Hawks squawks: Thunder 94, Hawks 91
– Did the Hawks not realize the Thunder would come out and play hard? It’s pretty much what that team is known for. Well, that and Kevin Durant’s sick skills.
– Durant had 29 points but that wasn’t really the problem for the Hawks. “We got outworked it seemed like in every aspect of the game,” said Josh Smith.
– I thought the Thunder would give the Hawks problems because of their scrappy, relentless style. So did Woody: “You try to alert your guys to get them ready. I thought we just thought we were going to show up and beat them.”
–The Thunder built a 15-point lead by relentlessly attacking the basket. The Hawks got back in it with stronger resistance at the rim and good work on the boards.
– The Hawks showed defensive grit in the fourth quarter. But the ball movement and shot selection were weak, so the Hawks never could gain the lead even as the Thunder suffered its own offensive drought.
– “We limited them to one shot, got a couple steals here and there, capitalized on turnovers, but down the stretch we didn’t make shots,” said Marvin Williams.
– “We should have kept going inside-out,” Smith said. “It would have opened up the 3-point shot.”
– Um, maybe that’s not such a good thing, though. The Hawks clanked 7 of 8 3-point attempts in the fourth quarter. “Those are shots that guys on this team normally take in the fourth quarter,” Smith said.
– Mike Bibby missed three consecutive wide open 3-pointers in the fourth quarter. Jamal Crawford missed all three of his attempts, including the potential tying shot at the buzzer.
– “When you’re making them, they look good,” Woody said. “When you are not making them, you have to get to the rim and try to at least get to the free throw line, and we just didn’t do it.”
– I get the feeling I’m going to be writing that again and again over the next few weeks, so let me just go ahead and copy and paste.
– Smoove was great with 18 points, 12 rebounds and seven assists. If only his teammates matched his energy.
– He sparked the Hawks when they got back in the game before halftime. He blocked Jeff Green’s shot and fed Al Horford for a layup the other way, dunked on the next Hawks possession and found Bibby with a nice crosscourt pass for a 3-pointer.
– Bibby and Smith worked the pick-and-roll nicely early. The Thunder had to stop trapping Bibby. Swatting at the ball as Smith took a dribble proved to be more effective. He’s a beast when he gets to the rim but sometimes awkward on the way there.
– Jeff Teague got some early burn. If you saw how scary athletic the Thunder is, even in comparison to the Hawks, you understand why.
–Zaza, back after missing two games with flu-like symptoms, had five boards in five minutes during his first stint and finished with nine in 15 minutes. His toughness was needed with Horford in foul trouble.
–It seemed like the Thunder was beating the Hawks to every loose ball for a while. Durant and Co. really made the Hawks work.
–Hawks had seven turnovers in first half. Precise passing is a must against Oklahoma City, which is always swiping at the ball and diving for it when it’s loose.
–On one play Bibby ended up posted up behind Thunder big man B.J. Mullens. Bibby managed to fight him off from turning to the middle, and Mullens was called for a hook on his move to the baseline. Nice work.
–Bibby drew the assignment on Sefolosha, who is five inches taller, with Johnson on Russell Westbrook. The Thunder finally exploited the mismatch when it took control early in the third. Sefolosha twice scored easily over Bibby in the post.
– It’s one thing to get lit up by Durant. It’s quite another to let Nenad Krstic hurt you. The Hawks didn’t make it too hard on Krstic, who for stretches pretty much got open midrange jumpers whenever he felt like stepping out.
– The Hawks didn’t play great but the Thunder is legit. What would that team do in the East?
– “They compete,” Crawford said. “They are kind of like this team a couple years ago. They are on their way, for sure.”
– It seems like this Hawks team now needs to be more like the Thunder. Durant is one-of-a-kind but how good could the Hawks be if they were as aggressive attacking the basket and came out with that Thunder intensity all the time?
– I’m back to .500. Dang.
– And I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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98 comments Add your comment
BONE
January 18th, 2010
7:46 pm
Bibby was garbage again
Ree Roe
January 18th, 2010
7:53 pm
All excellent points MC. When we don’t attack the basket, you get those scoring droughts that killed the momentum we had to end the 3rd Q. Ah well, good game by OKC. MC, I kno you just got here, but what do you think the Hawks are missing to make them a true threat for a title?
-REEcently Roe????
SWAT Native
January 18th, 2010
7:57 pm
The Thunder are 11-4 against the East, if that answers your question.
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2010
8:14 pm
The Magic are 9-10 since their 17-4 start.
Good to know that we are in the race to be “King of the Pigs”. By the way, Magic play the Lakers tonight… so we may still be in 1st, although that is clearly unimportant.
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2010
8:17 pm
“We got outworked it seemed like in every aspect of the game,” said Josh Smith.
– I thought the Thunder would give the Hawks problems because of their scrappy, relentless style. So did Woody: “You try to alert your guys to get them ready. I thought we just thought we were going to show up and beat them.”
The answer is SO clear… a better offensive system. That will fix all of the Hawks’ problems AND solve Atlanta traffic. Anyone have Mayor Reed’s cell phone number?
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
8:24 pm
I said in the offseason that Al and Josh were ready for a larger role and that to deny them was asking for chemistry problems. We’ll see as the season progresses if I was right. Already, after the Magic game, Al said publicly that he was surprised to not get the ball more (He was 6-7 that game).
And now here’s Josh: “We should have kept going inside-out,” Smith said. “It would have opened up the 3-point shot.”
Are the guards listening? Are the coaches?
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
8:28 pm
AJ,
“The answer is SO clear… a better offensive system. That will fix all of the Hawks’ problems AND solve Atlanta traffic. Anyone have Mayor Reed’s cell phone number?”
LOL. Maybe your smarmiest post ever.
By the way, just for the sake of clarity, were you HAPPY with our offensive “system” in the 4th quarter?
Hawk Str8Talk
January 18th, 2010
8:28 pm
Good to know that you have the Hawks number already. If only we can begin the transition to depending on to Smoove and Horford primarily before we continue to shoot ourselves out of games in the fourth quarter.
terrell
January 18th, 2010
8:43 pm
Marvin said “we didn’t make shots down the stretch”? Doesn’t he mean they? He was on the bench down the stretch. Wtf!
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
8:43 pm
Sautee…
so b/c he ended up w/ more shot attempts in the quarter he didnt defer in role? defer by definition; implies a deliberate putting off to a later time. now my point was to the claim that Joe hated Jamal, or was not willing to share the basketball… so what are you saying? if Joe ended up w/ 1 less shot than Jamal he deferred at that point… ummmm… ok.
“(he clearly deferred to and looked for Jamal late), all the while making plays and shots helping the Hawks cause.”
i dont think deferring is limited to shot attempts but its fine if you do.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
January 18th, 2010
8:45 pm
lmao @ terrell
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
January 18th, 2010
8:47 pm
I hope Teague comes through.
Marvin….Sheldon….,Acie…….
too many busts
Marvin does have good form tho..what a nice stroke!!
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
8:49 pm
big dave,
If you go back and read my post, you’ll find that I called what Joe did “sharing”.
