The Aftermath . . .

Still waiting on an AJC article/blog/wire story/smoke signals that has some quotes from last nights game.

You guys suscribe to AP? Even USA Today had a good summary article complete with quotes.

College football is NOT the only thing your sports department should be devoted to.

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Don’t do like I do the entire broadcast.

It’s Hawks are, Hawks have, – it’s a plurality of a dangling participle as opposed to – Dominique is, Dominique has – which is a singular derision of a dingleberry deuteronomy.

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Way to pull out a win after a so so performance….I will admit that i left at the 10 sec mark- the game looked all but over especially after Amare’s hanging shot, O well i’ve seen it 20 times on sports center so…..

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I’m still pumped from last night….great game!

I wonder why Teague did not play, too. He handles the ball well, usually makes good decisions. Where I think he really could help is on D. He plays terrific man-on-man D already. He more than held his own against Rondo and he could have helped against Nash. I’m not talking major minutes. Just put him in for 8-10 and see what he can do.

Although, you cut on the Horford on Nash matchup, but Al almost had a terrific strip of Nash late in the game. The Hawks just were not able to get the loose ball. Al did ok in that matchup. It was not the mismatch people assume it was.

Oklahoma City is going to put up a fight. Looking forward to that one….Get in the seats, people. We got a potential great team on our hands.

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From Mike C:

“On the latter point, Woody mentioned the other day that he likes to start a wing on the opposing point so that when the switch on the pick-and-roll happens, the Hawks don’t end up with a small on the post guy.

I understand that thinking, but this was a game where instead of that we saw Al Horford keep ending up guarding Steve Nash straight up off the pick-and-roll. I think I’d rather take my chances with a mismatch against Channing Frye or Robin Lopez in the post (where at least there’s a chance of help) rather than have Nash operate in the open floor against Horford. ”

******************

Well just look what happened in that game:

-Nash only had 8 shot attempts. Eight. He averages 13 shots a game.

- He went 0 – 3 from 3-point range. He shoots 42.8% from 3 on the year.

- He had a +/- rating of -3.

Because of the defensive strategy employed by Woody, it prevented Nash from being the dual high volume assist and scoring guy that he usually is. Nash averages 19 ppg ( 21 ppg in his last 5 ). The presence of Horford, plus the threat of Josh Smith at the rim, essentially neutralized the effectiveness of Nash as a scoring threat. It was a great defensive game plan that will go unnoticed by traditional basketball fans that feel that a guard should always be matched up against a guard.

Another thing that went unnoticed by most Hawk fans and observers, was the defense of Joe Johnson on both Amar’e and Robin Lopez at times.

The good thing about ESPN games, is that you can always go back and rewatch the game at certain points. Their announce team actually complimented JJ’s post defense, because he was matched up against a bigger guy most of the time on those switches.

Phoenix was averaging almost 110 ppg coming into Atlanta. We held them to 101. ( 46 in the 2nd half ).

People despise the switching defense around here for some reason, but as Woody said in the Slam Magazine article . . . “The s–t works!!” When played correctly ( as it was last night ), it’s a beautiful thing to watch. But you have to have players who are willing to play and defend multiple positions, for the “s–t” to work. That’s why it’s very important for 6 foot 5 Jamal Crawford to get tougher defensively.

From azcentral.com:

“Atlanta’s ability to switch disrupted the Suns, who shot 44 percent after shooting 43 percent Wednesday at Indiana. Phoenix played the stretch with Goran Dragic and Robin Lopez
instead of Jason Richardson and Channing Frye, each of whom were 2 of 8. Lopez had not played the previous two games but had 11 points, six rebounds and five fouls in 31 minutes.”

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2010/01/15/20100115spt-suns-hawks-game.html

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And they average almost 27 ppg from 3 point range. Last night, they were 2 – 13 3FG . . for 6 points.

When played right, the switching defense definitely works.

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Hehe, will do Mike! My first first – I can’t believe it. Looks like we are getting some love from the folks over at SI.com. Ian Thompsen has both Smith and Horford on his All-Star team. Good read here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ian_thomsen/01/15/countdown.all.star/index.html

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mc … you’re gonna hate, that’s cool cause haters gotta hate. but at least let it be accurate hate. . . .

too funny, there might be fewer bloggers and hurt your numbers mc.

that might be hard to come by here as some folks tend to fantasy rather than facts to support their thoughts. anyway i guess the ground rules are out there.

mc really like the way you are bringing it … welcome. shoes might be different but look as good as sekou’s to start off with and that is saying something.

