Hawks Squawks: Magic 104, Hawks 86
This is a problem for the Hawks. (STEPHEN M. DOWELL, ORLANDO SENTINEL)
– Maybe it’s as simple as the Magic has Dwight Howard and the Celtics don’t. But that’s not very helpful in contemplating the Hawks’ chances should they draw the Magic in the playoffs.
– “This game is all about matchups, and I think we match up well with everyone but them,” J.J. said. “They pretty much have their way with us.”
—- Al’s not big enough to handle Howard. Jason Collins and Zaza aren’t quick enough. Woody’s schemes haven’t been effective enough. “We’ve got to figure it out,” Woody said. “We’ll go back and look at the tapes and see how we can do a better job against him at our place (for the final meeting on March 24). He’s a load down there.”
– “We don’t know what looks to throw at him,” Smoove said. “When we tried trapping him we had success with it, but I think we waited too late in the game to do it.”
– “They just have our number right now,” Al said. “We have to figure them out. We have to do a better job inside in the post, starting with me.”
– As it stands now, I don’t see the answer for the Hawks against the Magic. Neither does J.J.: “I am sure the coaches will come up with something but I don’t know what to do.”
– The trading deadline is approaching. So far all signs suggest the Hawks believe they are set with this group. Wonder if the possibility of Howard lifting the Magic to the division title and then dominating the Hawks should they meet in the postseason changes that thinking.
– Or maybe that would be an overreaction. Magic coach Stan Van Gundy wouldn’t bite when asked if the Magic has the Hawks’ number: “It’s not like a playoff series. I just don’t buy it. They’re coming in on a back-to-back. There’s just a lot of factors.”
– A legitimate footnote: the Magic twice has caught the Hawks on the second game of back-to-backs. That wouldn’t happen in the postseason. “I’m not blaming it on back-to-back games,” Woody said. “We’ve been fairly decent in back-to-back games but it’s just like the energy was sucked out of us in the third quarter.”
– The Hawks felt the officials didn’t help matters. They were called for 25 fouls to 15 for Orlando, and Howard attempted 18 free throws compared to the Hawks’ 20. “It’s tough to beat a great team like Orlando when you can’t get to the line,” Smoove said. “We were aggressive like they were aggressive.”
– Sure, the Hawks didn’t get calls against Howard. But is that ever going to change?
– Some guy named Ryan Anderson scored 16 off the bench for the Magic. Hawks reserves not named Jamal Crawford combined to score 11.
– That shooting foul called on Smoove against Jameer Nelson at the end of the half led to a five-point Magic lead instead of two. “I fouled him earlier (on the floor), and I thought they were going to call it,” Smoove said. “They didn’t, and then I bumped him again and they called it.”
– Woody got a technical after the buzzer. Nelson made the free throw to start the second half. The Hawks got within 57-54 on Mike Bibby’s 3-pointer but Howard had seven points during a 20-9 Magic run to close the period. “They picked it up defensively, and I don’t want to say fatigue set in but we looked very sluggish in the third quarter,” Woody said.
– At least Bibby was back to making open shots. But Jamal (6 of 17) was cold. Before the game, he was wistful about being an All-Star after the Celtics gave him some love.
– No more division lead for the Hawks. They did make it through a week that featured at Houston, at San Antonio vs. Boston and at Orlando at 2-2. “I’ll take it,” Al said. “This was a tough week. We obviously would have liked to have gone 3-1 but it was a good week.”
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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138 comments Add your comment
KevinA
January 31st, 2010
7:42 pm
There is always hope, Josh Childress numbers
8-11 for 19 pt’s, in todays game, increasing his ledgendary FG% to .670 for the year.
And yes we still own his rights.
richbrave
January 31st, 2010
7:49 pm
O’Brien
January 31st, 2010
7:32 pm
richbrave,
The Hawks need a grinder for the playoffs, because whenever a quality team forces us into a halfcourt game, we tend to struggle. Haywood would help us out there.
Would the Wiz take Marvin, ZaZa, and the rights to Chills for Haywood and Butler?
Really O’B1, I don’t know. Can’t tell how desperate GRUNFELD and the POLLIN’s are right now. You know the team and the phone booth are up for sale. The supposed transition owner(TED LEONSIS, a 44% minority owner) is playing cat-and-mouse on the sale price. ERNIE’s probably a lame-duck GM, so anything could happen. Hey, I’ll take the trade, but this is a definite salary-dump, so contract strings would absolutely queer the deal (no offense anyone, please).
