Hawks-Cavs thread
Greetings, all-
Hope everyone is enjoying some time off. This will be brief, and we’ll get to game time. I just saw the most interesting thing. Well, maybe that’s overselling it.
The Hawks have a practice gym next to their locker room at Philips Arena, and I was walking through there from the locker room to the media room. Joe Johnson had just left the locker room to go shoot, and when I saw him in the gym, I saw him throwing a ball to the far end of the court.
When I walked in the gym, I saw who (I assume) he threw the ball to – Shaquille O’Neal, who was practicing jump hooks with a Cavs staffer. Johnson left and got another ball, and started shooting with a team gopher. Mike Bibby came in shortly after, to work with Johnson on something, and as soon as Shaq saw Bibby, he makes a joke about a fixed game. I didn’t hear what they were talking about, but I’m guessing it had to do with Tim Donaghy’s allegations.
Bibby went to Shaq’s end of the court, and they continued talking about that game, all in good fun, just two friends giving each other a hard time. Johnson, meanwhile, started taking 3-pointers. There was little to suggest an important game was about an hour away. It was a quiet gym with guys taking shots at either end.
I may remember that as much as anything from the time I cover this team.
Anyway, some brief thoughts. I don’t know that this game means as much to Cleveland as it does the Hawks. The Hawks are talking about these two games as measuring sticks, and apparently, the Cavaliers were talking about their Christmas Day game with the Lakers the same way.
My prediction is that Jason Collins will play. I don’t know how much Joe Smith can give, and I’m sure that Mike Woodson is going to spend a lot of fouls on Cleveland’s big guys.
Something to watch – how Joe Johnson does. It’s not quite the same thing, but Johnson has outplayed Brandon Roy, Dwyane Wade and Deron Williams when they came to town. LeBron James is a different creature, of course, and a different position, but I think Johnson will want to perform, regardless.
Also, Al Horford. He didn’t play hardly at all in the playoffs – as I wrote in today’s notebook, he said in hindsight, he shouldn’t have even played and put himself at further risk of injury. He’s been on a roll and this, obviously, is a giant challenge (and also opportunity) for him.
Gotta start writing. Enjoy the game.
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419 comments Add your comment
Clyde
December 29th, 2009
9:39 pm
HAHAHA THAT MAN SAID STONELEG BIBBY LOL
BONE
December 29th, 2009
9:40 pm
The only thing bibby does better than teague at this point is shoot. Besides that he does nothin
O'Brien
December 29th, 2009
9:41 pm
These are the kind of games the Hawks will play in the playoffs. A slow down grind it out half court game. I am waiting for Samuel to tell us how Woody deserves his new contract right now.
And where is our offense? Players have to execute, but we have no offensive sets. Woody said he doesnt concern himself about offense. Well, tonight, the Hawks played good defense overall. But our offensive sets suck. Woody needs an offensive coordinator.
Teague should have gotten some burn tonight, because bench players play better at home, and Bibby sucked all night. 2 pts in 27 minutes. Teague gives us a change of pace, and he deserved some PT early in the game.
However, this is a team loss. I hope we can regroup for tomorrow.
BONE
December 29th, 2009
9:41 pm
Wabe what is he saying
J.J.M.
December 29th, 2009
9:42 pm
another thing hawks must did not watch game tape….dont throw alley hoops near lebron
d.carter
December 29th, 2009
9:42 pm
give me a bonifide scorer please…. joe doesnt live for the big moment…bibby should assume the roll of speedy claxton after he misses his first 2 jumpers
J.J.M.
December 29th, 2009
9:43 pm
yea he is bashing the hawks on nbatv
Ken Strickland
December 29th, 2009
9:43 pm
TOO MUCH WOODY BALL. Our halfcourt OFF is a joke when it comes to playing good DEF teams. If we’re not getting pts from running or hitting jumpshots, we have no options built into our OFF to fall back on. How can a HC just stand on the sidelines with his arms folded and allow JJ to go ISO and one on one against double/triple teams, while committing multiple turnovers, and allow it to continue happening?
JJ took over the OFF and shut Marvin, Horford, Crawford and Smoove out. He wouldn’t pass out of the constant double teams, and it’s obvious Woodson didn’t say or do a damn thing about it. A good overall team effort, especially on DEF, was simply wasted because JJ and Woodson prevented the team from continuing to play team basketball.
HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO TAKE JJ AND WOODSON TO REALIZE THIS ISO AND ONE ON ONE WOODY BALL B.S. HASN’T WORKED AND ISN’T GOING TO WORK?
