the last 5 seasons ( or at least during their entire career, if they haven’t played 5 seasons yet ).
The elite class in this group, of course, are the Big 3 in the league ( Kobe, Lebron, Wade ). They can actually say that they’ve averaged 25 – 4 – 4 per game. Gilbert Arenas can say that too, although he is by far less efficient player in this group.
The reason people think Tyreke Evans is going to be special ( and why Kevin Martin immediately became expendable ), was that he’s already putting up 20 – 4 – 4 numbers in his rookie year. He’s actually very close to being a 20 – 5 – 5 player.
Tracy McGrady makes this list, but he’s shot a very inefficient 41.7% FG combined in the past 5 seasons.
But like I said, only 10 players in the league make this list. And here they are, sorted according to PPG:
THE ELITE
1) Kobe Bryant: 30 ppg – 5.6 rebs – 5.0 asst
2) Lebron James: 29.4 ppg – 7.3 rebs – 7.1 asst ( the modern day Oscar Robertson )
3) Dwyane Wade: 29.4 ppg – 4.9 rebs – 7 asst
THE “SHOULD BE ELITE” IF HE WASN’T AN IDIOT ON AND OFF THE COURT
4) Gilbert Arenas: 27.1 ppg – 4 rebs – 6.2 asst ( lost almost a full 2 years to injury though )
THE “ALMOST ELITE” BUT LACK A FEW THINGS THE ELITE GUYS HAVE
5) Paul Pierce: 22 ppg – 4.9 rebs – 5.6 asst
6) Vince Carter: 21.9 ppg – 5.5 rebs – 4.5 asst
7) Joe Johnson: 21.8 ppg – 4.4 rebs – 5.5 asst
THE “COULD’VE BEEN EITE” IF HE WASN’T SO BRITTLE AND TOOK SUCH BAD SHOTS
THE POSSIBLE ELITE IN 3 – 5 YEARS
9) Tyreke Evans: 20.3 ppg – 4.9 rebs – 5.4 asst
10) Brandon Roy: 20.2 ppg – 4.6 rebs – 5 asst
That’s it. There’s your modern day 20 – 4 – 4 club.
To see the entire list for yourself, click here ( I reduced the link from basketball-reference.com . . . to a tinyurl link ):
http://tinyurl.com/ykt9dky
Section 303
March 4th, 2010
12:52 pm
northclyde, I think you need to add Kevin Durant to the “Elite” list. He is everybit as good, I think better, than D-Wade. Durant is a superstar. And, as we all already know, Oklahoma City is a team that needs to be reckoned with.
Section 303
March 4th, 2010
12:54 pm
Traceman, according to Ken, most of those Hawks wins should not count because the other team had guys injured. So, think of the Hawks as barely over .500, I guess…
Traceman
March 4th, 2010
12:55 pm
My hope is that Marvin is doing exactly what Smoove did toward the end of last year and that is finding his role on the team. Smoove struggled early last year but he was better toward the end of the season and in the playoffs. I hope that Marvin is doing the same thing.
Marvin HAS played a lot more of the “Chillz role” with his offensive rebounding and cutting to the basket but in addition to that, he has shown the ability to post up defenders, create his own shot and play top notch defense (both team and man to man D) which Chillz did NOT do consistently.
The thing about Marvin’s play of late that has been most encouraging to me is that he has found a way to be impactful on both ends of the floor while making only a couple of shots from the perimeter. In the past, Marvin’s play on both ends was contingent on how well he shot the ball from the perimeter. When he shot the ball well, all aspects of his play was good. When he shot it poorly, the rest of his game suffered. If he can be as good as he has been lately when his shot isn’t falling, I think that bodes well for him going forward.
All of the above said, I don’t expect Marvin to get 21/8 every night on this team because despite his good play of late, he is still our 4th or 5th option at best. If he can continue to play aggressively, contribute on both ends and pick up the slack when one of the go to guys is off, he will make a HUGE difference going forward.
northcyde
March 4th, 2010
12:58 pm
One more thing. When you talk about putting up 20 – 4 – 4 in consecutive seasons, only 5 of these guys have done that for the past 4 consecutive seasons.
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Vince
and Joe Johnson
. . . and those 5 will do it again in 09 – 10.
Kobe, Lebron, Wade and Monta Ellis will all be 25 – 4 – 4 members.
Joe Johnson, Tyreke Evans, and Brandon Roy will make the 20 – 4 – 4 club.
Gilbert Arenas and Chris Paul, who saw their seasons cut short, will also make the 20 – 4 – 4 club this season.
Vince and Pierce won’t make the 20 – 4 – 4 club this season.
So for this year, only 9 guys can say that they did this for the entire season.
Daniel
March 4th, 2010
12:59 pm
nice post nothcyde-
I’ll bite what do you think are the “things lacked” by Pierce, Carter and Johnson? (I don’t disagree with your impression, just asking)
D.Wade has a championship and Lebron doesn’t. Wade really rubs me the wrong way, I think is lucky to have a ring, because he will fade fast, ala McGrady.
Ree Roe
March 4th, 2010
12:59 pm
@ Daniel, I feel the same way. But I think CLE overestimated his willingness to immediately resign (even tho he can’t sign til Mar 22). I don’t think they envisioned him being so deeply offended, but Z should be. Think about it from Z’s perspective. He’s given his blood, sweat & tears to that team & franchise for more than a decade, only to be traded at the trade deadline. The trade itself should have let Z know that CLE feels they can win without him. Personally, I never thought Z returning to CLE was an open & shut case like the national media or members of this board make it seem like. If it was, why would his agent even entertain other offers from other teams? The NBA already said they weren’t gonna investigate the Cavs & Z for having a prearranged deal set up so it’s not like CLE & Z would have to front for the media about him going elsewhere.
