Hawks-Cavs thread
Greetings, all-
Hope everyone is enjoying some time off. This will be brief, and we’ll get to game time. I just saw the most interesting thing. Well, maybe that’s overselling it.
The Hawks have a practice gym next to their locker room at Philips Arena, and I was walking through there from the locker room to the media room. Joe Johnson had just left the locker room to go shoot, and when I saw him in the gym, I saw him throwing a ball to the far end of the court.
When I walked in the gym, I saw who (I assume) he threw the ball to – Shaquille O’Neal, who was practicing jump hooks with a Cavs staffer. Johnson left and got another ball, and started shooting with a team gopher. Mike Bibby came in shortly after, to work with Johnson on something, and as soon as Shaq saw Bibby, he makes a joke about a fixed game. I didn’t hear what they were talking about, but I’m guessing it had to do with Tim Donaghy’s allegations.
Bibby went to Shaq’s end of the court, and they continued talking about that game, all in good fun, just two friends giving each other a hard time. Johnson, meanwhile, started taking 3-pointers. There was little to suggest an important game was about an hour away. It was a quiet gym with guys taking shots at either end.
I may remember that as much as anything from the time I cover this team.
Anyway, some brief thoughts. I don’t know that this game means as much to Cleveland as it does the Hawks. The Hawks are talking about these two games as measuring sticks, and apparently, the Cavaliers were talking about their Christmas Day game with the Lakers the same way.
My prediction is that Jason Collins will play. I don’t know how much Joe Smith can give, and I’m sure that Mike Woodson is going to spend a lot of fouls on Cleveland’s big guys.
Something to watch – how Joe Johnson does. It’s not quite the same thing, but Johnson has outplayed Brandon Roy, Dwyane Wade and Deron Williams when they came to town. LeBron James is a different creature, of course, and a different position, but I think Johnson will want to perform, regardless.
Also, Al Horford. He didn’t play hardly at all in the playoffs – as I wrote in today’s notebook, he said in hindsight, he shouldn’t have even played and put himself at further risk of injury. He’s been on a roll and this, obviously, is a giant challenge (and also opportunity) for him.
Gotta start writing. Enjoy the game.
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419 comments Add your comment
Mahdi
December 29th, 2009
10:34 pm
Joe Johnson shoots 4 for 4 and then doens’t hit another bucket until 3 minutes left in the game? Yea, sure…Joe is definitely our number one option. We could definitely rely on him to produce in clutch times against the big three in the east come playoff time…sure.
truly1
December 29th, 2009
10:34 pm
Im going to half to agree with you ken strick. Bibby sucked tonight he missed several open jumpers then why have him in. Put in teague and lets see.
terrell barron
December 29th, 2009
10:35 pm
If you think this game was ugly, wait until tomorrow.
Ken Strickland
December 29th, 2009
10:35 pm
CLYDE-in all honesty, Woodson has improved overall as a HC, but certainly not enough in the areas of effectively employing strategy, making timely changes and adjustments, consistency, developing young PG’s or an effective halfcourt OFF. Man, I’d give almost anything to see how good this team could be with someone in charge with more overall coaching skills and fewer hangups.
Rufus1
December 29th, 2009
10:35 pm
IT’S MARVIN’S FAULT….I said it for you Marvin HATERS
Marvin played great defense tonight…get off his back.
Our problem is and will always be a penetrating PG and a 2nd shot blocker. Bibby is the best option to to run the offense but if his shot isn’t falling, he is not worth the defensive liability. We Have only primary ball handler who is quick enough to consistently get to the hole(crawford). Bibby’s allows the other teams PG to break down our defense and get us out of position. We we our out of position we can’t defend or rebound properly….It happened in the DENVER GAME.
SUND…get a quick PG or a shot blocker
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
10:37 pm
What a HORRENDOUS game for Joe Johnson. Why the hell is this guy having the ball on every possession? He did NOTHING against this defense in the 4th quarter. Why the HELL is Jamal not taking every shot/having plays run for him in the 4th?
Jody
December 29th, 2009
10:38 pm
Truth-Serum,
It sounds really simplistic, but it is very true. The game really is won or lost in the paint. If you can’t manufacture an avenue for high percentage shots in the halfcourt consistently, you’re going to struggle against the elite teams (especially in the playoffs).
Mychelfromatl
December 29th, 2009
10:39 pm
Rufus1,
I totally agree about Marvin. But you know haters gonna hate. I’ve come to believe that its only one or two posters that create duplicate screen-names that does all the Marvin bashing though.
