Late Hawks Squawks: Hawks 106, Bucks 102 (OT)
– The bottom line is the Hawks turned back a tough, scrappy opponent that came in a hot streak and avoided losing two straight at home for just the second time this season. “We all gutted it out,” Jamal said. “It was definitely intense and very physical out there.”
– So the bottom line looks good. Some of the other lines were ugly, though: 5 of 18 shooting in the fourth quarter, including 2 of 9 for J.J., 0 for 3 for Jamal and no shots at all in 11 minutes for Smoove.
– Basically, here’s how it went: bad Iso-Joe and the Hawks faltered, good Iso-Joe and they won.
– Fourth quarter Iso-Joe: fadeaway airball, missed 3-pointer, missed fadeaway, missed runner and the missed pull-up at the regulation buzzer. Overtime: 3-pointer, fadeaway jumper, baseline fadeaway, and a missed 21-footer.
– “When you get another chance you always want to come through,” J.J. said. “I wanted to make plays in that overtime to get us over the hump.”
– He shot 7 of 22 in regulation, 3 of 4 in overtime. “He’s going to have games like that,” Josh said. “We had to keep riding him to see if he could get going. He was making tough shots and tough moves on his guy. When he’s like that, we’ve got to keep giving it to him.”
– It worked out in the end because J.J. really is a very good one-on-one player even when a strong guy like John Salmons is up in his face. But the Iso approach contributed to the familiar no-ball-movement, poor-shot-selection formula that has hurt the Hawks late in games. They are a combined 16 for 54 (29.6) from the field in the fourth quarter of their last three games.
– At least the Hawks played some fourth-quarter D this time. After the Bucks shot 50 percent through three quarters, the Hawks held them to 6 of 17 in the fourth. As usual, the tighter D led to offense: six points off turnovers and seven fastbreak points in the fourth for the Hawks.
–The Bucks scored the first five points of overtime and it felt like the Mavericks all over again. “We knew what we had to do,” Jamal said. “We look at the Dallas game as a fluke. Our record in the last few minutes of the game is actually outstanding.”
– “Milwaukee has been hot lately but we were able to get the win,” Josh said. “It’s nice to have a win to get our confidence back. We just need to tighten it up on the defensive end and share the ball offensively.”
– I’m guessing at least four of Jamal’s 11 misses were forced. He’s now shooting 26 of 84 (31 percent) in the seven games since the All-Star break. He says the shoulder only bothers him when he drives to the hole. So it’s got to be that he’s just in some kind of funk right now.
– But he did have four assists and a steal against just one turnover. And, as he was sure to point out, he made his free throws.
– Nice D by Horford on Bogut on Milwaukee’s last possession of regulation. He held his ground against a bigger opponent who was determined to get to the basket. It’s how the Hawks had to play the Bucks in a game where officials allowed roughhousing.
– “We couldn’t back down,” Smoove said. “We didn’t take any mess. That’s how you’ve got to play when a team hits you in the mouth.”
– “It was a fun game to be on the court,” Zaza said.
– Stackhouse looked spry while scoring 10 points in the first quarter and eight in the fourth. He was interested in joining the Hawks last summer. Think their bench and locker room would benefit from a pro like him?
– Salmons has really made a difference for the Bucks. Because he went for 32 points they still had a chance to win with Brandon Jennings scoring just three points. But Salmons couldn’t stop Iso-Joe in the end.
– Question: How do you make Iso-Joe develop even slower? Answer: Stop the clock and have shook game officials who don’t notice for at least five seconds.
– “I’m watching the clock tick down so I can see when to go and it just stopped,” J.J. said. “I was thinking it would start back, but it didn’t. It was frustrating, but it happens.”
– Yet another complete game from Smoove: 22 points, 15 rebounds, six assists. Take away those times he thought he was a point guard (five of the team’s 12 turnovers) and he was nearly perfect. “I’m letting the game come to me,” he said. “I’m playing well for the team. I’m not rushing anything. When the opportunity presents itself, I’m seizing it.”
– Woody played Zaza and Mo 14 minutes each, Teague seven minutes and Joe Smith six. It wasn’t always pretty but the bench crew pretty much kept the Hawks in the game during their stints.