Like you said, there’s more to this than meets the eye & it’s clear Z still isn’t 100% on board with returning to CLE. Hopefully, he really considers coming to ATL b/c we could really use him & we wouldn’t disrespect him like CLE did either.
-REEly on Roe!
Daniel
March 4th, 2010
1:02 pm
Section 303- man, you really took Ken’s comments hard. I am pretty sure he didn’t mean to imply all that you are saying. In fact, he already tried to clarify. What’s up with all the bile? Seems over the top to me.
Daniel
March 4th, 2010
1:05 pm
Roe- I have to assume that the trade caught Zydrunis off guard. That is some really poor work by Danny Ferry. He did accept the buyout though (1.3 milion is still a lot of cheese). Its just weird man. On ESPN, they stated that the Hawks had the BEST chance to sign Z., but they expected him back in Clevland, too.
O'Brien
March 4th, 2010
1:18 pm
najeh,
Imagine if Philly had offered the 5 yr, $82 mil contract to Josh instead of Brand? Would we have matched? And if we did, would we have traded for Crawford and still be willing to give JJ the money it will take to keep him?
I’m just glad Philly went after Brand (which made no sense, because not only was he coming off injury, but he also didnt fit their uptempo style), because Josh is looking like a bargain at his salary.
With Shaq being injured, Z becomes even more important to the Cavs. It would be nice to see him sign with the Hawks, if nothing else just to keep him away from Cleveland.
Ree Roe
March 4th, 2010
1:19 pm
I think the chances are that he does return to CLE, but I think we have more than just a small chance to sign him. His agent used a great word to describe how Z must feel: “pawn”. CLE only wants him AFTER they traded him. It’s unbelievably disrespectful to Z what they’re doing to him in CLE
-REEprieve for Roe!!!
drmaryb
March 4th, 2010
1:32 pm
NORTHCYDE
Fantastic POST @ 12:42 PM. Nuff Said. U. R. Relevant – Simon Cowell-
Ken Sugiura
March 4th, 2010
1:36 pm
hello, all. got back from practice a bit ago. i asked Woodson about Jamal being out on the floor at the end of blowouts. basically, what he said was, there aren’t a lot of options left if you take Jamal out. He wouldn’t want to put in Collins, for instance, if the other team had a bunch of perimeter guys on the floor.
on ilgauskas, i’d have to think some of what rudoy is saying is posturing to keep other teams interested.
sam’l – this is Ken Sugiura, another writer at the paper who held down the beat for a couple months before Mike was hired. thanks for the kind words.
sam'l
March 4th, 2010
1:41 pm
Oh, KS is not MC. Cool. .
What happened to Z in Cleveland is disrespectful but even he knows he is at the end of a long career and Lebron James is set to bolt if he doesn’t see a banner this year. Z would like to be a champ too. He is probably enjoying his rest, calling his accountant and working out. He’ll be fine when he hears the prolonged applause the first time he’s back.
Whether the Hawks beat Cleveland, Boston or Orlando is dependent on:
1. Desire and confidence .
2. .Creative strategy and ability to adjust..
3. An attitude similar to that displayed in the home game against Phoenix. (never say die)
jean
March 4th, 2010
1:49 pm
jamal needs to bad his stats for 6th man its enough that he got robbed of a all star spot……it makes end of game worth watchin who wants to see mo evans jack a shot every play who ever told him he is a scorer lied to him he is a damn bum
jean
March 4th, 2010
1:49 pm
pad
theZaZaguy
March 4th, 2010
1:52 pm
So Marvin does well against weak teams… I personally think he will do as well against better teams, but even if he doesn’t his efforts are very valuable. On nights like last night, Joe, Bibby, and Crawford (the three older guys on the team) can cruise. Even though they play 30 minutes, it’s an easy 30 minutes. With the wear and tear of the season it’ll pay dividends when the playoffs come around.
Section 303
March 4th, 2010
1:56 pm
Daniel, I just get annoyed when the Hawks don’t get the credit they deserve. Ken has constantly gone out of his way to discredit wins because the other team has an injury. I’m just tired of it, that’s all.
Not the most important issue in the world today, but been with this team for a long time now (like many others on here) and now the Hawks are a good team, they should not have to apologize for winning games.
My last comment on it for today.
theZaZaguy
March 4th, 2010
2:00 pm
I really enjoy garbage time minutes. I yelled out “Hey Super Mario! Get another dunk like in Chicago!” and he looked over and then tried to oblige. Unfortunately it didn’t happen, but I think he was happy to be appreciated.
northcyde
March 4th, 2010
2:03 pm
@ Section 303. I know Druant is elite . . . as a scorer. There’s no denying that. I’ll have to add Carmelo Anthony to this list as well, if I were using that criteria.
But my focus was on the guys who are scorers and can create for other people.
****************
@ Daniel
With JJ, it’s his inability to draw fouls when going to the hole. Part of that is the refs fault. But the other part of that is that he doesn’t go to the hole to seek contact, when the team needs points. Those elite guys will plow right into a guy if need be, to get to the line. JJ relies on his fantastic floater when going to the hole. While he should still get more foul calls from the refs, JJ’s style of play doesn’t see him get to the line a ton of times, like those elite guys.
Up until this year, it would be fair to say that compared to those elite guys, that he was a “soft” player. That’s a characteristic that can be put on just about all off the Hawks, except Horford.
Also, JJ lacks the athleticism that those elite guys have. If JJ had Kobe’s athleticism . . . he’d be a hell of a player to contain . . almost impossible. You can also say that JJ doesn’t have the killer instinct that those other guys have. It’s been better this year, because he’s put this team completely on his back, when the rest of the guys have struggled. But we may have to see more of that from him . . . especially in the playoffs. No way can he go through this year’s playoffs averaging less than 20 ppg and shooting a low percentage from the field. He has to take his game to that next level once late April comes around.
