Hawks Squawks: Thunder 106, Hawks 99
Durant 2, Hawks 0. (Layne Murdoch/NBAE/Getty Images)
– Too much Kevin Durant (again), too many defensive breakdowns for the Hawks. “Defensively we were nonexistent in the second half,” Woody told FSN South’s James Verrett. “That third quarter was a bad defensive effort.”
– The Hawks pretty much controlled Durant in the second half but let Russell Westbrook get loose and kept giving up rebounds. The Thunder is a good rebounding team but 17 offensive boards?
– And what about nine boards for Westbrook vs. five for Al, six for Smoove and six for Marvin?
– The Thunder collected 28 of the Hawks’ 39 misses (72 percent). The Hawks got 26 of the Thunder’s 44 misses (59 percent).
– The Hawks got within two when Durant made a couple jumpers and set up his teammates for two scores. That was it. He’s the first player since Allen Iverson nine seasons ago to score at least 25 points in 22 consecutive games
– Durant is for real. He also gets a lot of calls. Tough to say where one ends and the other begins.
– J.J. (37 points) was feeling it. He prevented the Hawks from getting blown out in the third. And even though he wasn’t getting calls, he got to the line for eight free throws.
– This wasn’t one of those games where the Hawks had something else working and went away for it for Iso-Joe. J.J. was what the Hawks had working, they went away from him early in the fourth, and the offense stalled. “He had it going, ” Woody said. “We were picking and choosing (going to other guys) but we weren’t consistent offensively.”
– ‘Nique was calling for J.J. to come off screens instead of running isos. He got his wish late but it only served to clog things up for J.J. The Thunder was able to double him and force him to give up the ball, and no one else could make big shots at the right time.
– “We made a game of it in the fourth but then we shot ourselves out of it,” Woody said.
– But, really, this loss wasn’t about the offense. “We weren’t too flat but we just couldn’t get stops,” Woody said. “Defensively and rebounding the basketball, we are struggling a little bit in those two areas. Those are the main two areas you’ve got to be clicking to win games, especially on the road.”
– I saw one Iso-Joe in the fourth quarter though not sure if I should include it in the count because it wasn’t a called play. Al set a screen and his man doubled J.J., who backed out and decided to take Thabo Sefolosha one-on-one. He lost the ball out of bounds on the drive. Looked like a foul but goes down as a turnover.
– The Hawks put some good traps on Durant, particularly Zaza, who was showing hard. Trapping Durant might have worked if the Hawks rebounded the ball when his teammates missed.
– More early minutes for Joe Smith. He rebounded and played solid D. I still get the feeling he’s going to help the Hawks in the playoffs. He’s the kind of vet who knows how to stay ready.
– Al is making strong moves to the basket but was missing chippies lately. So it was good to see that dunk off a Bibby feed in the third quarter. But where was he in the fourth?
– Smoove is so much better when he catches the ball and immediately makes his move. When he pauses, it gives defenders a chance to scrape at the ball once he puts it on the floor.
– He’s really good at taking hard bumps and still getting off his shot. And did you see his drive and kick to J.J.? Where did that come from?
– Smoove got his 1,000th career block. He’s the youngest to do it.
– Dang ‘Rio hung in the air for that tip dunk. A little extra bounce in his step due to the new cheese?
– Marvin was just kind of out there. He really can make something happen when he attacks the basket but then he settles for jumpers and finishes his moves going away from the basket.
– Bibby’s shot seems to be back. He also was setting guys up. Hawks need that more than once every three or four nights.
– Jeff Teague was a pest on defense, made a nice runner and generally didn’t foul up. That jumper is going to take time, though.
– Hawks almost got screwed on another shotclock error. Woody was going crazy until Hawks got the ball back.
– The Magic won again. The Hawks are two games behind in the Southeast. Earlier reports had Paul Pierce missing significant time for the Celtics but now it looks like that’s not the case.
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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145 comments Add your comment
fudd21
February 3rd, 2010
3:35 pm
Darrell, I’m just curious but why would Golden State give up their best player (Ellis) and their only real big man (Biedrins) for an over the hill, slow, non-defense playing PG, a SF who has not lived up to his draft position and billing (not to mention it would stunt the growth of Randolph) and a role player in ZaZa. Especially when all 3 just signed new contracts and aren’t coming off the books anytime soon.
Oh and put me down in the group that wants NO parts of seeing Josh move to the 3. I think the team would take a step back and also put him in a position to not maximize his talents.
