Hawks at Thunder, AKA Could You Help a Beat Writer Out?
The debate over Iso-Joe got me to thinking, and that’s always dangerous. Wouldn’t it be cool to have some numbers that shed some light on the effectiveness of Iso-Joe?
So it’s my hope going forward to track the results of fourth quarter Iso-Joe situations, defined as any play where it appears the primary aim is for J.J. to take his man one-on-one in a set halfcourt. The possible results are a made shot, missed shot with defensive rebound, missed shot with offensive rebound, turnover, assist, foul with no free throw or foul that leads to a free throw, all by either J.J. or a teammate (holla if there is a possible result I’m missing).
Some of you stat types might know a better resource than me, but the best fourth-quarter numbers I could find are these ‘08-’09 breakdowns at 82games.com. They are interesting but they don’t say anything about this season, nor do they break it down by play type or possessions. So I think tracking this myself is the best way to go about it.
But I need your help tracking Iso-Joes for two reasons. One is transparency–I wouldn’t want you to think I’m juking the stats. Another is expediency-sometimes I’ve got a lot of things going on during games and maybe I miss an Iso-Joe here or there. If I post my Iso-Joe numbers and lots of you have something different, we can work that out, agree on the numbers and move on.
My goal is to have a quantitative way to evaluate Iso-Joe by the end of the regular season (that’s 36 more games counting tonight). Maybe no meaningful conclusions come out of it. It could be that we end up with a weak sample size. The inability to compare Iso-Joe numbers going forward to games already played is a drawback. It also might be more illustrative to compare the results of Iso-Joe to the other play types the Hawks run in the fourth quarter but, to be honest, I think that might just be too ambitious and time-consuming for me on deadline. But if any of you want to give it a shot, I’m down.
At the very least the numbers we come up with can be part of the Iso-Joe conversation. Even if that amounts to pointing out all the ways they aren’t useful, that’s something, right? Because then we are talking about what else should be considered and doing our best to analyze Iso-Joe. Anyway, let me know if you think I’m onto something and if you are willing to help me out.
– I’m not on the road with the team, so I’ll be watching it on television like most of you. It’s not the best situation, but is what it is, you know? I’m still going to do the best postgame blog I can even though it’s better to get locker room perspectives.
– Talk amongst yourselves, Hawks fans.
MC
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265 comments Add your comment
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
7:52 pm
MC, is ajc going cheap on you and the Hawks?
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
7:59 pm
Durantula might shred the hawks
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
7:59 pm
This will be an interesting exercise, however, you should tell JJ that we will be keeping track!
in order for this work you will need a constant panel of at least 5 or 6 people since there some around here that are soooo biased that the 4th quarter against Boston lastima week would have produced a negative stat line for JJ’s ISOs…
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
8:01 pm
lets get it…
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
8:01 pm
Slow bizzaround here today… zzzzzz zzzzzz zzzzzz zzzzz zzzzz zzzz….
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
8:02 pm
Hawks better take OKC seriously, because they are coming to play.
On the iso talk, no Hawk player should hold the ball longer than 5 seconds. That’s all AL needs when he posts up, dribble dribble, back his man down and shoot a hook shot. 5 seconds. If Joe pounds the ball longer than 5 seconds, he’s gonna see a double. And he needs to pass out quicker on the double.
Hope Hawks brought it tonight! Go Hawks!
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
8:06 pm
BONE,
positive as usual!
I’m sure that you were happier when we won only 13 games!
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
8:07 pm
VaVa I didn’t say we couldn’t win. As long as we shut the other players down then I could care less how many he scores.
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
8:10 pm
If Durant goes for 50 but we win, he win not be schreding anything.
He will be doing what want we consented him to do.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
8:12 pm
Glad to see Josh go inside. LOL @ bibby again
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
8:15 pm
Damn Marvin Box out U duck
JB
February 2nd, 2010
8:15 pm
Durantula game-winning 3 again? It’s gonna be a fun game
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
8:18 pm
foul… and he initiated the contact…
joe has looked quick last 3 games…
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
8:18 pm
We are squandering an oportunity to open a good lead by playing careless and dumb.
The shots are being rushed and there is no focus.
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
8:20 pm
Joe been reading the blogs…
JB
February 2nd, 2010
8:23 pm
What’s up with our slow starts?
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
8:27 pm
Poor ball movement… Marvin biting every fake Durant made and then Mo matched against a guy which is 5 inches taller…
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
8:27 pm
Jumpshots again?
Najeh Davenpoop
February 2nd, 2010
8:28 pm
I wonder if the “Josh Smith doesn’t have post moves and lacks fluidity” crowd saw that last play.
Ree Roe
February 2nd, 2010
8:28 pm
Good move Josh with the and 1. Ree Roe likey
-REEcently Roe!!!
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
8:31 pm
Teague sighting. When he makes 1 mistake he’s out tho
The proAtl
February 2nd, 2010
8:31 pm
Thank You, Josh…Finally somebody taking the ball to the rim…SHEESSH!!
JB
February 2nd, 2010
8:33 pm
I don’t think this business of drawing contact is that simple. It’s not an on/off switch kind of thing. The players who can get to the line do it because they have the unique ability to do it. They grew up playing that way. Joe’s game is much more about craftiness and angles. He’s just not a very in your face type of player. When do you see him dunking and crashing boards and all that stuff?
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
8:34 pm
There is more ball movement when we have a PG in the game. Imagine that
JB
February 2nd, 2010
8:36 pm
“I wonder if the “Josh Smith doesn’t have post moves and lacks fluidity” crowd saw that last play.”
They saw it and said “Josh Smith still doesn’t have post moves and lacks fluidity”
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
8:39 pm
Teague with the strip when he gets in the game. Then he follows it up with what looked like a pretty clean block, but I guess the official saw contact.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 2nd, 2010
8:42 pm
Man, if Teague can get that floater going with confidence, we will have Tony Parker 2.0.
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
8:43 pm
Joe Smith STILL doesn’t have his legs. I understood it earlier this year, but dude is still leaving his shots way short. And speaking of the percentage of shots that are blocked, Teague may be close to 40%… his stuff is routinely swatted. I admire his willingness to return the favor (especially on fast breaks), but I thought he was supposed to have all of these fancy shots once he gets in the lane.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
8:43 pm
See teague is driving. Something Bibby doesn’t do
JB
February 2nd, 2010
8:45 pm
I think Teauge is just a typical athletic guard whose game got overrated in college. He can’t pull that over-aggressive driving in the NBA.
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
8:45 pm
AJ,
Those fancy shots worked in college, but he has to make the adjustment to the NBA game. I think he just needs time.
Cosign Najeh,
If Teague can ever start hitting the floater (and the jumper) more consistently, I can’t imagine Woody not giving him more minutes.
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
8:46 pm
I wonder if ZaZa could jump over his shoe lace…..
terrell
February 2nd, 2010
8:46 pm
I swear Joe Smith hasn’t made that shot all year.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
8:47 pm
Josh player of the game so far
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
8:51 pm
Joe has been to the line 4 times already in the 1st half. Who would have thunked it!
Now Josh needs to hit his free throws.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
8:52 pm
Nice Nimbers off the bench LOL
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
8:53 pm
OMG they played who let the dogs out lol
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
8:54 pm
Can the hawks guard a 3pt shooter for once
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
8:57 pm
Josh easy going to take it to Jeff Green tonight after he go showed up by Green on MLK day…
JB
February 2nd, 2010
8:58 pm
Nice Josh!
