Atlanta Hawks (no) trade primer
Los Angeles–My editor sent me a note today with a question: “Why AREN’T the Hawks in the Stoudemire chase?”
So I stopped staring out at my balcony view of Marina del Rey long enough to collect my thoughts on the matter. Tough gig.
I know it’s the kind of question Hawks fans have, too. They look at their team’s holes, hear about all the big deals going down (or being talked about) in the league and wish the Hawks would get in on Stoudemire or some other stud.
So I will attempt to answer my boss’s question and yours without boring or confusing you:
1. The Suns are looking to shed salary and the Hawks have no large expiring contracts to match up with Amare’s $16.4 million salary other than Joe Johnson’s $15 million.
2. The Hawks aren’t willing to deal J.J. or other core players with value (Smoove, Jamal and Horford) and haven’t received interest in players they might be willing to part with.
3. Hawks ownership, which still must maintain flexibility for its efforts to re-sign Johnson this summer, isn’t inclined to take on future salary. Part of the reason the Suns are looking to deal Stodemire is his $17.7 million player option for next season. Even if Stoudemire doesn’t invoke the option, he’ll be looking to re-sign for a long-term deal.
Those explanations can apply to why the Hawks aren’t on any of the big money guys you hear in trade rumors. It doesn’t make sense to trade J.J., Smoove or Horford (who remember is still a great bargain at $4.3 million). The Hawks just don’t have any other real assets (expiring contracts, young starters on the rise) or the financial wherewithal to make a major deal.
And all of you including Marvin Williams in your wishful trade thinking need to remember that he’s a base-year compensation player. Assuming another team covets Williams, which is no sure thing considering his decline in production, the Hawks can only use half of his $7.5 million salary under the traded player exception for teams over the salary cap.
In other words, if they traded Williams they could only take back 125 percent plus $100,00 of $3.75 million, or about $4.8 million, instead of $8.9 million. For Williams this holds true until after June 30. The BYC rule is designed to prevent teams from exploiting a loophole in the traded player exception and as you can see it serves as a strong disincentive to trade players like Williams.
– The Hawks still aren’t getting calls about Johnson because there’s no point. The Hawks aren’t dealing him.
– From what I’m hearing, there’s nothing to that rumor about the Hawks looking to deal Mo Evans and a throw-in contract to Milwaukee for Kurt Thomas. It didn’t make much sense when I heard it because the Hawks don’t seem to have much enthusiasm for Thomas and the Bucks aren’t looking to add future salary (Mo has a player option for $2.5 million for next season).
Maybe Thomas would add a bit of defensive toughness and vet leadership but he’s not the big body the Hawks need. And who would be the Hawks’ wing off the bench if Mo is gone?
– The Hawks are interested in Boston forward Rasheed Wallace but the Celtics apparently aren’t interested in dealing him. It was probably a long shot anyway since (here it is again) ownership doesn’t seem inclined to take on future money. Wallace has two years and about $13 million left on his contract after this season.
– I was surprised to see the Clippers deal Marcus Camby to Portland for Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake. The Clippers sent away a good player with an expiring $7.5 million contract (and who had expressed interest in staying with the team) for two decent players with expiring contracts.
The Hawks like Camby, who I think would be a great fit, but they wouldn’t have been to use their players with expiring deals to match his salary in a trade. Also, the Clippers apparently needed a backup point guard for the short term and the Hawks don’t have one to offer with an expiring deal. The Clippers also will receive cash in the deal and maybe that was the main consideration.
– One good thing about the relative quiet around the Hawks this week: no distractions.
“Haven’t said not one word (about trades),” Woody said. “I’m sure these guys are aware of (the deadline). I haven’t heard anything about our team in terms of trade. Most of these guys besides the ‘rook (Jeff Teague) have been around a long time and know sometimes your name will be mentioned in trade rumors. It’s part of the game.”
MC
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237 comments Add your comment
payaso
February 17th, 2010
4:48 pm
Nate Robinson is now with the Celtics. Tell horford to go in hiding.
Fundamentals
February 17th, 2010
4:48 pm
Truth shall set you free! He has all day today.
At least I don’t talk to myself when I post things that make me look like an idiot.
Astro Joe
February 17th, 2010
4:50 pm
I’ll be interested to see how Joe manifests his statement about “leading a more focused team” (I may have mis-paraphrased his quote but I think that is directionally correct). Does that mean he is shooting the first 8 shots of the game, he will play tighter defense to set the tone early, he will look to pass initially to set-up his teammates or none of the above? So I’ll be focused on the first quarter mostly.
