Hawks stand pat at trade deadline, now look to Ilgauskas
'Big Z' seeking buyout from Wizards. (NBA.com)
Phoenix– The Hawks didn’t make any trades at today’s deadline, no surprise since GM Rick Sund had said all along he wouldn’t break up the team’s core with a deal.
“We like our core guys,” Sund said today. “I think we are positioned pretty well. We will learn some more (about the team) going forward in the last month-and-a-half and the playoffs.”
The Hawks also were unable to find any trade proposals that made sense. However, sources said the Hawks have reversed their stance on keeping their roster at the league minimum of 13 and will consider signing veterans who are bought out of their contracts by the end of this month.
The Hawks are expected to be among the suitors for veteran center Zydrunas Ilgauskas if he receives a buyout from the Wizards, sources said today. Ilgauskas was traded from Cleveland to Washington on Tuesday in a three-team deal but he’s seeking a buyout of the prorated portion of his $11.5 million expiring contract. The Wizards are cutting salary as they look to rebuild and Ilgauskas’ agent, Herb Rudoy, said his client wants to play for a contender.
Among the Hawks’ Eastern Conference rivals, only Cleveland made a major trade. The Cavaliers got forward Antawn Jamison from Washington as part of the three-team trade involving Ilgauskas.
Otherwise, the trade deadline passed relatively quietly in the East.
The Magic stood pat. The Celtics reportedly were waiting on league approval to complete a trade with the Knicks for reserve guard Nate Robinson. The Bobcats could be tougher first-round opponents for one of the top East teams after they acquired Tyrus Thomas from Chicago and Theo Ratliff from San Antonio.
The Hawks, who continue a four-game road trip Friday night at Phoenix, are 34-18 and trail Orlando by 1.5 games in the Southeast Division. The Celtics were a half game behind the Hawks before playing at the Lakers late Thursday.
“Until the end of the season I don’t look at the win column, I look at the loss column,” Sund said. “Here the trade deadline has passed and, after Cleveland, you have three teams (Magic, Hawks and Celtics) with 18 losses jockeying for position.
“I think we are pointed in the right direction. As long as we stay healthy, and that’s an important key, we can compete for these playoff spots going down the stretch.”
Ilgauskas could help the Hawks in the playoffs. Rudoy said today he hadn’t spoken to the Wizards yet about a buyout. Ilgauskas, 34, is taking a few days to think about his future, and Rudoy said the Hawks would fit Ilgauskas’ criteria for a new team if he doesn’t re-sign with the Cavs.
“If he decides to leave Cleveland, once he gets the buyout–and we hope we will have several options–he will only go to a team that can win a championship, period,” Rudoy said. “He will not be on a team that has no chance. He wants to play for one of the top teams, and Atlanta certainly is one of those teams.”
Rudoy said “a lot of teams are very interested in” Ilgauskas but declined to name them. In addition to the Cavs and Hawks, the Dallas Mavericks and Denver Nuggets are also reported to be interested in Ilgauskas.
Under league rules the Cavaliers would have to wait 30 days after Ilgauskas is waived to re-sign him, while another team could sign him immediately. Ilgauskas would have to be waived by March 1 to be eligible for a playoff roster.
Sund, citing league tampering rules, declined to comment on Ilgauskas.
Ilgauskas, at 7 feet 3 and 260 pounds, would satisfy the Hawks’ desire for a beefy center in the post to deal with Eastern Conference rivals Orlando (Dwight Howard) and Cleveland (Shaquille O’Neal). Ilgauskas could backup Al Horford at center and the two also could play together in a lineup with Horford at power forward.
The Hawks’ other options at center are Zaza Pachulia, Jason Collins and Randolph Morris.
Ilgauskas, a 12-year NBA veteran from Lithuania, was averaging career lows of 20.5 minutes, 7.5 points, and 5.3 rebounds for the Cavs. He once was an offensive threat in the post but has become more of a jumpshooter late in his career. Ilgauskas has slipped to 38 percent shooting on jumpers this season, according to 82games.com.