BONE
December 29th, 2009
9:43 pm
We need to trade joe becuz he is gonna walk after this season. We need to get something for him.
J.J.M.
December 29th, 2009
9:44 pm
trade joe for mcgrady all i can think about
Sautee
December 29th, 2009
9:45 pm
bigdave,
Part of that is Crawford’s “role”. Remember that Woody TOLD him to “score, and don’t worry about passing.
But it’s the truth that we function more smoothly with Bibby running the offense.
BONE
December 29th, 2009
9:45 pm
Man Sund is sooooo smart for not giving woody a contrct. He sees that Woody is not a good coach.
bigdave
December 29th, 2009
9:45 pm
MIKE BIBBY SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THIS GAME…
MIKE BIBBY SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THIS GAME…
MIKE BIBBY SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THIS GAME…
Clyde
December 29th, 2009
9:46 pm
WHERE LITTLE RAY AT? His account of this game should be interesting.
And anyone thinking Marvin was a better pick than CP or Deron Williams must be working for the Hawks. The guy looks lost on the floor right now.
BONE
December 29th, 2009
9:48 pm
How many times are the hawks gonna choke when they play elite teams???????????
Clyde
December 29th, 2009
9:48 pm
“HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO TAKE JJ AND WOODSON TO REALIZE THIS ISO AND ONE ON ONE WOODY BALL B.S. HASN’T WORKED AND ISN’T GOING TO WORK?”
-Ken Strickland
FIRE WOODY
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
9:52 pm
You can see it with all 5 NBATV analyst, they are fustrated with the Hawks… This team will make up pull your hair out…
Wabe
December 29th, 2009
9:53 pm
The Hawks aren’t gonna look for any trades. I seriously doubt they’ll risk tampering with the team chemistry.
Personally, the Hawks played the Cavs tough tonite. Just missed opportunities. We had numerous chances to jump out and take control of this game, but couldn’t get over the hump.
The 4th quarter was just a pathetic offensive display. Too much one on one, not enough aggressiveness. The Cavs had about 3 team fouls heading into the 3 or 4 minutes stretch. We didn’t attack. That jumper in the quarter that Smoove attempted really just speaks for what we were doing in that 4th quarter.
Chris Webber on NBATV commented on the difference amongst tactics. Going into the playoffs, the Hawks are gonna get into plenty of these grind it out style of games, and they can’t expect their #1 guy (JJ) to go one on one to get buckets.
O'Brien
December 29th, 2009
9:53 pm
Clyde,
I am not a Marvin fan, but I thought he played a decent game tonight.
What do you know. Woody says he has to pick spots to give JJ a rest, especially when he’s struggling. (How many times does Woody tell you what he should have done AFTER the game).
The problem for the Hawks is they have no offensive sets. Most of JJ and Crawford’s points are ISO’s and 1 on 1’s.
cp
December 29th, 2009
9:54 pm
Once again no adjustments. This is why Sund did not give Woodson another contract. Like O’Brien said, this is the type of games we will see come playoff time and once again Ol Woodrow showed that he cant make adjustments to save his life. Once Cleveland adjusted their defense in the second quarter I knew the game was over. We never have a plan B. I mean never. Once plan A fails then we might as well pack it up and go home because Woodrow cant draw anything else up in the huddle. Sure after the game he will say all the right things about what we should have done but during the game he cant. We went from attacking the rim to setting for jumpers. The sad thing is I doubt we see anything different in the game tomorrow night. Can we please get a bigger sf to come off the bench?. Mo is way too small. Bibby gave us nothing but ol Woodrow once again just refused to give the rookie any burn to see if he could give us a spark. And we still have no offensive sets other than ISO ISO ISO
Big Ray
December 29th, 2009
9:55 pm
Clyde ,
I can’t do much besides agree with you and Ken on a number of points. I will say however, that Shaq daddy didn’t kill us. Oh he helped out when and where needed, just like the rest of the Cavs.
But y’all are right. We didn’t attack the basket enough, we shot too many jumpers, and we went to an ISO game that has rarely beaten the best teams.
‘Nuff said.
Clyde
December 29th, 2009
9:55 pm
This Hawks team reminds me of the Sacramento teams when Bibby was there. They were entertaining and won a lot of games but they just couldn’t take that leap to become an elite team to challenge for a championship.
I hate to say it but in another two years we might have to rebuild because JJ is gone and all our veterans are gonna fall apart.
FIRE WOODY
beau gust
December 29th, 2009
9:55 pm
fire Woody now. Don’t even need to replace him – he doesn’t coach anyway. That fourth quarter was pathetic!
J.J.M.
