Zaza Pachulia and Jamal Crawford return for Hawks
Los Angeles– Zaza Pachulia and Jamal Crawford were back at practice Monday and expect to play Wednesday night against the Clippers.
Pachulia has missed the last two games with left hip pain. Crawford sat out the last game before the All-Star break with a sore left shoulder.
Pachulia had been inactive since playing five minutes in the Hawks’ 91-81 victory over Chicago on Feb. 5. He’s had trouble with the hip twice this season but said he hopes to avoid further problems by better managing the injury.
“I feel better after the medicine,” he said. “I feel good. The rest was good. I just need to keep it in good shape. The last time it happened once there was no pain, I kind of let it go.”
Crawford missed the Hawks’ loss to the Heat on Wednesday with a sore left shoulder. He said the pain was related to an injury he suffered in 2008 with the Knicks but that he’s over it now.
“Everything is good,” he said.
MC
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120 comments Add your comment
RA
February 16th, 2010
5:43 am
Up a little early aren’t you MC?
RA
February 16th, 2010
5:48 am
I’ve said it many times, Jamal Crawford is the perfectly tailored suite on a really bad body. As long as he’s healthy, the flaws in the Hawks bench become much less profound, but if he goes down for any stretch of time at all, well, the Miami game will play itself out again, and again…
Bill
February 16th, 2010
5:56 am
What would happen to Zaza’s game if he put on about 20 pounds in the weight room? He doesn’t rely on speed/quickness anyway.
Marcus
February 16th, 2010
6:41 am
coming out ready to rock.
rob
February 16th, 2010
6:52 am
i wanted first! oh well. Michael, if Joe left in Free agency would the hawks try to go after a top free agent? my hope is that they keep Joe, but what about Wade, i know Lebron isnt coming here. What about Tracey Mcgrady? he could be a last second thing just to toy around with? just an option. We need to take this one with the Clippers to start off the second half right
vava74
February 16th, 2010
7:05 am
Well, we desperately need Crawford healthy for this west trip and an healthy Zaza wouldn’t hurt us either.
I hope Zaza comes back re-energized since he has not been consistently playing up to last year’s level.
Tracy McGrady? Good grief… Why do you think the Rockets don’t want him? It’s for a good reason: he has no heart, no defense, no drive, … he is basically a perennial loser.
vava74
February 16th, 2010
7:10 am
GeeMack,
Carrying it from the previous blog: Nocioni would definitively be a good fit for us, however, we don’t have any trading chips to snatch him.
He is the target of many teams since he plays 2 positions SG/SF, is a warrior on both ends of the court, has some post game and is a legitimate 3 point threat.
He is all that we would like Mo to be and unfortunately isn’t: a consistent contributor off the bench who does not need shots called for him and is always ready for battle.
Mo has some motivation issues making him a lot less effective than when he does not get starter minutes.
When Mo starts and plays 28/32 minutes he produces, when he comes out of the bench and plays 18/20 minutes he doesn’t produce proportionally (most of the time he produces close to nothing on the offensive end).
O'Brien
February 16th, 2010
7:29 am
I wonder if ZaZa’s injury has contributed to his inconsistencies this year?
vava74,
And TMac is always injured too.
If Crawford goes down for an extended period, Hawks are in trouble. Thats why it would be nice to see Sund make a move to upgrade the bench. Unfortunately, we just dont have any trade pieces, so we’ll be going to battle with the troops we have now.
I hope Woody gets them refocused, because we can’t afford to have any letdowns. We need some blowout wins so that our bench can get major minutes, and hopefully get them going.
Lets start by putting a beatdown on the Clippers tomorrow night.
tjhook
February 16th, 2010
7:50 am
Yes, ZaZa needs to go Gaga down low and start putting points on the board to draw defensive attention while he’s on the floor
MannyT
February 16th, 2010
8:11 am
@RA…if MC is on the road trip., maybe he stayed up late and posted this blog.
@rob…the funky rules of the NBA salary cap will not allow the Hawks to go after any new max player as a free agent. If the free agent were so excited about the Hawks and able to force a sign & trade, then you could get a big name. Otherwise, no JJ means someone who gets a little more than MLE money, not max money.
The best thing about T-Mac is his $23 mil expiring contract that gives you cap relief (or possibly a chance to go after a big time free agent.)
BWAF
Fundamentals
February 16th, 2010
8:11 am
Definitely agree – we can’t go w/o Crawford, Mo pouts, ZaZa has been injured or distracted all year, Nocioni would be great, T-Mac is a bad idea. Kid doesn’t care about anything but the $$. No heart, no D, no real effort when it matters.
No matter who signs with Cleveland we have to believe we can beat them. We need a sense of urgency and the confidence to believe in each other. If we can find both nobody can beat us. Right now it’s about growing mentally. There’s nothing Sund can really do w/o disrupting the team potentially in a bad way.
I think we’re ready. Let’s enjoy the stretch run regardless of what happens or doesn’t happen by Thursday.
The biggest trade aquisition our team needs between now and Thursday is a trade for real fans who support their team down the stretch. Let’em hear you at the games!
Slo-Mo
February 16th, 2010
8:27 am
The Hawks need to go after a ligit Big down low. A real 12-10 guy who can bang down low. Let Al play the 4 spot.Its not rocket science to figure this out.
Daniel
February 16th, 2010
8:40 am
Hey MC,
Is it just me or is there something fishy about Crawford’s shoulder injury? I mean it kinda came out of nowhere, right before the All Star break, then we get a cryptic explanation. I am not speculating about what it really could be, but I have to be honest there seems to be more to the story. If it is as simple as a “private” matter, I can live with that, but tell me what do you think is going on?
Fundamentals- Love your post, but I would say it is not unreasonable to think the Hawks could add a player to the bench who is bought out of their current contract. i.e. a Mike Miller, Drew Gooden(not real interested here). Theoretically an adjusted salary for 30 or so games for a vet would only be a few hundred thousand. (I know easy for me to say right?)
Slo-Mo: Please, please, please….. We really don’t need more theoretical, hypothetical trade scenario’s. OK, I mean why not just say… We need Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Steve Nash and Lebron James? It is not Rocket Science.
