Atlanta Hawks (no) trade primer
Los Angeles–My editor sent me a note today with a question: “Why AREN’T the Hawks in the Stoudemire chase?”
So I stopped staring out at my balcony view of Marina del Rey long enough to collect my thoughts on the matter. Tough gig.
I know it’s the kind of question Hawks fans have, too. They look at their team’s holes, hear about all the big deals going down (or being talked about) in the league and wish the Hawks would get in on Stoudemire or some other stud.
So I will attempt to answer my boss’s question and yours without boring or confusing you:
1. The Suns are looking to shed salary and the Hawks have no large expiring contracts to match up with Amare’s $16.4 million salary other than Joe Johnson’s $15 million.
2. The Hawks aren’t willing to deal J.J. or other core players with value (Smoove, Jamal and Horford) and haven’t received interest in players they might be willing to part with.
3. Hawks ownership, which still must maintain flexibility for its efforts to re-sign Johnson this summer, isn’t inclined to take on future salary. Part of the reason the Suns are looking to deal Stodemire is his $17.7 million player option for next season. Even if Stoudemire doesn’t invoke the option, he’ll be looking to re-sign for a long-term deal.
Those explanations can apply to why the Hawks aren’t on any of the big money guys you hear in trade rumors. It doesn’t make sense to trade J.J., Smoove or Horford (who remember is still a great bargain at $4.3 million). The Hawks just don’t have any other real assets (expiring contracts, young starters on the rise) or the financial wherewithal to make a major deal.
And all of you including Marvin Williams in your wishful trade thinking need to remember that he’s a base-year compensation player. Assuming another team covets Williams, which is no sure thing considering his decline in production, the Hawks can only use half of his $7.5 million salary under the traded player exception for teams over the salary cap.
In other words, if they traded Williams they could only take back 125 percent plus $100,00 of $3.75 million, or about $4.8 million, instead of $8.9 million. For Williams this holds true until after June 30. The BYC rule is designed to prevent teams from exploiting a loophole in the traded player exception and as you can see it serves as a strong disincentive to trade players like Williams.
– The Hawks still aren’t getting calls about Johnson because there’s no point. The Hawks aren’t dealing him.
– From what I’m hearing, there’s nothing to that rumor about the Hawks looking to deal Mo Evans and a throw-in contract to Milwaukee for Kurt Thomas. It didn’t make much sense when I heard it because the Hawks don’t seem to have much enthusiasm for Thomas and the Bucks aren’t looking to add future salary (Mo has a player option for $2.5 million for next season).
Maybe Thomas would add a bit of defensive toughness and vet leadership but he’s not the big body the Hawks need. And who would be the Hawks’ wing off the bench if Mo is gone?
– The Hawks are interested in Boston forward Rasheed Wallace but the Celtics apparently aren’t interested in dealing him. It was probably a long shot anyway since (here it is again) ownership doesn’t seem inclined to take on future money. Wallace has two years and about $13 million left on his contract after this season.
– I was surprised to see the Clippers deal Marcus Camby to Portland for Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake. The Clippers sent away a good player with an expiring $7.5 million contract (and who had expressed interest in staying with the team) for two decent players with expiring contracts.
The Hawks like Camby, who I think would be a great fit, but they wouldn’t have been to use their players with expiring deals to match his salary in a trade. Also, the Clippers apparently needed a backup point guard for the short term and the Hawks don’t have one to offer with an expiring deal. The Clippers also will receive cash in the deal and maybe that was the main consideration.
– One good thing about the relative quiet around the Hawks this week: no distractions.
“Haven’t said not one word (about trades),” Woody said. “I’m sure these guys are aware of (the deadline). I haven’t heard anything about our team in terms of trade. Most of these guys besides the ‘rook (Jeff Teague) have been around a long time and know sometimes your name will be mentioned in trade rumors. It’s part of the game.”
MC
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237 comments Add your comment
sansho1
February 17th, 2010
3:41 am
Jerry Stackhouse is now a very bad ballplayer.