– The Hawks play at the Bulls Monday night. “It’s going to be hard playing a back-to-back against a good team but we should feel good about ourselves,” Zaza said.
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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117 comments Add your comment
niremetal
March 1st, 2010
11:55 am
Melvin,
First off, I think the Hawks made a mistake signing Rio instead of Stack, assuming Stack was interested. From the team’s perspective, the decision couldn’t have been about the money because Rio and Stack cost the team exactly the same out-of-pocket since the league reimburses teams that sign vets to minimum contracts. I think Stack would have been a better 10th/11th man than Rio.
But second, why is it a lie for Todd to say the Hawks wanted him? “Well documented?” You mean Stack said it twice, therefore it must be true? Did you ever notice what O’Brien indicated here and on the other blog – that Redd’s season-ending injury guaranteed Stack MUCH more PT in Milwaukee than he could ever hope to get here, where he would be the 5th wing in a 3.5 wing rotation? Stack would have had to resign himself to a good number of DNP-CDs and garbage time minutes if he came here. So calling Jim Todd a liar is just your way of complaining, once again, about the Hawks not signing a player that YOU think they should have signed while ignoring the possible reasons that player may have logically preferred another team to ours.
As I said, I would rather have Stack than Rio, and if the Hawks had the chance to sign Stack but chose Rio instead, they did wrong (and since Stack was still a FA when we released Othello, that’s quite possibly how it went down). But stop acting like you know what happened. “Liar” is too strong a word to use by someone who has no idea what the hell happened.
Michael Cunningham
March 1st, 2010
11:57 am
@granddad: as others have noted, Woody believes good defense and rebounding leads to points in transition. as far as halfcourt, in defense of Iso, he has said that the goal of any play is to get the ball in his best players’ hands in good position to score so why run a bunch of screens when J.J. and Jamal can get their own shot? so that’s his philosophy as far as i can tell.
@ Astro re: buyouts . . . yeah, looks like still not much in the buyout bin. Hawks might have been interested in D. Gooden but he’s staying with Clips. so Sund will wait on Z.
@everyone asking about Stack: i wasn’t here when all that went down but from what i hear Hawks basically thought J Smith would be a better fit than Stack on and off the court. Stack was interested but the Hawks never reached out. again, i wasn’t here, but that’s how i hear it played out.
@ daniel re: Z . . . who knows what he stands to gain by waiting. the league’s not going to do anything anyway so not sure why the agent would still be trying to give the illusion there was no prearranged deal. his agent hinted that he was upset about the trade. or maybe Big Z really is thinking about it. all of this uncertainty is why i can’t ignore the story. unless you know Z and talk to him it’s hard to figure what’s going on. heck, Joe Smith knows him and talked to him and he still doesn’t know what’s going on, said Z is still kind of shocked by the trade.
@jlewis: dude, simma down. i have answered pretty much every single question you just asked in previous posts (except for J.J.’s kneepads). so stop trying to punk me and improve your reading comprehension. matter of fact, i just did a story and a blog on the defense and rebounding problems yesterday. but i guess when Hawks shoot 5 for 18 in the fourth and hold the Bucks to 6 for 17 i should focus on defense again. i keep track of Iso-Joe because that was the big controversy when i started (and still is if you watched the game last night), so i wanted to actually try and track it instead of just making assumptions based on perception (like you do). more than once i’ve gone over the reasons i don’t track everything else so, again, pay attention.
as for J.J.’s kneepads: he gets ice on the knees after most games. whenever i ask him about it, he says it’s just the wear and tear of the season. it’s not uncommon to see around the league this time of year.
Lacsho
March 1st, 2010
11:59 am
Daniel- The Hawks have an Offense issue. Every game they go scoreless for 7-12 minutes. Woodrow needs to call a timeout or sit someone down during this stretch. Furthermore, during this stretch the big’s get limited touches. Commonsense tells a player to get it inside after missing jump shots for 7-12 consecutive minutes.
Melvin
March 1st, 2010
12:04 pm
Astro,
Mark Blount or Franciso Elson would be the bigs I would go after if Tony Battie doesnt get bought out. And I would sign Larry Hughes with the 15th spot….
