Hawks Squawks: Heat 94, Hawks 76

Haslem part of Heat's bench beatdown of Hawks. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)

Haslem part of Heat's bench beatdown of Hawks. (Curtis Compton/compton@ajc.com)

– The Hawks needed something extra from the bench on the second night of a back-to-back and with Jamal out and J.J. getting over his flu. But the Heat’s bench players outscored their Hawks counterparts 45-8, including 26-5 in the second half.

– With that kind of production from the Heat’s reserves, it hardly mattered that Dwyane Wade had a relatively quiet game with 18 points. “Their bench really beat us,” Smoove said. “Mostly when they had their run, ‘D-Wade’ was on the bench. We can’t let that happen.”

– That was bad, yet the most alarming part was seeing the Hawks sag their shoulders, scrunch their faces and seemingly throw in the towel when the Heat made its fourth-quarter run. “We had a lot of mishaps we don’t normally have,” J.J. said.

– Smoove looked particularly sour in the fourth. “It’s kind of frustrating when you don’t even give yourself a chance to win from the beginning,” he said. “I don’t think we really came to play.”

– The Hawks saw their three-game winning streak snapped and missed out on tying the 1993-94 team for most Ws before the All-Start break (34).

– After hearing a teammate talk about his plans for the break, one Hawks player said to another teammate: “It was like guys were already on vacation.” His teammate agreed.

– The Hawks needed someone else to score with Jamal (shoulder) a late scratch. Instead, J.J. was 7 of 21; Marvin was 3 of 11; Bibby was 1 for 6 on 3s, and Joe Smith, Mo, and Teague combined to shoot 2 for 8 in 41 minutes.

– The Hawks didn’t do much against the Heat’s zone D. “I like when teams play zone but we didn’t respond to it very well,” Woody said.

– Both teams played last night but only the Heat looked sluggish early. The Hawks came out challenging everything on D. Then the Heat’s bench took over.

Udonis Haslem scored 10 points in the second, Dorell Wright had five in the third and Daequan Cook made all three of his 3-point attempts in the fourth. The Heat outscored the Hawks 27-12 in the fourth.

– “Just an awful fourth quarter,” Woody said. “We either ran out of juice or didn’t have the energy to get through it. They (the Heat) were laboring a little bit in the fourth quarter too but they found some energy somehow and got it done.”

– Interesting quote from Wade on Cook’s night: “Tonight versus a team that has a roamer in Mike Bibby, he was able to get into a rhythm with his shooting.”

– Woody wants the Hawks to come back from the break re-committed. “I think this will be good in the long term,” Al said. “We just have to come back refocused.”

– Iso-Joe wasn’t good tonight. Three possessions with a missed fadeaway 3-point attempt by J.J. (Mo rebounded, got fouled and made 1 of 2 FTs), a baseline layup by J.J. and a missed J.J. runner in the lane as fans grumbled.

– The Iso-Joe count in the fourth quarter of five games: 10 possessions, 11 points, one turnover, two missed shots by teammates and two offensive rebounds.

– I’m out, Hawks fans.

MC

112 comments Add your comment

Melvin

February 10th, 2010
11:20 pm

Memo the Hawks management. Tonight was proof that they need to upgrade the bench if they are serious about challenging for a championship…

Rod from College Park

February 10th, 2010
11:47 pm

Melvin,

They need to upgrade the 3 and move the guy who should be a bench player to the bench. No Crawford, more minutes for Marvin more shots, same terrible production. Whoever these clowns are who state, we should run plays for Marvin, he should have played more minutes, this is what you will get. This is what the Hawks will look like in the playoffs when teams decide not to let Joe or Jamal beat them. I keep hearing this defense crap. We will note able to stop the Cleveland’s and the Orlando’s of the world. We will have to outscore them to win. WE NEED NBA LEVEL 3 who is able to score, hit the wide open 3 and defend. Bibby has looked bad this year, but guess what, Bibby does not make 7.5 million this year. Marvin is simply the weak link.

Lon Kruger

February 11th, 2010
12:25 am

now you see em, now they burnt off!

eyebrows

February 11th, 2010
12:25 am

where did i go?

Melvin

February 11th, 2010
12:41 am

Rod,
I still prefer Marvin as a starter as long as we could get another SF to come off the bench like John Salmons (I talk about him on the Fan Nest blog) and be the closure on some nights. Joe, Jamal, Salmon, Josh and Horford would be a pretty nice closing lineup. Three perimeter guys thats capable scoring and playing PG… Just my thoughts.

