Hawks Squawks: Magic 104, Hawks 86
This is a problem for the Hawks. (STEPHEN M. DOWELL, ORLANDO SENTINEL)
– Maybe it’s as simple as the Magic has Dwight Howard and the Celtics don’t. But that’s not very helpful in contemplating the Hawks’ chances should they draw the Magic in the playoffs.
– “This game is all about matchups, and I think we match up well with everyone but them,” J.J. said. “They pretty much have their way with us.”
—- Al’s not big enough to handle Howard. Jason Collins and Zaza aren’t quick enough. Woody’s schemes haven’t been effective enough. “We’ve got to figure it out,” Woody said. “We’ll go back and look at the tapes and see how we can do a better job against him at our place (for the final meeting on March 24). He’s a load down there.”
– “We don’t know what looks to throw at him,” Smoove said. “When we tried trapping him we had success with it, but I think we waited too late in the game to do it.”
– “They just have our number right now,” Al said. “We have to figure them out. We have to do a better job inside in the post, starting with me.”
– As it stands now, I don’t see the answer for the Hawks against the Magic. Neither does J.J.: “I am sure the coaches will come up with something but I don’t know what to do.”
– The trading deadline is approaching. So far all signs suggest the Hawks believe they are set with this group. Wonder if the possibility of Howard lifting the Magic to the division title and then dominating the Hawks should they meet in the postseason changes that thinking.
– Or maybe that would be an overreaction. Magic coach Stan Van Gundy wouldn’t bite when asked if the Magic has the Hawks’ number: “It’s not like a playoff series. I just don’t buy it. They’re coming in on a back-to-back. There’s just a lot of factors.”
– A legitimate footnote: the Magic twice has caught the Hawks on the second game of back-to-backs. That wouldn’t happen in the postseason. “I’m not blaming it on back-to-back games,” Woody said. “We’ve been fairly decent in back-to-back games but it’s just like the energy was sucked out of us in the third quarter.”
– The Hawks felt the officials didn’t help matters. They were called for 25 fouls to 15 for Orlando, and Howard attempted 18 free throws compared to the Hawks’ 20. “It’s tough to beat a great team like Orlando when you can’t get to the line,” Smoove said. “We were aggressive like they were aggressive.”
– Sure, the Hawks didn’t get calls against Howard. But is that ever going to change?
– Some guy named Ryan Anderson scored 16 off the bench for the Magic. Hawks reserves not named Jamal Crawford combined to score 11.
– That shooting foul called on Smoove against Jameer Nelson at the end of the half led to a five-point Magic lead instead of two. “I fouled him earlier (on the floor), and I thought they were going to call it,” Smoove said. “They didn’t, and then I bumped him again and they called it.”
– Woody got a technical after the buzzer. Nelson made the free throw to start the second half. The Hawks got within 57-54 on Mike Bibby’s 3-pointer but Howard had seven points during a 20-9 Magic run to close the period. “They picked it up defensively, and I don’t want to say fatigue set in but we looked very sluggish in the third quarter,” Woody said.
– At least Bibby was back to making open shots. But Jamal (6 of 17) was cold. Before the game, he was wistful about being an All-Star after the Celtics gave him some love.
– No more division lead for the Hawks. They did make it through a week that featured at Houston, at San Antonio vs. Boston and at Orlando at 2-2. “I’ll take it,” Al said. “This was a tough week. We obviously would have liked to have gone 3-1 but it was a good week.”
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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138 comments Add your comment
buick59
January 30th, 2010
11:26 pm
they are a 2nd round disaster anyway so why waste your time on them.
Fundamentals
January 30th, 2010
11:33 pm
Not sure what to say. Second let-down after a big win. To me it’s like they just don’t believe they can do it. They came out strong, Orlando made a run and we shut down. By the end when we cut it to single digits they made a few good stops. We resorted to ill-advised shots and boom 20 pt lead. I just don’t think we believe in ourselves and thus we lose to them every time.
Celtics used to have their way with us. In that 7 game series we finally believed. Now we own the Celts. I think it’s a mental thing here.
Only note I didn’t like was the double teaming Dwight. Play him tough, pound him and live with the results. The double team wasn’t fast enough. When it did come they found their shooters. It’s not worth the effort or risk to double him.
Collins/ ZaZa proved too slow. Maybe Randmo needs a shot in the next meeting.
My 2-2 prediction held true. Even picked the games. The next week has potential to be a great one for the Hawks. Hopefully we’ll return the favor to OKC and get on a roll.
MAD-DONNA
January 30th, 2010
11:44 pm
I keep telling you all, get rid of Woodson, problem solved!
Najeh Davenpoop
January 30th, 2010
11:50 pm
I may be in the minority, but I actually disagree that the Hawks don’t have the personnel to handle Howard. Al Horford was matched on Howard one on one for a stretch in the 3rd quarter, and I think Howard went 2/4 and turned it over twice, which is not great but not terrible. The worst defensive sequences for the Hawks’ defense came when they double teamed Howard. The Magic took advantage every time, swinging the ball faster than the Hawks could rotate and getting open 3s or dunks every time.
I think going forward the best defensive strategy for the Hawks will be to play straight defense on Howard, let him get what he can, and put the clamps on the Magic supporting cast. Players like Rashard Lewis and JJ Redick are the ones you don’t want to get into a rhythm. Howard is a physical freak, but his post moves are limited and he won’t make you pay at the free throw line, so it’s not like single-teaming him will hurt you more than double teaming currently does. And the 3’s from the supporting cast are the real momentum swingers, not the hook shots by Howard.
Of course, if they insist on running iso and not sharing the ball on offense, the defense they use is irrelevant.
Fundamentals
January 31st, 2010
12:01 am
Najeh has it perfect!
The double team kills us on D, which leads to bad tempo on O.
Start Randmo, Al, Josh, Joe, Teague
2nd Unit – ZaZa or Collins, Joe Smith, Marvin, Crawford, Evans/Bibby
I love Rio, but I still say we should’ve gone with 3-4 D-League bigs till the trade deadline comes. Watch the waiver wire and test prospects. After the trade deadline pick up Rio for chemistry, but not until then. He is a useful tool for a team, but not necessarily what we need. We need someone who can defend Dwight better and a PG that can penetrate…wait, we have those, we just don’t use them?
Fundamentals
January 31st, 2010
12:06 am
Mad-Donna,
Don’t you realize they’ll handle Woodson’s situation in the off-season. Some of you folks cursing him after every single loss isn’t going to help anything. Time will tell where this team goes.
ASG and Sund have enough respect for Woodson to allow him to finish his contract. Decency and honor are not often seen in pro sports. He’s come a long way with this team. He’s meeting and exceeding goals and expectations set for him at the outset of the season. He deserves his chance 100%. After that we’ll see what they decide.
Your desire to fire is never followed with a real viable upgrade option. Just rage. Get real! Such a weak, weak post. I’ll scroll next time. What a waste of time.
Joe's place Joe speaking
January 31st, 2010
12:55 am
Any idea what big men could be viable options for us before the trading deadline Michael C.?
Sid
January 31st, 2010
1:04 am
Whats up with the excuse making at some point its about just simply wanting it more and our entire frontline caves when they see Howard .They have yet to even challenge Howard simply as basketball players so to suggest its simply the scheme is crazy. No scheme works when you are afraid of the guy.
The Grizzlies beat the magic and Howard beasted them with 27 and 15 and 6 blocks but they still won because Randolph and his 2 inch vertical and the Grizzlies frontline challenged Howard on the glass . Randolph had 19 boards in that game .
Tonight Howard had 19 boards but no other magic had more than 5 boards and no hawks had more than 6 boards . Al 4 boards-Smoove 6 boards- Marvin 2 boards thats simply unacceptable and while I dont expect Woody to call them out publicly he should be all over them about that behind closed doors .
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
1:19 am
J.P.J.S.:
Brendan Haywood. Good contract [expiring]. *Plenty of size! Available.
Always seems to play well v. D.H.
M.C.:
I hope you were being sarcastic. Ryan Anderson is pretty good.
He came over in the NJ trade. Terrific 3 pt. scorer.
