Thunder at Hawks, AKA Kevin Durant: Dat Boy Good
– Woody says Thunder forward Kevin Durant should be considered for MVP: “His numbers are ridiculous right now.”
– Indeed. Durant has scored 30-plus in five straight games, including 36 in Oklahoma City’s 98-80 victory against the Heat Saturday. Miami coach Erik Spoelstra has seen enough:
“I’m glad that we don’t play (the Thunder) again this year,” Spoelstra told The Oklahoman. “Give us some time to figure him out. He is so big and skilled and can shoot it over the top of you. Even if you are there, he doesn’t even notice you. When he shoots it like he did (Saturday), it just makes it that much tougher. He has grown a lot. I remember in his rookie year, he was nothing like this.”
– Zaza is back.
– Jamal Crawford is quoted in an MLK Day/NBA piece in the Contra Costa Times:
“For the most part, players of this generation try to treat everyone equal no matter their color or gender. … Try to respect one another. There are still situations in life we can improve on, but overall, I think Dr. King would be proud of how far we’ve come.”
– Pretty ho-hum field announced for the All-Star Slam Dunk competition: Shannon Brown, Nate Robinson, Gerald Wallace plus the winner of a “dunk-in” between DeMar DeRozan and Eric Gordon.
Smoove, slam dunk winner as a rookie in 2005, still says he’s done with it for good. Can’t blame him. He’d rather be an All-Star.
– Fire alarm went off in Philips Arena before the game. Joe Johnson ducked in Woody’s office to see if he should panic. Told that he shouldn’t, J.J. told the coach and reporters: “Y’all gonna burn up by yourself.”
– Super commenter northcyde took issue with my critique of the Hawks’ switching D against the Suns. He (you’re a dude, right?) notes that Steve Nash didn’t get his usual numbers and credits the defensive strategy for that. Says northcyde: “It was a great defensive game plan that will go unnoticed by traditional basketball fans that feel that a guard should always be matched up against a guard.”
Well, I don’t think it always has to be that way, but northcyde make some good points. Props.
– After the Hawks overcame a four-point deficit in the final six seconds against the Suns Friday, the Elias Sports Bureau says the last team to come back from a four-point deficit with six or less to win was the Lakers. The did it with four seconds left against the Heat on Dec. 24.
– I see you are accustomed to an open game thread, so talk amongst yourselves.
MC
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217 comments Add your comment
Melvin
January 18th, 2010
4:37 pm
bigdave,
I hear ya but he has to sale the foul. forget trying to make the shot. make sure you get the refs to blow his whistle by throwing your body, hands, yelling or even flopping to get the refs attention…
O'Brien
January 18th, 2010
4:38 pm
KD played 39 minutes. Joe Johnson played 46 minutes. I’m not a basketball player, but correct me if I’m wrong.
When you play that many minutes, doesn’t that make you physically and mentally tired? And when you’re tired, its easy to take bad shots (like JJ is known to do in the 4th and down the stretch, especially when he’s dead tired).
And our defense played well in the 4th, because OKC only scored 15 points. So I’m sure Woody is pleased with that. Unfortunately, our offense only scored 16 points. Woody, get an (offensive) clue.
Samuel,
Scott Brooks for COY?
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2010
4:38 pm
LOL @ Najeh.
If Al didn;t rotate to save his 6th foul, that was a very bad mistake. A mental error by someone who doesn’t make many mental errors.
Thunder move to 15-4 against the East this season.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
January 18th, 2010
4:39 pm
from now until the all star break and the west coast swing directly afterwards will probably tell us all we need to know about the Hawks,
Melvin
January 18th, 2010
4:39 pm
16 pts, in the 4th. I wonder if Woody still not worried about the offense….
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
4:43 pm
Melvin…
sure… but hey, i cant fault him for not thinking about the whistle. you would think he could just focus on the shot without trying to play the role of ref or actor… i just would like to see him get a consistent whistle. its not a matter of explosiveness, Paul Peirce lost his years ago… Durant got touch whistles… if there was contact, body or follow through… blow the whistle.