December 29th, 2009
9:55 pm
i think our point guard play was horrible other then crawford but nobody else stepped up
kwooden1
December 29th, 2009
9:57 pm
UGLY Loss!! I may be the only one to see some growth out of what was just a terrible 4th quarter. There are only 2 things I really wanted out of this game, #1 to see if the HAWKS could compete and #2 find an identity. Even though they lost and looked really bad in the 4th doing it, I think I saw both The HAWKS competed just fine for all of about 7 mins of the game and more importantly they are a fastbreaking, motion offensive team. Hopefully this game will really in-grain that style in their minds and it will keep them from having stretches like the 4th quarter again.
GO HAWKS!!!
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
9:57 pm
We have two problems when we play Cleveland.
1. We are undersized (but we did play them well enough to win).
2. We can’t hide Bibby on defense against this team. He can’t guard D.West or Mo Williams. Forger about Parker b/c D.West is the finisher for them…
Wabe
December 29th, 2009
9:58 pm
I’m surprised it took Woody so long to get Bibby back in the game in that 4th quarter seeing how badly we were struggling offensively. I understand his defense is non-existent and he wasn’t shooting the ball so great tonite, but it was clear we needed a guy in there to run the offense.
KevinA
December 29th, 2009
9:59 pm
Bibby played long enough to go 1-7 – how much Bibby do you want. JJ went cold – would not pass the ball and we quit going to our bigs till it was to little to late. The bench played like crap except for Jamal.
When Josh went to the bench we went from 8 up to 4 behind. Without Josh we just jack up jumpers. Where were the touches for Al – the most efficient player on our team.
Wabe
December 29th, 2009
10:00 pm
The Cavs were missing plenty of buckets in that 4th quarter as well…
We didn’t get out and run as much. Credit that to the Cavs playing good transition defense? Either that or the Hawks got out and played the halfcourt game that the Cavs wanted to play.
truly1
December 29th, 2009
10:00 pm
Well you guys cant blame this on marvin williams
Ken Strickland
December 29th, 2009
10:00 pm
IF YOU’RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU’RE PART OF THE PROBLEM. What does that mean? It means if HC MWoodson does absolutely nothing to stop what we’ve all seen JJ do time and time again, to the overall detriment of the team, then he’s the major part of the problem. If any on you believe the old saying that goes, ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS, then based on Woodson inaction when JJ goes ISO, JJ’s doing exactly what HC MWoodson wants.
kwooden1
December 29th, 2009
10:01 pm
Woody:
He did exactly what he always does and his defensive line-up couldn’t score in the fourth. I don’t think his substitutions where bad and the late tech wasn’t terrible. Overall, I don’t think he lost the game. He clearly saw the problem in the 4th, but probably took to long to bring Bibby back. But it might not have worked anyways.
GO HAWKS!!!
Clyde
December 29th, 2009
10:02 pm
Good post Little Ray. Me and Ken have a t-shirt waiting for u when u decide to join the FIRE WOODY team.
Just like I said 2 years ago Woody is Woody. He has had dam near 6 years to develop and offensive system but he hasn’t. The question now is why hasn’t he?
FIRE WOODY
d.carter
December 29th, 2009
10:04 pm
constant pick and rolls should be the hawks offense…. for crying ot loud set a legitimate screen for once in yur damn life…za za is the only person who sets legit screen…please stop with the 1 on 1 ball
BONE
December 29th, 2009
10:05 pm
Clyde u need to send me one of those shirts. I want woody fired 2nite.
d.carter
December 29th, 2009
10:06 pm
send me one 2…. we need avery johnson dmmit
KevinA
December 29th, 2009
10:06 pm
Like most of our losses, we are guard heavy on the shot attempts. Give the ball to Al – our best and most efficient shooter. Let him lose one. The guards have lost enough.
newkid
December 29th, 2009
10:07 pm
Ugly 4th. We played 36 when we needed to play 48. Hold your heads up guys, tomorrow night’s rematch is just around the corner. And then comes an absolutely brutal January.
Let’s go get ‘em Hawks!
kwooden1
December 29th, 2009
10:15 pm
Things to work on:
#1 – Horford and JSmoove have to face-up and go by slower defenders.
#2 – Only one shot blocker go to contest shots, we give up to many 2nd chances because guys are out of position.