Wish we had him. Another player to spread the floor.
Good night all.
Rock Preston
January 31st, 2010
1:31 am
Guys…it is so obvious…Sund is letting Woodson hang himself with him boneheaded “strategy” moves….if u even want to call them that. I’ll give Woody this….he is a good defensive mind having learned from Larry Brown. But he clearly…I mean CLEARLY limited in making adjustments offensively and sumtimes defensively to be able to lead this team past the 1st round. He was brought in to instil discipline and he has done that…Im sure Sund will see what he has with Woody and decide to go in another direction. Its painful to watch other young guards dominate the lane for other teams and not see Teague get a chance to contribute. Think about it…If you have a point guard to penetrate the lane to draw D. Howard..then you have other avenues for Joe and Jamal to work….plus you could get Howard into foul trouble. But our stubborn excuse for a coach wont do anything different that would negatively affect his potential contract down the line by playing a player (teague) that could positively impact a game. Frustrating watching this mess nite after nite.
Sid
January 31st, 2010
2:38 am
Rocky – Crawford drove with reckless abandon from the moment he came into the game and no one actually moved with them to present them at the front of the rim even though everyone knows Howard is gonna go for the block. When Crawford comes around that screen and it becomes 4 on 3 every stays spread and Howards man never trailed Howard to the rim .Our frontcourt did not want anything to do with the paint today. We really need to work on our pick and roll offense the second half teams dont expect and when we are not lazy it works well for us . and it could work against the magic as Howard is the only god defender they really have .
Anthony
January 31st, 2010
2:46 am
They sound like the defeated losers that they are. The Hawks have never amounted to anything so why would that change with all these 2nd rate players that they have now??
Just Saying
January 31st, 2010
3:21 am
Two steps forward. Five steps back!!!!!!
Born2Buzz
January 31st, 2010
4:33 am
The Hawks better learn how to be the aggressor and beat the Magic by outscoring them. They do nothing to try to get Howard in foul trouble and get to the line. You’re not going to beat them scoring in the 80’s.
Willy Wonker
January 31st, 2010
5:07 am
Hawks suck and allways will suck. Suck suck Suck.
allen
January 31st, 2010
6:46 am
Trade Bibby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vava74
January 31st, 2010
6:48 am
We were up 16-6 when the refs bailed the Magic with a series of bogus calls and non calls (for instance: Collins had a clean steal on Howard quickly converted into a foul in the penalty, then Collins was called for a moving screen when he was being pushed and Marvin was sacked when driving for a reverse lay up). All within 4 or 5 minutes of play and I am not being exhaustive.
When something like that happens, it becomes difficult to defend Howard because you fear getting called for every contact and you start to fear attacking the rim.
Then there was the bogus call on Josh plus the tech on Woody: a maximum of 2 pts for the Magic converted into 4.
Zaza was called for a foul and a tech when he dove for the ball with Howard pushing him. Then, we we were closing in again, he was called for a moving screen.
Again, I’m not being exhaustive. Just point the obvious. How can you play against this?!
In order to beat Orlando, we either have to be 200% or get a fair chance from the refs.
Anyone ignoring their influence on Howard’s “dominance” is blind.
vava74
January 31st, 2010
6:50 am
Ah! He also got away with at least three or four 3-second defensive offenses in the lane. Pretty easy to get blocks that way too…
Big Daddy
January 31st, 2010
6:54 am
I agree with Najeh. Play Dwight straight up and he will get his points. If we play tough defense on the others we can win the game. However, we have to knock down our open shots. I don’t understand Marvin Williams who can look like a world beater one night and too many nights look like he is just out there taking up space. Most of the other players are pretty consistent on their shooting within a few points or boards, but Marvin is a mystery. If he makes his open shots, he can take the pressure off JJ and Jamal. It will open Horford and Smoove up more because the player guarding Marvin will be less likely to leave for a double team.
We have got to not get so bogged down in isos. They use up too much energy for both JJ and Jamal and I don’t understand for the life of me why Woody doesn’t make more use of the screens. Players like JJ, Jamal, Bibby, Teague could square up and take good shots off screens. It could give Smoove, Evans or Joe S clearer paths too the basket to get to the rim and make the layup/dunk or draw the foul. But, we don’t use them. Instead we allow or pursue 6 to 10 second isos that drain the energy out of our guards and don’t allow them to recover on the defensive end. I don’t see any of the other top tier teams running as many isos as we do and it may spell Woody’s undoing.
We have to spread the ball around, set screens to free up players for open shots and run with the ball. Period
Willy Wonker
January 31st, 2010
6:58 am
Hawk fans are a bunch of cry babies just like the team. They Suck and know it and need any excuse to they can come up with to ignore that they are incapable of being a elite team. Sure they beat Boston, only because Boston is aging team.
vava74
January 31st, 2010
7:13 am
Willy,
And you seem a “foul weather fan”. Where have you been when we win games?
DecentJ
January 31st, 2010
7:14 am
I’m a Big Hawks fan and I’m at a lost for words on why they just don’t let Crawford do his thing…Teams already know they can exploit Bibby’s lack of speed…Crawford goes in to play catch up..yes, sure it’s smart to put him in best position to get the 6th man award, but I just think the chemistry with Crawford and Joe is still lacking and hurting this team. Is Crawford a threat to Joe’s Big Payday?
It amuses me when I hear Joe say he isn’t thinking about the contract till the end of the season…c’mon now when contract time arrives every stat matters…. Crawford and Joe’s body language and chemistry says alot … that aside …We need a Visibly vocal Player who isn’t afraid to hold other accountable on the court…Example–Garnett, Kobe, etc–etc– Hawks players have Too many of same personality types –outside of Z and Smooth….think about it…WWBD (What Would Barkley Do??) … JSmooth can learn alot from the Magic/Isiah rivalry, LOL
ltdbrave
January 31st, 2010
8:18 am
You would think at some point this would hit home that the Hawks need a true center. Horford is an excellent player but not a center and the 2 centers on the bench aren’t worth talking about.
"Chef" Tim Dix
January 31st, 2010
8:23 am
Josh from the top of the key and making it spelled doom for the Hawks last night.
BTW, this is rapidly becoming Al’s team w/ Josh as his Lt./enforcer.
Not a bad combo.
dawgfan
January 31st, 2010
8:36 am
I agree with vava74…Howard gets his 2nd foul with 6 minutes to go in the game…no way a big man throws his body around and knocks people off of him with his big shoulders and only commit 2 fouls in an NBA game. Refs control the calls to dictate the game. Watch Howard when he matches up with the Lakers or Cavs and see how quickly he gets whistled. It’s always a double standard in the league…thats why you have the same teams dominating every year.
Hawk n the Ham
January 31st, 2010
8:48 am
Trade Bibby and Marvin for Amare.
Clyde
January 31st, 2010
9:01 am
FIRE WOODY
Michael L.
January 31st, 2010
9:08 am
They will never go nowhere they can;’t beat Cleveland or Orlando…soo who cares what seed they are or if they win 50….
David
January 31st, 2010
9:39 am
Hawks season was “made” when they beat Boston Friday; this game against the Magic was anticlimactic.
tim
January 31st, 2010
10:11 am
Nothin to “figure out” Mike Woodson……your team shot 39%. You can’t win many games when you miss 61% of your shots, but it’s the typical NBA throw up crap and hope it goes thru the net. College B Ballers are the REAL professionals.
TheAntiMe
January 31st, 2010
10:16 am
If we have to wait for Woody to <figure something out then by that time Dwight Howard will be old enough to collect Social Security.
big worm
January 31st, 2010
10:40 am
its a shame when a guy on a 10 day contract has played more min than your 1st round pick woodys not right guy
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
10:43 am
Im tired of this i have thrown in the towel marvin william is horrible, its time 2 keep real about marvin, no contribution from the 3 position is hurting this team bad.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
Rock Preston
January 31st, 2010
10:45 am
I 2nd that emotion THEANTIME. Woody is as clueless as they come. This hopefully will save us the embarrasment of watching him coach the East All Stars. He doesnt deserve to coach the East All Stars.