*************
With Pierce, it’s really his lack of athleticism that keeps him from being elite during his prime . . although he was damn close to it. Those top 3 guys are freakishly athletic. Pierce, like JJ, has to rely more on his basketball skills than his athleticism, to get the job done. Other than that, Pierce had all of the “elite” attributes, other than athleticism. If he could’ve played with a better player than Antoine Walker in his prime, he may have been considered elite.
*************
With Carter, it’s always been his lack of “heart” and leadership abilities. He definitely had the basketball skill and athleticism to be elite. But to me, he never had the “heart” to be elite. The elite guys come up big in pressure situations, and it always seemed like Carter would wilt under pressure. And don’t get me started on his “softness”. Next to T-Mac, he may have been the softest star player I’ve ever seen.
O'Brien
March 4th, 2010
2:04 pm
I remember a couple seasons ago when Woody said he played JJ tons of minutes because he knew how important it was for JJ to get this 3rd straight all star appearance. Along those same lines, I think one of the reasons he leaves Crawford out there is to give him the opportunity to pad his stats.
Because even if the opposing team has gone perimeter, (assuming it’s a blowout either, winning or losing), then he can go with Teague, Mo Evans at SG, Marvin, ZaZa and RandMo to finish the game.
That being said, I’m okay with leaving Crawford out there, although if the game is already decided, you would like to see him chilling on the bench. I’m just afraid of Crawford getting hurt during mop up time.
The Truth
March 4th, 2010
2:21 pm
I think it was cruel and unusual punishment for the coach of Philly to leave his starters and star player (AI) in the game when the Hawks had blown them out with at least 4-3 min left on the clock. Most teams would clear their bench at that point. That’s a sign of a bad coach. He is damaging the psyche of the team. Perhaps this explains their record.
drmaryb
March 4th, 2010
2:24 pm
Things that. Make U. Say ……mmmmmmh:
1. Why Did BOOZER Bolt to UTAH after verbally agreeing to RE-SIGN w/ CLEVELAND?
2. Did he Smell a RAT in the Front Office?
3. Is Danny – Boy Ferry a MOLE in Negotiations?
4. Big-Z was there to see the Business – Side of the NBA! So is he REALLY on BOARD?
5. Does he TRUST Danny – Boy?
6. Will LeBron stay a Cavalier? – After all he is a “KING”!
7. Is there any HONOR amongst THIEVES?
8. Will “Z” follow the Money & Bolt to the HAWKS? & Why NOT make CLEVE. Pay for talking out of both sides of their NECKS! 1st. SHAQ 2.Then the trade for Jamison 3rd. Now SHAQ out for the season!
WHO KNEW – SHAQ was going down?
northcyde
March 4th, 2010
2:30 pm
Truth . . . you need to be following the Philly situation. Iggy has been a non-assertive player lately. Eddie Jordan wants him to take his game to the next level, but it looks like it’s not going to happen. Iggy looks like he simply doesn’t have the skill set to make the jump from good player to star player. He played a lot better in February, than he did in January. But Philly needs for Iggy to be THE GUY . . . and he’s just not responding.
He’d be a great “Pippen” to one of these elite players. But as the main guy? Nah . . . that’s just not him. His jumpshot prevents him from being as such.
Section 303
March 4th, 2010
2:42 pm
northcylde, I got it…didn’t look close enough at your criteria the first time…still, I’ve watched Oklahoma City a lot this year. I become a bigger fan of Durant everytime.
You know, despite all the pub he got as a rookie, I am thinking he is a tad underrated these days. He still gets some attention, but not like other players.
drmaryb
March 4th, 2010
2:42 pm
1. For the 1st time of his Career? The whole world is wondering what will “Z” do NEXT? & He is under
The SPOTLIGHT!
2. How will he RESPOND?
I believe it will be based SOLELY upon whether he knew Up-Front @ the TRADE DEADLINE moves.
3. IF he pulls a BOOZER in Cleveland – then we will know “Danny – Boy” is a MOLE & a SNAKE!
Just like Kevin McHale was in Minnesota & COLLUSIONS may cause THE – COMMISH to
Take away a DRAFT-PICK!
Mmmmmmh. Can U Ironically – Say … JOE SMITH? Wouldn’t that be a 360 – (Only if “Z”
Joins JOE SMITH in the “A”?
A TALE OF TWO – CITIES!
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2010
2:47 pm
Brand’s signing was obviously a risk, but the GM felt like a running team was not likely to do much long-term in theplayoffs. I don’t recall them getting out of the first round with Cheeks and that running squad (although I could be wrong). If you don’t have a decent half-court game, your playoff success is extremely compromised.
On a slighted related matter, I thought that Iguodala looked pretty awful last night. His coach had mentioned a lack of internal leadership the night before. I don’t know if he was sulking or if he was just tired but he didn’t play with the same high energy that I’m used to seeing. I was never a big fan but at least he usually was good for playing full-speed at all times. Last night, he looked disinterested to me.
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2010
2:51 pm
Section 303, Durant won’t be underrated after this season. You can bet that the Thunder will be featured in plenty of naionally televised games next year. He will surely be cast as “the next big thing” and he deserves that billing. His talent is off the charts. And it helps that he has a really good group of players surrounding him.
The Truth
March 4th, 2010
2:58 pm
northcyde
I agree relative to the elite players listed, AI is certainly not one of them. But relative to Philly’s team, he is their star player.
Section 303
March 4th, 2010
2:58 pm
Astro Joe, I agree. Oklahoma City is quickly becomming my 2nd favorite team. If I’m one of the top teams in the west, I would rather not play the Thunder in the first round. The Thunder will put up a fight. Would love to see them spring an upset.
