Cleveland, Cleveland
Greetings, all-
What to make of Tuesday night?
Jamal Crawford’s take: “We had a rough stretch scoring the ball and that hasn’t been the case all year. We look at it as a fluke, laying an egg, and hopefully come out tomorrow and get a win.”
I don’t know if I entirely agree with him, but I don’t think he’s so far off. I don’t know what happened in the fourth quarter. Crawford said that pressure built with each failed possession. Al Horford said that Cleveland defended the transition differently and caught the Hawks by surprise. After a sizzling start, Joe Johnson might have been as ineffective as I’ve seen him. Obviously, Cleveland had something to do with it. The Cavs are one of the best defensive teams in the league – first in points in the paint allowed, second in defensive field goal percentage and fourth in points allowed per game. Earlier this season, they held Milwaukee scoreless for more than 11 minutes.
Mike Brown, before Tuesday’s game: “Guys are doing a nice job limiting teams to one shot. There were stretches (in the season) where we were getting hurt on the offensive glass, there were stretches where we got hurt in transition. There was a stretch where we were turning the ball over and our floor balance wasn’t great and we were getting hurt real bad with some easy baskets. We’ve kind of done a decent job of trying to clean that up. Our guys have been focusing on those areas and done a better job of not letting those easy buckets happen to us.”
But, it did seem fluky. I (and you, I imagine) have grown accustomed to the Hawks making good decisions with the ball – or at least not turning it over – and they were just haphazard, particularly in the fourth quarter. I guess the tougher part is teasing out how much pressure and defense had to do with it, and how much was the Hawks just imploding.
Some links:
Jeff Schultz’s column from the game.
“I think we put too much pressure on ourselves to go win a game instead of just playing the way we know how to play,” Josh Smith said. “We definitely thought about this game too hard.”
Hawks pre-game?
Cleveland Plain-Dealer’s game story.
(The Cavaliers) have never done what they enforced on the Hawks in this one, stuffing them for nearly nine minutes in the fourth quarter.
espn.com’s Daily Dime.
qualitatively it was shocking how little had changed from the playoff series nearly eight months ago.
Anyway, going forward.
Why the Hawks will win
1. Few gave them much of a chance in Boston and Dallas, and they won there. (The Dallas game, you’ll remember, followed the New York loss, one of the worst of the season. Josh Smith got tossed, the starters played extended minutes and it looked for all the world like Dallas would run the Hawks out of the gym. Interestingly, Crawford said pretty much the same thing following that New York game that he did Tuesday. This is a pretty confident group, and I didn’t sense any self-doubt in the locker room after the game.)
2. I think the Hawks think or know they can play with Cleveland, and I don’t think they’re scared. As poorly as the Hawks played offensively at times, they did a pretty solid job on Cleveland defensively, particularly in the second half. Marvin Williams defended admirably against LeBron James (and had a solid night overall), although I’m not sure where to draw the Marvin played well/LeBron played poorly line.
I think LeBron's the one on the left
3. I don’t think the Hawks will have a stretch like they did Tuesday night, at least not of their own doing.
4. The Hawks were a little miffed with the chirping that some of the Cavaliers were doing, which may make them all the more eager for payback (if they need any more reasons). Without naming him, they were particularly unimpressed with the woofing that Jamario Moon was doing.
5. Despite their many incompetence issues, the Hawks had 23 fast-break points against Cleveland, 10 more than the Cavs’ average. There’s no reason the Hawks can’t do better if they handle the ball better in transition than Tuesday.
Why they won’t
1. Again with James – even if Williams had a lot to do with his 6-for-20, there’s no way he plays like that two nights in a row.
2. When the Hawks won in Boston, they were helped by Boston shooting 1 for 15 from 3-point range. In Dallas, Josh Howard was out.
3. Besides James, I don’t think Cleveland played all that well. There were a number of turnovers that were just bad, bad plays that I wouldn’t expect that team to make. The Hawks will likely face a better team Wednesday.