Rod from College Park
February 3rd, 2010
3:47 pm
Believe it or not I actually look for Marvin to have a great game tonight(by his standards 10 to 14 points max and 5 to 8 rebounds. He normally does that against the worse teams in the league. I still look for him to be outplayed by Thornton or Butler, as Thorton usually has great games against us, I wonder why?
BONE
February 3rd, 2010
3:52 pm
Man I remembaer what thornton did to us last time. I think the Hawks might come out flat again.
Astro Joe
February 3rd, 2010
3:56 pm
Melvin, why not play Zaza and Horford with Smith at the SF in those late game situations where we’re getting killed on the boards and a 6′10″ SF is shooting over our non-Marvin defenders? I don;t want to see Smith at SF for more than 3-4 minutes, but it gives that red-hot scorer a different look and it doesn’t require Joe to do the heavy lifting on both ends of the floor. Right now, we have a single defender with length to guard hot SFs. Short of going out and bringing in someone, what other options do we have other than playing Marvin the entire game? I’d be interested in hearing other ideas how to keep a decent-sized defender in front of a SF at all times… Mo? Mario? Joe… that is clearly plan B. I don’t know why Smith is not an option.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
3:59 pm
Rod, Marvin wasn’t drafted to be a superstar. He wsn’t even a superstar in College. He was drafted on potential. Just hasn’t or will never reach it.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
4:02 pm
Astro, “playing Marvin the entire game”? Hahahahaha!
Astro Joe
February 3rd, 2010
4:04 pm
Rod, you have one thing right… I don’t value “playing hard” nearly as much as I value “playing right”. Marvin has been disappointing this season, but unlike you, I qualify it as “this season”. I have never thought much of the notion of “at least he’s trying” for any player. Like you said, a 4th or 5th year player should ALWAYS be doing more than just “trying”. I’d be embarrassed if my boss went home and told his wife “well, at least Joe was trying today at work”. That should never be considered a reasonable evaluation for an employee. I’m very glad that we have moved beyond that point in the 6th NBA season for Mr. Smith.
O'Brien
February 3rd, 2010
4:10 pm
Rod,
I’ve been on Marvin too (mostly this season). But to be fair, he does provide chemistry to our starting lineup. The problem is, for $7.5 mil, we need more than chemistry from him. We need better defense, more rebounding, and he must knock down the open jumper more consistently.
However, just because there may be chemistry issues with inserting another SF into our starting lineup, that does not mean that the Hawks wouldn’t/couldn’t be a better team for it.
But it is a big risk none the less. And because the Hawks are 30-17, I dont think Sund will take that risk during the season.
Our best bet is to hope Marvin is able to turn it around this season, because we will need him to step up in the playoffs when we’re playing the SFs from the big 3 in the East (Pierce, LeBron, Pietrus and Barnes). And if he does turn it around this season, then his value would be higher to the Hawks, and to other teams.
And although he was drafted #2 and Josh was drafted #17, it was Josh who got the bigger contract, so obviously everybody realizes the value of Josh. And terrell is right.
Marvin was drafted based on potential, which means there is still a chance he will reach it.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
4:21 pm
Obrien. There’s a better chance that Suh fallls to the Falcons. lol!
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
4:23 pm
Wonder if Solo could give us more than what Zaza gives us right now had he stayed? Hmmm??
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
4:28 pm
And Marvin even got a player option in the final year of his deal at 7.5 mill. Wonder if he’ll opt out? Haha. Great work Sund. Marvin must have one hell of an agent.
JeJe
February 3rd, 2010
4:29 pm
THIS TEAM HAS NO HEART
NO ONE TO COMMIT A HARD FOUL
NO VOCAL LEADER
JUST A BUNCH OF ATHLETIC PLAYERS
HOW THE HELL DO YOU WIN IN HOUSTON, DALLAS, AND BOSTON (TWICE) BUT CAN’T EVEN BEAT THE THUNDER. LOL
JeJe
February 3rd, 2010
4:35 pm
Lol @ Celtics struggling and having inner locker-room tension, yet they are ahead of us in the standings
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
4:41 pm
I hope Joe Smith is practicing that 15 ft jump shot right about now. I swear he hasn’t made one all year long. lol!
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
4:42 pm
I meant 5-10 ft jump shot. Haha.
Traceman
February 3rd, 2010
4:44 pm
Astro,
Didn’t you know that EVERYTHING is Marvin’s fault including our nation’s current economic situation? Just ask Rod, i’m sure he will explain it to you.
It is simply AMAZING how much focus Marvin gets regarding whether we win or lose when the reality is that we win when our All Star caliber players (JJ, Al, Smoove and Crawford) play like All Stars.