MC
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271 comments Add your comment
KevinA
February 19th, 2010
1:23 pm
Daniel
Against the Magic, I would NOT double Howard, make him work, but let him get his
I agree with the no double. We went that direction with Collins last game and then quit. We should have fouled out Collins and then let Rando do his thing.
At some point I would like to see Josh front Howard and have Al ready to help. Josh could make it hard for Howard to get the ball.
niremetal
February 19th, 2010
1:38 pm
Fronting is actually not a good strategy against Howard. Jameer salivates whenever teams do that because he knows he can throw it both over the golding defender and high enough that no one else can get it. Josh can jump high, but he can’t get as much lift when he’s jockeying for position with Howard, and a good PG can easily arc it over him.
O'Brien
February 19th, 2010
2:03 pm
I also dont like the fronting, because if the ball gets lobbed over, we will be trying to recover, and the Magic do a good job of ball movement (against us), which keeps us scrambling.
Still, just about every blogger (and ‘Nique) think that we should play Howard straight up, but Woody insists on doubling him (sometimes the double comes quick, and sometimes it comes late).
So what does Woody see that we dont see?
Grandad
February 19th, 2010
2:05 pm
Melvin:
I think in my original statement I said something along the line of;
“I don’t want to get anything started”.
Your point is well taken, someone will give him his money.
He is a good player. He just cannot shoot. He is ‘NOT’ a franchise player. Neither is Marv. However, I’m of the belief that Marv is a better player than he shows here. If/when Marv leaves, I think we will regret it and realize that perhaps Wdsn underutilized his skill set.
Personally – I think Marv is a high post [4].
I respect your opinions on this board. It’s just amazing to me how
similar Marv and Rudy are both physically and stat wise.
[pts. notwithstanding] Rudy would not be a good fit here as we already have Josh who can’t shoot. See…I love Josh…and he can’t shoot.
Seriously, have a great day, Melvin!!!
GeeMack
February 19th, 2010
2:25 pm
Daniel
It’s probably 7 or 8 coaches in the league that are clearly better coaches than Woody, and those 2 are not in the discussion.
If you give Woody the teams those guys have, you’ll get the same results.
IMO coaching is not the biggest problem with the Hawks…it’s personnel.
Some of the suggestion Ken Strickland made makes alot of sense ( Half court pressure, PG double teams, occassional zones, along with the switching defense) this will keep the offenses guessing.
keeping it Real
February 19th, 2010
2:36 pm
hawks need a good big man to win past second round
Rod from College Park
February 19th, 2010
2:42 pm
Grandad,
Make sure when you watch the games you put on your glasses. If you really think that Marvin and Rudy Gay are the same, then you do need to get your eyes checked. Think about it this way, if you put Marvin on the Grizzlies, and put Rudy on the Hawks, the Hawks would be much better, and the Grizzlies would be much worse. If Rudy Gay was guarded by much smaller guys(6′4 and 6′5) like Marvin is, he would take advantage of it. If Rudy was left wide open like Marvin is he would be able to shoot a higher percentage than Marvin does. All your points about stats are irrelevant because Rudy draws the other teams best defender, or a double team, and teams don’t even worry about Marvin. Watching the game last nite Doug Collins explained that in the playoffs, if you have a guy on the floor who is not an offensive threat, teams won’t guard him. That is Marvin. I look at Rudy as a younger version of Joe Johnson with a little more explosion. Joe is a better shooter. Rudy is an eagle and Marvin is a duck. After watching at home with Marvin Williams before the Clippers game, I realize that Marvin’s dad and his cousin are probably on here defending him all the time. After reading thru these post I realize that TRACEMAN is his father, KEVIN A is his cousin and you might be his GRANDAD. TRACEMAN with all this nonsense about his PER average is very funny. If you have any knowledge of the game, and you watch what you see and not what you believe, you realize that he is just not a good player. He is serviceable at best. Almost any other 3 in the league could come to Atlanta, and give us what Marvin does. He gets less shots because he can not hit the ones he gets. He is the only player on the Hawks besides maybe Bibby, who gets WIDE OPEN looks. He can’t dribble, he can’t finish, he gets his shots blocked by players much smaller than him, he is a a jump shooter who can’t hit wide open jump shots. He can’t defend 3’s and you think he is a 4. So you think he could check the Garnett’s, Boozer’s, Bosh’s, and Dirk’s of the world. Come on GRANDAD, wake up or stop taking that medicine that makes you hallucinate.
