Hawks-Cavs thread
Greetings, all-
Hope everyone is enjoying some time off. This will be brief, and we’ll get to game time. I just saw the most interesting thing. Well, maybe that’s overselling it.
The Hawks have a practice gym next to their locker room at Philips Arena, and I was walking through there from the locker room to the media room. Joe Johnson had just left the locker room to go shoot, and when I saw him in the gym, I saw him throwing a ball to the far end of the court.
When I walked in the gym, I saw who (I assume) he threw the ball to – Shaquille O’Neal, who was practicing jump hooks with a Cavs staffer. Johnson left and got another ball, and started shooting with a team gopher. Mike Bibby came in shortly after, to work with Johnson on something, and as soon as Shaq saw Bibby, he makes a joke about a fixed game. I didn’t hear what they were talking about, but I’m guessing it had to do with Tim Donaghy’s allegations.
Bibby went to Shaq’s end of the court, and they continued talking about that game, all in good fun, just two friends giving each other a hard time. Johnson, meanwhile, started taking 3-pointers. There was little to suggest an important game was about an hour away. It was a quiet gym with guys taking shots at either end.
I may remember that as much as anything from the time I cover this team.
Anyway, some brief thoughts. I don’t know that this game means as much to Cleveland as it does the Hawks. The Hawks are talking about these two games as measuring sticks, and apparently, the Cavaliers were talking about their Christmas Day game with the Lakers the same way.
My prediction is that Jason Collins will play. I don’t know how much Joe Smith can give, and I’m sure that Mike Woodson is going to spend a lot of fouls on Cleveland’s big guys.
Something to watch – how Joe Johnson does. It’s not quite the same thing, but Johnson has outplayed Brandon Roy, Dwyane Wade and Deron Williams when they came to town. LeBron James is a different creature, of course, and a different position, but I think Johnson will want to perform, regardless.
Also, Al Horford. He didn’t play hardly at all in the playoffs – as I wrote in today’s notebook, he said in hindsight, he shouldn’t have even played and put himself at further risk of injury. He’s been on a roll and this, obviously, is a giant challenge (and also opportunity) for him.
Gotta start writing. Enjoy the game.
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419 comments Add your comment
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
11:52 pm
Big Ray,
Ilgauskas destroyed us tonight. Plain and simple: Jason Collins should’ve played. This game had his name written on it all year. How do you not play a 7 foot veteran vs. Shaq/Ilgauskas? The guy played against Shaq in the 2002 Finals too
Grandad
December 29th, 2009
11:52 pm
If Woodson were actually the coach next yr.
What would he say about Teager?
Woodson – next yr:
“Well, I’d play ‘im if he had some experience.”
Big Ray
December 29th, 2009
11:55 pm
JeJe ,
I wish I had one, really. I don’t know what to say other than you’re right that Bibby is not delivering on either end of the court right now. He has to at least put up the points. He’s a good guy to have when it comes to taking care of the ball, but when he’s missing shots and getting torched on defense, he really hurts us.
Unfortunately, that’s against the best teams, too. If it’s not Mo Williams, it’s Rajon Rondo or Jameer Nelson. Scary.
Funny thing is, I don’t know if Sund will make a move to deal with that, and I think playing Jamal there can have a back-firing effect. And Teague? He’s just not ready yet, especially when he’s getting DNPs like he did tonight.
Big Ray
December 29th, 2009
11:58 pm
JeJe ,
I agree. Collins should have played, even if we had to make him put his cheeseburger down, lol!
By the way, you get best post for the night on this:
Can someone on this team please commit a hard foul? If the game is virtually over and Delonte is talking trash, make him hit the floor.
Stop helping guys up after fouls — show a damn backbone for once
Damn straight, man. I’m sick of Delonte as it is. I’d put Collins or somebody in JUST for that reason. Next time he drives to the basket on a backdoor cut, lay his ass out. Hell, I bet Othello Hunter would do it….just for a little playing time….
Rod from College Park
December 29th, 2009
11:58 pm
JeJe,
Yeah at the Gold Room, used to be the old Gold Club. Pre Lebron birthday celebration. I will be willing to bet anything Lebron destroys us tomorrow on his birthday. I’m very impressed that he and Delonte West actually made it to the game, cause they were going pretty hard. One thing I will say is that David Stern is not going to let anything happen to his cash cow. Dude had more security than Obama. Looked like secret service cats. I’m used to seeing Iverson with dudes from College Park.