If somehow that denigrates JJ in your mind, so be it.
And I also said that perhaps it was a difference of semantics. No problem, bud.
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
8:52 pm
i just hope that Crawford buzzer beater doesnt have the same effect on Woodson that Joe’s gm 4 Celtics did. he seems to get star struck. just b/c something works for you on a given night doesnt mean its the answer every game. everybody (players and fans alike) waited for someone, or tried to play hero. the players bought into the hype, which yields… forced awful looks…
Allen
January 18th, 2010
8:56 pm
we need to get harris in here from New Jersey for Bibby and Zaza and also get CDR from the Nets I did the trade on Espn and it works
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
9:01 pm
sautee…
nothing to do w/ Joe but the concept of deferring… where to you its limited to shots. see… in my opinion shots were shared regardless of who took the most, but at times (which i said) Joe deferred in role and most importantly showed the ability to do so.
but hey, i guess he’s just too selfish of a player to defer, i mean he shot 1 too many… “just stating the facts”.
kwooden1
January 18th, 2010
9:03 pm
I know I’m late with the comments, but had to watch the game on DVR. First thing I will say is “NICE GAME by OKC!” HAWKS had several chance to take the lead and a chance to tie at the end. Both teams fought hard, but OKC executed better in the 4th. I think there are several things for the HAWKS to learn, especially the HAWKS coaching staff.
#1 – OKC plays basketball the way it should be played! Guys drive and kick to open shooters. They play their roles and don’t worry about makes or misses.
#2 Durant — ENOUGH SAID!!
#3 OKC uses all their players Rookies, Euros, whoever! If you can play you get minutes!!
Lastly, they execute their offensive!!!
Harden was chucking up air ball 3’s, Maynor was turning the ball over, but the coach let them play and overall they played well. Harden, is their 6th man and he played great at times. They were up for most of the game so they could use their bench more, but I don’t think that is the problem. Our coaching staff has to start trusting our bench players. Clearly Woody trusts West, but what about the other guys. If Teague had fouled Westbrook behind the 3pt line what do you think would have happened? This was a tough loss, a game that these guys won’t soon forget. But the coaching staff needs to wake-up and start getting some much better offensive sets established. We had about 5 straight one-on-one possession at the end of the game, where Horford and Smith never got an entry pass. Woody needs to get another coach to call plays or get another coach to teach an offensive system.
GO HAWKS!!!
kwooden1
January 18th, 2010
9:04 pm
I’m not certain about the Marvin comments. He DUNKED on Durant, he didn’t get DUNKED on BY Green?
GO HAWKS!!!
kwooden1
January 18th, 2010
9:10 pm
I did like the press from the HAWKS. I thought it was very effect against a team with several guys that can bring the ball up. I think the line-up with JJ, Crawford and West can be very effective.
GO HAWKS!!!
Melvin
January 18th, 2010
9:17 pm
AJ,
I like the Hawks chances to win, when they whole a team to 15pts in the 4th qtr. Do you like the Hawks chances to win, when they score 16pts in the 4th?
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
9:17 pm
“I think the line-up with JJ, Crawford and West can be very effective.”
agreed… a defensive with enough offense from those 2 to compensate for what Mario lacks…
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2010
9:24 pm
Sautee, thanks, I enjoyed that one too.
I was forced to listen to the 2nd half and Holman/3D presented a different view of the offensive struggles. They said that the Hawks missed a bunch of open shots. And they also claimed that Crawwford had a great look at the last shot. They did complain about both Joe’s late game shot attempt and one by Josh… but they made it sound like guys were missing shots that they normally make.
Here’s a very long-winded answer to why I think we sometimes have offensive issues. We are an ensemble cast with a very narrow range of offensively skilled players. The difference between Durant and Green/Westbrook in terms of scoring ability is vast. If the Thunder are down in the 4th, they will most likely want to get the ball to Durant. In the case of the Hawks, we have a bunch of guys who believe that they can bring us back from a deficit (or deliver a closely fought game in the 4th). I’m not sure that they are being selfish, more they are playing with blind determination. Josh Smith often gets credited for “trying to make something happen” while Joe gets the “he’s being a ball hog”. But I truly believe they are operating from the same mental/emotional perspective… “I CAN HELP”. But we’re not built for a one-man show, and therefore, the team suffers. I don’t think there is an easy fix to that issue. Kobe frequently abandoned the triangle when he thought “HE COULD HELP”. I’d venture a guess that AI will do the same in the Princeton offense for Philly. We just happen to have a bunch of guys who think they are capabale of pulling the team out of a tight spot… and they often end up making things worse. We don’t have a Denzel or Tom Cruise who is the definitive leading man on this team. And I think that will remain a significant issue (with ot without a formal offensive system). It can be a strength but it also fuels problems, especially in a game when most of the players were probably feeling a little embarrassed and were too eager to end the uneasy feeling in their stomachs.
Sautee
January 18th, 2010
9:26 pm
bigdave,
WTF????????
I say that, in my opinion Joe was “sharing” and somehow you paint that as me saying he’s selfish?
Just agree to disagree about the meaning of the word. Geez……
Did you somehow skip over my 8:49 post?
cp
January 18th, 2010
9:27 pm
O’Brien that was a good list on the last blog. Ive tried to support Marvin but its just clear that he is an average sf. Its been so bad this year that if I wasn’t watching the games I would have sworn he wasn’t playing. That’s how little his impact has been. Time to upgrade that position.
Melvin
January 18th, 2010
9:27 pm
bigdave,
Did you hear Charles Barkley breakdown the play where Dirk drove to the rim got his defender into the air but took fade away shot. Barkley said Dirk makes the shot tougher by trying to avoid the contact instead of jumping into his defender and getting the foul call. Barkley said, forget about making the shot, just make sure you draw contact to get to the free throw line. That’s the exact same thing Joe does. He like to avoid the contact in order to get his shot off instead of jumping into his defender to get the foul call….Just saying.
Ken Strickland
January 18th, 2010
9:28 pm
If we had a more versatile, conscientious, team oriented PG, or a HC with enough common sense and/or ability to develop one, we wouldn’t have to worry about who defers to who, because he’d make the decisions. At least when Teague’s gets his occasional limited mins, he at least controls the ball and initiates the OFF.
When Bibby’s in the gm with JJ or Crawford, he allows them to fight over controlling the ball and the OFF, instead of being the PG in charge and taking control of running the OFF. This buddy buddy BS Bibby and JJ seem to have going is getting old and hurting the team, and Woodson’s sorry behind won’t do a damned thing to stop it.
There’s absolutely no excuse for Bibby to play over 28mins and end up with the same # of assists as his Center AHorford(4) and fewer the his PF JSmith(5) and his SG running mate JJ(7). We’re just not getting efficient and consistent play from our starting PG position, and it’s hurting the team.
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2010
9:29 pm
Melvin, I don’t like the team’s chances to win when they’re down by 12 in the 2nd… fight back to pull within 3 at half and then come out looking lame and go down by 14 in the 3rd. If you know that you don’t execute that well in the late game, don’t you have to enter the 3rd quarter ready to dominate?