GeeMack
February 19th, 2010
2:52 pm
keeping it Real
You will be hard pressed to fide one.
Melvin
February 19th, 2010
2:55 pm
Grandad,
I too believe that Marvin is more of a PF than SF but this team already have the PF’s spot well covered. However, other than height, thats the only similiar attribute that Rudy and Marvin share. Rudy is a better ball handler, creater, finisher and passer than Marvin and his defense is very underrated. Keep in mind, that most of Rudy shots are contested where as Marvin is generally open for those baseline and corner 3 shots. Also, I respect your views. You made a good reference to their stats but let me add that stats doesn’t tell the whole story. Thats why I said his contract this summer, will be an indicatin on how their(Griz) and other GMs consider what he brings to the court. I’m not calling Rudy a superstar but he’s a borderline all-star out west only b/c he’s competing against Melo and Durant at the SF spots.
Grandad
February 19th, 2010
2:55 pm
Ken Strickland:
Agreed…agreed…and agreed.
We tend to agree on all things Wdsn.
Lack of creativity and or innovation, more so on offense than ‘D’.
My previous post to Melvin, I mentioned that I thought Marv would make a terrific high post [4]. Wdsn most likely has never thought about
“what can ‘I’ do to help Marv improve”?
Thinking outside the box, ha…Wdsn is so banal,If he ran a box and 1,
He’d put the 1 in the box.
You are absolutely correct my friend, why not use our speed and athleticism as an asset. Both on ‘O’ and ‘D’.
And don’t even get me started on young Teaguer!!!
You got me to thinking – all these trade scenarios:
We’ve got assets, lets quit worrying about what we don’t have!
Think about it. How many teams would love to have 4 all-star caliber
players?
To quote Mark Richt/Erk Russell/Todd Grantham: “GATA”
The First Track of Rod's Mind
February 19th, 2010
3:02 pm
MARVIN SUCKS
The Second Track of Rod's Mind
February 19th, 2010
3:03 pm
404 error: DOES NOT EXIST
Grandad
February 19th, 2010
3:11 pm
Melvin:
Under the circumstances [Wdsn], unfortunately, Marv has more value to us as a trade chip (next summer) than as a player.
O'Brien
February 19th, 2010
3:25 pm
@ GeeMack,
“IMO coaching is not the biggest problem with the Hawks…it’s personnel”
I wont say that personnel is not an issue. But we’re stuck with the personnel we have (for the time being). Therefore, it is up to the coach to make the most of the personnel that we have, and figure out ways to play to their strengths.
For example, playing zone sometimes, knowing who (and when) to double-team, knowing when to play inside-out, knowing when to apply a full court press, knowing the right play to call (instead of ISOs)etc.
Our personnel probably wont change for the rest of the season, but our coaching strategies and adjustments can change on a game to game basis.
Grandad,
If your opinion is that for the price that it will take to get Gay, Marvin will give you a better value (due to salary), then I can see where you might be coming from with that.
But to say Marvin can give you close to what Rudy gives you, you’re in the minority on that one. Other teams gear up to stop Rudy, while Hawks opponents dont ever go into a game thinking “watch out for Marvin”.
And Rod from CP says it best. Switch places, and put Marvin on the Grizzlies right now, and see how that team performs. And put Gay on the Hawks right now and see how we perform.
I dont think there is any comparison.
Melvin
February 19th, 2010
3:30 pm
Grandad,
You may be right… This summer will be interesting in Hawksland. JJ pending FA. Will this be the summer we finally resolve Chills situation. Are we going to make any moves to bring in new personnel. And are we going to resign Woody? Yep, Hawks have some critical decisions to make.
