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Wizards-Hawks thread

6:39 pm January 13, 2010, by Ken Sugiura

Greetings, all-

Thanks for all the love. It really means a lot to have passed muster with you guys. Just a couple notes, and we’ll get to the game.

1) Mario West is going to dress tonight. Zaza Pachulia is at home with flu symptoms, so Mike Woodson won’t have to sit anyone to see what “Greasy,” as he’s known, can do. As you can imagine, West was pretty fired up about getting an opportunity.

2) Mo Evans may not play. His wife is delivering their first child. Woodson didn’t know where things stood when we talked to him, around 5:40.

3) I asked Woodson about playing zone against the Celtics, particularly how much they’ve played it in the past and this year.

“We played (some) zone last year. Probably the year before we played zone a lot. It’s kind of shrunk over the last couple years but two years ago, we played zone a lot. That won us a lot of games. Last year, we played it some. Mainly, we tried to play it in back-to-back games where you kind of, instead of chasing guys a lot, it kind of bought us some time to keep guys strong towards the end of the game. But against the Celtics, our coaches suggested zone and we went with it. It was nice to see because it kind of caught them a little off guard.”

“We’ve played zone a few times this season.”

Is there a particular reason you haven’t used it as much?

“It’s a long season. As the season wears on, we’ll probably start playing some more of it when we get time to practice and really work at it. It’’s easy to do with the guys that have been here, our starters, because they know it. But we did it with Jamal (Crawford) on the floor the other night, and it was pretty good.”

As requested, UGA’s Travis Leslie’s dunk against Kentucky.

If you missed the link posted in the comments, an si.com story about Jamal Crawford.

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255 comments Add your comment

KevinA

January 14th, 2010
11:03 am

http://www.slamonline.com/online/blogs/the-links/2010/01/links-embedded-with-the-atlanta-hawks

KevinA

January 14th, 2010
11:09 am

An amazing thing to say for a head coach. I do not care about the offfense. The offense is not the problem. Is he on drugs?

KevinA

January 14th, 2010
11:14 am

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop

Another artical with less reading and the same quote.

KevinA

January 14th, 2010
11:37 am

http://www.hoopinionblog.com/?gcid=C12289×022&gtkw=Hoopinion

Looking for Mario love? – You won’t find it here.

Then Jamal said…………..
“If I miss my first 10 shots, that doesn’t faze me. In the fourth quarter, I make my shots.”

darrell starks

January 14th, 2010
11:48 am

I no its was a number game but mario should have never been cut.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

Ramon

January 14th, 2010
12:04 pm

Look, Marvin is what he is. Yea he was picked #2. But Joe Smith was picked #1, and who do you think is going to have the better career? Marvin isn’t a let down as a pro. I mean he is still good enough to start for a playoff team. That is FAR from a draft bust. Marvin comes to play every game he plays. And although he’s clumsy, I can honestly say that I see him out there hustling and trying to do what he can. I’ve never seen Marvin have the wrong attitude about a play. You can’t get mad at Marvin because he was picked #2. He didn’t pick himself there. But if the Hawks came and drafted ANYONE of us at #2, knowing over half of you guys aren’t in shape, would you still not accept the contract for 6 mil a year? Marvin gives it his all. I’m happy with that.

JeJe

January 14th, 2010
12:18 pm

LOL Woodson said he doesn’t give a !@#$ about the offense.

Is that why we went 9+ minutes against Cleveland without a basket? If we had scored at all in those minutes we probably would’ve won that game. While he is right about defense, until we start running actual plays on offense and Woodson uses the bench in close games, this team is done in 4 in the 2nd round

I MUS WRITE

January 14th, 2010
12:22 pm

Wait a minute did i miss sumthing???? ” Im Gay” “I Wear Pink”, Come on officer this is not the forum for you to be coming outta the closet. Jeezuz get urself together sir- I can call u sir cant I?

Get’em -Woody took the chain off of his attack dog, Looking back on training camp Mario should have been retained over Hunter- he really brings an element to this team that no one else does. Besides that I know rio and he’s a stand up guy im glad he’s back. I wish the play was’nt blown dead when he blocked Haywood-That was gonna be Sports center material LOL.