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The Teague thing is EASY to figure out. It’s just that people don’t want to understand it. They’re too fixated on Teague getting playing time, when the answer as to why Woody doesn’t go to Teague every game, is right in their face. It’s because . . .

- Bibby is our starting PG
- and Crawford is our backup PG

EASY to understand? Right.

Or let me phrase it like this. Who is the better PG? Crawford or Teague? If the answer is Crawford, then that’s why Crawford is the backup PG. ( Crawford is arguably our BEST PG, but that’s another topic )

Most teams don’t have a combo guard coming off the bench that can play BOTH the point and the 2. We do. It’s the same situation with Flip vs Acie, except Flip was more of a 2 than Crawford is. Craw is a TRUE combo guard in the mold of Dwyane Wade, Jalen Rose and Joe Dumars.

If the Pistons of the 80s had Isaiah at PG, Dumars at SG ( who can also play point ), and a high scoring 2-guard like Vinnie Johnson, do you REALLY want a rookie PG taking minutes from any of those 3 guys, especially in tight games? JJ, Crawford, and Bibby aren’t anywhere near as good as that Detroit trio . . . but they may be the best trio in the NBA today.

The real problem with the Teague situation, is that people ( all of a sudden ) now hate Bibby. If it were up to the fans that wanted to see Teague play on a nightly basis, Bibby would only play 20 minutes a night, while Teague played 15, and Crawford played 12 minutes at PG.

Woody plays Teague when the game is still in our control ( whether we’re winning, or still within a possession or 2 ). When we’re 3 or more possessions down, Woody will always opt to go with his main guys to get us back into the game.

Teague may have been a 1st round pick, but he was also the 7th PG picked in the draft. Seventh. Not 2nd like Acie was, but 7th.

The guy is shooting 36.6% FG and 21.1% 3FG . . . but they wonder why Woody doesn’t play him every game.

With the 3 guards we have here, there’s really no need at all to play him, to be honest.

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Plus you have Evans, who can play the 2 and the 3 if need be.

Teague had decent minutes in the win over Washington. To me, there’s no rush at all to develop the kid, especially while we’re winning right now.

Last night though, was a situation in which we were down 8 going into the 2nd quarter, and needed to get right back in that game. The so-called “great bench” that we have, has routinely blew leads, or see leads extended while they’ve been in the game all year. Even last night, it was the “bench” that couldn’t score at the beginning of the 4th quarter.

The game was too tight to opt to go with Teague at any point in that game. It was the correct call that Woody made.

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wow, i drop in off and on but am not a regular reader (of the comments) because there is simply too much stupidity. no matter who is on the bench they should be getting more minutes and if they were just used more we would see them blossom (my favorite used to be salim stoudamire who of course has gone on to get all those minutes on another team right? or acie law or randolph morris – people just don’t get that practice counts, there are only so many minutes, and sometimes players just aren’t that good). anyway, that was just a long set up to say it is nice to see some logic and reason around here. well done northcyde.

basically i couldn’t agree more. teague doesn’t need more minutes, he needs less. back in the way back days with the lakers pat riley used to say his dream lineup consisted of 5 6′9” players who could all switch and run and create chaos (with lineups like magic, scott/cooper, worthy, green, and maybe a thompson – post kareem for example, he kind of did). when billy knight either purposely or inadvertently seemed to be drafting towards that same goal he was pilloried. well, he kind of has created that kind of lineup and it is working beautifully. most of the times good teams lose to the hawks they site their length and athleticism as a main reason. bottom line is most teams can’t effectively switch like the hawks so they get eaten up by great pick & roll teams like the suns normally. no defense is perfect, but the one the hawks play has its strengths.

but the initial point is in agreement with northcyde. why would you ever give teague meaningful minutes at the expense of johnson/bibby/crawford. you also don’t really have minutes for joe smith with a big man rotation of horford/smith/pachulia and a solid williams/evans roatation (i know, i know, we are ruining the development of morris and if we would only give him more minutes we would really see something).

in fact, the real question for the hawks is why evans ( a good defender and much more consistent shooter and scorer than williams) doesn’t start and get the majority of minutes at the three. would washington do something like williams and a pick for butler, by the way?