Big Ray
January 18th, 2010
9:40 pm
I agree that we have a bunch of guys who think, “I can help” when things are going rough.
So, why is it that after several years, they still think that, first and foremost? Of course, there is absolutely nothing wrong with our offensive system. I heard that by word of hindquarters (or halves, as it were). The sh_t works. You just have to buy into it.
Melvin
January 18th, 2010
9:41 pm
AJ,
The Hawks started the 4th qtr down 4pts and with the 1st possession. There were several (probably more than several) opportunities for them to tie and take lead within the 1st 5mins of the 4th qtr while Durant was on the bench. The Hawks became undisciplined with the ball and fired jumpshots after jumpershot without any ball movement. Hence, why Josh said “We should have kept going inside-out”. IE, let’s get a higher percentage shot in the paint which OKC had a problem defending.
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
9:51 pm
i did Melvin…
i guess thats a shooters mentality… vs a scorers… i would say that both Joe and Dirk are natural shooters. then again in hindsight its easy to say what a player should have done… cause worse case scenario they go up looking for the contact and end up looking like ZaZa at his worse…
i know coming up i was always taught to forget about the contact and focus on putting the ball in the basket. im not a fan of players who on the offensive end initiate the contact and then seem to get all the touch fouls as well… just makes no sense.
Melvin
January 18th, 2010
9:54 pm
bigdave,
cosign your post…
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
10:02 pm
Sautee…
didnt say you called Joe selfish. once again how you feel is fine, its just you used shot attempts as a defining variable to discredit my comment, “My point was that with all of Joe’s “deferring” he STILL took the most shots.” thats fine, just wasnt my point. as far as the disagreeing on the meaning of the word… sure… thats fine too though i was just using it in its pure sense and definition. so i guess its your interpretation of it as it relates to the game. either way so be it… im done… moving on…
richbrave
January 18th, 2010
10:06 pm
Rumors, rumors, rumors. The latest – the owner of the MAGIC has been inquiring about GILBERT ARENAS, twice, last week, and this weekend.
Astro Joe
January 18th, 2010
10:10 pm
How is it that we can close out the Celtics, Blazers, Suns and Mavs and other quality opponents but can’t shut the door on the Knicks, Bulls or other alledgedly weaker opponents? Because of mindset. They act as a team when they feel they are playing an equal or better opponent. When dealing with a so-called lesser opponent, they each want to be the savior from an emabrrassing loss. That’s not about offensive system, that’s about staying true to who you are as a team. I think the players realize that, which is why they often talk about “trusting”.
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
10:11 pm
Melvin…
one thing thats for sure is that for the 2 who are often labeled soft Joe and Dirk’s games are similar… both can score in a variety of ways on the court, can shoot from anywhere and angle, both have tremendous skill set for size… what separates an MVP superstar from one who is/was on the brisk of super stardom is a coaching staff that by design puts his best players in positions to play to their strengths, take advantage of their unique abilities and succeed…
RLP
January 18th, 2010
10:16 pm
I think this sh_t works. The problem is not on the defensive side. But I think it is difficult to change an offensive system that has been in place for a long time and provided the only success the team had when it was less talented than it is now. For a number of years the only true offensive talent the team had was JJ. Whenever the team was in trouble it relied on JJ to score the ball. During the playoffs the past two years teams learned that when JJ is double teamed he can still be very effective PART of the time. At other times however, he has not learned to make effective passes out of the double team and allow others on the team to score the ball. Part of that is a lack of trust. In the past he did not have teammates with the talent to take advantage of getting the open look. And his coach goes along with giving him the ISO in times of duress.
But there is hope because there are times now when we go into these offensive stalls when a timeout has been called and other options are tried for a few minutes before the team reverts to the ISO. Because JJ is an immensely talented player the ISO does work PART of the time. What JJ has to realize is that the ball will come back to him if he trusts his teammates.
JC has a similar but slightly different problem. On this team when he does get hot the team sometimes stops feeding him the ball. I have seen him get a hot hand and then suddenly the team reverts to feeding JJ. JC does have the ability to pass out of bad defensive situations. But he is much more talented than JJ in creating passing lanes for his teammates. His problem is in deferring to JJ AND he is just naturally a streak shooter. I do not mind the times when he gets out of a streak. What I mind are the times when he is in a hot streak and the team stops feeding him the rock.
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
10:22 pm
stojoe…
great point…
but when your coach asks of his team to play as a cohesive unit, as 1 on the defense end. each man looking out for the next. each man having the responsibility of his teammates cover. then you come down on offense and he singles out his players. where only 1 acts in isolation of his teammates. does this not contradict the team concept in some shape or form? i mean sure, everybody is going to get their “go”. rather it be Joe, Mal, Al/Josh… but the team concept is lost in crunch time b/c he’s only going to go to an option a or b… so of course, naturally the players want to prove their offensive worth. then again what is your role? is it defined? who defined it? nope. a bunch of “jack of all trades” and 1 master of 1 (Mario West) and he thrives in his role.
defined roles create team chemistry, b/c each player is aware of what is expected of him. thats a coaching issue.
Rod from College Park
January 18th, 2010
10:28 pm
O’Brien,
“I used to have this discussion with Rod from CP as to whether or not Marvin was a top 15 SF. But now that I think about it, he is barely top 20. I was looking at the list of SFs in the league, and in no particular order, these are SFs I would take over Marvin.
Pierce, Gerald Wallace, Luol Deng, LeBron , Carmelo, Ariza, Granger, Al Thornton, Artest, Rudy Gay, Durant, Mickael Pietrus, Matt Barnes, Grant Hill, Hedo, Richard Jefferson, Josh Childress, and Caron Butler. That’s 18 SFs that (I think) would have the same impact on this team that Marvin does. Maybe Rod from CP is right. ”
Glad to see you remember those discussions. You could also add Jeff Green, Wilson Chandler, Travis Outlaw, Tayshaun Prince, and Stephen Jackson. We clearly overpaid for Marvin, and if we don’t get rid of him now, will regret it for years to come. It’s really not that hard to see. I don’t care what team he plays for, what coach he plays for, or how much more time he stays in the league, he clearly will never be an above average player in the league. I am really beginning to question whether he would be an above average player in the D-League. His offensive fundamentals are very poor, he has no handles, and no explosiveness. I think that we have waited too long already as most of the league now knows how terrible he his. To see where Durant’s game and Marvin’s game is at this point in their careers is almost comical. Glad you are seeing the light and are man enough to give credit when it is due, unlike others on the blog.
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
10:39 pm
lol at Rod from CP…
but he is digressing tremendously this year… on the offensive end at least. i hoped for Marvin to become a Sean Elliott but that wish is in great doubt. id be satisfied if his defense improved maybe 1 more notch and we got him to be a consistent spot up 3 pt shooter. you now how Bruce Bowen was just cash money from that 1 spot out the corner (2 spur references… im bout the throw up!).Joe looks to him so much on his dribble drives and Marvin rarely delivers.
bigdave
January 18th, 2010
10:40 pm
*regressing
damn Sautee…
Ken Strickland
January 18th, 2010
11:39 pm
I just read an article where Woodson admitted he wasn’t going to give Teague the time and attention he needs to develop or start on this team. He said he’s going with his veteran PG’s Bibby and Crawford, and wasn’t going to throw Teague to the wolves like he did the others. He was referring to JSmith, MWilliams, AHorford and JChildress when he said THE OTHERS.