4. One of the Hawks’ pillars is rebounding. Cleveland neutralized the Hawks Tuesday, outrebounding the Hawks 43-30 and holding them to five offensive boards, and there’s no reason to think the Cavaliers can’t do it again.
5. Bottom line, it’s hard not to say that the Cavaliers are a better team. The Hawks’ chance to take one was Tuesday.
Why do you think the Hawks will win/lose tonight? Feel free to use my reasons, as each of them rates a 10 for insight.*
This one goes to 11.
Also, I’m planning on figuring out who won the prediction contest in my hotel in Cleveland this afternoon. Looking forward to it.
* Sarcasm.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
632 comments Add your comment
Time
December 30th, 2009
10:30 pm
Youngstown = Worthless city that noone cares about, has nothing to give to the world, hence we get their idiot “transplants”
Alien in ATL
December 30th, 2009
10:31 pm
Wabe – agree with your 10:24 post. It’s not the end of the world and our Hawks will have to fight the whole month to get some calls, seeing the agenda they are up to.
PD
December 30th, 2009
10:31 pm
Look Hawks did not blow a lead. Lebron is just that good ask Detroit in the playoffs 2 years ago. But with the refs he is unstoppable. The Hawks got robbed on a crucial possession in the game. They got rushed into a bad shot because of the clock. The back ref is Tim Donaghy’s cousin.
It is sad not a single writer who covered the game mentioned that in their recap.
bigdave
December 30th, 2009
10:32 pm
i remember 1 play in particular where james got the lose ball rebound and dipped his shoulder into a stationary Josh outside of the restricted area and Josh was called for blocking… then Marvin gets an AND1 on Delonte “coach take me out so i can hit this blunt” West and he’s called for a charge.
i thought Woodson coached well and used his talents tonight. i have only have 2 gripes… countless times i called for a true PG being on the floor w/ Joe and Mal… we had bad offense (not just iso’s) on every possession w/ out Bibby. if we converted it was b/c a tough shot was made. this is not necessarily a credit to Bibby, but strength to the argument of needing a back up PG as a moderator to this offense. i also think we should have left Marvin in the game when he usually exits for Jamal. we had enough offense with Joe being on and Bibby having a better shooting night. there were moments late that Jamal’s defensive and rebounding hurt us.
all in all we punched those guys back. Hawks as a unit, coaches and roster, showed me what i needed to see…
Melvin
December 30th, 2009
10:33 pm
Hopefully, we can get a do over like we did last year (i think thats when it happen)…. So Stern, do the right thing and take the results off each team record and let’s replay the final 1:50 seconds the next time Hawks play Cleveland…
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
10:34 pm
We are 1-4 against the 4 best teams in the NBA. 0-2 vs. Cleveland, 0-1 vs. Lakers, 0-1 vs. Magic, 1-0 vs. Boston
Dreadful January coming up
THIS TEAM HAS TO PLAY ITS BEST BASKETBALL–PERFECT BASKETBALL TO BEAT THE BEST TEAMS. WE ARE NOT CONTENDERS WITH THE ROSTER AS STANDS
Alien in ATL
December 30th, 2009
10:34 pm
JD
December 30th, 2009
10:22 pm
Your comment to Grandad – I think coach Woodson was well in time to make his complaint then!. so it doesn’t stick! Fire the officils – we were better off at the beginning of the season with the other referees!
RA
December 30th, 2009
10:34 pm
Youngstown Transplant in Gwinnett. Please feel free to return to Youngstown. I’m sure they want you more there than we do, and Interrupted Dribble, as I recall, the 1995 Cleveland Indians was one of the greatest offensive teams in the history of the game, Kenny Lofton, Thome, Ramairez… They were professional baseball players, this years Cavs club is just a collection punks, a disgrace to the league.
Youngstown Transplant in Gwinnett
December 30th, 2009
10:35 pm
Northeast Ohio is a so much better place to live than with you hicks!!! With a better basketball team AHAHAHAH
FRESH
December 30th, 2009
10:36 pm
HMMMM….I WONDER IF KEN WILL SHOW UP?!?!