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i have to disagree about teague. Teague should play. its a matter of preparation. bibby should start. but he should not play over heavy mins. sometimes match ups need to be played not your favorite vet. i like bibby but not his def. he is a liablity against quick PGs. plus we play better when we push the ball. bibby does not push the rock. Also teague penetrates and gets to the hole. When bibby is in the game we play against set defenses most of the time. i understand your point about combo guards but you have to develop your talent. DET was a team of vets there young guys were up front sally and rodman.

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The Hawks have thrived in the spotlight this year?

Is the writer serious?

We lost twice to Cleveland and to Orlando twice.

Good job

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I saw that shot and damn near fell out!

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In his first day of being the new beat writer for the Hawks Michael Cunningham comes through with some great inside reporting. Fantastic job.
–At one point Woodson pleaded with Bibby to feed Al Horford in the post against Robin Lopez. Bibby obliged and Horford worked Lopez for two straight baskets. Then the Hawks went away from Horford. No, it didn’t make sense.
–With Lopez back on Horford in the third, Woodson again wanted it to go to him on the post but this time the Hawks didn’t even get it to him once. Horford led the Hawks with 24 points, but think what he might have done if not ignored for stretches.
A coach can draw plays, train players and prepare them for the game but only the players can execute game play. Coaching is like a aircraft carrier, quick turns are tough to do. Slowly but surely we are trending towards feeding the big’s more mostly at the expense of Bibby which is good. I would love to see the transition happen faster but if Josh and Al continue to play well it will happen. One reason I think we will continue to better over the next two years.

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great game last night.i am not a woody basher.i believe he has done a reasonably good job,however at some point you have to start developing young players.i watched randolph morris hold his own against dwight howard in high school.if he never get off the bench,we will never know what he is capable of.jeff teague went off for 35 points against carolina last year,but he never get a chance to get in a groove.i am afraid we will never be able to develop our young players

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The Hawks have played really well against a lot of elite teams. Even though we lost to the Cavs, we played really well except for the 4th quarters of those games. And don’t we still have a chance to win the protest and replay the last 90 seconds, or has that been settled?
Here’s what I don’t understand- why we get absolutely crushed by Orlando even when they are in the middle of a stretch where they can’t beat anybody else. I mean they just lost by 15 to Portland who was without Roy, Oden, Outlaw, and Pryzbilla and when you read the player quotes they sound like they are imploding. We absolutely need a better game plan, better effort, and a win against them later this month.

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i figure there is about 6 mill reason to play bibby over teague..lol ..but i like bibby, i just feel we should be developing teague not sitting him unless we are playing in a blowouts… Especially in back to back games. i would love to see teague on the floor with jamal joe josh and horford.

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Marvin William- If we could get a more consistent performance from “Duck” we could supplant Orlando for the third spot for good. I believe he is the key to getting to the conference finals.

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I’m truly not understanding why some people keep bringing up that Teague was the 7th pg taken or whatever it is. Marvin was selected number 2 overall and how has that worked out? Draft position means nothing. Bibby is looking older and older out there and at some point we need to develop our pg for the future. It looks like Bibby got 2 years too many on that contract. He is solid but there is no reason why Woodson cant find a way to get Teague consistent minutes. I actually like when Teague is handling the rock and Jamal is the guy getting fed the ball. Jamal can play some point but I prefer him playing more of the sg. I’m not saying start Teague but give the kid some consistent minutes out there and let him play through his mistakes. He wont get better playing 4 minutes here 10 minutes there and a few straight dnp’s. I could see if he was costing us games but he is not so can we please stop with the excuses of why he cant get a consistent 10 to 15 mpg.

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You dont let a rookie play through his mistakes at the teams expense .

Jamal plays both backcourt positions and he is by far the most dangerous against the top teams when is at the point guard position.

Bibbys minutes have already been cut and Teague cannot play off the ball because he has no jumpshot. So in games where we need to use jamal at point more he wont be getting many minutes. The only way Teague would get more minutes this year would be if he had a jumpshot .

Look at Jeryd bayless he had way more dnp-cd last season than teague will have this year and didnt have anyone nearly as talented in front of him.

Now this season he has gotten into the rotation and is doing well. .