Grandad
December 29th, 2009
11:59 pm
Woodson on Teague: (Nov., 2010)
Unfortunately, we were not able to get him any meaningful minutes last season, the opportunity just never did present itself……………..
ohio guy
December 30th, 2009
12:00 am
I thought this would be a more exciting game than it turned out to be. For your largest regular season crowd ever I was amazed at the lack of enthusiasm in your arena…and the music and PA announcer almost puts you to sleep. Tune in tomorrow night for the game in Cleveland and you can experience what fun and fan involvement is all about.
Big Ray
December 30th, 2009
12:00 am
The problem with Ilgauskas is he gets offensive rebounds without even jumping. Dude is 7′3″ with long-ass arms, and he weighs about 280. That, and he’s got a good outside jumper, so when you lay off of him, he strokes a 20-footer on you. Drives me crazy. Thing is, he only got 5 rebounds against us, but 3 of them were on the offensive glass.
And guess what? He scored on every one of them. Dammit.
Big Ray
December 30th, 2009
12:02 am
LOL @ Grandad ….
You know what? You’re right.
Rod ,
Now what were you doing at the Gold Room at 3 a.m.? Tryin’ to get a taste? Heh heh, just kidding. Maybe if you tell them NBA secret service cats all your Marvin jokes, they’ll let you in the VIP room with ‘Bron ‘Bron and his hoochies. Uh…not… LOL
Grandad
December 30th, 2009
12:04 am
Big Ray:
What about a hard foul or any foul on LBJ wi. 2 sec. before the half.
Rod from College Park
December 30th, 2009
12:04 am
JeJe,
“Can someone on this team please commit a hard foul? If the game is virtually over and Delonte is talking trash, make him hit the floor.
Stop helping guys up after fouls — show a damn backbone for once”
That’s why I wanted Stephen Jackson so bad. He would have answered all of our problems at the 3, and we would have brought an attitude to this team that is really needed. The team is too nice.
truly1
December 30th, 2009
12:08 am
you guys are sayin some of the same things I have already said other have said some of the same comments as well but thats fine it is a blog. I think some of you just like to hear it come out your own mouth
Big Ray
December 30th, 2009
12:08 am
Grandad ,
I’d take that, too. But I wouldn’t do it in Quicken Loans Arena. You’ll get called for the next 25 fouls, even if they’re committed by the Cavaliers.
Teague can probably expect another valuable DNP. Unless of course, we’re getting blown out by 30 at the half, and still by 20 after 3 quarters, 11 minutes, and 4 seconds. Then Teague will be blessed with the final 56 seconds and Jamal Crawford trips over Mike Bibby, who will be dragging himself off the court….
Big Ray
December 30th, 2009
12:09 am
Now I KNOW that was not the real Rod answering me like that. Sounds like somebody is getting bored. Of course, that happens when you crave attention and people start ignoring you…..
Big Ray
December 30th, 2009
12:11 am
Rod ,
I’d have taken Stephen Jackson in a heartbeat. He adds toughness, scoring ability, defense. And for anybody who wants to talk about where he’s been in the past, they better do their homework. Dude won a ring in San Antonio. Enough said.
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
12:12 am
I agree with the posts about Philips Arena’s atmosphere. People always say it’s full and there’s no energy, because it’s true.
The Philips Arenas crowds have always been a joke. People just go for the social experiences. People clap when LeBron does his pregame powder BS, instead of BOO’ING. Watch the Portland Crowd, or Utah, or LAL, or Boston, or Cleveland, if you want to see hostility
Rod from College Park
December 30th, 2009
12:12 am
Big Ray,
“Now what were you doing at the Gold Room at 3 a.m.? Tryin’ to get a taste? Heh heh, just kidding. Maybe if you tell them NBA secret service cats all your Marvin jokes, they’ll let you in the VIP room with ‘Bron ‘Bron and his hoochies. Uh…not… LOL”
Trust me I had much better times in the VIP rooms in the old Gold Club than Lebron had last night. I’ve been there and done that. Liver can’t take it anymore. I enjoyed seeing the young cats have a good time. One thing for all you nice guy Hawk fans. No Hawks were present. They were all at home resting and doing the right thing. Sure helped didn’t it.
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
12:13 am
Funny that LBJ and Delonte would be partying that hard. They must know it’s a joke playing in The Library, formerly known as Philips Arena. Remember in May when LBJ threw a party after game 4? Ugh
Rod from College Park
December 30th, 2009
12:14 am
Big Ray,
Of course that was not me.
