Hawks Squawks: Thunder 106, Hawks 99
Durant 2, Hawks 0. (Layne Murdoch/NBAE/Getty Images)
– Too much Kevin Durant (again), too many defensive breakdowns for the Hawks. “Defensively we were nonexistent in the second half,” Woody told FSN South’s James Verrett. “That third quarter was a bad defensive effort.”
– The Hawks pretty much controlled Durant in the second half but let Russell Westbrook get loose and kept giving up rebounds. The Thunder is a good rebounding team but 17 offensive boards?
– And what about nine boards for Westbrook vs. five for Al, six for Smoove and six for Marvin?
– The Thunder collected 28 of the Hawks’ 39 misses (72 percent). The Hawks got 26 of the Thunder’s 44 misses (59 percent).
– The Hawks got within two when Durant made a couple jumpers and set up his teammates for two scores. That was it. He’s the first player since Allen Iverson nine seasons ago to score at least 25 points in 22 consecutive games
– Durant is for real. He also gets a lot of calls. Tough to say where one ends and the other begins.
– J.J. (37 points) was feeling it. He prevented the Hawks from getting blown out in the third. And even though he wasn’t getting calls, he got to the line for eight free throws.
– This wasn’t one of those games where the Hawks had something else working and went away for it for Iso-Joe. J.J. was what the Hawks had working, they went away from him early in the fourth, and the offense stalled. “He had it going, ” Woody said. “We were picking and choosing (going to other guys) but we weren’t consistent offensively.”
– ‘Nique was calling for J.J. to come off screens instead of running isos. He got his wish late but it only served to clog things up for J.J. The Thunder was able to double him and force him to give up the ball, and no one else could make big shots at the right time.
– “We made a game of it in the fourth but then we shot ourselves out of it,” Woody said.
– But, really, this loss wasn’t about the offense. “We weren’t too flat but we just couldn’t get stops,” Woody said. “Defensively and rebounding the basketball, we are struggling a little bit in those two areas. Those are the main two areas you’ve got to be clicking to win games, especially on the road.”
– I saw one Iso-Joe in the fourth quarter though not sure if I should include it in the count because it wasn’t a called play. Al set a screen and his man doubled J.J., who backed out and decided to take Thabo Sefolosha one-on-one. He lost the ball out of bounds on the drive. Looked like a foul but goes down as a turnover.
– The Hawks put some good traps on Durant, particularly Zaza, who was showing hard. Trapping Durant might have worked if the Hawks rebounded the ball when his teammates missed.
– More early minutes for Joe Smith. He rebounded and played solid D. I still get the feeling he’s going to help the Hawks in the playoffs. He’s the kind of vet who knows how to stay ready.
– Al is making strong moves to the basket but was missing chippies lately. So it was good to see that dunk off a Bibby feed in the third quarter. But where was he in the fourth?
– Smoove is so much better when he catches the ball and immediately makes his move. When he pauses, it gives defenders a chance to scrape at the ball once he puts it on the floor.
– He’s really good at taking hard bumps and still getting off his shot. And did you see his drive and kick to J.J.? Where did that come from?
– Smoove got his 1,000th career block. He’s the youngest to do it.
– Dang ‘Rio hung in the air for that tip dunk. A little extra bounce in his step due to the new cheese?
– Marvin was just kind of out there. He really can make something happen when he attacks the basket but then he settles for jumpers and finishes his moves going away from the basket.
– Bibby’s shot seems to be back. He also was setting guys up. Hawks need that more than once every three or four nights.
– Jeff Teague was a pest on defense, made a nice runner and generally didn’t foul up. That jumper is going to take time, though.
– Hawks almost got screwed on another shotclock error. Woody was going crazy until Hawks got the ball back.
– The Magic won again. The Hawks are two games behind in the Southeast. Earlier reports had Paul Pierce missing significant time for the Celtics but now it looks like that’s not the case.
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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145 comments Add your comment
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
10:29 am
Or Zaza and Marvin for Murphy and Dauntay Jones.
Rod from College Park
February 3rd, 2010
10:31 am
Melvin,
Exactly about Astro Joe. He just told me what a great defender Marvin was, now it should have been Josh’s responsibility to guard MArvin’s man. These are also the same guys who told me I was crazy for saying that MArvin was not our best on ball defender. They actually had nerve to say Marvin was a better on ball defender than Josh. Pure comedy. If Josh is guarding Durant, who will rebound?