KB
January 31st, 2010
10:48 am
Stop complaining about fouls. Everyone knows that Howard is a poor FT shooter and teams fowl him as part of the game plan.. If you watched howard’s games, players grab him by the neck, throw him to the ground, under-cut him, 3 players swatting at him, etc. At one point Howard got a tech for verbal retaliation because an opponent grabbed him by the neck and Van Gundy was really verbal about the league play against howard on the post game interview…the next day the tech was recinded. Howard gets many, many calls against him like in the Celts game. The fact is that Al can’t handle Dwight. Za Za is waaay to slow, and Collins needs to get into shape…these out of shape guys tend to foul more because they cant get into position so the grab and swat.
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
10:51 am
Woody is hanging himself on a rope no development of teague at all,how can we ever find our future point guard when woody continue the same old crap he have been doing from day 1 as a coach, he is a confidence killer of young players.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
11:00 am
The smartest thing woody did the hole night was 2 play jason collin on dewight howard, what a clueless coach i think woody just get caught up in the momments instead of coaching, if your a coach and you see a player who is 6′5 in horford guarding 7′7 dewight howard what do you do you make adjustment and he did nothing but play jason for 5min what a waste.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
11:11 am
MICHAEL CUNNINGHAM CAN YOU GET THE SCOOP ON WHY WOODY CUT OF HIS EYEBROW IS THAT A MASONIC RITCHAL FIND OUT FOR ME.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Eman
January 31st, 2010
11:27 am
No trade for a big= second round lost= no contract for Woody= Joe leaves to team up with lebron= NO FUTURE FOR THE HAWKS= NO FAN SUPPORT= TEAM MOVES BY 2015.
Dan
January 31st, 2010
11:32 am
I said this yesterday before the game a it is once again validated after las nights game:
3 Reasons why Josh Smith is not an All-Star:
1- He got rid of his 3-point shots, but he still tries that “just inside the three-point line jumpshot”, which he can’t make consistently. I think that everybody in the league knows that, but Josh, himself.
2- He is a constant whiner about not getting fouls called. Does it really matter? I mean he’s going to miss at least half of the foul shots. Which brings me to #3.
3- He has to improve his foul shooting.
Josh is a gifted athelete that can become great player in this league, if he works on improving on his weaknesses and stop being so stubborn. That coast to coast sh@# has to stop.
BTW I wonder what our record is when we wear the alt uniform. Does anybody know?
Eman
January 31st, 2010
11:33 am
This team does not have a leader thus they will never win a championship ever!!!!
Dan
January 31st, 2010
11:40 am
The Hawks play a lot better when the move around w/o the ball and they stay active. The problem is with all the isolation plays, the offense just becomes stagnant. Why do you think the triangle offense is so successful, it creates a flow.
Dan
January 31st, 2010
11:41 am
Here’s a play for you that almost always works:
Bibby and Josh pick and roll or Bibby and al pick and roll. It’s that simple!
NoleRick
January 31st, 2010
11:41 am
I think the biggest thing is that the Hawks dont have “superstar” thats going to get sent to the foul line. I watched the Boston and the Orlando game and its amazing that no one on this team can get to the line consistently. Friday night it was Paul Pierce, who in the longest 3rd quarter of basketball I have ever withnessed, went to the line an unprecidented amount of times, and the Celts were able to get back into the game.
Last night it was Howard, 20times the total Hawks team 18. Enough said. JJ is our “start” but he does not demand the help from the Zebras.
JeJe
January 31st, 2010
11:46 am
Do the Hawks actually make adjustments vs. ORLANDO or are we just gonna hear this “We haven’t figured Orlando out yet” crap every time they destroy us?
FIRE MIKE WOODSON
AND JOSH SMITH, LEARN SOME DAMN POST MOVES. U ARE AN AWKWARD POST PLAYER AND HAVE NO FLUIDITY OR NATURAL FEEL FOR THE GAME.
THAT’S WHY YOU’RE NOT AN ALL STAR
Dan
January 31st, 2010
11:48 am
I agree with you Nole, but the problem is that when JJ penetrates or drives to the basket, he is looking for ways to score as opposed to guys like Paul Pierce that look for a way to get fouled so they can have 2 free ones. One tries to avoid contact (JJ) and waht Pierce does is try to create contact to get to the foul line. Back in the 80’s Adrian Dantley was a master of getting to the line by just creating the contact from the defensive player.
Dan
January 31st, 2010
11:54 am
Guys the Hawks are 30-16, enough with this fire Woody crap. It’s not gonna happen. Stop hating and start supporting!!!!
Dan
January 31st, 2010
11:55 am
It’s not so much about the coaches anymore, it’s about what the players can get done on the court. Or are Mike Brown, Stan Van Gundy or Doc Rivers super coaches? Please, give me a break!!!
Mike is Back
January 31st, 2010
12:11 pm
MC, great stuff as usual…it never surprises me to READ the level of discontent on the blog after a big loss. I mean guys like Wood, JJ, Josh, and Al are being honest about the outcome of the game. Would guys rather they lie to us?
Well, I guest most have forgotten that that was the reason LBJ and the Cavs went out and got Shaq…BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY JUST DIDN’T MATH UP WELL WITH DHoward and Orlando. Why are so many people surprise to hear the Hawks admit the same…oh I know…it a sign of weakness…what ever!!
I agree, it is the coaches job to formulate a scheme to take away a dominate player like DH…however, we are still taking about the team that represented the East in the NBA FINALS last season…so it ain’t like the Hawks are playing second fiddle to some lowly team…jez. With the resigning of JJ looming…I wouldn’t try to do too much before the trade deadline. There are going to be some teams that make a run at JJ…you can count it.
Just like the SA game…we can’t dwell on one loss…The Hawks has far exceeded most everyone expectation thus far…when the playoff start…anything is possible.
Some Boston fans set in our section for that game Friday…we were High Fiving the F out of them every time the Hawks scored. I can’t remember when I had that much fun at a Hawks game against Boston…with the tremendous effort and energy it took to finish off Boston…it was going to be a huge challenge going into Orlando on a back-to-back.
After that Boston game I thought we would finally knock off Orlando…well it did not happen…time to move on and get ready for the next opponents…like MC said…THIS IS THE NBA BABY!!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hawkfan
January 31st, 2010
12:16 pm
I agree with Sid and Dan and others:-
WE NEED TO USE THE PICK-N-ROLL MUCH BETTER!
It is NBA 101. B/c the Hawks do not consistently run effective pick-n-roll plays … most half court possesions end up with very difficult shots by JJ or JC, regardless if the shots are falling or not.
This weakness is REALLY exposed when the Hawks cannot stop opponent from scoring on the defenside end.
With that said, why is it so hard to design more Bibby-Josh or Bibby-Horford pick-n-rolls?? They would allow Bibby to get near the paint so he can dish out to the shooters (Marvin, JJ, JC) or to possibly pass it back to the screener cutting towards the rim. It also allows the offense to swing the ball and create ball movement as the defense scrambles to cover the perimeter players. It is the simplest play in basketball yet the WORST play ran by the Hawks.
If Steve Nash at age 34 can run it every time down the court, I dont see why Bibby can’t do the same. Even though Nash has better 1-on-1 moves, neither have that much speed but they’re both great passers and shooters. I have given up with Woody allowing Teague to run this play (at least this year) so this is why I am using Bibby as the main example.
Bottom line is that the play friggin works, and the Hawks have the talent and personnel, but unfortunately, not the coach to develop it.
kwooden1
January 31st, 2010
12:23 pm
Sid I think you make the strongest point in terms of what we can do against Orlando and Cleveland. We have to make them play us inside. Atlanta tried to go to Smoove in the post a lot but they didn’t go to Horford enough in the post. We have to make Howard, Shaq, Big-Z play some one-on-one defensive. Horford can face-up and attack Shaq and Big-Z. He should be able to face-up and take Dwight away from the basket. On the defensive side, we’re going to have to try different double teams to get him out of the right post. Overall I’m frustrated, but probably not as frustrated as the players and the coaches. I do believe they will get better and figure out a more effective strategy.