Wabe
January 18th, 2010
4:45 pm
Offensive execution was horrible. Losses are always disappointing, but losses at home just p!ss me off.
We played solid DEF and forced the Thunder to make tough jumpers, but we lost this game because once again, we were ice cold to start the 4th. If we had come out shooting a higher % to start the 4th, we would’ve probably ended up cruising to another W.
cp
January 18th, 2010
4:45 pm
Add Jeff Green to the list of guys I would rather have than Marvin.
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
4:46 pm
Bench was 6-27. We won’t win many that way.
Guards were 4-15 from 3. We wont win many that way.
Crawford saved us on Friday, but hurt us today.
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
4:50 pm
i dont want to hear another thing about Joe being selfish or “hating Jamal”… he clearly deferred to and looked for Jamal late, all the while making plays and shots helping the Hawks cause.
jay dubu
January 18th, 2010
4:53 pm
The Hawks have the players to be an upper echolon team, but they thy need an offensive identity. I read the nice article of the reporter who followed the Hawks for a couple of days, and how Woody stressed defense. That’s good and well, but how much does the opposing team have to stress defense, if you’re only bringing ISO plays.
I’ve seen too many 4th quarters from the Hawks where they can not score a basket. The coaching staff has to put something in place to help eliminate these types of 4th quarters. Either you’re not getting key guys enough rest, or you need an offensive play other than ISO Joe, or clear one side of the court and let Crawford go one on one. That’s good until the defese adjusts, or the player you’re going to gets tired…but then what.
I like Woodson, and I hope he continues to learn on the job, but there as to be some new schemes put in place asap.
You can’t continue to loose games that you should win, and not expect it to take a toll mentally on the players first, as well as the fans.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
January 18th, 2010
4:57 pm
The hawks will be inconsistent until they:
1) Get some kind of nice-to-decent offensive scheme/playbook
2) Get more players that fit better into woodson’s ISO one on one style of offense…..
going into the 4th…depending on a tired Joe Johnson and an offensively challenged Josh Smith (in one on one…dribble drive situations) is just not going to cut it
Get Woodson out of here or get more players in that fit his “system”
J.J.M.
January 18th, 2010
4:59 pm
I posted this on mark blog
Joe will only and always be a all-star. He will never be a super star. hes not consistent like a kobe or wade. I would consider trading joe for chris bosh and let crawford start…there’s no way teams will double crawford leaving bosh one on one with players…only thing bad bout this bosh might nog re-sign with the hawks and hawks will end up with nothing but last time i check bosh played for ga tech right?
Ken Strickland
January 18th, 2010
5:03 pm
All of you WOODY LOVERS who think he deserves to be COY need only look at HC Scott Brooks to see what a real COY candidate is all about. He used strategy, made ajustments, PLAYED HIS ROOKIES and used his bench effectively and extensively. He’s managed to do more with his team in approximately 1yr(spread over 2seasons) than Woodson managed to do his 1st 4yrs. And nobody can say he’s had far more talent to work with than Woody had, because Brooks inherited the 1st or 2nd youngest and least experienced team in the NBA. He’s just done a much better job of developing and utilizing the young talent he’s had than Woodson, especially rookie talent.
Having said that, Woodson did an overall good job of coaching today. We lost this gm because of our extremely limited halfcourt OFF, which is something I’ve been harping on all yr. I guess those who’ve complained about those of us who’ve make an issue of the team and Woodson’s shortcomings, will once again pretend not to notice the ineptitude of Woodson’s halfcourt OFF.
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
5:04 pm
big dave,
about this:
“i dont want to hear another thing about Joe being selfish or “hating Jamal”… he clearly deferred to and looked for Jamal late, all the while making plays and shots helping the Hawks cause.”
No hate here. Only the facts. Joe had more shots in the 4th quarter than any other Hawk including Jamal.
