Mavericks at Hawks, AKA Lineups, Perspective and My Big Z Delusions
Brendan Haywood and the new-look Mavs are here. (JOHN F. RHODES/DMN)
I’m going to refrain from talking about how the Hawks can make some kind of statement about being an elite team against the Mavs. I do this mostly because I usually don’t like building up regular-season NBA games too much but also because I’m written out and need to hand off to the Hawks blogosphere. There’s good stuff out there on lineups, perspective, J.J.’s future and my delusions about Big Z.
– Both Hawk Str8talk (get well soon) and Peachtree Hoops are trying to figure out the best personnel combinations for the Hawks.
atl_hawk_luv says put Teague in the starting lineup not just because of the rookie’s speed and defense but because Bibby would help the bench and J.J. could see a “glimpse of his future with the Hawks” alongside Teague. He wants Mo instead of Marvin, too. Whichever lineup you favor, he’s clearly hit on the two weak spots among the starters.
hawksdawgs is “no longer clamoring for bench usage like (he) once was” after seeing the reserves out there as a unit and realizing the Hawks “just don’t have great depth.” But he thinks they have some “decent pieces” on the bench and so asks: “The bigger question going forward is not whether Mike Woodson should use at least an eight man bench. He should. . . . No, the bigger question is how to combine the bench pieces with the starters. What are the best lineups to maximize the skills and minimize the weaknesses?”
Well said. Woody’s struggling with that issue right now.
– Hawks superfan, ATLien and Slam Mag hack Lang Whitaker answers reader email and calls for some perspective. Responding to a reader upset about that mess in Golden State, Lang says he understands the emotional swings: “Perspective and patience aren’t exactly the hallmarks of rabid fans, who are, after all, fanatics. I know that this is a frequent theme I keep hitting on here over and over, but it can’t be stressed enough: The NBA season is a marathon. You lose a game, you have to put it behind you and start fresh.”
Lang also touches on J.J.’s future plans and says something that I need to remember as I keep seeing all these various reports about J.J. favoring this city or that city while I hear nothing like that from people who would know: “The truth is, I don’t think anyone, including Joe, knows what’s going to happen this summer. And anyone who tells you they do know what’s going to happen is lying to you.”
– Over at Hoopinion, Bret Lagree skewers one of my Ilgauskas posts. Lagree dismisses Ilgauskas’ size and experience as irrelevant because he thinks he’s just not very good or useful to the Hawks and also says he’s no longer much of a shooter. (In my defense, I did write way back when: “He once was an offensive threat in the post but has become more of a jumpshooter late in his career. Ilgauskas has slipped to 38 percent shooting on jumpers this season, according to 82games.com.)
Lagree concludes: “I think it’s even more delusional to believe that Ilgauskas would help the Hawks than that he would sign with the Hawks.” Well, then call me delusional because I disagree with him on the former (but have never believed the latter). Even so, I like Lagree’s style (and substance). Keep on skewering.
– After talking to Jamal, I don’t think the shoulder is much of an issue. I think he’s just slumping. He says not to worry, he’ll be fine.
– The Mavericks are quite pleased with that trade. Well, Tim Cowlishaw is at least.
– Caron Butler may not play tonight. If he does play he won’t be chewing on straws and isn’t happy about it. (I used to chew on straws but grew out of the habit.)
– Remember, the game is at 7 tonight after ESPN moved it up.
– Talk amongst yourselves, Hawks fans.
MC
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442 comments Add your comment
Astro Joe
February 26th, 2010
10:05 pm
JJM, I guess you missed our home game against Utah… or is Jerry Sloan NOT a real coach?
FIRE AL W H O R E F O R D
February 26th, 2010
10:06 pm
GUYS LET GET RID OF THIS BUM AND FIND A REAL CENTER.
J.J.M.
February 26th, 2010
10:06 pm
Im still down for the hawks but this is getting pathetic. Im worried about 3 things. Th first is the hawks have a nice or ok lead and the bench cant hold it. Second is why cant we hold leads in the 4th. Third it looks like the hawks have trouble against the zone.
BONE
February 26th, 2010
10:06 pm
Woodson is coming out with a new book everybody it’s called “HOW TO LOSE WINNABLE GAMES” with a foreword by Marvin and Bibby.
hoho
February 26th, 2010
10:07 pm
hawks do seem to wet their pants against playoff type teams in playoff type games- except against Boston. Hawks are pretty good, but they ain’t that good yet. They still seem surprised that they’re in games like tonight, instead of having the killer instinct to know that they belong- see 4th quarter meltdown.
J.J.M.
February 26th, 2010
10:08 pm
“JJM, I guess you missed our home game against Utah… or is Jerry Sloan NOT a real coach?”
you cant compare that game to this. Even the fans were like why the coach not calling a timeout.