LET’S START A GAME…
WHO CAN PREDICT WHETHER OR NOT KEN WILL SHOW UP TONIGHT OR WAIT TO TOMORROW WHEN LEVEL HEADS SHOULD PREVAIL??
I PREDICT HE WONT SHOW UNTIL TOMORROW.
Alien in ATL
December 30th, 2009
10:37 pm
JEJE – for the second time STFU!! If our Hawks could get half of the calls all of your above mentioned teams get, and half of the no-calls we usually get against those same teams, we win 75% of those games. As long as the refs give it an honest try!
JD
December 30th, 2009
10:37 pm
The NBA knows who the “homer” refs are and who the refs are who will give the edge to the visiting team, or the elite team if you prefer. The NBA keeps stats on the officials just as on the players.
The officials last night were Delaney, Mott and Leroy Richardson and the group tonight was even more weak. I do not believe Mott made more than 4 or 5 calls last night and a strong crew, or even a strong lead official, would have corrected the shot clock error tonight. The NBA knows ahead of time the officials who are most likely to give the league the desired result.
Why would the NBA send 2 extremely weak officiating crews to work games between 2 of the 4 best teams in the East? The only answer is the NBA sent crews to achieve a desired result.
The league has openly expressed displeasure with the ownership dispute in Atlanta. Do you think the Commissioner does not hold a grudge?
This is 42 years for the Hawks and every big game over that time has seemed to go against the Hawks, even back to the 1st year in Atlanta and a phantom call against Joe Caldwell to put Jerry West on the line for two in a crucial Western Conference playoff game. The FT’s won the game for the Lakers.
RA
December 30th, 2009
10:38 pm
Yea, uhm, you Cleveland fans might want to listen to what FRESH has to say (please see above). This is James last year in Cleveland, and all the foolishness that they carry on, they’re going to get it back times three after he’s gone. I hope they have fun posing for the rest of this regular season, because that point on, it’s downhill.
Youngstown Transplant in Gwinnett
December 30th, 2009
10:38 pm
only conservatives could cheer for a team like the Hawks.
Alien in ATL
December 30th, 2009
10:39 pm
Melvin – I pray you are right and I honestly hope they do the same thing. At the other hand, I’m afraid we won’t be that lucky – because it’s the Hawks, and we don’t “contribute” enough to the private accounts of Mr. Stern and his officials.
Grandad
December 30th, 2009
10:39 pm
JD:
In all other levels of basketball, it’s the next dead ball.
Obviously I’m not that well versed on NBA [Lebron] rules. In all
seriousness how much time did elapse? Woodson burned a TO. I had
the volume down @ the time and did not hear the commentaters.
Also, how did Riley protest the clock malfunction in Atl., that was upheld? Curious?
Ken Strickland
December 30th, 2009
10:41 pm
I’m very proud of all our Hawks, including Woodson, for the way they came into Cleveland after last nights embarrassment and took it to the Cav’s. It’s too bad we couldn’t overcome the three jokes that officiated the gm, and I have never made a comment about officiating on these blogs before.
Other than the officiating, I have one minor complaint. Down the stretch, it would’ve been a smart move on Woody’s part to put Morris in the gm. Since Cleveland used Varegao to double JJ on the perimeter, his inside scoring ability would’ve kept Verageo in the paint and forced the DEF to give him help with Morris. That would have opened the perimeter up for more open jumpers.
Like JEJE and I said earlier, it would be a smart move to play JCollins, because he’s tailor made for this gm and playing Shaq. He totally frustrated Shaq to the point they had to take him out of the gm. It’s a shame it took Woodson until the 32nd gm of the season to make an effort to find out what he had on his bench in Collins.
PD
December 30th, 2009
10:41 pm
The sad thing is you can see Bibby’s face say “here we go again” after that shot clock screw up.