O'Brien
March 4th, 2010
3:02 pm
Truth, northcyde
I remember reading that the Suns were interested in trading for Iggy and Dalembert, using Stoudemire and Richardson I think. But Philly didnt want to have to deal with Stoudemire and Brand
@ AJ,
Another reason they chose Brand over Josh is probably because Josh was not showing the all aound skills he’s displaying right now, whereas Brand was supposed to be a 20 and 10 every night.
Oh well. Their loss was the Hawks gain.
drmaryb,
I remember the Boozer signing. The Cavs could have kept him under contract at a cheaper rate, but they thought he would sign a long term deal with them, so they did not pick up his option. Instead, he bolted for Utah. The Cavs front office said he double crossed them. He said they had no prior discussions, so it makes you wonder whats going on there…
I like Durant and Westbrook’s game. OKC should continue to get better, especially if they add one solid free agent
Melvin
March 4th, 2010
3:06 pm
Random thought. Since Lebron sent in his paperwork to have his number change (23 to 6) for next season, wouldnt that be an indication that he may stay in Cleveland. Uh, there’s no need for him to do the paperwork if he switch teams in the offseason. Just a thought..
Sautee
March 4th, 2010
3:26 pm
northcyde,
Since I gave you crap about loving Joe’s game overmuch, then I’ll have to give you props for saying this about him:
“No way can he go through this year’s playoffs averaging less than 20 ppg and shooting a low percentage from the field. He has to take his game to that next level once late April comes around.”
True dat.
Glad to see you with that kind of perspective.
Daniel
March 4th, 2010
3:30 pm
northcyde- I think that was a pretty fair breakdown of Joe, Pierce and Vince. I would say that the verdict is still out on Joe, because as you mentioned he has been improving in several of those areas. I do think getting foul calls is essential for Joe to be more effective, but ultimately it is going to come down to playoff performance. He needs to have a big run to move up in the standings.
The Truth
March 4th, 2010
3:31 pm
OB
This article supports your point
Sautee
March 4th, 2010
3:31 pm
If any of you saw the replay when Shaq got hurt by Big Baby, it was eerily reminiscent of Chuck Hayes slap-down on Al. We’re very lucky that Al didn’t go down for the year. That could have been disastrous. Well for the Hawks and most of the fans, anyway. I can think of at least one who would have celebrated.
Section 303
March 4th, 2010
3:32 pm
Sautee, let me refer you to last year’s game 7 with Miami…Joe did pretty good that day, I think.
He shows up when we need him.
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2010
3:33 pm
Ensemble cast during the regular season… ensemble cast during the playoffs. If you expect shot sharing during regular season, don’t look for a “leading actor” during the playoffs. Hawks need ALL of their top 4-6 guys ready to ball during playoffs. And the coaching staff to be at the top of their game, too.
drmaryb
March 4th, 2010
3:35 pm
TROUBLE IN PARDISE?
THE JET -Is having EYE SURGERY .. FACIAL INJURY last nite after collision w/Corey Brewer!
First SHAQ & now TERRY?
All the Hawks gotta do is Stay HEALTHY & if Marvins keeps playing well & if “Z” comes to the
MONEY – HAWKS …. Mmmmmh? Look Out! BTW – JJ will RESIGN!
Great POST – OBRIEN!
Rod from College Park
March 4th, 2010
3:40 pm
Traceman,
“Marvin HAS played a lot more of the “Chillz role” with his offensive rebounding and cutting to the basket but in addition to that, he has shown the ability to post up defenders, create his own shot and play top notch defense (both team and man to man D) which Chillz did NOT do consistently.”
You are joking right. A Chills role? Marvin has two good games back to back against Philly and Chicago (without Deng and Noah). Let’s not go overboard. This is how a professional small forward in the NBA should look. This year we have played 60 games and I honestly remember Marvin being above average in about 5 to 10 of those games. He has shown the ability to post defenders in 2 games huh. The Chicago game they were checking him with Kirk Hinrich (6′4). I guess if you can post Kurt Hinrich, you have made it in the league. In two games he has defended the likes of Hinrich, James Johnson, Thad Young and Rodney Carney. That really makes him a top notch defender huh. These last two games prove to me that all this nonsense that you guys talk about how many shots Marvin gets, is just that, nonsense. If he proves to his teamates and his coach, that he can make shots, they will get him the ball. The comparison to Josh last year is comical. Josh, even when he has bad games, makes plays. Marvin turns invisible. I never got a chance to respond to your last post concerning how much better of a prospect Kevin Durant was than Marvin because for some reason none of my responses would post on this blog, so here we go. Here are some projections for Marvin prior to the draft.
Summary: Williams is Insider’s No. 1-ranked player in the draft. He’s a versatile forward who can play both inside and out. Still developing but has the trappings of a superstar.
Member of the underclassman all-star game at the 2002 adidas ABCD Camp. Terrific talent and ultra versatile. He can certainly play both forward positions. Not as tall as Drew Gooden but shares some of the same traits that made Gooden a star. Has such an incredible feel for the game. Super touch from all over the court. Has a presence about him that will make him a star.
Marvin Williams went second in a draft that included the likes of Bogut, Darren Williams, Chris Paul, Andrew Bynum, Danny Granger, Charlie Villanueva, David Lee, and Nate Robinson all drafted in the first round. Durant went second in a draft which included Oden, Horford, Conley, Jeff Green, Noah, Thaddeus Young, Aaron Brooks, Rudy Fernandez, and Al Thorton. I don’t think I would be wrong in saying that Marvin’s draft was more talented as there are 3 all- stars with Granger who is probably one of the best SF in the game, and Bynum and Bogut were on the verge of all-star consideration. Durant’s class has Durant and Horford (all stars), Noah right on the verge of all star voting.