Astro Joe
February 26th, 2010
10:08 pm
And I also blame Woody for keeping Jamal out there. I know that he was thinking “Jamal will get it back, Jamal will get it back” (his stroke that is), but when he is shooting less than 33% AND refusing to use all of the tricky dribbling crap to penetrate the lane against the zone AND playing his below average defense… dude needs to have a seat.
That was akin to watching Bobby Cox send Greg Norton up in a crucial pinch-hitting situation. Sometimes a coach’s loyalty is a B!tch!
The Bird and Indian (Reggie)
February 26th, 2010
10:09 pm
I’m usually the one that comes and writes an optimistic novel about how we should still be happy about how far the Hawks have come and that it’s coming together. I’m not doing that tonight. This one hurts a lot. Woody has gotta improve. Joe has gotta find that quickness he showed a few times tonight. Al has gotta finish more consistently against bigger guys. Josh has gotta stop complaining about calls and get back on D. Marvin has gotta step it up. Jamal has gotta improve his shot selection. Bibby has gotta have more games like tonight. There, I’m okay now. Step it up Hawks.
Astro Joe
February 26th, 2010
10:10 pm
JJM, it was EXACTLY like the Utah game at Philips. Are you kidding me?
BONE
February 26th, 2010
10:10 pm
Woodson is coming out with a new book everybody it’s called “HOW TO LOSE WINNABLE GAMES” with a foreword by Marvin and Bibby..
J.J.M.
February 26th, 2010
10:13 pm
Atro I have no idea what you are talking about. All I know is the commentators and fans were looking for a timeout and so was I. Mavs came down and nailed shot after shot. Not good coaching.
A Hawks Fan
February 26th, 2010
10:14 pm
Did you think we didn’t see it the first time Bone?
BONE
February 26th, 2010
10:15 pm
@ A Hawks Fan just making sure lol
The Truth
February 26th, 2010
10:17 pm
Let me repeat (Again), Al Horford will not be able to supplant Josh Smith at the 4 position, therefore he should be trade bait this summer for a (Real) Center. With him having an All-Star season (excluding tonight), we should get good value him.
hoho
February 26th, 2010
10:17 pm
What was that BONE? Post it again please. Book…forward…Bibby…Woodson…confused, please re-post
Astro Joe
February 26th, 2010
10:18 pm
OB, Zaza was not an option in this game. Horford had an awful game… not because of Woody but because of Haywood and because Horford couldn’t keep his composure. But again, good lesson for the playoffs. Horford has GREAT hands but he seemed to fumble a lot of entry passes because he was too worried about how he was going to get his shot off against Haywood (my opinion of course). And we’ve seen Horford do that before. Like a receiver who doesn’t look a pass into his hands because he’s trying to figure out where to run after the catch.
Well, guess what, Horford will likely be playing against bigger bodies throughout the playoffs. Keep him put there all freakin’ game and let him learn how to compose himself and play the game in these situations. Because this team can’t win a playoff series without Horford playing well.
J.J.M.
February 26th, 2010
10:21 pm
I pray we can land Big Z….anyways im headed 2 the ultimate bar and grill yall have a nice one
SIMPDAWG
February 26th, 2010
10:24 pm
It’s funny because it seems as if the Hawks were playing better, this time last year. Don’t get me wrong, these Hawks are a better team than last year squad, but they’re not playing with a sense of urgency right now, especially in the fourth quarter. I think Mike Woodson has taken this team as far as he can.
SIMPDAWG
February 26th, 2010
10:27 pm
J.J.M.: Big Z is in Cleveland with his family and he will resign with the Cavaliers.
Hoops
February 26th, 2010
10:31 pm
Guys,
I usually don’t question decisions by the coaches and I understand that it is easy to point the finger @ the coach when you loose. These are my points to question:
1. I just felt that we did not use our bench enough tonight to at least keep our best players fresher coming down the stretch.
2. I was surprised at our lack of knowledge on how to attack a zone.
3. I was very surprised at our decisions to not call any time outs to stop their momenium when we still had the lead.
4. We continue to have a lack of imagination on offense.
I guess that I’m just flustrated like most of you are.
nunna yo biznezz
February 26th, 2010
10:32 pm
FIRE MIKE WOODSON NOW!!
HE NEEDS TO GO,AND TAKE THE HAWKS PLAY BY PLAY MAN,STEVE HOLMAN WITH U!!
HE HAD TO NERVE TO CALL JASON KIDD A “CRYBABY”,WHEN HE WAS ARGUING ON THE WOODY PLAY..STEVE U ARE THE CRY BABY..