Dr.Phil
February 17th, 2010
7:13 am
The Hawks…HA HA! How is this team working for you Atlanta?
spirit
February 17th, 2010
7:26 am
no trade! this hawks team aint oing nowhere. unless you settle for mediocrity. trade zaza, collins, a second round pick and cash consideration for ben wallace and chris wilcox( both expiring contract). the contracts matched. that trade wont make us a championship caliber team but it will give us more chance to get to eastern finals. down the road we would have to face orlando, clevland or boston. we have no chance against those team with our current roster. Ben might be older but he can still defend, wilcox will be a wild card. why wait untill the free agency, let’s try to do something now and then would see
NBA Trade Rumors 2/17/10 « SprungOnSports
February 17th, 2010
7:30 am
[...] and filler for Kurt Thomas trade and the Celtics aren’t trading Rasheed Wallace, reports the Atlanta Journal Constitution. -There will be no Kevin Martin trade but Memphis, New York and New Jersey all like Sergio [...]
O'Brien
February 17th, 2010
8:26 am
Traceman, Melvin,
I would love to see the Hawks resign JJ and Crawford. But I can also see where AJ is coming from. If the Hawks sign JJ for $16-$18 mil, Josh making over $11 mil, and Horford getting a big raise in 2 seasons, the BASG will be hard pressed to find $10 mil to pay a sixth man of the year.
And I only say that because the Spirit are tight with the money. But they will have Bibby coming off the books, and Marvin can be traded for somebody cheaper, so hopefully they can keep both JJ and Crawford.
kirkinga, cosign 1:59 am post. I thought the Hawks would be competitive for a #3 seed (even if they end up beng #4), and thats where they are.
I hope the Hawks stay away from ‘Sheed. Maybe Brandon Bass is available from the Magic, because he gets little to no PT from them and has been complaining (although I dont think the Magic would deal him, and definitely not within the division).
DDawgDavis
February 17th, 2010
8:26 am
Just to fuel the fire and to see what happens, I don’t have the contract information in front of me, but trading my favorite current Atlanta Hawks Josh Smith (refuse to call him JSmoove, crap I just did) for Amar’e Stoudemire is interesting. I hate to give up a “face” of a franchise for a guy who poo-poo’d the idea of coming here a few seasons ago, but Amar’e against Dwight and keeping him off the Heat roster is too interesting not to talk about.
Should’ve gone after Camby.
Sautee
February 17th, 2010
8:41 am
Did I stumble onto some Fantasy League blog?
Most of these trade ideas are ludicrous. Scroll, scroll, scroll.
(not you Najeh).
richbrave
February 17th, 2010
8:44 am
JeJe:
“……………………WE CAN’T. WE HAVE THE WORST OWNERSH!T IN THE NBA”
I beg to differ. Have you noticed the events of this season ongoing in D.C.?
richbrave
February 17th, 2010
8:47 am
Najeh Davenpoop
February 16th, 2010
10:53 pm
“O’Brien, the only reason I didn’t mention Mason is because he makes $3.5 million this year,………..”
Actually, 3.78 million, but who’s counting.
NEW CARS
February 17th, 2010
8:50 am
The Hawks are sort of stuck with what they’ve got for now, which isn’t a terrible thing…It’s just disheartening to see the coach repeat the same mistake from past years…When we get to the playoffs, JJ, Josh and Al are going to be worn down and not ready to put up a fight..One of the basic jobs for any coach or manager is to develop young talent and depth to continue the ball rolling…It’s one thing the Braves did over the past 2 decades and it’s something that Woodson either doesn’t have the patience or aptitude for…He learned from Larry Brown and Mr. Brown’s greatest criticism has always been his lack of patience with young players, starting with Diaw and going through Law, Josh and continuing with Teague and Morris…It’s amazing how other teams like Denver, the Spurs, Celtics and Heat have been able to insert younger players into their rotations and keep winning…If we can’t figure out how to do that, then the steady improvement is going to hit a wall and we’ll return to mediocrity…Just look at what will happen if Joe takes the Knicks’ money and runs…If I knew the ownership would spend the money to replace him and move in a different direction at head coach, it wouldn’t bother me, but who thinks that is going to happen?
Astro Joe
February 17th, 2010
8:52 am
Melvin, it’s not a conspiracy theory. You actually think that Jamal would be giddy about remaining a back-up for what will likely be his last really good contract (most guys don’t get great deals after they tuurn 32)? And if I believe that he would prefer to return to a starting gig, does that make me guilty of having “an agenda”?
Daniel
February 17th, 2010
9:03 am
ditto Sautee- but Najeh I would say McDyess is an upgrade over Joe Smith but I don’t think it is as much of an upgrade as the baggage of the second year on his contract. Bogans/Evans is a wash.