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
10:40 pm
Mychelfromatl,
Are you f*cking serious? Our frontline did !#@$ rebounding-wise against Varejao and Ilgauskas. We couldn’t get loose balls and Ilgauskas was playing volleyball on the glass.
I think some of you don’t want these games, even if you’re at them
terrell barron
December 29th, 2009
10:41 pm
Quit bashing Woody. Its that time of the year where he tries to get JJ an All-Star bid. AT ALL COSTS!
Ken Strickland
December 29th, 2009
10:41 pm
TRUTH SERUM-do you thing your parents would be proud of the vulgarity and limited vocabulary you’re displaying? Of course, that’s assuming you actually had parents.
Mychelfromatl
December 29th, 2009
10:42 pm
Idiot,
Naw duke…you obviously didn’t watch the game because…
…HOLDUP…your screen-name is idiot…nevermind that explains your comment.
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
10:44 pm
Amen, Terrell.
My God — I almost wish we had Mo Evans in there over Joe, or even Teague. Yes, I said that
kwooden1
December 29th, 2009
10:44 pm
Jody, Truth There’s nothing we can do about the size difference right now, we have to live with what we got. Our low post game consists of Smoove’s lefty jump hook and Horfords 10-15ft jumpshot. That’s probably enough to get us to the 2nd round and not any further, as you have already stated. So what we’re going to have to do is run a constant pick and roll, motion offensive and JJ, Bibby, Marvin and JC will have to hit their jumpshots. We haven’t seen them execute that type of offensive for a complete game against a very good team. If they can learn that and execute it late in games, I think they can beat Cleveland, Boston, Orlando even the Lakers in the 7 games series. It sounds like crazy talk, but executing that type of offensive consistently against quality defensive teams is near impossible, so I’m really not that crazy. Just a FAN!
GO HAWKS!!!
bigdave
December 29th, 2009
10:45 pm
im not a big Bibby fan… but honestly who is actually better defensively right now? ive watched Crawford miss his box out assignment countless times… Bibby took 7 shots 3 from deep… yeah he’ll hit em all…
KevinA
December 29th, 2009
10:46 pm
Ken Strickland
December 29th, 2009
10:00 pm
IF YOU’RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU’RE PART OF THE PROBLEM. What does that mean? It means if HC MWoodson does absolutely nothing to stop what we’ve all seen JJ do time and time again, to the overall detriment of the team, then he’s the major part of the problem.
I agree with that. But you would think that JJ, Jamal and Bibby have the experience and brains to ride the big’s. Time for a new guard that will pass the ball low and play some D. We don’t have one of those.
By the way – who guards Williams and West. The big’s? Most of our losses come with our guards getting torched. I don’t think it is possible to coach defense with these guards. When we are guarding big’s like Cleveland has you can’t expect Josh, Al and ZaZa to pick up the guards also. Josh does a credible job but that is only because of his unique talent. When he gets into foul trouble we are very vulnerable.
Why did JJ quit driving and passing. Seems like when quits attacking in the flow of the offense our entire team goes to crap. I don’t think Woody told him to quit driving. Just another loss because of bad balance and poor ball rotation. The reason I do not put all this on Woody is because we have played great ball many times this season and last with good ball rotation and much better balance.
bigdave
December 29th, 2009
10:46 pm
im all for playing Teague at pg but you kidding if you think he’s ready to start with this team…
Mychelfromatl
December 29th, 2009
10:47 pm
JeJe,
All I’ma say is whatever bruh. I kinda expect that comment from you.
***Kanye West at the VMA’s shrug***
truly1
December 29th, 2009
10:47 pm
Another thing Woody played his starters to many minute now we are in trouble tomorrow. Woody played this game as if is no tomorrow now it is no tomorrow. You cant coach this way because if you lose 1 game the way we lost it. it will turn into 3.
truly1
December 29th, 2009
10:49 pm
bigdave I hope noone is talking about starting teague I wasnt. But he should play.
KevinA
December 29th, 2009
10:49 pm
Truth-Serum
December 29th, 2009
10:43 pm
This game has been play out over the years so many times till its a proverb , Jody.
I guess Its frustrating because there are so many clues people who cant see what is so obvious. It is won or lost right there in the paint. You control the paint the other guys got to go outside to shoot. The further out you go the lower percentage the shots.