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
8:59 pm
Yes Josh. Keep driving. No jumpers
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
8:59 pm
Smoove really doing his thing tonight.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:00 pm
Damn Marvin sucks
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
9:00 pm
AL has to make those shots.
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
9:00 pm
*Josh is going
Jody
February 2nd, 2010
9:01 pm
Lol. Who says Josh can’t score on a small forward.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:02 pm
Marvin needs to be taking notes tonight.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:03 pm
Only if Marvin played like Durantula
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
9:03 pm
Mo is a foul magnet. Bring in the attack dog Mario..
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
9:03 pm
They average 30 a night because they go to the free throw line a lot!
Ree Roe
February 2nd, 2010
9:04 pm
Everybody’s favorite sub comes in & immediately commits a foul. WOW Mario West is soooooo impressive! SMH
-REEcently Roe!
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:05 pm
Josh Smith’s egregious post game sure looks good tonight. Where’s JeJe?
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:06 pm
Horford should be doing MUCh better than 1-5 against this pedestrian set of bigs. If he doesn’t get it going in the 3rd, then I don’t think anyone should complain if he doesn’t get many touches in the 4th. Josh, on the other hand, is having a GREAT game.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:07 pm
I liked what I saw from Teague on his third and fourth shot attempts. Both were shot with confidence, unlike the first two. And he was pretty decent on defense.
I’m not gonna bash the kid for getting his shots blocked. Happens to a lot of guys who have the guts to venture into the lane at 6′1″, until they get into a groove where they know how to get that shot off. Besides, our sooper dooper pg shooter is not working so well right now.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:09 pm
Big Ray Josh is not really posting up he’s driving to the basket which I like.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:09 pm
EXCELLENT move by Joe Johnson. That’s precisely what he needs to do, and it gets him to the line.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:12 pm
Now Bibby sucks at D but that wasn’t a foul
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
9:13 pm
Super Mario!!!!!!
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
9:13 pm
Mario jump off a trampoline to dunk that one…
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:15 pm
Too much whistle in that 2nd quarter. The game gets way too slow when the refs are calling the game like that.
Durant’s a special player. Really smooth. Gets to the line at will. We saw it the 1st time these teams met in January, and we’re seeing again tonight.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:16 pm
BONE,
True. I don’t care which it is, as long as it’s something towards one of his strengths, and it’s working. I just like to pick fun at people who say he can’t play and has a bad post game. Last I looked, he was a wing player playing PF. He’s never had a post game of any particular type. But hey, what do I know?
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
9:18 pm
Hawks have to come out with super dupper monstrous defence in the 2nd to win this one. But they have to defend without fouling, though refs are helping Thunder stay in the game. Durant has shot about twelve free throws so far, and made every one of them. Some of those calls are quite debatable. In fact, I don’t think the entire Thunder team has missed a free throw yet.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:19 pm
Nice floater by Bibby a few minutes back. Wonder if he felt inspired by the one Teague did earlier, in traffic?
Not too shabby on the defensive end, Durant is being himself, and getting to the line.
Offensively, we’re missing shots left and right. Bibby, Marvin, Al….that’s three starters going a total of 3 for 12. Ewwwww…
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:21 pm
When did Horford hurt his thumb? The Houston game, right? Maybe Horford needs to sit out the ASG… he has been rather ordinary since that thumb injury. And the only reason I used the word “ordinary” is because I like Horford A LOT. A more objective observer could get away with saying that Horford has sucked since the Houston game.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:23 pm
I honestly don’t get why we don’t use more lineups featuring both Teague and Bibby in the game simultaneously. Maybe Teague at the point, Bibby at the 2, and JJ at the 3. Similar to what the Bulls do with Rose/Hinrich. Have JJ at the 3, Smoove at the 4, and Horford at C. I’d like to see that.
What if Woody actually went with that kind of lineup to start the game and then rotated Crawford/Marvin in off the bench? I think that’d look much better. Thoughts?
And I know this discussion seems meaningless because it’s not likely to see Teague getting a start.
JOSH SMITH ALLSTAR?
February 2nd, 2010
9:23 pm
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/02/02/pierce.foot/index.html
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:24 pm
Wabe, that is a super small backcourt that you are suggesting. Both Rose and Hinrich play bigger than their size. I’m not sure what you are trying to solve with that kind of line-up… but we would get killed in the paint and on the boards with that line-up (IMO).
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
9:25 pm
only 5 assists…
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
9:26 pm
Marvin Williams, 14 minutes, 2 pts, 4 rebs. At least he brought his defense. Durant only has 20 pts despite playing 19 minutes.
Wabe,
Teague and Bibby in the game together? I dont think they would be a good offensive match or a good defensive match.
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:26 pm
Yeah, Ray… I’m sure Bibby wakes up after having all kind of nightmares about Teague taking his job sometime soon. That’s funny. Maybe Bibby will slam home an offensive rebound in the 3rd quarter after seeing how Mario makes it happen.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:26 pm
Wabe,
You already know the answer. Rose is a supreme athlete with an incredible combo of strength and speed who likes to go to the basket, and finishes damn well. Hinrich is a 6′3″ guard who can defend the pg or sg spot, and has some offensive game. He has no issues going to the basket either.
Bibby is not likely to go anywhere near the basket more than a couple of times per game, lacks the athleticism or the defense of either of the Chicago guards, and isn’t even hitting outside shots right now.
Teague is a rookie that doesn’t get much PT. No comparison, even if you love Woody and hate Teague….
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:27 pm
Vava, I agree. I was hoping that Marvin could score around 14 tonight… that would force Durant to use some energy on defense. Oh well, we’ll have to win another way. Plus, Marvin and Josh almost never go for 15+ each in the same game and Josh is playing like an All-Star tonight.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:28 pm
Astro Joe ,
Wow. A little thick with the sarcastic exaggeration this evening? Lay off the cognac…
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
9:29 pm
we need to find a solution for Durant and that solution is to attack him and tire him on defense (not that he tries too much)…
only that way we can get a little bounce off his legs and maybe, just maybe, we can also avoid fouling him so much (or getting called for “fouls”)…
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:31 pm
Finally MArvin does something
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:31 pm
By the way, I’m sure glad you weren’t going to say Horford has sucked since the game against Houston. I just can’t imagine you typing something like that.
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
9:33 pm
vava,
Agreed. We need to make Durant work on defense. But that only happens when JJ is at SF, because once again Marvin is giving us nothing (I sound like Rod from CP lol).
Ray,
I was thinking that Horford has not looked the same since the hand injury…
Boston
February 2nd, 2010
9:33 pm
As long as dear Woodrow is around Mr. Teague doesnt have to worry about taking Mr. Mike Bibbys job. As long as Mr. Bibby can bring his walker to the game he will get to start.
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:33 pm
Ray… I have purchased one piece of Hawks gear with a name on it in 10 years… Horford. It hurts my feelings to watch him look so average against such an average set of bigs.
FOOTS WALKER
February 2nd, 2010
9:35 pm
LONG LIVE ISO KING JAMES! CAVS ROCK!
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
9:37 pm
Bring in Jamal for Bibby!
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:37 pm
Joe overdribbling
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
9:38 pm
Durant has a sweet stroke, but so does Marvin.
anyways, I think the Hawks need to double Durant (which is exactly what Stinger said at halftime). Make him give up the ball.
pinoy hawk
February 2nd, 2010
9:38 pm
@vava – that’s why we need a PG in the game to facilitate the offense and ball movement. and please woody let your PGs run the plays not just a simple hand off the bball to the SG upon crossing the halfcourt line
northcyde
February 2nd, 2010
9:38 pm
No comments about JJ’s 14 point performance in the 1st half?