Barry Gee
February 3rd, 2010
10:32 am
Here’s my list of the Hawks MAJOR problems:
1. Mike Woodson has ABSOLUTELY NO OFFENSIVE GAME PLAN.
2. I love Horford but he is NOT A CENTER, WE NEED A TRUE 5.
3. Josh Smith still taking that 15-20 Foot Jumper
4. Bibby has regressed, he is not shooting the ball well.
5. I’m sorry but Marvin Williams, you are now officially a BUST!
6. Josh Smith trying to dribble too much
7. Woodson not playing TEAGUE and not giving him any confidence
8. The Hawks switching on defense is lazy at best, STAY WITH YOUR MAN.
9. They don’t seem to be inspired at times
10. They leave too many guys open NIGHTLY!
Publix
February 3rd, 2010
10:34 am
I would move BIBBY for Sessions and trade Marvin and Zaza for Murphy.
Start: Sessions, Joe, Josh, Horford, Murphy
Bench: Teague, Crawford, Evans, Smith, Morris
Championship team!
Publix
February 3rd, 2010
10:35 am
and you are saving a ton of money for the upcoming free agency
Barry Gee
February 3rd, 2010
10:36 am
I would trade Marvin and Za Za for Tayshaun Prince and another player in a heartbeat. Is it me or has Marvin Williams been GOD AWFUL this year? Marvin Williams is a bust and should be traded immediately following the season or maybe before the trading deadline. As is, we will NOT beat Cleveland or Orlando.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
10:38 am
I bet if Lebron was on the Nets, they’d be better than the Hawks. Seriously.
Melvin
February 3rd, 2010
10:38 am
I don’t like the idea of starting Joe at SF. That would require him to defend bigger players on defense. He is already Mr. Do-It-All for this team. He defends the opposing team best perimeter player from 1-3 spot. Why put more pressure on him to guard the opposing team best scorer for the entire game? I would prefer he use most of his energy on offense like the other great scorers in the game (KD, Melo, Bron, Kobe, Wade). We need a guy who can defend and score at SF spot therefore allowing Joe to concentrate more energy on offense (i.e. bring back Chills). Get it done Sund…
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
10:40 am
Barry Gee, the problem is, who wants Marvin? Gotta get some idiot to take him 1st. lol!
Rod from College Park
February 3rd, 2010
10:44 am
As much as I hate to say it, because I really do repect the way Joe plays the game (no whining, and arguing about calls), and old statement comes to mind. “When in Rome, do as the Romans.” All of the great players get calls because they scream at the refs. It is an NBA (Stern) thing, but it also is a form a psychology. If you convince the refs that everytime you miss a shot, someone had to foul you, they eventually start believing it. Another phrase that applies is “Quiet mouths don’t get fed.” In order to get more calls, Joe will have to change his approach or his demeaner. Name me one guy in the league, who is a superstar who does not bark at the refs constantly. I can think of one or two, and that’s Tim Duncan and Durant, and they both still do it frequently.
Rod from College Park
February 3rd, 2010
10:49 am
Melvin,
“I don’t like the idea of starting Joe at SF. That would require him to defend bigger players on defense.”
He does it now anyways. All of those guys you named, Joe ends up checking them anyway. With him and Mo on the floor, it would be no different than with him and Marvin. I actually have been impressed with Joe guarding those players. He seems to be the only player besides Josh and Mario, who has any success defensively on those guys.
vava74
February 3rd, 2010
10:54 am
Astro,
Durant made quite a few shots coming off picks (although he did handle a lot of plays as well on ISO situations).
The fact that Krstic had more rebounds will few touches does not overrule the fact that, typically, bigs are more active in the boards if they are more involved on offense.
Krstic example is no good for me since he is a role player and knows it, whilst Josh and Al are not and are psychologically less prepared to withstand huge droughts due to lack of touches.
I rather see JJ racking up 10 assists and scoring 22 than what we had yesterday.
With this I am not saying that JJ is not valuable in ISO situations and that he carries us many times, HOWEVER, since he is a shooter, it is up to the coach to refrain him from forcing too much beyond the limit like he sometimes does, by over handling or launching 3 pointers early in the shot clock without our bigs boxing out.