That just goes to show the BS he comes up with for not doing a lousy job. JChildress was a candidate for 6th man of the yr a couple of times, MWilliams’ has been a 4yr starter, while JSmith and AHorford are producing at an Allstar level. JSmith, AHorford and MWilliams are the only draftee’s remaining on the roster after 5yrs.
Considering how many draftees have failed to produce, or remain on the roster, under his idea of not throwing them to the wolves vs the performances of those who were, why doesn’t this fool realize throwing them to the wolves is the only system that’s worked.
Clyde
January 19th, 2010
12:05 am
FIRE WOODY
JeJe
January 19th, 2010
12:07 am
Marvin played 21 minutes even though the Thunder have Durant.
Joe had 1 rebound in 45 minutes.
Contenders my ass
Grandad
January 19th, 2010
1:08 am
I haven’t been around to read all the posts lately, so if I’m repeating
someone, I apologize ahead of time.
It seems that over and over and over again…we go into a shooting lull
late [3rd or 4th] qtr.
I mentioned once before, tired legs = reduced effeciency from jump shooters. I will not even bring up min. played. However, late in games, it becomes even more imperative to go inside with the ball. Recently, Al
had made 9-11 and did not touch the ball during one of these lulls.
Tonight…what..?..8..9..misses, before finally Al gets the ball in the post and scores. By the way, why can’t Joe just post up sometimes?
Ken Strickland is spot on. No system. No off. philosophy. No plan.
yet on def. we have a system, phil., and a plan that Mr. Woodson has stuck with through thick and thin.
I must admit that the guys are playing our/his def. with confidence and effeciency. I must explain: everyone is not always suited to guard their man, but their switches are now being made smoothly and with precision. They are obviously growing into the defensive system through repitition.
It befuddles me, and others I’m sure, why the man cannot go through the same process for the offense.
As far as Joe and Jamal? Aside from what K.Strickland has already said.
These prolems would be solved with a system that involved;
[others have said the same thing, as have I]
both player and ball movement with an emphasis on getting the ball inside!
jj
January 19th, 2010
3:34 am
Ken,you tell it like it is but Sund and The Group are happy with this Team as it is and not what it could be.They are wasting an excellent opportunity to take a GIANT step in the East.I wish they could see what BK saw .When your PF and Center push the ball better than your guards,there is a problem.We would rather shoot jumpers instead of make layups.This Team will not be young forever.Sund,wakeup,Please……….
RA
January 19th, 2010
4:46 am
Fact, three of the top four teams in the east got beaten by teams from the west yesterday. Any question on which side of the Mississippie River most of the power is on this season?
RA
January 19th, 2010
5:59 am
Please what JJ? This teams chemistry is a VERY delicate balance. Even if you bring someone in that seems to fit there’s no gurantee that it won’t throw things off. Even teague being giving more pt would take time and shots away from Bibby and Crawford. Now, I realize that yesterday was a tough loss, but let’s look at why they lost. Did they lose because they didnt’ have the personelle to win? not hardly. Did they lose because that personelle was not properly deployed? again probably not. They lost for the simple reason that for two and a half quarters they simply didn’t match Oklahoma City’s intensity and in the final quarter they didn’t execute offensively. You can have all the X’s and O’s that you want and if the guys don’t go out there and do the job, or if they don’t do it well enough, you’re going to get handed the kind of loss that they suffered yesterday. But the bottom line is that for most of this season, they have done the job. The Hawks stand at 25-14, first in the Southeastern division and third in the eastern conference. That’s not random chance. They’re there because they HAVE taken a giant step forward in the East, and despite what Hubie Brown thinks, they’ve beaten good teams, but even the best team is going to have a let down. I seem to remember something about a Cleveland team getting beat by a Portland team that didn’t have their best player, but you better believe they’re not rethinking their personnelle or player rotations because they KNOW what’s going to win for them most of the time, and whether you like to admit it or not, so does Woody. Yea, yesterday’s loss stung, but it’s just going to be one of several stinging losses along the way to where the Hawks will ultimately be, a perennial power in the Eastern Conference. My advice, for what it’s worth, dance with the one that brought you, and she’ll always bring you home.
O'Brien
January 19th, 2010
8:30 am
Quotes from ajc.com
“The Thunder was scrappy from the start, no surprise since that’s been its calling card under coach Scott Brooks.” and “Did the Hawks not realize the Thunder would come out and play hard? It’s pretty much what that team is known for.”
Right now, Scott Brooks should be getting some votes for COY.
Big dave, Rod,
It seems to me that Marvin’s nature is to defer (that’s why he was so comfortable being the 6th man in college). And now that Crawford is here, that’s one more person that Marvin can defer to. Sure, Woody’s system doesn’t give him many opportunities, but if we put Durant on this team, I wonder if he would average 10 and 5 like Marvin, since Woody’s system is guard oriented?
Marvin doesn’t knock down the 3 at crucial times, he still stumbles and fumbles, and gets his shot blocked (is he really 6’9”?). He plays good defense, and he rebounds, which wouldn’t be so bad if we weren’t paying him $7.5 mil for the next 5 years. But with his role, we need exceptional defense and timely shooting. We are getting neither.
As for the Hawks, they are 26-13, first place in the SE, and are in position to get a #3 seed. Which is great. I just don’t want these issues (intensity, isos, ignoring the frontcourt, coaching etc) to come back and bite us in the playoffs.
dap01
January 19th, 2010
8:45 am
As Woody says, “Teague is going to get his chance one day, just not now”.
That sounds great until you see Bibby trying to play defense against Nash and other quick PG’s.
I do like having West play with Crawford and JJ.
I hope that the Hawks continue to try to not be so predictable at crunch times of EVERY game. ISO does not work, especially if we have competant shooters all over the floor (Bibby, Crawford and others)
WPinAZ
January 19th, 2010
9:25 am
“Teague can play and hold his own. He proved that in the exhibition season. It’s just that I’m playing with the veteran guys right now.”
I said it before and I’ll say it again….Woody will bury Teague on the end of the bench, just like he did Stoudamire and AC Law. Woody simply has NO USE for young PG’s. Only VETERANS will do. He will NEVER develop a point guard a la Doc Rivers or Byron Scott. I feel bad for Teague. He could make an impact for this team, in this league. I fear he’ll become another AC Law simply because of Woodson. That’s sad.
doc
January 19th, 2010
9:52 am
mc, where would the thunder be in the east. atop it is my best guess as they are 11 games over .500 in 19 games.
Clyde
January 19th, 2010
9:57 am
Woody is Woody and will never change
GeeMack
January 19th, 2010
10:01 am
Rod from College Park
The problem with Marvin’s contract is there is penatlty for trading him this year. We won’t be able to trade him until this summer.
