“Are the Hawks legitimate threats to win the Eastern Conference now?”
Apparently he's no fan of Iso-Joe, man.
Dallas–I asked the question, these guys answered at the Hall of Fame presser (where former Hawks player/coach Richie Guerin was included among 19 finalists):
Bill Walton
“The Hawks have to make the leap forward that good teams sometimes accomplish but often fail at. Their success will come when they understand that it’s about the team and it’s about ball movement. Unless you have Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant or LeBron James on your team, or . . . one of the greatest of the greats, a select few in the history of basketball—unless you have one of those guys you are not going to be able to win by playing off the dribble.”
‘Nique
“Oh, yeah. No question. The thing is it is OK for us to be the underdog. In the East they know this Atlanta team is for real and we have a legitimate shot of beating anyone in the East. If you are going to take us for granted going into the playoffs that is going to be a mistake.”
Magic Johnson
“The Hawks are the team that everybody doesn’t want to play because of the athletes, Joe Johnson, Horford now has got his offense going I love his development. You look at the firepower that Jamal brings from the bench, I’m enjoying watching him. What they must not do in the second half is slide. . . . (Now they must) tell us, ‘Have you grown?’ It has got to be in you. Show everybody that you’ve grown, you learned from what happened in a seven-game series (vs. Boston), you learned from what happened last year as well and now you want to take it to another level. Let’s see that. Are you going to show us now?”
MC
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114 comments Add your comment
darrell starks
February 13th, 2010
2:52 pm
MICHAEL CUNNINGHAM why are the hawks afraid to make moves 2 get 2 the next level are they just satisfied with just winning and not winning a title?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
chad
February 13th, 2010
3:00 pm
How could they be consedered real threats when in the last game before the all star break they are playing a bad miami team and instead of gaining som mo before the break; they get thumped by them. Same old hawks but only slightly better. All the talent in the world no heart.
Jeff
February 13th, 2010
3:00 pm
Top 5 “All Ugly”: Sam Cassell (looks like a cross between Golum and ET), Joakim Noah (looks like a black “Carrot Top”), Popeye Jones (1922’s Nosferatu), Tyrone Hill (not quite evolved yet), Nick Van Exel (any cartoon character), and Andrei Kirilenko (a very skinny Ivan Drago)
chad
February 13th, 2010
3:04 pm
Trading Joe Johnson before the dead line would be beneficial. Need a big center. Joe doesn’t want to be in the ATL anymore and it shows. Either he is the biggest black hole in the East or Woody’s playbook is one page but there is a problem with the half court set. Makes you wonder why Woody hasn’t signed an extension yet?
darrell starks
February 13th, 2010
3:05 pm
LETS SAY THE NETS CALL THE HAWKS AND WANTED HORFORD AND SAID WE WOULD GIVE YOU LOPEZ FOR HORFORD WOULD YOU DO IT? YOU DAM RIGHT.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
Jeff
February 13th, 2010
3:10 pm
Sorry…put Manute Bol on the list too…
darrell starks
February 13th, 2010
3:13 pm
The hawks are going 2 have to make a choice in the future on horford and josh, on who play power ford unless they decide to move josh 2 small forward.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
newkid
February 13th, 2010
3:24 pm
Could the ‘other’ banger indeed be Kurt Thomas. Silence from MC regarding the rumor suggests he doesn’t think there’s anything to it, and he’d probably be on point. But can Sund REALLY hold his water if ‘playoff’ moves are made by Cleveland (Amar’e) and Boston?
Looking further down the aforementioned roster one also spies JStack, who has garnered more than a little attention in these parts over the past 5 months. Why wouldn’t Sund consider a Mo Evans, RadMo, & the nebulous ‘future considerations’ dogs for Thomas and JStack if the other side were interested? Five days and counting.
If such a deal happens, could we expect Sund to use the $2.5M savings from moving MO and the impending – and probably less financially forgiving – ‘11/’12 CBA to entice Chill to sign a 3 yr, $16M deal this summer?
rms
February 13th, 2010
3:49 pm
WABE,
I mean no disrespect here either its just that when I see teams like Cleveland and the Lakers, and the Magic and any champoinship caliber team play they just have a certain tenacity and fire about them when they make their run to the title. I just cant say that about the Hawks, no matter what Nique or other Hawks analysts say. Of course they are going to say that but if they were honest with themselves they could see that this team is a very good team but hard pressed to believe that are capable of remaining focused on the same team for a seven game series playing a halfcourt offense most of the time. No knock on them, thats just what they are right now, I dont even think its Woodsons fault he is just doing the best with what he got.