GO HAWKS!!!!
tiger woo
January 31st, 2010
12:34 pm
Fire Woody? In the middle of the season with a 30-16 record? How silly can you be? As if firing Woody will suddenly fix everything and the Hawks will cruise to the championship.
Any good replacements for Woody in mind? JeJe? Clyde?
I guess the Celtics should fire Doc Rivers since the Hawks beat them 4 straight, huh?
Orlando is simply a tough matchup for Atlanta – especially on a back to back night. No need to panic – do you think Boston is throwing in the towel because Atlanta swept them? No, they are going to work to get better and try to come out on top next time – just like Atlanta needs to do.
Wabe
January 31st, 2010
12:35 pm
It’s fairly obvious after our 3 meetings that we don’t matchup very well vs. Orlando. We had a great 1st half on our Thanksgiving day game, but then got blown away in the 2nd half. It seems that points are very hard to come by when we play them. We had a lull in the 1st quarter of that game, and that trend seemed to pickup throughout other portions of the game as well.
After watching the Hawks get 3 shots at them, it’s fairly obvious to me that we just can’t beat them. I think the playoff picture in the East will basically determine who walks out of the East this season. I think it’s obvious that both Hawks/Cavs fans don’t want any part of the Magic. C’s fans don’t want to see the Hawks. Magic fans would rather see the Hawks/Cavs.
Hawks don’t want Magic.
Magic don’t want C’s.
C’s don’t want Hawks.
And Cleveland is the wildcard.
Wabe
January 31st, 2010
12:42 pm
Cleveland may have the best record in the Eastern Conference, but Orlando has the best talent across the board, hands-down. They’ve got a talented starting 5 with the best bench in the East. I’d say they have the best bench in the league, but I’m gonna give the Lakers a slight edge over the Magic.
\
tiger woo
January 31st, 2010
12:52 pm
Wabe,
Unfortunately, you can’t choose who you want to play in the playoffs. So if you want to win the East, you might as well be prepared for any matchup scenario that takes place.
The Hawks can beat Orlando – just need to play all 48 minutes – shoot better and play better defense – it’s that simple. And I guarantee you that the Celtics would love to get another shot at the Hawks in the playoffs.
Astro Joe
January 31st, 2010
1:06 pm
I’m not sure where to find this stat but I bet that Orlando’s bench has badly out-played the Hawks bench in the 3 games. It’s one thing to have problems handling Howard, it’s another when a Ryan Anderson, Jason Williams or JJ Redick do damage. But then again, that is the difference between an $80M payroll and a $65M payroll.. quality bench depth.
Jay-Bee
January 31st, 2010
1:36 pm
Having a big man who can attack big men like Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan and Shaquille O’Neal offensively and has the size to defend him one-on-one, with only occasional double-teams, is the only way to overcome “elite” teams like Cleveland, Orlando, San Antonio and the World Champion Lakers.
Speaking of the Lakers, rumors abound that they are willing to trade Andrew Bynum for Toronto’s Chris Bosh. The Laker braintrust knows that they play better when only Bynum or Gasol is on the floor than they do when both guys are on the floor at the same time.
With that said, I think the Hawks should seriously consider trading for Bynum even though the Lakers would probably want Al Horford in return. Both teams would probably have to add players to the mix to make the salaries work but wouldn’t this trade could help both teams resolve their biggest area of need?
boston
January 31st, 2010
1:38 pm
Why are Hawks fans so apathetic? Everytime I tune in to one of their games the place is half full and no one is cheering ….you guys have a great team and no one down there cares. Very weird.
hock
January 31st, 2010
1:58 pm
No question that having a relatively small power forward playing center is a problem, but equally problematic is tying up superstar cap space on one of the dumbest players in the NBA. You-know-who can jump like Dominique and make specular plays, but he takes quarters or even games off and is a cinch to make a stupid play at a critical time.
bigdave
January 31st, 2010
2:13 pm
though mixing in a pick and roll every now and then would be fine making it the staple of our offense could be a problem do to personnel. Bibby is a decent pick and roll guard at this point in his career due to his passing and shooting touch. as far as the screen setter, Josh is ideal due to his ability to finish at the rim however, he’s no threat to “pop” and take a mid range jumper. defenders would play him to take a jumper. teams that do this well have bigs (usually at PF) who can finish both in the paint and have touch from outside (the Boozer’s and Amare’s). not saying we wouldnt have success b/c occasionally we do when we run it. i am however for more of a motion offense… due to our overall good team passing…
Hawk n the Ham
January 31st, 2010
2:24 pm
Have we won 1 game wearing the alternate jerseys?
O'Brien
January 31st, 2010
2:32 pm
Guys,
Lets not get carried away. Although the Magic have our number, it does not mean that Woody should be fired. The Hawks have the Celtics number this season. Does that mean that Doc Rivers should be fired?
The problem for the Hawks is their gameplan against the Magic, and their execution. If our defensive gameplan says to double D12, sometimes we double team too quick, or we double team too late. And if we’re playing him one on one, we’ll do a good job until the very last second, and then the refs call a foul.
And then we get to the shooters too late when the ball is passed around. We need to step up our defensive intensity and play disciplined team defense. And the switching does not work against the Magic.
AJ,
Agreed. $15 mil goes a long way when it comes to bench players.
Is there anyway the Hawks can trade for Brendan Haywood and his $6 mil expiring contract? He is a 7 footer that would be very helpful if we meet up with Cleveland (Shaq, Big Z, and Varajao) or Orlando (D12, Gortat) in the playoffs.
sam'l
January 31st, 2010
2:42 pm
Enter your comments here
cdog
January 31st, 2010
2:51 pm
WILL SOMEONE PLEASE INFORM RICK SUND TO DO SOMETHING TO BRING IN A BIG MAN. IN ORDER FOR THE HAWKS TO GET TO THEFINALS, THEY WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH EITHER CLEVELAND OR ORLANDO. RIGHT NOW, THE HAWKS DON’T HAVE THE ROSTER TO BEAT THEM. JASON COLLINS IS NOT THE ANSWER. SOMEONE PLEASE KICK SUND AND WAKE HIM UP TO THIS.
sam'l
January 31st, 2010
3:26 pm
Hawks winning at good percentage. Maybe if they are champs, Joe Johnson stay. Can’t trade him now. But if all is los trade him JJ for a big strong effective proven center…….Check tape of multiple Orlando losses to other teams, come up with defensive plan……Can DH run?….maybe the best way is to run and run and tire him out. Maybe a zone….Maybe turn Mario loose in a box and one….Maybe trap full court and take away time to set up. Maybe foul him every time and give him complex. Maybe do all of this in rapidly shifting scenarios. Woody needs your help….come up with the answer. Really, there is always an answer………This team is close…just solve the Orlando mystery and keep the ball away from Lebron the last 3 minutes…..
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
3:29 pm
Mid Year Assessment:
Too many good comments above to address each one.
#1.Don’t fire [can't believe I'm saying this] Woodson just yet.
*Interim coach counter-productive at this point.
#2 If I’m Mr Sund, it’s time to pin Joe down and get at least a gut feel for what he’s gonna do. If he’s leavin’, then, blockbuster time.
#3 It’s al’s team now. Like “chef Tim Dix” said with Josh as his right hand man. this fits in with [#2] letting Joe go. ‘Only if he does not want to be here’. I think maybe he is realizing it is no longer his team. He allowed it to occur due to his meek personality.
#4. David Stern is not gonna let the Hawks beat Orl. or Cleve. either for that matter. ‘vava74′ nailed it. The sequence in the 4th qtr. was
sickening. Loose ball [Zaza foul], Zaza/perfect pos. [moving screen] c’mon, DH, egregious ‘bulldozer’ charge [blocking call].
#5. ‘Big Daddy’ and others are correct. Play DH straight up.
“Hack-a-Shaq”. They have too many shooters to double.
He can’t hit his free throws anyway.
We have enough bodies to throw @ him.
Collins/Morris/Zaza/Smith/heck even Marv: thats 30 fouls.
Woodson said he had not figured out a plan on how to beat Orl. yet.
Have him call Big Daddy.