Rod from College Park
February 19th, 2010
3:36 pm
One other thing, most people on this blog have some basketball knowledge. Please stop with this the Hawks are athletic crap. The only guy in our starting lineup who is athletic is Josh Smith. Bibby is not, Joe is crafty but not athletic, Marvin is clumsy not athletic, Horford plays with energy he is really not that athletic. His post moves are very robotic. Jamal is just a crafty veteran. Teague, Mario, and Evans are athletic, but thats it. We are not any more athletic than the Lakers, Cleveland, Memphis, Orlando, Ok. City, Chicago, Charlotte…….
Astro Joe
February 19th, 2010
3:46 pm
Rudy Gay is clearly a better scorer than Marvin. He has a #1/2 scorer’s mentality and has been groomed to think that his contribution to his team’s success will mostly come by scoring. If memory serves me correctly, he grabbed less than 3 boards in the most recent game against the Hawks. He, like many other young SFs, is still learning how to consistently rebound the ball. I can’t speak to his defense, he blocks shots but that’s not an indicator of defensive skill. He will clearly make more money than Marvin because scoring is highly valued in this league.
Marvin came into the league on a team that featured veteran offensive players like Harrington and Joe. He also deferred to guys like Chill and Josh. He never left the arena thinking “I have to score for this team to be successful”. I’ve said ad nauseum that he must improve converting the few shot attempts he gets each night. Lately, he has been doing better on the boards and his defense is picking up again.
But just like Ronnie Brewer and Kevin Martin are asked to do different things for their teams, so are Marvin and Rudy.
Astro Joe
February 19th, 2010
4:03 pm
Rod, I don’t think that athletic and clumsey are opposites. When I hear the term “athletic” used in basketball, I think about playing above the rim. Ray Allen is not athletic but he is very graceful. Marvin is not graceful but he does have above average leaping ability (no, not like Josh but let’s not sit here and act like he has a 20″ vertical). At the same time, I agree with your base assessment, the Hawks are not incredibly athletic. I think they were when Chill was here and added another “high flyer”.
Daniel
February 19th, 2010
4:13 pm
Rod- I totally disagree with your assessment that the Hawks are not athletic, particularly the front court. We agree on Josh, Al is very athletic, balance, power and speed. Have you seen the way he brings the ball up the court? ZaZa is athletic for a 7 footer, and I know it won’t matter what I say about Marvin but he is athletic.
GeeMack
February 19th, 2010
4:14 pm
O’Brien
I think we can be alot better on several fronts.
I also think Woody is doing good job with what he has. Can it better? Sure.
Currently we are fighting teams like (Bos, Orl, & Cle)for playoff position, and those teams all have 4 or more current or former all stars players.
Those players are all playing at a very respectable level, with the exception of Rasheed.
You are correct we need employ some different strategies during the process of games, however if we did all the things you suggest it would only yeild 2 or 3 more wins.
Grandad
February 19th, 2010
4:16 pm
R.f.C.P.
Just to get this straight:
I an no relation to Marv.
Although, I would be proud if he were my grandson!
Also, I have sat on the court at more basketball games (well over 1000)than you will ever watch on TV.
So, Marv on the Griz, makes them worse, so then, they would not make the play-offs and have a losing record?
Lets see:
Currently Mem. = 1 game Above .500, 11th in West, -1 pt dif., hmmmmm.
Now Mem. has improved over last yr. = [Zach Randolph] I agree.
As stated above…we don’t need another slasher/finisher in the lineup
here as we already have Josh. I much prefer Josh. Where would you put Rudy in our lineup (already undersized). Once again I prefer Josh.
Rudy can’t shoot! You say Rudy draws the other teams best defender,
or gets doubled; what about Zach and Mayo – chopped liver?
I agree he is smoother than Marv and finishes stronger. conceded.
Another point, you mentioned my statement about Marv as a high post [4]
and noted that he couldn’t guard KG, etc. Where a player lines up on offense has not one thing to do with who he guards on ‘D’. Your point is moot. Not to mention all the switching we do anyway.
Now! You are so blinded by your prejudice against Marv that you will not open your mind and see any quality this young man has that may or may not be outstanding.
Sir, my experience, (in basketball) qualifies me to make certain analysis’. Please accept this as truth.