Big Ray
December 30th, 2009
12:15 am
A. Horford C 40:05 3-7 0-0 3-4 -1 2 7 9 2 1 2 4 1 0 9
Z. Ilgauskas 19:44 6-8 1-2 2-2 +4 3 2 5 0 4 0 0 0 1 15
S. O’Neal C 25:38 5-7 0-0 0-0 +4 2 6 8 0 2 0 1 0 1 10
All that tells me is that it takes two guys over 7 feet and 280 lbs each to outdo a 6′9″/6′10″ power forward…..Yep…..
The game is won in the post…yet the two big ol’ 7 footers could only come up with 25 points…absolute total domination…lol…
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
12:16 am
Just wondering if visiting players tend to stay in that Ritz Carlton right down the street from GA State/Philips? Always walk by there and wonder what such a prestigious hotel is doing out there
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
12:18 am
Big Ray, it wasn’t just those 2.
We COULD NOT hold onto loose balls, and Varejao was a pain in the @$$ too. Cleveland has all the players who are hated outside of Cleveland but loved in Cleveland: Varejao, Delonte, Mo, LeBron, probably Ilgauskas
Big Ray
December 30th, 2009
12:18 am
Rod ,
I have to admit, I found that last line about none of the Hawks being in the Gold Room hilarious as hell.
You’re right though, it didn’t help a damn bit.
Well, a man’s got to take care of his liver. You only get one of those, and if it goes all spongy, then times get bad. At least you had your fun when you had the chance.
Big Ray
December 30th, 2009
12:22 am
JeJe ,
True. We did have issues with loose balls. Part of that is Zaza, who had his hands on SO many loose ball plays. His problem is that he doesn’t hold the ball high when he gets it. He holds it low, and it inevitably gets poked away. Marvin was bad about it too on a couple of instances. Even Horford kicked the ball away or something on occasion. It happened way too often, and the Cavs capitalized.
It’s crazy, because they actually had more turnovers than we did. We just didn’t hang onto the ball, like you said.
I can’t stand Varejao. But you better believe I’d love to have someone like him on this team. Either we don’t have that guy, or we aren’t playing him. I could see Othello Hunter being that kind of guy, but he sits the pine.
I miss Chills sometimes. He was always around loose balls, and you never had to run a play for him. Yet he got his 11 and 5 or 11 and 6, no matter what, and didn’t turn the ball over. Ugly ass shot, but he was hitting 50-something percent from the field.
FRESH
December 30th, 2009
12:23 am
Mannnnn right now the Hawks (Hell all Atlanta sport teams for that matter) just feel like a very bad marriage. Some days things are cool then next thing you know S**t goese south quick!!!! And I MEAN QUICK!!! S**t even gets downright ugly from time to time SMH.
I don’t know how much more of this marriage I can take, I know I can do better…luckily I signed the prenuptial agreement.
O'Brien
December 30th, 2009
12:27 am
We need Bibby to score, because his defense sucks, and the Hawks dont really have an offense for him to run. We need him to step his game up when we go against Rajon Rondo, Jemeer Nelson, and Mo Williams.
Rod,
Stephen Jackson would definitely add another dimension to the team, but I really dont think Woody would know what to do with him. All Jackson’s points would probably come on ISO’s and one on ones. And the rest of the team would stand around. (One reason why Woody likes Marvin is because Marvin doesnt take any shots away from JJ, who is Woody’s favorite player).
I agree that points in the paint are an issue for the Hawks when they play the elite teams. However, if we had any kind of consistent offense that got our players some easy looks, and kept our bigs involved, we would be able to overcome our lack of size against these teams.
Big Ray
December 30th, 2009
12:29 am
O’brien ,
That’s just what I was saying earlier. Only, that’s when Bibby does his worst….
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
12:33 am
I think finishing with a top 3 seed in the East will be an impossibility after tomorrow (today)’s likely loss. We, as someone pointed out earlier, have to play OUR BEST BALL to beat teams like Boston, Orlando, and Cleveland. That Boston win earlier this year was pretty much perfect basketball. We have no offensive sets, we don’t expose matchups (CRAWFORD), and Woodson refuses to call out Joe when Joe inevitably sucks
Rod from College Park
December 30th, 2009
12:42 am
O’Brien,
Stephen Jackson would stand in that corner that Marvin stands in and he would knock down that wide open jumpshot all day. People complain about Joe not passing out of the double team, and even Dominique continues to say that we need to swing the ball to the other side of the floor, but guess who’s on the other side of the floor? That scoring machine Marvin Williams. Joe won’t swing it because he has no confidence that Marvin can score consistently. Plus I think Woodson tells him not to pass to Marvin. Woodson would rather lose with Joe taking shots than Marvin. I can’t say that I blame him.