Rod,
Crawford as a starter would make us a lot more fragile defensively and I really think that offensively he is more poised and knows better how to generate points if he has time to evaluate the game flow from the bench. Mo would be the blue collar guy in the back court and would produce enough to justify his minutes.
As for Marvin, I still consider him to be an important chip and sufficiently talented to warrant our patience, however, it is obvious that he needs a jolt and that must come from Woody.
Benching him and DEMANDING him to be aggressive with the second unit should do the trick.
I suspect that due to last year’s injuries and the less touches on offense he is mentally blocked and is even less aggressive than his normal self. Since he was a sixth man in NC, I think he could adapt well to that role, even if only temporarily.
In the event that he continued apathetic, I would get RandMo in and go extra big with our second unit (Joe Smith, Zaza/Collins, RandMo). Joe can spread the defenses with his Js and Collins would provide low post offense. Collins/Zaza would provide the banging.
Since most second units are not only less talented but typically less tall, I think it could work in many situations, in particular on the rebounding side since Crawford would certainly jack up a lot of Js.
If the opponents were playing small, we could use West in spot occasions.
theZaZaguy
February 3rd, 2010
10:59 am
We got out rebounded and lost the turnover battle. Hard to win when that happens. I wonder what the correlation is between wins and turnover ratio wins? I bet it would track pretty closely.
Wednesday Bolts – 2.3.10 | Daily Thunder.com
February 3rd, 2010
11:01 am
[...] From Hawks Squawks, the AJC’s blog: “Durant is for real. He also gets a lot of calls. Tough to say where one ends and the other begins … I saw one Iso-Joe in the fourth quarter though not sure if I should include it in the count because it wasn’t a called play. Al set a screen and his man doubled J.J., who backed out and decided to take Thabo Sefolosha one-on-one. He lost the ball out of bounds on the drive. Looked like a foul but goes down as a turnover.” [...]
ILL-logical
February 3rd, 2010
11:02 am
Following up on VaVa74’s 10:54 post, one thing that struck me last night was how unathletic the Hawk’s second unit is, especially in the front court.
This factor may become critical when facing the Magic/ Cavs. Perhaps a tweek in the starting line up/ the addition of one of ,for instance,Wizard’s young bigs could be accomplished before the playoffs.
Melvin
February 3rd, 2010
11:02 am
Rod,
Joe does guard those guys during crunch time or when he move to SF which I prefer but not to start the game. Let him take the smaller or weaker guy to start the game.
The way I see, the Hawks need to upgrade the PG or SF spot. We can’t be deficient at both positions, undersize in the paint and expect this team to be good defensively. Besides, this team doesn’t have the size and length to be a great defensive team. If the Hawks are remain with the current undersize frontcourt, than they better upgrade on the perimeter positions.
darrell starks
February 3rd, 2010
11:18 am
Look monta ellis, and joe in the back court would be the best in the nba, josh, horford, biedrins would be the best defensive front court in the nba, that line up of monta, joe, josh, horford, biedrins would be and up grade at every position.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
dhawk
February 3rd, 2010
11:21 am
vava74, we fell way behind in the 3rd because no one could convert offensively running plays for Horford, Smooth, Bibby, etc. Down 13 and about to get blowed out, JJ just took over to get us back in the game. Once we caught up with about 4 minutes to go, Woody wanted to give JJ a break (who played the entire 2nd half btw), by running plays for others. The lead started to increase again for OKC. Bottom line our frontcourt got outrebounded badly and offensively didn’t have it last night, even though there was no Duncan or D.Howard to stop them.
MuscleFlexer
February 3rd, 2010
11:34 am
The Hawks employed a DUMB strategy last night to beat the Thunder instead of a simple one. OK, we know that Kevin Durant is one of the top scorers in the nba, that is no secret to anyone. Green went off for 19 points but the rest of the thunder were fairly silent. Why not DOUBLE TEAM KEVIN DURANT FROM THE BEGINNING, and force him to give up the ball to his teammates. This strategy would have worked and the Hawks would have had a “W”. It works because Durants supporting cast are not world beaters and they are not going to destroy you. This strategy wont work with the Orlando Magic because if you double Dwight Howard, the magic have phenomical 3-point shooters out on the perimeter and they will knock them down. But against the Thunder, that is what you do to secure the victory. Oh well, maybe next time the Hawks will do the right thing.
vava74
February 3rd, 2010
11:34 am
dhawk,
I saw the game, however, it’s a “text book situation” known by most coaches and accepted as gospel: most bigs have to be involved on offense from the early going in order to produce well.
