Hawks at Thunder, AKA Could You Help a Beat Writer Out?
The debate over Iso-Joe got me to thinking, and that’s always dangerous. Wouldn’t it be cool to have some numbers that shed some light on the effectiveness of Iso-Joe?
So it’s my hope going forward to track the results of fourth quarter Iso-Joe situations, defined as any play where it appears the primary aim is for J.J. to take his man one-on-one in a set halfcourt. The possible results are a made shot, missed shot with defensive rebound, missed shot with offensive rebound, turnover, assist, foul with no free throw or foul that leads to a free throw, all by either J.J. or a teammate (holla if there is a possible result I’m missing).
Some of you stat types might know a better resource than me, but the best fourth-quarter numbers I could find are these ‘08-’09 breakdowns at 82games.com. They are interesting but they don’t say anything about this season, nor do they break it down by play type or possessions. So I think tracking this myself is the best way to go about it.
But I need your help tracking Iso-Joes for two reasons. One is transparency–I wouldn’t want you to think I’m juking the stats. Another is expediency-sometimes I’ve got a lot of things going on during games and maybe I miss an Iso-Joe here or there. If I post my Iso-Joe numbers and lots of you have something different, we can work that out, agree on the numbers and move on.
My goal is to have a quantitative way to evaluate Iso-Joe by the end of the regular season (that’s 36 more games counting tonight). Maybe no meaningful conclusions come out of it. It could be that we end up with a weak sample size. The inability to compare Iso-Joe numbers going forward to games already played is a drawback. It also might be more illustrative to compare the results of Iso-Joe to the other play types the Hawks run in the fourth quarter but, to be honest, I think that might just be too ambitious and time-consuming for me on deadline. But if any of you want to give it a shot, I’m down.
At the very least the numbers we come up with can be part of the Iso-Joe conversation. Even if that amounts to pointing out all the ways they aren’t useful, that’s something, right? Because then we are talking about what else should be considered and doing our best to analyze Iso-Joe. Anyway, let me know if you think I’m onto something and if you are willing to help me out.
– I’m not on the road with the team, so I’ll be watching it on television like most of you. It’s not the best situation, but is what it is, you know? I’m still going to do the best postgame blog I can even though it’s better to get locker room perspectives.
– Talk amongst yourselves, Hawks fans.
MC
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
265 comments Add your comment
Ree Roe
February 2nd, 2010
9:04 pm
Everybody’s favorite sub comes in & immediately commits a foul. WOW Mario West is soooooo impressive! SMH
-REEcently Roe!
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:05 pm
Josh Smith’s egregious post game sure looks good tonight. Where’s JeJe?
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:06 pm
Horford should be doing MUCh better than 1-5 against this pedestrian set of bigs. If he doesn’t get it going in the 3rd, then I don’t think anyone should complain if he doesn’t get many touches in the 4th. Josh, on the other hand, is having a GREAT game.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:07 pm
I liked what I saw from Teague on his third and fourth shot attempts. Both were shot with confidence, unlike the first two. And he was pretty decent on defense.
I’m not gonna bash the kid for getting his shots blocked. Happens to a lot of guys who have the guts to venture into the lane at 6′1″, until they get into a groove where they know how to get that shot off. Besides, our sooper dooper pg shooter is not working so well right now.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:09 pm
Big Ray Josh is not really posting up he’s driving to the basket which I like.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:09 pm
EXCELLENT move by Joe Johnson. That’s precisely what he needs to do, and it gets him to the line.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:12 pm
Now Bibby sucks at D but that wasn’t a foul
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
9:13 pm
Super Mario!!!!!!
Melvin
February 2nd, 2010
9:13 pm
Mario jump off a trampoline to dunk that one…
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:15 pm
Too much whistle in that 2nd quarter. The game gets way too slow when the refs are calling the game like that.
Durant’s a special player. Really smooth. Gets to the line at will. We saw it the 1st time these teams met in January, and we’re seeing again tonight.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:16 pm
BONE,
True. I don’t care which it is, as long as it’s something towards one of his strengths, and it’s working. I just like to pick fun at people who say he can’t play and has a bad post game. Last I looked, he was a wing player playing PF. He’s never had a post game of any particular type. But hey, what do I know?