R.U.KIDDEN-ME
February 17th, 2010
9:04 am
@JE JE @9:56 P.M. YOU ARE SPOT ON BRO.!! I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER!!
Daniel
February 17th, 2010
9:07 am
I would also like to add that all these complaints about the Hawks making “the same mistakes”. They will never do this or that, yet another this or that. Am I living in an alternate universe or were we happy to make the playoffs with 37 wins just 2 seasons ago and just last year won the first 7 game series in like 40 years? What is this track record of decent mediocrity? We have been AWFUL for a long time with just now our young core developing.
vava74
February 17th, 2010
9:07 am
Melvin,
Nice link. His shot is a bit awkward but seems effective. He also seems to have a nice low post game.
MC, you should forward the link to Sund!
GeeMack
February 17th, 2010
9:18 am
Najeh Davenpoop
That not a good trade senario for the Hawks.
heelsfan
February 17th, 2010
9:19 am
Some of you just dont understand the game. Who can the Hawks trade for to make them a contender. Do you not remeber the 13 game winning seasons. Now the Hawks are consistently making the playoffs. i know we all desire for an NBA championship but it wont happen this year and the league would not let that happen as well. There s no need to trade just keep on building slowly and by the way all of you call for Marvin to be traded, that’s crazy. His numbers are down but Jamal averages 18 and Joe shoots alot more than he has in the past(contract year). Marvin doesn’t even play 30 minutes a game because of Woody’s dumb rotation. So lets just chill and enjoy the ride.
Voice of reason
February 17th, 2010
9:24 am
I d take Stodumire over horford any day of the week, so why cant we just swap the salary and lets take the game to a higher level. All the Hoe ford nut huggers will get over it. Lets maximize the hawks potential.
By the way, where’s Michael Vick when you need him?
Cobb County girl attacked by pit bull-2/17/10, AJC
Voice of reason
February 17th, 2010
9:27 am
heelsfan I hear you. But that means another season or two of listening to the Bubba Crew seethe about their hate and direct it towards Woodson. Why dont we just trade Hoe ford for Amare now and the problem is solved. Championship basketball is on the way.
JeJe
February 17th, 2010
9:30 am
richbrave,
The Wizards’ owner DIED this season (Rest In Peace, Mr. Pollin). That is the reason the team is in disarray. It was a serious disappointment that Caron/Jamison/Arenas didn’t work out, but our team is on the RISE but will stop at a brick wall in the 2nd round again because WE HAVE NO MONEY TO SPEND, OUR GM SUCKS, AND OUR CORE HAS BEEN TOGETHER WAY TOO LONG.
Starting lineups are supposed to change a bit every year or two. Look at the Celtics and Cavs. Woodson THINKS THAT THE SAME STARTING LINEUP FOR US WILL WORK IN EVERY SITUATION. And that’s why he’s a bad coach. He is such a rigid coach and does not listen to his assistants
GeeMack
February 17th, 2010
9:31 am
Astro
From a previous post ” a 4-6 year run like the Kings” is not a good look.
The only thing the Kings have to show for that run are division Championships.
This is something the Hawks experienced in the 80’s and 90’s.
As a life long Hawks fan that’s not very comforting. Going for a champioship will change outlook of the franchise altogther.
I like your post most of the time. They are always well thought out, and very informative, however I think this is where you and I may differ.
I would rather have 4 to 6 run like the Celtics than the King. The Celtics 1 title 2 60 wins season and a 55+ win season this year and 50+ wins next year barring any major injuries.
JeJe
February 17th, 2010
9:35 am
Why the heck do people want Kurt Thomas? We already have like 4 veteran bigs on our bench who Woodson doesn’t use. Isn’t Joe Smith the player Kurt Thomas would be for us? Joe S was balling before that injury. Now he is an atrocious player.
MARVIN AND BIBBY’S CONTRACTS SCREW US OVER. 4 MORE YEARS OF MARVIN’S PISS-POOR 11 PPG EFFORTS WITH MEDIOCRE DEFENSE. LOL
Bad mother shut your mouth!
February 17th, 2010
9:36 am
Daniel, reality does set in. You will never win a championship with our starting center rated as the number 18th center for block shot in the NBA. That is just to weak to even get out of the second round. We will be here another 10 years before you realize that you aint going to win with such a palsy defense. In the half court game of the nba Championship rounds this equates to a sweep or a near sweep. Get real.