Hawks Fan In New Orleans

February 11th, 2010
1:14 am

I was at my first Hawks home game in a while and can say for sure that fans lackluster energy did not help there cause. Nice sized crowd, just not nearly loud enough to make our presence felt. I agree Rod from cp, Marvin ain’t gonna get it, cuz he ain’t got it, lol.

Josh

February 11th, 2010
2:09 am

Tough tough game coming back home. The bench score differential was nuts. 45-8 is garbage. Hope they can get going again

Clyde

February 11th, 2010
3:27 am

Yall can blame the bench all yall want but the starters should have stepped up tonight and they didn’t.

Clyde

February 11th, 2010
3:35 am

The bench scoring was 45-8 because Miami gave their bench players more minutes.

Miami – Haslem 28 minutes, D Wright 28 minutes, D Cook 21 minutes, Arroyo 14 minutes, J Anthony 12 minutes

Atlanta – Evans 16 minutes, Teague 12 minutes, Joe Smith 12 minutes, Collins 4 minutes, West 4 minutes

Woody has to develop the players he has on his bench so they can contribute like Miami’s bench. I know he doesn’t believe in his bench but he can’t continue to run his starters into the ground before the playoffs.

Coach D

February 11th, 2010
5:36 am

MC,
Absolutely LOVE the ISO-Joe count! It would be great if the other Hawks moved without the ball just a little even when he’s in his ISO mode. Then he might be able to dish it off for a lay-up. This rarely happens, though which is why there is such angst among the Hawks fans about it. Keep up the good work!!!!!!

JeJe

February 11th, 2010
5:38 am

This bench is a complete joke without Crawford.

Mo Evans’ only offensive move is to shoot contested 3’s from the corner with that horrendous release of his.

That is our only bench offense, unless you want to count Teague’s inability to hit anything, whether it be a floater or a jumpshot. Make a freaking floater for Christ’s sake

JeJe

February 11th, 2010
5:38 am

It’s obvious Woodson looked past this game. Read the article about his hopes for after the break.

What an idiot. This will psychologically kill this team if we play Miami in the 2nd round, knowing that they can now beat us on our court.

There’s no excuse losing to a team of Wade, old@$$ J’Oneal, thug-Beasley, and scrubs

Astro Joe

February 11th, 2010
7:57 am

Is it possible that without Jamal, our bench simply sucks?

Clyde

February 11th, 2010
8:03 am

Joe its possible but you have to play them more to find out. And if they do suck why are they on the team anyway. And if they are on the team what is the coaching staff doing to make their players better.

O'Brien

February 11th, 2010
8:04 am

I know the Hawks did not get much from their reserves. But this was a team loss. The starters were struggling, and the bench was struggling. But in the 4th quarter when it mattered most, our staters gave us nothing.

JJ was 7-21, Marvin was 3-10, and Bibby 1-6 from 3 (Hawks were 4-19 from 3). Even if the bench had scored 15 more points, based on the score, that would still have been a loss.

Marvin had 3 or 4 good games in a row, and Crawford was out, so this was a great opportunity for him to step up. But what does he do? Go 3-10 (one of his 3pt attempts hit the side of the backboard), and collect 4 rebounds. Hopefully he will come back after the ASB and be ready to step his game up.

I was disappointed in Teague’s play as well. But hopefully he will continue to work on his game, and hopefully get more opportunities.

Melvin,

I think the Hawks need to upgrade either the backup SF position, or the backup PG position if they want to make a run at the ECF. And although I like John Salmons, I think the Bulls will only trade him for expiring contracts (because they want to make a run at a big name FA (JJ maybe)this offseason).

A backup SF I think is worth looking into is Chris Douglas-Roberts from the Nets. He was a second round pick, and this is only his second or third year, so his contract is cheap. He lost his starting spot to Jarvis Hayes, and rumor has it he is unhappy (who wouldnt be, when your team is 4-48).

Nets might also be willing to move Josh Boone. He can provide spot minutes at PF and Center. My trade idea is Mo Evans and a second round pick (or maybe a 1st rounder, since it will in mid 20’s) for Josh Boone and CDR.

Rock Preston

February 11th, 2010
8:22 am

Its Official!!! Marvin “Duck Butt” Williams is a bust. I cant wait for him to be on the next thing smoking outta the ATL. He is garbage!!

dap01

February 11th, 2010
8:27 am

What would it take to get Jarvis Hayes?

We need someone who can simply score or shoot off the bench. The Hawks have good bench players but with out offensive movement or offensive plays, our only hope for a bench is a great one on one player (Flip or Crawford).