Jody
January 31st, 2010
7:51 pm
I think the Hawks have to seriously consider making moves. It may not happen before the trade deadline, but in the offseason, they’ve got to. The other teams in the east are only going to get better. To stand pat would be to settle for less.
richbrave
January 31st, 2010
7:55 pm
Jody
January 31st, 2010
7:51 pm
I think the Hawks have to seriously consider making moves. It may not happen before the trade deadline, but in the offseason, they’ve got to. The other teams in the east are only going to get better. To stand pat would be to settle for less.
The WIZARDS are not going to be better until they get the kinds of picks that the HAWKS have gotten over the past few years. They will be the equivilent to an expansion team next year.
Kahman frm Clippers
January 31st, 2010
8:02 pm
I say try to make a trade for either C. Kahman or B. Haywood/J. MaGhee. MaGhee is a high jumping 7ft freak, he may not have an offensive game but could change shots on the defensive end. Getting those two from the wizards means they can both come off the bench, marvin may have to go but since he isnt scoring or stopping anyone who cares
Jody
January 31st, 2010
8:02 pm
richbrave,
I agree with you there. The Wizards face a major rebuilding project before they’ll be good again. However, there will be other teams that will make moves to advance themselves. What will the Hawks do? At some point you either get serious about winning a title or get out of the way of teams that are.
Melvin
January 31st, 2010
8:21 pm
Richbrave,
I could live with your trade of ZaZa,Marvin,Chills for Haywood/Butler if it works salary wise…
Doc,
In your trade scenario the Wiz would have to give up Haywood/Butler/McGee if we are going to give up Horford and parts… I agree, you have to give up something to get something but Haywood and maybe Butler best days are behind them unlike Horford. McGee is the wildcard that could return some value to the Hawks down the road… Hey, we can all dream right.
Also, I agree with Astro Joe that the biggest difference between us and other big three is on the bench and payroll. If the Hawks committ to spend more $$$$ in line with the big dogs then we could keep our current core and go after some quality beef for the bench. I wonder what it would take for the Pistons to send Kwame Brown home to GA…
In closing, this team currently constructed is not the far off from the Elite status. A little more orgaic growth, upgrade the bench (Chills, Haywood or Kwame) and I think the Hawks could compete with any team…
O'Brien
January 31st, 2010
8:51 pm
Boston lost, but Orlando beat the Pistons. That means SVG will be coaching the ASG.
Ray,
I proposed the Chills/ZaZa/Marvin for Haywood and Butler, but I did not think about the possible Chemistry issues.
If Butler is on the team, chemistry could be an issue, because he needs his shots, JJ and Crawford need their shots, and Al and Josh need their shots.
However, maybe he is willing to accept a lesser role, with the chance to win a championship, and he would provide another scoring threat (which Marvin is not), and he gives Woody another ISO option (we know how Woody likes ISOs).
Marvin provided great Chemistry (and much better defense than Butler), but too often he disappears.
I just dont know how the Hawks can beat the Magic or the Cavs in a 7 game series (especially the way refs tend to help out the other teams).
Jody
January 31st, 2010
9:00 pm
I think as some point the hawks have to acquire a player who has the skills that will force Joe Johnson to defer on offense. Other than Jamal, the Hawks don’t have a guy with the offensive game that Woodson respects enough to force Joe Johnson to share the ball more. As much as we love Josh Smith and Al Horford, they offensive game is not respected enough to make Joe Johnson defer, especially in the 4th quarter.
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
9:38 pm
I like that trade butler, haywood for marvin, zaza but you want to be careful because you dont want 2 mess up the chemistry 2 much.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
9:43 pm
doc – Seriously, did I read correctly. Surely you did not suggest Big Al
as part of that trade scenario.
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
9:44 pm
I remember back in the days when the hawks had dominique, and they broke up the team and let spud go randy witman go and tree rollins for reggie theus, and moses malone, and reggie was at the end of his career and moses, and everyone said the would win championship and nothing happen and it set the hawks back for 10 years so you have 2 be careful when trading young player for old.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
9:52 pm
I say trade our first for biedrins, or haywood and not give up 2 much keep the same player but add a big if we can, or maybe throw in evans with the first for a big.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Steven A.