I’m not attacking you, but I am qualified to make assessments on
players skill and their relative value.
Marvin is a good kid!
O'Brien
February 19th, 2010
4:27 pm
AJ,
Agreed on Marvin. In college, his role was 6th man, and now on the Hawks, he is the 6th option. And if he is able to improve his rebounding, his defense, and knock down the open jumper with consistency, then his contract will be of great value.
I would like to see Marvin slow down Grant Hill later (Hill had a really good game last time). And I wonder if Stoudemire will be out to prove a point (He had 36 pts and 14 rebs against the Mavs Wednesday night).
Grandad
February 19th, 2010
4:29 pm
O’Brien:
What would Rudy’s nimbers be here; with the 3 J’s and Al?
For the money…his nimbers would not be enough to justify the expenditure.
Marv is a proven:
*Great teammate = chemistry
*Above avg. defender (perhaps even Good on ball defender)
*Better shooter *** No Question (Marv having off yr.,everybody has one)
*Good contract (already in place)
Rod from College Park
February 19th, 2010
4:31 pm
Astro Joe,
While some of your points are valid others are not. Rudy Gay averages more rebounds per game this year than Marvin does, so the 3 against us is irrelevant. More than likely rebounding on his team is not something that is really required of him with Zach (12 rpg) in the paint. Marvin defers because he can’t get his own shot. When he signed the contract this summer both Sund and Woodson stated that they expected a lot of improvement in his game. There has been no improvement just regression in his game. What games are you watching where is defense is picking up? We have been outplayed at the point and the 3 in almost every game we have played recently. Did he defend Rasual Butler? I don’t remember anybody playing defense against Miami, don’t remember him doing anything special against Memphis, nothing against the Bulls. what games are you watching? Marvin’s role as I understood it going into this year was to improve his offense (fail), hit the wide open 3 (fail), defend his position, and defend the best offensive wing player so Joe does not have to (fail), help rebound(not a fail, but not a pass either), become one of our better players on the team (total fail). They should have also told him to work on his balance and footwork, which is terrible. He received the type of money he recv’d this offseason because of his potential to improve. He was paid more than Ariza, Matt Barnes, and Artest. He has failed miserably.
HawksFan11
February 19th, 2010
4:49 pm
Daniel
I was with you until you wrote “ZaZa is athletic for a 7 footer”. Zaza is about as athelitic as Master P was graceful on Dancing with the Stars.
Melvin
February 19th, 2010
4:51 pm
Grandad,
I disagree that this team couldn’t use another slasher. Matter of fact that’s what this team is lacking (see JChills). Lately I have seen Marvin slashing to the paint off the ball for easy baskets and rebounds. Smoove rarely slash to the baskets during offensive sets other than pick n rolls and alley play from Bibby. I would like to see Smoove slash more because he has the athleticism to finish at the rim versus standing on the perimeter. If this team had Rudy, he would be a great compliment to Joe in the starting line up b/c he can create his own shot and score 18-20 pts (similiar to Jamal). Remember Sund acquire Jamal b/c we need another scorer. If Marvin could produce that type of scoring consistently than it would be no need for Jamal, right?
Rod from College Park
February 19th, 2010
4:58 pm
Grandad,
While you are a little older than me, I would still challenge you as to how many sporting events basketball related that you have been to. I have had season tickets to the Hawks for 6 years now, have had season tickets to another pro sports team when I lived there, plus had season tickets to the Hawks (All pretty good seats also) growing up in Atlanta. Along with playing against some of the many guys we sit up and argue about all day, plus knowing a lot of the players personally because of my job (entertainent), I do feel like I am just as qualified to speak as you. I have had conversations with guys in the league and trust me Marvin is only highly regarded as a basketball player in Atlanta on this blog. Notice no other team made any offer to him in the offseason. On your points, Marvin being a great teamate means nothing. Rasheed Wallace was a great teamate to his team. So was Dennis Rodman. Marvin by no means is an above average defender. I don’t think that Marvin is a better shooter. Marvin can’t shoot with a hand in his face, Rudy can. If you actually think that if Rudy Gay was on the Hawks, he would average 10ppg, then you are crazy. He would probably be our 2nd or 3rd best player. If you show your teammates that you can play, they will pass it to you when you are open. Him being a good kid or giving to the salvation army, or being the double dutch champion in Seattle means nothing. I would rather have a malcontent like Stephen Jackson, who the other team has to prepare for than a nice guy like Marvin on my team. So if he could not guard the 4’s I named and you say that would not matter, would ne be able to score on them? He can’t score on guys 5 inches shorter than him. Your constant support of this guy and absurb statements concerning him really lead me to believe that you are related to him.