It’s difficult to get Al or Josh involved in the low post when the game is half way, their mind set and focus are lost and that reflects badly on the defensive end and on the boards particularly.
We started really well with a bunch of stops and we could have jumped easily out of the gates with a 15 point advantage in the first 8 minutes, however, instead of going inside we started to jack up jumpers. It was out right ugly and at that stage JJ was 2 for 6, Marvin 1 for 4, Bibby 0 for 2, Mo 0 for 1…
I know that Al was also 1 for 4 at that stage with 3 bricks down low, however, I would have continued to feed him since his dominance of Krstic would come sooner rather than later. Also, Josh was then 3-3 and even so he was not getting the rock as he should have.
I MUS WRITE
February 3rd, 2010
11:52 am
Let me just start off by saying that Marvin Gaye Williams is a Wack Sandwich. I thought he would at a minimum be as good as last year boi was i wrong…..
DING!!!!- Publix -I would be all over both those trades.
Sessions is an average shooter but he thrives at getting to the rim and playing D. Bibby’s shot has’nt really been falling all year and he hurts us defensively -playing with the ankle weights… Minnesota absolutely wont do this trade but Sessions would be a nice fit
Murphy for Zaza/Marvin I dont think Indiana does this either but we could get 2 players in one if they would….Long range shooting and 12 boards a game -sign me up.
Is Hakim Warrwick available
Duluth Danny
February 3rd, 2010
11:54 am
All that trade talk is fun but really who wants Bibby or Marvin Williams? Terrible contracts.
MOTION OFFENSE and more straight up d. Heck the zone seemed to work last night but he went back to the switch on all defense again. Teams are figuring that out and it is killing us, especially on the D boards.
jean
February 3rd, 2010
11:55 am
its amazing how joe can have his best game and still choke down the stretch…no tmake the right pass lose the ball force a shot…….he burns of 15 second of the clock even when we are loseing
darrell starks
February 3rd, 2010
12:06 pm
Duluth golden state is making a change ellis is on the trade block, if the hawks can get ellis and biedrins it would benefit both team they get bibby, marvin, zaza, and a first, for ellis and biedrins neither team could go wrong plus zaza could starte and they get our first and marvin need a change.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
I MUS WRITE
February 3rd, 2010
12:07 pm
Darrell-U do know Bedrinis and Monte would cost us about 23 milli a year.
Tyger
February 3rd, 2010
12:14 pm
Hawks are flawed and need a trade for a legitimate 7fter and shooter.
Tracy Morgan
February 3rd, 2010
12:18 pm
I wub it, I WUB IT!
darrell starks
February 3rd, 2010
12:31 pm
PLUS CONTRACT WILL EVEN OUT SINCE YOU GUYS LIKE 2 USE THE TRADE MACHINE, and throw in the right of afro puffs contract no way golden state turn down that offer.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
darrell starks
February 3rd, 2010
12:34 pm
BIBBY 2MILL, MARVIN 8MILL, CHILL 6MILL, ZAZA 5MILL= 21 MILL
MONTA 11MILL, BIEDRINS 9MILL= 20MILL
GO HAWKS!!!!!
O'Brien
February 3rd, 2010
12:40 pm
I have been on Marvin this season, deservedly so. And I dont think there is any defense for his play the last few games. Somebody needs to light a fire under his tail.
All I can say, is he is only 23, and this is the first year of his contract. Hopefully he can prove us detractors wrong (like Josh did)and step his game up. It would be nice if he could step it up this season, especially in the playoffs.
But I dont think the Hawks can trade him this year because of his BYC status. However, all options should be explored in the offseason.
I agree with Melvin. We are winning despite being deficient at both PG and SF. It would be nice if we could get an upgrade at one of those spots.
And Mo Evans is really a backup SG (he is undersized as a backup SF). Hopefully Chills will lower his asking price, so we can bring him back this offseason.
Another question we’ve discussed in the past, is who is our leader on the court? JJ is captain by default, but I dont think the Hawks have a leader on the court. I think thats another issue for the Hawks.