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
9:16 am
Daniel,
As always, I enjoy reading your posts cause u ask the same questions I have. I wondered the same thing about Crawford’s “mysterious” shoulder injury. I believe Sund had something to do with it. It would have solved 3 things for Sund. 1) Could Joe Johnson carry the load for a win against an under 500 team in Miami w/o Crawford to see if we really need to overpay Joe this off season, 2) Is Crawford really our ‘bench’ and not just a sixth man candidate, or 3) is Woodson not using the bench that Sund provided him this past off season correctly enough for an extention. Sund would have killed 3 birds with 1 stone if this is the case.
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
9:18 am
I believe if the table was turned and Joe Johnson was out with a “shoulder injury” and Crawford played, The Hawks would have won. Hands Down!!
Daniel
February 16th, 2010
9:21 am
Ms Dee- I always like a good conspiracy theory, but that would suggest that Sund could make all those judgements on just one game and that he actually has that kind of player control. I think it has more to do with Jamal personally, needed some extra time off, family issue(?), etc. I certainly don’t think anything sinister about Jamal, though. But, it is weird. C’mon MC enquiring minds want to know.
Melvin
February 16th, 2010
9:22 am
Daniel,
I posted the following comment on the Fan Nest blog on 2/13. It was a cut and paste from an article on Hoopsworld.
Melvin
February 13th, 2010
11:09 pm
“The losing situation might motivate Howard, Gooden or Singleton to accept a buy-out at a slightly reduced rate while Ross still has some value on the trade market if Washington wants to go younger. Ross, however, can veto any trade since he signed a qualifying offer over the summer. Mike Miller, Mike James and Fabricio Oberto are three more Wizards who might be candidates for a buyout.” – Hoopsworld
I wouldn’t mind seeing the Hawks persue Mike Miller and/or Drew Gooden if they are bought out…
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
9:28 am
My point #2 would be if Sund needs to truly upgrade the bench a little more if Crawford is all we really have in a bench. And point #3 is if Sund need to really look for another coach to take the Hawks to the Promise Land because Woodson refuses to use the pieces we already have in a team. Sund may feel insulted b/c Woodson doesnt use what has been provided for him properly. Sund than may want him gone just like BKnight did.
Daniel
February 16th, 2010
9:33 am
Ms. Dee- I hear you.
Melvin- I would love to be able to pick up Mike Miller if he were bought out, but now that the Wizards have unloaded with the Mavs will they still be willing to buy them out? Or would Miller be packaged with Jaimison to make a trade work or sweeten the pot?
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
9:34 am
Daniel,
I hear what u are saying but I dont think the judgement is based on 1 game but many cause Jamal has outscored Joe in serveral games coming off the bench. This 1 game just may have proved a point to Sund, Joe Johnson, & Woodson in a nut shell.
But you may be right also if Jamal have personal reasons to miss the game, but why lie that its an injury if it was truly family reasons?? This is why I find it hard to believe. I guess we will never know.
Melvin
February 16th, 2010
9:58 am
Daniel,
That article was after the Wiz/Mavs trade. Not sure if they would buy Miller out but if they do, I hope we would be in heavy pursuit of him. We could really use his outside shooting in Woody’s jumpshot offense.
terrell
February 16th, 2010
10:01 am
From last blog: Tony said “trade Joe for Bosh the enforcer”. Lol! And he actually had the nerve to start Bibby and Crawford in the backcourt. Wtf? It wouldn’t matter if we had Oakley and Laimbeer in the post with those two trying to guard the perimeter. And btw, where in the hell is Acie Law? No wonder Woody went with T “dribble, dribble” Lue and Anthony “I’m old enough for social security” Johnson. lol! And for the zillionth time, Josh Smith is not a sf.
Tony
February 16th, 2010
10:02 am
Everyone is yapping about the Hawks need for another shooter. They have plenty. The problem is that they are doubled up (Joe, sometimes tripled) by opponents. Without the benefit of a true Big, the shooters can’t get loose. We are fortunate to have the 3rd best record in the East. With a Big, we could be first.
terrell
February 16th, 2010
10:07 am
Fundamentals, people said the same thing about Jamal Crawford before he came to Atlanta. He had no heart, only cared about the $, played no defense, and no real effort when it mattered. Now he’s one of our best players. Get off McGrady’s ….!
terrell
February 16th, 2010
10:09 am
The Hawks have plenty of shooters? We’ve got plenty of guys who like to shoot. But shooters?
O'Brien
February 16th, 2010
10:15 am
I don’t know why, but I have very little confidence in Sund and the ASG that they will spend the extra money needed to bring in a veteran who gets bought out somewhere else. And if they do bring somebody in, I have very little confidence that Woody will utilize them correctly.
Melvin,
Mike Miller would be a good pickup. The irony is Marvin was supposed to be able to knock down the jumpers more consistently, but he’s been inconsistent this year. Hopefully Marvin gets it going, because he might have to be our shooter for the rest of the season.
vava74
February 16th, 2010
10:15 am
Daniel, MsDee,
That conspiracy theory does not make any sense and the answer is in your own posts:
If someone needed an excuse to get Crawford a day off, the simplest thing would be to invoke… personal reasons and not an injury.
Lingering shoulder injuries can easily flare up if you sleep in the wrong position and in order for it to get back to “normal” (which is usually only 95% normal) and avoid aggravating the problem you need to REST.
Right now, I would even consider Mike James as a nice pick up if he still had something in the tank (he’s 35):
He is not a real PG but he can(could) score in bunches and people tend to forget that he was FUNDAMENTAL during a couple of games Pistons championship run doing a “mini-me” impersonation of Vinnie “Microwave” Johnson.
This could be a “deja vu all over again”
I’m delirious… forgive me…
Daniel
February 16th, 2010
10:16 am
terrell- Crawford had a rap for being a poor defensive player and a streaky scorer, but he always had a great rep as a teammate and person in the community. He also has had no significant injuries. T-Mac on the other hand has been oft injured, critical of teammates, considered soft and expendable by the team that signed him to “superstar” money. Very different reps and players and situations. Not a fair comparison.