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
9:18 pm
Hawks have to come out with super dupper monstrous defence in the 2nd to win this one. But they have to defend without fouling, though refs are helping Thunder stay in the game. Durant has shot about twelve free throws so far, and made every one of them. Some of those calls are quite debatable. In fact, I don’t think the entire Thunder team has missed a free throw yet.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:19 pm
Nice floater by Bibby a few minutes back. Wonder if he felt inspired by the one Teague did earlier, in traffic?
Not too shabby on the defensive end, Durant is being himself, and getting to the line.
Offensively, we’re missing shots left and right. Bibby, Marvin, Al….that’s three starters going a total of 3 for 12. Ewwwww…
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:21 pm
When did Horford hurt his thumb? The Houston game, right? Maybe Horford needs to sit out the ASG… he has been rather ordinary since that thumb injury. And the only reason I used the word “ordinary” is because I like Horford A LOT. A more objective observer could get away with saying that Horford has sucked since the Houston game.
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:23 pm
I honestly don’t get why we don’t use more lineups featuring both Teague and Bibby in the game simultaneously. Maybe Teague at the point, Bibby at the 2, and JJ at the 3. Similar to what the Bulls do with Rose/Hinrich. Have JJ at the 3, Smoove at the 4, and Horford at C. I’d like to see that.
What if Woody actually went with that kind of lineup to start the game and then rotated Crawford/Marvin in off the bench? I think that’d look much better. Thoughts?
And I know this discussion seems meaningless because it’s not likely to see Teague getting a start.
JOSH SMITH ALLSTAR?
February 2nd, 2010
9:23 pm
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/02/02/pierce.foot/index.html
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:24 pm
Wabe, that is a super small backcourt that you are suggesting. Both Rose and Hinrich play bigger than their size. I’m not sure what you are trying to solve with that kind of line-up… but we would get killed in the paint and on the boards with that line-up (IMO).
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
9:25 pm
only 5 assists…
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
9:26 pm
Marvin Williams, 14 minutes, 2 pts, 4 rebs. At least he brought his defense. Durant only has 20 pts despite playing 19 minutes.
Wabe,
Teague and Bibby in the game together? I dont think they would be a good offensive match or a good defensive match.
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:26 pm
Yeah, Ray… I’m sure Bibby wakes up after having all kind of nightmares about Teague taking his job sometime soon. That’s funny. Maybe Bibby will slam home an offensive rebound in the 3rd quarter after seeing how Mario makes it happen.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:26 pm
Wabe,
You already know the answer. Rose is a supreme athlete with an incredible combo of strength and speed who likes to go to the basket, and finishes damn well. Hinrich is a 6′3″ guard who can defend the pg or sg spot, and has some offensive game. He has no issues going to the basket either.
Bibby is not likely to go anywhere near the basket more than a couple of times per game, lacks the athleticism or the defense of either of the Chicago guards, and isn’t even hitting outside shots right now.
Teague is a rookie that doesn’t get much PT. No comparison, even if you love Woody and hate Teague….
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:27 pm
Vava, I agree. I was hoping that Marvin could score around 14 tonight… that would force Durant to use some energy on defense. Oh well, we’ll have to win another way. Plus, Marvin and Josh almost never go for 15+ each in the same game and Josh is playing like an All-Star tonight.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:28 pm
Astro Joe ,
Wow. A little thick with the sarcastic exaggeration this evening? Lay off the cognac…
vava74
February 2nd, 2010
9:29 pm
we need to find a solution for Durant and that solution is to attack him and tire him on defense (not that he tries too much)…
only that way we can get a little bounce off his legs and maybe, just maybe, we can also avoid fouling him so much (or getting called for “fouls”)…
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:31 pm
Finally MArvin does something
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:31 pm
By the way, I’m sure glad you weren’t going to say Horford has sucked since the game against Houston. I just can’t imagine you typing something like that.