I want to see Woody sub his entire starting 5, and go with this line up for a few minutes..
Teague,Crawford,Mario,Mo,Zaza

Rod CP- forget about it man-sum people are so far up Marvins azz they will never see him for what he is- A Career Role Player-Thats it Thats all. His role is a lil different this year becuz we have more fire power but Marvin disappears like David Blain a lil too much for me.
JeJe- Chills is’nt a defensive stopper by any stretch of the imagination, He had alot of trouble stying in front of guys and he would get man handled within 12 feet of the rim -too light in the britches. Mo is probably equal to him defensively,but Mo is a much better shooter so they kind of cancel each other out.

JeJe

January 14th, 2010
12:25 pm

Jerry Stackhouse wants to go to the Hawks if he returns.

GET RID OF RIO AND SIGN STACKHOUSE. IT’S BAD ENOUGH WE HAVE MO EVANS AS A KEY BENCH PLAYER. GET A REAL UNC VET

mountainman36

January 14th, 2010
12:26 pm

thanks KevinA – nice read.

Im ok with woody not worrying about offense. defense wins games, and our offense is fine. Arent we up at the top of the league????especially at that time of the season…

JeJe – thanks for the negativity. You try managing all the aspects of an NBA coach. see you you do. No the offence isnt perfect, but its a dang sight better than most other teams.

with our DEFENSE we almost won a game where we didnt score in 9 minutes….what does that tell you?

I MUS WRITE

January 14th, 2010
12:27 pm

R.I.P Teddy P……. “Turn off ther Lights and light a candle…”

If you guys and gurls can find it in you heart support the people of haiti, they are in a terrible position right now….. I spent 4 months of my life in that place and they needed the money before the quake but even more so now……..

JeJe

January 14th, 2010
12:29 pm

Teague,Crawford,Mario,Mo,Zaza

Terrible lineup. Mo and Mario are the same size. Why not put Joe Smith in at PF? We need to sign Stackhouse. The guy has had a year to heal his injuries. He’s a career 19 ppg player and doesn’t need huge minutes. He can’t possibly demand much money if he has received so few offers.

Mo Evans is too small, overrated defender, and puts up no numbers for us. Maybe once every 3 weeks he has a good game

Daniel

January 14th, 2010
12:30 pm

Guys, looking over the comments from last night. I have to say this is one of the worst blogs in recent memory. Northcyde had a nice post about this same subject. I really don’t see the point in comments like:
this team is not elite (really?, who besides the Lakers are? who are you rooting for anyway?)
This team will lose in the second round of the playoffs (really? what does that have to do with a mid Janurary game against the Wiz?…idiot)
Woody said in an article(that we all read and discussed months ago) that he didn’t care about the offense (really? he was clearly making a point about how he values defense over offense, but go ahead and run with it…. just should have done it when the article actually came out)

You guys know I love the Hawks and I love blogging about them, but really we can do better than this crap….

Daniel

January 14th, 2010
12:36 pm

IMUS- That’s what’s up (Harold Melvin and the Bluenotes-Wake up everybody (would be appropriate))
I have made my contribution to the Haitian relief effort through my church.
Word up brother.

terrell barron

January 14th, 2010
12:43 pm

Rod, I know you just didn’t compare Marvin to Deangelo Hall? Deangelo Hall was a misfit who was detremental to the team. All Marvin does is what he’s asked to do. I’m sure He’s not the player that you thought he’d be, but I be damned if Im going to give up on a 23 year old basketball player WHO HAS SHOWN FLASHES. Especially if he’s on my team. and .

vava74

January 14th, 2010
12:48 pm

interesting link:

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/john_schuhmann/01/14/numbers.game/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

GeeMack

January 14th, 2010
12:49 pm

KevinA

Those are some great reads. Thanks. The one from slam was very interesting.