Fourth Quarter shooting stats:
JJ – 2-7
JC – 0-6
MB – 1-4
MW – 0-1
JS – 1-2, 2-2 FT
AH – 1-1
Looks like our guards should have looked inside a little more.
I’ll say it again. We need to start feeding Josh and Al with the game on the line. That crucible is the only way they will grow into what we need them to be to reach a Championship.
little dave
January 18th, 2010
5:15 pm
im sick of hearing jjs tired.its just hes really not that good
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
January 18th, 2010
5:16 pm
It would pay off to feed Al, but I dont know about Josh Smith.
his post game is so weak with his back to the basket (not to mention free throw woes)….I dont trust one of his wild hook shots to go in any more than a Joe or Crawford jumper…
Big Ray
January 18th, 2010
5:19 pm
Didn’t get to see anything beyond the first quarter, but the box score tells a familiar tale. I’ll watch the rest of the game on DVR to see how much the box score really told. Observations early on showed the Thunder outhustling us. Then there’s the rest:
Hmmmm, Joe takes as many shots as Josh and Al combined.
I would have said that our advantage was in the paint against this team, but I guess two guys going 12 for 23 from the field wasn’t convincing. Meanwhile, our top 3 backcourt players were a scorching 19 for 47, with Jamal being the worst culprit. Gotta love a guard-heavy, jump-shot happy offense.
They won the battle of the boards thanks to some guy named Ibaka. What’s an Ibaka? I don’t know, but it sure knows how to rebound.
We didn’t show the maturity that they one day hope to attain. If we don’t find a way to stay focused, we will lose more games like this one. Good thing they don’t play in the East.
Big Ray
January 18th, 2010
5:23 pm
his post game is so weak with his back to the basket (not to mention free throw woes)….I dont trust one of his wild hook shots to go in any more than a Joe or Crawford jumper…
Josh Smith today: 18 points, 12 boards, 7 assists, 3 blocks, 6-6 from the charity stripe, 6-11 from the field.
He doesn’t have to have his back to the basket. He scores by charging to the basket. Call it what you want, but the guy is shooting over 50% from the field this season. It must all be by accident, huh?
buick59
January 18th, 2010
5:26 pm
this is why no one takes this team seriously.
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
5:28 pm
Big Ray,
You beat me to it.
terrell
January 18th, 2010
5:30 pm
Chill out everybody. Cant win em all. Orlando will loe at LA tonight. Nio big deal. We played hard. The shots just weren’t falling. Not to mention OKC was on fire in the 1st half. Coulda fed Horfor more, but not disappointed in the effort today. And btw, OKC is pretty d… good.
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
5:31 pm
Think about this:
We are an answered prayer away from having a two game home losing streak.
SOMEBODY needs to give a sh!t about offense.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
January 18th, 2010
5:31 pm
I dont question or doubt Josh Smith’s rebounding, passing ability or overall hustle out there. He gets alot of his points from dunks, put backs off offensive boards, wild plays from hustling to loose balls, etc.
but in the half court, Josh Smith isnt a guy you can just dump the ball down to and expect consistent results……pointing out his 6-6 from the line today is useless….considering he isnt good from the line USUALLY…..
I wouldnt mind the guards throwing it down to Horford more though.
terrell
January 18th, 2010
5:38 pm
That prayer was answered Sautee, so it does’t matter. I’ll take 1-1 vs. Phoenix and OKC. Think about this: We had a chance to win BOTH games after being down early. A couple of years ago, those kinda games would be over at halftime. At least they’re fighting till the end.I’ll give em that much. And btw, where in the hell is Jeff Teague. And one more thing, I think it’s time to give Morris some burn. Pachulia is awful.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
January 18th, 2010
5:40 pm
How many games has Josh Smith took over offensively…that wasnt uptempo, didnt involve a bunch of high flying dunks OR wasnt one of those wild, sloppy games???