Jeff
February 13th, 2010
3:55 pm
The Hawks best shot came in 1988 when they had the Celtics on the brink with a chance to move the East Finals, but couldn’t get it done (thanks to a missed easy shot by Cliff Levingston in the lane in the closing seconds during Game 6). Since that game, the Hawks haven’t come close to reaching the East Finals. Their only chance is if they play the Celtics in the second round. However, at the end of the day, no one is beating the Cavs. Just not going to happen. Spring Training anyone??
Najeh Davenpoop
February 13th, 2010
3:58 pm
Camby is not a banger. He gets a lot of blocks, but you’ll notice Denver’s team defense got much better once he left. He’s not a guy who is going to body up Shaq or Dwight.
Honestly I think the fuss about Horford matching up against Shaq and Dwight is overrated. In the case of Cleveland, I don’t think the Hawks can win a 7 game series even if they acquire someone to neutralize Shaq. Nobody on the Hawks has the combination of size, lateral quickness, and strength to limit LeBron defensively. Moreover, LeBron is big enough and strong enough to severely limit what Joe Johnson can do. I don’t think any sort of personnel or tactical move is going to get the Hawks over Cleveland, since the Hawks simply don’t have the kind of firepower to counter the league’s most talented player. Shaq is a role player on that team, and whether or not the Hawks can limit him isn’t what will decide a series between these teams.
But I do think the Hawks can beat Orlando with a simple change in tactics. Instead of doubling Howard and allowing the supporting players to get hot from 3 point land, play Dwight straight up and shut his teammates down. You’ll find that if Dwight has to go one on one, even against someone shorter than him like Horford, he may put up good numbers but he doesn’t have the moves or the free throw shooting ability to really make the other team pay consistently. The Hawks have lost the last few meetings with Orlando not because of Dwight, but because of players like Rashard Lewis, Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, and JJ Redick. When Dwight is doubled, these players either get open jumpers in rhythm from 3 or open layups from cutting down the lane vacated by the double team. That’s what the Hawks need to stop. They can live with Dwight scoring 40 points and getting 20 boards if the rest of the Magic shoots 30% and throws up brick after brick, which is entirely possible if they play them straight up.
osama
February 13th, 2010
3:59 pm
Consistent overall effort, focus and intensity in combo w/ ball & player movement on offense will make this team a legit candidate to compete for the Eastern Finals.
cp
February 13th, 2010
3:59 pm
I think Walton made a great point. When the Hawks share the ball they look like one of the better teams in the league. I don’t think they are a threat to win the east though. Boston and Cleveland are talking about making moves to improve their team while it looks like we will stay put. I don’t like the Kurt Thomas move because we then have no back up sf. Not that Mo is a good back up sf but I would rather have him back up Marvin than Mario. We need to make a move but im just no sure we will.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 13th, 2010
4:02 pm
newkid, Kurt Thomas from a few years ago would be an ideal acquisition to deal with Howard (and another example of why height isn’t the most important attribute of a good post defender). I haven’t seen him play the last couple of years, but I don’t know how good he is anymore. If he still has something left in the tank, that’s a good trade. In fact, they would probably be better off moving Zaza or Joe Smith for him if they were to make such a move, since he would essentially eat one of their minutes in the rotation anyway.
William in Pasadena
February 13th, 2010
4:08 pm
No way the Hawks will win the East (they are perpetrators with no heart, no center and no coach). What’s with my Atl teams (Braves & Hawks)? They always seem to be one player away. I think they are too cheap, and are satisfied to be above .500. I say get a center, move Horford to PF, Josh to SF, get rid of Marvin & Bibby, let Iso-Joe walk, and sign D-Wade. Then send coach packing. Maybe then, they can compete for the Eastern Conference crown. Let me be first to inform you all that the Hawks will not win in the 2nd round of the playoffs. They fold too much in the 4th qtr and Woody does not haveany plays, other than Iso-Joe. Joe is not LeBron or Kobe or D-Wade. I think Jamal should be the man in the 4th qtr, but I guess they are paying Joe too much.
Jeff
February 13th, 2010
4:12 pm
Kurt Thomas???? You’ve got to be kidding. He was marginal even during is “prime”. There isn’t anyone on the Hawks current roster I would give up for him…except for maybe some locker room towells
loyal hawks fan
February 13th, 2010
4:12 pm
Dennis Johnson and Larry Bird have to be part of the “ALL UGLY” Team
tale of woe
February 13th, 2010
4:23 pm
Until we can beat the Cavs and Magic this conversation is irrelevant.
Rip Van Winkle
February 13th, 2010
4:25 pm
darrell starks I think the outdated Mr Cunningham has seen,”happier days”. I agree with you that if the Hawks are serious about getting to the next level they will need the right tools to get the job done. It would be nice if we could trade horford for a center….like Zach Randolf, Lopez,Camby. I dont think wed miss horford that much because we have a strong powerforward in Josh and Randolf, Lopez, Camby or Stodumire , would be a clear up grade at a critical spot. Yes, any of those four would make us more competitive for the stretch run. Also there are others centers who could help our team.orford is only good for an occasional rebound, foul trouble and a free pass to the basket- See Turner, and Tony Parker among countless others.