Typical of this fan base. JJ and Smoove came to play tonight. We may need big numbers from both of them to win the game.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:39 pm
MAn get Bibby out the game. He’s making our defense bad
JB
February 2nd, 2010
9:39 pm
So would Pierce’s injury put Josh in the ASG?
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:41 pm
Please take Mike Bibby out of this game. The Thunder have gotten multiple buckets in these 1st couple of minutes of this half as a result of Bibby’s lapses/inability to rotate. He isn’t doing much offensively either – throwing the ball away on this past possession.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:42 pm
Bibby is the worst player in the Game
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:42 pm
Thunder are running away with it as we continue to shoot badly and try matching our turnovers up with our assists.
Meanwhile, Nenad Krstic is having the time of his life until that latest block by Horford.
JeJe
February 2nd, 2010
9:43 pm
This game is further proof the Hawks are a soft team.
STOP BEING THE QUIET SOFT GUYS WHO BASE EVERYTHING OFF ATHLETICISM. PUT DURANT ON THE FREAKING GROUND. COMMIT A HARD FOUL. CHRIST
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:43 pm
Yet he’s still in the game.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:44 pm
Like I said Durantula will shred the Hawks
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:44 pm
Can we have Westbrook as a PG.
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
9:44 pm
Josh should have given that ball up early.
JB
February 2nd, 2010
9:45 pm
Durantula is making the Blazers look really really bad
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:45 pm
If Woody is such a good coach why can’t he see that Bibby is terrible.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:45 pm
I guess JJ’s 18 points mean more to some people than the fact that we are getting the brakes beat off us by the Thunder. Go figure….
By the way, JJ is playing a very good game. I like the one play earlier in the third quarter when he comes off a screen for an open midrange jumper after some good ball movement by the Hawks. Nah, shoulda just let him ISO into a double team. What were they thinking out there?
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:45 pm
Crawford should’ve been in this game the last timeout. I don’t know what Woody’s thinking keeping Bibby in the game.
What frustrates me is we’ve got Jamal Crawford on the bench, yet we wait so long to get him into the game even when we seem to be struggling to get buckets. He was bought here to get buckets, put him in the game and get him to do what he’s been brought here to do.
jean
February 2nd, 2010
9:46 pm
i wanna strangle woodson for not bring crawford in at 7 min mark while bibby get torched by anyone with a pulse….moron
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
9:46 pm
Joe keeping the Hawks alive.. by himself.
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
9:46 pm
We’re done! No energy on defense, poor execution on offense.
We lack maturity and identity.
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
9:47 pm
Hawks are playing the Thunder game. They need better defense and offense out of the 1 and 3 spot…. Give the ball to Joe and hope he make a play is not offense…
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:48 pm
We’re gonna lose this game. The Hawks just look like they have no energy.
Sam from da Swats
February 2nd, 2010
9:49 pm
Durant killing Marvin..
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
9:50 pm
kill em Joe… and shut your haters up in the process…
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:50 pm
Dribble, dribble, dribble…
oh he made the basket.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:50 pm
Domination. The HAwks are getting dunked on now.
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
9:50 pm
Sam,
Agreed. However, Durant kills everybody.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:51 pm
Did we just get dunked on hard by their pg? I wanna turn the tv off and go cry in a corner.
Nice moves by Josh and Joe. I love to see Joe take open shots.
Sam from da Swats
February 2nd, 2010
9:51 pm
OKC is getting every call out here…man Joe is killing these dudes.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:51 pm
JJ’s hot. Let’s hope he can pull us back into this game and then maybe Crawford can put us over the top.
JJ with another 3 as I type.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:51 pm
Think JJ’s got it in him? He’s literally got this team on his back right now.
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
9:52 pm
That’s what I said! Joe pass the ball, he gets it back for a wide open look.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:52 pm
Thankfully JJ is making shots
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
9:52 pm
JJ is single-handedly keeping us in the game. I just wish we could get him more open/easy shots. Run him off screens, pick and roll, something…
Lets hope Crawford can get it going in the 4th. Because JJ will need some help.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:53 pm
Good God Joe is smokin’. Won’t be enough if we don’t get stops and he doesn’t get help from elsewhere, though.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:53 pm
Heat check
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
9:53 pm
dizzamn…
Sam from da Swats
February 2nd, 2010
9:53 pm
Thanks Nique good point..can we run a play to get Joe the ball off the pick.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:53 pm
The duel between KD and JJ is a sight to see indeed, but we need to find ways to actually win this game. Get some stops for one thing.
How about turning the tide on the rebounding battle? We’re getting beaten on the boards on BOTH ends. That is a huge problem.
A big part of that? Durant has 10 rebounds, leading his team by a wide margin. WTF is Marvin Williams doing out there??!! I can understand not being able to stop an elite scorer, but that skinny-ass has 10 rebounds!
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
9:54 pm
Well you can bet that Woody is going to ride Joe the entire 4th qtr…
J.J.M.
February 2nd, 2010
9:54 pm
i forgot the hawks was playing i been watching lost
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
9:55 pm
bad possession…
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:56 pm
Again, struggling to get buckets.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:58 pm
I just noticed something whenever Marvin gets the ball he looks to pass it. Take it to the rim MArvin.
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
9:58 pm
Clear offensive foul
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
9:59 pm
Hawks dont want this game…
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:59 pm
Sometimes I wonder if this team really wants to win games. They just don’t look like they care sometimes.
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
10:00 pm
that was a charge…
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:00 pm
Thunder are getting all the calls.
Meanwhile, Smith has to learn to follow his shots. With quick ups like he has, he can get a putback if he misses.
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
10:00 pm
what the hell was that?
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:02 pm
One of those nights where fans are left wondering where the points are gonna come from? Down nearly double-digits and the only guy whose been making buckets is JJ. Others have to look for their shot when the opportunity presents itself.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:03 pm
Westbrook is a heck of a young pg. Nothing like watching a kid who likes to drive run free, even if he misses 8 of 12 shots.
dhawk
February 2nd, 2010
10:03 pm
If Joe stops shooting, we will lose by 25 points.
northcyde
February 2nd, 2010
10:04 pm
Since starting the game 2 – 6 FG, JJ had made 8 shots in a row, before that last 3 point miss. 28 pts for JJ going into the 4th.
If it wasn’t for your captain, we’d be down 13 going into the 4th, instead of 7.
And he’s having ANOTHER HUGE GAME ON THE ROAD.
Instead of bytching about your captain dribbling and not passing the ball, tell everybody else to step up, and especially PLAY SOME DANG DEFENSE.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:04 pm
Bibby with a “redeemer”….can he hit more than just that one?
jean
February 2nd, 2010
10:04 pm
its amazing as soon as crawford has the ball good things happen joe is a bum
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:05 pm
Keep making me sound stupid Bibby.
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
10:06 pm
Marvin has to step up his defense and rebounding. It would help if he wasn’t 2-7 in 27 minutes.
Say what you want about Chemistry, but at $7.5 mil, the Hawks need more out of him.
And when does a double team from Bibby work?
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
10:06 pm
Glad Joe is on fire
iREPATL
February 2nd, 2010
10:07 pm
lettttttttsssssss gooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:08 pm
Geez, you’d think there hasn’t already been a dozen posts talking about how good JJ is doing this game according to some people….