In the playoffs the game slows down which is what kills the hawks, I’m not all for the guards shootings jumpers all day (not for it all all really), but if you guys think we’re just gonna get in the half court then toss it down to josh and expect consistent results IN THAT MANNER….then you’ve also got another thing coming. His hook shots or whatever he throws up while attempting to post up someone are just as wild and often bricks like his jumpers…..and even if he gets fouled it’s not like the points at the line are guaranteed..with his poor free throw shootings….
like I said..I respect the man’s bassing ability, rebounding, defense and hustle….lol but one of the answers to solving the offensive woes is not simply dumping it down to josh more….maybe horford…def. not josh though
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
January 18th, 2010
5:42 pm
passing*
terrell
January 18th, 2010
5:44 pm
Woody’s back to his 6 or 7 man rotations. Sund cant be happy with that. Where’s Morris? Where’s Joe Smith? Where’s Teague? Better get these guys ready for the Playoffs Woody. Ever heard of injuries?
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
January 18th, 2010
5:55 pm
We all have to admit…no matter if we agree on the remedy strategy or not….Woodson’s one on one offensive “scheme” is not gonna cut it,.
terrell
January 18th, 2010
5:55 pm
Here comes Charlotte. They’ve won 5 in a row and sit 5th in the East. That Jackson trade was huge.
Loserville USA
January 18th, 2010
5:56 pm
Another unintelligent performance by a group of immature athletes.
Unless they stop losing to Oklahoma City, New York, etc by taking DUMB outside shots they will NEVER compete for an NBA title. Every time Woody treats them like adults they revert back to being children. No critical thinking on the court — EVER.
richbrave
January 18th, 2010
6:04 pm
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2010
9:27 am
Ray, my apologies… but I think the Thunder will own a 15=point lead (at a minimum) today.
Vava, I think it is in their DNA. And feeling like they can now win close games probably won’t help their drive to take care of business by the mid-3rd quarter.
Check out Eric Maynor today… another guy I lobbied for pre-draft (along with Dajuan Blair). He doesn’t have much flair… he’s old school like an Eric Snow type.
MANNY T:
RICHMOND has a point guard from ATLANTA that’s excellent as well. A junior named KEVIN ANDERSON. Averaging about 20 a game this year. Although about 5′11′ he’s definitely got game. He tore up LaSALLE in our last game. He’s so good I’ve started going to ATLANTIC CITY for the A-10 tournament in March just to see him play. Last year and this coming.
cp
January 18th, 2010
6:06 pm
Once again Marvin gives us pretty much nothing. I don’t know who has had more games with less production this year him or Bibby. Its time to explore some trade options with Marvin. Whenever he has a chance to step up or get aggressive he does nothing. I don’t want to hear about his age, how he is being used here, or he still has potential. Get somebody at the sf position who is going to show up nightly. If Travis Outlaw was not hurt I would try to trade Marvin for him straight up. Marvin will be 30 and people will still be talking about his potential and this other crap. Ive seen more fire out of Mario in 3 games than I have seen out of Marvin all year and I’m not even a Mario fan.
Ken Strickland
January 18th, 2010
6:08 pm
We have only 2 players that can be consistently effective playing penetrating one on one, ISO basketball. Those 2 players are JCrawford and JTeague, and Woodson has Teague under strict control, while using him sparingly. JJ is a good one on one, ISO player, but he lacks the speed and quickness to be effective consistently.
We simply don’t have the type of individual talent needed to play Woodson’s preferred jumpshooting, one on one, ISO style of ball. But, regardless of that fact, he insists on making that the basis of his halfcourt OFF, and certain players and the team continue to suffer as a result.
When an individual’s understanding of what constitutes an effective halfcourt OFF is limited, you can expect the actual halfcourt OFF designed by that individual to be equally limited. It’s much easier for Woodson to state he doesn’t care about OFF than to admit his knowledge is very limited.
How many of you WOODY LOVERS think we’d be 26-14 at this point if Scott Brooks was our HC? Bringing in Green or any other player to replace Marvin won’t make a damned bit of difference if Woodson and Bibby exclude him from the OFF like they do Marvin, as well as Horford for that matter.