The Truth
February 19th, 2010
5:01 pm
HawksFan11
That’s a good one about Zaza, really cracked me up!! I was wondering who was going to say it first.
Astro Joe
February 19th, 2010
5:01 pm
Rod, I have said ad naseum that his performance is down this year. His shooting percentage should improve as well as his rebounding. But no one should expect his scoring average to improve unless they are willing to say exactly which player will be shooting less and passing more. What frustrates me is the belief that on a team with 6 players averaging 24+ minutes, that someone will NOT be the 5th (or 6th) scoring option. I’m fairly certain that there is a 5th/6th scoring option on each and every team. Again, yes, his shooting percentage needs to improve to last season’s form… but unless the thought is that he needs to take shots away from Jamal, Joe, Al or Josh… I have no idea how anyone could expect him to suddenly put up points comparable to a 1-3 scoring option-type player.
And I’m guessing that the rebound rate per minute is pretty even between Marvin and Gay.
richbrave
February 19th, 2010
5:09 pm
richbrave
February 19th, 2010
5:07 pm
First DREW GOODEN refused the trade, now IlGAUSKAS. Meanwhile, MIKE JAMES wants to be bought out so he can get a head start on next season. I say f*** ‘um. Let the cancer fester on the bench. They’re both going to be expiring at the end of the season anyway. Besides, the WIZ have plenty of cancer to go around already. A little more won’t hurt anything.
Rod from College Park
February 19th, 2010
5:41 pm
Astro Joe,
Here we go round in circles again. answer this question for me. Why would Joe, Josh, Bibby, Jamal or Horford pass more to a guy who has proved he can’t deliver? Why would Woodson design plays for a guy who proved he can’t score? That’s the point. He had every opportunity to prove he could become higher in the pecking order and he failed. He was above Al in the pecking order last year. Jamal was not here. He should be moving up in the pecking order not down. I know you will say it does not matter, but out of all of our best players, not Joe Smith, he is the highest drafted player. Why is he going backwards?
Astro Joe
February 19th, 2010
5:50 pm
Rod, because sometimes, guys are drafted in the wrong position. And then a good GM corrects that mistake by offering a contract that is more indicative of the most recent evaluation. So Josh gets %58M and Marvin gets $37M… based on the most recent evaluation. Isn’t that your understanding of how things work, or do you think that Bibby is still viewed as a former #2 overall pick these many years later?
O'Brien
February 19th, 2010
5:56 pm
From ajc.com,
“Atlanta Spirit co-owner Steve Belkin has until next Thursday to pay $2 million or else he risks losing his stake in the partnership, Montgomery County Circuit Court documents say.”
I can’t wait for the ownership situation to be resolved.
Hoops
February 19th, 2010
5:59 pm
O’Brien,
That 2M could be the extra money that’s needed to attract Big Z!!!
Ramon
February 19th, 2010
6:05 pm
I wish Michael Jordan’s ownership team would come bid on the Hawks.
ILL-logical
February 19th, 2010
6:21 pm
The discussions regarding who is a better player/ a better fit between Marvin and Rudy Gay has raised some interesting points however, allow me to take a slightly different angle on the matter:
1. If the Hawks go after Rudy Gay-and I am on record as saying they should- it will be to replace Joe; Marvin would be part of the price paid in either free agency or S/T.Rudy is not as good as Joe today but in 2 years and the right offensive system , he will be as good as Joe is today.