People get upset at Billy Knight for not drafting Paul or Williams, but my beef is that if a long small forward with handles and an overall game was what you wanted, then trading down to get Granger at 17 would have been the play. No way then or now that you work out Granger and Marvin, in terms of skill or talent, and you choose Marvin. The only advantage would have been potential (upside).
I really would like Marvin to play up to his potential and become the star that he was supposed to be. It would only help the Hawks down the stretch and in the playoffs, but nothing in his basketball history in Atlanta, gives me reason to get excited. He bascially became a supporting member of the Hawks team the last 2 games and stopped riding the bus for free. Lets all hope that he does not go back into his invisible man role as he has done for most of this season.
Sautee
March 4th, 2010
3:43 pm
Sec 303,
Sure he did, and I praised him at the time. But overall, you’d have to say that his postseason results are less than we hoped for $70 million and 2 #1s. And I’ll throw out the stats from CLE series (when he was hurt) and STILL be overall disappointed.
That said, I STILL want him to re-sign with us. And I have a lot of faith that he wants to make up for previous post-seasons this year.
Clyde
March 4th, 2010
3:45 pm
FIRE WOODY
Melvin
March 4th, 2010
3:55 pm
Rod from CP,
Something tells me that folks have been anticipating your arrival for the past 24hrs…lol
Ken Strickland
March 4th, 2010
3:56 pm
Part of the reason JJ doesn’t draw many fouls when he goes to the hole is, like Marvin, he’s a vertical jumper and can’t go hard to the rim and elevate off one foot. That’s why you see him shoot a lot of runners and finger roll type layups when he gets into the lane. Unless he has both feet under him, he can’t attack the rim or the DEF player hard, or dunk, and we all know he can dunk. That’s also why all of his dunks are with 2 hands and with him directly under the basket, never when he’s attacking the basket.
The reason he doesn’t look as clumsy as Marvin does driving to the basket is due to his outstanding ball control and handling ability. Also, has anyone else noticed how Smoove’s scoring and FG% has been far better lately? Have you also noticed how it’s corresponded with his increased use of the glass when going to the basket? Before, he shot everything at the rim, and a lot of those shot attempts were rather weak and often fell short.
When he learns to pull up when denied a close shot at the basket, jump high and bank it off the backboard, he’ll become virtually unstoppable. Now that Marvin is starting to improve his OFF, I’d like to see him use that running hook he develop and used so successfully last yr.
Westurd
March 4th, 2010
4:07 pm
JEJE,
If Marvin steps up every 25 games, then he will be primed to make an impact in a playoff game……..
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2010
4:08 pm
Rod, so if his 2nd contract didn’t re-set Marvin’s forecast, will anything provide that new evaluation based on real data? Or should someone also be judging Joe Smith’s validity as a former #1 a decade or so later?
JeJe
March 4th, 2010
4:21 pm
Good job Westurd – you are very good at repeating what I say
ME: “Marvin steps up about once every 25 games. What’s this talk about him stepping up every so often? He is going to go back to his cuckoon and have one good game in the playoffs”
YOU: “If Marvin steps up every 25 games, then he will be primed to make an impact in a playoff game……..”
Some of you people really lack brain cells
O'Brien
March 4th, 2010
4:24 pm
JJ’s playoff average is very similar to his regular season average. I just dont know if 20, 4 and 4 will cut it in the playoffs.
That being said, AJ is right. Regardless of what JJ does, we will need major contributions from 4-6 players, and Woody.
Rod,
In Marvin’s defense, most media and publications had him in the top 2 (based on potential), so it wasn’t just Billy Knight. The problem for the Hawks, is that they had other forwards, and we really needed a PG. BK ignored CP3 and Deron, so 5 years later, here we are, and PG is our biggest issue again.
So far, Marvin has not lived up to his contract. But with 2 good games in a row (regardless of the opponent), I’m hoping (for the sake of the Hawks), that he will continue to play like that. If he can average close to 15 and 8 from here on out, that will do wonders for the Hawks, and Marvin’s confidence.
And if he can average close to 15 and 8, his contract would be very good value.
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2010
4:54 pm
Assuming that the NBA season lasts 5 months and Marvin is signed for 5 years, then he is signed for 25 months. His “struggles” have so far lasted 3 months… just to put things in perspective.
Lastly, when asking for Woody to play his bench more, you have to be willing to watch some of the starter’s numbers shrink. If the Hawks average 102 points with little bench play, don’t expect 117 points with more bench play as the starters score at the same rate and the bench gets love additional scoring. The math doesn’t quite work like that.
Hawk fan
March 4th, 2010
6:09 pm
Long time reader, first time poster. Have been wondering something for a while but haven’t seen anything mentioned about it or this or any other Hawks blog…. But what is the deal with Morris? Is he still on the team?
KevinA
March 4th, 2010
6:53 pm
You can also say that JJ doesn’t have the killer instinct that those other guys have
Are you kidding me? He takes more shots than anybody on the team and many of them in a crowd.
“No way can he go through this year’s playoffs averaging less than 20 ppg and shooting a low percentage from the field. He has to take his game to that next level once late April comes around
20 pts is fine as long it is efficient points. What kills us are his 30 pt nights with 25 shots. Killer instinct only works if your making shots.
Let JJ get 18 pt’s on 10 shots and play great D is a better dream.
KevinA
March 4th, 2010
7:09 pm
Hawk fan
Morris is the 13th man. Only 12 can be suited up for any one game.