Tony
February 16th, 2010
10:20 am
Yes T, they have enough shooters…the Hawks avg. the second amount of pts per game in the East. Scoring is not the issue.
Melvin
February 16th, 2010
10:26 am
Let me be more specific. We need a shooter at the backup SF spot with size and capable of scoring off the dribble. Mike Miller anyone…
Tony
February 16th, 2010
10:37 am
The Hawks cant shoot their way to the Finals without defense. Defense wins championships!
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
10:55 am
vava74,
I hear what u are saying also, but never be fooled to believe the impossible. You would be surprise what people (in business) would do to get something done or to prove a point.
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2010
10:57 am
Anyone remember the discussion herre last January/February about Josh’s trade kicker in his contract? Remember why that was even being discussed? Because several were disappointed in his performance after signing a $58M contract and were trying to figurte out if we should trade him.
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
10:59 am
I played basketball in my prime in college against the elite women basketball teams..business deals went on that was not right but it happened.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
February 16th, 2010
11:07 am
I constantly change my opinion about this Hawks team and what they should do, from trying to look at things from different angles.
I was a guy a constantly saying we should make a move too, maybe we should? But I think now I can see a way the Hawks can seriously contend with the team we have now…with adjustments
1) Play with heart and intensity the entire game…..I’m so tired of hearing them say “we just didnt play with energy tonight” in post game interviews.
2) Woodson needs to learn how to use his bench bigs more effectively. When we seem to be getting bullied in the paint, bring in Randmo and Collins. Perhaps they can solve or atleast slow down the problem by putting a big body on whoever the person is that is causing us problems down low. Atleast use those 12 Fouls.
3) Crawford and Joe need to go strong to the hoop more when the jumpers arent working. They both are gifted offensively and can get to the rack, but both rely heavily on jumpers. When crawford does drive to the rack, he goes strong and thats cool. He just needs to do it more when the jumpers arent falling. Joe can also get to the rim but strays away from contact and sometimes forces those floaters at bad angles. He needs to take it up strong sometimes and get to the rim for 2 freebies or an AND-1. This particularly needs to be done when the Js arent falling and the other teams seems to be picking up momentum to build a big lead on us or greatly chop into one of our leads. This would also be useful in the 4th quarter, or any spot when the Hawks desperately need buckets.
Make these adjustments and we should be a contender.
jlewis
February 16th, 2010
11:12 am
MsDee and others, do you not realize JJ had the flu and should not have been playing in Memphis and against Miami anyway? That man plays with heart, and plays sick or hurt, give a guy a break.
Teague
February 16th, 2010
11:12 am
Dammit Woody, put me in the game…
Woody
February 16th, 2010
11:17 am
Dammit Teague, hit a jumper in practice at least once a week. And can you learn the plays, too? Did you go to Wake Forest Community College?
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
11:22 am
Jlewis,
What about those game when he is healthy and Jamal is scoring more than him from the bench?? What about last year when he was healthy and he never showed up for us in the playoffs?? Yes, Joe is a great player to have on our ball club, but dont make him to be a saint on this team cause he is not. Joe needs others to out-do him 1st b4 he shows up in a game. Jamal had to put fire under his butt to perform, Al Horford also put fire under his butt in the All-Star game b4 he showed up. Joe is not a self-motivater, therefore he shouldnt get paid like one.
jlewis
February 16th, 2010
11:29 am
Ok Ms. Dee, how many double and triple teams has JJ faced in the playoffs? How many did he score in game 7 against Miami last year and who carried the Boston Series the year before that? Jamal scores more because he has the ball in his hands and does not play against a double team, just watch for next year, players tend to revert back to what they really are.
jlewis
February 16th, 2010
11:29 am
Also, check the record from last year MsDee, Joe, Marvin and Al were not healthy.
#1 GT FAN
February 16th, 2010
11:41 am
This is what I think the hawks should do………….
Re-sign Joe. Get ride of Marvin and Bibby for as much money as you can. With the money they get from those two, get D WADE.
This would be your starting 5……..
1. D WADE
2. Jamal Crawford
3. Joe Johnson
4. Josh Smith
5. Al Horford
Then you have there backups………..
1. Jeff Teague (you have to give him time to make him better)
2.Moe Evans (or get read of him to, and sign a new younf player
3.??????????? (this is the only one i am not sure about
4. Joe smith (just intil the draft, then you get a new player)
5. ZaZa Pachulia
All in all, it is not going to matter who every body wants, if the owners of the Hawks (or the people with all the money for the Hawks) dont take a chance, and spend some extra money, they will never be any better.
Am I the only one that noticed, but whats up with all the sports owners in Atlanta. They never want to spend any money to have a better team. You would think after so many years of being so bad, they would do any thing to be better. Oh well………..
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
dap01
February 16th, 2010
11:41 am
A normal tactic against a dominating big man is to use the people on a bench to but a body against the opposing big guy to hopefully wear him down physically. You can do that by using the big men on the bench and the 6 fouls that each has.
When was the last time the Hawks used that tactic?
J.J.M.
February 16th, 2010
11:44 am
#1 GT FAN
lets be real now
#1 GT FAN
February 16th, 2010
11:47 am
J.J.M. ………….whats not real about it?
GeeMack
February 16th, 2010
11:47 am
Fundamentals
I think that’s the problem with the Hawks. The organizations focus is not the championship.
The Hawks players, coaches, GM and ownership are more concerned with doing enough to be competitive, and not to win the championship.
Even if Cle, Bos, or Orl didn’t add a soul to their rosters they would give the Hawks fits in a 7 game series because the are more concerned about winning it all.
GeeMack
February 16th, 2010
11:51 am
#1 GT FAN
Marvin can’t be traded until next season, and who would give a quality player for an aging point guard that just signed a new 3 year deal.
Your option sounds good in theory, but does not make good basketball sense.
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2010
11:54 am
Some of you are well-rested from your ASG break and are once again sounding like fans of the Nets as opposed to fans of the #3 seeded team in the East (and one game behind 32). Seriously, take a breath and remember that we are 3 seasons removed from scouting lottery-level picks.