Marvin is a role player on this team. When he plays his role to the best of his ability, we are certainly a better team. Even if he starts playing his role as well as he played it last year, it would be great for the team. That said, the team’s success (or lack thereof) is FAR more likely to be determined by the play of our All Star guys than anything good or bad that Marvin (or Bibby or Zaza for that matter) does.
Marvin couldn’t guard Durant? Who can? The dude has scored at least 25 points in all but FIVE games this season. He averaged 32 ppg in January (15 games) while shooting 52% from the floor and an incredible FIFTY THREE PERCENT from the 3 pt line. He should have a lock on the WC player of the month honor.
At any rate, rhe reason we lost last night’s game wasn’t because we couldn’t get stops, it was because we couldn’t rebound the ball when we did. You MUST rebound to win on the road and we simply did not do that last night. People laying the blame on Marvin for last night’s loss need to look at the inability of our frontline to rebound the ball.
I LOVE Al (wear his jersey to most games) but he has been pretty terrible since the HOU game. He is certainly not playing like an All Star. I don’t know if it is the hand injury that is keeping him from being aggressive (I assume that it is) but his rebounding has been TERRIBLE. I saw him not even go for the ball on a couple of occasions last night and that is simply not like him. In the 4 games since the HOU game, he has been out rebounded by the opposing Center by the following numbers:
27-9 Duncan
12-8 Perkins
19-4 Howard
7-5 Krisitc (Kristic averages 5 rbg)
I know he is undersized but that simply cannot continue if we are going to be successful. He needs to be pulling down his normal 9-10 boards virtually every night or we won’t win consistently, particularly against good teams.
Melvin
February 3rd, 2010
4:51 pm
Astro,
If Marvin play was effect, he could play just a many mins as the opposing team superstar SF. But I know, that sound crazy b/c we like to play Joe at SF. Riddle me this, how come Joe didn’t play as much SF when Chills was on the team?
I know I’ve been harsh on Marvin lately but I just don’t see this potential that alot of others see in him (excluding Rod/Sam). He was drafted with Superstar potential but it looks more like he’s going to be a career role player at best (where did we see him do that before). But I would prefer he prove me wrong and I will gladly eat my words. However, I will definitely continue to cheer for him especially while he’s in a Hawks uniform…
Astro Joe
February 3rd, 2010
4:54 pm
And just for the record, Marvin makes around $5.7M this year. About $1M more than Zaza. And about half of what Tayshaun makes for the Pistons (when healthy last year, Prince averaged 10 points and 5 boards).
Rod from College Park
February 3rd, 2010
5:02 pm
O’brien,
I agree with your post. But the chemistry thing is a joke. What chemistry does he bring. On offense is it chemistry to stand in the corner and do nothing but rarley hit a wide open shot. On defense does he provide great chemistry by getting torched defensively by other small forwards. The chemistry is always better when he is not on the floor. Remember last year when he went down and Mo started, we played better without him. This year we get down in the first quarter a high percentage of the time with him on the floor, and then we have better chemistry when Jamal comes on the floor. Plug any small forward in that slot and the chemistry would be better. Marvin was drafted on the potential that he would be a great player, and I can tell you now so that you won’t continue to wait, that it ain’t happening. With all his flaws, Josh has worked harder and earned the right to make more money than Marvin. Marvin never earned anything. As much as everyone wants to say that you can’t blame him for his draft position, he was paid and rewarded because of his draft status, nothing else. Any other respectable coach who believes in guys competing for starting jobs, would have benched Marvin a long time ago. Do you think Marvin would start for Phil Jackson, Pop, even Larry Brown, I don’t. Chills was better, and was relegated to the bench, and I actually was not a big Chills fan, but he brought much more than Marvin did or does to this team. You can’t have it both ways.
Astro Joe
February 3rd, 2010
5:02 pm
Melvin, I don’t care why he was drafted. I don’t even know why that is still up for discussion. During his most recent evaluation by NBA experts, it was decided that he is worth an average of $7.5M over 5 years. It’s like discussing a house’s appraisal 5 years ago… it is irrelevant, only the most current appraisal matters. And the most current one has Marvin at $7.5… which suggests that he is supposed to be a good starting SF (below the standards of Tayshaun, Josh Howard and Luol Deng). And based on last year, he was a good starter. The guy who judged Marvin at the draft is gone… and he won’t be back. If his yardstick will always be the way BK measured him, then I can understand the anger. But based on the most recent measuring stick, he isn’t that far off. His draft slot is no more relevant than my 2005 job performance grade to the way I perform my job today.
Rod from College Park
February 3rd, 2010
5:13 pm
Astro Joe,
“And just for the record, Marvin makes around $5.7M this year. About $1M more than Zaza. And about half of what Tayshaun makes for the Pistons (when healthy last year, Prince averaged 10 points and 5 boards).”