Clyde
March 1st, 2010
12:10 pm
One of the biggest mistakes Sund made in the offseason was not resigning Flip Murray.
FIRE WOODY
GeeMack
March 1st, 2010
12:13 pm
Daniel
I think Crawford shoulder is a bigger concern than he leads on.
However I think Josh’s increased play over the last 8 games has made it less noticeable, but it is a big issue with playoffs approaching.
I also think there needs to be a shake up the starting line up. Defensively the Hawks are getting killed on the pick & roll with quick hitting point guards.
I love what Bibby brought to the team 2 seasons ago, but his productivity has dropped drastically this season. I’m not sure if it’s the ankle or what, but he is nowhere near the same player he was last year.
What you think?
thomas22
March 1st, 2010
12:15 pm
Lasacho-Great post! Maybe someone from the Hawks will see it and consider doing it….
If you notice last night in OT when we went inside, JJ hit a nice jumper from about 8 ft because the defense had to react because we attacked the basket before shooting the jumper.
GeeMack
March 1st, 2010
12:22 pm
O’Brien
You’re correct 4th quarter scoring has been a problem for a while, but how do we fix it.
These long droughts without a FG is getting old, however I thing a line up change may inject life into this team in the fourth quarter.
Lacsho
March 1st, 2010
12:25 pm
Thomas22-
Milwaukee’s coach didn’t hesitate to insert the bench after the starting squad was struggling. Woodrow needs to do the same. Our starters are two comfortable b/c they know Woodrow would never bench them.
STRETCH
March 1st, 2010
12:31 pm
Thomas22 and Lasacho,
You both had great points. And as you can see thats why they lost the last 4 games against OKC, Dallas, PHX and GS. Elite teams will withstand another teams runs with a star player making a play or even a role player making one. Also, the Head coach has be able to use his starters effeciently and recognize when to call TO and get the guys together and re-group…somethin Woody refuses to do.
PHX and OKC, those games were dog fights from the begining, but there is absolutely NO excuse for the Dallas and GS losses. This season is like having a terminal illness…its just only a matter of time before the ultimate happens. 2ND ROUND AND OUT.
Hopefully looking forward to next season, some things to hope for:
1. new coach with a clue
2. Josh Smith matures
3. a PG with speed and a shot
4. Marvin gets the ax
5. GET A BIG MAN!
Traceman
March 1st, 2010
12:31 pm
Daniel/O’Brien,
No doubt Crawford’s struggles are a HUGE reason we are struggling in the 4th quarter. For a significant stretch of the season, the:
Bibby
Crawford
JJ
Smoove
Horford
lineup has successfully closed out games because Jamal has been so deadly in the 4th. The D was not great but it didn’t matter because Jamal was so dang good. However, now that he is struggling to score, the defensive liability of having him and Bibby on the floor to close out the 4th is being exploited.
Jamal is shooting 31% overall and 26% from the 3 pt line since the All Star break while Bibby is shooting 33% and 28% respectively. You simply can’t win consistently when you are a perimeter-oriented team and your backcourt is that bad.
Last night, Woody decided to go with Marvin down the stretch while sitting Bibby. I honestly didn’t care who sat last night between Jamal and Bibby because they were both struggling but if he had stuck with both of them playing down the stretch, I think we would have lost.
Marvin was by no means great yesterday (hard to be great when you only get 5 shot attempts) but he had a solid game and he contributed a lot of things that didn’t show up in the boxscore. The team defense in the 4th quarter and OT was a LOT better with him on the floor.
Bottom line is that if Crawford and Bibby are scoring, I have no problem with Woody staying with them but if they are clearly off (as they have been since the All Star break), he needs to go with Marvin for defensive purposes in the 4th and at least make it tough for the other team to score.
PS – I also liked the fact that Woody went offense/defense down the stretch in OT with Jamal and Mo. Jamal let Ridnour go right around him for a layup before that move but after that, MIL got no more layups or uncontested shots. He needs to do that more often. Mo did a good job defensively on J Kidd in the 3rd quarter of the DAL game. I wish Woody had come back to him late in the 4th because nobody else on our team seemed to be able to stop him.