January 31st, 2010
10:04 pm
TALENT, YES…HEART, NO.
ELITE TEAM? GIVE ME A BREAK? JOSH SMITH IS THE ONLY TRUE ALL-STAR ON THIS SQUAD,
STEVE WONDER CAN SEE THAT; WOODY IS HOLDING HIM BACK.
ONLY 2 PLAYERS WHO SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED IN A TRADE DEADLINE DEAL ARE
JOSH SMITH and JAMAL CRAWFORD. THE CURRENT SQUAD WILL NEVER GET PAST ORLANDO OR CLEVELAND.
BRING IN STOUDAMIRE …PLEASE
Horford, Mo Evans, and “Starvin Marvin”, starving for a consistent offensive game, should all be considered in any possible trade deadlind deal. Neither one of these guys will show up when it matters MOST. Zsa Zsa would be better served in hollywood with one of the GABOR sisters with his non-exsistent and dissappering game. STICK A FORK IN RANDMO, he’s done at the end of this season.
ALSO GM…PLEASE BRING CHILL BACK!
doc
January 31st, 2010
10:04 pm
grandpa, you got to give up something and it sure would stop the biacthing around here if we get a center, al is gone, along with marvin to get a real center (with similar numbers) and a 3 (again with similar numbers). just putting it out there because the team with some valuable players having a firesale is the wiz so that seemed the logical place to go. some folks were trying to package haywood and butler to a ligit team, just saying why not us? as someone pointed out marvin really makes 8 mil but he is only worth 4 mil in a trade this year due to cba so it is not feasible.
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
10:04 pm
1st of all guys, too many changes are not what we need. like Big Ray said, “chemistry”. Also, don’t be so quick to throw Zaza around in trade talk. Zaza is valuable. If we could pick up BH then don’t try to make it into a blockbuster. Keep it simple. If Mr Sund can steal him
[as he did Jamal] then fine.
Another thing, someone said , BH would slow us down and we need to run. Yes we need to run, but the 1st thing you must have to run is possession of the ball. BH = blocked shots and rebounds.
Wdsn. is who slows us down. Plus the pace will ultimately slow in the play-offs anyway. We need a big in the middle for defense.
However, Who’s to say Wdsn would understand how to utilize another weapon in his arsenal.
If your thinking blockbuster, then you need to be thinking Joe and Chi.
darrell starks – Joakim Noah ? I’m kinda like Big Ray, I’ve got one swirling around in my head…I may unleash it on you guys in the next day or two just to see what kind of reaction would be stirred up.
Whew !
I’m gonna be like Clyde and start a new mantra:
Start Teaguer !
doc
January 31st, 2010
10:06 pm
melvin the window is always now if you can get the ring.
Ken Strickland
January 31st, 2010
10:11 pm
VALVA74-realistically, you don’t stop a player like DHoward. You try to neutralize him and/or force him to work extra hard to have an impact. RMorris could have used his polished inside moves and scoring ability to present DHoward with some DEF challenges. It’s no secret that Howard is very active, physical and foul prone.
If Woodson wasn’t so damned ridged and unimaginative in his approach to coaching, he might actually get the idea to create some mismatches that favor us. He could create an effective mismatch by playing a bigger, stronger RMorris @ PF against RLewis. Do you think Lewis could handle Morris in the post? Why not play JSmith @ SF and force a much smaller MBarnes to try and defend him? Does anyone think Lewis, Petry, Barnes or Anderson could handle RMorris, Joe or Josh Smith in the paint? Since Woody’s switching DEF forces our Bigs to play smaller players out on the perimeter anyway, how would Smoove, Morris or JSmith be at a disadvantage defensively?
WHY CONTINUE BEING STUPID AND COMMITTING YOUR ENTIRE DEF STRATEGY TO STOPPING DHOWARD, WHICH HAS YET TO WORK? FORCE THEM TO ADJUST TO US. Woodson stubbornly and stupidly continues to use an ineffective switching DEF against Orlando to cover for Bibby, which he insists on giving the bulk of the mins at PG. You’d think he’d have sense enough to try changing the pace at least occasionally by playing a much quicker, faster JTeague, who penetrates and is defensively superior. Playing Teague would give you the DEF you don’t get from Bibby and the OFF you don’t get from West.
STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES, EVEN IF STUPID DOES NOTHING.