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Josh Smith was the #17th pick, Marvin was the #2 pick, Darko and Adam Morrison #3, Gilbert Arenas was drafted #31. Just because Teague was drafted #19 does not mean he can’t be our starting PG as early as next season.

northcyde,

Ty Lawson was the 6th PG taken, but he got minutes early and often behind Chauncey Billups. Lawson excelled, so when Chauncey got hurt, Lawson was able to fill in admirably. I think with minutes, Teague can excel too.

What if Bibby gets hurt, then what? We would be forced to play Teague meaningful minutes, so why not give him more consistent minutes from now?

Plus there are games where Bibby is sucking, but yet he still gets major minutes. And when Nate Robinson was blowing us up, wouldnt it have been worth it to give Teague a chance to see if he can slow him down?

As for the switching, it does work. I just wish Woody would know when to adjust and go to something else. But he doesn’t. We switch every game, all the time. And in the playoffs, when you’re playing the same team potentially 7 times, adjustments will be made. I have no confidence in Woody when it comes to making adjustments.

OKC reminds me of the Hawks from 3 years ago. All they need now is one big name free agent, and they will take the next step. Marvin will have his hands full on Kevin Durant, and Bibby will have his hands full trying to guard Westbrook. Although with our switching, you never know who will end up on who.

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AJ,

FYI…. Farmar averaged 15.1 minutes in his rookie year.

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Does anyone here doubt the wisdom and experience of Four-time champ Gregg Popovich?

08-09: Rookie George Hill – 16.5 minutes
09-10: Rookie DuJuan Blair – 17.0 minutes

It CAN be done. I’m certainly not sure if Teague is as deserving of minutes as those two, but did Pop KNOW until he put them through the fire?

And before someone starts in, I’m NOT saying play Teague 16 minutes / game.

But I see NO reason why he couldn’t play a solid 10-12. Maybe all in the second quarter, unless he’s “messin’ up with a capital F”. (I stole that from Louis Armstrong). His assist to turnover ratio is quite good.

I’m a BIG Bibby fan and have been since his Ariz. days. Most folks don’t realize that when he showed up we immediately were averaging TWO fewer turnovers per game. Which, in a game like last night, could certainly be crucial. He does a great job taking care of the ball.

But I’m appalled at how much he seems to be losing his quickness in the last month. If we don’t do SOMETHING about the PG position (and I’m not saying that has to be Teague), then we WILL pay the consequences.

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JAMAL IS A BEAST.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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you play talent not sit it… minutes to a player are like water to a flower.. it allows them to blossom. i understand the stretching the floor peice but if this team is to win on defense then practice what you preach. teague is already a better defender than bibby. and he can stay in front of the more quicker guards in the league. when the hawks play guards that drive to the basket we get burned…teams with two slashing guards kill the hawks because bibby can’t hide..(cle. clt. hou. lac. nyk. orl. sat.). again i’m not saying start teague just give him more mins. And some minutes with the other starters. not to mention joe is still playing 40mins a game. it would be over 40 if it was’t for a few blowouts (some good /some bad).

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Here’s a quote from Woody a few weeks ago when Teague got some consistent burn:

(about Jeff Teague) Said Woodson, “He’s been playing pretty good for us. A lot of that is he’s getting a few minutes and he’s got some confidence going. That’s what it’s all about.”

If that’s what it’s all about, then isn’t the opposite true as well? When you get inconsistent minutes, you are less confident (especially as a rookie).

HOF Coach Popovich has figured this out. I wish Woody would. We need some help at PG.

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ricknole,

Most of us bloggers are NOT saying Teague that should be in the game down the stretch. All I’m saying is that he deserves 10-12 minutes every game (even if its all in the first 3 quarters).

When Woody had Royel Ivey, Ivey would start the game for the Hawks, and get most of his minutes early. But he would get very few minutes late. And that’s okay. Because he was getting consistent minutes almost every game.

Teague just needs 10-12 minutes every game, even if he doesnt play in the 4th quarter.

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And Mr. Cunningham,

As you’ve probably pieced together, we’re a fairly lively bunch, and there are a few Johnny Come Lately’s, but most of us were here for the LEAN years and most of us are true Hawks fans. We don’t expect a bunch of Rah Rah bull. If they play bably, they deserve whatever you, Bradley, or any other objective journalist has to say about them. In short Mr. Cunningham, just tell the truth as you see it to be, we’ll respect that, even if we don’t always agree. But for what it’s worth, I think you’ll have a much easier road than your predecessors. One thing’s for sure, you’re going to be following a much better team:)

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Sid,

So do you disagree with Woodson when he says:

“He’s been playing pretty good for us. A lot of that is he’s getting a few minutes and he’s got some confidence going. That’s what it’s all about.”