Daniel
March 1st, 2010
12:38 pm
Alright, MC, then take off your reporter hat for a minute (this being the blog portion) what is your gut telling you about Z? I know it is not based on any inside knowledge, I would be curious to hear what you think. From the outside looking in, last week just seemed like the “going through the motions”-type stuff until he resigned with Clevland, but now it just seems well….odd. Thought?
jlewis
March 1st, 2010
12:39 pm
Cunningham:
No need for me to simmer down, I’m not upset. If it’s my ability to comprehend, I have no problem in that area. I pay attention that you pay attention to what you want to.
Traceman
March 1st, 2010
12:40 pm
DecDawg,
If you don’t think that JJ spends a SIGNIFICANT amount of time guarding the other team’s best perimeter player (and he has done that since he got here), then I have no idea what you have been watching.
Yes, our defensive philosophy involves a lot of switches on screens but the guys are still responsible for guarding a specific player on each possession. In addition, in JJ’s case, he actually fights around the screen more than any other player on the team.
O'Brien
March 1st, 2010
12:40 pm
Thanks for the responses MC,
I share the opinion that if we had to choose between Joe Smith and Stackhouse, Joe Smith is the better fit. However, the question is why not Stackhouse instead of Othello Hunter?
@ Traceman,
Good points.
@ GeeMack,
I wouldnt mind seeing a lineup change either. However, you would be hard pressed to find a coach who will change their lineup with only 20 something games left. Also, the team is still #3 in the East, so any coach would not want to make a drastic change this late. And thats understandable.
@ Lascho,
Woody will get on his players during a timeout sometimes. But overall, when our starters do something wrong, all Woody does is stand there and glare at them. When they’re struggling, he just waits for them to stop struggling.
We talked about the players not listening to him when he preaches defense and rebounding, so maybe they are tuning him out on offense sometimes too.
jlewis
March 1st, 2010
12:42 pm
Oh, sorry, you didnt answer all my questions because you didnt address the Smoove and shots question I posed to you. I want your opinion on how do we get Josh “shots” so the Hawks don’t go 11 minutes without him touching it, do we go ISOJOSH?
Melvin
March 1st, 2010
12:46 pm
Nire,
Look like MC beat me to it. First, notice MC said the Hawks reach out to Stack (conflicting to what Todd said). Secondly, Hawks had a chance to sign Stack in the offseason and during the season prior to Redd getting hurt. Third, Stack said publicly he wanted to play for the Hawks so spectulating about playing is irrelevent. And who’s to say Stack would have been on the bench had he proving himself to effective on the court?
Daniel
March 1st, 2010
12:46 pm
Gee- I really like Traceman’s breakdown of the 4th quarter situation. I don’t know how shuffling the starting line-up really affects anything unless the coach is just trying to send a message, what matters is who is playing down the stretch. Bibby is clearly having a down year, his minutes are also down, but I would still give Crawford and him minutes in the 4th to see how the shot is falling. Bibby played great against Dallas. I know Kidd ate up everybody, but I thought Bibby actually handled their pick and roll better than Josh or Al or Joe, who were the ones who kept getting caught out of position. Ultimately, how does a coach affect a veteran’s stroke? I mean they either got it or they don’t, and we all have to hope that both Bibby and Jamal get back down the stretch. I do like have Marvin on the floor for defense when Jamal is not shooting well, but that is tough too, because for a guy like Jamal his next hot streak is only one shot away.
The issue that I think should be addressed at this point in the season is the decrease in our team defense. The guys keep getting caught out of position, there is not a lot of help(except Josh), just not seeing the whole “taking responsibility” for each other that we were earlier in the season. That’s what needs to be addressed for me. The 4th quarter scoring? Either Jamal and/or Bibby’s shot gets healthy or we will be in trouble down the stretch.
ligf
March 1st, 2010
12:48 pm
woodson = fired coach walking
Daniel
March 1st, 2010
12:50 pm
Melvin- going back to Stack, I don’t think it was about money, because were he to have signed for the vet min, like Joe Smith, the league pays most if not all that salary.
Daniel
March 1st, 2010
12:52 pm
I think the Hawks (Sund? Woodson?) had an issue with his personality. I think they didn’t think he would fit in well with the team and be willing to be 3rd behind Crawford and Evans off the bench. Just a guess on my part.