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:09 pm
Joe is still smokin’ like crazy. And on the defensive end, the ENTIRE Hawks team is still not playing defense.
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
10:09 pm
but there’s never enough if he’s having a bad game…?
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:09 pm
Damn, JJ putting on a show……….
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:10 pm
Joe’s gonna get 40 tonight, and Bibby hits a second “redeemer.”
Yeah, before somebody says it, Teague doesn’t hit shots like that. Glad to see Mike coming back to the land of the living.
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
10:11 pm
ZaZa has been terrible this year….
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:12 pm
LETS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
10:12 pm
yessir…
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:12 pm
JJ stole Durant’s spotlight.
jean
February 2nd, 2010
10:13 pm
joe johnson on fire his +/- is 1 crawford is 10 while he haveing a quiet day i wonder why
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
10:13 pm
Interesting that Woody decided to keep ZaZa in the game after the timeout…
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
10:14 pm
Crawford with his arms down watching another rebound.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:14 pm
Seriously, 3 Hawks right there and not one of them could snag that board. Can’t get lazy with 4:40 left in a one possession game.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:14 pm
AAAAGGHHH! Why are we letting them beat us to every rebound? We’re letting their pg beat us all over the glass, he has more rebounds than any of our guys!
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
10:14 pm
That’s why I would never give up on Bibby, man. In spite of his slights, when Bibby is hot, Bibby is hot!
I love Joe’s game tonight because he is not holding the ball but going quick.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 2nd, 2010
10:15 pm
Wasn’t this a good defensive team last year?
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
10:15 pm
the whole Thunder team is about to run at Joe… guys are going to have to step up and make shots…
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
February 2nd, 2010
10:16 pm
OKC showing more effort on those boards..
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
10:16 pm
Offensive rebounds is what is keeping OKC in this game.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:17 pm
Durant vs JJ coming down the stretch.
jean
February 2nd, 2010
10:17 pm
joe johnson black hole
Sam from da Swats
February 2nd, 2010
10:17 pm
Man is Durant going to get every damn call out here?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
10:17 pm
Joe’s career high is only 42?
We need to get him a 50 pt game as a Hawk. Heck, Crawford has 50 pt games for 3 different teams.
Durant is a star. What was Portland thinking taking Oden over Durant? Can you imagine Durant and Roy on the same team?
DecDawg
February 2nd, 2010
10:17 pm
dave, considering the rest of the team hasn’t taken any shots in the second half, you’re asking a lot for them to make shots now.
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
10:17 pm
Ballgame!
J.J.M.
February 2nd, 2010
10:18 pm
2nd chance shots
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:18 pm
Their pg with more boards than any of our guys. Disgusting.
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
10:18 pm
there you go Al…
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
10:18 pm
These Refs are terrible. That was clearly a shot clock violation
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
10:18 pm
bsss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
J.J.M.
February 2nd, 2010
10:19 pm
joe is tired
jean
February 2nd, 2010
10:19 pm
johnson bum
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
10:19 pm
no respect! point blank period,
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
10:19 pm
Get these Refs out of here…
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
10:19 pm
Man, the only call JJ gets is when they call a foul on him.
What is up with that? These refs are horrible.
DecDawg
February 2nd, 2010
10:19 pm
horrible call…
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:21 pm
JJ’s better off without that pick at the top from Al.
J.J.M.
February 2nd, 2010
10:21 pm
refs are horrible
Sam from da Swats
February 2nd, 2010
10:21 pm
This is amazing that Joe Johnson is paid like a superstar but can’t get superstar calls.
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
10:21 pm
lol.. at the refs…
and to think for some of you Joe needs to fake a heart attack to get a foul call…
Jody
February 2nd, 2010
10:21 pm
Haywood Workman always works the Hawks over. His officiating is HORRIBLE.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
February 2nd, 2010
10:21 pm
Typical Hawks (on the road especially) = lackadaisical play, then after diggin a hole…finally show energy but kinda panic. What they should do is play with a steady dose of energy and effort for a full game.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 2nd, 2010
10:22 pm
Whine about calls all you want — and the Hawks do have a legitimate gripe after those last couple of possessions — but you can’t give up 17 offensive rebounds and expect to win a game.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
10:22 pm
Well get ready to add the Thunder to the teams that OWN the Hawks:
Thunder
Spurs
Magic
Knicks
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:23 pm
Seriously. 2 losses to the Thunder? Don’t get me wrong, they’re a good team, but aren’t we supposed to be going places this season? This will be back to back losses to a Thunder team that’s fighting for their playoff lives in the Western Conference.
Disappointing.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
10:23 pm
Enter your comments hereadd the Thunder to the teams that OWN the Hawks:
Thunder
Spurs
Magic
Knicks
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:23 pm
Dammit Hawks
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:23 pm
JJ did his thing. I’d say Smoove showed up tonight as well. Bibby and Al had their moments. Whose the lone starter that essentially gave the Hawks nothing again tonight both from an offensive and defensive perspective?
Najeh Davenpoop
February 2nd, 2010
10:23 pm
If you are going to double, the guy you leave has to get picked up by someone else who can keep them from cutting to the hoop. It’s just a lack of defensive communication, which has been an ongoing problem for the Hawks this year.
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
10:25 pm
Joe ran out of bullets. Cant blame him when the Hawks depend so heavenly on him for offense… Where are those guys who think we have enough scorers?
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
10:25 pm
Add the Thunder to the teams that OWN the Hawks:
Thunder
Spurs
Magic
Knicks
jean
February 2nd, 2010
10:26 pm
the only thing thats horrible is joe he chokes even when he has his best games amazing
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
10:26 pm
List of teams that OWN the Hawks:
Thunder
Spurs
Magic
Knicks
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
10:26 pm
Maybe JJ is tired. He gave an awesome effort tonight, but nobody else helped him out.
And defense is about effort. The Hawks gave up too many offensive rebounds. And the refs did not help us out either.
bigdave
February 2nd, 2010
10:26 pm
before that last Al bucket nobody other than Joe had more that single digit attempts… couldnt find another consistent scoring option…
Melvin agreed… especially at the 3…
iREPATL
February 2nd, 2010
10:27 pm
…………………joe is that dude but the rest of our team minus josh and biggy cuz of the clutch 3, looked horrible imo…even “”tears”" jamal……smh
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
10:27 pm
Scott Brooks for COY?
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
10:27 pm
.List of teams that OWN the Hawks:
Thunder
Spurs
Magic
Knicks
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
10:27 pm
very poor effort on the boards… it’s almost impossible to win a match when you are out rebounded by 10
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
10:28 pm
List of teams that OWN the Hawks:
Thunder
Spurs
Magic
Knicks
So sad
jean
February 2nd, 2010
10:28 pm
o brien lmao how can some1 help him out if he dont pass em the ball…he play every postion like its the end of the quarter jus holds the ball
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
10:29 pm
It’s sad when Joe scores 37 and Hawks still lose. Where is his sidekick? I’ve been critical of Joe hogging the ball, but he was awesome tonight.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
February 2nd, 2010
10:30 pm
This year’s Hawks = for the most part last year’s hawks. Horrible coaching, Good enough talent and athleticism to be one of the better teams (in the east),and way too many holes to be considered elite.
We’re still garbage on the road, and probably will have to go to 7 games to beat Chicago, Charlotte , Miami or whatever mediocre/slightly above mediocre team with have to play in the first round.