Ramon
February 16th, 2010
12:00 pm
MsDee, Joe was injured in the playoffs last season. And Joe did do a pretty good job on Wade (or as good as can be done) when he was called upon. Is JJ worth max? No, but I do think he’s worth $16-17 mil a season. But at the same time I would ask him would he rather make 17 a season, or make 15.5 and have Sund able to get one or two more veterans for the team.
Daniel
February 16th, 2010
12:04 pm
Astro, astro, astro- I keep reminding you that there is no place on this blog for patience, big picture thinking or reasonableness. You must panic, you must come up with crazy unworkable trade scenario’s, you must state the obvious to try and look smarter, and you must have an agenda (besides just rooting for the Hawks) something like, it’s all….(woodson, joe, bibby, marvin) fault or its all about MINUTES!! or well you get the point.
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
12:24 pm
Jlewis,
Sorry to say but those are still accuses for a guy who wants max money but doesnt perform for that money. LeBron and Koby both has played being ill but still performed better than Joe. Now Im only comparing Joe with those two b/c he wants their money and dont deserve it. I give you Joe being double teamed but you too need to remember, that was last year when they had no other true scorer on the court. This year, we have Jamal and you very seldom see Joe doubled-teamed anymore, so you really cant use the double-team accuse anymore.
Now you only mensioned one game 7 in Miami and that only 1 game in the Boston series and u say he should be prasied at that 2 big games he has had with the Hawks?? WOW!! Out of 80+ games in a season, he deserves max money for 2 big games??? Dont think so..
Ramon,
Ok, Joe did get hurt in the playoffs, but that next game he looked fine to me but still under-achieved. Again, I’m not saying Joe is not a great player cause he is, just doest deserve the big money, that’s all i’m saying.
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
12:37 pm
GeeMack,
Cle and Orl were 2 teams already there to win the finals, that’s why its smart for them to add small pieces to make it happen and win it all. Now the true reason that Boston went all out to get the big 3 were b/c they were the Nets of today. It wont hurt but truly help a bad team if they spent all in all to get the best players out there. Heck, is that not what The Knicks, Washington, and others are doing? Well, that makes sense but what doesnt make sense is to be where we are and give up core players to get other core players in return. What good in replacing a Denzel for a LL Kool J? Both are very SEXY!! We need to improve the bench..get Chills back and a center and we are there. Unforturely, we dont have the proper pieces to make that happen so the Hawks should continue to get better, get Woodson to use what he has, and we will still be respected.
Fundamentals
February 16th, 2010
1:09 pm
Urgency & Determination is what we need!
I agree with GeeMack, we strive to meet expectations instead of doing our best and seeing where it takes us. We’ve gotta get the mentality that we can win agains the big 3…or 2 now that we’ve destroyed Boston.
Joe has committed to letting the market set his value. His contract will be based on who offers what. I’m guessing the Hawks will try their best to match.
Our ownership let the market dictate things with Josh and Chills. They got terrible press for it. They didn’t offer until someone else did. Chills brokered a deal with Greece, which may be a good financial move, but it cost him. It was obvious he wanted to play here, but no one really offered what he felt he was worth.
With Josh they really hurt his feelings by waiting so long. It wasn’t ASG’s fault that nobody offered till very late. In the end he learned a tough lesson. He learned to produce first then demand, not the opposite. Now he’s focussed, working hard and trying to prove he’s worth it.
Joe is comfortable waiting it out. I think it’ll give him flexibility to see which direction we go. He’s done alot for this franchise whether we like to admit it or not. He deserves the right to choose his own path. If he chooses us, we’ll get him at market value. If not he’ll move on. It will be dissappointing, but he deserves that right.
All these questions will be resolved this summer.
Why not focus on the stretch drive instead of pipe dreams?
Get real people!
Mel
February 16th, 2010
1:28 pm
damn, the Blazers just made a move for Camby, according to Yahoo! Sports.
Ramon
February 16th, 2010
1:33 pm
MsDee, allow me to ask you this. Do you think Joe is not worth a MINIMUM of what Brandon Roy is receiving? Behind Kobe and Wade, Joe is still the third best SG in the game, and he’s in the top 5-6 guard (pg or sg) in the league. Brandon Roy salary will goto $14 million next year with 10.5% raises each year. Joe is worth $15-17 mil with annual raise. Joe shooting percentage is up to 47% this season, which would mark the second best shooting season since he’s been here. If this season he’s making $14.9 million, and the franchise is in a much better position now than it was when he got here. It is hard to argue that he’s not worth a salary raise. He’s accomplished more than McGrady, Penny, Richmond, and Grant Hill, each who were superstars. In my mind, Josh, Al, and Joe should be the three amigos for a long time.
Fundamentals
February 16th, 2010
1:40 pm
If we can sign Joe for 15-17, keep Crawford, keep Al Horford & look for young motivated, rising talent to replace expiring and aging folks on our bench we stand to be great for several years to come.
terrell
February 16th, 2010
1:42 pm
Dont even go there Astro. We’ll be saying the same thing about Marvin next year. He seems to be degressing. On the other hand, we all knew what Josh could do, when he played his game. He just aggravates the heck out of everybody sometimes.
terrell
February 16th, 2010
2:02 pm
Is Mike Bibby going to be the Hawks starting pg for 2 MORE years, AFTER THIS ONE? Probably so, if Woody is still the Coach. Scary thought! Sund was never known to be a draft guru. Horrible for that matter. Now he doesn’t look to good with his signings either. Crawford was a steal, but after that???? Zaza 4 yrs 18 mill? Marvin 4 yr 30 mill, with a player option for the 5th year? Bibby for 3 freakin years? Mo Evans for 2 MORE years? Jason Collins 1 mill for extra cheeseburgers? Joe “cant hit a jumper” Smith for another mill? If this was BK, you guys would be killin him. Dont know if I can blame it all on Sund though. Looks like some of these signings were Woody influenced. Now if we win the division, I’ll eat my words, but it aint looking to good for the hometeam. Nothing to trade, when everyones looking to deal is making me miserable?
BosnianBaller
February 16th, 2010
2:13 pm
No moves for the Hawks this year.Marvin and Childress will be shipped in the offseason together
Michael Cunningham
February 16th, 2010
2:15 pm
@daniel: i caught up with the team at its hotel so i only got like 30 seconds with Jamal before he hopped on an elevator and headed up to his room. see what i can find out today.