I like Woody’s attitude were defense is concerned. We all know defense wins championships, and it’s harder to condition basketball players to play defense every night, than play offense

As Hawks fan we tend to forget the Hawks are one of the top offensive teams in the league. It’s our lapses on defense that causes us to lose games we should win. I am fine with what Woody said. He also said we could score with any body, but we win by playing bette defense.

Daniel

January 14th, 2010
12:56 pm

vava- very interesting link. Don’t know how valuable that stuff is, because “you are what your record is”. But, I can bet you can guess who will blame whom for why the Hawks are “underachieving”

GeeMack

January 14th, 2010
12:57 pm

The homie Daniel hitting the nail on the head again. Woody is a good coach, and he has proved as long as we bring him talent he can win.

GeeMack

January 14th, 2010
1:04 pm

vava74 & Daniel

Great article. Not sure I understand it, but some interesting stuff.

Daniel

January 14th, 2010
1:09 pm

I am with you Gee about the article. Kinda interesting but also leads you to say So? If they could link that stat with playoff performance, then I would be a lot more interested.

Rod from College Park

January 14th, 2010
1:39 pm

terrell barron,

“Rod, I know you just didn’t compare Marvin to Deangelo Hall? Deangelo Hall was a misfit who was detremental to the team. All Marvin does is what he’s asked to do.”

I surely did not compare them, I put a response to your statement about, because Marvin plays for the Hawks I should support him. I am a Falcon Fan also, and I did not support D. Hall, not because of the reasons you probably would say, but because he did not live up to his hype or his draft status, and fundamentally was not a good corner to me. I could care less about his attitude, and what he did in his private life. Similar to Marvin, he has not lived up to his hype or draft status, and to me is not a fundamentally good basketball player. He actually does not do what he is asked to do, because he was asked by the gm and the coach at the beginning of the year, after the contract was signed to step up his game. He has not done that this year.

I MUS WRITE,

“Rod CP- forget about it man-sum people are so far up Marvins azz they will never see him for what he is- A Career Role Player-Thats it Thats all. His role is a lil different this year becuz we have more fire power but Marvin disappears like David Blain a lil too much for me.”

Agreed. Teddy P. will be missed.

JSS

January 14th, 2010
1:49 pm

Hello Again Hawks fans…

For those of you who have not ventured over to the fan blog today. As many of you know, there has been a great tragedy in Haiti… Blogger “Ted Striker” and I are asking you to get involved in aiding the victims…

I set up a Facebook cause page for the Haitian Relief effort
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=426507305332&ref=search&sid=819343849.3665709771..1

Hey all of you Woody Supporters, Woody Haters, JJ fans, J-Smoove fans, Anti Marvin, miss J-Chills, 13th man, Tech or UGA fans!!! Please step up to the plate!!! Please tell me what you think! If we can improve the site and possibilities of helping to get more bloggers to contribute to any of the worthy charities and NGO’s that are on the ground in Haiti, post a message…
Thanks again to “Ted Striker” (he is traveling on business today) and to all of the blog moderators on the AJC staff for letting me post on their blogs…

JMar

January 14th, 2010
1:50 pm

Mario West is terrible, both offensively and defensively. I’ve never seen any reason to believe otherwise. He may be good enough now to start for Georgia Tech. People love his hustle, but I prefer hustle that actually accomplishes something, and isn’t just for show.

theZaZaguy

January 14th, 2010
1:56 pm

For me personally, I like to have an emotional attachment to my team. I enjoy liking them as people not just their stats. I’m not saying I want to be friends with them or anything, but it adds to my enjoyment as a fan to follow them on more than one level. The packers have it in Green Bay. The fans and players love and feed off each other.

Having said that, I really have a strong affinity for this team, not just as players, but as good decent quality young men. No gun fights, no rehab, and no unneeded drama.

There are countless stories about the deep character of these guys. Jamal getting mixed up with the bloods but making it out and becoming a star, Marvin stepping up to pay for his younger siblings college education, Bibby written up in the Wall Street Journal as the anti-Iverson who helps his friends by putting them on payroll, Al’s relationship with his family and community back in the Dominican. The stories go on and on.

