Mavericks at Hawks, AKA Lineups, Perspective and My Big Z Delusions
Brendan Haywood and the new-look Mavs are here. (JOHN F. RHODES/DMN)
I’m going to refrain from talking about how the Hawks can make some kind of statement about being an elite team against the Mavs. I do this mostly because I usually don’t like building up regular-season NBA games too much but also because I’m written out and need to hand off to the Hawks blogosphere. There’s good stuff out there on lineups, perspective, J.J.’s future and my delusions about Big Z.
– Both Hawk Str8talk (get well soon) and Peachtree Hoops are trying to figure out the best personnel combinations for the Hawks.
atl_hawk_luv says put Teague in the starting lineup not just because of the rookie’s speed and defense but because Bibby would help the bench and J.J. could see a “glimpse of his future with the Hawks” alongside Teague. He wants Mo instead of Marvin, too. Whichever lineup you favor, he’s clearly hit on the two weak spots among the starters.
hawksdawgs is “no longer clamoring for bench usage like (he) once was” after seeing the reserves out there as a unit and realizing the Hawks “just don’t have great depth.” But he thinks they have some “decent pieces” on the bench and so asks: “The bigger question going forward is not whether Mike Woodson should use at least an eight man bench. He should. . . . No, the bigger question is how to combine the bench pieces with the starters. What are the best lineups to maximize the skills and minimize the weaknesses?”
Well said. Woody’s struggling with that issue right now.
– Hawks superfan, ATLien and Slam Mag hack Lang Whitaker answers reader email and calls for some perspective. Responding to a reader upset about that mess in Golden State, Lang says he understands the emotional swings: “Perspective and patience aren’t exactly the hallmarks of rabid fans, who are, after all, fanatics. I know that this is a frequent theme I keep hitting on here over and over, but it can’t be stressed enough: The NBA season is a marathon. You lose a game, you have to put it behind you and start fresh.”
Lang also touches on J.J.’s future plans and says something that I need to remember as I keep seeing all these various reports about J.J. favoring this city or that city while I hear nothing like that from people who would know: “The truth is, I don’t think anyone, including Joe, knows what’s going to happen this summer. And anyone who tells you they do know what’s going to happen is lying to you.”
– Over at Hoopinion, Bret Lagree skewers one of my Ilgauskas posts. Lagree dismisses Ilgauskas’ size and experience as irrelevant because he thinks he’s just not very good or useful to the Hawks and also says he’s no longer much of a shooter. (In my defense, I did write way back when: “He once was an offensive threat in the post but has become more of a jumpshooter late in his career. Ilgauskas has slipped to 38 percent shooting on jumpers this season, according to 82games.com.)
Lagree concludes: “I think it’s even more delusional to believe that Ilgauskas would help the Hawks than that he would sign with the Hawks.” Well, then call me delusional because I disagree with him on the former (but have never believed the latter). Even so, I like Lagree’s style (and substance). Keep on skewering.
– After talking to Jamal, I don’t think the shoulder is much of an issue. I think he’s just slumping. He says not to worry, he’ll be fine.
– The Mavericks are quite pleased with that trade. Well, Tim Cowlishaw is at least.
– Caron Butler may not play tonight. If he does play he won’t be chewing on straws and isn’t happy about it. (I used to chew on straws but grew out of the habit.)
– Remember, the game is at 7 tonight after ESPN moved it up.
– Talk amongst yourselves, Hawks fans.
MC
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442 comments Add your comment
A Hawks Fan
February 26th, 2010
6:03 pm
Everyone keeps saying that we are the number 3 seed (Obrien and Ree Roe), but if we finish behind Cleveland and Orlando and ahead of Boston, are we not still the number 4 seed??
The Truth
February 26th, 2010
6:10 pm
A Hawks Fan
Is this a trick question?
Ree Roe
February 26th, 2010
6:13 pm
@ A Hawks Fan, apparently they changed the rule regarding record hierarchy among the top 4 teams in either conference. If the Hawks finish with a better record than BOS, we would finish ahead of them in the standings even if we don’t win our division.
-REEtail for Roe!
Traceman
February 26th, 2010
6:18 pm
@Fundamentals,
Sorry, but there is no easy answer for us versus the Magic. There just isn’t. We almost have to play a perfect game to beat them.
Howard is just too big and too strong for Al to handle one on one and he is too quick and athletic for Zaza. That situation creates problems for us on both ends that are very difficult to overcome. We are not the only team who has this problem with him. The Cavs went out and got Shaq for that reason alone.
If you double Howard, the 3 point shooters beat us. They made 10 and 12 3’s respectivley in the games where we tried to double Howard. Howard’s mere presence makes our guys have to cheat toward him which leaves shooters like Lewis, Anderson, Reddick, Carter, Nelson, Barnes, Williams and Pietrus in position to make us pay. For whatever reason, they ALWAYS seem to make us pay.