STEVE HOLMANS GREATEST HITS:
“AND THEY CALL A FOUL ON THE HAWKS”!!!!!!!,”THE HAWKS ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO CAN DO WRONG THRU THE EYES OF THIS BUNCH OF OFFICIALS”!!!!,”AND THEY CALL A FOULD ON DOMINIQUE”!!!!!,”JEFF TEAGUE LOSES THE BALL”!!!,”AND THEY CALL A FOUL ON THE HAWKS”!!!!!!!!!!..
ITS TIME FOR THIS HOMER TO RETIRE..TAKE WOODY WITH U..
Ree Roe
February 26th, 2010
10:32 pm
Let me express that I’m an optimist when it comes to the Hawks & I’m passionate about this team, but this loss exposed alot of issues we’ve been blogging about on here since training camp. I’m not even mad…more reflective. We lack depth & good coaching. Our starting 6 is as strong as any…after that we struggle big time. MC, give Woody hell!
-REEcipe for Roe!!!!
bigdave
February 26th, 2010
10:35 pm
Jamal does not to close every game!!!
Harpie
February 26th, 2010
10:36 pm
Kill Mike Woodson!
Astro Joe
February 26th, 2010
10:37 pm
Hoops, I personally didn;t have a problem with the minutes the startes played nor the lack of a time-out. Woody was trying to save them for closer to the end of the game, plus there are some TV TOs built in. He had just put his best 5 in the game with around 7:00 when the Mavs started that run… surely those guys should have been able to get things under control. But I’m pretty sure that Crawford launched at least one if not two bad shots. But I absolutely agree withthe zone issue. That has me really ticked off and I am very anxious to read the quotes from the post-game interviews.
Coach D
February 26th, 2010
10:45 pm
Woody took a charge!!!! The first charge that I’ve seen taken since Joe Smith took one about 2 months ago. I might have missed a few games, i admit. Woody was off the court though, & Kidd is an bush-league, major league a$$! Just my opinion.
SIMPDAWG
February 26th, 2010
10:50 pm
I don’t understand why the Hawks can’t find a center or a post player from the D-league, instead of wasting time and money on a player like Jason Collins. I would rather have a player like Dwayne Jones who can play right now. The Hawks need bench players not bench warmers.
Astro Joe
February 26th, 2010
10:54 pm
I wish we were playing tomorrow evening on the road. I’d love for these guys to be forced to travel together out of town after that loss. They’d either kill each other or come out of it a more unified bunch.
But now they just go to their indvidual homes and complain to someone who barely cares.
Grandad
February 26th, 2010
10:56 pm
I haven’t followed all the posting tonight, however, that bush league
crap from JK tonight caused me to lose any respect I may have had for him. It was the single most bush, sissy, shameful display from a veteran I think I’ve ever witnessed in any sport. The next time the Hawks play Kidd…….well let’s just say in baseball you know where the next pitch is comin’. Then Hubie praises him for high b-ball IQ.
Disgusting! We should sign one of those MMA guys [Herschel] or bring
Oakley or Mahorn out of retirement for one game. It was a cheap shot,
period, case closed. On a normal night I would pick apart our zone offense, but tonight I’m too angry. Kidd crossed the line, not Woody!
JRR
February 26th, 2010
10:58 pm
If you think that Woodson was standing out of bounds, I don’t know what game you were watching! Woodson was on the court and during play a player has the right to go anywhere on the court. Kidd doesn’t have to explain to anybody why he wanted to go to that particular spot on the court and it doesn’t matter if he ran into Woodson on purpose or through out his elbow to initiate the contact. It was a smart play by Kidd and the call was a no brainer for the refs.
Ken Strickland
February 26th, 2010
11:01 pm
ARE THERE ANY WOODY LOVERS OUT THERE STUPID ENOUGH TO STILL BELIEVE WOODSON IS COY MATERIAL? Dallas switched to a zone, and Woody had absolutely nothing to offer other than stand on the sidelines(hell, he couldn’t even do that right) with arms folded and hope we hit some of the long range jumpers we consistently hoisted.
Astro Joe
February 26th, 2010
11:02 pm
Mark Bradley is chewing on that Kidd-play bone. I hope that MC comes strong with quotes regarding our poor performance against the zone defense. That’s why we loss the game, not because of a fluke call involving Kidd and Woody.
JRR
February 26th, 2010
11:25 pm
By the way, Woodson has since said that he was on the court! Idiot!
Ken Strickland
February 26th, 2010
11:37 pm
ASTRO JOE-Are you and Woodson sleeping together? The gm went into overtime, which means the score was tied at the end of regulation. If your boy/girlfriend had kept his ignorant ass off the court, they wouldn’t have gotten that point from that technical foul shot, and the gm would have ended with us winning by ONE(1) point, moron.
We have 36 wins, and for us to win 55gms we’d have to go 19-6 over our last 25gms. Ironically, 19-6 has been our best overall record this season, so I went back to that point to see how we’ve done since then. Well, we’ve gone 17-15 over those 32gms, and some still insist on believing Woodson is doing a good job and the team is doing just fine.