#6. Marv: maybe just maybe, he’s playing out of position. Maybe he’s
a [4] or a [5] thats just too awkward to play the [3]. Why not try
something different with him. Post him up, make him a cutter moving without the ball, something, anything to help him reach his enormous potential.
#7. Woody’s biggest shortcoming: Does not understand how to develop talent. Some people would say…look @ the growth of the team under Wdsn. Okay, lets, Ken Strickland preaches all the time: name who is here that began here with Wdsn. Josh? Yet people seem to think the team on the floor has been together with Wdsn. since they were rookies
six yrs. ago. (Diaw/Childress/Sheldon/Acie/SS/*Marv*/Teague). ???
#8. Start Teague. Bibby is now a role player. a situational 3 pt.scorer.
*Joe is probably an older player than his actual age, I’ll explain:
*due to his mileage, much like an automoble, Wdsn. has chalked up
alot of wear and tear on Joe. No disrespect at all to Joe. I’ve said before Joe is a very unique and valuable player!
dap01
January 31st, 2010
3:39 pm
Orlando has ATL’s number. Other teams play Orlando better than the Hawks. The Hawks play other teams better than they play the Magic. Obviously our game plan against the Magic is flawed. Why don’t we use 6 hard fouls per big man against Howard? Why do we retreat into the ISO offense when things tighten up?
JeJe
January 31st, 2010
3:40 pm
Woodson is obviously a moron. He said he doesn’t need to play Teague because he has Bibby and Crawford.
Um, Bibby has regressed severely and flat-out sucks now. He is only good for 3 point shooting. Jamal may start next year if Joe is gone.
Wake up you bald eyebrow-less idiot. You are screwing up our future
JeJe
January 31st, 2010
3:43 pm
Josh Smith should be traded for an actual big man. This guy has the worst post game I’ve ever seen. He is never in control, his hook shots look abysmal, and he keeps taking jumpshots now. Trade Smoove and Bibby for Al Jefferson and another player on Minnesota, or try nab Amare. Josh Smith was not robbed for not making the AS team. He is not good enough to make it. Pierce, Wallace, etc. are all light years better offensively and are mature. Smoove is an out-of-control athlete with little offensive potential in the post or shooting
dap01
January 31st, 2010
3:43 pm
Grandad: Good points! You mentioned moving Marvin thru screens without the ball. Is an NBA team allowed to do those things? Move without the ball…..screens…..? Don’t that require an offensive plan?
Ken Strickland
January 31st, 2010
3:47 pm
CDOG-name a BIG MAN that we could bring in that you are certain can do a better job of containing DHoward? Think about this. Woodson knows we’ve have trouble matching the overall size and length of both Cleveland and Orlando inside. His solution was to put a proven inside scorer like 6′11″ 260lb C/PF RMorris on the inactive list, in favor of 6′5″ SG/SF offensively limited MWest, and give 6′10″ 230lb C/PF Joe Smith a DNP COACHES DECISION. NOW THAT’S JUST PLAIN STUPID.
Hell, Teague can give just as much DEF hustle and ball pressure as MWest, plus a whole lot more OFF. Woodson simply isn’t imaginative, flexible, innovative, openminded, knowledgeable, forward thinking and/or confident enough to coach the Hawks to their maximum capabilities. While he’s done an admirable job to this point, the overall talent, youth, depth and versatility GM RSund has given him is beyond his ability to effectively handle.
I wonder if Sund and/or the ASG will be progressive enough to look past the teams won/loss record and make the right decision to hire another HC?
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
3:59 pm
dap01:
Thanks!
Mr. Stern does allow certain teams to screen.
You are correct sir: I forgot for a moment… we have no off. scheme.
Due to our current c.o.y. candidate who has no:
*plan,scheme,philosophy,attack,system,background,idea,or clue!!!
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
4:04 pm
Ken Strickland:
Amen!
Even though there are some scenarios [trade wise] that would/could help.
I fear they would just sit.
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
4:08 pm
We need a center with out giving up 2 much maybe a 1st and that it for BIEDRINS,OR BRENDAN HAYWOOD me i say biedrins but brandon wouldn’t be bad either.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
cdog
January 31st, 2010
4:13 pm
GOOD POINT KEN STRICKLAND. RANDOLPH MORRIS SHOULD BE HELPING BUT FOR SOME REASON HE AND COLLINS AS WELL AS JOE SMITH ARE NOT GETTING THE JOB DONE AGAINST THOSE TEAMS. WHO DO SUND BRING IN?AMARIE STOUDERMIER, BYNUM, CAMBRY? I DON’T KNOW. BUT I DO KNOW SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE BECAUSE ITS LOOKS LIKE AFTER THE FIRST ROUND, THE HAWKS HAVE TO FACE ONE OF THOSE TEAMS AND WITH OUR CURRENT ROSTER, I DON’T SEE US ADVANCING ANY FURTHER.
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
4:15 pm
BRENDAN HAYWOOD 6MILL A YEAR 30 YEAR OLD PTS 9.7 REB 10.5
ANDRIS BIEDRINS 9MILL A YEAR 23 YEAR OLD PTS 5.6 REB 7.7
witch player do we take?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
4:18 pm
We have 2 move marvin 2 the bench front line JOSH, HORFORD, HAYWOOD OR BIEDRINS.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
terrell
January 31st, 2010
4:30 pm
Still switching on defense against the Magic? Wtf! And for people saying Horford is too small to play center, he’s an ALL-STAR center. Haven’t you heard? Everyone has trouble with Howard.
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
4:43 pm
Terrell we no horford made the all star but he is not a center, if you think this current hawks roster can make 2 the championship then you will be 1 disappointing hawks fan at the end, moving horford to power ford will make him a much better player plus it will take a lot of pressure of the team.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
catfish31015
January 31st, 2010
4:44 pm
Knew them boogers would lose. The Magic out-hustled them.
making your point
January 31st, 2010
4:50 pm
we’re talking hawks nba
listen..
http://www.sportsjourney.com
or hit us up on twitter@mypshow
cp
January 31st, 2010
5:14 pm
In our recent two losses we needed all the size we have yet Woodrow chose to have a big sit in a suit just so he could have Mario on the activated roster. Enough is enough. We didn’t need nor need Mario. What we needed was some size and some guys to bother the opposing big men. We didn’t need an undersized sg who cant shoot nor dribble and is the most over hyped defender I have ever seen on the court… I know Woodrow loves Mario but that makes no sense what so ever to have him activated when you know we need all the size we have. Add in the fact that Joe Smith cant get any minutes and I’m just baffled by Woodrow at times…..Marvin is dang near invisible out there. If I wasn’t watching the games I would swear Marvin didn’t play for the Hawks. We have to get better production out of that sf position… Mo Evans is terrible defensively and a very streaky shooter… I don’t know think this team goes far in the playoffs as constructed.
JeJe
January 31st, 2010
5:20 pm
WOODSON NEVER TAKES RISKS WITH THE ROSTER. HE USES THE SAME DAMN ROTATION EVERY GAME, NO MATTER WHAT’S WORKING AND WHAT’S NOT. PATHETIC COACHING. GET RID OF THIS IDIOT AFTER THE YEAR AND GET A REAL COACH LIKE AVERY JOHNSON. THE GUY KNOWS HE WANTS TO COME HERE.
WE HAVE JASON COLLINS, ONE OF THE BIGGEST PLAYERS IN THIS LEAGUE, YET WE SELDOM USE HIM. LOL PATHETIC.
0-5 VS. ORLANDO/CLEVELAND LMAO
JeJe
January 31st, 2010
5:21 pm
WE NEED TO DOMINATE THIS FEBRUARY SCHEDULE. THERE’S NO REASON WE SHOULD NOT WIN THE NEXT 7 OR 8 GAMES
JeJe
January 31st, 2010
5:39 pm
Enter your comments here
JeJe's Mom
January 31st, 2010
5:43 pm
JeJe, get off the computer son and come take your riddlin. Stop trying to talk with the grownups.