2.Most if not all of the discussions on this blog regarding players and their performance ASSUME Woodson’s “system” as a basis for evaluation. for instance, in the above discussion concerning Marvin vaersus Rudy, the comparison is based on what attributes the 3 posistion must posses in the current scheme of things.ie 3 point shooting. Well a close look at Denver’s bench last evening would have revealed a Hall of Fame small forward who had no 3 point shot making ability , worked almost exclusively in the low postand was actually 6′41/2″ tall. Adrian Dantly played on teams as diverse as the Lakers and the Pistons but averaged over 20 ppg over his Hall of Fame career.
If the Hawks ever get a coach who creates an offense based upon the skill sets of the players, who knows what might happen?
KevinA
February 19th, 2010
6:21 pm
Rod from College Park
We will find out how good of a bargain Gay is when he gets his first big contract. But if you want to talk bargain lets talk Carl Landry. He is younger, a better rebounder, shoots a better FG% and cheaper. The kid is a stud. I would love to have him as a Hawk over Marvin or Gay. Next year at this time we can judge Marvin better considering his age and the back injury he went through. His contract this year precludes a trade as you well know. Besides if you go far enough back into the posts you would find I liked Chills as a better fit although I wanted to keep both. We got Jamal instead. Which worked out better than I had ever imagined.
There is much debate as to how we can improve the team. You choose Marvin as your huckleberry and others choose getting a more traditional big. My personal huckleberry is a better PG. I like many, thought Bibby would have a better year. West was a waste. Multiple 10 day contracts with D League PG’s should have resulted in a better result. The fact is, Sund chose not to make any more moves and I do not see any more coming till summer.
I was not defending Marvin as much as I was pointing our he has shot much better the last 20 games. As Astro said, volume is not as important when Marvin is the 5th option. If we have an injury this may change and we will see if Marvin will step up. Until then he just needs to defend. As hot and as good as JJ and Jamal have shot, I still want more touches for Al and Josh. The better the balance the better chance we have to win if someone is cold or god forbid injury.
The Truth
February 19th, 2010
6:21 pm
On the subject of Marvin, at least this year, he seems to be struggling with a number of issues, some common and some perhaps uncommon:
The acquisition of Crawford and less playing minutes have affected his game (This is happening at a time when he is still defining his game)
The acquisition of Crawford and the shifting of roles have also affected his game
The signing of his new contract seem to be effecting his game
The development of his game with respect to his age still seem to be a work in progress
He still doesn’t fully know the extent to what he can do (and not do) in the heat of battle
His court decisions (for example) to read defenses and attack or pass is still a work in progress (Often times he tries to be the hero without the full understanding of his limitations; some of his current moves just isn’t working right now especially in the paint)
I’m sure some (if not all) of these issues will be worked out in time. For example, JJ has floaters working for him this year I had not previously seen. If the Hawks was where the Nets are now, we could all sit back and watch Marvin develop stress-free. But with the emerging possibility of a deep playoff run for the Hawks, there are some fans that do not have the patience to wait on the possibilities of Marvin’s full potential. They want a complete polish team now. Also, we as fans need to understand that Marvin’s role is emerging to be the “The Utility Guy” instead of a “Go to Guy”. A less glamorous role but very necessary for team success (a dirty job but somebody got to do-it kind of player). This could be a Woody design. If Woody did not design this, then this is the affects from his current challenges. But, the idea that he is getting paid 7.5M is the reason we are having this kind of conversation.
KevinA
February 19th, 2010
6:41 pm
Rod from College Park
Why would Joe, Josh, Bibby, Jamal or Horford pass more to a guy who has proved he can’t deliver?
For one thing he has a better career FG% than JJ or Jamal. Since his back injury he has struggled but the last 20 games his shooting % is back to normal. I am not sure how you can put Bibby in a group who cannot pass to Marvin because he cannot finish when clearly he finishes better than Bibby. The other guys? Sure I give you that. They are having career years and are playing at a higher level. I would have no problem running Marvin more plays at the expense of option 6 on down. In fact I would encourage it in the remainder of the season. We need Marvin cooking for the playoffs.