Ken Strickland
March 1st, 2010
12:55 pm
JM-I also caught that comment, and it supports a contention that I’d made before, and got jumped on for mentioning it. WOODY LOVERS didn’t like hearing me say that Woodson’s irrational and inconsistent use, misuse and/or underutilization of his bench, especially his veteran players, might come back to bite us. It just might be a matter of Stackhouse wanting to come here until he got an offer from a team with a HC that has enough intelligence, guts and appreciate for the value of having and utilizing his bench.
Joe Smith refused to resign with Cleveland because of the way they refused to utilize him just prior to and during the playoffs. Then he comes here and gets all but ignored during the entire regular season, while hearing public comments from Woodson about how he’ll be utilized more during the playoffs. Our fool of a HC then said he hoped they understood the situation, even although he admitted he hadn’t mentioned anything to that effect to any of them.
Daniel
March 1st, 2010
12:57 pm
Also, Stack sat out most of the season, so it wasn’t just the Hawks who passed on him, every team did. So it makes you wonder if he wasn’t asking for something more(i.e. role) during the off season that scared off most teams. He got humbled and took the Bucks offer. You would have to say the Bucks have made some nice moves with the addition of Salmons and Stackhouse, but having low expectations tends to overinflate results. They still lost.
J
March 1st, 2010
12:58 pm
I’m with Doc on this one .. Coach D, it isn’t fair for the people who paid more to have fans from the upper levels come down and sit next to them. The Ushers are doing their jobs, as they are instructed to do, which is to make sure people are sitting in the right place. I had somebody sitting in my seats a few nights ago, b/c i have aisle seats and got there a bit late, and i was not happy at all. The people then looked at me as if i was the person in the wrong.
And there are really good specials out there for people to sit closer. Sunday Night was a Kids Night, which meant half-off seating to those that had kids with them. If you are a coach, you should have done your scouting on the front end about ticket pricing before complaining and blaming the Hawks for you not getting better seats (or trying to sit in seats that you didn’t purchase). There are a few secrets to getting better deals, make sure you do your homework!
J
March 1st, 2010
1:00 pm
Oh, and Woodson needs to go!!! I get tired of hearing everyone use iso-joe but its the only “play” he runs come crunch time. Then again, Joe is our main go-to guy, similar to Kobe/D-Wade/Lebron getting the ball in crunch time.
Astro Joe
March 1st, 2010
1:09 pm
Melvin, I’d take Mark Blount but not Larry Hughes (sub-40% shooter)… I also doubt that Sund will sign a 15th player. Blount is a lousy rebounder but he would at least give us a center who can draw opposing centers wawy from the paint.
niremetal
March 1st, 2010
1:19 pm
Melvin,
Nire,
Hawks had a chance to sign Stack in the offseason and during the season prior to Redd getting hurt.
Yes. And they took Joe Smith instead. Considering that everyone was clamoring for us to sign a big, I don’t see what your point is there. My point was about why we didn’t sign him in Jan/Feb, not in the offseason. MC’s post didn’t address that time period.
Third, Stack said publicly he wanted to play for the Hawks so spectulating about playing is irrelevent.
Funny. Jim Todd said the Hawks wanted him and you called him a liar. Stack says he wanted to be here, and you assume he was telling the truth. Confirmation bias ftw! Gee, it’s not like players ever feign interest in playing for certain teams in order to drive up their market price.
Also, maybe Stack was interested in playing for the Hawks, but decided that since he’d almost certainly get more PT in Milwaukee, he would be even more interested in playing there. Nahhhh…that wouldn’t jive with your preconceived notion that every player in the universe that you like wants to play for the Hawks, and the only reason the Hawks don’t sign them is because the Hawks are cheap/stupid/etc. Confirmation bias ftw!
And who’s to say Stack would have been on the bench had he proving himself to effective on the court?
Uh…because Woody’s rotations don’t seem to correlate with who does well on the court.
DecDawg
March 1st, 2010
1:31 pm
Traceman…By the way other teams best perimeter players have been posting big numbers on us (since he got here), your theory that he’s the defensive man guarding them makes him look worse. None of the guys I mentioned have trouble scoring against JJ. And if not for Josh hanging around in the paint, their numbers would be even better.