Ken Strickland
January 31st, 2010
5:44 pm
When Sund signed JCollins, JSmith and RMorris, who really improved over the off season, he thought he was giving Woodson the size, length and experience he’s always complained his bench was lacking. He even allowed Woodson to draft the PG he wanted in JTeague. What has been the result of Sunds efforts? Well, Teague has gotten the typical ALaw treatment, while JSmith, JCollins and RMorris have gotten the SJones treatment. In other words, they’ve all been grossly underutilized.
JJ, JCrawford, FMurray and Bibby are all veteran guards, and are the only players Woodson has allowed to have a real impact within his limited halfcourt OFF system.
In my last post, I asked a question about the resolve of Sund and/or the ASG to ignore our won/loss record and hire another HC. Well, I think they might try to play both ends against the middle by offering Woodson another short term contract with a lowball salary. If he accepts, they at least save money, although it will likely mean the possible trashing of another young guard’s confidence and/or career. If he balks, they get to hire another HC with him making the decision not to return.
O'Brien
January 31st, 2010
6:26 pm
Ken,
True Dat. Woodson’s moves are very frustrating. Joe Smith is a perfect backup for Josh, because Joe Smith can do something that Josh can’t. Hit the jumper more consistently. But Joe Smith does not get enough PT.
RandMo has a decent offensive game, and he is taller than Al. But yet he was in a suit (and its not like Al’s defense was shutting down D12 anyway). Plus that would have been 6 more fouls to use on D12.
And the switching defense does not work against Orlando. But Woody continues to switch anyway.
We have seen Cleveland trade for Shaq for one reason only, and thats to play D12 one on one in the playoffs. If the Hawks meet the Cavs or Magic in the playoffs, their size will give us trouble.
So, is there anyway the Hawks can put together a package for Brendan Haywood? He is a 7 foot Center who is averaging 10 pts, 10 rebs and 2 blocks per game (and I think ZaZa has regressed this year). He has an expiring $6 mil contract. Does anyone have any trade ideas/suggestions?
Eman
January 31st, 2010
6:42 pm
Lets say that we do trade for Haywood. Do really want Josh to play small forward? He does not have a jump shot and teams would just clog the lane. Also, Haywood do not fit the hawks game plan and that is to run run run. If we trade for him then we have to put him on the bench because he do not fit our game plan. I say that the hawks are stuck with their current line up.
tyger
January 31st, 2010
6:43 pm
Paper Mache II
Is 3rd place good enough? It’s sad to admit to, but in ATL, after 10 consecutive losing seasons – just to be back in the hunt is good enough. Expectations at the upper level are low, theyre happy not to be on the bottom and arent willing to rock the boat, even if the door is ajar.
BK used to say, the team was built for the post-Shaq era, but now they cant account for Lebron or DHoward. A trade makes sense, they are incomplete. The obstacles have been identified. Now its up to small pockets to pull the trigger.
vava74
January 31st, 2010
6:44 pm
Ken,
Looking at how the refs called fouls on Zaza and Collins, it would have been useless to put Joe and RandMo in. They would have been called all their fouls within 10 minutes of game.
I agree with what you say (those guys should be more utilized) but we were playing well until the refs took the game over. Read my post above again and you will certainly remember all those pivotal calls… And those were just the most striking.
vava74
January 31st, 2010
6:51 pm
MC,
Could you please talk to JJ and tell him that the fans out here believe that he should be more reivindicative of the fouls he does not get called in our favour and that he should look for more evident contact and just let a grunt go whenever he is touched…
We desperately need to get more FT called…
Heck, we are desperate!
richbrave
January 31st, 2010
7:03 pm
“Woody’s schemes haven’t been effective enough. “We’ve got to figure it out,” Woody said. “We’ll go back and look at the tapes…….”
I strongly suggest you look at the WIZ-MAGIC game tape from several weeks ago. They started HAYWOOD off solo against him, then increasingly gave WOOD help as the game went on. After the first, I had an appointment, and didn’t tape the HAWKS-MAGIC game. Was BIG AL getting help late in the game?
richbrave
January 31st, 2010
7:06 pm
BTW WOOD is being shopped. He wants out of the circus as he is looking for his retirement contract. He’s just 30 and should be big enough to be effective on the HAWKS club, but he’s pretty slow – a grinder.
doc
January 31st, 2010
7:10 pm
ok to playthe game since these giys are on the block and might go in tandem …..to get your big man would anyone go after heyward and butler in a trade for marvin and al? to get something you usually have to give up something unless it is l a for gasol or the hawks for jamal. yes it can be done but unfortunately there are few bigs out there with expiring contracts that would fill the bill, say for randmo. that scenario would at least get rid of marvin and get a big that might be able to challenge howard and might work on some economic scale. two birds of ongoing consternation among blog nation with one trade but would we really be better?
doc
January 31st, 2010
7:14 pm
rb i was writing this as you posted, see i got the spelling wrong on haywood. heard today there is a sale on wiz players that they are cleaning house.
richbrave
January 31st, 2010
7:29 pm
doc:
Oh yeah,, big time. They want JJ bad from what I understand. Let’s make a dea,l and tell the ASG-POLLIN’s later. What do you say? HAYWOOD and BUTLER for JJ and your #1. BUTLER’s signed, but WOOD’s free after this season.
O'Brien
January 31st, 2010
7:32 pm
richbrave,
The Hawks need a grinder for the playoffs, because whenever a quality team forces us into a halfcourt game, we tend to struggle. Haywood would help us out there.
doc,
The problem with trading Marvin is his BYC status, so that would make it more difficult to move him before the end of the season (because his salry would only count at 50% value). Can we include the rights to Chills to make it even out?
Would the Wiz take Marvin, ZaZa, and the rights to Chills for Haywood and Butler?
richbrave
January 31st, 2010
7:38 pm
doc:
In that win against the MAGIC, they left WOOD free on SUPERMAN until he scored two times in a row. Then they sagged or doubled on him just to take him out of rhythm They then would go back to their normal defense until he got on a min-roll again, when they would switch defenses to get him frustrated, and back and forth the whole game. The idea was HOWARD beats you, but you can’t completely ditch your defense just for him. SAUNDERS drew up a hell of a good strategy against him. The HAWKS staff really ought to look at that tape.
Big Ray
January 31st, 2010
7:42 pm
Any trade you make has to be something your team chemistry can survive. Not only survive, but improve upon. Unless of course, you are planning several moves ahead. You can make a trade that doesn’t seem to make great sense now, but will make much better sense when you’ve made your other moves in the offseason. That’s tricky, of course. And I won’t refer to what I’m thinking about.
KevinA
January 31st, 2010
7:42 pm
There is always hope, Josh Childress numbers
8-11 for 19 pt’s, in todays game, increasing his ledgendary FG% to .670 for the year.
And yes we still own his rights.
richbrave
January 31st, 2010
7:49 pm
O’Brien
January 31st, 2010
7:32 pm
richbrave,
The Hawks need a grinder for the playoffs, because whenever a quality team forces us into a halfcourt game, we tend to struggle. Haywood would help us out there.
Would the Wiz take Marvin, ZaZa, and the rights to Chills for Haywood and Butler?
Really O’B1, I don’t know. Can’t tell how desperate GRUNFELD and the POLLIN’s are right now. You know the team and the phone booth are up for sale. The supposed transition owner(TED LEONSIS, a 44% minority owner) is playing cat-and-mouse on the sale price. ERNIE’s probably a lame-duck GM, so anything could happen. Hey, I’ll take the trade, but this is a definite salary-dump, so contract strings would absolutely queer the deal (no offense anyone, please).
Jody
January 31st, 2010
7:51 pm
I think the Hawks have to seriously consider making moves. It may not happen before the trade deadline, but in the offseason, they’ve got to. The other teams in the east are only going to get better. To stand pat would be to settle for less.
richbrave
January 31st, 2010
7:55 pm
Jody
January 31st, 2010
7:51 pm
I think the Hawks have to seriously consider making moves. It may not happen before the trade deadline, but in the offseason, they’ve got to. The other teams in the east are only going to get better. To stand pat would be to settle for less.
The WIZARDS are not going to be better until they get the kinds of picks that the HAWKS have gotten over the past few years. They will be the equivilent to an expansion team next year.