Something has to change…Woodson’s coaching philosophy or personnel…..maybe both???
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:32 pm
Hawks lost this game by getting beat on the boards each time they played defense well enough to stop the opposing offense. During other instances, their defense broke down altogether, starting at the perimeter.
That’s right: STARTING AT THE PERIMETER.
Hate to see such a good game by Joe Johnson wasted. Al and Josh tried to help out at the end, but it was too late. Josh only got two shot attempts in the entire second half that I can recall. Al was stinking it up, thus the lack of attempts, but then poured in a few when given the chance. Nobody else was helping.
Marvin Williams? Who?
Mike Bibby gives you two sides. One is the side that can hit big shots despite being cold from the floor. The other side? Can’t match the opposing team’s point guard, much less stop him when it counts.
For the Thunder, Green and Westbrook stepped up to help Durant out. Where was Joe’s help? I guess ISO Jamal wasn’t on for the evening. I guess there are some things that even ISO Paradise can’t overcome.
In the end, Hawks lost this game by not playing enough defense when they needed to, and by getting beaten like a dirty rug on the glass. A pitiful effort in that department, and I’m disgusted by it.
Just Saying
February 2nd, 2010
10:34 pm
I hope the “baby” Thunder grow up more mature than our Hawks did. What a joke!
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:34 pm
But hey, at least the boo birds have something to crow about. So many fans are in love with the losses…
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:34 pm
Hawks starters tonight:
PG Mike Bibby – 12 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds
SG JJ – 37 points, 3 assists
SF Marvin Williams – 4 points, 6 boards
PF J.Smith – 15 points, 6 boards
C Al Horford – 14 points, 5 boards
Seriously, 4 points and 6 boards in 27 minutes?
WE NEED A 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
10:34 pm
and the refs where… well… the usual…
any good defense on Durant was rewarded with a foul call… any good defense to get a charging call was rewarded with the opposite (there was one called on Josh that… well, words are a waste)
Even the local OKC guys from foxsports west were saying that JJ was a four time all star but Durant being only a first time all star was already getting super star calls…
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:34 pm
It wasn’t our offense. We shot 48% from the field, had nearly 5 guys in double figures, with one of them nearly getting 40.
Defense didn’t come through, and we acted like they were bigger, stronger, and meaner than us. Two out of three just aren’t true against that team on any given night. The third one got us right in the arse. Sucky efforts on the boards. Absolutely sucky.
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
10:37 pm
jean,
Other guys had shot attempts, but they weren’t scoring enough. We needed every shot from Joe. Can’t fault him for anything tonight. 37 pt, 3 assists, plus he played better defense on Durant than Marvin.
Hawks gave up too many (17) offensive rebounds. Unacceptable. And once again, refs were horrible.
vava,
We need more from Marvin.
Scott Brooks for COY.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
10:39 pm
Refs were bad, but even if the Thunder went to the line for the exact number of times we did, the score would still be tied at best. That’s right, we lost by 7, the exact number of free throw attempts MORE that the Thunder had, than we had.
I’m not buying the ref stuff. We could have won that game anyway. We sucked on defensive and rebounding effort. SUCKED
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
10:39 pm
Hawks have to get more than 16 boards from our frontcourt aginst a team like this. I would have hoped for more than 16 from Josh and Al alone. OKC plays a very Eastern Conference style of ball. Really good defense with an emphasis on half-court sets. Of course, it helps when Durant can shoot over virtually every defender.
Good to see Bibby make some shots tonight. And whoever mentioned Zaza is dead on… dude is no where near as effective as he was last season. I don;t know if it is because Al is getting more minutes or what, but he blows many defensive rotations and fails to make open jumpers.
Have we had refs who were this bad in our favor recently? Joe should have broke his Jordans off on one or two of those refs tonight.
Sid
February 2nd, 2010
10:41 pm
We had about 80 possessions tonight and I would say Joe dominated the ball on over 40 of those possessions. There was no room for anyone else to step up not when you are bringing the ball up and shooting or the PG brings it up hands it to you with 17 seconds on the clock and you hold the ball for 15 seconds looking to shoot.
But the key to this game is the same thing that happened in the majority of our losses . The starters come out to start the game or the 3rd and dont match the intensity of the opposing teams.
When selfolosha played handball on that one possession in the 3rd Woody should have called timeout and sat the entire starting 5 down.This lack of effort from the starters is getting old
kwooden1
February 2nd, 2010
10:45 pm
I only listened to the game on the radio, but this was probably the most frustrating game I’ve heard all year!! I watched the last game against OKC and stated that OKC plays the game the way it is supposed to be played. I was hoping that the HAWKS learned something from that game and really started to understand how they have to play the game. The HAWKS must get stops and get out and run. This game they didn’t get stops and when they did, they didn’t consistently get the rebounds! Westbrook had more rebounds than anyone on the HAWKS!! ANYONE!!! Again I didn’t see the game so I really can’t put the blame on anyone particular, but I know as a team they didn’t take care of their defensive boards. 16 assists just doesn’t cut it!! I think John Stockton averaged that for his career!! Woody’s lack of an offensive comes into play again, but I’ve come to the realization that it’s never coming. This team has to get stops and get out and RUN!! They didn’t do it enough this game and we can all see the results. They have to get this through their heads! Play good defensive, rebound the ball, push the ball and find the open man!!!
GO HAWKS!!!
dub366
February 2nd, 2010
10:48 pm
name Larry Drew the head coach. Need to fire WOODY
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
10:50 pm
Some of you didn’t notice that Joe didn’t shoot the ball in the first 3-4 possessions of the 4th quarter. Smith scored in thepost, I think Horford was stripped in the post and I think Crawford may have taken a shot. But other than Smith (and later Bibby), Joe was the only consistent scoring threat tonight. At one point, Joe was 13-17. When a guy is 13-17, he is SUPPOSED TO DOMINATE THE BALL. To ask someone else to shoot is to ignore the guy who is on fire. That’s dumb.
Westbrook shot horribly but came up with 9 boards and 9 assists.
I like that Thunder team. They drafted well and are well coached. And the players have bought into a defense-first philosophy. A very nice young team. And where do we get a Serge Ibaka? I want one of those.
kwooden1
February 2nd, 2010
10:50 pm
I was wrong Stockton, averaged 10.5! more than half what our team had tonight.
UGA
February 2nd, 2010
10:50 pm
Clips, Bulls, Wizards, Grizzlies, Miami— I think we finish 4-1 or 3-2 right here before the break. We lose to Memphis, the game in question will be at Washington.
I really like Marvin, but I’m starting to have some doubts now. Plus, if we’re not going to play him then do we need to look at a trade to upgrade the SF spot……….
kwooden1
February 2nd, 2010
10:52 pm
Astro I would take Ibaka over Zaza any day. I like Zaza, but Ibaka is more athletic and a better enforcer in the paint.
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
10:53 pm
kwooden, when they tried toplay good defense, Durant would either shoot over them or the refs would blow the whistle. The game was lost on the glass (IMO). Plain and simple. We’d play good defense and then give up an easy offensive rebound. Hard to win on the road against a quality opponent when you can’t secure the ball and run the fast break. I thought the defense was above average tonight… we just couldn’t collect the missed shots. And some guy name Serge gave them 8/4/2 in 15 minutes. Imagine 8 points, 4 boards and 2 blocks in 15 minutes from one of our back-up big men. HA!
cp
February 2nd, 2010
10:54 pm
Once again we got killed on the boards but hey at least we signed Mario for the rest of the season. He was clearly a piece we had been missing. SMH whatever…. Marvin with another invisible man game. We need to upgrade the sf position. Its clear that Marvin is just not that guy. Like I said yesterday, if he isn’t going to score he could at least crash the glass and play good d but he isn’t even doing that. The only thing he has been good at this year is wrapping all those towels around his neck when he is sitting on the bench.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:54 pm
Co-sign on Serge Ibaka AstroJoe.