Woody says that time equals confidence. Do you disagree?

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Sid,

So its not okay for Teague to get consistent minutes, but yet you think he could become a spark off the bench if somebody gets hurt?

Isn’t that contradictory?

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Sid,

Sorry man, I’m not picking on your post. I just keep finding things to question.

You said this:

“Every game is gonna be important and one game could cost us homecourt in the second rd .”

Quite true, but Popovich will rest HOF TD on back to backs because he KNOWS that the playoffs are where Timmy will be needed. The West is MUCH more competitive than the East, but it doesn’t stop HIM from giving young players minutes. It’s just a different (and obviously more confident) approach.

I can’t speak for O’Brien and others who say he needs consistent minutes, but I’d say throw him in there and IF he’s F’n up pull him. Of COURSE he’s played poorly at times. All rookies do. All veterans do too at times.

As I mentioned, I’m VERY concerned that Bibby has lost a step and a half just lately. We MUST deal with his decline. I’m not over the top about Teague, but without making a deal, he’s our PLAN B for the near future. So give him some regular minutes and get his confidence up.

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AJ,

“What’s wrong qith making a young guy earn it? Why must everything come so easy?”

Don’t misunderstand me. If I hadn’t seen such a backward slide in Bibby’s quicks, I’d be fine having Teague “earn it”. But I’m extremely concerned having watched Bibby all these years, and now sliding backwards at (for me, anyway) an alarming rate. As I said, I’m NOT necessarily sold on Teague, but in this case I think we need to be prepared to ease Mike out (God I hated typing that), and unless we make a deal, then Teague is the most likely candidate.

I recognize that Craw is the de facto backup PG, but I remain unconvinced that we’re better off using him that way.

And why did Woody see fit to give Teague more consistent minutes earlier in the season? Had he “earned it” then?

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Yea Joe,

You know we’re doing pretty good when all we can find to hate on “My Boy” Woody is why our third string PG is not getting enough minutes. We’re tied for the 4th best record in the “freekin” NBA heading into the AllStar break and the topic of our conversation is Jeff “freekin” Teague. Who woulda thunk it?

People here also can’t seem to realize that the switching defense is what makes us unique. No other team can do it and get away with it. I watched Horford put “clamps” on Nash in crunch time. What other center in the league can do that?

Also, if you notice, while Bibby may be slow, he’s very strong for his size in his lower body. Many times bigs think they can post him easily but many times they are not able to move him. Whatever Woody’s doing. It’s working.

Woody=COY

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If Bibby got hurt, (30 min avg.), Jamal would play 40 min instead of 30. Evans is capable of bringing the ball up the court and handing the ball off to JJ. JJ can play the point. Of course Teague and Mario would get their shots at proving they deserve to play.

Worst cast scenerio (serious long term injury) I am sure we could get a PG for a Rando/Collins/Joe Smith or go to the D League.

Out of our top 6 players in minutes Bibby getting hurt is the least of our worries.

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The other popular exaggeration has to do with Jeff Teague. You say you want to see the kid get 10-12 mpg, and the Woody-ites act like you’re trying to give him the starting job and release Bibby from the team.

What’s wrong with 10-12 mpg? How did that turn into “give him the starting job” or “rush him into development, hurry, hurry!”

Obviously some games it’s good to keep Joe, Jamal, and Bibby playing more, but some games…surely he can get some experience.

What I find even more humorous is that if the kid does well, it’s “well, that was in garbage time, I’m not impressed.” But you don’t want him to have “real time”….so what gives? Is it just more convenient to talk bad about the kid and highlight his shooting percentage? Is it more convenient, because then you can say “see? Woody’s a good coach, he keeps that scrub on the bench.”

If using JJ as a point guard was a bad idea, then what makes using Crawford that way a good idea? Crawford is not our backup pg, he’s a security blanket (and a damn good one). He’s the first guard off the bench, and sometimes the only one (though I count Mo Evans as a 2, really). I ain’t complaining, I’m just calling it like it is. Every team Jamal has played for, he really has ended up being the 2. Why? Because he’s simply better “off the ball.” So we don’t have a backup pg . It’s just that simple.