Stop blaming Hoe fords lack of defense on the switch. Most coaches Isolate and work hoe ford over, besides if I were the coach Id try to switch and get Josh out of the painted area. Josh plays under the switch defense too and he is an Excellent defender, always among the NBA leaders in block shots.Hoe ford is Number 18th for his position.
The only thing horford can do for josh is get the rebound when josh blocks the shot.
Bad mother shut your mouth!
February 17th, 2010
9:41 am
FIRE SUND!NOW!
Bad mother shut your mouth!
February 17th, 2010
9:41 am
FIRE SUND RIGHT NOW!
Astro Joe
February 17th, 2010
9:44 am
Gee-Mack, I am personally not willing to give the ASG the revenue (season ticket package and team swag) that they need to deliver a title, so I have lower expectations of them because of my unwillingness to do my part. Until the Hawks are averaging top 5-8 in home attendance, I will be content with a Sacramento-type run.
Melvin
February 17th, 2010
9:44 am
Astro,
Let’s stay in the now. Jamal has already said he’s accepted and enjoyed his role here in the ATL. Although he’s not a starter, he plays starter mins and he finished most games on the court. Which I think most players would prefer to do versus hearing their name announce to the crowd and doing chest bumps with their teammates only to watch the crunch time from the bench (Marvin). Keep in mind that Jamal has never been to the playoffs before and being a member of the Hawks will be his 1st opportunity to do so. So, maybe there’s some sentimental/loyalty that will be consider once he become a FA (think Bibby). Believe it or not, not all players go to the highest bidder. Also, playing for the Hawks keeps him closer to his son which lives in the ATL as well.
CRAWFORD = 6th Man Of The Year….
Daniel
February 17th, 2010
9:46 am
as far as Joe goes, I for one am a little hurt by his comments about the Knicks, but I understand it is just a business. I still believe he will stay with the Hawks if for nothing else then the economics of the situation. For people that just say, ahhh let him go and sign someone else. The NBA’s CBA does not work that way. If we lose Joe we would only have about 10 milion available to sign a free agent, so forget Wade, etc..
vava74
February 17th, 2010
9:46 am
Poor Truth Serum… I am sure that his gripe against Al is because when he plays NBA2K10 he can get any stops with Al…
Go and watch your Darryl Dawkins youtube videos…
I guess that when Horford was left in a switch playing one on one against Nash at the end of the game, stayed with him and blocked his shot it was because he does not protect the rim…
terrell
February 17th, 2010
9:46 am
I can name a couple of players who only make half of what Marvin makes, that I’d trade him for. Travis Outlaw 4 mill, Al Thornton 1.9. Lets make a deal. lol! And where in the hell is ACIE LAW? Is he still in the league? Seriously
Daniel
February 17th, 2010
9:52 am
Bad Mother… Your post makes absolutely no sense. Are you blaming Horford for your perceived lack of an NBA championship this year? Woodson? What? So since only one team will win the championship this year, we can blame all the rest on the lack of blocked shots from the 5 position?
O'Brien
February 17th, 2010
10:00 am
Rumor has it the Celtics are trying to acquire Nate Robinson from the Knicks. The main holdup/hiccup is that Robinson is a BYC player. Maybe the Celtics saw how good Nate looked against the Hawks, and figured he would help their chances against us.
With no Camby tonight, and Outlaw just coming back from injury, Hawks should win this game. The key is defend, rebound, and run.
chris
February 17th, 2010
10:13 am
Like trade Maurice Evans and Jason Collins and Randolph Morris to the Lakers for Adam Morrison. Than go out and pick up to BIG Centers D.L or Free Agent.
NBA Rumors: Trade Deadline Approaching « Sports Talk, Rumors and Other Contrarian Insights
February 17th, 2010
10:17 am
[...] -Apparently, the Hawks feel the same as the Magic, according the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Click here for AJC story. [...]
chris
February 17th, 2010
10:19 am
Look trade Maurice Evans and Jason Collins and Randolph Morris to the Lakers for Adam Morrison. Than go out and pick up too Big Centers in the D.L or free agent.
Mike is Back
February 17th, 2010
10:19 am
MC, thanks for the break down of the Hawks trade scenarios…I think it’s a mix blessing for the Hawks…we certainly could have used another Big…all the deals sound great when you first hear them…but the actual benefits are tenuous at the best.