2002 Playoffs Kobe elbows him in the face and it was a no call too.
RA
December 30th, 2009
10:41 pm
Youngstown Transplant in Gwinnett, since Ohio is so superior please don’t let us stand in the way of your departure. You and anyone else that thinks that other places are better may return to them at your leisure.
JD
December 30th, 2009
10:43 pm
Alien,
My point was that you do not have until the next dead ball. I agree, the question was raised well within the 24 seconds. See my comment above – a strong lead official would have made the correction. A short time before the problem there was a TV shot of Ken Mauer and Mike Brown yukking it up during a free throw.
Without LeBron the Cavs would win 20-30 games, maybe. Without LeBron, Mike Brown is out of work. His work makes Mike Woodson look like John Wooden.
Justin
December 30th, 2009
10:44 pm
Hawks gave a good effort. This was definitely not a choke job. Do they need to work on their offensive execution down the stretch? Obviously. But how many teams score 64 points in Cleveland in one half? The offense is not as bad as people are making it out to be. Down the stretch, the Hawks could not get any calls on their way to the basket and as we have well documented, the LeBrons got all kinds of calls. The FT disparity was 20+. Not to mention the shot clock. Then the once-in-a-lifetime 3 pointer by Verajo. He was 0-18 career before that shot. He should head to Vegas on the next flight. The Hawks didn’t choke- could have done better, but undone by some bad luck and bad officiating on a night LBJ went off.
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
10:46 pm
WE LET VAREJAO HIT A 3 U PEOPLE.
JESUS.
PD
December 30th, 2009
10:47 pm
We have 2 More Meetings with the payback can be served in April
LOL
December 30th, 2009
10:48 pm
Youngstown, Buffalo, Detroit, Cleveland, Toledo, Pittsburgh, etc.
typical rust belt native stuck in the glory days of factories and not wanting to accept the population decline, large areas of empty buildings/neighborhoods, and the current worthlessness of the area.
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
10:49 pm
FUNNY HOW OUR WRITER WRITES ABOUT HOW BIBBY AND SHAQ WERE JOKING ABOUT A FIXED GAME YESTERDAY AND SAID IT WAS THE MOST MEANINGFUL THING HE’S SEEN SINCE HE STARTED WRITING ABOUT THE HAWKS
WHERE ARE U NOW KEN?
YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!
cheshire
December 30th, 2009
10:50 pm
RA, “good riddance”??? you’re pretty much a massive douche. just letting you know.
JD
December 30th, 2009
10:52 pm
Grandad,
Riley protested an early disqualification of Shaq. The game was played from the 51 second mark of the 4th quarter as a result of a foul called on Udonis Haslem being recorded as O’Neal.
Interestingly, up to that point in the season with Miami, Shaq was averaging 2 points and 1 rebound in the 4th quarter and OTs. His average minutes were under 5 as I recall. Shaq did not play in the 4th qtr on Tuesday and I only saw the last 6+minutes tonight but he did not play during that time. For several years now Shaq has been a liability late in games. Hardly the MDE as he claims.
LOL
December 30th, 2009
10:53 pm
WOW NOW THIS IS A PLACE EVERYBODY CAN BE PROUD OF
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/08/real_estate/radical_city_plan/index.htm
YOUNGSTOWN, Ohio (CNNMoney.com) — Youngstown, Ohio, has seen its population shrink by more than half over the past 40 years, leaving behind huge swaths of empty homes, streets and neighborhoods.
“Abandoned houses here are like rainfall in the spring,” said Mayor Jay Williams, “That has gone on for decades.”
For a while, Youngstown, with its population at just over 80,000, hoped to return to its boomtown roots, when 165,000 residents called it home.
Grandad
December 30th, 2009
10:54 pm
Mr. Youngstown:
To quote the late, great ‘Lewis’…”Delta is ready when you are”!