The way this team has played and Woodson has coached over the last 32gms, what are the odds of us finishing the season winning 19 of our last 25? Before the season started, we predicted what our overall won/loss record would be. So, lets predict what we’ll do down the stretch and what our final won/loss record will be. The way we’re playing now, we’d be hard pressed to win 50gms.
Truth-Serum
February 26th, 2010
11:47 pm
The Truth, I have to agree. Al is about as good as he gets. Lets sale his sorry azz while he has ” Allstar” laughably attached to his name. He will never be the complete power forward Josh is. Josh hasnt peaked but is rising and will one day live in triple double land!
It makes all the sense in the world to get the what we can for Al right now. Hell never supplant Josh and hell never be defensive enough to be a center.
Trade bait?
Whats his worth on the market now?
Truth-Serum
February 26th, 2010
11:48 pm
*get what we can for Al
Grandad
February 27th, 2010
12:04 am
JRR:
Please tell me that when I said:
“Kidd crossed the line, not Woody!”
You did not take that as a literal statement and surely you uderstood that I was making a play on words.
Also, if you just called me an idiot, then sir, you have crossed
the line. Plese sir I hope that you comprehend my invective.
In the future, if posters/bloggers, resort to wit, puns, allegory, satire, sarcasm, metaphors, or simile please don’t sink to name-calling just bacause you can’t keep up. Darn, there I went and dangled my participle again. The next time I wish to express my vituperation
toward an ass or a referee (there I go being redundant and repetitive),
please allow me to cross that line. Thank you ever so much.
Have a good evening.
Grandad
February 27th, 2010
12:11 am
K.S.:
rich brave inferred the other day that you have a coaching background.
Curious? I know t-syb is lurking. Someday, I’d like to share philosophy.
atlLady
February 27th, 2010
12:14 am
Just got home from the game, and that was a helluva game. But that being said I can not believe these guys sometimes. Mike woodson you are AWFUL!! You looked perplexed by the zone, so of course you could not help these guys break it. But really JJ, Mike, AL you played significant college ball, and what high school kid does know you attack the zone and make their “big” men stop you.
Why did we not treat that little mouse like my neighbor does his son in the driveway. What’s with the fade away and of balanced jump shots over the little guy.
Woody does burn the hell outta the starters, but if you are gonna do that why keep Josh on the bench for 4 minutes while you stand there with your arms folded in your daddy’s suit. When you watch coaches from other teams they seem to be constantly working but all he does is give these guys the evil eye.
This switching defense crap is bogus. What amkes him an awful coach us THERE ARE NO ADJUSTMENTS. Remember the pick and roll, it works. And if anyone thinks they didn’t give outta gas is fooling themselves. I sit in section 119 and watching these guys on the bench they were spent.
No bench production? Play them. We just played Minnesota, and Collins and Love are so much better than at the beginning of the season, they play.
Sorry guys Woody has reached his peak, he did not learn much from Larry Brown.
Josh you keep playing man, don’t care what any of you think he leaves it out there. Come on Hawks! You got my support as a true fan and Season ticket holder
Grandad
February 27th, 2010
12:23 am
I can spell, I just can’t type! Plese be aware bacause it annoys me.
JRR – that was self-deprecation. Just so you would know.
Ken Strickland
February 27th, 2010
11:30 am
ATLLADY-Woodson learned plenty from LBrown, but he’s on a mission. The HC’s that have had the biggest impact on his career are Bobby Knight and LBrown. Both are known for their success and style of coaching. How often have you heard the phrase, THAT’S A LARRY BROWN OR BOBBY KNIGHT COACHED TEAM. Well, Woodson wants to have the same thing said about him, so rather than incorporate what he’s learned from his 2 mentors, he’s trying to separate himself from the two and establish his own legacy or identity.
The problem is, he just doesn’t have the knowledge, flexibility, confidence, mentality, recognition, vision and/or ability to effectively evaluate and utilize talent, or design his own effective OFF/DEF systems. His ego and insecurities won’t allow him to turn certain responsibilities over to his assistants or allow him to have an OFF coordinator type assistant.
What’s funny is the same assistant coaches which he accepts limited input from, are the same ones he seemed to value so highly that he prevented teams from contacting and interviewing them for jobs a while back. You will never hear him say anything positive about how well CP3 or DWilliams have turned out, since he berated their ability to perform at this level just before they were drafted.
Since everyone knew we needed a PG, and he didn’t want a rookie PG runnning his team no matter how talented, he put them down as a way of saying, THIS IS WHY I’M NOT GOING TO DRAFT EITHER PG.
IREPATL
February 27th, 2010
3:48 pm
BOSTON JUST LOST TO NEW JERSEY!!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOL