Why Iso-Joe Can Be OK
Iso-Joe in action (NBA.com)
After covering the Hawks for a couple weeks, I can see why Iso-Joe late in games makes some of you mad. It slows the Hawks’ pace. It’s not pleasing to the eye when Johnson dominates the ball while his teammates stand and watch, makes a move to the basket and then misses. When Iso-Joe doesn’t work, it can look so bad. That’s got to be frustrating for you fans.
But what about when it does work? What you saw against the Celtics is the beauty of Iso-Joe when he’s going good (and please don’t forget that’s much more often than not). He made seven shots in the fourth quarter against the Celtics. None of them were assisted.
“They isolated us all game,” Paul Pierce said. “They’ve done that all four games, and they’ve beaten us all four games.”
To Celtics coach Doc Rivers, that’s no coincidence. When it’s not Iso-Joe, it’s Iso-Jamal, and he said that’s what will make the Hawks a dangerous team to face in the playoffs.
“Those two guys when they get the ball in one-on-one, if I’m Woody, I don’t mind that matchup whoever is guarding them,” Rivers said. “That’s what makes them great to me as a playoff team, because in the playoffs your first and second option has been taken away if you’ve done any scouting. Then it’s got to come down to guys making plays, and they have guys that can make plays. That makes them really good.”
From Woody’s perspective (and that of any coach, really), the goal late in games is to get the ball to your best playmaker(s) in positions where he/they can make plays. So then what’s the point of running plays with the intention of getting J.J. the ball in a good spot when the Hawks can just let him work over his defender in isolation? J.J. is one of the best in the league in that situation, after all.
If Johnson draws a double team, then Woody wants him to share the ball. But Woody notes that not many opponents are doubling Johnson late in games. That’s because when the Hawks spread the floor for Iso-Joe, it’s risky for a defender to leave his man to double J.J. at the top. So when Johnson is singled up with a defender in isolation, Woody is fine with him working to get his shot.
“He has to,” Woody said.
As for Johnson dominating the ball until late into the shot clock, Woody said he’s OK with that when the Hawks are in control and need to run clock. The drawback to that approach is if Johnson can’t get into position for a good look, then he passes off to Smoove late in the shot clock, leading to one of his awkward jumpers. Or someone else has to take a rushed jumper. But, think about it, everyone other than Smoove who would be on the floor with Johnson in those situations is capable of making at least a midrange jumper : Bibby, Marvin, Al, Mo and Jamal. It’s how the Hawks are built.
And while I know the gripe for some of you isn’t that the Hawks run Iso-Joe, but that they don’t mix it up late in games, consider what happened on that last play against the Suns. The Hawks tried to rub Johnson off a screen but the Suns jumped the play. That led to Crawford launching a 3-pointer for the W.
“What can they do (against isolation)?” Crawford said of opponents. “If you run a pick-and-roll they can trap you. If you try to run off a screen you might not get what you want.”
So the next time Iso-Joe goes bad and makes you mad, try to remember that opponents might hate seeing it even more than you.
MC
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74 comments Add your comment
Iblameurparents
February 1st, 2010
11:48 am
Another point, ball movement for the sake of ball movement is a shot clock violation. What the Hawks lack is movement without the ball. Woodson has to do a better job of creating movement within the offense. There are only 2-3 guy on this team that can get their own shot. Marvin has developed into a spotty spot up shooter at best with limited comfort in taking more than 3 dribbles on drives. JJ, JC and Bibby are the only true jump shooters on the team.
We struggle against Orlando because they have 4-5 true outside threats with an anchor in Dwight. Add to that the fact that they have length as well makes for a bad match up. Like boxing styles makes fights. Unless we can get Horford to pull Howard away from the basket with short range jumpers the magic will remain a daunting task to say the least.
GeeMack
February 1st, 2010
11:48 am
Grandad
The thing you pointed out are valid. Here is my question on any basketball play there are 3 to 4 options on any play. Instead the coach having to tell a player to “dive” to the basket. That’s automatic option for guys without the ball. Moving without the ball is basic that shouldn’t be a coaches call. That should be automatic. Just my opinion.
jean
February 1st, 2010
11:54 am
iso jamal is alot more effective n work quicker and he passes the ball when he makes a move n help come joe wait till 4 seconds to pass
JeJe
February 1st, 2010
11:57 am
Nice article.
The key is for Marvin and JOsh to actually show up offensively.
If Marvin could DRIVE the lane, HOLD ONTO THE BALL, and FINISH, the guy would be averaging 18 or 19 on his low FGA amount per game. However, he is a horrific penetrator. He loses the ball every time for no reason — half the time he is not even being covered.
In addition, Josh has an egregious post game. He plays as if he has forgotten everything Hakeem has taught him. He is always off-balance and takes horrendous hook shots
Sautee
February 1st, 2010
12:04 pm
Ray,
It’s clear when one reads between the lines that you are a Joe Johnson hater.
Wabe
February 1st, 2010
12:24 pm
I’m actually buying what Rod’s saying about Marvin. I actually don’t mind having Marvin come off the bench, but not for the money he’s seeing at the moment. I do agree with Rod’s premise of needing to upgrade at the 3. The Marvin/Mo Evans combo is honestly dreadful. Marvin’s defense is ok at best, but he’s not a lockdown defender. His body might provide some versatility when matching up with the Lebron’s, Durant’s, or Melo’s in the league. You know, he could provide an body to throw in front of the likes of these people. But, outside of that, I honestly don’t see his role being fulfilled. He’s not aggressive enough getting to the rack – usually settling for that awful hook shot that rarely falls for him.
As Big Ray said, who honestly sees Marvin as a core player within this group? If you do, then we’re obviously not on the same page. To those who are losing patience in waiting for this guy to live up to the “potential” will always be disappointed. I don’t see it.
Just think about it, if Marvin was where everybody hoped he’d be at this point in his career (if he actually lived up to the hype), would we all be in such a frantic state if JJ were to leave this upcoming offseason? If JJ were to leave, THERE WILL BE A SIGNIFICANT DROPOFF IN TERMS OF PRODUCTION – - are you comfortable with Marvin’s ability to pick-up the slack?
Michael Cunningham
February 1st, 2010
12:26 pm
good debates here, fellas. lots of sound reasoning. thank you. i like it.
look, all i was trying to do was give you perspectives from Woody, Doc, Jamal and suggest that Iso-Joe does have its merits. this does not mean i am in the tank for Iso-Joe. i see its weaknesses, but this thang right here was a take on its strengths. rest assured when it does not work, i will say so.
and of course all of this must be put in the context of the Hawks standing at 30-16 entering February. so does that mean that with less Iso-Joe they’d be closer to Cleveland’s 38-11? if Iso-Joe works in the playoffs, which Doc seems to think it will, wouldn’t that be cool with you?
Astro Joe
February 1st, 2010
12:27 pm
New blog up. Mario West signed for the remainder of the season.
I MUS WRITE
February 1st, 2010
12:29 pm
Iso Joe works when he is one on one mostly,but when he is double teamed out of the Iso and decides to force shots instead of swing the ball thats when things get bad…..
Agreed Jean- jamal is alot better at gettn in the lane and either finishing or hitting the open man -JJ ehhh ????
Marvin Gaye Williams – Come on son -is he still a topic of discussion,he shouldnt be unless his name is involved in a trade. Im willing to bet a weeks pay that marvin gets his shot blocked the most for guys6′9 and above. Where has his shot gone, seriously he has’nt been as effective as last year. Sounds like a job for the POLICE…..find that shot
Wabe
February 1st, 2010
12:35 pm
And JeJe, here’s the difference between Marvin and Smoove. Sure, Smoove may lack basic fundamentals and footwork to be a successful offensive peice to this team. But, with that said, he’s much further at this point in his career than Marvin is in his career. There’s no comparison there. Not many match Smoove’s intensity on the defensive end. Without Smoove, the Hawks aren’t where they are today. The Hawks are at their best when Smoove’s flying around on defense which triggers the Hawks run-game. Offensively, Smoove’s footwork/fundamentals may be a bit off at this point, but he doesn’t get the credit he deserves. How many Hawks games have you watched complaining about ISO-JJ/JAMAL with little ball movement? This season, when the ball is in Smoove’s hands, you know he’s either gonna be aggressive and take the ball inside or find one of the gaurds outside. He’ll occasionally settle for the jumper, but he’s gotten much better this season picking his spots.
I don’t get how so many of you can be disappointed with a guy’s ability when you’ve got most of the NBA talking about him being SNUBBED from this years all-star team. Common now, the guy stuffs the stat-sheet. Points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks – Smoove gets his. Smoove is the key to this team, not JJ/JAMAL.
vava74
February 1st, 2010
12:37 pm
Without making any roster moves (which are highly unlikely) I would start Mo at the SG slot and JJ at the SF slot in order to “shake things up”.
Mo is more effective playing in the back court and when he gets more minutes than coming off the bench for limited.
Then I would get Crawford in early to play the PG position and limit Bibby’s minutes to around 22mpg, with Teague still getting around 16 distributed later in the game 2nd and 3rd quarters mainly.
Grandad
February 1st, 2010
12:43 pm
GeeMack:
Glad to have your ear for a moment. Hope you caught my post several
days/wks. ago in resonse to you about my Paul Silas remark, where I failed to mention him “only as an interim” replacement for Wdsn.
Water under the bridge.
You are correct, in that , players should do some things naturally.
However, in ‘Iso-Joe’, he needs the middle open. Can’t really ‘dive’.
Spacing is imperitive.
The problem as I see it is, Wdsn has no system/philosophy to hang his hat on.
The players (many of whom, poor background/coaching,AAU,no fundamentals)
are sheets in the wind. *We used to hang them on a clothes line![sheets]
So they just spot up and hang out.
Sautee:
I can’t speak for Big Ray but I really like Joe.
We cannot replace his skill set.
However, if he is gonna bolt…we need to utilize him as an asset.
I think we could get more value in a trade than we could buy with the cash we save from his salary.
Coming soon: Bold trade idea!