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
10:56 pm
Ibaka is built like Solo, except it took Solo 3 games to produce 8/4/2… because he averaged around 6 fouls per 5 minutes of court time.
BTW, how’s he doing in Indy? Ouch, 35 total minutes in his last 10 games. Whew, at least he’s getting more PT than Acie.
Ken Strickland
February 2nd, 2010
10:57 pm
Although there are some Hawk fans who will remain in denial on this issue, but the Hawks have serious coaching issues, PG issues, which is directly related to and created by the coaching issues, and serious OFF issues, which is the direct result of our HC not giving a damn about the OFF. WE’VE COMPLETELY STOPPED RUNNING AND HAVE BECOME ALMOST TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON JUMPSHOOTING AND ISO JOE. IN OTHER WORDS, WE’RE BACK TO PLAYING WOODY BALL. We have what can be best described as a total disaster for a halfcourt OFF.
They were able to wear us down because we played only 7 players more than 8 mins while they played 9 players more than 11mins. However, many WOODY LOVERS will still use the old tried and true to defend him. They will say, WE STILL HAVE 30 WINS AND ONLY 17 LOSSES, and counting. They will continue to bury their collective heads in the sand, pretend everything is fine, while ignoring the fact we’ve lost 11 of our last 22gms, 3 or our last 4, fallen to 2nd place in our division and 4th place in the Eastern conference behind Boston.
BOTTOMLINE, WE’RE GETTING WORSE AS THE SEASON PROGRESSES WHILE MOST OF THE OTHER TEAMS WE’RE COMPETING WITH IN THE EAST ARE GETTING BETTER.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
10:57 pm
And no doubt that this game was lost on the glass. Coming down the stretch, we had gotten a couple of stops but we let Russell Westbrook come down and snag offensive boards on back to back possessions. Those 2 boards alone killed the Hawks chances to pull this one out.
Ken Strickland
February 2nd, 2010
11:03 pm
We got beaten on the OFF boards because of Woody’s beloved switching DEF. Far too often our best rebounders ended up on the perimeter trying to defend their PG’s and SG’s, which left our guards to defend and try to out rebound their Bigs. DUMB ASS COACHING.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
11:06 pm
I wouldn’t say that the C’s are getting better Ken Strickland. I wouldn’t say the Magic are getting much better either.
I think you’re seeing the same Hawks team that you’ve seen from day 1. The lone difference is now, teams are aware of Hawks weaknesses and exploiting them. Our lack of a prescence at the 3 is disturbing. Our lack of a PG who can command the offense really gets us into trouble in some games. I’ll give you that on some nights, the Hawks just plain don’t show up. But, on most nights, you’ll see the Hawks play Hawks ball – but it’s just an ineffective style of play. Teams like the Magic or the Spurs have had success stopping what the Hawks do because they’ve made it difficult for the Hawks primary offensive options to get it going and other guys don’t step up. Defensively, we’ve struggled to stop opposing PG’s, and on some nights, switching has really gotten us into trouble. I think that this team can get better as we move later into the season, but we’ve got to get some guys up to speed. As some of you have mentioned, Zaza hasn’t given us the production we saw out of him in previous years. Hopefully, he can pick it up as the season progresses. I also think it’s vital to get JT0 up to speed and into the rotation consistently. We’ve got to maximize the talent that we have, and that means developing young talent throughout the season so that they can play a meaningful role as we come down the stretch.
Overall, the Hawks are 30-17. Back to back losses suck, but all you can do is bounce back strong tomorrow night against the Clippers. We’re still right in the thick of things in terms of Eastern Conference standings, but what are this teams goals? I’d say we’re a solid peice away from true contention, but is this team willing to strive for greatness, or will they settle for good enough?
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
11:07 pm
Strickland, you’re right. We should fire Woody now and just blow-off the rest of this season. Start the rebuilding tomorrow against the Clippers. Bench Bibby and start Teague. Who cares if we don’t win more than another 15 games this season. Let’s start the rebuilding process NOW. Don’t wait another day.
Sid
February 2nd, 2010
11:08 pm
Astro Joe – that philosophy is exactly why we will be out in the first rd .
Being hot is not about shooting every time you touch it its about knowing when to pass and making the right decisions
Joe started out the 4th quarter turning the ball over after finishing the last three and half of the third quarter taking all the shots excepts ONE.
WE WERE LOSING despite all of that . What started the comeback ? It was Crawford finding Zaza
and Bibby and then we got it to within 4 and then it was back to Joe doing his thing and then we tied the game when Joe gave up the ball early in the shot clock to Bibby.
Crawford and Joe had the same percentage before Joe came back in in the second quarter . 3-5 Joe had 6 points Crawford had 7 points ….. he got 3 more shots the entire game
Throughout this game when we gave someone else a chance to score by moving the ball we either got a great shot and missed or scored a basket with an assist.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
11:08 pm
And when I said that our style of play is ineffective, I meant that it’s ineffective against certain teams (i.e. Magic/Spurs).
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
11:09 pm
Of course, let’s ignore that if the switching D left our bigs on their PG… and their PG had 5 offensive boards, that the coach is to blame. Let’s ignore that piece of data.
Start the rebuilding NOW. This season is a horrific failure. We’re an NBA embarrassment. Don’t wait another day. Rebuild. NOWWWWWWWWWWW!
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
11:13 pm
Sid, in a perfect world, a player would only score 30+ points if he were assisted often. But that is not the way it always works. If a team/coach goes away from what is working, how is that a good decision? Our failure at the end of the game was more about making stops and less about scoring the ball. 99 points on the road should be more than enough to bring home a win… if you’re handling your business on the glass.
kwooden1
February 2nd, 2010
11:17 pm
Astro you’re over reacting after one poor performance. Remember they only lost by 7 and had several chances to take the lead in the 4th. This team can still be special, but they have to decide to play their game. All 5 guys must rebound the ball!! They won’t be able to run on everyone, but they have to realize they’re not running for fast-break points, they’re running for secondary break points. I believe they can do that against any team, but they have to believe it will work!
rms
February 2nd, 2010
11:19 pm
you’re being sarcastic Astro, right???
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
11:19 pm
Comeon Strickland, say it with me…
RE-BUILD. START NOW! RE-BUILD! START NOW (I can’t hear you). RE-BUILD! START NOW!
iREPATL
February 2nd, 2010
11:22 pm
astro, u buggin, we only need a 5 @ 3 . rebuild my ass
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
11:24 pm
kwooden, I’m just busting Strickland’s chops. Like I have said before, the pace to win around 55 games means that the Hawks will lose around 3 of every 10 games. And some fans just act insane when we actually lose those 3 games. The Thunder are a quality team playing in front of great fans. And they have a true superstar. We’ve lost 2 of the last 3… now it’s time to string together a streak of 5-6 games. It’s all good.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 2nd, 2010
11:25 pm
If the Hawks keep rebounding the way they are now, either the Clippers or Grizzlies will beat them, if not both.