Alien in ATL
December 30th, 2009
10:55 pm
JD – OK – sorry – I get your point! And I agree that the Cavs only win b/c of LBJ, not because he is sooo good, but b/c he gets all the calls. I liked one comment on SportsSouth when the refs were discussing the shotclock error: “We don’t need LBJ as our 4th official”. Unfortunately, that is what is happening every game I see where LBJ plays: him telling the officials what calls to make. He can call out officials and act like an overactive teenager having her period, but no “T” against him! Other players (not only our Hawks) complaining 1/10 to the refs of what (s)he is doing, they get tossed out of the game with double “T”’s. NBA is making a joke of itself and Stern won’t interfere because the show is paying off (in the NBA’s and HIS PRIVATE ACCOUNT!).
Grandad
December 30th, 2009
10:58 pm
JD:
Thanks – I remember now. Gettin’ old.
kwooden1
December 30th, 2009
10:58 pm
Lebron 15-23 (48pts), JJ 15-25 (35pts)
Lebron 4-6 from 3, JJ 3-6 from 3
Lebron 14-16 Free Throw Line, JJ 2-2 Free Throw Line
JJ can’t call his own fouls!!!!!
GO HAWKS!!!
Alien in ATL
December 30th, 2009
10:59 pm
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
10:46 pm
WE LET VAREJAO HIT A 3 U PEOPLE.
JESUS.
=> If you saw the game, only the officials, (after checking the score, I guess, and how much time was left) decided it was a 3-pointer. I guess they didn’t want to be late on LBJ’s B-day party!
Justin
December 30th, 2009
11:01 pm
And let us repeat that this was not a 4th quarter flop by the Hawks, which was the case the previous night. That should not even be insuated. This game should be appealed, and hopefully the last minute replayed like happened with the Hawks-Miami game a year ago.
Ken Strickland
December 30th, 2009
11:01 pm
YOUNGTOWN TRANSPLANT-why in the hell did you become a transplant in the ATL, rather than remain a miserable Ohio resident? And exactly what do you mean by conservative? I grew up in the deep south during the 50’s and 60’s, and its original meaning was used to label racists, segregationist and separatist.
Let’s talk about Orlando and what they did to you last yr. Let’s talk about how Lebron Shame represented Ohio very appropriately when he stormed off the court pouting and whining like a little girl that just had her doll taken away from her. After the struggles you had tonight at home against us, and the obvious officiating advantage you clowns got, I don’t see you doing any better in this yrs playoff either.
The only difference you’ll see afer this yr playoff embarrassment, as apposed to last yrs, is Lebron won’t just storm out of the gym this yr, but the entire state of Ohio.
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
11:02 pm
Alien, it was hard to tell, but it looked like a shadow between his foot and the line. Can’t really tell if it was a 3 or not
JD
December 30th, 2009
11:02 pm
One more thing on the officiating.
The official on the offensive baseline is responsible for seeing the shot clock is reset on a change of possession. He simply looks up at the opposite end for the reset. The error should have been caught within 2-3 seconds. Whoever that official was will be fined and perhaps the entire crew will be fined.
This mistake had a bigger impact on the outcome than the Shaq mistake in Atlanta, but again that was the NBA golden boy, Pat Riley, and this is the Atlanta Spirit so disliked by David Stern.
I know an NFL official who told me the NFL has a game(s) every week with officials mistakes changing the outcome. The difference in the NFL is the public seldom hears of the error and the errors are not as obvious as in an NBA game.
Youngstown Transplant In Gwinnett
December 30th, 2009
11:04 pm
Just as I suspected, sore losers.
Alien in ATL
December 30th, 2009
11:06 pm
Youngstown – I wonder who the sore looser is here? You with the officiating help or the fans wanting to see a real game?
Big Mone
December 30th, 2009
11:06 pm
ESPNews just did replay of game and completely skipped over the shot clock situation. They pretended as though it never happened.
cosmo
December 30th, 2009
11:07 pm
Last night, at home, the Hawks shot more free throws than the Cavs and nobody complained. Tonight, the situation is reversed and the whiners are out in force. That’s just life on the road in the NBA, or home court advantage if you prefer.