Prince is a 3 or 4 team consensus 2nd team all defensive team player. I think that is voted on by the players. That means he is that master of something, and Master of none.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
5:13 pm
Rod, hopefully we’ll draft a sf this year to compete with Marvin, or even push Marvin to the bench. Mo is as good as gone. He’s not a sf anyway. Anybody you have in mind? Because it’s going to be hard to trade him, unless we include him in a deal for someoene else or somethiing like that. Seriously.
bigdave
February 3rd, 2010
5:15 pm
Daniel…
that was my point Durant wasnt selling anything but he got a consistent whistle… its a lack of respect…
Melvin…
naw man… i agree with you and we saw a Joe doing a little of that last night. however he was getting bumped to the point of losing the ball. defenders no they can get away with more contact against Joe. i was only exaggerating for those who still feel the whistle wasnt a bit biased last night on the touch fouls. sure everyone complains about calls but, we’re talking a matter of extended possessions and turnovers, which are keys to wins.
Rod from CP…
maybe… maybe not… i mean i cant just say putting a guy thats been consistently roaming the perimeter and making him get in there and bang consistently for rebounds is advantageous. especially carrying the role he already answers to. but hey like i said, its worth a shot… in my opinion.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
5:17 pm
Hoopshype has Marvin at 7.5 this year.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
5:25 pm
Rod, how bout Damien Jones(Texas)? I hope Aminu(Wake) falls, but I kow he wont. NBA Draftnet has Atlanta taking Jerome Jordan(Tulsa) C 7′0 245lbs in rd.1
Big Ray
February 3rd, 2010
5:27 pm
Joe Johnson has the respect of many around the league and doesn’t give the refs flak, but they don’t respect him? Why?
I still don’t completely buy that theory.
Traceman
February 3rd, 2010
5:28 pm
Rod, did Marvin take your woman or something? Seriously. When is the last time you made a post that didn’t include a derogatory comment about him?
Yes, he has struggled this year but he is certainly not the only guy who has struggled after signing a new contract. Just look at this year. Andre Miller is struggling in POR (despite the 52 pt game). Richard Jefferson is struggling in SA. Hedo Turkogli is struggling in TOR. Trevor Ariza is struggling in HOU. Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva are struggling in DET. Brandon Bass (and to some degree Marcin Gortat) is struggling in ORL. Even Zaza and Bibby have struggled
this season.
A lot of it is psychological and I’m sure Marvin will get back on track just as Smoove did last year. You do remember how much Smoove struggled the first half of last season don’t you? He turned it around at the end of the season though and he is having a career year this year. Marvin is young and he can very well do the same thing. I know you would hate that though.
Rod are u stupid
February 3rd, 2010
5:29 pm
Damn, Rod, it seems like u dont even watch the games!…With your “star” Joe jacking up shot after shot, and Jamal jacking up shot after shot how can marvin ever live up to his draft status..Hell Hortford was the 3rd pick and he averages 14 a game right…so is he not living up to his status?….top 5 picks suppose to average over 20 right rod.u are insane dude..we are 3rd in the east and if we got another sf we would still be 3rd in the east..WE HAVE NO CENTER AND NO OFFENSE ROD..if we trade marvin and bring in another sf he will do one of the following…1. jack up shots and mess the chemistry up or stand in the corner and wacth joe dribble…
Astro Joe
February 3rd, 2010
5:31 pm
Joe doesn’t get calls because he doesn’t play the game to get calls. he doesn;t flop on defense and he doesn’t pump fake and lean in on offense. He plays the game “straight up”. I’m not saying that is good or bad… just the way I see it. I never see him playing any “tricks” like about 98% of other players (Bibby, for example, has a bag full of those crafty tricks). I guess I admire that philosophy but it clearly doesn;t pay off in terms of getting “star treatment”.
Rod, was Tayshaun there last year or did he (heaven forbid) have a disappointing season based on previous set standards?
Traceman
February 3rd, 2010
5:36 pm
Terrell,
Hoops hype is right. He’s at $7.5M this year but his salary goes DOWN to $6.7M next year. He will make an average of $7.5M over the 5 year life of his deal (excluding incentives).
Astro Joe
February 3rd, 2010
5:41 pm
terrell, I stand corrected… Marvin is making $7.5M. His BYC value (when using ESPN’s Trade Machine) is closer to $5.7M… that’s what I had in my head. But you’re right, he has a fairly flat salary over the 5 years.