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
10:11 pm
doc:
I agree with your premis.
My contention is that Big Al is ‘untouchable’.
Other than that, no problem with your logic.
JeJe
January 31st, 2010
10:15 pm
GOOD JOB WOODY.
IF U HAD BEATEN NEW YORK 1 OF 2 TIMES AT HOME, OR THE PATHETIC PISTONS WHEN THEY WERE WITHOUT B.GORDON, HAMILTON, AND PRINCE, U COULD’VE COACHED THE ALL STAR GAME.
U ARE A CRAPPY COACH WHO DOES NOT USE THE BENCH IN CLOSE GAMES AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ONE OF THE WORST HALF COURT OFFENSES IN NBA HISTORY. THE WHOLE NATION WILL SEE IN THE 2ND ROUND WHEN WE ARE SWEPT AGAIN, YOU PATHETIC JOKE
Melvin
January 31st, 2010
10:17 pm
Darell Starks,
You do know there are rules that exist in the NBA in regards to the salary cap which governs how a team trade, sign or aquire players? In other words, the Hawks can not acquire Biedrins (9mil/yr) or Haywood (6mil/yr) for a 1st round pick. You may want to use the trade machine on ESPN website to see if your trade scenario works before suggesting them…
O'Brien
January 31st, 2010
10:23 pm
I do think one interesting note is whether or not JJ will resign with the Hawks. I think we’re all thinking that JJ will resign with the Hawks as long as the money is comparable. I sure hope he stays, because if he leaves, the Hawks will take a step back.
But if there is a move to be made to make us more competitive in the playoffs, the Hawks need to make it. We dont know what next year might bring.
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
10:24 pm
Ken Strickland:
If I may. Continuing your thought process, how about putting our athletes out there and see if Orl. can catch us? Understanding that Teague needs to be on the floor, ala Spud Webb, pushing it! Make them play at a pace at which they are uncomfortable.
You are correct, Wdsn. is so enamored with stopping DH,
he fails to see all the assets we have that are available to him.
Plus he coaches scared.
Jody
January 31st, 2010
10:26 pm
Protecting chemistry is important, but becoming a titile contender should be more important for the Hawks.
Jody
January 31st, 2010
10:29 pm
O’brien,
Exactly. I think the Hawks should be more concerned with contending than with who’s name or who’s name is not on the back of the jersey.
doc
January 31st, 2010
10:39 pm
grandad the anti-horford’s didnt even bite on that one. just the same haywood contributes about as much when it comes to numbers as al does. yes, it would change how we play other teams as he wont rebound and get out and get the dunk on the other end. unfortunately that doesnt work with the magic either. would butler make up the difference in athleticism or is his defense worse than marvin?
funny just two days ago i was in a “spirited” conversation taking the stance if you allow josh and al to stay together they would rank with some of the great all time big combos. al doesnt have it when it comes to howard plain and simple and if that is who we have to go through every time then that will always be true. just want to know where you are headed and what you want as a hawks fan.
Melvin
January 31st, 2010
11:01 pm
Doc,
I’m not ready to jumpship with Horford yet. Maybe we can have AL get some pointers from Bill Russell. After all, he had to defend against the giant Wilt Chamberlain. Horford maybe undersize but he has a big heart and not afraid of Superman. I think he’s very cerebral and will figure out a way to use the krytonite against Superman. You gotta love his post game comments. Shows that he’s a true leader, warrior and not affraid of the Giant.
“They just have our number right now,” Al said. “We have to figure them out. We have to do a better job inside in the post, starting with me.””
KevinA
January 31st, 2010
11:10 pm
Works on the trade machine.
Carl Landry ……….3,000,000
Tracy McGrady….23,000,000
Aaron Brooks……2,000,000 = 28,694,371
Marvin Williams…6.7,000,000
Joe Johnson……..15,000,000
Bibby……………..5.6,000,000..=26,961,644
There is no guarentee JJ will be back next summer. The cap will be lower next year. There is no guarentee we will be able to afford to give Jamal, Al and Jamal raises they will want. Laundry and Brooks give us youth and speed to match Al and Josh and give us the point guard we never had.
Assuming McGrady plays bad (he may play great) it would weaken our bench but with Jamal/McGrady starting but we would have the maybe the most atheltic starting 5 in the league at a cheap price.