WPinAZ
You mean Doc developed Rondo by playing him with 3 future 1st ballot Hall of Famers. That must be really hard. Is this the same Celtics team that does not have another point guard on the squad. If they don’t go with Rondo, who will run the point? Woody has options at the point (Bibby & Crawford). Also Woody doesn’t have (KG, PP, & Ray) to cover Teague mistakes when you’re trying to win.
RA
Nice post. Someone around here’s not throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Astro Joe
That’s a very good observation.
Sautee
January 19th, 2010
10:02 am
bigdave,
“but when your coach asks of his team to play as a cohesive unit, as 1 on the defense end. each man looking out for the next. each man having the responsibility of his teammates cover. then you come down on offense and he singles out his players. where only 1 acts in isolation of his teammates. does this not contradict the team concept in some shape or form?”
Excellent point! And of COURSE it does!
Laissez Faire is NOT an offensive system!
O'Brien
January 19th, 2010
10:09 am
In the Teague article, there is nothing Woody said that implied Teague has not earned his PT. Woody’s point was, he is going to stick with his vets. Which is understandable.
But if JJ resigns with the Hawks, then that suggests that Teague will be buried again on the bench next year, and the year after that (barring injuries). At what point does Woody give the kid some relevant burn (and I dont mean in blowouts)?
Last season, we saw how Woody said he played JJ all those minutes because he knew how important it was for him to make the all star team. (Needless to say, JJ was already a 2 time all star, so I dont see what the big deal was, and ultimately JJ got hurt in the playoffs).
My question is, All Star teams will be announced soon, and we have seen Josh and Al shoot a good percentage, hustle, play good defense etc. Why not feed them the ball to help their quest for their first All-Star selection? Why is it ok to do whatever it takes to help JJ to make it, but yet, not do the same for Al and Josh?
MC,
If OKC were in the East, I think they would be competing with the Hawks for a top 4 seed.
GeeMack
January 19th, 2010
10:11 am
Hey Woody Hater!
The Hawks have crashed the Big 3 party in the east. It’s hard for Woody to change his system, and it’s working. The ownership won’t fire the man based on theory. These guys are having a very good regular season
The Hawks are 4 games behind Cle for the best record in the east. They were no where near this level last season. Once the Hawks start underacheiving like the Hornets, then you consider a coaching change, but right now the Hawks are better than they were a year ago.
Mike is Back
January 19th, 2010
10:32 am
MC, cooooool stuff. I thought Josh and Woody analysis was similar to mines. We had to man up and take the ball to rim and draw some contact against a team like the Thunder. Josh had it going down stretch but JJ and Crawford kept taking most of the shots. It hard to swallow but I thought both the Phoenix and Thunder was terrific games…I really enjoyed both…the Thunder just wanted it more than we did…but I thought the Hawks regain their intensity and made it difficult for the Thunder to score down the stretch. Plus, we gave ourselves a chance to win it at the end…so I wouldn’t consider this a lack of effort…the Thunder just came to play.
In my opinion, the game was loss on the possession before JGreen dunked at the end. We had to get a better shot from JJ on the previous possession before that dunk.
That the next step JJ has to take if wants his name to mention with the likes of Koby, LBJ, and Wade. He has to deliver with the game on line…we had to score or get to the free throw line on that possession…make the ref blow their whistle one way or the other…it changed the whole complexion of the game. We can’t expect Crawford to be Houdini every night…the game was loss before that three. That Kevin Durant is one tough customer…all 120 pounds of him. lol
At least JJ said he was trying to make contact on that play…cuz I couldn’t tell when I was watching it. I agree with Josh…the Thunder are not an easy out…they have been playing good ball…they are not a push over…WE CAN LEARN SOMETHING FROM THE WAY THESE YOUNG CATS ATTACK THE RACK…THEIR FEARLESS.
If I was Teague…I would not dwell on my frustrations…Bibby is starting to look a little gimpy…the wear and tear of seasons is starting to show…JUST BE READY TO GO WHEN YOUR NAME IS CALLED.
Lets get back on the winning track…GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I MUS WRITE
January 19th, 2010
10:36 am
Good Post -Kwooden1, have to agree with you,”OkC plays the game the way its supposed to be played”. Im not gonna bash Woddy because of our recored etc… but how good coukd this team be if they consistently moved the ball, set multiple screen,and cut without the ball.
OKC -They have the makings of sumthing special- 1. Go to possible super star player 2. nice parts- Green,Westbrook,Harden,Kristic 3.Team Identity/Style of play
Rod from College Park- I would take any of those guys over our SF except Tayshaun Prince(injuries), Caron Butler(injuries-size 6′5)
If OKC were in the EC they would be 5th with Miami close behind – MC good work rapid fire bloggn
JeJe
January 19th, 2010
11:07 am
Joe had 1 rebound in 45 minutes yesterday.
AND TEAGUE WILL NEVER GET MINUTES. WOODSON THINKS PLAYING VETS VS. EVERY POINT GUARD IS THE BEST IDEA. THAT’S WHY QUICK PGS OWN US
GeeMack
January 19th, 2010
11:17 am
JeJe
Obviously Woodson’s theory works. The Hawks are in position to be better than last year, and possibly go furthure in the playoff. I’m sure ASG will take that as a plus.
darrell starks
January 19th, 2010
11:32 am
The current roster we have can not attend for and title period, the hawks have 2 make a trade for a big man and move horford 2 power forward.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
S.L.
January 19th, 2010
11:50 am
All I want is a picture of that sick posterizing of Smoove by Jeff Green…..ooooohhhhhhh..nasty!!!!
Ken Strickland
January 19th, 2010
11:52 am
JJ-I think Sund and the Group really are satisfied with the team as it is, but I wouldn’t assume they’re satisfied with the way Woodson’s underutilizing it. The ASG gave Sund the approval to give Woodson the talent, versatility, depth and experience he’s claimed his bench has lacked. How many yrs have we heard him use that as his excuse for employing a short rotation and riding the backs of his top 6-7 players into the ground?
With teams starting to consistently exploit his OFF/DEF systems and his slow to no reaction to that exploitation, as well as our PG issues, he’s started to revert back into his coaching shell. We’re starting to see more and more WOODY BALL, and the prerequisite OFF problems that goes with it, particularly late in gms.
Just look at the gm against the Thunder. They have one bonified star, and the rest are a collection of rookies, role players and/or castoffs. Instead of making excuses like Woodson has consistently done, their HC showed confidence in all of his players by making use of his entire bench, and on the road. It’s obvious he assessed the individual strengths of each player and utilizes those strengths, rather than focusing on what certain players can’t do, like Woodson does, and then ignoring them with a series of DNP CD. That gm was a perfect example of a HC that gets the most out of what he has because he coaches his team and all of his players up. We, on the other hand, were a perfect example of an underachieving team that doesn’t get the most out of its talent because our HC coaches his team and certain players down.