But I have to admit that you did not say he was acting as a defensive stopper…you just said he was the one guarding them. And for the record, Marvin draws the toughest matchups on a regular basis.
niremetal
March 1st, 2010
1:32 pm
On that note, MC – any insight into why the Hawks signed Mario instead of Stack in January? According to my Google searches, we waived Othello on Jan 5 and signed Rio on Jan 12; Stack didn’t sign with the Bucks until Jan 18. You showed up at the AJC right in the middle off all that jazz, so I know you were still probably trying to get your bearings, but do you have any idea how the Hawks decided to go after Rio instead of Stack (or instead of keeping Hunter, for that matter)?
JeJe
March 1st, 2010
1:41 pm
Hawks game last night was painful to watch. I almost wish we had lost.
Our starters’ legs are dead.
Woodson doesn’t use the bench
We are playing 3 on 5 with Bibby and Marvin starting
Woody won’t adjust rotation
Season is over
JeJe
March 1st, 2010
1:46 pm
SIGN MICHAEL FINLEY
WE SHOULD’VE HAD STACKHOUSE.
DO NOT LET HIM GO TO BOSTON OR CLEVELAND
Lacsho
March 1st, 2010
1:47 pm
O’BRIEN- this statement was on point: Woody will get on his players during a timeout sometimes. But overall, when our starters do something wrong, all Woody does is stand there and glare at them. When they’re struggling, he just waits for them to stop struggling.
We talked about the players not listening to him when he preaches defense and rebounding, so maybe they are tuning him out on offense sometimes too.
As a coach everyone should be fair game when it comes Criticism
Melvin
March 1st, 2010
1:53 pm
Nire,
Did you missed this statememnt by MC “Stack was interested but the Hawks never reached out”. Hawks had no intention of signing the guy. So timeframe has nothing to do with him signing with the Bucks.
terrell
March 1st, 2010
1:57 pm
Doc, one of the assistant Coaches said last night that we tried to get Stack to come here.
Fresh
March 1st, 2010
1:59 pm
Question?
With Shaq missing the rest of the season…do the Hawks really need to go out of the way to sign Big Z?
Melvin
March 1st, 2010
2:00 pm
Nire,
One more thing. I said since the begining of the season that I felt the Hawks needed another wing player. Preferably someone who could play SF. So If Todd said they wanted to bring in Stack that I guess they see a need for another wing player as well…. Bring on Larry Hughes…
Melvin
March 1st, 2010
2:01 pm
*If Todd said they wanted to bring in Stack, I guess they see a need for another wing player as well.
terrell
March 1st, 2010
2:06 pm
Joe Smith over Stack? Wow! How bout Joe Smith AND Stack? Cheapos!
Daniel
March 1st, 2010
2:06 pm
Fresh- Absolutely, if for no other reason than keeping him away from the Cavs would hurt them. But, he would clearly give our bench an upgrade.
Daniel
March 1st, 2010
2:09 pm
terrell- I am pretty sure that not signing Stack was a money issue. The vet min. is mostly paid by the league, not the team. I think that they had concerns about his attitude and how he would mix in with a young team that was still gaining maturity.
doc
March 1st, 2010
2:09 pm
terrell read stack’s comments, they never reached out to him. hmmmm would he lie or does the assistant really know what the gm does?
geez, they didnt even bring him to camp to compete terrell. many of us were dumbfounded as he had dominated in pick up games here among the hawks.
Daniel
March 1st, 2010
2:12 pm
nire- If you think Stack chose the Bucks over the Hawks because of PT or the coach, then you don’t think very highly of Stackhouse’s decision making ability. The truth is the Hawks (along with every other team) were not that interested. The reasons are clearly not about playing ability but off the court/ locker room issues.
Ree Roe
March 1st, 2010
2:15 pm
In case most of you didn’t know, the Spurs released G/F Michael Finley today. I’m not even gonna get my hopes up & expect the Hawks to use our sizeable midlevel exemption on the veteran guard, but I would at least hope the Hawks prove me wrong and acquire veteran depth we can use.