I’m certain Mr. Sund is also thinking outside the box.
Wabe
February 1st, 2010
1:00 pm
I know I’m probably gonna get grilled for this, because many here will probably argue that he’s not ready. But, I honestly wouldn’t mind seeing JT0 get some starter-type minutes some nights. Hell, I wouldn’t mind seeing the kid get the start on some nights. Seriously, 4-5 minutes isn’t going to do anything for this kid. He needs live gameaction to pickup on his mistakes and correct them. With Bibby on the decline, I don’t see why we can’t let Teague get some go. Wouldn’t mind seeing him go with the 1st unit. He’s not as good a shooter as Bibby, but he gets into the lane effortlessly.
The kid reminds me of Rajon Rondo when he’s penetrating the lanes looking to set others up. I’d say he’s a better shooter at this point than Rondo as well. He still needs to learn how to finish at the rack, but those are things he’ll pick up on as time goes on. Boston didn’t hesitate to start Rondo when he got into the league. They pretty much threw him out there the year they won it all, and he didn’t disappoint.
Please, give Teague some burn.
Wabe
February 1st, 2010
1:03 pm
And don’t get me wrong, I understand that he’s playing for a team that’s actually got something to play for. But, that shouldn’t mean he can’t see some serious minutes in some of these games. I wouldn’t want Woody to make a decision that will jeapordize the efforts of this team to get a W, but, I don’t think it’ll come to that giving Teague more minutes. Woody should pick his spots, and let the kid go. Seriously, give him 15-20 solid minutes on the floor without chewing the guy out for a mental lapse that most of the other guys on the floor experience occasionally as well without being taken out.
terrell
February 1st, 2010
2:10 pm
Stop crying about Joe not getting the calls. He shys away from contact. Wade, Lebron, etc.. initiates it.
terrell
February 1st, 2010
2:13 pm
Wabe, who else was Boston goping to throw out there? Gabe Pruitt? They had to start Rondo. I agree that Teague should get more min, but you cant compare our situation to the Celtics championship year.
Sautee
February 1st, 2010
2:36 pm
Michael,
About this: “What you saw against the Celtics is the beauty of Iso-Joe when he’s going good (and please don’t forget that’s much more often than not).”
I’ll take issue with this statement, since JJ’s overall shooting % is only .458.
OBVIOUSLY, he misses more than he makes. So how can you say that he is “going good much more often than not”?
Sautee
February 1st, 2010
2:39 pm
Grandad,
My post to Ray was a comment alluding to previous day’s blog, where nire took ME to task over my criticism of Joe.
Sautee
February 1st, 2010
2:42 pm
One thing I’ve NEVER understood about Iso-Joe:
Joe will have a smaller defender (say Ray Allen) near the free throw line and instead of simply rising up and shooting a 15 footer, he’ll dribble INTO a double team and shoot a highly contested floater. If you are guarded by a smaller defender, as Joe often is, why not just rise up and take the easy shot?
I can’t figure this one out. Any ideas, anyone?
Michael Cunningham
February 1st, 2010
3:10 pm
@ Sautee: “only” .458? that ranks him 8th among shooting guards. and his effective shooting percentage is 48.9 percent: http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL7.HTM
but if your definition of “going good” means making more than you miss, then, dude, only one shooting guard (Ronnie Brewer, who only has 374 FGA), two point guards (Rondo and Nash) and 31 players overall are “going good.” if so, you’re a tough dude to please.
Sautee
February 1st, 2010
4:39 pm
MC.
Semantics. I didn’t argue that compared to the other SG’s he’s going good (or not).
Just the statement that he was going good “more often than not”.
rusty
February 1st, 2010
11:52 pm
jc makes his move,pulls up for his jumper or drives to the hoop with the possibility of making his shot ,getting fouled or passing it to some one for an easy shot. jj dribbles & dribbles eating up the cloak until 2or 3 people converge on him either taking a horrible
forced shot,throwing the ball away or passing ity out to josh with 2 seconds left. he is usually such a steak shooter that you cant really depend on him & he takes the whole
team out of rythem. he also never gets fouled.if any thing i would just like him to get the ball & quickly go up for his shot. we are one.of the worst teams in the league for
good ball movement. i dont think any pg could really help us because jj wants the ball in his hands always
Miss Horford
February 6th, 2010
2:31 pm
Iso Joe does make me mad along with everyone else when it does not work, but he cannot do things by himself…..even if he is the one that always get the ball near the end….the iso part of the phrase, there should still be other players, that know that it may not go in, ready to put it back in or fight for the rebound. He may be iso when he shoots and the play they choose, but he does not have to be alone after he shoots. Deal with the bad shot if it is one….fight more than normal for a rebound and be a Mario and race toward the bucket at every shot to put it back in.
Either the bench is improving, or the Nets are 7-60 « control+ATL+delete
March 17th, 2010
12:53 am
[...] was a 33-point 2nd-quarter, and proved that “Crawfense” can be just as effective as Iso-Joe. As for the Teague-Bibby backcourt, it was clear who the veteran was, and why Woody trusts him more. [...]