Let's get real
February 16th, 2010
2:38 pm
Offense
Come playoff time we will lose our best weapon which is fast break pt’s. We simply do not play as well in a half court set. We are a jump shooting team and like all jump shooting teams we are streaky. You and the neighbors dog know opposing teams will try to take away JJ/Jamal. It is proven it will work. Good ball movement is the only thing that can make them pay for the double teams. Something we have not accomplished yet on a consistent basis.
The best way to improve the team is keep working on our counter punch. It’s a little redundant but only good ball movement will make that happen. Al/Josh and Marvin being more involved and getting more attempts in a position to score will determine if we get through the first round, second round and the holy grail of ECF. And of course they have to come through.
Come playoff time the shooting guards JJ and Jamal can carry a few games but will need help to win a series. If we do not improve develop that counter punch in the last 30 games I fear JJ and Jamal taking over simply will not work. Are they good players having career years? Yes. Can they carry us alone through series after series? I think not.
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
2:41 pm
Ramon,
Yes, Joe is worth the miniunm of what Brandon Roy is making but not the max of what Lebron & Wade are making. Joe himself said he is on the same level as those guys. I think he was smoking when he said that. To me Brandon Roy & Joe are alike in many ways, but neither is on the level of the elite players.
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
2:50 pm
Another key to championship teams are true motivating leaders on the team. The Cavs has Lebron, the Lakers have Kobe, Miami (when they won the title) has Wade, Boston has KG & Paul, and Orl has their coach to yell and motivate. Who do we have?? Joe? No, too quiet.. Josh? No, gets too over excited with the refs..Jamal? No, he doesnt want to step on anybody toes too soon. Bibby? Could be, but rather pass the torch to someone else. Al? Should be, but would anyone listen?? Coach Woodson? No, cause no one listens to him, esp w/o no eyebrows. We need a leader/motivator.
O'Brien
February 16th, 2010
2:58 pm
MsDee,
Of course Joe is going to say he is on the same level as those guys. It would not be a smart business decision if he said “he is on the level right below them”. But for what its worth, I agree with you. He is not on their level, and the Hawks need a leader on the court.
Ramon,
One big difference between now and when Joe got here was the economy and the salary cap. And keep in mind that David Stern suggested that the salary cap will be even lower next year, and I’m sure the BASG will not want to go over the luxury tax.
And I think you’re right on the money. Brandon Roy signed a 5 year $82 mil contract extension, and I think JJ is worth more than that. If the Hawks offer 5 years $90 mil, or 6 years, $102 mil (6th yr option), will that be enough to keep him? I hope so, because if we lose JJ, we will be taking a HUGE step back.
The problem is, depending on the deal we give JJ, Crawford is going to want a raise from his $9.5 mil salary when his contract is up.
terrell,
I agree that even when Josh was making boneheaded plays, he still showed flashes of what he can do, And he was still impacting the game in other ways, whereas Marvin tends to disappear more often than not.
But although I’ve been on Marvin’s case a lot this year, his contract is not terrible, and he still has time to turn it around. For the Hawks sake, I hope he does, because if he ever gets it going offensively, that will be another weapon for the Hawks.
Ramon
February 16th, 2010
3:02 pm
MsDee, I understand he’s not worth Lebron and Wade money. But no one is saying he should get 20 a year, and no one expects him to. And to be honest, THIS season, Joe has played as good as Wade has. Wade is averaging 2 more fg attempts and 5 more free throw attempts a game than Joe. If Joe was averaging the same attempts as Wade, he would be averaging around the same amount of ppg. But Joe didn’t say he was elite, he said he wanted to take his game to the elite level like Kobe and Wade. If he’s an all star, and only 28, why wouldn’t he want to improve his game to the elite level. In my opinion, Joe is better now than Pierce ever was. But Pierce was considered the MVP of the Big Three.
When you think about there’s nothing to suggest that we’ve seen the best basketball from Joe and that he won’t at least be at this level for 4-5 more years, you can’t argue with his worthiness of a pay raise. He did everything ASG paid him to do. He lead the team in scoring, assists, steals, and minutes per game in majority of his time here. He changed the perception of the team from laughable stock to part of the ‘Big Four’ now in the east. Without question, he’s better than any one to put on a Hawks’ jersey since Mr. Wilkins. And to make it better is you won’t find an all star who is as durable as he is. Out of 8 seasons in the league, Joe has only had one season where he didn’t play in at least 79 games. I would offer Joe a 4 year $67-70 million contract with a team option for a 5th season.
A Hawks Fan
February 16th, 2010
3:10 pm
Clippers just traded camby to Portland for Outlaw and Blake. Good news for the Hawks game tomorrow, especially since Outlaw is currently not playing due to injury.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4918893
jerrywest
February 16th, 2010
3:12 pm
There should be two different NBA playoffs. One with teams those are paying luxury taxes, and another for the poor franchises. Hawks will win the title in the poor NBA.
Ramon
February 16th, 2010
3:14 pm
O’Brien, I doubt Crawford expects to get $10 mil a year from any team in 2 years. Crawford would be lucky to continue to make 8-9 mil a year. Also trading Bibby or Marvin would free up a lot of salary cap room. And I don’t see any team short of a lottery team offering Joe a max contract. The funny thing is though, all the free agents have stated for them its all about winning. But in the case of Lebron and Joe, there is no team that they could sign with who would have a better winning plan than their current team.
Ramon
February 16th, 2010
3:15 pm
Jerrywest, lol I’d say Oklahoma City would win the poor NBA lol.
Tony
February 16th, 2010
3:26 pm
MacTown,
That’s what I’m talkin bout! We have 3 7fters and are not utilizing them. Either trade for a Big, or use those 12 to 18 fouls (Zsa Zsa included). I say start the rest of the season with one of the 3 Bigs in the lineup to get them all ready for the playoff run! How bout that!
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2010
3:40 pm
OB, what is the relationship between Joe’s next contract and Jamal’s request?