O'Brien
December 30th, 2009
12:49 am
JeJe,
I think the Hawks matchup best with the Celtics. (Although one reason the Hawks beat Boston in Boston early in the season is because Boston went 1-15 from 3 (although the Hawks were only 4-15 themselves)).
This game was similar to the Orlando game. We look good the first half, but come the second half, our offense struggled mightily. And when plan A fails on offense, plan B is to try harder at plan A.
If we lose tomorrow, I am sure a lot of fans will be jumping off the bandwagon. But lets keep it in perspective. The Hawks will win 50+ games, and probably end up as the #4 seed. The second round of the playoffs will tell us how much Woody is really worth…
Ken Strickland
December 30th, 2009
12:55 am
JEJE-The Cavaliers signed Shaq to play DHoward one on one. The Hawks supposedly signed JCollins to play Shaq one on one. So you’re absolutely correct about this being a perfect gm to utilize him.
However, this is one of several issues WOODY LOVERS refuse to accept, and that is he’s not an NBA level HC when it comes to utilizing strategy, creating and/or taking advantage of matchups. With Smoove in foul trouble and them playing a frontline combination of Shaq, Varejoa and Ilgaukas, Woodson acted like he didn’t notice how they started dominating us on the boards, especially the OFF boards.
With them slowing the gm down to a crawl, this would’ve been an excellent opportunity to use Collins and Morris. They would have posed a good challenge for Shaq, Varejao and Ilgaukas physically and skill wise. There’s no way Ilgaukas could’ve defended the smooth postup moves of Morris, and neither Shaq, Varejao or Ilgaukas would have posed much of an OFF threat for Morris or Collins.
Collins’ size alone could have effectively kept Shaq out of the lane without double teaming, which would have allowed everyone else to play straight up man to man. Woodson simply has a very limited imagination on both OFF and DEF, and just isn’t very imaginative.
I also think Woodson’s reason for not playing Bibby for most of the 4th qtr was because he thought we’d start hitting our shots and didn’t want to disrupt the excellent overall DEF the team was playing.
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
1:04 am
Good points, K.Strickland. Why the hell did we sign Collins if he’s NOT GOING to play?
What a “waste of money” for our ASG. The penny pinching idiots wasted the vet min on someone who wont even get off the bench
afl
December 30th, 2009
2:44 am
just like the playoffs from last year. See you at the Q tommorrow night. GO CAVS!!!
Sid
December 30th, 2009
3:12 am
As I said in the previous entry from the other day . Crawford is a bonafide Cav killer IF Woody allows him to do it .
Why is it that the hottest man on the team for that game cant get the ball and has to work so hard to get his points as if he has to fight his own tam and coach for a shot .
If Joe is not feeling it why not have Joe bring it the ball up and feed Crawford we all know Joe can play some point. Imagine how Crawford feels that no matter how many shots he makes in a row that his own team wont even look for him and his own coach wont even call a set play for him .
Crawford cannot carry us everynight but when he does have it going we have to know when and how to get him the ball just as we would Joe .Josh,Mike or Al .
If Im out there Im thinking my shot is not falling but jamal is having his way with them so Im gonna drive and dish and try and set him up for some open looks . Instead the entire team decides to shoot themselves out of their funks .
If Odom or Gasol gets hot they get the ball
When Mo Williams was making those shots the Cavs didnt formulate a way to get the ball out of his hands
When that Ryan Anderson was making shots like crazy against us they didnt say hmmm youve reached your shot limit Ryan in the first half .
After Crawford went around them in the first half and started making shots did anyone see how they started doubling him way out top on the pick and roll we should certainly have play where we can use that to our advantage seeing as it makes it 4 on 3 .
I just dont get it …
RA
December 30th, 2009
5:56 am
They had a bad night, more to the point, a bad fourth quarter. Neither team played particularly well. For the record, they played a sight better at home against Cleveland than the Lakers. So some of you might just want to back off. Now, try to keep this in mind, the Cleveland Cavs are a team that loves to get inside your head and take your focus off the game. They’re absolutely classless, they’re physical, and they will do whatever they have to try to intimidate or atagonize you so that your focus isn’t on the game anymore. They’re the best I’ve seen at doing that since the Detroit bad boys and a team that is still gettting used to the limelight of a national stage is going to be particularly vulnerable to their antics, but if Atlanta can play their game and keep their heads, they can beat Cleveland, or anyone else for that matter, but in the case of Cleveland, it’s not about X’s and O’s or even talent. To beat that team, you’ve got to keep your focus. When Atlanta’s able to do that, they can show Cleveland the promise of hell.