The frontline production from Smoove, Horford and Marvin has really improved of late, yet we’re getting outscored in the paint, after leading the NBA in that category. Our overall scoring and fastbreak scoring(we led the NBA in this category as well), is steadily decreasing. That’s the result of Woodson’s coaching limitations starting to take hold and forcing him back into his coaching shell.
While we’ve been unable to defeat Orlando or Cleveland this yr, far less talented teams have, and on the road. Why, Because their HC’s utilize strategy, make adjustments and create and/or take advantage of matchups that put their teams in a position to attack their weaknesses. Woodson, on the otherhand, expects his team to go out and beat them at their own gm regardless of any matchup problems.
Hell, he even insists on using a DEF that makes it easier for them. Cleveland acquire Shaq and we acquired JCollins for the purpose of matching up with DHoward’s size and strength. Yet, our dumbass HC thinks our guards are perfectly capable of switching off on him and doing what no other center has been able to do. IS THERE ANOTHER HC THAT’S A BIG ENOUGH DUMBASS TO DO AND/OR THINK THAT?.
CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:
(1)Over our 1st 15gms we were 11-4, #6 in PPG, and leading the NBA in Pts in the paint, fastbreak pts and shooting percentage.
(2)Over our next 15 gms we were 10-5(21-9 overall) and no longer leading the NBA in any category.
(3)we’re 5-5 over the last 10gms and struggling with consistency, getting outscored in the paint, down considerably in fastbreak pts, and after averaging 107PPG, we’ve managed to break the 100pt mark in only 8 of the last 16gms.
WHENEVER WE BECOME INCONSISTENT AND START LOSING, IT ALWAYS COINCIDES WITH THE DRASTIC INCREASE IN ISO’S, ONE ON ONE, GUARD DOMINATED, JUMPSHOOTING WOODY BALL. AS THE SEASON PROGRESSES, WE’RE BECOMING MORE AND MORE INCONSISTENT AND LOSING MORE FREQUENTLY. AND YOU WOODY LOVING APPOLOGISTS BLAME INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS FOR WHAT AILS US RATHER THAN CONSIDER WOODSON AND HIS LIMITED HALFCOURT OFF, SWITCHING DEF, LACK OF EFFICIENT USE OF HIS BENCH, STATEGY OR ADJUSTMENTS AS A/THE CONTRIBUTING FACTOR.
At this rate, you WOODY LOVERS are going to find it very difficult to continue claiming BUT WE’RE WINNING or WE STILL HAVE A WINNING RECORD as an excuse for trying to justify his incompetence, and with his OFF/DEF systems and philosophy. If we’re lucky, we’ll advance to the 2nd rd of the playoffs and get embarrassed like last yr.
(
vava74
January 19th, 2010
11:55 am
I must say that although I sometimes dog Ken Strickland for his one dimensional contribution to the blogs, I think that the Hawks should consider sacrificing 4 to 8 wins and change the line up.
Bibby could still contribute (maybe even more) if he played off the bench and was limited to about 20/25 minutes a game.
He is still a very savvy player and against the opposition bench his numbers would be more effective.
I know that giving JT0 the starting job is a huge shot in the dark, however, we are stuck in no man’s land: we are a very good team, capable of winning consistently but our switching defense and our offense do suffer a lot because Bibby is a liability defensively against many teams and offensively he stops the dribble and does not penetrate.
If we keep this line up we will almost certainly get to the second round and be competitive, but the conference finals might be difficult to achieve since in a 7 game playoff series it will be difficult to hide our deficiencies.
vava74
January 19th, 2010
11:55 am
… against stronger opponents.
(this bit was missing at the end).
vava74
January 19th, 2010
11:56 am
Funny, I typed my post before Ken posted his.
darrell starks
January 19th, 2010
11:57 am
Marvin is hurting us bad at the 3position he is not producing, i think bringing him of the bench will make him a better player and make the team stronger bench wise.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
vava74
January 19th, 2010
11:59 am
Ken,
I think the switching defense is one of our most important tools and should not be ditched.
However, it is not effective 100% of the time and Woody needs to introduce some variation like we did against Boston when we went to a more classical zone defense and completely changed BOS’ game flow.
Sautee
January 19th, 2010
12:05 pm
Gee Mack,
About this: “The Hawks are 4 games behind Cle for the best record in the east. They were no where near this level last season. ”
We are a whopping two games better than last year at this point
09-10 after 40 games: 26-14
08-09 after 40 games: 24-16
BUT, last year at this point we had lost Josh for 12 games (we were 6-6 without him). So are we TRULY “nowhere near” where we were last year?
O'Brien
January 19th, 2010
12:24 pm
Sautee,
The Hawks have been healthy, they also added the sixth man of the year in Crawford, Joe Smith, and Teague, and we have the same starting lineup from last year.
Overall, Cleveland has been fairly healthy, but Orlando has dealt with injuries to Vince and Nelson (and a new starting lineup losing Hedu), Boston has dealt with injuries to KG, Big Baby, Pierce and Rasheed missed a few games. The Lakers were without Gasol for a while. Spurs, Nuggets, Blazers, the list goes on, have also dealt with injuries.
Hawks have been one of the healthiest teams in the league. Why are we only 2 or 3 games better than last year? Good question.
vava,
Even if we change the starting lineup, that does not mean we would lose an extra 4-8 games, but I like your way of thinking. That being said, I still say start Bibby. But give Teague more minutes at PG.
hawk from hinesville
January 19th, 2010
12:55 pm
geez we have trouble with first place…made thunder look like lightning…definitely need team meeting..go hawks
jay dubu
January 19th, 2010
1:06 pm
The Hawks are 1 game shy of half the season. Whatever groove Marvin is waiting to get into, he should be there by now.
As someone stated earlier, the Hawks are 2 games better than last season with the great cast of players added, and very few injuries.
Now id the time to run off a 9 – 10 game winning streak!
Let’s Go Hawks!!
GeeMack
January 19th, 2010
1:10 pm
Sautee
Good info Sautee.
Keep in mind we were 7 games out of 1st place at this time last season in the east. Also we were 5 games behind Orlando in the division.
My point was mainly about closing the gap between us and the Big 3.
We are in a lot better position this season than last season.
Dwayne
January 19th, 2010
1:28 pm
terrell….Marvin said “we” as in “team”. Good for him.
northcyde
January 19th, 2010
1:45 pm
Hawks were 6 – 20 FG on shots from close range 10 feet and in ( not counting shots around the rim ) Hawks were 4 – 16 from 3 point range. This team missed a ton of close looks in the paint, and couldn’t knock down open 3 point shots. If you look at the shot chart, we did drive the lane, but we couldn’t convert, especially our guards. Then our guards couldn’t hit the 3 point ball.
- JJ went 3 – 8 FG in that 4th quarter
- Crawford went 0 – 6 FG ( after making the 2 huge threes at the end of the 3rd period )
- Bibby went 1 – 4 FG ( all from 3 point range . . and that one was the 3 pointer with 4 seconds left )
TOTAL: 4 – 18 FG
LOL . . we’re not going to win with our guards shooting like that in a quarter. It’s amazing that we were even in position to send the game into OT, with them shooting like that.