McGrady would leave at the end of the next year leaving the Hawks with 15+ million in salary space.
Housten would like the deal because of getting JJ for McGrady. JJ might even sign with Houston and get paid pay more than Atlanta would next year. Ming, Bibby and JJ all play better in a 1/2 court game.
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
11:17 pm
Personally, I like Al as a [4] and I’m of the mind set that Josh can be
a monster [3]. Think, Artest, I understand he can’t shoot. But, CB from Wash. is not a great shooter either.
Two things would need to occur: 1. A coach who could utilize Josh’s
magnificent athleticism in an offensive scheme taylored to fit not only his skill set but Al as well. 2. A long defensive minded [5] to insert
into the lineup.(Noah,Biedrins,Haywood,McGee,etc.)
I personally think Mr. Sund is going to build around Al and Josh.
I do not see Joe as a Hawk next yr. Although that is not my wish.
I think Jamal has found a home in Atl.
Teague needs to start now. Wdsn has already caused this kid damage.
As currently constructed we will not get beyond 2nd round. [Wdsn]
Stern will not let us advance even if Wdsn suddenly has an epiphany
and develops an offensive strategery. [re Mr. Bush]
darrell starks
January 31st, 2010
11:17 pm
You guys kill me with this trade machine
HAWKS PAYROLL 65MILL
LAKER PAYROLL 90MILL and if the laker say let go get so and so they do it and increase payroll 100mill who care about payroll if you can do it and aford luxury tax do it.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
11:25 pm
Melvin – With all due respect, one cannot compare Al to BR.
Conversely, DH is not Wilt.
Also, DH is not a giant by any stretch.
DH: 6-10+, 7+ wingspan, now that body???
DH & LeBron, seriously, does the NBA [Stern] test?
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
11:26 pm
darrell starks:
There are some ins and outs.
However, we have the wherewithall to get it done.
I’m with you!!!
Go Hawks!
Grandad
January 31st, 2010
11:49 pm
My 11:17PM post was in response to doc. Sorry, forgot to mention that.
doc
February 1st, 2010
1:40 am
supposedly houston is interested in haywood and butler together. that is why i brought up those two names in particular together since we could use some help or upgrades at both positions to beat orlando. it was hypothetical since those positions night in and night out are sen as weaknesses. al has been humbled recently by the best in howard and duncan within the past week. i have a feeling bynum will do something similar to him as well. as much as i like al, i dont know if a 10/10 guy undersized with motor is untouchable on my team, if i know i can get better. no, heywood is probably not that guy either.
Grandad
February 1st, 2010
2:04 am
doc:
Glad I checked back in.
Al has intangibles that are not readily seen in stats.
As far as points, Al and Josh would score more without Joe dominating the ball. Plus true point guard. Not to mention an offensive system
with plays designed to get Al And Josh + even Marv the ball in spots
where they could comfortably score without pounding the ball.
Last item – Al has emerged as the leader of this team.
Kinda like, ‘Al is the heart and Josh is the soul’.
Doggone, I need to coin that one.
Grandad
February 1st, 2010
2:08 am
‘a’ true pt. guard.
Ken Strickland
February 1st, 2010
10:31 am
If we made a trade that would give us BHeywood at C instead of AHorford, would Heywood be able to defend PG’s and SG’s out on the perimeter as well as Horford? You know as long as Bibby isn’t blind, cripple or certifiably crazy he’ll be Woody’s starting PG. And Woody will continue playing his beloved switching DEF to try and cover for Bibby’s matador DEF.
Duluth Danny
February 1st, 2010
3:05 pm
We need to stop double teaming centers that we feel inferior to. Same thing happend with Duncan the other night. You would think that double teaming a center and keeping the ball out of his hands is the way to go. The problem is that we are not organized in our double teams. So when the center passes the ball back out we have people scrambling all over the place. This causes the center to gain position in the lane for either another pass to him, or what has cursed us against SA and Orlando, the shooter puts up a shot and the center has great position for a rebound. I say either fix our double team organization, and I’m not sure we are athletic or large enough for that, or just play the center straight up. I am sick of these guys getting gobs of rebounds against us. How long has Duncan been playing in this league, and he had the most rebounds he has ever had in his career. I.E. make Duncan and Howard beat you single handidly, keep the other guys quiet and concentrate on keeping the bigs off the boards and we will be OK.