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
9:33 pm
vava,
Agreed. We need to make Durant work on defense. But that only happens when JJ is at SF, because once again Marvin is giving us nothing (I sound like Rod from CP lol).
Ray,
I was thinking that Horford has not looked the same since the hand injury…
Boston
February 2nd, 2010
9:33 pm
As long as dear Woodrow is around Mr. Teague doesnt have to worry about taking Mr. Mike Bibbys job. As long as Mr. Bibby can bring his walker to the game he will get to start.
Astro Joe
February 2nd, 2010
9:33 pm
Ray… I have purchased one piece of Hawks gear with a name on it in 10 years… Horford. It hurts my feelings to watch him look so average against such an average set of bigs.
FOOTS WALKER
February 2nd, 2010
9:35 pm
LONG LIVE ISO KING JAMES! CAVS ROCK!
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
9:37 pm
Bring in Jamal for Bibby!
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:37 pm
Joe overdribbling
O'Brien
February 2nd, 2010
9:38 pm
Durant has a sweet stroke, but so does Marvin.
anyways, I think the Hawks need to double Durant (which is exactly what Stinger said at halftime). Make him give up the ball.
pinoy hawk
February 2nd, 2010
9:38 pm
@vava – that’s why we need a PG in the game to facilitate the offense and ball movement. and please woody let your PGs run the plays not just a simple hand off the bball to the SG upon crossing the halfcourt line
northcyde
February 2nd, 2010
9:38 pm
No comments about JJ’s 14 point performance in the 1st half?
Typical of this fan base. JJ and Smoove came to play tonight. We may need big numbers from both of them to win the game.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:39 pm
MAn get Bibby out the game. He’s making our defense bad
JB
February 2nd, 2010
9:39 pm
So would Pierce’s injury put Josh in the ASG?
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:41 pm
Please take Mike Bibby out of this game. The Thunder have gotten multiple buckets in these 1st couple of minutes of this half as a result of Bibby’s lapses/inability to rotate. He isn’t doing much offensively either – throwing the ball away on this past possession.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:42 pm
Bibby is the worst player in the Game
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:42 pm
Thunder are running away with it as we continue to shoot badly and try matching our turnovers up with our assists.
Meanwhile, Nenad Krstic is having the time of his life until that latest block by Horford.
JeJe
February 2nd, 2010
9:43 pm
This game is further proof the Hawks are a soft team.
STOP BEING THE QUIET SOFT GUYS WHO BASE EVERYTHING OFF ATHLETICISM. PUT DURANT ON THE FREAKING GROUND. COMMIT A HARD FOUL. CHRIST
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:43 pm
Yet he’s still in the game.
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:44 pm
Like I said Durantula will shred the Hawks
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:44 pm
Can we have Westbrook as a PG.
Blast
February 2nd, 2010
9:44 pm
Josh should have given that ball up early.
JB
February 2nd, 2010
9:45 pm
Durantula is making the Blazers look really really bad
BONE
February 2nd, 2010
9:45 pm
If Woody is such a good coach why can’t he see that Bibby is terrible.
Big Ray
February 2nd, 2010
9:45 pm
I guess JJ’s 18 points mean more to some people than the fact that we are getting the brakes beat off us by the Thunder. Go figure….
By the way, JJ is playing a very good game. I like the one play earlier in the third quarter when he comes off a screen for an open midrange jumper after some good ball movement by the Hawks. Nah, shoulda just let him ISO into a double team. What were they thinking out there?
Wabe
February 2nd, 2010
9:45 pm
Crawford should’ve been in this game the last timeout. I don’t know what Woody’s thinking keeping Bibby in the game.
What frustrates me is we’ve got Jamal Crawford on the bench, yet we wait so long to get him into the game even when we seem to be struggling to get buckets. He was bought here to get buckets, put him in the game and get him to do what he’s been brought here to do.
jean
February 2nd, 2010
9:46 pm
i wanna strangle woodson for not bring crawford in at 7 min mark while bibby get torched by anyone with a pulse….moron