Rod from College Park
March 4th, 2010
7:11 pm
Astro Joe,
No, but his last contract was somewhat based off of his first contract due to the amount of money he was already making. You can keep acting like #2 in that draft means nothing now, but it actually means everthing. If he was not such a high draft pick he would not be starting, Chills would still be here, he would not have gotten an extension for 5 years, or the amount of money that he got. He got more money than Ariza and Artest based on what? He is not, or was not a better player.
O’Brien,
As I have said before, because I enjoy reading your post, please don’t hold you breath waiting on Marvin. I would hate for something bad to happen to you. It’s been 5 years, how much longer do you plan on waiting? Remember it was the shorthanded Bulls, and Philly. Before anybody says it, I would expect that a professional level SF should have a decent game against Golden State who plays no defense, and has no legitimate SF, if Maggette is out. Let’s talk after we play some playoff level teams, and see if Marvin can keep his own man from roaming and helping on defense.
Melvin,
two games, and he is the best thing since sliced bread. If they want to crown him, then crown him. I won’t. I’ve seen this movie before.
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2010
7:12 pm
KevinA, I agree. Joe scores about 21% of the team’s points thus far. Lebron and Wade are around 27-29% of their team’s points. Joe also takes around 5-6 bases points fewer shots per game (as a percentage of the team’s total shots) as those other guys. Or said differently, they score more in part because they shoot more.
We’ve already seen peolpe attempt to compare Joe with those other guys. So unless there is support for Joe taking more shots per game in an attempt to be more Wade-like, then there is truly no need to suggest that Joe should be scoring like those guys (and no I did not read that statement TODAY, but I suspect I will read it in a few months).
The ensemble cast is on pace to win 50 (or more) games. No one should expect some type of evolution to a “Joe and the Pips” design when the playoffs start. All for one and …
Dan
March 4th, 2010
7:13 pm
Hey…not to be rude or anything but Im guessing you never sent me the shirt that I won?
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2010
7:15 pm
Rod, he got more moeny because he got a deal from his previous team. Artest and Ariza opted to go to different teams who could only offer the MLE. He received an offer based on 15/6 production and being 23/24 years old.
Rod from College Park
March 4th, 2010
7:43 pm
Astro Joe,
You mean 14 and 6. He got more money because our GM bid against himself. He had no other offers. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. The Hawks lost. Can’t hate on the man for having a good agent, but anyone with two eyes, besides some people in Atlanta, knew that he was not worth that kind of money. Any coach who has any common sense would know not to reward a guy who can’t play at the end of the game for you. Marvin won. I was saying that after his rookie year, last year and still say it. By his numbers this year, and my eyes I would venture to say that I was right. We would have done better signing Matt Barnes.
northcyde
March 4th, 2010
8:03 pm
If it’s one thing that JJ MUST DO in the playoffs, is keep us in the game when we’re on the ROAD.
At home, our complimentary players are going to play better. On the road, it may be a different story. When that happens, JJ ( and Crawford ) really need to be on their game, seeing that they’re the 2 guys most likely to create AND MAKE their own shot, and the 2 most likely to have monster scoring games.
What I like most about JJ’s game this year, is that he’s had some MONSTER games on the road. He’s not shying away from putting this team on his back, to try to win on the road. Unfortunately, despite JJ’s monster efforts, we’ve managed to lose a lot of these games. Whether it be because of bad defense, an inability to close the game out, or bad shooting by the rest of the Hawks, we’ve lost these games.
But the fact that JJ has had huge games on the road @ Portland, Dallas, San Antonio, LA Lakers, Cleveland, Boston, Chicago, Oklahoma City, and Utah, tells me that this dude may be in the right mindset come playoff time. His focus, to me, has been sharper on the road, than it has at home this season.
Hawks are 6 – 3 at home . . and 1 – 8 on the road . . the past 2 seasons in the playoffs. And those 8 losses, for the most part, were UGLY. So that’s what I want to see JJ do in the playoffs.. Turn those ugly road losses into winnable games. If he can do that, maybe we can steal a few of them.
Sam from da Swats
March 4th, 2010
8:59 pm
Here we go…I’ve read comments about Marvin. I’m glad he had TWO good games. Please people with the MARVIN IS BACK. He was never anywhere to be BACK! If the guy gives us any games like that consistently, we’re unstoppable. I don’t have the confidence that will happen because all I can go by is his career and he has been mediocre and inconsistent. Don’t get your hopes up people!
Section 303
March 4th, 2010
9:19 pm
Marvin has all the tools, though. He just needs to play with more of a chip on his shoulder, I think. Need to have Kirk Hienrich guard him more often.
Marvin needs to find his angry place and be there for gametime.
JeJe
March 4th, 2010
9:23 pm
Marvin will go back to being invisible now. He had his 2 good games. He will no longer be angry and will fall down without being touched on his own accord
Section 303
March 4th, 2010
9:28 pm
We’ll see JeJe. I think you’re probably right, though. Marvin has too many games where he is just a nonfactor. He really does not do anything good or bad. He is just kind of there.
The guy has loads of potential, if he could ever put his talents together all the time. I at least can see why he was so highly thought of at the ‘05 draft.
KevinA
March 4th, 2010
9:41 pm
Marvin was mired around .400 FG%. He is now at .442. Jamal who we all love has dropped to .447. I mention that just for some perspective. All this “Marvin is back” is nuts. Marvin is just back to being Marvin. I do not expect or wish Marv to score a lot of points unless he does it from the line attacking the basket. I would suspect that Marvin is and will get a couple more attempts is because his minutes are on the rise as Bibby’s are going down. Which is a good thing. If we can get 12 pt’s out of Marvin at .450 and a couple more free throws – all we should expect. I really don’t want to see Marvin taking 13-17 shots per game. 10 shots and 3-4 drives is more realistic.