What type of brain thinks we can live with Howard getting 40 and 20? What type of brain thinks a playoff caliber team is going to shoot 30%?
Is there any logical thinkers around?
Swap Dog
February 13th, 2010
4:31 pm
I still think Niremetal is the ugliest dude ever! Trick a mudder frocking treat.
Benjamin
February 13th, 2010
5:00 pm
I do not think we’re quite there yet. We’re getting incrementally closer, and with Boston’s aging and Cleveland’s future with LeBron in the air, could continue the slow build next season, but if I had to peg us right now, I think we’re probably the third best team in the East (behind Orlando and Cleveland), and if Cleveland can land Amare to package with LeBron and Shaq, I think they’ll be hands-down favorites to get to their second Finals in three years.
Either way, unless a serious upset occurs, we’ll likely not see an Eastern Conference finals appearance.
Still love the team, though. I hope we become more Mavs-like than Kings-like in the next few years… comparing this team to those of recent memory….
niremetal
February 13th, 2010
5:03 pm
Ding
niremetal
February 13th, 2010
5:04 pm
(I’ll let the regs figure for whom that bell was tolled)
Najeh – co-sign both of your posts.
Dick Long
February 13th, 2010
5:11 pm
Benjamin, good post, I think your points are well taken. That Offense of Stoudemire is a serious weapon for the inside out side game. I dont want to become the Mavs either, they are a good team that never gets over the hump. If we dont address our weaknesses we will be come the Kings.
Barry
February 13th, 2010
5:13 pm
As bad as I can’t stand Bill Walton, I think he is spot on. There is no way the Hawks can compete with the elite teams if they don’t move the ball. When they do, they absolutely can. It would be nice to have a banger, but Horford and Smoove can out-athlete the other teams if they play an up-tempo offense. But if they go with iso-Joe (or iso-Jamal for that matter), great teams are going to shut them down and we are going to be disappointed and frustrated again. They might win a game or two in the second round, but no more. But if they share the ball, they can get all the way to the conference finals.
wasted days and wasted nights.
February 13th, 2010
5:16 pm
It tolls for thee!
Sautee
February 13th, 2010
5:16 pm
“I agree with the professionals analyst and the guys here who know basketball and say wed be better with a real, defensive presence and move horford back to his natural position of pf.”
I guess Magic Johnson doesn’t know basketball. heh heh.
Sautee
February 13th, 2010
5:18 pm
By the way, any talk of all-ugly HAS to include Georghe Murhesan.
wasted days and wasted nights.
February 13th, 2010
5:18 pm
Id like to co-sign some ones bull crap so they can co-sign mine when my argument is proven invalid. I dont care about the truth, I just want to win.
Ding!
Swap Dog
February 13th, 2010
5:22 pm
I dont think Murhesan was as ugly as the other three, Walton, Oden and Niremetal , Saltee but hed surely be on a top ten list. I have to agree with you and magic, Horford plays better at power forward.
Astro Joe
February 13th, 2010
5:31 pm
I just hope that the Cavs acquire Amare. That would make virtually force Lebron to become a jump shooter as tehe lane would be clogged for any drives to the hole. Not to mention that team chemistry would likely be destroyed (I honestly don’t see all of that silliness standing the up to adversity). A combo of Bron, Shaq and Amare features some all-time front runners. Please, let it happen.
And no, the Hawks are not true contenders for the East. We’re absent an elite player, an elite coach and an elite roster/salary. The sum is better than the individual parts but ultimately we’ll fall short. But it won’t stop me from enjoying the ride.
Geemack
February 13th, 2010
5:43 pm
newkid
The Cavs are talking about adding Amare, and you’re talking about adding JStack and Kurt Thomas? Wow, those 2 should really help us against the Magic and Cavs!
niremetal
February 13th, 2010
5:54 pm
Sautee,
You’re absolutely right. I have no clue how I coulda left him off the list of nominees! So we’ve got Walton, Oden, Popeye, Ty Hill, Cassell, and Muresan. Shelden and Noah might crack the rotation eventually too…
Sautee
February 13th, 2010
5:58 pm
Horford would indeed make a dandy power forward, but the Head Coaches (not the media cocgnescenti) named him the second best CENTER in the East.
Gee, how could the “professionals analyst and the guys here who know basketball” have been SO wrong about Big Al?
I think the Head Coaches are more in a position to know than the outside onlookers.
rob
February 13th, 2010
5:59 pm
Offseason Priorities:
Resign JJ if possible, if he leaves we are doomed. I think he stays.