If you single cover Howard (like we did last time), he goes for 31/19 and just demoralizes you by continuously dunking in your face.
That said, I think the way to attack the Magic is to try to play Howard straight up as much as possible and double him occasionally, mixing up where the double comes from. Collins didn’t have a lot of success versus Howard last time but I would plan on letting Collins use his six fouls to make him earn it from the line. I never liked Hack a Shaq but you have to do what you have to do.
Most people think we have to run to be effective against ORL but I think that actually plays right into their hands. When those guys get to running and shooting 3’s in transition, they can run you out of the gym in a hurry. I think we need to run when it is there but we should also slow it down versus ORL and just try to be close going into the 4th quarer where the great individual skills of JJ and Jamal can create problems for anyone.
KevinA
February 26th, 2010
6:21 pm
Stretches with both Al and Josh out tend to be pretty disastrous. Making sure to keep at last one of the two in at all times prevents the frontcourt from being a complete failure.
Here’s how:
Both start the game and play 6 minutes.
Zaza comes alongside Josh for 4 minutes.
Horf comes alongside Zaza for 4 minutes.
Josh comes in to play with Horf another 6 minutes.
Both sit for about 2 minutes.
One of the two comes back for the half’s last 2 minutes.
Both start the second half for 6 minutes.
Zaza and Josh for 4 minutes.
Zaza and Horf for 4 minutes.
Zaza and Joe for 2 minutes.
Horf and Josh play the game’s last 8 minutes.
Both guys average about 36 minutes, but we only get 4 minutes where neither is in the game.
A cut down version from Bronn at peachtree hoops.
I agree 100%
The sprinkled effect with ZaZa and Joe Smith to me is a no brainer. They need Starters to hide their weakness
If any of the four are hot, or very bad, the minutes could be adjusted, but a nice frame work
rob
February 26th, 2010
6:31 pm
why cant we just get Dion Glover back
niremetal
February 26th, 2010
6:34 pm
In a way, I’m more wary of the prospect of Jamal being in a slump than I am of the prospect of him missing time due to injury. I was hoping that the new environment here had beat his old inconsistency out of him, so I hope he’s just playing through pain that’ll get better soon. Because if not…
truly1
February 26th, 2010
6:35 pm
Can someone help me understand why Mcunningham and others might think that Collins cant guard Dwight Howard? That olando game he played about 1 minute and got 3 fouls called on him he did not destroy collins so everyone has given up on him guarding dwight thats crazy give him another chance. The refs just didnt want him on dwight in orlando. I think he will be better in atl when we play them.
truly1
February 26th, 2010
6:37 pm
Thats why we brough collins in here to get fouls called on him
vava74
February 26th, 2010
6:39 pm
Collins had a PERFECT anticipation swipe when Howard was trying to do a spin move that was called a foul.
The other fouls were contact fouls when they were fighting for position exercising the same level if aggression.
Howard threw Zaza into the ground on that same game and Zaza got called for a foul…
rob
February 26th, 2010
6:41 pm
i remember the game in Atlanta against Orlando thanksgiving. we were very competeitive the first half and the second half we just kept on missing shots. I think we will be ok when they come to Atlanta, if we get swept thats not good though, we have to give Collins more burn against Dwight, and or get him in foul trouble. Our problem also is JJ Redick and Vince. The no name players always have a field day agaisnt us. Better watch Deshawn Stevenson tonight
sam'l
February 26th, 2010
6:44 pm
Guys, Orlando can be beaten. Many teams have done it. Unfortunately, I’ve been busy so I haven’t seen HOW they do it. You who have access to watch….how have they done it? I like Ken S’s idea in that it presents a different tack.
I’d put Mario on whoever they have that is hot….Play him in spurts against whoever is hot… .
Duke did something in a semifinal game or maybe a championship game a few years ago…..They were down 15-20 points at the half. They came out with wild, feverish energy, so much energy they knew they’d be burned out after about 5 minutes, but after that 5 minutes,they were a couple of points in front. After that they took several time outs and went into a stall. They dragged themselves to the foul line in slow motion to buy time. (oh yeah, they won too, Laettner was there) ….Obviously WE can’t stall, but that’s the TYPE of COMPREHENSIVE STRARGEY CHANGE we need to beat Orlando and now possibly the new, improved Cleveland.
Can Dwight Howard run full speed for an entire game? Run his buns off….Then, when he shows some fatigue, take the ball into him with dipsy doodle or hard drive and get 3 or 4 fouls on him.while he’s a little unsteady. Then take on the rest of the team on while he sits. Or make Pachulia or Horford practice about 200 17-footers a night for the rest of the year. Or Joe Smith , and have whoever Howard is guarding go outside the key and start bombing away, go to work on offensive rebounds and cash in. If Z wants to, let him do it. (Newsflash…Z ain’t coming…) If necessary start work on a full-court press and platoon the entire fricking team. Have em ready..let them know what is going to be expected of them. Both Cleveland and Orlando are fine teams…….but they can be beaten.