Astro Joe

February 11th, 2010
8:33 am

dap, Jarvis is a FA in the summer… before that, it shouldn’t take more than a 6-pack and a box of Moon Pies… if the Hawks are willing to spend.

Clyde, I don’t think we need to see a lot of this bench to know that they suck. And it is counter-intuitive to think that playing these guys more would help the team. I could see if we were getting flashes of brilliance… but we’re not. Excluding Jamal, we get fairly consistent below average performance from these guys.

The Dogfighter Returns

February 11th, 2010
8:36 am

What’s up Sekou, how are you? Welcome back. It’s been a long time since we heard from you. I hope all is well. Welcome back.

F-105 Thunderchief

February 11th, 2010
8:55 am

Hi Michael Cunningham, whoever you are. Good blog. Smoove is the stupidest nickname I’ve ever heard. And, he’s my favorite Hawk.

Grandad

February 11th, 2010
8:58 am

Clyde is on target today. Why try to lay it on the bench.
Bench min. totals:
Heat=103/Hawks=46 (sorry Clyde just putting it another way)
I know Joe was recovering…but where was our Superstar in the 4th qtr.
Was the team on his back?
Josh: “Their bench really beat us” That’s not saying our bench lost it.
Josh: “I don’t think we really came to play” I know it’s right before bthe break, but, we’ve heard this one before. Many, many times! Not just from Josh either. Actually that’s inexcuseable from professional
athletes. As a coach, I would cringe if a player uttered those words.
It seems to be the mantra under Wdsn.
Finally, we have been saying all along, what if someone gets hurt and we need Teaguer? Well, last night we did.
O’Brien – don’t be disappointed in JT, had he been playing perhaps
16 min. per game all along, he would be further along and much more ready to contribute. Bless his heart, he seems to be playing as if to not make mistakes , rather than playing to make things happen.

jean

February 11th, 2010
9:04 am

crawford is the real all star on this team its a damn shame al hortford mad it

Clyde

February 11th, 2010
9:19 am

Astro Joe is they suck then why are they on the team? That’s why you should maximize your spending and draft picks so you can get a bench. Look at Miami’s bench for a reference.

If you spend too much on your starters your bench will suck.

The Truth

February 11th, 2010
9:28 am

And the blame prize to last night lost ultimately goes to Woody for not preparing his bench for a short-handed situation that always happened during a regular season. Teague has lost his swagger and looked lost on the court. For a rookie that rarely plays, he should have been motivated to prove. What is Woody thinking? He can just flip a switch and instantly, Teague will play like an All-Star. Collins is just used as a throw-in body to kill some time. Joe Smith has still not found his shot and is content to just being a Yoda-like (rah rah) bench player who makes cameo appearances; use up his fouls and sit-down. Remember, he was the hotly perused player we were after for months. Morris has still not been given enough of an opportunity to prove that he deserves another contract. What exactly did the Hawks sign-up Mario to do, their 400K three-second player? Mo Evans, the 1-trick offense player that he is, should officially be called Mr. Inconsistent.

The runner-up blame prizes should go to two starters, Bibby and Marvin. These two players should have stepped-up and did not. Both players normally play less minutes then the other starters so should have been the fresher players for this game. As previously been summarized about Bibby’s game, he hurts us on offense and defense. For the PG general on offense, he’s one dimensional with only his streaky spot-up jumper and on defense he’s aging and too slow. At times, Marvin plays like he’s still in training camp trying to find his game. Other times, he plays with some promise. But last night, he seems to be struggling with his timing and rhythm. For those that think he should come off the bench, may want to re-consider. His production (as it is) might suffer farther from cold starts. I’m not sure if his problem is more seasoning, lack of motivation or offense chemistry. He may need to be in a more structured offense system of picks and screens because he struggles to create on his own in Woody ISO system.

Grandad

February 11th, 2010
9:40 am

The Truth:

Great obsevation on Marv, needing to be in a structured system.
I’ve been saying for some time now, that Marv would flourish elsewhere.
Another coach would be able to find and utilize his strengths. He is
‘NOT’ a slasher. We have never tried playing him in the post. He would be a wonderful high post player. Nice face up jumper, plenty of length.
This way he would need only one dribble when driving to the hoop.

O'Brien

February 11th, 2010
9:58 am

Grandad,

I remember when Boris Diaw was here, its like he was scared to shoot sometimes, and at other times, he just didnt seem involved. Maybe Boris Diaw is a simlar type of player like Marvin, in that they both need to be in a certain type of system to succeed. They need to be in a system where a coach knows how to utilize their strengths (although I’m not sure what Marvin’s strengths are, because he is so inconsistent).