Maybe it’s just me, but does anybody find it interesting that Big Z hasn’t resigned with CLE yet? Maybe he remembered that they did trade him, did bench him this season & did not allow him to set the Cavs record for games played at home in CLE this season. They made him set the record on the road. Maybe Big Z is starting to realize how he’s been disrespected by the Cavaliers organization numerous times this season & how much of a tool he’d look by resigning with them. Maybe the Hawks really do have a chance to sign him.
Also, I agree with the frustrations about our iso-insert name offense especially late in games. I just wish Al would get more touches in the paint when we go on our 4-7 minute scoring droughts.
-REEscind it for Roe!!!
northcyde
March 1st, 2010
2:16 pm
FACT: At 33.1 minutes a game, the Hawks rank #10 in the league in minutes played by its starters. The teams ahead of them?
1) Memphis
2) Charlotte
3) New York
4) LA Lakers
5) LA Clippers
6) Washington
New Jersey
7) Chicago
9) Boston
Surprised? You shouldn’t be.
The problem that this fan base flat out REFUSES to understand about our bench, is that for the most part . . THEY . . ARE . . SORRY.
So when you play them extended minutes, you don’t help your starters . . you put the team in a further hole on most nights.
The Hawks starting unit ranks #3 in the league. The only 2 teams ahead of us are . . you guessed it . . LA Lakers and Boston.
At 48% FG, the starting unit for the Hawks ranks #7 in shooting. Boston is #1 at almost 51% FG.
The illusion that is created by a team like Boston, is that they play their bench players at the same point . . together. Very few of the bench mixes in with the starting unit. The reason, is because no one on the bench is as good as the starters. Only Rasheed Wallace is apt to see extended minutes off the bench. Maybe Nate Robinson as well, only if Rondo is having a bad game.
When we try to play our bench together, we get thoroughly outplayed on most nights. Why? Because they’re not that good. We could do like some suggest, and “sprinkle in” the bench with the starters. But doing that takes away some of the Hawks most effective 5-man lineups.
Some of you act like we have this fabulous bench that we can just insert in a game, and nothing negative will happen.
With Crawford struggling late, our bench now ranks #26 in the league. The 42.8% FG that the bench shoots, ranks #26 in the league as well.
You DO NOT REDUCE the minutes of Horford and Smoove, to play Zaza and Joe Smith more in games. Especially not when these dudes aren’t giving you much. Some of you still cry for Teague, but he’s shooting . . . . you know what, instead of just singling out Teague, let me post the shooting percentages of our 6 – 10 guys.
Crawford: 44.7%
Zaza: 44%
Evans: 43%
Joe Smith: 39.5%
Teague: 35.4%
Crawford plays in place of Bibby, and is our super sub. The rest of the team simply doesn’t play even at a consistent level on a nightly basis.
If Zaza plays bad, you can’t rest Horford much, because someone has to play center. You can play Teague, and Woody did go with a Teague – Crawford – JJ lineup for a short stretch in the 2nd quarter ( that lineup got outscored 9 – 4 by the way ).
Some of you need to stop acting like we have good bench players on this team. We don’t.
Everytime we lose a game, people go crazy around here. And you see how crazy people went when Woody left Zaza in the Golden St game in the 4th quarter ( that was a blowout at the time ). So what would happen if Teague is on the floor, and a decifit goes from 2 to 10 points? Oh my bad . . that’s already happened . . a few games ago.
It doesn’t matter what Woody does with the lineup, the bench players simply have to be more consistent. If they aren’t consistent, then we have no choice but to play the starters extended minutes. The bench can’t play together as a unit on most nights, so it’s no way you can get those guys extended minutes to rest the starters like some of you want to.
niremetal
March 1st, 2010
2:17 pm
Melvin,
You’re assuming more than what MC actually said. The fact that he mentioned the signing of JoeS and that he wasn’t around at the time indicates to me that he was talking about the offseason, so I don’t know why you’d assume it also included January – after JoeS was signed and when MC was around. I’ll let him say what time frame he was talking about, because that’s not clear to me.