Our bench is weak
February 16th, 2010
3:40 pm
I would suggest Either JJ or Jamal need to be on the floor the entire game and both the last 7 minutes. Having neither player on the floor for any streach of time leaves us lacking offensive punch. The same goes with Al and Josh, one of these studs need to be on the floor at all times. If both are out at the same time we are exposed in rebounding and an inside threat.
Starting Evans and ZaZa would still give us a potent offense and defense that works well with Bibby. When the second unit of Al with Jamal/ Marvin and Teague helps hide the weakness of our bench.
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2010
3:43 pm
Ramon, Chicago could sign Joe, add him to Rose, Noah and Deng and have a very, very competitive team.
Not enough money
February 16th, 2010
3:43 pm
The problem is, depending on the deal we give JJ, Crawford is going to want a raise from his $9.5 mil salary when his contract is up.
If JJ goes max, somebody has to go. Jamal or Al or who? Cap is shrinking, how do we pay everybody?
Michael Cunningham
February 16th, 2010
3:46 pm
Jamal says no conspiracy story behind shoulder injury. he slept on it wrong. he had me compare his right shoulder to his left and you can feel the knot on the left shoulder.
Ramon
February 16th, 2010
3:48 pm
Astro, would you say Rose, Joe, and Noah is better than Joe, Josh, and Horford?
Ramon
February 16th, 2010
3:48 pm
I’m sorry I mean Rose, Joe and Deng (not Noah).
Big Ump
February 16th, 2010
3:50 pm
Funddamentals, Astro Joe
Great post as always.
AtlSouthside
February 16th, 2010
3:57 pm
MC, worst case scenario…. if JJ leaves, who’s his replacement?
Big Ump
February 16th, 2010
3:59 pm
M C
Thanks . I hope that stop some of this conspiracy junk, But knowing this blog they will add you to the conspiracy also.
Traceman
February 16th, 2010
4:20 pm
Man, it is UNBELIEVABLE to me how unappreciated JJ is around this place! The dude talks about wanting to come back from the break and set the tone for how we play as a scrappy team for the rest of the season and all he gets is hate. He fights his way through the flu to play 2 nights in row (44 minutes in the last game) but instead of getting praised for giving it a go, he gets bashed for not being able to carry the team. I guess he should have been more like Jamal and just sat out with a little shoulder strain. Of course if JJ had sat out, he would have been labeled soft so he couldn’t win either way with this crowd.
Those who think Crawford is BETTER than JJ or even as good, are you serious? Can you EVER envision a scenario where JJ gets traded for the likes of Speedy Claxton and Acie Law?
Crawford is having a CAREER year, largely because of the presence of JJ (shout out to Woody for getting the most out of him as well). Crawford has never shot the ball so well and he has never had so many good looks at the basket. The thing about it is I’m sure that Jamal knows this and he appreciates everything that JJ brings to the table, even if many of you don’t. Crawford is a great teammate and thankfully, neither he nor JJ know anything about the rift that many here would like to create between he and JJ.
As for whether or not JJ deserves the max salary, like any other FA, he deserves whatever amount of money the market says he’s worth and the market is going to say he is worth very close to the max. Rashard Lewis isn’t as good as LeBron or D Wade either but the market at the time dictated his worth. Bosh and Amare aren’t as good as LeBron and D Wade either but both will probably get paid as much as those two.
The players agreed to the maximum salary provision in the current CBA in order to allow MORE players to get the max (or close) salaries rather than having the Jordans, Shaqs, KGs, etc get these astronomical contracts while other very good players got less. If the rules of the previous CBA were still in place, LeBron might get $250M on his next deal. Since LeBron can’t get $250M, the idea is to spread those salaries around so that more players get paid. Player’s like JJ, Brandon Roy, Deron Williams, Bosh and Amare. All All-Stars but none are the best players at their positions in the NBA.
Hopefully JJ doesn’t read this board. It would be a shame for our best player to see just how unappreciated he is by his so-called fans. Might be enough to make him want to go the NY or CHI where he would be made a KING.
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
4:27 pm
Ramon,
I understand and agree with you. Joe did do what ASG asked him to do by leading in scoring and assists but i would also like it if Joe would recognize sometimes when to score and when to pass for an assist inorder to win the games he has worked so hard to do such as the Chicago game where he scored game high 41 points but got cold toward the end when we really needed a basket. Instead of continuing to shoot the ball and miss, he should have put up more assists at that time by looking for Jamal who were also shooting well in that game. Be more of a team player when you are the “superstar” of the team. Dont have just one player being high in all the stats but allow others on the team increase their stats as well, esp if they are on as well so that it could throw off the other teams. Like the year the Pistons won it all..no superstars but the team collectively.
Not trying to hate on Joe cause I love him on our team and would love to keep him. Im just a die hard fan who sees the Hawks doing so much more than what they are doing.
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
4:35 pm
Traceman,
Not throwing hate toward Joe but Joe needs to exert himself more like those other players you mention. Case in point, he started the all-star game..THE ALL-STAR game and looked forgetable against the others. He didnt look like an all-star til his 1st-timer teammate Al Horford woke him up. I hope Joe is reading this, maybe he could look back at that all-star game and see what we are seeing..Not hating, just speaking the truth.
Traceman
February 16th, 2010
4:37 pm
Ramon,
I would say that Rose, JJ and Deng versus JJ, Smoove and Al is a virtual dead heat. Rose and JJ would easily form the best backcourt in basketball and Deng is a VERY solid SF. With Noah at C, all that team would need is a solid PF and they would be awfully good.
bigdave
February 16th, 2010
4:42 pm
i bet this guy has never had a conversation with Josh or anyone associated with him (teamates coaches, etc.) kills me how media will take an (oooold) incident and define a players career by it…
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100208/two
By Bill Simmons
ESPN.com
22. Josh Smith
It’s heartwarming to see a talented player with two fatal flaws — in this case, the inability to get along with others, as well as a terrible jumper that he kept insisting on shooting — suddenly have the epiphany, “Maybe I’ll play a season without doing the two things that drive everyone so crazy about me.”