It never ceases to amaze me how much time Lebron James can spend on another teams court after a game is over, when they win.
terrell barron
December 30th, 2009
6:04 am
When it comes to Ole Woodrow, thanks SUND for not jumping the GUN. lol!!
terrell barron
December 30th, 2009
6:08 am
Bibby needs to practice the layup drill. lol!! He’s either been blocked or just plain missed at least 5 or 6 this year.
JeJe
December 30th, 2009
8:16 am
Woody’s unwillingness to expose matchups and to just pound the ball to Joe should get him fired. That is NOT how you beat elite teams.
As we stand, we have no shot of beating the big 3 in a Series and probably the top 3 teams in the West we couldn’t beat either. We really need to trade Marvin for a small forward with scoring ability like Jamison. The ONLY improvement over last year is we will finish with more wins but still lose in the 2nd round. Is this really the goal of this franchise?
Anthony
December 30th, 2009
8:39 am
The Hawks are clearly pretenders. None of the players truly show up against the top teams.
Anthony
December 30th, 2009
9:17 am
Fans, you might aswell be happy with just beating middle of the pack or bottom feeders because that’s all the Hawks are ever going to do.
jean
December 30th, 2009
9:46 am
if joe and jamal flipp flopped career and jamal was a hawk 5 years while joe played for ny and gs would he still be considred the better player? i say hawks let joe walk….or a sign and trade for a legit center like chris kamman and get a young player in return….and then sign a free agent the problem is joe is not a real number 1 option neither is jamal so there are two number 2 options it wont work…….
jean
December 30th, 2009
9:47 am
i have this new thing any time josh smith or hortford shoot a jump shot i turn the channel to prevent my self from punching something does woodson have any control of the team……id tell josh u take anothe rshot from 19 feet or further u sit the rest of the game
Sautee
December 30th, 2009
10:04 am
As Mrs. Sautee said a couple of weeks ago:
“Joe’s a good player but he’s not NEARLY as good as Woody THINKS he is.”
chad
December 30th, 2009
10:12 am
For three quarters the Hawks looked good. End of story. Joe was hot in the first quarter and coach dumbass takes him out and Joe never got it back. I think coach Woody has been watching too many Tech games and is catching the Paul Blewit virus.
Sautee
December 30th, 2009
10:19 am
Funny how it’s all Horford’s fault for not manning the middle more, and yet not one word from some corners about Woody playing his “undersized, outmanned center” 40 minutes while bigger, stronger players stayed on the bench.
If we were outmanned why didn’t Woodson DO something about it?
Maybe HE thinks his best chance to win is with Horford out there at Center?
A Rod
December 30th, 2009
10:33 am
Joe has no heart. He is not a number 1, especially not against the elite teams. Josh at least plays with a lot of heart and I like that. Let Joe go and perhaps try to sign Bosh or a real center so we can put Horford at PF, Josh at SF and a center. Crawford is good against mediocre defenders as well, just like joe. Also let woodson go too since he has no half court offense that he teaches, and the defense is not great either. A couple of times last night I saw bibby on lebron? really?
A Rod
December 30th, 2009
10:34 am
agreed woodson is the nba version if hewitt. they dont even coach, it’s like street ball out there and that’s why the hawks look so discombobulated against the good teams. lol
GeeMack
December 30th, 2009
10:52 am
It amazes me. The Hawks are a top 5 offensive team & 1 of the top 15 defensive teams and this loss is blamed on the coach. The Hawks have one of the top 5 records in the NBA, and we are complaining about a Cle loss that was high contested. The difference in the game was hustle. The Cavs simply out hustled the Hawks. Period that’s the difference down the stretch. They wanted it more. The Hawks got out worked in the 4th.
A Rod
December 30th, 2009
11:06 am
Hawks got jobbed by the refs too. the calls that the lebrons get are unbelievable.
rms
December 30th, 2009
11:10 am
Of course its the coaches fault. The Hawks are not contenders but pretenders….period. The hawks should have wanted it more and they didnt. Even if they did they wasnt going to get it because they couldnt hit their shots or defend the rim. The offense was horrible to watch and an embarrassment to the NBA world that was watching. I can hear them now saying “I told ya so” , “The Hawks ain’t for real” “I told ya so”!!