Josh can be brash, but deep inside he’s a Momma’s boy and I mean that in a good way. His Mom comes to every game, and you can see the special relationship they have (Not to mention I thought Josh was wearing a wig the first time I saw her).

And of course ZaZa, in it for the long haul. He’s the reason Joe Smith is here. Go ahead with your bashing, and your stat references. I will continue to be a fan the way I know how.

Go Hawks!

darrell starks

January 14th, 2010
1:57 pm

Jmar what you mean mario is terrible?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

cp

January 14th, 2010
2:04 pm

Like I’ve said before, Mario is a nice story and all but calm down people. One poster said we would have two more wins if we had Mario the whole season lolllllll. You cant be serious. The kid hustles and all but he is still a poor ball handler and cant shoot. I’m with JMar as far as hustle that produces something….Mario is the same player he was when he left Ga Tech……. The Nets are trying to trade Josh Boone. He is a big who can block shots and rebound. I wouldnt mind having him on the bench.

Daniel

January 14th, 2010
2:12 pm

Nice post ZaZa guy. I cannot agree with you more.

vava74

January 14th, 2010
2:13 pm

The point I wanted to make about the article is simple:

Some don’t give these Hawks the credit they deserve.

Others do.

We have both views very much alive around here, however, my take is simple:

Many are critical of Woody and of the Hawks pointing out some fair and reasonable arguments (myself included), however, they also neglect to acknowledge the merit inherent to our record.

We are not a rich franchise (owners have been losing money every single year) and our roster, although quite good, is not stocked with all stars. At least not yet since Josh and Al may break into the game this year.

Hence, our record and our performance has been very very good and we should enjoy what we have right now, specially since we were 13-69 just a few years ago.

Finally, people complain that we do not win against elite teams… well, guess what: we are 3-0 against Boston, swept Portland, split the series with Denver and gave Cleveland a good run for their money going against 8 guys on the floor.

Orlando is a different matter: we match up badly against them but we should not forget that in the ATL game we were up at the half time before the refs gave a green light to Howard plow through the paint with his elbows to Al’s chest and swallowed the whistle in several drives where JJ was hammered in the third quarter. Just 4 or 5 non calls and a double digit advantage turns into nothing.

Let’s wait and see.

GeeMack

January 14th, 2010
2:20 pm

JeJe

I’m not sure what Stackhouse will be bring, but this team is not losing cause they can’t score.

We lose when we stop bringing it on the defensive end, that why the Mario move makes sense.

kwooden1

January 14th, 2010
2:26 pm

It’s interesting to read the negative comments about Mario, because they don’t really apply to his current situation.
#1 Woody loves him! That means he will play! Anybody else you bring in will sit on the bench. cp, that especially applies to bigs!
#2 Our issue has been perimeter defense. See Orlando and NY games. Mario wants to defend!
#3 Our other issue is key rebounds. Mario goes after every rebound likes it’s his last!

No where on that list are there issues with ball handing and shooting. I know Mario can’t really dribble or shoot, but that doesn’t matter in this situation. O. Hunter is a better ball handler and shooter, but he sat on the bench!! Mario will play, which means other guys can rest, but more importantly it means there’s a guy on this team that gets playing time only because of Effort! It will be a wake-up call for Teague and Morris, if they want to play they’re going to have to bring more effort.

GO HAWKS!!!

theZaZaguy

January 14th, 2010
2:34 pm

Agreed GeeMack.

Like Charles Barkley said,”Any knucklehead can shoot, but it takes brains to play defense.” When Woody said that he doesn’t give a s@#^ about offense, I think he meant that the offense is fine. Which is true since I think we’re close to leading the league in points scored.

Contrary to popular belief, they do run plays. Pretty much every Smoove alley-oop is off a well executed play and Bibby gets a lot of open looks due to plays run for him.

Our Stifling, turnover inducing, switching, choking up the passing lanes, 3 second violation inducing defense is a thing of beauty to watch.