ZaZa is the guy we should be talking about. He is the guy we need to get on track. In the playoffs he will be much needed to spell Al and Josh. He has played a little more and done a little better the last few games. I think we need to play him a little more. As mentioned I would play him with either Al or Josh and as much with the starters as much as possible. ZaZa and Joe Smith together will not work against the best teams. 15 min a game is just a small adjustment to keep Al and Josh fresh. But please split those minutes playing with Al and Josh.
Ree Roe
March 4th, 2010
9:52 pm
The spirit of MC’s last blog is still lost on some of yall. Marvin has clearly struggled this yr, but instead of embracing his recent performances some of yall are still harping on his inconsistencies. I didn’t wanna believe it, but this blog is full of cynics & kno it alls. We’re the #3 seed in the East & in the midst of our longest winning streak since mid-January & the only talk is about our negatives. Yea we can improve & certain players can get better, but damn. If I didn’t frequent these blogs I’d swear the Hawks were the Nets this yr…
-fREEdom for Roe!!!
Melvin
March 4th, 2010
10:07 pm
The worst kept secret.
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/03/04/ilgauskas.cavs/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2
Traceman
March 4th, 2010
10:30 pm
@ Rod,
I knew you would show up sooner or later with your nonsense about Marvin. You are such a hater. If you truly think that Marvin was ANYWHERE NEAR the prospect that Durant was, you simply can’t evaluate talent. Period.
It doesn’t matter who else was in the draft, Marvin was drafted AFTER Andrew Bogut. Do you think ANY GM would have taken Bogut ahead of Durant? Oden was being called the next Shaq by most of the experts and POR STILL thought long and hard about taking him over Durant (even if Oden could stay healthy, it looks like they messed up). Durant was PROVEN talent with upside. Marvin was just talent with upside.
You don’t see that Marvin played well last year because you don’t want to see it. The numbers he put up last year are better than what your boys Artest, Ariza and Barnes are putting up now. Heck, his PER is better than all 3 of their’s NOW and he is having a down season.
As for Chillz, I would LOVE to have him back because he was great at slashing to the basket, he was crafty around the rim and he handled the ball well for his size. He is a solid all around player. However, he is not as good offensively or defensively as Marvin. Marvin can do everything that Chillz can do and a whole lot more. That is the reason Sund paid Marvin and not Chillz. Heck, Flip nearly made people forget about Chillz last year.
14 and 6 from Marvin for the rest of the season would be GREAT because there are so many players on this team who need touches. If Marvin increases his output to 14 and 6 though, somebody’s ppg are likely to go down. Hopefully, that will just make us a more balanced team who is tougher to defend.
Obviously, Woody and Marvn’s teammates know he can play. Woody reportedly called Marvin to the “principal’s office” and the talk apparently did Marvin some good (who says Woody can’t coach). He told Marvin that he had to elevate his game back to the level it has been for the last couple of years (obviously Woody thought he played well last year too). Al said “It feels good to see Marvin be Marvin. Hopefully, he keeps this level of intensity up.” Obviously Al thinks he can play too.
I think Marvin will play better from here on out. Expecting him to average 19/9 like he has over the last two games is not realistic if you expect the other players to maintain their average statistical output but as long as he continues to have a positive impact on the game, I could care less about his stats. Go Marvin and Go Hawks!
Astro Joe
March 4th, 2010
10:34 pm
Melvin, I wonder what is considered a “suitable contract”. Sounds like Z is looking for something that goes beyond the next few months. Because the Cavs (based on the CBA) are fairly limited in how much they can spend this season. So the agent must be negotiating for some love beyond the current season.
Where’s Raef LaFrentz?
Traceman
March 4th, 2010
10:35 pm
@ Kevin A,
Exactly right. Marvin is just back to being Marvin. Not a superstar, just a good player who fulfills an important role on a good team. You know, a team that has the 2nd best record in the history of the franchise after 60 games.
HawksFan11
March 4th, 2010
10:37 pm
Amen KevinA, Amen
O'Brien
March 4th, 2010
10:44 pm
AJ,
To Rod’s point, one reason Marvin got the contract he did (~$7.5 mil per) is because that was his salary cap slot based on his salary and raise from being the #2 pick.
If Marvin was picked #17, I dont think Sund would have given him a 5 yr $37.5 mil deal right away. I think he would have waited to see what the market is (just like he did for Chills), or offer Marvin something less (thats my opinion).
But Marvin is still young, and he still has over 4 seasons to go, so he still has time to turn it around (although I will not hold my breath).
Watching the Heat game, Artest is playing defense on Wade most of this quarter. Hopefully Marvin can step his game up (defense and offense) to be that Bruce Bowen type that Melvin or nire talks about.
Traceman,
“However, he is not as good offensively or defensively as Marvin. Marvin can do everything that Chillz can do and a whole lot more”.
I dont think we are debating what Marvin can do and can’t do. The problem with Marvin is he doesn’t do it often enough. Too many games, he disappeared and had no impact, whereas Chills would have a key offensive rebound, a key basket down the stretch, and his defense was fine.
That being said, if Marvin can give us 15 and 8, and play good defense, I would be thrilled with that.
Traceman
March 4th, 2010
10:46 pm
Watching the Heat/Lakers game. Glad to know that the ATL isn’t the only place with fairweather fans. TONS of Laker “fans” in American Airlines Arena. 90% of those clowns have never been to LA and they were wearing Shaq and D Wade jerseys when the Heat was the best team in the league.