I’m tired of hearing Acie Law’s name when it comes to rookie pgs and minutes. The guy got decent minutes until Bibby came, and that’s all there is to it. I mean, gee whiz, there was Lue and AJ in front of him. Of course you’re going to play the rookie. Law is not Teague, Teague is not Law. The players aren’t the same, and neither is the situation.

I know one thing is for certain: we haven’t lost any games because Teague got to play. Nor have we won any that way.

If it shouldn’t be so hard to believe that Teague hasn’t earned playing time, then it shouldn’t be too hard to believe that he HAS earned it. Who said anything was easy? Playing for Woody is easy? Hah! I rather doubt it. And I’m not saying it should be. But earning minutes may not always have anything to do with a guy playing. Point guard is a very important position. Teague may have earned the minutes, but Woody may feel better with a seasoned veteran in the game.

And along that vein of thinking, I have to say that if Teague doesn’t get minutes, it isn’t because he didn’t earn them. It’s because Woody saw fit to play whomever he saw fit to play, as he judged the situation at hand. And before a Woody-ite jumps on me, I’m not suggesting that he has always, or even often made the wrong decision in doing so.

Assuming that Teague didn’t play because he stunk it up in practice (or otherwise didn’t earn it) is just as presumptuous as assuming that Woody isn’t playing him at times, because he hates the kid. And where is playing time earned? In practice or in games? Both? We don’t know what happens in practice. We only see the games. So an assumption either way is folly.

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Hey whatever works, right!! I still say worse case scenerio if Bibby re-injures that ankle then we are in a tough spot. Crawford is not a PG. He can play PG for a little while but you really dont wont him playing PG for an extended amount of time. I think most people fear is that if Bibby hurts his ankle more severely then we will be forced to play Teague and that actually may cost us some games by not having him ready ahead of time especially when teams are jockying for playoff position late in the season.

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and Big Ray:

When you say Teague is playing 10.7 MPG, keep in mind that is just an average not what he actually plays per game. Some times he plays 2-4 mins or sometimes he gets DNP CD. When the Hawks were blowing opponents out his average went up along with all the other reserves because the game was already decided so they would just play the entire 4th quarter.

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I defitnitley agree when our starting pg is not in the game we have zero ball movement. I think Woodson is more concerned with winning now so he can get a new contract than some rookie getting minutes. You can hear him on the sidelines calling him “rook”. He dont even call him by his name but he says ” Hey rook” ” Come here rook”

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rms ,

No doubt. I know that Teague’s minutes vary from game to game. Northcyde had said that it was easy to see why Teague didn’t get 10-15 mpg. I was just pointing out that he DOES get just inside that range of PT. But you’re right. It’s not steady by any means, and I respect that fact that some games the coach decides that he needs to keep his veteran guards in there.

I may not always agree with it (I really think Teague should have gotten some decent minutes against NY, at least until he proved he was not going to be any help in the game), but I can understand it. I mean, what coach salivates at the idea of playing his rookie when he has three veteran guards he can use, two of which are 20ppg capable guys? It is what it is….

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rms ,

If this team wins 55 or more games, or otherwise manages to win the southeastern division, I think Woody can start making space on his wall for that COY plaque.

Then again, you never know. These awards are funny things. They may give it to the coach of the OKC Thunder, especially if they keep winning like they are, and make the playoffs. Particularly if they make the playoffs at a higher seed than 8th.

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rms and Big Ray great post… Its like if a person suggest Teague gets a consistent 10 to 15 minutes on here certain guys act as if you want Teague to start or we need to bury Bibby on the bench. No one is saying that. What we are saying is give the kid some time and let him blossom and see what he can do out there. How hard is that to understand?.. And I see certain guys only come around when we win to pat their boy on the back but when we were losing I didn’t see any post what so ever. But hey I guess its like he said, when we win its because of Woodson and when we lose its because of the players. Funny how that works.