As for Dallas, I’m taking the hawks tonight by 7….because they know it’s a big game and they won’t come out flat!. The game will be tied at the half….Hawks will be by 3 to start the fourth, they’ll fall behind. Crawford will win it with 2:30 left. Kill me if I’m wrong (verbally, please, not literally)..
Then, in the second game, completely change the strategy.
I think at this stage of the season, we do need to win every game.
sam'l
February 26th, 2010
6:47 pm
actually, I like what the others are writing now….a lot. Go Hawks.
rob
February 26th, 2010
6:47 pm
@ saml’ it will be a big win, especially after Dallas beat the Lakers and the magic on their home court during their 5 game win streak, and the game is on ESPN @ home
niremetal
February 26th, 2010
6:55 pm
Well, ship has sailed:
http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider/status/9697958400
WKNR 850 AM’s Michael Reghi, who I will join in minutes, is reporting that Z has decided to re-sign with the Cavs.
rob
February 26th, 2010
6:57 pm
@niremetal is that accurate? oh well
Astro Joe
February 26th, 2010
6:58 pm
So I guess defeating a very high quality team from the Western Conference is such a given that we can move on and discuss how to beat the Magic, huh?
BTW, it is possible to finish ahead of the Magic and NOT win a game against them this season. But for that to happen, we need to win our home games like tonight.
F the Magic… let’s focus on these MVAS.
niremetal
February 26th, 2010
6:59 pm
It’s from the Cleveland Plain Dealer’s beat writer, so if any reporter would know, it’s probably him.
Assuming this is true, I’m surprised that he did it this quickly. The buyout was finalized yesterday, and teams aren’t even allowed to sign him until Monday because he has to clear waivers, if I’m not mistaken. Announcing his decision before the ink even dried on his buyout rather than even pretending to entertain other teams’ offers will raise a lot more eyebrows about there being an honest-to-goodness prearranged deal than he’d get if he just waited a week.
His agent is an idiot.
bigdave
February 26th, 2010
7:00 pm
lets get it..
Blast
February 26th, 2010
7:01 pm
Hubie!
Hawks have to win this game!
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:07 pm
Lets see what Marvin does this game
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:10 pm
LMAO @ duck.
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:12 pm
terrible defense
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:15 pm
Josh off to a good star
bigdave
February 26th, 2010
7:15 pm
good start..
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:15 pm
start*
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:19 pm
Damn duck again lol
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:20 pm
Well therted all right now not so much
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
February 26th, 2010
7:21 pm
Wow. I tune into the game @ 18-13 Hawks….and all I’ve saw since was bigs abusing us…and Marvin/Bibby being useless. Figures.
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:21 pm
Damn dirk is on fire
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
February 26th, 2010
7:22 pm
and bricks
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:22 pm
Now atlanta is chucking jump shots
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
February 26th, 2010
7:23 pm
lol wdf
J.J.M.
February 26th, 2010
7:23 pm
smh
J.J.M.
February 26th, 2010
7:23 pm
we always play bad on national tv
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:23 pm
Typical hawks choking again
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
February 26th, 2010
7:24 pm
These kind of things happen when you dont have offensive sets or some kind of “bread and butter” to go to in order to counter teams runs…..except praying for someone’s jumper to fall down.
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:24 pm
How you gonna choke in the 1st qtr?
Melvin
February 26th, 2010
7:25 pm
Look like the Hawks are going thru one of their signature scoring droughts…:(
Sam from da Swats
February 26th, 2010
7:25 pm
MARVIN IS F……ING USELESS!!!!!
J.J.M.
February 26th, 2010
7:26 pm
oh lord zaza is in
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:26 pm
Hawks are gonna lose
J.J.M.
February 26th, 2010
7:26 pm
this tean is pahtetic
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:26 pm
WTF is zaza gonna do
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
February 26th, 2010
7:27 pm
16-0 ?
J.J.M.
February 26th, 2010
7:27 pm
im sorry i gotta turn it
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:27 pm
I feel sorry for the people who bought tickets for this terrible team.
bigdave
February 26th, 2010
7:27 pm
Woody calling a time out to draw up an iso…
Blast
February 26th, 2010
7:28 pm
When it goes bad for Hawks, it goes really bad. The Iso plays are not working, and Dallas is runing the ball down Hawk’s throats.
BONE
February 26th, 2010
7:28 pm
Get this team outta ATL and bring in the Thunder at least they got heart.