No brainer
Yup, so feed the ball to Al. No brainer. 4th in NBA in FG.%
bigdave
December 29th, 2009
10:50 pm
KevinA
when Jamal got hot.. the ball was taken out of Joe’s hands…
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
10:50 pm
Everyone knows Joe Johnson is one of Woodson’s sacred cows.
Woodson is too scared of alienating our “superstar” so he NEVER calls him out for ANYTHING. Even his pathetic end-of-quarter bull!@#$ where he dribbles it down and doesn’t even get a shot off. It’s absolutely pathetic.
And we really needed this cold streak to happen in the 2nd qtr so Woodson could’ve gotten ejected and pumped the guys up
Ken Strickland
December 29th, 2009
10:52 pm
ROD FROM CP/SAMUEL-did you see that DEF gem Marvin put on Lebron? THAT’S WHY WE SAY HE’S ONE OF OUR TOP MAN TO MAN DEFENDERS. Lebron was unsuccessful whenever he tried to drive by him or post him up. He finally started passing the ball when Marvin was on him and attacked the basket only whenever Marvin was forced to switch off. Imagine how much worse this loss would have been without his shutdown DEF.
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
10:54 pm
Woodson is also at fault for not playing Jason Collins. This is the one game out of 82, or 79, that COLLINS IS BUILT FOR. HE IS A FREAKING VETERAN WITH NBA FINALS EXPERIENCE. THE GUY IS 7 FEET TALL. WHY DID HE NOT PLAY IN THIS GAME?
truly1
December 29th, 2009
10:55 pm
tomorrow josh will be in foul trouble again you guys know clev is going to get all the calls
Jody
December 29th, 2009
10:57 pm
Kwooden1,
I agree that it would be rather difficult to try to alleviate the problems with size right now. However, that doesn’t change the fact that the issue will need to be addressed (along with the addressing of other issues) at some point before the Hawks can take that one last step to being an elite team. They’ll just have to make sure they’re ready when those opportunities present themselves (and they will).
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
10:57 pm
Give me a break on Marvin’s defense. He is not a “great” defender. LeBron wasn’t even trying to score 90% of the time. He forced 2 shots in the 4th. Besides that, he was looking for teammates (10 assists). He knows he can go off on our team any time he wants. He had 6″5 skinny Jamal Crawford on him for 10 minutes for crying out loud.
SWAT Native
December 29th, 2009
10:57 pm
Well, the Hawks got smacked in the mouth in their own gym with the Cavs talking smack to them (on national TV no less). Like Jim Rome used to say, they got punked in their own crib. And you know that if the Hawks had any kind of offense in the 4th they could have won this one. Now, like Woody likes to say, we get to see what we’re made of. I say tomorrow night is a must-win game. They can’t allow Cleveland to win both games.
What irritated me was to have to sit and watch C Webb say that the Hawks really didn’t surprise him. Once again, we had a chance to prove the doubters wrong on national TV and didn’t get it done.
FRESH
December 29th, 2009
10:58 pm
Well all I’m going to say is there is no way I’m going to continue to spend money on $115+ seats just to continue to get disapointed.
Heh, I guess I’ll just start watching games on the tube like the rest of you bums.
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
11:04 pm
JOE JOHNSON IS NOT A SUPERSTAR. THIS GAME IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE. LEBRON DEFERRED TO TEAMMATES AND LET THEM SHINE. ALL JOE HAD WAS HIS GODD@MN AGENDA ABOUT GETTING HIS CONTRACT, SO HE FORCED EVERYTHING AND SCREWED US UP.
SHAME ON YOU, MIKE WOODSON
SHAME ON YOU, JOE JOHNSON
SHAME ON YOU JOSH SMITH FOR MISSING 23895 FREE THROWS.
GIVE YOUR PAYCHECKS BACK
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
December 29th, 2009
11:04 pm
Truth, they’ll learn see when (if) we get better personnel. They’ll see the difference. It’s like talking to brick walls until then.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
December 29th, 2009
11:06 pm
Joe Johnson fades away in the biggest of games, He’s a very good players, I wouldnt call him a superstar though, atleast not yet.
Crawford has the biggest balls on the team.
truly1
December 29th, 2009
11:06 pm
tomorrow dont let delonte west do anything. tomorrow shaq could have 30 but dont let west go off on us talking stuff
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
December 29th, 2009
11:07 pm
It’s going to take more than horford to control the abuse we experienced in the paint on both ends tonight.
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
11:10 pm
I predict that Josh Smith has huge numbers tomorrow and we lose a close one
AND CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY WOODSON PULLS PLAYERS IN FOUL TROUBLE OR CLOSE TO FOUL TROUBLE? PLAYERS IN FOUL TROUBLE RARELY FOUL OUT.