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i’ll try this again using a short version (maybe, we’ll see).

if you give teague 10-15 minutes a game (assuming a close, meaningful game for 48 minutes), where do you take it? if just the guards, assume johnson/bibby/crawford only play the 1 or 2 then that is 96 minutes for three proven, veteran, BETTER guards. 32 each (if you happen to be mathematically challenged). take 12 minutes away and now you are talking 28 each. are you freakin kidding me?!?!?! of course it doesn’t work like that. lets take woodson’s habit of overplaying johnson and assume he just played the standard 36-38 minutes that any star (and if the hawks have one, he is it) should play. lets say 38 because that is much closer to reality. so now you have 58 for bibby and crawford. @ 30 is probably right for bibby and maybe a little low for crawford, but ok. but if you take ten minutes out of that, now they are talking about 24 minutes each for the two of them. again, what universe do you live in where that is how the veteran, proven, only real half court offense you have players get those kind of minutes (awful sentence, but you get the meaning and i am too lazy to go back).

the point is this is not the time or the team or the place for teague to get a taste in any other situation besides blow outs. AND THAT IS A GOOD THING!!!!

and if you start talking about johnson getting some minutes at the three, we could do the very same exercise in minutes not being enough to include williams/evans/pachulia/smith/horford, not to even mention the other smith.

those of you who are clamoring for teague do not know basketball in my opinion.

cheers!

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Let me take that back. Evans only has 1 DNP on the year. But Woody has opted to put Teague in the game and play him, before playing Evans, on a few occasions.

Stevo . . . another thing that people aren’t addressing, when it comes to Teague’s playing time, is the overall play of the 2nd unit this season. They’ve been, as a group, below average at best. Yet, people keep insisting that Woody “develop” the bench. Don’t lose the game . . . but develop the bench. It just doesn’t make any sense. We are in no position to sacrifice possible games, just to develop people.

You think Phil Jackson is “losing sleep”, because he can’t find any minutes to develop Adam Morrison?

We’re not a rebuilding franchise anymore.

He has to play the bench, but he doesn’t have to leave them in the game if they’re going to play poorly.

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man, that is the second post of mine that has been lost to cyber nowhere or somewhere or i don’t know where (and that first one was good). maybe someone in power doesn’t like what i have to say.

fair enough. lets try this:

‘nunna yo…’, you claim woody isn’t using and/or developing the bench. but if you compare the hawks’ starters average minutes to the starters on any other top team, they are generally less. almost across the board. so by what measure do you make that assertion?

it rings false and hollow and ill-informed (at best) to me. please enlighten me so i am no longer confused.

cheers!

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2010 vrs 2009, Teague vrs Acie Law
Teague 3.7% of minutes, Acie Law 2.8 % of minutes.

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When you are getting beat because the opposing pg is so quick, why not put your quickest defender on him? Or why not make the opposing pg have to guard a quick pg like Teague. Bibby is the slowest, least athletic guard in the NBA.

Woody’s well thoughtout game plan, “Bibby, give the ball to ISO Joe”

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6th man – Crawford
7th man – Zaza
8th man – Mo
9th man – Teague/Joe Smith
10th man – Teague/Joe Smith

Depending on the game situation, Teague is going to be the 9th or 10th man off the bench.

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northcyde, i think mario will be an option before teague is played now that he is on board. as good a mario is he woludnt have stopped the slash of nate or other quicks. havent we seen that before? the guys like parker that hammer us watched him totally take over a game last year when ginobli and duncan wewre not even dressed and bowen was mainly on the bench in much the same fashion nate did last year. mario didnt stop those guys before and he wont stop them now. he is relentless but not that quick or fast for the real quicks in the league. teague has now slumped to the 10th or11th man if he stays in uniform and on the bench. randmo might be in front of him and only collins behind him.

as so eloquently put by fritz, to not use teague and develop him it also doesnt address the glaring needs the offense has at times when its shooters arent shooting and the passing lanes are not open to get it into the interior. jamal can get the ball there sometimes but not as reliably as teague. teague has the capacity to naturally get into the face of the defense with his quickness and ability to not cause turnovers, a weakness of acie’s in comparison. mario will not help the offense one lick. it is teague’s ability to penetrate that isnt being developed that ultimately slow the progress of this team into the champions i think we can become. if it isnt teague then sund better keep an eye on the waiver list to see if someone doesnt fall off the moon into his hands. if not this season then in the off season as bibby, jamal, jj and mario are not the answer to those particular match ups. look carefully because that is how we are swamped against orlando; their point guards seem to have their day with us including a guy that we rejected going off on us last year.

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Well said northcyde…. Teague doesnt play because he cant shoot, it doesnt matter how bad bibby/crawwford are defensively they make up for it with big shots.