Our starting PG was tied with C AHorford for 4th on the team in assists with 4. As active, mobile and athletic as our frontline is, we need a PG that does more than stand on the perimeter shooting jumpshots, or passing to jumpshooting teammates. We need a PG that can penetrate, breakdown the DEF and score or create easy scoring opportunities for others. How often have we seen the Hawks DEF victimized by guards who penetrate on us and score or pass to an open player?
WE CAN DO BETTER THAN WOODSON AND HIS EXTREMELY LIMITED HALFCOURT, ISO, ONE ON ONE OFF.
terrell
January 18th, 2010
6:13 pm
Loserville, you cant be serious. Evidentally you dont watch too much basketball. The Knicks can beat anybody when they get hot. And OKC is one of the best young teams in the league. And like my man said, who you gonna go inside to, besides Al? We definitely should feed him more, but I dont trust Smoove’s hook no more than I trust a jumper from the guards at this point.
Loserville USA
January 18th, 2010
6:24 pm
Terrell — they don’t play inside enough and use their athleticism to go to the line.
Why shoot 3s all the time when you’re down by 2?
And I do watch a lot of basketball man, and whether OTHER teams are young and good you need to hold serve AT HOME against these teams who are STILL INFERIOR to you.
And by the way, NO ONE should get a nickname until they’ve done something. Anything. Smith takes games off and gets into foul trouble. He b!tches at the refs so they usually give him nothing.
This team is 3-0 against Boston because in their SMALL MINDS they get fired up.
Against Oklahoma City and New York they mailed it in.
It is a very immature team at this point.
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
6:37 pm
If Josh is SO erratic around the hoop with his post ups, then explain how he’s shooting over .50%? To me, it seems that most of his misses are long jumpers just inside the 3 point line. How is he missing so many of those, and so many post up shots and still shooting .50%?
Answer: Perception, not Reality.
Blast
January 18th, 2010
6:37 pm
Josh said it best. Hawks were complacent coming into the game, they thought they could turn it on and off. Obviously OKC is too good for that. Worrying thought. Hawks have been playing from behind last few games and managing to win but it caught up with them tonite. Hope they learn a lesson from it. They were lucky versus Phoenix.
Two consolations:
1. Teams have to play really hard and really well to beat the Hawks, and OKC did that.
2. Hawks tied with Majic for division lead. Magic plays at LA tonight. LA goes on a long 8 game road trip after tonite. Magic has been slumping on the road. So, let’s hope LA brings it tonite and beat orlando.
Now I’m gonna go back and read the comments.
Go Hawks, Go!
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
6:42 pm
Ken Strickland,
“As active, mobile and athletic as our frontline is, we need a PG that does more than stand on the perimeter shooting jumpshots, or passing to jumpshooting teammates. We need a PG that can penetrate, breakdown the DEF and score or create easy scoring opportunities for others.”
Actually we ALSO need a freakin’ system that would value those very things. If we don’t have a system, then today’s 4th quarter will always rear it’s ugly head.
Loserville USA
January 18th, 2010
6:46 pm
Actually, when you’re 19-3 when you lead at halftime and you’re 7-11 when you’re not, it’s easy to see WHEN THE HAWKS COME TO PLAY.
Today, down 51-48 at the half.
BRICK CITY.
DUMB SHOTS.
LOSS.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 18th, 2010
6:54 pm
The Hawks are 15-12 after their 11-2 start.
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
6:56 pm
Mac-Town,
I’m reallynot trying to start something about Josh. It’s OK if you don’t appreciate him to the degree some of us do. But I’ve go to point something out.
You said this:
“In the playoffs the game slows down which is what kills the hawks, I’m not all for the guards shootings jumpers all day (not for it all all really), but if you guys think we’re just gonna get in the half court then toss it down to josh and expect consistent results IN THAT MANNER….then you’ve also got another thing (sic) coming.”