We need someone to be a coach/leader on the court. Bibby does it sometimes, but with the way his minutes have declined, we need somebody else to step up and assume that role.
How often do you see Kobe, LeBron, Chauncey, Wade, KG or Pierce, the list goes on, barking instructions to their teamates. Or getting on them, or motivating them out there?
Too often we stand around as a team while things are going wrong, or you’ll see us look to the sidelines.
darrell starks
February 3rd, 2010
12:55 pm
O BRIEN i agree with you but until the hawks can get a center and move horford 2 power ford they will not advance in the play offs.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
darrell starks
February 3rd, 2010
12:57 pm
TRADING BIBBY, MARVIN, ZAZA, AND THROW IN THE RIGHT OF CHILL PLUS OUR FIRST FOR ELLIS, AND BIEDRINS, will make us better we get our point guard plus we get our center.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Astro Joe
February 3rd, 2010
1:29 pm
Melvin, you’re right, why should I expect more from a $58M player than a $38M one? My bad.
Daniel
February 3rd, 2010
1:46 pm
as far as the trade scenario’s go. You have to remember that Marvin is in his BYC year, which makes trading him that much more difficult.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
2:10 pm
I still say we should go after Murphy and Dauntay Jones for Marvin and Zaza. We could even throw in a draft pick if they include Jeff Foster. They’re trying to move Murphy, so it wouldn’t hurt to ask. lol!
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
2:16 pm
I forgot about that Daniel. So lets do Bibby/Zaza,1st for Murphy/Earl Watson
Melvin
February 3rd, 2010
2:27 pm
Astro,
Because Josh makes more $$$ you are going to reduce Marvin responsiblity? Josh earns his money, can you say the same about Marvin? Do you think Marvin is a more desirable trade piece than Josh? Please, let’s not have Rod from CP post a list of SF’s that have equal (or better) stats and make less money.
J.J.M.
February 3rd, 2010
2:29 pm
trade marvin for camby
northcyde
February 3rd, 2010
2:35 pm
from dhawk:
(( vava74, we fell way behind in the 3rd because no one could convert offensively running plays for Horford, Smooth, Bibby, etc. Down 13 and about to get blowed out, JJ just took over to get us back in the game. Once we caught up with about 4 minutes to go, Woody wanted to give JJ a break (who played the entire 2nd half btw), by running plays for others. The lead started to increase again for OKC. Bottom line our frontcourt got outrebounded badly and offensively didn’t have it last night, even though there was no Duncan or D.Howard to stop them. ))
I’m glad you paid attention to that. A lot of Hawk fans don’t. They hate seeing JJ actually trying to play like a superstar by taking superstar type shots. They’d rather for him to pass to less skilled offensive players, than for him to shoot the ball when hot.
After going 2 – 6, JJ made 11 of his next 12 shots. He had made 8 in a row at one point. Why in the world would you go away from a player that is on fire like that? But some on this board hates to see the one-on-one play. They would rather for JJ to do like he did in the Orlando game, and pass to people who simply isn’t making shots or not converting post-ups, just for the sake of “ball movement”.
Last night, when JJ had it going, Smoove and Horford should have made it a PRIORITY to secure every rebound that they could, so that they could give JJ more opportunities to score the basketball. They are the primary rebounders on the team. They can’t afford to take nights off on the boards.
When Andre Miller went off a few nights ago for 52 points, you didn’t see Juwan Howard sulking, because he only got 3 shots. No . . he hit the boards,and got 12 rebounds.
Marvin led the team in defensive rebounds with 6. Smoove grabbed 5. Bibby grabbed 4. Horford grabbed 2. Switching defense or not, there’s no way that Bibby should have more defensive rebounds than Horford . . . EVER.
With the Clips coming in here tonight, there’s no way we can have a defensive rebounding effort like that tonight. Kaman and Camby are two of the best rebounding tandem of big men in the league. If we give this team a lot of 2nd chances, this game will be a lot closer than what it should be.
We’ll see which Clipper big man the board will be ranting and raving about in about 9 hours.
newkid
February 3rd, 2010
2:45 pm
With the trade deadline only a couple weeks off, would the Pistons do a deal for Marvin (5.6 byc), Zaza (4.75), and Collier (expiring), for Prince and Kwame? What about Marvin, Zaza, and the rights to Chill for Prince, Kwame, and a future 1st? If so, I hope Sund considers.