Oh well, Orlando did their job and lost in LA ( after having a lead in the 3rd quarter ). Still 1st in the SE Division. Hopefully the Hawks won’t come out flat vs the Bobcats, or we’ll be having this same conversation again. Bobcats are RED HOT too.
nique
January 19th, 2010
1:47 pm
at the end when joe drove and had 4 guys converge on him he should have kicked it out to jamal who was wide open. bet jamal would’ve nailed it. can’t believe horford didn’t rotate over to give josh some help on that green dunk at the end.
northcyde
January 19th, 2010
2:06 pm
O Brien . . . could it have anything to do with our strength of schedule? Also, our defense this year is a little more schizophrenic than it was last year.
And in fairness to last year’s squad, this was the time in which we started having injuries as well, which is why we fell all the way down to 34 – 28 in the beginning of March, before we turned it on at the end of the season and finished with a 13 – 7 record in our final 20 games. So last year’s squad ( if healthy ) was more than likely a 50 win team as well.
And people are still talking about Teague. What did Teague do yesterday in the minutes he got? He has to be able to come in the game an instantly provide a spark, if he wants more playing time. Mario did just that yesterday ( on defense ).
Teague missed another layup and a midrange jumper. He’s now down to 36% FG shooting. Yet, people STILL want the kid to get more playing time. People still think he’s a good enough defender to warrant taking minutes from Bibby?
Like I said when Mario was re-signed, I wouldn’t mind one bit if Mario got Teague’s minutes, seeing that Bibby and Crawford are Woody’s PGs. The article MC did last night, should pretty much put that to rest.
northcyde
January 19th, 2010
2:09 pm
nique . . . Jamal is sporadically a “clutch” player. The guy isn’t THAT “money”. If he was, he wouldn’t have gotten traded 3 times in a span of 6 years. He went 0 – 6 in the 4th quarter. So while you’re right in saying that JJ shouldn’t have gone 1 on 4 ( he actually should’ve just taken the contested 17 foot jumper ), Jamal probably misses that shot if JJ passed the ball to him.
Jamal is the ultimate streak shooter. When he’s on, he’s fantastic. When he’s off, he’s awful.
O'Brien
January 19th, 2010
2:12 pm
northcyde,
I think we play the Kings first, and we should beat them. But you’re right. I wish our guards would feed the front court more. Both Josh and Al are shooting over 50%, and they are also good passers.
Hawks need to win the division and get the #2 or #3 seed. That way, we’ll probably play Boston in round 2 (who we match up well with), and wont face Orlando or Cleveland until the Conference finals.
northcyde
January 19th, 2010
2:13 pm
nique . . . Jamal would’ve missed that shot too. He went 0 – 6 FG in that 4th quarter.
You’re right that JJ probably should’ve passed to somebody, instead of trying to go 1 on 4. ( actually, he should’ve shot the 17 foot fadeaway, if he was going to shoot, to at least give our guys a chance to get the offensive rebound. ). But Jamal was ice cold. He wasn’t making that shot.
Jamal is the ultimate streak shooter. When he’s on, he’s fantastic. When he’s off, he’s awful.
northcyde
January 19th, 2010
2:21 pm
The problem I have with Teague, was the problem I started having with Salim, and then Acie. I was a big Salim fan, and though he should play ahead of Lue at times. Other people hated Salim and his chucking. It took me a while to come around, but I finally did. What I was seeing in Salim, was that he would go through stretches were he’d start 0 – 3 . . . 1 – 4 FG. As a reserve, you really can’t afford to do that, especially if you’re known as an offensive threat. But when he’d get extended minutes during scrub time, he’d look like Jamal Crawford.
The same goes for Acie. He just didn’t affect the game enough ( especially in year 2 ), to warrant Woody giving him extended minutes.
And I’m seeing the same trend in Teague. People can’t say that he’s been a spark plug when he’s entered the game, because he hasn’t. So the rationale with Teague playing is to simply get him more minutes. Forget what the results on the court say. Just get him more minutes, and lessen Bibby’s.
If Teague can’t make his presence known in short stretches, I’m not down with him getting more minutes. If people want Bibby’s minutes lessened, give them to Crawford or give them to Mario. Teague hasn’t done anything to warrant more PT.
Mike is Back
January 19th, 2010
2:42 pm
I must have miss something on Marvin…while it true he didn’t have one of his dominate performance…Didn’t Marvin spend a long stretch of the fourth quarter on the bench???
vava74, I agree with you on the switching defense…it’s an important tool for the Hawks…however I wouldn’t deploy it when Bibby is in the game…its too physically demanding for him. You can see the toll its taking on his body…its starting to affect his jump shot…how often due you see Bibby missed three wide open shots in a row???
Woody said he would not have a problem playing Teague if one of his vets goes down…he might have to rely on Teague sooner than he thinks. I love Bibby he is a Warrior…but clearly, the wear tear has deteriorated his ability to defend in this switching defense. Again, that is on Woody to devise variation in his defensive scheme to minimize the risk on defense when Bibby is on the floor. Also, if Bibby continues to log heavy minutes…what will he have left in the tank…come playoff time…hmmmmmmmmmmm.
There is no easy solution…Bibby is a big part of what we do…I agree with the guys that says…you may have to endure some struggles…maybe even a few losses to get Teague ready go…in case of emergency.
Surely, it want take a injury to one of our keys guys for Teague to get some consistent PT…We should have learned that from last year playoff.
If Crawford is force into the starting line-up do to injury…who is going to make up for his punch off the bench…again hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Melvin
January 19th, 2010
3:01 pm
northcyde,
You are holding Bibby (and the previous vet guards) to a different standard then the rooks (or less experience) PG guards .How many times have we seen Bibby and Jamal shoot less than 50% and not get taking out of the game? Teague is known for his speed and he’s effective getting to the rim and causing havoc on defense. Teague is 40 games into his rookie season where he has played inconsistent mins. Most coaches know that rookies are going to make mistakes. It comes with the territory but you play them and take your lumps b/c there is no substitute for game experience. Look at Woody justification for not playing Teague; it has nothing to do with his ability on the court but solely to do with his preference. If Teague shot is not falling, at least he’s a capable defender. Can we say the same about Bibby??????
DHunt
January 19th, 2010
3:04 pm
Is it just me or do others get that queasy feeling when you wee Woodson trying to diagram a play in the huddle? I swear, he will have a conversation with every guy there, and then they come out and run iso Joe or iso Jamal. Kenny Smith, and pretty much every other unbiased announcer has said it over an over again, and it can’t be said too much. When the Hawks move the ball they are a very good offensive team. But it has become very obvious that they are not being coached to move the ball. They are being coached to get the ball in one man’s hands and then move out of the way. Not only does that backfire more often than not with forced shots and the like, but it also puts one of the best rebounding tandems in the league in piss poor positions to get rebounds.
I’m off the fire Woody bandwagon. The jury is still out on the “Do Not Rehire Woody” bandwagon. He can coach up defense, (although that switching style gets us in trouble at times against well coached teams. But he needs to find an offensive minded assistant coach to defer to on the offensive side of the ball. Man’s got to recognize his limitations. Either he can’t figure out how to best use these guys consistently, or he can’t get them to buy into what he is selling for an offensive style. Either way, that’s not a good sign for a head coach or for this team realizing their potential.