Yes, the clock did not reset properly, but that alone did not cause us to give away a 17 point lead from the 3rd quarter. We should have stepped on the Cavs throat when we had them down. We should have finished them off and we didn’t.
Blaming the clock on one play is just sour grapes, crybabies. Next time we have a team down by 17, we build it to 30 instead of giving it back.
It may not be popular to say what I said, but so be it.
With that said, lets regroup and start a new winning streak. Go Hawks!
Ken Strickland
December 30th, 2009
11:07 pm
How many of you think the gm could have gone differently had we maintained our composure and not given them pts off techicals?
Alien in ATL
December 30th, 2009
11:09 pm
JeJe – please go and get yourself a good pair of glasses (or drink less alcohol and smoke less good stuff). If you can’t afford the glasses, let me know – or better, call LBJ – I’m sure he can afford a couple!
Alien in ATL
December 30th, 2009
11:10 pm
Ken Strickland – how many of you think we shouldn’t have got all those “T”s or at least, got a couple back because of LBJ’s protesting?
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
11:13 pm
LOL. College Football in the SEC alone had 2 or 3 blown games by officials.
LMAO @ people thinking anything will be replayed. We had our chances in both these games, especially tonight, but rotted. We refused to double team LeBron James. We instead left Marvin and his AMAZING defense on LeBron and let him rot. We didn’t cover the shooters.
The reason the shot clock issue was passed over was because it really didn’t affect the outcome. We gave up a 3 to Varejao, who was unguarded. We let LeBron score 46 on his birthday. We squandered all sorts of leads in the 2nd half. And we had horrendous plays run, or lack thereof, namely Joe and his pathetic ISO plays.At the end we waited 10 seconds so Joe could pass it to Bibby for a contested shot. LOL
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
11:14 pm
The only thing I am that pissed off about is how the Cavs complain EVERY time they’re called for a foul and are a classless team.
Alien in ATL
December 30th, 2009
11:14 pm
cosmo:
“Yes, the clock did not reset properly, but that alone did not cause us to give away a 17 point lead from the 3rd quarter. We should have stepped on the Cavs throat when we had them down. We should have finished them off and we didn’t.”
1/ No – the ref’s made sure we couldn’t keep our lead by bogus calls against wonder-boy JBJ while Varejao and LBJ could knock down the whole field.
2/ We kept stepping on the Cav’s throat, but the ref’s stepped harder on ours.
Alien in ATL
December 30th, 2009
11:17 pm
JeJe – for the last time, please STFU if you still can’t see a good team being brought down because of a higher plan (architecture by LBJ and his payed protector Stern)
hawks fan since 1985
December 30th, 2009
11:18 pm
year we were robbed on the clock but thats not why we lost cleveland is a better team lets face it the hawks are 1-9 vrs the cavs in the last 10 games we are the 4th best team in the east and are not ready for cavs celtics magic lets be real here people…how many of you guys really think we can win it all this year???its not going to happen i love my hawks but we just arnt good enough yet
JD
December 30th, 2009
11:18 pm
OK, one more on officiating.
Once upon a time in the NBA there were a number of strong lead officials. Jake O’Donnell, Jack Madden, Richie Powers, Hugh Evans, Darrell Garretson and many more. Now there are very few, and when Joe Crawford is one of your best you know the pool is shallow. Why? Because the game is not officiated as a basketball game but as entertainment.
Who could make consistent calls when the decision is based upon the player involved and not the circumstances? The jersey color and the name on the shoulders ought to be unimportant but as this blog demonstrates not many people believe this to be the case.
In last night’s game Shaq pivoted to face Josh on the low post, planted his elbow squarely in Josh’s chest and face and then laid the ball in the basket. No foul! Later Mike Bibby grabbed Shaq with both hands on the low post and held on until Shaq turned to face Josh – the foul was called on Josh. The lead official on that crew, Bob Delaney, goaded Josh into 2 Technicals the last time he was in Atlanta and that early DQ cost Atlanta the game. Certainly the NBA is aware putting Josh in foul trouble also puts Atlanta at a disadvantage.