Kahman frm Clippers
January 31st, 2010
8:02 pm
I say try to make a trade for either C. Kahman or B. Haywood/J. MaGhee. MaGhee is a high jumping 7ft freak, he may not have an offensive game but could change shots on the defensive end. Getting those two from the wizards means they can both come off the bench, marvin may have to go but since he isnt scoring or stopping anyone who cares
Jody
January 31st, 2010
8:02 pm
richbrave,
I agree with you there. The Wizards face a major rebuilding project before they’ll be good again. However, there will be other teams that will make moves to advance themselves. What will the Hawks do? At some point you either get serious about winning a title or get out of the way of teams that are.
Melvin
January 31st, 2010
8:21 pm
Richbrave,
I could live with your trade of ZaZa,Marvin,Chills for Haywood/Butler if it works salary wise…
Doc,
In your trade scenario the Wiz would have to give up Haywood/Butler/McGee if we are going to give up Horford and parts… I agree, you have to give up something to get something but Haywood and maybe Butler best days are behind them unlike Horford. McGee is the wildcard that could return some value to the Hawks down the road… Hey, we can all dream right.
Also, I agree with Astro Joe that the biggest difference between us and other big three is on the bench and payroll. If the Hawks committ to spend more $$$$ in line with the big dogs then we could keep our current core and go after some quality beef for the bench. I wonder what it would take for the Pistons to send Kwame Brown home to GA…
In closing, this team currently constructed is not the far off from the Elite status. A little more orgaic growth, upgrade the bench (Chills, Haywood or Kwame) and I think the Hawks could compete with any team…
O'Brien
January 31st, 2010
8:51 pm
Boston lost, but Orlando beat the Pistons. That means SVG will be coaching the ASG.
Ray,
I proposed the Chills/ZaZa/Marvin for Haywood and Butler, but I did not think about the possible Chemistry issues.
If Butler is on the team, chemistry could be an issue, because he needs his shots, JJ and Crawford need their shots, and Al and Josh need their shots.
However, maybe he is willing to accept a lesser role, with the chance to win a championship, and he would provide another scoring threat (which Marvin is not), and he gives Woody another ISO option (we know how Woody likes ISOs).
Marvin provided great Chemistry (and much better defense than Butler), but too often he disappears.
I just dont know how the Hawks can beat the Magic or the Cavs in a 7 game series (especially the way refs tend to help out the other teams).
Jody
January 31st, 2010
9:00 pm
I think as some point the hawks have to acquire a player who has the skills that will force Joe Johnson to defer on offense. Other than Jamal, the Hawks don’t have a guy with the offensive game that Woodson respects enough to force Joe Johnson to share the ball more. As much as we love Josh Smith and Al Horford, they offensive game is not respected enough to make Joe Johnson defer, especially in the 4th quarter.
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
9:38 pm
I like that trade butler, haywood for marvin, zaza but you want to be careful because you dont want 2 mess up the chemistry 2 much.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
9:43 pm
doc – Seriously, did I read correctly. Surely you did not suggest Big Al
as part of that trade scenario.
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
9:44 pm
I remember back in the days when the hawks had dominique, and they broke up the team and let spud go randy witman go and tree rollins for reggie theus, and moses malone, and reggie was at the end of his career and moses, and everyone said the would win championship and nothing happen and it set the hawks back for 10 years so you have 2 be careful when trading young player for old.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
9:52 pm
I say trade our first for biedrins, or haywood and not give up 2 much keep the same player but add a big if we can, or maybe throw in evans with the first for a big.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Steven A.
January 31st, 2010
10:04 pm
TALENT, YES…HEART, NO.
ELITE TEAM? GIVE ME A BREAK? JOSH SMITH IS THE ONLY TRUE ALL-STAR ON THIS SQUAD,
STEVE WONDER CAN SEE THAT; WOODY IS HOLDING HIM BACK.
ONLY 2 PLAYERS WHO SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED IN A TRADE DEADLINE DEAL ARE
JOSH SMITH and JAMAL CRAWFORD. THE CURRENT SQUAD WILL NEVER GET PAST ORLANDO OR CLEVELAND.
BRING IN STOUDAMIRE …PLEASE
Horford, Mo Evans, and “Starvin Marvin”, starving for a consistent offensive game, should all be considered in any possible trade deadlind deal. Neither one of these guys will show up when it matters MOST. Zsa Zsa would be better served in hollywood with one of the GABOR sisters with his non-exsistent and dissappering game. STICK A FORK IN RANDMO, he’s done at the end of this season.
ALSO GM…PLEASE BRING CHILL BACK!
doc
January 31st, 2010
10:04 pm
grandpa, you got to give up something and it sure would stop the biacthing around here if we get a center, al is gone, along with marvin to get a real center (with similar numbers) and a 3 (again with similar numbers). just putting it out there because the team with some valuable players having a firesale is the wiz so that seemed the logical place to go. some folks were trying to package haywood and butler to a ligit team, just saying why not us? as someone pointed out marvin really makes 8 mil but he is only worth 4 mil in a trade this year due to cba so it is not feasible.
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
10:04 pm
1st of all guys, too many changes are not what we need. like Big Ray said, “chemistry”. Also, don’t be so quick to throw Zaza around in trade talk. Zaza is valuable. If we could pick up BH then don’t try to make it into a blockbuster. Keep it simple. If Mr Sund can steal him
[as he did Jamal] then fine.
Another thing, someone said , BH would slow us down and we need to run. Yes we need to run, but the 1st thing you must have to run is possession of the ball. BH = blocked shots and rebounds.
Wdsn. is who slows us down. Plus the pace will ultimately slow in the play-offs anyway. We need a big in the middle for defense.
However, Who’s to say Wdsn would understand how to utilize another weapon in his arsenal.
If your thinking blockbuster, then you need to be thinking Joe and Chi.
darrell starks – Joakim Noah ? I’m kinda like Big Ray, I’ve got one swirling around in my head…I may unleash it on you guys in the next day or two just to see what kind of reaction would be stirred up.
Whew !
I’m gonna be like Clyde and start a new mantra:
Start Teaguer !
doc
January 31st, 2010
10:06 pm
melvin the window is always now if you can get the ring.
Ken Strickland
January 31st, 2010
10:11 pm
VALVA74-realistically, you don’t stop a player like DHoward. You try to neutralize him and/or force him to work extra hard to have an impact. RMorris could have used his polished inside moves and scoring ability to present DHoward with some DEF challenges. It’s no secret that Howard is very active, physical and foul prone.
If Woodson wasn’t so damned ridged and unimaginative in his approach to coaching, he might actually get the idea to create some mismatches that favor us. He could create an effective mismatch by playing a bigger, stronger RMorris @ PF against RLewis. Do you think Lewis could handle Morris in the post? Why not play JSmith @ SF and force a much smaller MBarnes to try and defend him? Does anyone think Lewis, Petry, Barnes or Anderson could handle RMorris, Joe or Josh Smith in the paint? Since Woody’s switching DEF forces our Bigs to play smaller players out on the perimeter anyway, how would Smoove, Morris or JSmith be at a disadvantage defensively?
WHY CONTINUE BEING STUPID AND COMMITTING YOUR ENTIRE DEF STRATEGY TO STOPPING DHOWARD, WHICH HAS YET TO WORK? FORCE THEM TO ADJUST TO US. Woodson stubbornly and stupidly continues to use an ineffective switching DEF against Orlando to cover for Bibby, which he insists on giving the bulk of the mins at PG. You’d think he’d have sense enough to try changing the pace at least occasionally by playing a much quicker, faster JTeague, who penetrates and is defensively superior. Playing Teague would give you the DEF you don’t get from Bibby and the OFF you don’t get from West.
STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES, EVEN IF STUPID DOES NOTHING.
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
10:11 pm
doc:
I agree with your premis.
My contention is that Big Al is ‘untouchable’.
Other than that, no problem with your logic.
JeJe
January 31st, 2010
10:15 pm
GOOD JOB WOODY.