STOP BEING A WIMP AND LEAVE HIM IN THERE
Rod from College Park
December 29th, 2009
11:14 pm
Was at the game tonight and here are my thoughts…..
I will agree with some of you that Marvin had a good defensive game tonight but that’s not the point. I will say this to all of you who think that Marvin shut Lebron down. Lebron and a couple of his teammates were partying hard at 3am last night at a very infamous club in the A. I left at 3am and they were still going hard. . Lot’s of Patron and bottles of Champagne that I can’t afford anymore were still flowing at 3am. Lebron looked very sluggish and actually looked like he was trying to get his teamates involved as opposed to taking over the game. I would not get to excited about Marvin’s defense tonight as he will have to face Lebron tomorrow on his birthday in Cleveland, with a star studded party planned for tomorrow night. I have made this point for two years. If Joe is off, no one in our starting lineup can create their own shot. Lebron was checking Marvin and leaves him wide open in the corner and is free to roam and help out on Joe. We have to have someone else on the floor who is a scoring threat at the 3 to open the floor up. WE WILL NOT WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS BECAUSE OF DEFENSE. We will have to outscore the Boston’s, Cleveland’s and Orlando’s of the world. They are too big inside, and we can not match up with them in a half court game. Woodson will have to play Teague if Bibby can’t hit the wide open jump shot. MARVIN has to be able to hit that wide open 3 pointer for us to be successful in the playoffs. Jamal Crawford should play more minutes than anyone on this team for his heart and offensive ability. We desperately need someone at the point or the 3 who can score and penetrate. . ,.
truly1
December 29th, 2009
11:18 pm
that is why bibby has to step up his game or bring in teague Rob
Rod from College Park
December 29th, 2009
11:19 pm
JeJe ,
“Give me a break on Marvin’s defense. He is not a “great” defender. LeBron wasn’t even trying to score 90% of the time. He forced 2 shots in the 4th. Besides that, he was looking for teammates (10 assists). He knows he can go off on our team any time he wants. He had 6″5 skinny Jamal Crawford on him for 10 minutes for crying out loud.”
I would have to agree JeJe. These clowns just can’t see the forest for the trees. Our problem in the playoffs last year was that we could not score. When the game slows down, that three position is vital, and we can never expect more than 12 points from a guy who is not guarded.
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
11:19 pm
EXACTLY, Rod from CP.
We need Antwawn Jamison or Josh Howard at the 3 — players who put the ball in the basket. Marvin was actually trying to take LBJ off the dribble — LOL.
And is that true about the Cavs partying hard at 3 AM? Like I said, LBJ can drop 60 on us without even blinking.We have no chance of stopping this guy. Then they have Mo who owns us, and Ilgauskas and Delonte are ALWAYS left open. We have no shot tomorrow
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
11:20 pm
Lol it’s sad because this was a GOOD game for Marvin, one of his best of the year, and he still only had 12 POINTS. LOL, trying to beat LBJ 1 on 1 then taking some awkward fadeway.
This team is a joke until it gets a legitimate 2nd scoring option from its starters. Has Bibby even scored 20 once this year?
rusty
December 29th, 2009
11:27 pm
lets face facts woody is a lousy coach offensively (ISO JOE offense ) & switching defense,no feel on how to use his bench,no feel on anything,he generates so much tension
that this team plays scared against the good teams our bench is weak,mo,zazza,joe smith & the rest are just taking up space. you cant throw them all out there together,you need to rotate them,you cant let jj dribbling & trying to take over the game & stopping all ball movement,he plays so much better when he is not trying to create. we need to trade him for a decent big man.jc is a better ball handler, a better creator & a better shooter. why dont we set up more plays for him to get more open shots when he is hot. we need to get teague more involved when bibby is not making his shots . what does woody bring to the table can anyone tell me,has he helped marvin develope besides giving him a lot of minutes
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
11:32 pm
Can someone on this team please commit a hard foul? If the game is virtually over and Delonte is talking trash, make him hit the floor.
Stop helping guys up after fouls — show a damn backbone for once
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
11:34 pm
I can’t believe that travel was called on Crawford. he’s done that shake-n-bake move a million times, and it was such a minute travel. There are hundreds of travels you can call during the game. Anyway, we blew so many layups and dunks. Watching Bibby go up for a dunk is like watching ZaZa try his Jordaesque moves
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
11:40 pm
So was tonight’s game a statement game or not? Before the game, James Verrett said the players were talking about how it’s any other game.