Melvin
March 4th, 2010
10:49 pm
What dumb coaching exhibit in the Heat/Lakers game by the Heat Coach. 11 sec left and you let Kobe walk the ball up the court and he dribble to the spot on the court uncontested and hit the game tying shot. With 3 secs left the Phil Jackson (10x champion) decide to run 2 and 3 defenders at DWade and force him to take and missed a difficult game winning shot. Just stupid coaching… SMH
Traceman
March 4th, 2010
10:55 pm
@ O’Brien,
YOU may not debating what Marvin can and can’t do but Rod is ALWAYS debating that. I don’t think anyone is debating that Marvin has not played well this season and that his consistency needs to improve. I WILL debate whether or not he played well last year though as I think he was good for most of the season.
15 and 8 from Marvin while playing good D would thrill you? Seeing as how Smoove gives us 16 and 9 while playing good D and he is arguably our MVP, I would hope so.
Traceman
March 4th, 2010
11:00 pm
@ Melvin,
I was thinking the same thing. That’s Kobe freakin’ Bryant!
Melvin
March 4th, 2010
11:01 pm
Astro,
I saw the suitable contract comment as well. I’m not sure but I wonder if they can sign him to a multiple year contract at this point in the season. I guess one of our CBA experts will have to answer that question…
Melvin
March 4th, 2010
11:02 pm
Traceman,
Bad coaching. Aint no way I would have let Kobe walk the ball up the court uncontested…
KevinA
March 4th, 2010
11:02 pm
Great Heat/Laker game. Wade imploded to allow the tie but both teams playing great. Heat win.
KevinA
March 4th, 2010
11:12 pm
No way Marvin does 15 pt’s a game unless JJ/Jamal/Al or Josh go down to injury. I would like Marvin to get more rebounds. My question is? Is Marvin coached to get back on defense or is primary job is to crash the boards. Good question for Ken or MC. If boards are his responsibility like with Larry Brown = huge disappointment. If he is to get back on defense = understandable.
Any insite that I missed? Players are coached in roles. What is Marvin’s role on defense and offense when it comes to rebounding according to Woody.
KevinA
March 4th, 2010
11:20 pm
As a follup on Marvin’s rebounding I sense Marvin’s job is to get back and not hang around the basket. We seem to to like ISO by any player and their job is to clear out leaving Marvin and the guards getting bk. Do you agree or disagree?
I think this style of play is to protect Bibby and Jamal. If our guards defended well we could add Marvin to the crashing the boards. I have suspected this but we don’t discuss it
Your thoughts?
Grandad
March 5th, 2010
1:34 am
Traceman: (I’m late arriving)
Just got here. I appreciate your defense of Marv. I’ve Attemted it myself a couple of times. Usually when I defend him, it’s as if I’m
Marv’s personal jinx. He’ll go out and stub his toe.
However, in your 10:30 PM post when you said:
“(who says Woody can’t coach)”
on that staement you lost me.
Instead of calling him into the “principal’s office”
after 60+ games and telling him he must elevate his game; why has
the HC ‘not’ been coaching him ‘up’ all season!
This is to, [in my opinion] also consider that the HC misuses his talent. I really like the young man, but Wdsn has done him no favors!
Grandad
March 5th, 2010
1:39 am
attem[P]ted – I type like Wdsn coaches… neither one’s worth a ‘P’.
Idiot Watch
March 5th, 2010
5:10 am
I wonder how many idiot and talking about irrelevant stats like playoff road record and historic matchups. I wonder how many pitiful idiots actually think the Hawks can advance past the second round with out a center.
How foolish.
Continuing Idiot watch…..
The Bubba Crew seems to think that Doc Rivers is a “great” coach and Woodson is a “bum”. Then why does Woodson always seem to get that Asss, with less talent,when the two meet up?
Yeah, right.= !
KevinA
March 5th, 2010
7:34 am
Idiot Watch,
At this point we are down to what we got and how best to utilize it. The trade deadline has passed. You wanted a center upgrade, others wanted a Marvin upgrade. Some like me considering all the factors of money wanted a cheap 5th guard other than Mario. The fact is – it is what it it is. Lets do reality and after the playoffs continue the discussion.
KevinA
March 5th, 2010
7:37 am
All I want to do is beat the Warriors. If we win or lose we can continue to discuss our warts. I just need a win.
O'Brien
March 5th, 2010
7:39 am
KevinA
“No way Marvin does 15 pt’s a game unless JJ/Jamal/Al or Josh go down to injury. ”
I disagree. In the first quarter of many games, Marvin gets a couple open looks early (including open 3s from the corner). If he can make those shots from early on, I think he will get more minutes during the game, especially with Bibby struggling.
Marvin would be the recipient of more PT especially in the 4th quarter if he makes his shots more consistently, because he is a way better defender than Bibby, and would allow Woody to play JJ, Crawford, Marvin, Josh and Al down the stretch.
Section 303
March 5th, 2010
7:50 am
Idiot Watch, somewhere in your last post there was a coherent thought, I guess….If you’re watching for idiots, why don’t you go find a mirror?
KevinA
March 5th, 2010
8:24 am
O’Brien ,
Marvin is not JJ, Jamal or Josh. If he misses his first two the well of good intentions will dry up quick. Have you noticed how Bibby’s well has dried up.I hope your right and he plays well.
Westurd
March 5th, 2010
8:27 am
BURN!
HAWKSFANFOREVER
March 7th, 2010
9:13 am
Well Josh everybody don’t the money! Just cause go to their games you think you’re a bigger fan or somethin? I watch ALL at home with frontrows seats BoO!! HAhahaaha LMAo. Naw let me stop I’m Just mad that we lost to Miami last night.
HAWKSFANFOREVER
March 7th, 2010
9:22 am
Why Yall Keep Saying Woody’s A Bum? He’s Not I Mean You Win Some You Lose Some. Cut HIm Some Slack 40-22 This Year, And Can Be Better By The End Of The Season. Now I See If He If We Were A Below 500 Team, But We Aren’t. That’s When You Can Call Him Bum.