Ken Strickland
January 19th, 2010
3:08 pm
VALVA74-The Detroit Pistons under HC LBrown is one of the few teams that’s successfully utilized the switching DEF Woodson loves so dearly. The key to their success was having DEF minded PG’s like CBillups and RStuckey who are big, strong and tall enough to handle switching off on bigger players. We simply don’t have that advantage, and gm after gm, we’ve all seen teams successfully take advantage of Bibby.
The switching DEF might make it a little easier for Bibby, but it makes it much harder on everyone else. And considering his drop in production, inability to penetrate and create easy scoring opportunities, as well as his almost total lack of DEF, we simply can’t become more consistent or get better if we continue carrying him as a starter, along with his limitations and liabilities.
For those who insist on focusing on Marvin as the main cause of our overall problems, consider this. Even though his overall OFF production has fallen off, he’s actually more productive overall than PG MBibby.
BIBBY/MARVIN
MPG-27.7/29.8, PPG-9.4/10.4, RPG-2.2/5.1, APG-4.5/1.1, FG%-.421/.449.
When you factor in the pts allowed and fouls accumulated by others having to cover for Bibby’s matador DEF, compared to the advantage Marvin provides with his all around DEF, it makes Bibby the least productive and weakest link. Unlike Bibby, Marvin holds his own onf DEF and doesn’t require a DEF change, or someone to defend the player he’d normally be expected to defend.
Melvin
January 19th, 2010
3:11 pm
Hawks held OKC to 15pts in the 4th qtr. Only if they could have managed to score 20pts in the 4th, they would have won the game. Nope, they don’t have a problem on the offensive side of the ball… DEFENSE, you want to talk DEFENSE????
Miss Horford
January 19th, 2010
3:28 pm
I disagree Melvin. They did have a slight of a problem on the offense as well. The Hawks went inside to score, but never completed the job….this happened more than several times. Not a red jersey was seen near the rim to rebound their own ball. This happened over and over and over again. In my opinion, that is one of the major problems to why we lost.
Defense was lacking, but how exactly do you defend long outside shots that went in every time by almost every player? The OKC were shooting rather well.
Rod from College Park
January 19th, 2010
3:28 pm
Ken Strickland,
Bibbys role is to not turn the ball over, run the offense and shoot the open three. He is much better at hitting the open three than Marvin. He also is guarded most of the time while Marvin is left wide open. Bibby also commands respect on the offensive side of the floor and Marvin does not. No comparison. Who can Marvin defend? He could not defend Durant. He could not defend Lebron. He could not defend Granger. What are you seeing defensively that makes you so confident in his defense. It is obvious that he is not doing a good job, thus Mike Woodson always puts Joe or Josh on his man once they get hot (See Granger, Durant, Melo, Lebron…….)
Rod from College Park
January 19th, 2010
3:30 pm
Mario West did a much better job than Marvin on Durant yesterday.
Miss Horford
January 19th, 2010
3:32 pm
I also like Mario….but who does Mario not do well on? He can do better defense than any other player we have! It is b/c he gives it all he has every game no matter what. We need more players like that!
Miss Horford
January 19th, 2010
3:34 pm
Mario is a great defender….but not just yesterday…everyday. He gives it his all every single time. Even when he was in the D league. We need more players like that….with that heart and soul willing to give the hard work.
Miss Horford
January 19th, 2010
3:36 pm
Might I also add that Big AL does have this heart and soul as well!
Dukester9
January 19th, 2010
3:39 pm
Im so glad Joe didnt accept that extension because you know what folks he is not a superstar like we want him to be. Players like Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Pierce they will their teams on a run late in the 3rd or early in the 4th quarter against teams like this. I mean Durant has the killer instinct like the stars i mentioned. I say make a run at Wade with Joes money next year. And all you Marvin lovers get on the first thing smoking out of town with him in tow!!!!!
GeeMack
January 19th, 2010
3:46 pm
I’m guessing, with all the questions surrounding the play of the Hawks, many of you believe this is a champioship caliber team with the right coaching?
Many of you believe that if we had an offensive coach like PJax Larry Brown, Gpop we would have the best record in the NBA?
I say if this is championship talent, then we should look at making changes.
However I hope we are not dillusional like the Pistons of the past few season. Every other year there was a coaching change, only to realize it was never coaching…talent wins in the NBA.
showboat
January 19th, 2010
4:21 pm
Hawks protest denied.
Ken Strickland
January 19th, 2010
5:20 pm
ROD FROM CP-Name one player Bibby has proven he’s capable of guarding, or a single gm he’s turned a noticeable DEF performance. Also, name a single time any team has singled Marvin out and successfully exploited him. Then name a single gm in which Bibby hasn’t been singled out and succcessfully exploited. Why don’t you Bibby lovers get off that BS about Bibby being so damned good at protecting the ball.
With JJ and Crawford runs our OFF so much, Bibby probably handles the ball and initiates the OFF less than any other starting PG. Plus, name another starting PG that spends all of his time on the perimeter, and doesn’t penetrate or create easy scoring opportunities for his teammates. OUR C AHORFORD AND PF JSMITH INITIATES MORE FASTBREAKS THAN ANY OTHER C/PF COMBO IN THE NBA. YET, CAN ANYONE SAY THEY’VE EVER SEEN BIBBY FILL THE LANE AND FINISH, OR GO COAST TO COAST ON A FASTBREAK? Besides, he can still do all his job while coming off the bench.
You’ve made it obvious you don’t like Marvin, but by consistently creating BS excuses, and in some cases, telling outright lies to justify your feelings, it’s become disgraceful.
Fundamentals
January 19th, 2010
5:27 pm
Been out of pocket for a while. My initial predition for the OKC game came to fruition. I’ll give credit to Josh for crashing the glass, but Miss Horford has a point on the rebounding and energy level. We didn’t bring the defense, we didn’t bring the energy and thus we got into a situation where we thought we could outshoot yet another team. Just like against NY we lost. It all goes back to energy in my mind.
Folks are going to dog our team and always promote coaching and player trades, but who are we going to replace them with? If Marvin leaves on the next thing smokin along with Woodson who are we going to get in return. Don’t post a trade or change without a replacement, unless you just like posting weak stuff. I’m personally tired of all these pipe dreamers.
We can beat anyone when we give 100%. We can’t win at anything less. 100% EFFORT + TALENT wins games.
nunna yo biznezz
January 20th, 2010
6:06 am
no one is saying teague will be a superstar..
what most are saying is,just like some of you think he should provide sparks as soon as he gets in,we’re saying,at least he should get in!!
at least be consistent with the man and see what he can do.
some players are not practice players,not saying that he is not because we all have never been at hawks practices.
but,the verdict is out on this guy until we see him in consistent minutes on the floor..
woody does not even know what this guy can do..TRUST..
But neither do i..
we won’t know until he has consistent minutes,simple and plain..