Semi-related note: This year’s draft is head case-heavy, so it will be fascinating to see whether the recent successes of Smith and Z-Bo remove the “STAY AWAY!!!!” neon signs flashing on the foreheads of the 2010 draft class. Hell, we might even see DeMarcus Cousins get drafted ahead of Evan Turner this June, which should never happen unless it’s a draft for the likelihood of someone uttering the sentence, “Don’t hang up, you’re my only phone call!”
Traceman
February 16th, 2010
4:47 pm
Ms Dee,
No offense but I think you are speaking YOUR version of the truth. I think JJ brings FAR more to the table than he gets credit for.
As for the All Star game, JJ is simply not as athletically gifted as LeBron, D Wade, Kobe, Durant, etc and his game does NOT translate to the All Star setting AT ALL. JJ can “exert himself” all he wants but he will NEVER be able to perform the aerial acrobatics of those guys.
JJ is best in a structured environment, not in a free flowing, up and down, high rise showcase event. Al’s game is not really suited to shine in the All Star game either. Jamal and Smoove would have looked FAR better than JJ and Al in that type of setting because their games ARE suited for that kind of play. They don’t call JJ the “Silent Assassin” for nothing. He’s not flashy but he gets the job done.
PUBLIX
February 16th, 2010
5:10 pm
I agree with one of the gentleman above, we need to make a big addition either now or after this season. JJ has to go. He is not a leader and doesn’t sell tickets. Make Portland an offer since they have 4 C now. Try to sign Wade, if it’s not possible, I would go for T-Mac as last resort. He will at least sell tickets in this city. Maybe he’ll stay healthy as well.
MsDee
February 16th, 2010
5:15 pm
Traceman,
I didnt say Joe was “athletically gifted” like LeBron or Wade, I said he should have exerted himself more like he eventually did in the all-star game after Al came in and did what he always do, play smart ball. Dont get me wrong, as I been saying, Joe is a great player but he needs others to motivate him. He should be self-motivating Silent Assassin, not dependent apond what others do 1st..that’s all I got on the Joe Johnson subject..take care!!
bigdave
February 16th, 2010
5:15 pm
uh… ok.
wcj
February 16th, 2010
5:26 pm
Enter your comments here
Bill
February 16th, 2010
5:28 pm
The Hawks start the second half with 10 of their next 16 games on the road.
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2010
5:29 pm
The role of Vinnie Johnson is one that will likely be performed by many actors. In previous years, Chill was our double-digit scorer off the bench. Last year, it was Flip. This year, Jamal. Who knows who plays it in the future. But I wouldn’t consider Jamal a member of the team’s core as much as I would consider the role of Vinnie Johnson as a part of this team’s core identity. We will have some guys who are better at it than others (like Jamal) but it is doubtful that we will ever pay a premium for the Vinnie guy.
And surely, we will NEVER allow the Vinnie guy to interfere with keeping a young big like Horford. How could anyone even suggest that keeping a really good 6th man may impact our ability to keep a 23 YO All-Star center?
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2010
5:31 pm
And if you’re too young too remmeber Vinnie Johnson… substitute that name with Manu Ginobli, Jason Terry or Leandro Barbosa… and the point remains the same.
GeeMack
February 16th, 2010
5:36 pm
Astro & Daniel,
I think the fans are exicited about the possibilities, and they want to see the Hawk capitalize on this opportunity.
Astro you mentioned the Hawks being 3 yrs removed from lottery land, which is very accurate, but so are the Celtics and Magic. The Lakers are 3 years removed from being barley over .500 (42-40), and the Cavs are 2 yrs remove from 45-37.
When fans see the elite teams make whatever adjustments needed to get to championship level, I think that excitement breeds bigger expectations.
I have seen this franchise have 7 winning seasons in the 80’s and 7 in the 90’s. However the organization became complacent and never capitalized on the Nique era or the Smitty & Deke era.
We don’t want to miss the opportunity to win it all. It’s not like it comes every 7 years like the Lakers.
The current approach is working, but JJ may not be here next year and this the year we are right there with the elite teams.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 16th, 2010
5:37 pm
“Can you EVER envision a scenario where JJ gets traded for the likes of Speedy Claxton and Acie Law? ”
In fairness, JJ got traded for Boris Diaw and two first-round picks, one of which wasn’t in the lottery.
That said, I agree that JJ is a better player than Crawford. Of course JJ has his flaws, but Crawford is in an ideal position for a shoot-first, shoot-second player, playing on a team where he’s just required to come in and score.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 16th, 2010
5:43 pm
Apparently the Wizards are buying out Drew Gooden, making him a free agent. Chances are it would take the veterans’ minimum to sign him for the rest of the year. Gooden is not a good defender, but he is a good rebounder and if nothing else would be a huge upgrade over Joe Smith. Considering the Hawks’ very limited capacity for making trades right now, this is probably the best chance the Hawks have to upgrade the roster. If money really isn’t an issue for the Hawks, they should try to bring in Drew.
terrell
February 16th, 2010
6:02 pm
I’d take Gooden over ANYBODY on our bench, not named Jamal.
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2010
6:05 pm
GeeMack, those 4 teams, Magic, Cavs, Celtics and Lakers have amongst the highest payrolls in the NBA. The Cavs have this generation’s best player and the Magic have this generation’s best center. The Celtics mortgaged their future (Jefferson and draft picks) for a title and won’t likely see another Finals appearance in the next 5+ years (they pulled a Miami Heat). The Lakers are, well, the Lakers. They probably make more money in 10 home games as the Hawks all season.
I’ve said it many times before, if the Hawks have a run like what Sacramento had during the C-Web, Bibby, Peja, Vlade days, I would be more than content. This notion of winning the title sounds great but it requires a level of ownership and fan support that is not likely to happen here in Atlanta. I think our upside is being relevant and exciting for a 4-6 year run. Beyond that, I think we will be chasing our tail and frustrated when we get dizzy.
KevinA
February 16th, 2010
6:18 pm
Najeh,
If this is true, we should jump on Gooden.
Speed it up
February 16th, 2010
6:25 pm
JJ and Bibby are slow it down half court players. Trade them for Rose and create some exitement.
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2010
6:27 pm
Rose? Let’s just trade Mario West for Chris Paul and RandMo for Dwight Howard and start cutting up paper for the confetti parade.