Damnit
O'Brien
December 29th, 2009
11:43 pm
The frustrating thing about Woody and the Hawks, is when they lose, you can usually blame it on the same reasons.
Too many ISO’s and one on ones, no offensive sets, ignoring the bench, and not defending the paint.
Its like deja vu all over again. Anyways, we are 1-2 against the big 3 of the East so far. It will be interesting to see how we play tomottow.
Big Ray
December 29th, 2009
11:44 pm
Rod ,
I see your point about the 3 position being vital from a scoring standpoint. Well, one option is to play Joe at the three and Crawford at the 2.
Also, you don’t guard a guy who doesn’t get shots. Marvin is our fifth option on offense. Now, we may disagree from time to time as to WHY, but it doesn’t change the fact that he’s only the fifth option in the starting five (or should I say, the starting six, counting Crawford).
Unfortunately, Bibby doesn’t have it anymore at the 1, not like he used to. He used to be able to light anybody up for 20+ on the offensive end, any night. Those days are gone. We need Jamal to score more than pass, so playing him at the 1 is a problem as well.
Actually, we’re pretty tough down low when Al and Josh hold their own, and we get decent contributions from Joe Smith and Zaza Pachulia. Unfortunately, we all too often don’t let either guy play enough, and wear down Al while playing Marvin at the 4 whenever Josh is out with foul trouble. It doesn’t work. Marvin just isn’t a 4….
Big Ray
December 29th, 2009
11:47 pm
As for Lebron partying hard…he’s one of the best players in the league, and the game was at 7:30 p.m. Dude shot 6-20. Marvin and Joe took turns guarding him, and he still got 10 assists.
Cavs won because we couldn’t stop Delonte and Mo Williams, who combined for nearly 40 points by themselves. But as usual, we’ll hear the whining about Horford not outrebounding and outscoring the opposition’s entire front court by himself…..
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
11:49 pm
Gotta agree with Big Ray.
Wtf is up with Bibby? He looks like he’s asleep out there. Like I said, HE NEEDS TO LOSE WEIGHT. LOSE 15 POINTS. MAKE HIS LEGS LIGHTER. RUN THE FLOOR QUICKER. I would take Louis Williams or any young PG over Bibby right now. This guy is not getting it done. His defense is nonexistent, and he doesn’t put up points. Damnit
Big Ray, what is your solution for the PG position?
Why the hawks really lost
December 29th, 2009
11:51 pm
Cavs stop Hawks in fourth quarter of 95-84 win
By CHARLES ODUM
Posted Dec 29 2009 9:54PM
ATLANTA(AP) The Cleveland Cavaliers held Atlanta scoreless for almost nine minutes to open the fourth quarter and scored the first 10 points of the period to break open a close game and beat the Hawks 95-84 on Tuesday night.
Mo Williams had 20 points to lead the Cavaliers, who won in their return to Philips Arena since completing a dominant four-game sweep of the Hawks in the second round of last season’s playoffs.
Delonte West had 17 points and Zydrunas Ilgauskas added 15 off Cleveland’s bench. LeBron James had 14 points, 10 assists and five steals but made only 6 of 20 shots from the field.
The Hawks were outscored 20-10 in the fourth quarter.
The Cavaliers led 75-74 entering the final period and stretched the lead to 85-74 before Josh Smith finally ended the Hawks’ drought that lasted 8:48 by scoring with 3:12 remaining. The Hawks were 0 for 10 from the field in the period before the basket.
Frustrations grew on the Atlanta bench during the long scoreless streak. Hawks coach Mike Woodson was called for a technical foul by official Leroy Richardson after complaining about a foul call against Smith with 7:55 remaining in the game.
With 4:40 remaining, Woodson looked to the scorer’s table and asked, “Have we scored this period?” He smiled sadly when his fears were confirmed.
The Hawks’ agony continued as Joe Johnson, who scored 15 points, missed a free throw. Jamal Crawford, who led Atlanta with 26 points, then missed two free throws with 4:08 remaining.
Crawford scored 17 of the Hawks’ 25 points in the second period, including his third 3-pointer of the period only 2 seconds before halftime. But the Cavaliers beat the Hawks on another fast-break basket, with James scoring at the buzzer on a pass from Jamario Moon.
The basket gave James only seven points in the half.
Smith drew his second foul with 1:24 remaining in the opening period and played only 3 minutes in the second period. He had 15 points and eight rebounds.