Astro Joe
February 3rd, 2010
5:42 pm
Thanks, Traceman, you beat me to the punch.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
5:55 pm
Thats a lot of $ for Marvin. I want his agent. lol!
vava74
February 3rd, 2010
6:01 pm
Without trading Marvin (bad move – never trade when stock is down), the best option would be to change the starting line up.
Again I insist: for the purpose of jolting things a bit, JJ at the SF spot and Mo at the SG is what makes more sense. JJ is better suited for the 3 spot than Mo and Mo better suited for the 2 spot (and more productive when given more minutes).
Traceman
February 3rd, 2010
6:16 pm
Vava,
I can’t see starting Mo no matter how much Marvin struggles. Yes, Marvin is struggling but the talent level is not even close. Mo’s BEST season (his last season in ORL) was not as productive as the season Marvin is having now and it pales in comparison to what Marvin did last year.
I agree that shaking things up a bit could help Marvin but starting Mo is not the way I would choose to go about it. I think Woody usually tries to get him some looks early in the game and that’s good but he tends to not call Marvin’s number much in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. I’d like to see Woody try to run more stuff for him in the middle of the game to keep him from drifting.
If that doesn’t work, I could see trying him off the bench but if I changed the starting lineup, I would try starting Jamaal at SG first rather than Mo. Honestly though, at 30-17, I don’t think I’d change the lineup. I would just keep Marvin on a short leash.
Ken Strickland
February 3rd, 2010
6:23 pm
All of you should know by now you’re just pissing in the wind if you think Woodson is going to make any changes or adjustments. So, suggestions like sending Bibby or Marvin to the bench, playing Teague more mins, extending his rotation or trading any of the players he insisted Sund resign. He’s going to finish the remainded of this season riding the backs of his MAGNIFICENT 7(starting 5 plus Zaza & Crawford), sink of swim.
He’s simply inflexible, has limited vision and doesn’t see the big picture, or make decisions that involve the future.
Rod from College Park
February 3rd, 2010
6:42 pm
Traceman,
“Rod, did Marvin take your woman or something? Seriously. When is the last time you made a post that didn’t include a derogatory comment about him?”
If he did why would that matter to you? He still would be an overpaid bum on the basketball court. It’s my opinion which has been proven this year, and I will continue to speak on it. Deal with it.
Whoevever,
“WE HAVE NO CENTER AND NO OFFENSE ROD”
We have an all star center on one of the top offenses in the east, so everything else you said is disqualified. Grow some nuts, be a man and stand up on your own two.
Simpdawg
February 3rd, 2010
6:53 pm
I said last summer that the Hawks should not have resigned Marvin Williams. They should have signed Josh Childress and David Andersen. This is the reasons why the Hawks will not make it to the Eastern Conference finals, hell they may not make it to the second round.
O'Brien
February 3rd, 2010
6:54 pm
There is nobody who the Hawks cna draft to compete with Marvin for his SF spot. Our draft pick will be in the late teens or early 20s.
If Chills couldnt take Marvin’s spot, no late first round draft pick will.
AJ,
Tayshaun Prince is not a good choice to compare Marvin to. Although Prince’s offensive numbers might be comparable, his defense is outstanding.
Prince was named to the 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 NBA All defense second team.
If Marvin can play that kind of defense, I think people will cut him some slack where his offense is concerned.
Traceman
February 3rd, 2010
6:57 pm
It matters to me because I happen to think Marvin is a great guy who plays for my favorite team. I also think Marvin is a very talented young player who will get better. He represents the franchise well and I want to see him succeed, just as I want to see ALL of the Hawks succeed.
Your opinion has been proven? The only thing that has been proven is that you are obsessed with Marvin. That said, speak on brother, speak on!
Blast
February 3rd, 2010
7:04 pm
Game blog up!
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
7:15 pm
Bibby still strugglin
Simpdawg
February 3rd, 2010
7:19 pm
It’s amazing to me that a player like Marvin Williams, who has played in the league over four years, has not improved on his game. Take a player like Danny Granger. He was drafted the same year as Marvin. Marvin selected second overall and Granger selected seventeenth overall. They are both similar in size and play the same position, but over the years Grangers’ game has continue to improved and Marvin continue to struggle with his game. Please help me out somebody.
Simpdawg
February 3rd, 2010
7:31 pm
If the Hawks lose to the Clippers at home, I’m through with this team.
ROD SHUT UP
February 3rd, 2010
7:34 pm
Al Hortford is 6ft 8 ….At Fla he played PF..HE IS A POWER FORWARD..we will never beat Orlando with a 6 ft 8 center Rod from the clayton county side of college park..lift your head up for some air dude….