Mac-Town you DO realize that Josh was our leading scorer in the playoffs, don’t you?
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
6:57 pm
Najeh,
Well THERE’S some perspective.
Jody
January 18th, 2010
7:00 pm
If this team in SO intent on winning a title without a superstar, then a LEGITIMATE third scoring option is needed. I’m talking about a guy who can manufacture points on the offensive end either at or above the level of Joe Johnson or Jamal Crawford.
Right now, Josh Smith is playing that role, and honestly, that’s just not his game. Don’t get me wrong, I really appreciate what Josh brings and what he does on the floor and it is CRUCIAL to the success of this team. However, the Hawks need another guy who can get it done consistently night in and night out. A guy that both Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford could play off of. Unfortunately, that guy is not currently on this roster.
cp
January 18th, 2010
7:07 pm
Upgrade the sf position and get another big in here who can rebound and block some shots. Our rebounding has really slacked off since the start of the season. And Bibby continues to look older as each game passes. He couldn’t guard a lawn chair at this point. And like many have already stated, when you don’t care about the offense shid like today happens. Come playoff time when the game is slowed down and we have to play half-court we are going to be in trouble.
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
7:17 pm
Sautee…
my comment wasnt about hating on Joe, it was the “Joe hates Jamal talk” that pops up regularly here. you watched the game right… dont recall moments in the 4th (including critical possessions) Joe usually takes it upon himself to do everything, score play make; he looked to feed Jamal. as far as your stating the facts… 2-7/0-6 what a difference of 1 shot? im sure you wouldnt have preferred another miss?
Just Saying
January 18th, 2010
7:25 pm
So the Hawks are not better than Oklahoma City but can beat the Celtics and Suns same week? Too many ups and downs with this team and season will end with another down in the playoffs.
We are a REAL head coach away from the next level.
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
7:35 pm
big dave,
My point was that with all of Joe’s “deferring” he STILL took the most shots.
To me, if Jamal took 6 and Joe took 7, he wasn’t deferring, he was sharing.
If he took fewer shots than another teammate, then I’d say he was deferring.
And maybe that’s all semantics, but THAT’S how I’d define “deferring”
But my main point was that maybe the guards all should have “deferred” to Al and Josh in the 4th quarter.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
January 18th, 2010
7:37 pm
Sautee, so you believe Josh Smith can be a go to guy down on the block???? I’ll believe it when I see it.
Josh Smith is at his best running and gunning, up and down the floor. I havent saw anything from him that makes me comfortable in a half court set.
I see of bunch of trying to beat guys off the dribble (a definite NO!!!) and a bunch of ugly shot attempts while in the post barely drawing iron.
I’d rather have horford sorry…better FG % and Free throw %…better ball handling…better mid ranged jumper from what I can tell
O'Brien
January 18th, 2010
7:39 pm
“Upgrade the sf position” cp
This offseason when Marvin’s contract was up, I thought it was a good idea for Sund to resign him. At the time, I wasn’t sure what to think about his contract though, 5 years, $37.5 mil. But looking back, I think Sund bid against himself and overpaid. No other playoff team would give Marvin that kind of money, and the teams under the cap wouldn’t give him that much either.
I used to have this discussion with Rod from CP as to whether or not Marvin was a top 15 SF. But now that I think about it, he is barely top 20. I was looking at the list of SFs in the league, and in no particular order, these are SFs I would take over Marvin.
Pierce, Gerald Wallace, Luol Deng, LeBron , Carmelo, Ariza, Granger, Al Thornton, Artest, Rudy Gay, Durant, Mickael Pietrus, Matt Barnes, Grant Hill, Hedo, Richard Jefferson, Josh Childress, and Caron Butler. That’s 18 SFs that (I think) would have the same impact on this team that Marvin does. Maybe Rod from CP is right.
Sure, Marvin has talent, and he does have a good game here and there, and flashes here and there. But overall, he has been a big disappointment. But we have him for 4 more years, and he is a Hawk, so I will root for him to turn it around.