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
11:25 pm
rms, me sarcastic? I can barely spell the word.
Geemack
February 2nd, 2010
11:30 pm
Ken
Are you suggesting we fire Woody, and start fresh.
jj
February 2nd, 2010
11:33 pm
Ken,you talking to the wind.If Sund and the Boyzs are satisfied or just blind to reality,it don’t matter that this Team is on a downturn.It’s sad because a season that has so much posibility,will more than likely end in dissapointment.I wish Sund had the balls or authority to make the CHANGE that is required.
Geemack
February 2nd, 2010
11:34 pm
On this blog Woody can’t win for losing.
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
11:38 pm
GeeMack, on this blog, Woody can’t win when winning.
shannon
February 2nd, 2010
11:45 pm
I hope the Hawks have Marvin Williams on the trading block.. He is the teams weak link
Geemack
February 2nd, 2010
11:47 pm
Astro
You right about that.
Geemack
February 2nd, 2010
11:50 pm
shannon
On this blog you blame Woody for everything. That’s the only logic for losing a game around here….blame Woody.
Rod from College Park
February 2nd, 2010
11:53 pm
Wabe,
“JJ did his thing. I’d say Smoove showed up tonight as well. Bibby and Al had their moments. Whose the lone starter that essentially gave the Hawks nothing again tonight both from an offensive and defensive perspective?”
Would the answer be MARVIN WILLIAMS? Over our last 3 games against playoff caliber teams he has scored 4points, 7 points and 4 points. No offensive production while allowing Pierce to go for 35 and Durant to go for 33 both over their season averages. But the very knowledgeable ASTRO JOE and TRACEMAN will tell me I am crazy for saying Marvin is not a good defender. OK GUYS.
Astro Joe
“Rod, I think it is clear that you are the only one (or close to it) who thinks that Marvin is “not even an average defender at his position”.
Really!!!! Check the responses above.
Traceman,
“As for Marvin’s D, he does a good job. He has not been quite as good this year as he was last year but he has still been solid.”
He has huh. LOL. You guys are some comedians.
DecDawg
February 2nd, 2010
11:55 pm
Well…the Bulls had to get rid of Collins to get Phil Jackson and go to the next level. It’s not like they were losing with Collins but they understood someone else was needed to push that team to a championship level.
Maybe Woody is our Collins…
JeJe
February 3rd, 2010
12:22 am
THIS IS A SOFT BASKETBALL TEAM
NO ONE COMMITS A HARD FOUL ON DURANT? WHERE IS THE INTENSITY/THE PASSION
MARVIN 4 POINTS? ARE YOU SERIOUS? BIBBY LOSE SOME DAMN WEIGHT YOU FAT HUNK OF LARD. JESUS. I HAVE NEVER SEEN SOMEONE REGRESS SO BADLY.
HORFORD, ARE YOU GONNA LET KRSTIC GET EVERY REBOUND? ALL STAR MY ASS. ZAZA COULD’VE REBOUNDED BETTER THAN YOU
WE JUST GOT SWEPT BY A TEAM FROM FREAKING OKLAHOMA CITY. WHERE THE HELL IS THAT
okc_bornNraised
February 3rd, 2010
12:29 am
Obviously Oklahoma City is in Oklahoma…. idiot.
Dante Fitzgerald
February 3rd, 2010
12:39 am
FIRE MIKE WOODSON!!!
northcyde
February 3rd, 2010
12:55 am
I love how Ken S. always tries to come up with the absoute worst possible stretch of games record wise, to try to prove his point about how the Hawks aren’t this or that.
Earlier in the year, the Hawks had their first taste of adversity, losing 4 out of 6 games. Of course, Ken was screaming to the hills about the same thing he’s talking about now.
Even though we were a 13 – 6 ballclub after 19 games, all he wanted to focus on, was the 4 out of 6 game losing streak.
LOL . . . but now, he’s going back 22 games in which we’ve played .500 ball, to try to prove his point.
Of course, if you go back 29 games, I believe our record is 18 – 11.
As for the game, we lost because we gave up 17 offensive rebounds. If it weren’t for JJ, we wouldn’t even been close enough to steal the game at the end.
And for all of the people bagging on Marvin ( in which they should ), he was tied for the lead in rebounding . . . with 6.
Now the question is . . where was the effort on the defensive boards from Smoove and Horford? Those guys can’t afford to take nights off on the boards. They have to battle every game.
slick
February 3rd, 2010
1:22 am
OKC fan here.. thought you guys should have gone more to Josh Smith isolation against Jeff Green. By my count, Smith had four successful plays against Green (two ‘and 1’s) and one that would have been successful but Nenad Krstic stripped him at the basket. Joe Johnson was unbelievable tonight for you, but I don’t think he had any points in the last six minutes after Thabo Sefolosha came back in. Smith vs. Green was your guy’s best matchup down the stretch..
Ken Strickland
February 3rd, 2010
1:34 am
It seems when someone makes a valid, but unflattering statement about Woodson, some people get overly sensitive and start putting words in the mouth(s) of the one(s) making the valid point. PLEASE REPRINT ANY STATEMENT MADE BY ME THAT SAID ANYTHING ABOUT FIRING WOODSON BEFORE THE END OF THE SEASON? IN FACT, IN AN EARLIER POST I MADE A POINT OF SAYING IT WOULD BE UNFAIR TO THE TEAM AND THE PERSON REPLACING HIM TO MAKE A CHANGE BEFORE THE SEASON ENDED. However, acknoledging that fact would prevent you from venting your misplaced anger and burying your heads even deeper in the sand when it comes to Woodson.
WABE-if Boston isn’t improving they certainly will be. You see, their major issue can be traced to a series of serious injuries to key players. That hasn’t been the case with us. We’re now 30-17 after 47 gms, and last yr at this point, we were 27-20. Considering we have the same starting 5 as last yr, no injuries compared to last yr at this time, plus we’ve added more size, speed, experience, versatility and depth to our bench, wouldn’t you expect us to be further ahead of last yrs pace? Plus, neither Boston, Orlando or Cleveland are playing at last yrs pace.
Woodson’s hangups, overall coaching and limited OFF/DEF systems have started to take its toll and create inconsistency, which is starting to drag this team down. The inconsistency this team suffers seems to correspond with the inconsistent play of PG MBibby. When the team is sluggish and/or shooting poorly, he does absolutely nothing to energize the OFF, other than turn control of the ball and the OFF over to JJ and then float around the perimeter.
JJ is as big and as strong, if not bigger and stronger, than most players who try to defend him. Plus, when he has the ball, penetrating and getting into the lane is always his first option. As long as JJ’s been with the Hawks, Woodson has yet to figure out it would be better, as well as save time, to post him in the paint. What’s the advantage of having him pound the ball on the perimeter and going ISO and one on 5?
If he’s posted, he could, (1)draw double teams, (2)pass out of the double team so the ball can swing to the open shooter.
Hell, we need a HC that actually gives a damn about OFF and isn’t obcessed with playing MBibby extended mins.
vava74
February 3rd, 2010
7:06 am
My take on yesterday after sleeping over it:
1. Woody had it wrong when he did not adjust to the opponent again: when we are giving up too many offensive rebounds to OKC we should have stop switching and clamp down the rebounding.
2. Although JJ had a terrific game, it is not that frequent that when a player capitalizes the offense the team gets the win. We should have gone to Josh and Al even if that meant taking the risk of losing the game.
Players who are involved on the offense tend to work harder on defense and on rebounding.