In any case, you still haven’t said a word about why Stackhouse would choose to come here and be the 5th wing in a 3.5 wing rotation instead of going to Milwaukee and getting 20 minutes a game. It’s sad that you’re so convinced of your opinion on this matter that you apparently interpret Stackhouse indicating that he would be interested in the Hawks as tantamount to him having the Hawks as his #1 choice, and that he would have come here regardless of the PT available to him. As I said, this is typical of you – for players that YOU like and that YOU want the Hawks to sign, you interpret everything that happens so that it jives with that player wanting to come here and the Hawks being too cheap/stupid to make it happen. Therefore, in your mind, Stackhouse’s statement of interest is a firm commitment to come to Atlanta if only the Hawks would offer, and Jim Todd’s statement that the Hawks were interested is an outright lie. Heh. Ok, man.
JM
March 1st, 2010
2:25 pm
KS- I agree with you 100%. I’ve laid off of Woody this year but I’m done. I know we won’t get a new coach, but I hoping Sund is watching this sh__. There is no excuse not to be able to make adjustments, use your bench, call a play when in need of a bucket or call a timeout for that matter. Against Dallas, he let them play on for a good 4 or 5 minutes before calling a timeout to stop the bleeding. Phil maybe able to get away with letting his team “play throught it” but Woodson aint Phil Jackson and the Hawks aren’t the Lakers.
As far as Stak, I still don’t know how to read that. At first vet free agents didn’t want to play here. Now that they do, we don’t sign them (although Joe Smith was a good pick up).
Go Hawks!
doc
March 1st, 2010
2:29 pm
daniel, what were those issues? i thought it was because he had been injured last year and his age. he was a bit untested until he worked out here with our boys who liked him a lot according to sekou.
niremetal
March 1st, 2010
2:43 pm
Daniel,
Not that I see why a player choosing to go to a team where he’d get more PT reflects poorly on his decisionmaking ability, but considering that Stackhouse blew a trade a couple years back by telegraphing the fact that it was a pre-arranged deal does indeed make me not think very highly of his decisionmaking ability.
Oh – and Melvin. The Hawks did sign another wing. His name is Mario. Or did you not read the part of my post where I talked about that and questioned the decision?
To me, it seems the Hawks DID have a chance to sign Stack in January. They chose to sign Rio instead. Signing both would have been useless considering that both are undersized swingmen (like Mo) and we have positions where depth is even more of an issue (read: PG). But my puzzlement is why they would pursue Rio instead of Stack when Stack was available, since the cost would have been the same.
The Truth
March 1st, 2010
2:45 pm
Melvin
I had the same reaction when I heard Jim Todd comments about wanting to sign Stack during that interview after the 1st qtr. It suggested a strong interest in wanting Stackhouse which is a lie, a half-truth or an over exaggeration of the facts. The truth is that Sund did show interest but it appeared to be a “weak interest”. From my fact checking, I found this interview Sekou Smith had with Stackhouse:
THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT STACKHOUSE REALLY SAID
Q: You mentioned a handful of teams that make sense for you. Are the Hawks one of those teams?
A: Sure. And we’ve had a little dialogue with them. They have some interest, but I know they have some other things they’re looking at as well. I have a relationship with [ Hawks GM] Rick [Sund] from back in our days in Detroit, and I’m pretty sure he’ll shoot straight with me one way or the other, so we’ll see what happens.
Notice Stackhouse comments: “little dialogue” and “some interest” and also “they have some other things they’re looking at as well”. These comments do not suggest anything remotely to be a strong interest. Perhaps Stackhouse perceived the half-interest shown and returned the favor with a half-interest to the Hawks. Maybe (just maybe) the Bucks showed a much stronger interest so he was more willing to sign with them.
Without any question, Stackhouse would have been an upgrade over Mo Evans. If Steve Wonder had listened to the game last night, he would have seen that. Also, I was surprised how well he played on defense as well.
This is yet another example of how uncreative Sund can be when it comes to acquiring talent with only Crawford being the exception.
Melvin
March 1st, 2010
2:53 pm
Nire,
Let’s stay with the facts. Stack said in the offseason he wanted to play for the Hawks. It was reported by Sekou then and MC now that the Hawks didn’t have any interest in him. Jim Todd said last night during the game that the Hawks said wanted to bring him in. So I dont know where the fall out lies but I do believe the Hawks had a chance to sign him at some point.