STRETCH

February 11th, 2010
10:09 am

I dont care what they (management) are saying in public, they cant continue to fool themselves. Last night was the reality check.

1. Bibby is a liability on offense and defense.
2. Marvins been in the league how long? Long enough and he’s a proven bench player.
3. JJ is NOT a superstar.
4. Jamal is the MVP of this team and him not making the All-Star game is beyond common sense.
5. Getting outscored 45-8 by the MIAMI HEAT bench???? Folks this team is still growing and this year is NOT the year, not even close!

But management continues to fool themselves. And they are content with this team as it is. Blah, blah….BLAH!!!

Cleveland vs. LA in the finals. Besides the NBA is drooling of the possibility of Shaq and Kobe hooking up!

ATLFan

February 11th, 2010
10:15 am

I think the “500lb gorilla in the room” is that Al Horford cannot handle a legitimate center defensively. We struggle with every team who has a big guy. Jermaine O’neal, Dwight Howard, Shaq/lgauskas and others that don’t come to mind.

Preist Lauderdale

February 11th, 2010
10:16 am

Lon and eyebrows,

Great observations. Do you think the eyebrows had anything to do with the loss? Do you think shaving them was Potatohead’s way of protesting about not getting a contract extension yet?

Harpie

February 11th, 2010
10:19 am

The problem is BAD COACHING – Woodson SUCKS!

Mick

February 11th, 2010
10:34 am

Fire Woody, NOW!!!!

Ken Strickland

February 11th, 2010
10:40 am

Now all of a sudden the bench is to blame. Well, some of you are thinking just like Woodson. You think you can just ignore players on the bench for stretches at a time and them expect them to be ready, able and so excited about finally getting a chance to play that they will automatically go out and save the day. Why would you blame the bench for not producing and not the starters when they stink up the place.

When we’re not hitting our jumpshoots, or allowed to get easy fastbreak pts, we have nothing but ISO and one on one to fall back on. Woodson’s limited halfcourt OFF is a joke and the players know it, which is why they go playground whenever we’re forced to play halfcourt ball. Without Crawford, JJ is the only penetrator we have. This is when Bibby becomes a complete liabiltity, especially when he’s not shooting and hitting a high number of shots.

They just zoned us up and we just kept launching one failed jumper after another. In those situations, you make an effort to play inside out, not continue playing outside in. Last nights gm would have been a good time to play RMorris. Woodson is too stupid to realize that against a zone, it’s better to pass the ball inside, than trying to drive it inside.

When it comes to using strategy, making adjustments, changes, or thinking beyond his feelings and ingrained habits, Woodson simply isn’t up to the task. It’s obvious he doesn’t care about OFF, and it’s just as obvious he doesn’t know much about it either. Whenever we’re forced to play halfcourt OFF, and we go through these scoring droughts, we never come out of them. That’s because Woodson never trys anything different. He just gets angry at the players and the officials and stands on the sidelines with arms folded barking at both.

Even when we run a play, it’s usually nothing more that an isolation play, and the player ends up going one on one. Woodson is always crying DEF, while doing absolutely nothing to improve the OFF. Well, what if the other team is playing good DEF as well, and last night, the Heat brought it? They played 10 players 12 or more mins, while we played 8 players 12 or more mins. They wore us down and it showed in the 4th qtr.

We were playing the 2nd gm of a back to back, and JJ was weak, fatigued and ineffective. Yet, Woodson forced he and Horford to play over 44mins each and wore them out. If he could play JCollins he certainly could have played RMorris.

THE HAWKS ARE WINNING INSPITE OF WOODSON. COY MY A$$.

Melvin

February 11th, 2010
10:45 am

Tell them how you really feel Ken Strick…lol

Banks

February 11th, 2010
10:50 am

When I go to sleep at night I pray for my family and friends and I also pray that we trade Marvin WIlliams. He is a #2 PICK averaging 10 ppg. When he is wide open from the corner he hits the side of the back board. He gets is shot blocked by 6′3 Gaurds. I will personally drive this guy to the airport if traded. I can’t believe the Spirit signed him for 7.5 million a year and could not sign Kolvy for the Thrashers to a long term deal.

Banks

February 11th, 2010
10:51 am

Tayshawn Prince for Marvin let’s make it happen Rick Sund

Mike is Back

February 11th, 2010
10:57 am

Last night game was tough to watch…everyone was lethargic…it looked like we had mail this one in…When Cook flared up…I thought for sure Woody would come with Mario to keep from heating up…his threes and a lackluster effort on defense against JOneal…was the difference going down the stretch. We remained listless the whole game.