OK, and I also don’t expect to be able to stay up all night, so my attention will likely last until about 10:45 before I crash and burn. Just offering a little truth to the liar’s table.
Truth-Serum
February 17th, 2010
4:51 pm
Ill meet you guys here after the second round and we can continue this conversation. Its the same one from last year.
Have a nice day girls.
Fundamentals
February 17th, 2010
4:52 pm
Why would NY give up Nate for House? Bad deal for the Knicks. Look out for a revamped Celtics squad. That’ll hurt.
Fundamentals
February 17th, 2010
4:53 pm
Good, no more Truth Serum until say, JUNE. Adios buddy! Hope you’re a man of your word.
Truth-Serum
February 17th, 2010
4:55 pm
Truth shall set you free! He has all day today.-Fundamentals
Just offering a little truth to the liar’s table – Astro Joe
Thanks guys. I do what I can. So many whiny bytches around here youve got to be quick on your feet.
Nice to be appreciated!
Truth-Serum
February 17th, 2010
4:55 pm
Truth shall set you free! He has all day today.-Fundamentals
Just offering a little truth to the liar’s table – Astro Joe
Thanks guys. I do what I can. So many whiny bytches around here youve got to be quick on your feet.
Rod from College Park
February 17th, 2010
5:02 pm
Nate to the Celtics puts us behind the Celtic’s again. There is word that J. Pargo want’s a trade from Chicago. I know that he has not played a lot this year, but he would be an upgrade over Teague for the stretch run since Woody won’t play Teague. He is a vet, and he can knock down the wide open three like Bibby. He was deadly in N.O. when he was on the floor with C. Paul. He used to kill the Hawks also.
For Real
February 17th, 2010
5:10 pm
Here is the lineup the Hawks should use when they play Cleveland or Orlando:
Hawks Cleveland Orlando
PG: Joe Johnson 6-7 Mo Williams 6-1 Jameer Nelson 6-1
SG: Marvin Williams 6-9 Delonte West 6-3 Vince Carter 6-6
SF: Josh Smith 6-9 Lebron 6-8 Rashard Lewis 6-10
PF: Al Horford 6-10 Varejao 6-11 Mickael Pietrus 6-6
C: ZaZa 6-11 Shaq 7-1 Dwight Howard 6-11
So all this talk about not matching up with Cleveland and Orlando is crazy. The coach needs to be more creative.
For Real
February 17th, 2010
5:12 pm
Also, there isn’t another 4 in the NBA that runs the floor like
Joe
Marvin
Josh
Horford
Melvin
February 17th, 2010
5:29 pm
The Celtics picks up a midget and now yall ready to crown them. I don’t see how this move makes them better. They traded a knockdown shooter for a pint-size chuncker… This move shouldnt pump any fear into the Hawks…
Traceman
February 17th, 2010
5:39 pm
Melvin, I agree. What are the Celtics going to do, bench Rondo or Allen so that Nate can play? Fine by me!
Traceman
February 17th, 2010
5:41 pm
Astro Joe,
I want to see what JJ does tonight as well. I hope I can hang in long enough to at least watch the first half.
Marvin Williams
February 17th, 2010
5:42 pm
You guys need to stay up late tonight and watch the show. I’m about to go off!
Jody
February 17th, 2010
5:47 pm
I might be in the minority here, but if it is true that the Celtics have acquired Nate Robinson, I think it’s a good move for them. Say what you will about Nate, but recent history (especially against the Hawks) has shown that he can change games with his ability to attack the basket and make big shots.
Astro Joe
February 17th, 2010
5:56 pm
Nate will bring some youthful energy to the Boston Nursing Home.
Regular Fan
February 17th, 2010
5:57 pm
I just read in the “NY Times” where the Knicks are giddy about their chances of trading for Tracy McGrady. Not so much for his talent, but for his contract expiring at the end of the season. What kind of crap does this say about the NBA? About the state of the gsme? And, why is a NBA ticket the most expensive ticket in town? Please enlighten me with your collective wisdom.