Teams know the Hawks have closed the gap…once we get JJ resigned…we should be in position to make some moves to close the gap even farther in the East. We know where the drop off in production is…hopefully we will see some adjustments in strategy from Woody to address this issue…Before the playoff. lol
MC, I would be curious to know if getting more production from his reserves is major priority for Woody starting out the second half…now that is clear that these are the guys that we are going to depend on in the playoff…what is his plan to get them ready???????????
Also, on RandMo. There was a guy name Solo that struggled mercifully before he finally gained Woody trusts…and gained a little PT. So, my question is if Zaza continues to under achieve would Woody consider giving RandMo more PT, or has RandMo improve to the point where giving him more PT would be a consideration???????????????
Doc, Sheed would have been all right…Woody coached him before…those guys in Detroit have a tight bond with Woody…I think he would have been able to keep him under control. I see, Boston ain’t about to do any thing to give us a leg up. THINK they know we are the number three seed in the East…….hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PMC
February 17th, 2010
10:20 am
So it makes more sense to get NOTHING at all for JJ when he leaves after the season?
THey still need a center and they STILL need a superstar Point Guard. If/When Joe leaves they need a shooting guard that can create.
This team STILL has too many forwards.
PMC
February 17th, 2010
10:21 am
Joe Is LEAVING…. they have to get what they can for him while they can.
jfreak13713
February 17th, 2010
10:24 am
The Hawks probably aren’t good enough to beat the Cavs to reach the finials but I think they can beat anyone else in the East. Sometimes winning a championship THIS year is too unrealistic. I like this team and hope they can sign J.J. plus add a big for next year. Who knows the Hawks get on a roll they can beat ANYONE. It’s nice to have a chance for a change. Thank you HAWKS! Good Luck!
PMC
February 17th, 2010
10:25 am
So as it stands you WILL lose your best player Joe Johnson you still can’t compete (win a playoff series) with Orlando (outside shot maybe) or Cleveland so you still aren’t a championship team as constructed…. why NOT make a move?
PMC
February 17th, 2010
10:27 am
On the other hand, if they do keep everyone intact add a center and a better point guard next year they might have a go at it.
I don’t want Stoudamire and his no defense/bad knees anyway.
Hawk n the Ham
February 17th, 2010
10:27 am
We are built as a defensive team (minus Bibby). There is not a decent trade out there to make us better defensively. Defense wins championships.
To echo O’Brien, Defend, Rebound, and RUN!!
Hawk n the Ham
February 17th, 2010
10:29 am
The Hawks will add a BIG man in the offseason on the CHEAP.
Anyone remember somebody named Siler??
theZaZaguy
February 17th, 2010
10:33 am
Marvin giving a kid a coat is absolutely relevant. It’s relevant to the hawks overall philosopy of drafting and acquring quality, both in play and in character. This works for the following reasons.
1. You minimize the risk of external distractions (Arenas, Delonte West, Latrell Sprewell)
2. There tend to be less ego fights.
3. Guys like this tend to work harder and are more focused on team goals
I’ve been very impressed by the quality of men we have on this team as well as the quality of play.
So they don’t make a lot of noise and aren’t telegenic. They love basketball, like each other, and get the job done.
This is the philsophy of Joe Dumars and management at San Antonio as well. It worked out pretty well for them, and I think it will work out well for us over the next 4-5 years.
Astro Joe
February 17th, 2010
10:33 am
Melvin, I wasn’t trying to trade him NOW. If we want to stay in the NOW, there is nothing to debate.
theZaZaguy
February 17th, 2010
10:34 am
I say the hawks put Jason Collins on one of those movie star diet and exercise regimens and ban cheesburgers from Phillips Arena. Then watch out!
Astro Joe
February 17th, 2010
10:51 am
Woodson Interview Alert. 12:00 EST on 790thezone.com or 790 AM in Atlanta.
richbrave
February 17th, 2010
10:58 am
JeJe:
And there you go JJ, I rest my case. The worst ownership is the one willing to DIE to abdicate it’s responsibility.
Melvin
February 17th, 2010
11:09 am
Astro,
I know that but you are overlooking some very important factors now that could have an impact on his decision in the next year or two…
Melvin
February 17th, 2010
11:12 am
Astro,
Also, why even consider trading him (our option 1A or 1B) instead of moving some other dead weight on this team (i will leave their names anonymous)….