Daniel
February 3rd, 2010
2:48 pm
terrell- Murphy certainly brings a skill set to the bench that Joe Smith and Za Za don’t have, particularly the outside shot. But, with JC on the bench is Murphy what the bench needs? I thought we needed more inside toughness and rebounding. Earl Watson is a waste.
Astro Joe
February 3rd, 2010
2:49 pm
Melvin, when have I “reduced Marvin’s responsibility”? Because I want to see our our wannabe DPOY take on 6′9″ SFs instead of Joe for about 3-4 minutes? I’d love for Marvin to defend those guys for 48 minutes AND hit all of his open jumpers AND get me a big bowl of popcorn. I just don’t think that is realistic. So when he sits and instead of Joe doing the heavy lifting, I suggested that maybe Smith could take on that role for a few minutes. What’s the big deal about that?
Melvin
February 3rd, 2010
3:08 pm
Astro,
Let me see if I understand you correctly. You’re suggesting that while Marvin sits, Josh guard the hot hand and you want Joe to battle the big boys in the paint? How is that helping Joe, having to battle with guys who are a few inches taller and 40-50lbs heavier?
I got an idea, what if our starting SF can contribute enough to validate him being on the floor during crunchtime therefore allowing our All-Star SG to defend the opposing team guard. That way everyone can play straight up without the switch-a-roo on defense…
Daniel
February 3rd, 2010
3:21 pm
Melvin/Astro- Or we could get All Star level play at every position and the bench then we wouldn’t have to worry about any of this stuff. Maybe we could have a reincarnation of the original Dream Team, (I hope Chuck Daly wouldn’t run to many Iso Jordan plays and of course Teague would still need to get his 15 minutes a game, but…) We are not trading Marvin this year, HE IS A BYC PLAYER, next year we will not trade him because his contract is favorable to us, but to no one else who would deal us anything of value (to long of terms).
You know there is something to be said for continuity (in fact it may be these Hawks greatest strength) and sometimes when a team is a serious playoff team and one or two players are not at their perceived maximum, they sometimes can elevate their games given time.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
3:22 pm
For everybody who keeps saying, “Teague aint ready”, if Ole stubborn butt would’ve given him some signifigant min. earlier in the season, he WOULD be ready.
Daniel
February 3rd, 2010
3:23 pm
I know patience and big picture thinking is not always the sexiest way to react, especially after a loss, but it may be the only reasonable way. Just a thought
Rod from College Park
February 3rd, 2010
3:28 pm
Melvin,
“I got an idea, what if our starting SF can contribute enough to validate him being on the floor during crunchtime therefore allowing our All-Star SG to defend the opposing team guard. That way everyone can play straight up without the switch-a-roo on defense…”
Astro won’t agree with that Melvin. He wants to keep making excuses for a 5th year player about how young he is or how he is leaning when he shoots or how hard it is to guard better players and score also. A bunch of hogwash. Josh and Marvin should never be compared. One guy (Josh)no matter how bad he plays, goes out and gives you everything he has on a nightly basis. The other (Marvin), you have to try to remember if he actually played or not. One player was drafted as a project, and one was drafted as a apparent superstar. I wonder which guy has worked harder?
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
3:29 pm
Daniel, Earl Watson is a waste? Bibby makes 3 times as much as Watson. So what does that make Bibby? A triple waste? How bout Bibby/Zaza/1st for Murphy/Dauntey Jones/Foster?
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
3:32 pm
I meant Bibby/Zaza/1st for Murphy/Dauntey Jones?
Rod from College Park
February 3rd, 2010
3:34 pm
Daniel,
“You know there is something to be said for continuity (in fact it may be these Hawks greatest strength) and sometimes when a team is a serious playoff team and one or two players are not at their perceived maximum, they sometimes can elevate their games given time.”
Take a look at Marvin’s career playoff averages. Please don’t hold your breath waiting. I actually like reading your responses sometimes. Marvin brings nothing in the way of Chemistry, Continuity or any of that other crap. He is waht you call a liability. Of course you know this is not a new or recent concept of mine, I have said it from the day we drated him. When he was making 2 or 3 million a year, I might understand it a little but 7.5 million, no way.