I just remember being in the restroom and hearing a father ask his three year old son “Who’s your favorite hawk”. The little boy answered, “the defense”. Priceless.

doc

January 14th, 2010
2:36 pm

zaza guy my sentiments as well, nicely stated.

vava you dont have to worry about match ups with orlando … we got mario now.

terrell barron

January 14th, 2010
3:05 pm

Hornets traded Hilton Armstrong for a 2nd rdr? Damn! Wouldn’t mind him backing up Horford. Oh well.

theZaZaguy

January 14th, 2010
3:05 pm

Has anyone noticed that Horford is slowly but surely bulking up? He started at 235. Then he was listed at 245 and now he’s 247. He’s put on the extra 12 pounds without affecting his touch or quickness. Which is natural considering he’s doing it properly, slow and gradual. He’s 23 years old. Most men “fill out” at about age 25. If he can get to about 255-260 and maintain his agility and skill that would be key. Why do I mention this?

We like everyone else have problems against Orlando due to Dwight’s physical prowess. Not his skill or smarts, but he just manhandles us. Dwight Howard is 265 lbs. Horford doesn’t have to be just as strong as Dwight. But if he can succeed in not getting pushed around or out-quicked (like Zaza is so often) he can go single coverage and totally change the game against Orlando. He already owns Kendrick Perkins. And Hack a Shaq with Cheesburger Collins, RandMo, and Zaza should do the trick (not to mention Shaq is older than me). This will be the last piece to fall into place for the Hawks to start to overcome and not just contend with the elites.

Ken Strickland

January 14th, 2010
3:23 pm

VALVA74-excellent comments. You’re correct when you say we don’t matchup well with Orlando. However, that can be partially remedied if Woodson possessed enough insight, flexibility, imagination and courage to effectively use the talent on his bench to create better matchups for us, and/or worse matchups for them.

If your starting lineup and style of DEF doesn’t matchup has consistently proven ineffective, why would you continue to stubbornly overplay the same players and use the same DEF? Defensively, JCollins could provide an interesting one on one physical challenge for DHoward, and RMorris and his smooth inside moves could provide an interesting challenge for any of their PF’s. Teague would provide a far superior challenge for JNelson than MBibby, on both ends of the court.

Former GM BKnight put together a very quick, fast, athletic, talented and versatile core of young players, and current GM RSund added depth and experience to the mix. The biggest complaint against Woodson has been his unwillingness, or inability, to use consistent strategy and/or consistently utilize the majority of those aforementioned attributes.

As good as this team has been, in terms of won/loss record and overall achievements, it’s still underachieving, and Woodson, along with his limited halfcourt OFF, are the weak links.

Daniel

January 14th, 2010
3:28 pm

It only took 2 and 1/2 hours for my prediction to come true.

Melvin

January 14th, 2010
3:50 pm

It’s funny how Woody prides himself on defense or label himself as a defensive minded coach when he didn’t play a lick of defense as a player. Woody was known for his nice jumpshot (Is there’s a coincidence that the Hawks have a jump shooting oriented offense). Now that he’s a coach, he has become a defensive guru… Yeah, ok.

Sautee

January 14th, 2010
4:21 pm

What does it tell you when we have more people “hatin’ on the perceived “haters” than all the “haters” out there.

Folks, there’s no way that everybody is gonna perceive this team the same.

Enjoy what we have and if you disagree with a poster just scroll on down.

Some of these posts kill me with the “need” for a homogeneous “lets all think the same way” mentality.

Can you even imagine how boring this blog would be?

Mac-Town'z Finest 478

January 14th, 2010
4:37 pm

I agree with Sautee 1000%

I will be a Hawks fan no matter if they win 10 or 60 games. I look at myself as someone who wants whats BEST for the TEAM and may seem critical at times because I just think and want us to do so much better……but if you disagree with someone on here or have some critique (or complaint) they dont agree with (especially if its about A player)…..oh then that automatically makes you not a “real fan”….