MC, I’m curious to know what exactly is Teague role when he is on the floor. He looks uncomfortable when he is out there. Plus, he is still playing tentative when he is running the offense. It would interesting hear Woody’s analysis of Teague development for the first half of the season.

I was surprise and disappointment by the team performance…I thought we would want to cement the half with a win going into the All Star break…Woody bares the burden of having a game plan to respond to adverse circumstances during the course of the season. Clearly, JJ was ill…why continue to play him???? Bench utilization will be a recurring theme in the second half of the season. WILL THE RESERVES GET ENOUGH PT TO BE RELIED ON IN THE PLAYOFF??????????

Despite their listless performance last night…it was a great first half. Here is hoping that the Hawks players have safe and uneventful All Star break.

Hawk n the Ham

February 11th, 2010
10:59 am

Start Teague. He needs to get the consitent minutes to become a good guard. Stephen Curry went triple-double with 36 points last night. I’m not saying Teague puts up these kind of numbers with consitent minutes, but he WILL become another Acie Law if he doesn’t get the burn.

Sid

February 11th, 2010
11:03 am

As Ive said before Jamal sets the pace for this team . We can start Bibby and play him 25 mpg but without jamal to change the pace we are subjected to 30+ minutes of the team playing at Bibbys pace and we just cant do it .

We had 15 and 12 points in the 2nd and 4th quarters and who just happened to be out that plays in those quarters ? We lost by 18 and who averages 17.8 points per game ?

We play a slow and deliberate style(1st and 3rd) with Bibby and fast energetic style(2nd and 4th) with jamal.

We really may have to try and make a move for a big . We have the perimeter contribution off the bench that we need but we have to find the inside contribution because we are in serious trouble in the postseason if Josh or Al get into foul trouble .

jamal – opp bench scoring

28-17 memphis
17-8 chicago
22-27 clipps
9- 25 OKC
19-32 Orl
28-14 Bos
25-30 Spurs

Now on average the rest of the bench scores between 5-10 ppg . We arent that far off we just cant consistent bench contribution from our backup bigs.

Astro Joe

February 11th, 2010
11:06 am

If the Hawks hire your favorite available coach next season, how many members of our current bench would you be excited about returning? Speak louder… I can only hear the crickets.

Fredsj

February 11th, 2010
11:09 am

Don’t forget how Marvin made a crucial late-game simple put back a missed, flailing heave as he reacted to the contact that never came, despite Bob Rathbun’s pre-highlighht protestations.

He hits the front of the rim a lot, as well. Perhaps he needs to hone in on the back of the rim when shooting, since not doing so can cause one to shoot it short.

Lastly, he must have smallish hands as he doesn’t finish very well and often loses control of the ball when going up or he’s challenged.

Very annoying player at present.

Melvin

February 11th, 2010
11:11 am

Astro,

You know I’m all for upgrading the bench. Give me Jamal, Teague, ZaZa and bring back Chills. Then go out and sign some QUALITY depth fill out the bench. No more penny pinching reserves such as Mario, RandMo, and Collins.

Lacsho

February 11th, 2010
11:12 am

Truth & Grandad- Great post

darrell starks

February 11th, 2010
11:29 am

Look the hawks have 2 get a center before trade dead line period, if not they do so pack your bags for the summer.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

The Truth

February 11th, 2010
11:30 am

PS
Enough of this talk about Atlanta does not support the Hawks. Case and Point; Phillips was packed last night. We endured the Cold Hawk and a slow A$$ MARTA to witness the poor performance and an All-Star performance by the Miami bench. This is not a good day for marketing and promotion.

darrell starks

February 11th, 2010
11:33 am

Woody want be back next year he is 2 stubborn, he continue the same line up every night no change at all.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

Hawk n the Ham

February 11th, 2010
11:35 am

Sund should have stepped in during this 3 team trade between Rockets, Knicks, and Wizards.

I would trade Marvin and Bibby to the Rockets, to get Al Harrington in return from the Knicks.

darrell starks

February 11th, 2010
11:35 am

This what happen when you never develop your bench, so how can us fan be mad at the bench play with no development at all from coach woody.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

February 11th, 2010
11:40 am

Rick sund have 2 get a center and BIEDRINS IS THAT GUY.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

darrell starks

February 11th, 2010
11:44 am

Hawks ham why would you trade bibby, marvin for al harrington?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

February 11th, 2010
11:46 am

Marvin should be coming in of the bench with jamal the bench would be stronger.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!