F.I.L.A
February 19th, 2010
6:55 pm
Rod from College Park…..Get off marvin williams nuts man..Thats all you do is talk about marvin..Lol what type of man are you sir?
Rod from College Park
February 19th, 2010
6:58 pm
Kevin A,
Don’t hold you breath waiting on Marvin to cook. His playoff averages are much worse.
Rod from College Park
February 19th, 2010
7:02 pm
Kevin A,
I actually agree that the point is a problem, but I have some track record to believe that Bibby will break out of his slump. His defense is terrible, but when we need a big shot I am confortable with him taking the shot because he has proved that he can hit a big shot during his career. I would not want Marvin taking a big shot at Welcome All Park.
KevinA
February 19th, 2010
7:06 pm
To be honest I want to see Dallas beat Orlando much more than our roster. Our roster is set.
Blazers over Boston? – a stretch but could happen.
Last game against the guards had problems but Josh and Al went off. I think we will need our guards tonight.
KevinA
February 19th, 2010
7:13 pm
Rod from College Park
I dont know if you normalyl read my posts. I gripe about Bibby but if he got on a hot streak, that would be awesome. To be honest I have more faith in Bibby,ZaZa and Marvin playing at a higher level than Teague, Joe Smith, Evans, Collins, Mario and Rando. To go more than 7 deep one of these guys need a break through.
O'Brien
February 19th, 2010
7:35 pm
Ok guys, lets talk about the Suns while we wait for the game blog.
The Hawks did a decent job on Nash last time (points wise), although he had a bunch of assists. What do we expect tonight?
Will Teague get some PT when Phoenix play their backup PG?
Astro Joe
February 19th, 2010
8:02 pm
One more point on Marvin and the addition of Jamal, Marvin knew about Jamal from their Washington State connection. As I understand it, Jamal was something of a high school legend in that area. So Marvin doesn’t view Jamal in the same manner that someone like Al (who I think grew up in Detroit) would think of Jamal.
Marvin is a below average salaried SF who gets the 5th most shots on his Eastern Conference contending team this year (and was likely no higher than 4th in other seasons). At some point, being unable to separate his draft selection 5 years ago from his current status as a below average salaried SF must be considered a short-coming by the person who is incapable of “getting over it already”. There is nothing in Marvin’s demeanor that suggests that he is prideful, egotistical, self-centered or boostful. In other words, he ain’t walking around like a #2 pick entitled to some type of special treatment from teammates, opposing players or referees. If his ultimate sin was accepting BK’s decision to select him #2, then I think he paid his penance when he accepted that less than average salary last summer.
East Point
February 19th, 2010
8:04 pm
Marvin could do what Gay does if he is giving the shots.he can drive and he can shoot..he is the total package but he is only the 4 option..at best..Do u people watch the game…Marvin only takes 8 or 9 shots a game…he plays his role and is never out of control….we are a guard oriented team…Marvin is not the problem….josh and Al need more shots anyway
rod,
I never hear u talk bad about Joe…But u can clearly see when he gets the ball the offense usually stop moving…Big games he doesnt show up…some team will regret paying him max money….we also have a very small frontcourt with Al at 6ft8 and josh smith maybe 6ft7 and im streching it..we have big men but your coach refuses to use his talent…..
oh yeah Has Marvin had a doggy style session with your girl ?
Blast
February 19th, 2010
8:17 pm
Would be nice if Dallas beat Orlando tonight, and hope Boston falls to Portland. Boston was VERY lucky to escape from LA with a one point win without Kobe.
Oh, yes. And no dancing for Cleveland last night!
KevinA
February 19th, 2010
8:31 pm
Let’s put it this way, If Nash was our PG JJ and Jamal would be pissed. he controls the offense. Al, Marvin and Josh would be happy. He has the skill to feed the ball to who ever he wants. At the same time all of our career highs by all of the players would probally go up in efficiency. If we were the Lakers money we could trade Bibby and lick our lips.
KevinA
February 19th, 2010
8:36 pm
Blast
A win tonight and a Orlando loss would be great. Boston losing to the Blazers is a stretch without Roy but we can only hope.