Rod from College Park
February 17th, 2010
5:57 pm
Melvin,
What they are going to do is bring Nate off the bench behind Rondo, and he will destroy most teams second string point guard with penetration and kicking. When they play the Hawks there is no one on the floor for us who can stay in front of him. House never has big games agianst us, and actually neither does Allen. Nate will. When we go with that 4th quarter lineup of Bibby, Jamal, Joe, Josh, and Horford, they can matchup with Nate, Rondo (Allen), Pierce, Garnett and Perkins. It also gives them another guy to isolate against us, which gives our switching defense problems (see Tony Parker or Nate Robinson).
Big Ump
February 17th, 2010
6:03 pm
Truth Serum
How everything going with you?
Rod from College Park
February 17th, 2010
6:09 pm
If the Nate deal goes thru, I actually think that the Celtic’s thought about Atlanta in acquiring him. I think the Celtic’s when healthy feel that they can matchup with Cleveland (somewhat),and Orlando, but not Atlanta. They have seen Nate destroy us, and Doc Rivers is a smart enough coach to exploit a matchup. He would kind of be like their Jamal Crawford. A guy who could come off the bench and put 15 to 20 up. House really can’t run the point, and they have really needed a backup point. He also would bring another confident guy who can back it up on the court unlike MARVIN.
Jody
February 17th, 2010
6:10 pm
Instead of laying the blame on Horford for the Hawks struggles to defend the basket against driving guards and big centers, why not indict the real culprits for this problem: very poor player personnel decisions in the past and the refusal to make more use of current personnel.
We all know Horford is a power forward playing center. However, he didn’t put himself in that position. I don’t think it’s fair to him to be forced to play out of position, but what else is he going to do? Until the Hawks are in a position to get someone who’s a better fit (not neccesarily a better player) at that position, he’s just got to the best he can defending the basket. Just think, if Horford is a solid all-star at a position where he constantly battles bigger guys in the post, imagine what he might become if ever gets into a position where he enjoys the size and physical advantage every night. I remember Steve Smith saying last year that if Horford ever moved to the 4 spot, he would average 20 and 10 numbers and I believe him.
niremetal
February 17th, 2010
6:29 pm
Robinson might be a midget with a limited and inconsistent game. But he’s precisely the type of quick guard that kills the Hawks because we don’t have anyone that can stay in front of him without fouling (*Teague* *ahem*).
Is it possible that the Celtics made this move precisely with a Hawks-Celtics series in mind? It’s tough to say that it makes them a better team on most nights. If that’s the case, it’s a complement to the Hawks.
Astro Joe
February 17th, 2010
6:34 pm
Regular Fan the next NBA CBA will attempt to correct the ability of team’s to circumvent the salary cap by temporarily absorbing bad contracts for the purpose of having space the following year to grab a decent free agent. It is one of many things that hurts today’s NBA. Fans in NY and NJ have been told for at least 2 seasons to wait for this coming summer. There is very little ability for teams to “rebuild” if they either make a mistake signing a player (Jared Jeffries) or a player becomes injured (Eddy Curry). Of course, owners want to only guarantee half of the player’s contracts. Imagine that, someone like Curry could be gone because of lack of production instead of holding on by a thread because his contract is guaranteed.
The classic example was when Keith Van Horn received a fat paycheck for being a part of a trade AFTER he had essentially retired (but he was smart enough not to file his papers), because the team needed to make the math work. He was sitting at home eating Butterscotch Krumpets (or maybe Honey Buns), and suddenly, someone pays him a few million to add his name to a trade agreement. Yeah, the system is clearly broken.
bigdave
February 17th, 2010
6:38 pm
i dont see that trade confirmed anywhere…
Truth-Serum
February 17th, 2010
6:40 pm
Big Ump ! whatz up man? Living large trying to keep it real, wading through all the haters here.
becareful not to criticise AL w h o r e f o r d or the Bubba crew will paint you as a hater. I guess they are trying to get some get back for when we kicked their butts about COY Woodson.
Jody, I agree that horford could be more productive at pf but the problem is Josh is a better pf so you have to decide who to keep. Id keep Josh, trade the al and the bubba crew for amare and change.
Rod from College Park It aint got nothing to do with switching defense. There is not a guard in the NBA that can keep any other guard out on the perimeter. Any Guard and penetrate and take a man off the dribble. The key is to have such a force in the paint that he doesnt want to go there. All of the hawks guards including Bibby are capable of penetrating in the middle against anybody, and they do. Its just with playoff finalist type teams they wont let you beat them inside. We dont have a center who will not allow us to get beat inside, in fact, our center(the #18th center for shot blocking), helps guys like 5′10″ tony parker and little bitty nate robinson show case their talents in the paint “WITH AL IN THE PAINT”.