Obrien-Ty lawson is better than Teague at this point even tho he fell in the draft. He is just as quick as Teague but he hits shots and has forced Karl to play him

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Ray, to assume that Teague has earned PT and isn’t being given the time is to assume that either Woody thinks that he can deny a draft pick of his boss a right to play… or to assume that his boss isn’t monitoring Teague’s development. I just don’t see how a guy with about 6 months left on his contract can boldly hold back the progress of a Sund draft pick (without dire consequence). Unless, of course, 50+ wins is deemed more important than developing the 7th PG in the draft (heaven forbid).

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Nice discussion last night, guys.

Northcyde, you made some good points about Lawson and Blair.

You also said this about Woodson:

“He has to play the bench, but he doesn’t have to leave them in the game if they’re going to play poorly.”

Why does that not apply to Teague? Play him and if he’s playing poorly, pull him. But play him.

OK I understand that he would shorten someones minutes. In my estimation (as much as I hate to say it) it should be Bibby’s minutes. And if Teague’s shooting doesn’t improve with some burn, PULL HIM!

I think Woody is wrong to tell Crawford “shoot first” IF he’s also going to be the backup PG. The shoot first thing should be when he’s playing off the ball.

Yes, Crawford HAS the ability to set up teammates (as shown with the two 4th quarter dimes to Josh). If he transforms into “distributor first” when Bibby is not in the game, than I’m fine with Teague sitting. But I tire of seeing the ball go from Jamal to Joe to Jamal to Joe for a contested jumper when Bibby is out. I think that when Jamal plays PG, he defers way too much to JJ. One reason I like Teague is his concerted effort to set up teammates. Jamal COULD do this excellently IF that was what he was TOLD to do.

Most of all I want ball movement, and even with Bibby in the game it can come to a halt.

I’m pleased that this discussion has remained civil. Isn’t it nice that we have the luxury of discussing the 9th or 10th mans minutes? That’s an indicator of a so far successful season.

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There’s a lot of mention of Teague getting more playing time. But Teague has been highly unproductive during the minutes he’s been given. It’s true that minutes help develop a player, but there is still no explanation for why Teague is unproductive during that allotted stretch of playing time. At the end of the day, all stats are adjusted on a per 48 minute basis. And Teague does almost nothing right.

Here’s a look at what he does during those 48 minutes:

Adjusted Field Goal %: 39.2%, the avg. PG has an Adj. FG% of 47.4% (one can surmise that Teague is way below average in this respect).

Points scored: 16.1, the avg. PG scores 18.4 points per 48 minutes.

Assists/game: 9.2, the avg. PG gathers 8.4 assists per 48 minutes.

Blocked shots: .9, the avg. PG blocks .3 shots per 48 minutes.

Rebounds/game: 5.1, the avg. PG grabs 4.7 boards per 48 minutes.

Steals/game: 2.8, the avg. PG forces approximately 2.0 turnover per 48 minutes.

Examining the data, as previously mentioned, Teague is below average with respect to shooting efficiency and scoring. Naturally, he averages more shot attempts (17.1) than points (16.1). He is also below average with respect to ball-handling (3.3 turnovers per 48 minutes), and avoiding foul trouble (avg. of 6.0 personal fouls/game).

Of course, he also happens to be above-average in a lot of other areas, particularly at blocking shots and stealing the basketball. If he could shoot far less, and do a lot more of the other things he does do well, his net production would rise dramatically (and should help him garner more playing time).

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I’d like to condense all of the why Woody… talk down to one simple thing.

Not who is better, or who should get developed, or what style is most effective against which team.
It is simply self preservation.

The ASG put Woody on a short contract. It gave them the (self preserving,) money saving flexibility to ditch him if he bombed without having to pay lots of money over lots of years. It gave Sund the self preserving, not my coach out.

Now that Woody is close to the end of this deal, he once again coaches in a self preserving mode. If your deal is up at the end of this season, it matters not how good Teague is next year. It matters not what happens with JJ’s contract situation. What does matter is how you can win now. I suspect that is why Mario is back and Othello is out. Woody is comfortable with Mario’s role. He will take that 13th man to battle way before taking the resources to figure out how Hunter may have best fit.

If I were Woody’s agent or friend, the advice would be exactly this…Limit thoughts, focus on what to do to keep job as NBA head coach. Winning fixes your issues. Worry about next year after this one is done. End of long term analysis.

…and blog-o-matic (that’s you @MC, nothing personal, just very prolific) has a NEW BLOG UP.

BWAF

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