3. The refs killed us. Simple examples? Charging foul by Westbrook on Josh converted in 2+1, Sefolosha hitting
vava74
February 3rd, 2010
7:18 am
Sefolosha hitting JJ’s arms when he was dribbling several times resulting in turnovers and on the other side, JJ’s defense on Durant resulted in fouls being called.
vava74
February 3rd, 2010
7:31 am
I think we need to shake up the line up.
I continue to thing that my suggestion of yesterday, made on the Hawks’ Nest should be tried:
Start Mo at the SG slot (his natural position and where he does not give up size). He is sufficiently good when plays significant minutes but is a poor performer with limited minutes. Also, this would not give up too much ground on defense.
Put JJ on the SF slot where he can play point forward with Bibby and Mo lurking around the 3 point line.
Crawford in for Bibby as soon as Bibby shows that either he is not shooting well or is giving too much ground on defense.
If Bibby is working well, Crawford can get in for Mo. Bibby should be limited to 22/28 minutes to keep him fresh and used as a steadying element and 4th quarter sniper.
Feature Marvin as the second team’s offensive focus – playing 20/22 minutes – against lesser opponents in order to see if he gets out of his slumber.
Get Teague to play around 16/20 minutes to close the 1st quarter and start the 2nd and to finish the 3rd and start the 4th.
Play Collins instead of Zaza in order to see if his bulk helps closing down the lane and get more rebounds.
Put Zaza in a suit for a couple of weeks watching video montages of russian soldiers invading Georgia wearing D12 jerseys.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
8:06 am
Remember how everyone was praising Sund a while back? The trade for Crawford was an excellent move, I agree. But tying up nearly 12 mill a year for Zaza and Marvin, was a horrible move. Just horrible. Morris can give us as much production as Zaza can. And ANYBODY can take over for Marvin, and we wont miss a beat. Still dont know why we just didn’t let him play out his 1 year deal, before giving him a new contract??.
terrell
February 3rd, 2010
8:06 am
Pacers trying to move Troy Murphy. How bout Marvin and Zaza for Murphy and a player?
ltdbrave
February 3rd, 2010
8:18 am
I agree with terrell. Why Sund signed ZaZa and Williams is beyond me. Contribution to the team is minimal at best. Marvin is not a pro basketball player of any caliber nor is ZaZa. With ZaZa’s height, he should be clogging the lane and gathering in rebounds. Trade both of them and get someone who can and wants to play the game.
papason100
February 3rd, 2010
9:04 am
It boils down to this, Marvin,Bibby and ZAZA got paid and have no more need to play because it isnt a contract year. More incentive based contracts need to be used so players cant give a halfa@# effort..
ltdbrave
February 3rd, 2010
9:27 am
Amen papason100
Ken Strickland
February 3rd, 2010
3:16 pm
VALVA74-your 7:06am and 7:31am posts are dead on, and explain perfectly why Woodson isn’t the right HC for this team at this juncture of the teams development. He immediately snatches Teague out of gms and punishes him, by playing him very limited mins thereafter if at all, if he makes a mistake. If he has a good gm, Woodson refuses to reward his good effort by giving him adequate followup mins, and will often not play him at all.
Then we have the beloved MBibby, who can do no wrong in Woodson’s eyes, and the eyes of some of our more delusional fans. They have their cache’ of weak excuses for wanting to keep giving him extended mins and keeping Teague firmly routed to the bench. LIKE:
(1) The OFF runs much smoother when Bibby’s in the gm. THEN WHY ARE WE SEEING SO MUCH DAMNED ISO JOE AND ISO CRAWFORD, LONG PERIORDS OF SCORELESSNESS DOWN THE STRETCH AND LIMITED BALL MOVEMENT?
(2) He protects the ball and has few turnovers. WHY WOULDN’T HE HAVE FEW TURNOVERS, SINCE HE DOESN’T PENETRATE, SPENDS MOST OF HIS TIME ROAMING THE TOP OF THE KEY, AND TURNS CONTROL OF THE BALL AND THE OFF OVER TO JJ AND CRAWFORD MORE THAN HALF THE TIME.
(3) He makes key baskets. HE’S BEEN SO DOGGONE INCONSISTENT THIS YR HE’S HAD TROUBLE MAKING BASKETS PERIOD, LET ALONE KEY BASKETS.
THESE ARE THE ISSUES I HAVE WITH BIBBY STARTING OR PLAYING SO MANY MINS OVER TEAGUE.
(1) A quality PG makes certain the ball and the OFF continues to flow whenever he’s on the floor. BIBBY DOESN’T DO THAT.
(2) When the OFF is stagnant, and/or the outside shots aren’t falling, a quality PG redirects the OFF focus and goes inside by either penetrating and dishing or calling plays that will post up his Bigs inside. WE’VE SEEN BIBBY REFUSE TO DO ANY OF THAT, EVEN WITH WOODSON YELLING FOR IT TO BE DONE FROM THE SIDELINES.
(3) A quality PG applies pressure on the ball, or at least tries to do so. NO COMMENT NEEDED HERE, OR WHENEVER DEF IS MENTIONED IN REGARDS TO BIBBY.
(4) Whenever the team is sluggish, a quality PG does something to energize the team and get it going. WE’RE STILL WAITING FOR THAT TO HAPPEN WITH BIBBY. HELL, USUALLY IT’S BIBBY THAT NEEDS TO BE ENERGIZED.
Remember how often Hawk fans have talked about what this team would be like if we had drafted CPaul or DWilliams? There have even been recent discussion about us trying to trade for CPaul. Yet, these are some of the same delusional fans who insist on running MBibby, the complete antithesis of both CPaul and DWilliams, out on the floor for extended mins while getting limited results. They claim Teague isn’t ready, and then act like it’s his fault instead of Woodson’s. I firmly believe if we gave Teague the mins Bibby’s getting we’d not only get more overall production, especially on DEF, he’d become much more confident and improved, which would benefit the overall team in the longrun.
Over the last 22gms, in which we’ve won 11 of 22, Bibby has averaged 26.5MPG, 8.3PPG and 4.3APG. We have got to get better OFF production from our starting PG. That’s especially important when you considering he provides virtually no DEF, doesn’t breakdown DEF by penetrating, doesn’t consistently create easy scoring opportunities for others, doesn’t facilitate consistent ball movement, doesn’t consistently include all players in the OFF, and doesn’t consistently maintain control of the ball or the OFF.
Bibby can’t be blamed for all of this, since he’s limited in some areas by his physical limitations. But, to keep playing him extended mins inspite of these issues is on Woodson. He also continues to play Marvin even though he’s not producing on OFF, although he does provide good DEF. Woodson needs to wake up and recognize the need for some changes and adjustments.
Start Teague and let him know he’ll play most if not all of the 1st qtr, unless he gets into foul trouble, and do the same for the 3rd qtr. Start MEvans at SF and bring Marvin off the bench. Marvin, Bibby, Zaza, JSmith and Crawford would be a solid 2nd unit. Of course it won’t mean much as long as Woodson continues to insist on using his traditional 7-8 man rotation. AT LEAST HE NO LONGER COMPLAINS AND USES THE LACK OF DEPTH, EXPERIENCE, VERSATILITY AND EXPERIENCE AS EXCUSES FOR NOT USING HIS BENCH. HE JUST STANDS ON THE SIDELINES BARKING PROFANITY LACED CRAP AT THE OFFICIALS, WHILE CONTINUING TO IGNORE HIS BENCH.