Get rid Of Mo Evans: really, what is he doing for us? but taking up part of our cap. Imagine if Josh Childress was coming off the bench now, thats a rebounder and can score points and drive. MC, whats the deal on Childress, i think we should try to get him next year to be on the bench with Crawford. We really need Bench help, besides Crawford, and occasional spurt from Zaza and Mario, we are hurt in that department.
MC, would Brendan Haywood sign with us to be a backup to Horford? I think his price tag is hefty, he would want to start, i dont know about Josh at the 3.
kiki
February 13th, 2010
6:28 pm
For some guys in this blog (or maybe the same 2 or 3 persons with multiple identities) Horford is never going to be a player that the Hawks can use. There’s always going to be something to say: he made the ASG because of pitty by the other coaches; when he had a good game against other “real” 7″ centers (all of them except Howard), it was because of the opposing center did not came to play; if the Hawk advance to the finals or win a title (big IF), it would be because of luck.
Sautee
February 13th, 2010
6:41 pm
kiki,
One would THINK that ALL true Hawks fans would celebrate Horford’s All-Star selection. Even some with the opinion that he deserved it less than Josh or David Lee (Najeh and others) have given Al his props.
Unless of course there is an agenda that is more important than showing respect for just what an honor this Hawks player has EARNED.
kiki
February 13th, 2010
6:48 pm
Sautee,
Agree 100% with you. The Horford topic has become a pointless discusion.
niremetal
February 13th, 2010
6:50 pm
Yup.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 13th, 2010
6:52 pm
In good news for the Hawks, the Wizards have officially traded Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood to the Mavs. This, of course, means those players are not going to the Celtics, Cavs, or Magic.
In addition, DeShawn Stevenson goes to the Mavs too, while Josh Howard and Drew Gooden go to the Wizards.
Blast
February 13th, 2010
6:59 pm
With Jamal, Hawks have vastly improved this year. If they draw Boston in the second round, then they have a chance of reaching East Finals. Then the buck probably stops there unless they play like they want it and not just happy to be there. AND, they share the ball. On the half court, Hawks have to swing the ball around to be successful. No player should pound the ball longer than 5 seconds. Hawks always say they can beat any team in the league. The playoffs is when you prove that.
That, said, I love the Hawks, but based on their cheap, flawed roster, coupled with how they don’t come to play everytime (meaning focus, mentality, killer instinct) I don’t see them beating Cleveland any time soon. Maybe they have a chance with Orlando if they play Dwight the way Najeh suggested. I can see them playing Cleveland hard, but no way the refs let Hawks beat them.
And the Cavs are not done tooling their team yet!
Geemack
February 13th, 2010
7:02 pm
At this time I don’t think the Hawks are contenders. I believe the Hawks have the players to trade to get peices to make them title contenders.
At some point the Hawks will have to make a decision on who the best PF on the team is Horford or Josh.
Whoever we keep the other needs to be traded to obtain a player to take us to championship status.
newkid
February 13th, 2010
9:02 pm
Geemack, it would not have been my desire to ’stay the course’ as Sund has indicated he will with his core, so just following up on someone else’s rumors regarding Kurt Thomas. Not my recommendation bro. Don’t believe we put ourselves in a position to win now by ‘holding’. But if he (Sund) is indeed going to ‘hold’ the core through the trade deadline, why wouldn’t he look to strengthen elsewhere? Unless of course you join the ONLY other earthly being (i.e., Jeff) who thinks that RMorris will give us more from the bench in the playoffs than Kurt Thomas.
Dezz Nuttz
February 13th, 2010
9:37 pm
Geemack Good post, Horford and Josh are good power forwards, I do think Josh is better and I do agree that we should get something for horford… good post.
Dezz Nuttz
February 13th, 2010
9:40 pm
New Kid I agree, This holding status means we will be where we were predicted to be in the beginning of the year, in 4th hoping the other teams center or start players get injured. We are a center away from breaking into the top echelon and a”fold” away from falling back to the pack.
Dezz Nuttz
February 13th, 2010
9:43 pm
If Hoe ford could play defense and protect the rim and hold his position in the paint Id be Happy for the Hawks. Be he cant and wont so lets get some one who can and will…
Dezz Nuttz
February 13th, 2010
9:44 pm
* a Hold away
doc
February 13th, 2010
11:49 pm
anyway to get drew gooden now?
mavs are now for real. go mark.
Dennis G. Berdanis
February 14th, 2010
12:11 am
It’s funny that Boston and Orlando have been just as inconsistent at the Hawks, (only Cleveland has consistenly played at a higher level) but we’re the ones not considered a contender. Hmmm.
Harpie
February 14th, 2010
12:18 am
The Hawks could win it all IF THEY HAD A COACH; but they don’t, so they won’t . Woodson is just not up to the job!