Ramon

January 14th, 2010
4:39 pm

I’m not in love with Marvin. I’ve suggested many trades where Marvin would be packing his bags. But I can’t recall the last game that we lost that was because of Marvin’s play directly. The biggest three problems this team has is not Marvin related. Marvin has nothing to do with the fact that no one in the back court can stop the opposing guards from penetrating any time they desire. People say Marvin is just a role player and that is ok. What was the last championship team that didn’t have at least ONE starter who was nothing but a role player? When Boston won, Perkins (and Rondo at the time) was nothing more than a role player. Actually people look at Ray Allen as a member of the big three, but would any of you trade Marvin for Ray? San Antonio has never been more than a bunch of role players surround Duncan, Parker, Ginobli. Finley, Bowen, nor Barry produced more than what Marvin produces now. I get frustrated by somethings from Marvin. However, I realize that if we upgrade the PG play, and the subtract the amount of shot attempts that goes up from the perimeter, the Hawks would be able to compete with anyone night in and night out.

JerryWest

January 14th, 2010
4:43 pm

Stackhouse thinks Hawks are a perfect fit for him.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64033/20100114/with_preference_for_atlanta_stackhouse_hopes_for_nba_return/

We have been amazingly injury free so far. The law of average always catches up. We need to prepare for it.

You can’t find a better and cheaper injury protection than Stackhouse.

Ramon

January 14th, 2010
4:49 pm

Now, I will say this, I would be in favor of a Marvin/Teague (or Bibby) for Jamison trade all day long! lol.

mountainman36

January 14th, 2010
5:00 pm

right there with you Ken.

with the other guys – gotta disagree about Mario. i think hes good, and desrves to be on an NBA team. he had a lot of rebounds and even a few points last night…he is a spark, that we sometimes need.

Rod from College Park

January 14th, 2010
5:03 pm

Sautee,

Maybe the hater haters want us all to hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

richbrave

January 14th, 2010
5:09 pm

HAWKS fans:

The latest segment of “AS THE WIZARDS TURN.”

“Wizards guard Gilbert Arenas was charged Thursday with felony gun possession, a crime that carries a maximum five years in jail and a fine, authorities said.
The charge was announced Thursday afternoon by the U.S. Attorney’s office for the District.
Arenas’s attorney and prosecutors had been negotiating a plea deal during the day and it was not immediately clear whether the filing of charges was a part of the deal. Court officials said they had been told to prepare to have Arenas in Superior Court on Friday.”

“D.C. and Arlington police searched the home of Washington Wizard Javaris Crittenton Thursday morning looking for a gun he reportedly used in a locker room confrontation with teammate Gilbert Arenas, according to sources familiar with the investigation.
Police did not find the gun at his Arlington home in the 7:15 a.m. search, one of the sources said.”

My prediction. ARENAS is found guilty of a misdemeanor, gets a suspended sentance, has to do more community service than he already is, and pays a heavy fine. The indeterminate NBA suspension is given a limit, another fine, and finally whatever the WIZARDS want to do with him. But he stays. And he plays. That contract is untradable, and not voidable at this point. Nothing less than a felony conviction will suffice for that. Ain’t happenin’. The franchise has to deal with the poison pill that contract represents for the next four and one-half seasons. There is a player option before the 2012-2013 season. Think GIL will exercise it? Me too. 20.5 mill that season.

JAVARIS skins out of the mess with nothing but here-say evidence against him. The brandishing a loaded weapon will not prove out, but CRITTENTON will never wear a WIZARDS uni again. And his 1.45 mill is up at the end of the season.

There’s a very good point guard coming onto the market soon HAWKS fans, if you’re interested. Personally, if I were a GM, I would consider it.

terrell barron

January 14th, 2010
5:18 pm

No thanks Richbrave. I want no part of Javaris. I’ll take my chances with Jef Teague. As a matter of fact, I think he’ll have a hard time catching on with any NBA team.

richbrave

January 14th, 2010
5:23 pm

I think you may be right t.b., but the kid has game. His head is his worst enemy.

richbrave

January 14th, 2010
5:33 pm

JEFF TEAGUE is the equivilent of CRITTER without the baggage.

JeJe

January 14th, 2010
5:35 pm

Yes! OUr team has a lot of character!

That far is more important than winning! Good poitn

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