I wish people would quit making excuses for Al lack of defense.When ever I mention his lack of defense they mention his rebounds. Well, he gets rebound because every body else is doing the work.
Here are Al’s defensive numbers. DD-10th, PPG-#12, RPG-#10, BPG-#18
There are only 12 centers in the NBA who score more points per game than horford
There are only 9 centers who grab more rebounds than horford
There are only 17 more centers who block more shots than horford per game
There are only 10 more centers who have higher double doubles than horford.
You cant win a championship with this kind of talent on your team.
Thats why nate and everybody else puts up great numbers, Al doesnt play defense.
If its true the celtic got Robinson and we did not get Amare it only goes to show who’s serious about winning and whos catering to the bubba crew.
Truth-Serum
February 17th, 2010
6:50 pm
Nate and tony did not be us out side but right at the rim. Guards dont protect the rim center do!
Astro Joe
February 17th, 2010
6:52 pm
Cavs just won the Eastern Conference. WojYahooNBA Cavs get Jamison and Telfair, Clippers get Drew Gooden and Wash gets Illgauskas, Al Thornton and Brian Skinner and Cavs 1st round pick.
Magic, Hawks and Celtics are playing for second place now.
Truth-Serum
February 17th, 2010
6:53 pm
*nate and tony did not beat us out side but right at the rim and right in front of al wh o re ford
Blaming the guards for what happens at the rim is the same as saying I am protecting my house as long as it doesnt come under attack.
Truth-Serum
February 17th, 2010
6:57 pm
And the Hawks made what move? what trade?
niremetal
February 17th, 2010
7:03 pm
Yeah, why didn’t the Hawks make a trade? I know they have an extraneous player with an 8-digit expiring contract lying around here somewhere…
Same reason the Magic, Nuggets, and Spurs aren’t active right now: We don’t have any chips to play with, unless you want to trade Smoove or Horford.
Oh wait. This is the guy who thinks Horford, second best center in the East, is the main thing standing between the Hawks and a title. My bad.
niremetal
February 17th, 2010
7:04 pm
*JJ, Smoove, or Horford. But my guess is that Smoove and Horford would draw more interest than JJ right now.
Astro Joe
February 17th, 2010
7:25 pm
I’d take Gooden or Skinner if/when they get bought-out. And add Etan Thomas, Earl Watson, Tony Battie, Trenton Hassell and a few other names to my wish list. We’re not going to make a trade (for well-documented reasons) but we can add some “situational players” if Sund geets approval from ASG.
terrell
February 17th, 2010
8:51 pm
For Real, you got Pietrus at pf, and Lewis at sf. I’m pretty sure it’s the other way around. I actually would’nt mind the lineup. JJ is basically the pg anyway. That would give us a bench of Bibby, Crawford, Mo, Joe , Morris, and Teague. Dont like Josh Smith at the 3 though, but hey, cant be any worse tham Marvin at sf.
terrell
February 17th, 2010
8:59 pm
How in the hell does Nate Robinson put the Celtics back ahead of the Hawks? He hasnt even played a game with the C’s yet,and they’re back in front of the Hawks? Please! Some trades work out, some dont. Dont be so quick to judge..
terrell
February 17th, 2010
9:08 pm
Quick to judge are you Astro? The Cavs were good before Jamison. If anything, I can see them messing with their chemistry a little bit. So I guess this means Amare will end up in Miami.
wuffe
May 30th, 2010
10:36 am
we should trade the “Dream Team Ownership” of the Hawks… for a bushel old used tires.
THEN … See if Jon Koncak will come out of retirement. and trade up for him and get rid of Marvin William.
Then …. Go get Harry the Hawk who wants to stay in Atlanta and let JOE JOHNSON go to the worst team in the NBA, the Knicks..
THEN …. I would get one of these life size pictures of Josh Smith … go to Grady hospital and.. find a heart… and tape the heart to the picture…and darn if I wouldnt start that picture with heart instead of the real thing..
Then..
Start Teague
My lineup : no questions…
C: John Koncack
Pf:Horford
Sf:Picture of Josh Smith with heart taped to chest.
Sg:Harry the Hawk
Pg: Teague
This would be my team after the debacle I saw after seeing them get swept by Orlando Magic.