Huge Trade
February 16th, 2010
6:35 pm
Works on trade machine
Huge trade
Rose
Dang
Noah
Miller
for
JJ
Bibby
ZaZa
Evans
GMAN013
February 16th, 2010
6:39 pm
wouldn’t it be easier just to become fans of the bulls if you’re gonna make that trade
Smaller trade
February 16th, 2010
6:44 pm
Rose and Miller for ZaZa and JJ.
Need a PG
February 16th, 2010
6:47 pm
A good PG that can utilize Josh, Marvin and Al overcomes the JJ ISO that stagments our offense and the terrible defense of Bibby with that horrible contract were locked into.
Why waste their best years
February 16th, 2010
6:49 pm
Al and Josh and to a smaller part Marvin have been living second fiddle to guard play. Time for a better future. Lets go for team ball.
O'Brien
February 16th, 2010
6:51 pm
AJ,
This is merely specualtion on my part, but if JJ signs for $20 mil, Crawford might expect $14 mil (which would make it harder for the Hawks to keep him). But if JJ signs for $16 mil, Crawford might be good with $10 mil.
For example, JJ’s contract discussions will probably start at Brandon Roy’s level. 5 years, $82 mil and go from there. JJ’s financial value to the team will help Crawford determine his financial value.
Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I’m not saying Crawford is better than JJ, because we all know he isnt. But he might see himself as being worth $4-$6 mil less than whatever JJ signs for.
Whatever it takes though, Hawks need to give JJ his money.
Najeh,
Is there anyone out there in Hawksville who dont think its about the money? Gooden will be a good pickup, because if Joe Smith gets hurt again, we could be in trouble. And Gooden will be an option instead of Joe Smith too.
Why waste their best years
February 16th, 2010
6:54 pm
GMAN013,
You seem to miss the fact we keep Josh and Al. Miller is a better fit than ZaZa. Dang is not as good as JJ but can shoot.Rose and Bibby – get real – the key to the trade.
Will it work?
February 16th, 2010
6:57 pm
O’Brien,
All of your scenarios break the bank. Unless you drop the idea of resigning Al.
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2010
7:18 pm
OB, I wouldn’t sweat how Crawford may interpret Joe’s deal. IMO, he’s not a core member of this team in the future. I think that there is a very good chance that once Joe re-signs, Crawford gets traded. Jamal was acquired in part to be an insurance policy for both Bibby (last summer) and Joe (this summer). Once Joe signs, Sund needs to determine if he wants a $10M 6th man (who will likely leave the following summer for a starting position) or trade him to address another need and add a cheaper Vinnie Johnson player.
I’ll also add this, IMO, Teague won’t fully blossom with Jamal on this team (or any other dominant combo guard). Teague is much closer to a combo guard himself than he is a pure playmaker. He needs to be free to score and that won’t likely happen if he is sharing back-up duties with Jamal. Put him in the backcourt with someone like Mo Evans, Damien Wilkins or even a previously drafted Euro project and he may find a more comfortable path to his natural game.
All about the situation
February 16th, 2010
7:24 pm
If we were a team not likely to make the playoffs Teague would get huge minutes and mature much faster. Josh is the perfect example. He had the time and minutes to grow and 5 years later it has paid off. Woody coaching for his paycheck next year has no time or patience for such thought.
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2010
7:24 pm
Gooden would be a great add because he could play minutes at C (as he has in his recent past) in case Zaza is ineffective/hurt or if Joe Smith continues to play like Alan Henderson.
Of course, a team that is still short on bigs like Portland may be able to offer him more playing time (and therefore a better opportunity to earn more than a 1-year contract this summer).
Whatever happened to Rashard McCants?
Lets blow up the team
February 16th, 2010
7:44 pm
JJ is hot, Jamal is hot. Will they be hot three years from now? I would bet on the upside of Marvin, Al and Josh. They have upside. A trade now for JJ and next year for Jamal seems only smart. Without the new CBA I might think different, but times are changing and we need to stay ahead of the curve new hard cap coming.
Michael Cunningham
February 16th, 2010
7:57 pm
by the way, Jamal reads the blog and your comments. when i asked him about the shoulder, he immediately said: “yeah, i saw they are on you about that.” FYI . . .
Jamal my man
February 16th, 2010
8:07 pm
Love your game except for one thing. You should be around 6 assists a game. If you accomplish this it would actually get you more touches and make JJ more tradeable. You are getting many of Bibby’s minutes, you are not a PG but – just saying – you have the ability to do both. Not to late to teach an old dog new tricks.
Sautee
February 16th, 2010
8:07 pm
AJ,
How can you disparage Hendu that way?
Jamal my man
February 16th, 2010
8:10 pm
No disrespect,
To JJ. Bibby is getting long in the tooth and between the two of you the bigs need touches. You know as well as I do they will kick it back much of the time. You my man are the key to the newer and better version of team ball. JJ will follow your lead – lets make it a race in assists from two stars.
Blast
February 16th, 2010
8:36 pm
That was way too funny! Two playoffs in the NBA. One for the rich teams and one for the poor!
I did think about Jamal’s injury, but it just made me realize how dependent Hawks are on this guy. Without him, Hawks are simply the same team as last year, maybe worse with no Flip. Starters can’t do it alone and if Hawks bench score 8 points in a game? Yeesh!
Astro, JJ sign with Hawks or not, I do not think Jamal will be traded, unless the trade was for a duper super center. Remember, Hawks had to make him committ not to opt out of his 2nd year. That Miami game proved that he is our entire bench. The team needs this guy now and beyond. Good to know he cares enough to see what fans think about the team by reading the blogs.
Really interested to see how Hawks handle the game tomorrow and the entire West road trip. Glad to have our top reserves back.
rusty
February 16th, 2010
10:07 pm
jj is not that good he dribbles way to much & invites double & tribble teams,unfortunately he doesnt pass out of them well. he is inconsistant & does not show up all the time,takes bad shots. if the hawks had any brains they would trade him for a center or point guard.
terrell
February 17th, 2010
9:20 am
Cant believe Charlotte lost to NJ at home. lol!