IF U HAD BEATEN NEW YORK 1 OF 2 TIMES AT HOME, OR THE PATHETIC PISTONS WHEN THEY WERE WITHOUT B.GORDON, HAMILTON, AND PRINCE, U COULD’VE COACHED THE ALL STAR GAME.
U ARE A CRAPPY COACH WHO DOES NOT USE THE BENCH IN CLOSE GAMES AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ONE OF THE WORST HALF COURT OFFENSES IN NBA HISTORY. THE WHOLE NATION WILL SEE IN THE 2ND ROUND WHEN WE ARE SWEPT AGAIN, YOU PATHETIC JOKE
Melvin
January 31st, 2010
10:17 pm
Darell Starks,
You do know there are rules that exist in the NBA in regards to the salary cap which governs how a team trade, sign or aquire players? In other words, the Hawks can not acquire Biedrins (9mil/yr) or Haywood (6mil/yr) for a 1st round pick. You may want to use the trade machine on ESPN website to see if your trade scenario works before suggesting them…
O'Brien
January 31st, 2010
10:23 pm
I do think one interesting note is whether or not JJ will resign with the Hawks. I think we’re all thinking that JJ will resign with the Hawks as long as the money is comparable. I sure hope he stays, because if he leaves, the Hawks will take a step back.
But if there is a move to be made to make us more competitive in the playoffs, the Hawks need to make it. We dont know what next year might bring.
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
10:24 pm
Ken Strickland:
If I may. Continuing your thought process, how about putting our athletes out there and see if Orl. can catch us? Understanding that Teague needs to be on the floor, ala Spud Webb, pushing it! Make them play at a pace at which they are uncomfortable.
You are correct, Wdsn. is so enamored with stopping DH,
he fails to see all the assets we have that are available to him.
Plus he coaches scared.
Jody
January 31st, 2010
10:26 pm
Protecting chemistry is important, but becoming a titile contender should be more important for the Hawks.
Jody
January 31st, 2010
10:29 pm
O’brien,
Exactly. I think the Hawks should be more concerned with contending than with who’s name or who’s name is not on the back of the jersey.
doc
January 31st, 2010
10:39 pm
grandad the anti-horford’s didnt even bite on that one. just the same haywood contributes about as much when it comes to numbers as al does. yes, it would change how we play other teams as he wont rebound and get out and get the dunk on the other end. unfortunately that doesnt work with the magic either. would butler make up the difference in athleticism or is his defense worse than marvin?
funny just two days ago i was in a “spirited” conversation taking the stance if you allow josh and al to stay together they would rank with some of the great all time big combos. al doesnt have it when it comes to howard plain and simple and if that is who we have to go through every time then that will always be true. just want to know where you are headed and what you want as a hawks fan.
Melvin
January 31st, 2010
11:01 pm
Doc,
I’m not ready to jumpship with Horford yet. Maybe we can have AL get some pointers from Bill Russell. After all, he had to defend against the giant Wilt Chamberlain. Horford maybe undersize but he has a big heart and not afraid of Superman. I think he’s very cerebral and will figure out a way to use the krytonite against Superman. You gotta love his post game comments. Shows that he’s a true leader, warrior and not affraid of the Giant.
“They just have our number right now,” Al said. “We have to figure them out. We have to do a better job inside in the post, starting with me.””
KevinA
January 31st, 2010
11:10 pm
Works on the trade machine.
Carl Landry ……….3,000,000
Tracy McGrady….23,000,000
Aaron Brooks……2,000,000 = 28,694,371
Marvin Williams…6.7,000,000
Joe Johnson……..15,000,000
Bibby……………..5.6,000,000..=26,961,644
There is no guarentee JJ will be back next summer. The cap will be lower next year. There is no guarentee we will be able to afford to give Jamal, Al and Jamal raises they will want. Laundry and Brooks give us youth and speed to match Al and Josh and give us the point guard we never had.
Assuming McGrady plays bad (he may play great) it would weaken our bench but with Jamal/McGrady starting but we would have the maybe the most atheltic starting 5 in the league at a cheap price.
McGrady would leave at the end of the next year leaving the Hawks with 15+ million in salary space.
Housten would like the deal because of getting JJ for McGrady. JJ might even sign with Houston and get paid pay more than Atlanta would next year. Ming, Bibby and JJ all play better in a 1/2 court game.
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
11:17 pm
Personally, I like Al as a [4] and I’m of the mind set that Josh can be
a monster [3]. Think, Artest, I understand he can’t shoot. But, CB from Wash. is not a great shooter either.
Two things would need to occur: 1. A coach who could utilize Josh’s
magnificent athleticism in an offensive scheme taylored to fit not only his skill set but Al as well. 2. A long defensive minded [5] to insert
into the lineup.(Noah,Biedrins,Haywood,McGee,etc.)
I personally think Mr. Sund is going to build around Al and Josh.
I do not see Joe as a Hawk next yr. Although that is not my wish.
I think Jamal has found a home in Atl.
Teague needs to start now. Wdsn has already caused this kid damage.
As currently constructed we will not get beyond 2nd round. [Wdsn]
Stern will not let us advance even if Wdsn suddenly has an epiphany
and develops an offensive strategery. [re Mr. Bush]
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
11:17 pm
You guys kill me with this trade machine
HAWKS PAYROLL 65MILL
LAKER PAYROLL 90MILL and if the laker say let go get so and so they do it and increase payroll 100mill who care about payroll if you can do it and aford luxury tax do it.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
11:25 pm
Melvin – With all due respect, one cannot compare Al to BR.
Conversely, DH is not Wilt.
Also, DH is not a giant by any stretch.
DH: 6-10+, 7+ wingspan, now that body???
DH & LeBron, seriously, does the NBA [Stern] test?
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
11:26 pm
darrell starks:
There are some ins and outs.
However, we have the wherewithall to get it done.
I’m with you!!!
Go Hawks!
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
11:49 pm
My 11:17PM post was in response to doc. Sorry, forgot to mention that.
doc
February 1st, 2010
1:40 am
supposedly houston is interested in haywood and butler together. that is why i brought up those two names in particular together since we could use some help or upgrades at both positions to beat orlando. it was hypothetical since those positions night in and night out are sen as weaknesses. al has been humbled recently by the best in howard and duncan within the past week. i have a feeling bynum will do something similar to him as well. as much as i like al, i dont know if a 10/10 guy undersized with motor is untouchable on my team, if i know i can get better. no, heywood is probably not that guy either.
Grandad
February 1st, 2010
2:04 am
doc:
Glad I checked back in.
Al has intangibles that are not readily seen in stats.
As far as points, Al and Josh would score more without Joe dominating the ball. Plus true point guard. Not to mention an offensive system
with plays designed to get Al And Josh + even Marv the ball in spots
where they could comfortably score without pounding the ball.
Last item – Al has emerged as the leader of this team.
Kinda like, ‘Al is the heart and Josh is the soul’.
Doggone, I need to coin that one.
Grandad
February 1st, 2010
2:08 am
‘a’ true pt. guard.
Ken Strickland
February 1st, 2010
10:31 am
If we made a trade that would give us BHeywood at C instead of AHorford, would Heywood be able to defend PG’s and SG’s out on the perimeter as well as Horford? You know as long as Bibby isn’t blind, cripple or certifiably crazy he’ll be Woody’s starting PG. And Woody will continue playing his beloved switching DEF to try and cover for Bibby’s matador DEF.
Duluth Danny
February 1st, 2010
3:05 pm
We need to stop double teaming centers that we feel inferior to. Same thing happend with Duncan the other night. You would think that double teaming a center and keeping the ball out of his hands is the way to go. The problem is that we are not organized in our double teams. So when the center passes the ball back out we have people scrambling all over the place. This causes the center to gain position in the lane for either another pass to him, or what has cursed us against SA and Orlando, the shooter puts up a shot and the center has great position for a rebound. I say either fix our double team organization, and I’m not sure we are athletic or large enough for that, or just play the center straight up. I am sick of these guys getting gobs of rebounds against us. How long has Duncan been playing in this league, and he had the most rebounds he has ever had in his career. I.E. make Duncan and Howard beat you single handidly, keep the other guys quiet and concentrate on keeping the bigs off the boards and we will be OK.