#3 – JJ needs to stay in the pick and roll. One-on-ones should be reserved for secondary breaks and late clock situations.
bigdave
December 29th, 2009
10:21 pm
Jamal Crawford is not a pg people… say what you want about Bibby’s shooting tonight but he manages this mess of an offense. the series of sloppy play in the 4th when it was like 6 consecutive turnovers on both ends, we finally call a time out and we come out with the same unit that just ran up and down. pff… get your starting PG in the game and run something; and its not like we loss this game with the ball in Joe’s hands. we lost composure on the court, went into panic mode. our guards need to learn to pump fake with defenders running at them. bigs need to give the ball to guards on the break and run the floor. sick of this offense. we were exposed tonight. when we get a legit scheme we can talk about contending. hats off to Marvin. a win tomorrow makes for a good rivalry cause those Cavs were talking much shyt. tired or not, we should be pissed.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
December 29th, 2009
10:21 pm
The Hawks need major changes in coaching philosophy OR personnel changes to compete with Orlando and Cleveland in a series…it’s just like that.
Woodson doesnt have a real half court offense, it’s just street ball mentality of “take your guy off the dribble.”
When we are playing a team with good D like the CAVS, and we have a bunch of guys on the court who arent good one on one players, then we are going to have those offensive lapses. (Bibby, can only shoot…cant drive; Marvin, cant drive without stumbling, Josh, cant shoot or dribble)
That’s why Crawford did so well, the way Woodson likes for it to be done on offense is right up Crawford’s alley.
O'Brien
December 29th, 2009
10:22 pm
kwooden1,
One reason guys are out of position is because of our switching defense.
I look forward to seeing what adjustments Woody makes for the game tomorrow, because its all about adjustments. Cleveland adjusted in the second quarter, and the Hawks didnt.
Where are the Woody supporters who were saying that Woody should feel disrespected because he hasnt been offered an extension as yet? Sund is waiting until after the playoffs to decide. And thats the correct move.
newkid
December 29th, 2009
10:22 pm
#4 – Get Al more FG attempts.
Bright side of a potentially bleak (hope not) January is the fact that it’s JANUARY, and affords Sund the opportunity look very closely at the on-court product and determine if/what moves he’ll need to make in February to get us ready for the post-allstar break playoff run.
Ken Strickland
December 29th, 2009
10:23 pm
DO ALL OF YOU REMEMBER WHEN I MENTIONED IN AN EARLIER POST THAT YOU SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO OUR PG PLAY?
Did all of you Bibby supporters see the advantages of having PG’s that can post up, penetrate, create inside scoring opportunities, attack the basket and/or get the opposing Bigs in foul trouble? Did you also notice the disadvantage of having a slow, nonpenetrating, one dimensional jumpshooting PG who’s not hitting his jumper? I won’t mention the tremendous advantage of having one that actually plays DEF.
All of those intangibles you Bibby supporters are so fond of emphasizing didn’t do Bibby or the team any good when it came down to it. I find it hard to believe Teague could have done any worse. At least Teague has the talent and potential to get better if given the opportunity, especially against top competition, but Bibby won’t.
kwooden1
December 29th, 2009
10:24 pm
Bibby:
He’s clearly the catalyst for our offensive and needs to be on the floor as long as possible. I think the only solution is to use a Mike D’Antoni style defensive; immediately double all post-ups and trap all pick and rolls Bibby’s involved in. I think this would cut down on the confusion created by the mis-matches during the constant switching. This type of defense isn’t ideal for half-court “Play-off” basketball, but it doesn’t have to be. It just has to effective against certain teams in certain situations.
GO HAWKS!!!
Jody
December 29th, 2009
10:26 pm
A lack of offensive sets is one thing, but they’re meaningless when you don’t have the personnel to get easy baskets in the half court set. And again, the size differential played a big part in this game on both ends as it allowed the Cavs a greater margin of error. The Hawks can get up and down the floor with the best of them, but the next step is becoming a better half court team on both ends and they’ll have to get the personnel to do it.
Ole Hawk's Fan
December 29th, 2009
10:26 pm
Coach showed tonight why he should not be brought back to coach this team. The kid from Wake got a DNP when Nique said the Hawks should push the ball. Our 14 Million Man goes invisible and why does he stay outside dribbling the Ball between his legs as the shot clock runs down. He will not get this type salary as a free agent next year. Bringing Bibby back wasn’t a good move becuz he gives you nothing in BIG GAMES(remember Cleveland & Boston in the playoff last year when RONDO MADE HIM LOOK LIKE THE ROOKIE). Trade Da 14 Million Dollar Man if there are any takers……………….Let Woody Go………….Please Don’t bring him back…………..Find some way to get slow, non-defensive playing Bibby out of here.
Mac-Town'z Finest 478
December 29th, 2009
10:27 pm
True@Jody
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
10:31 pm
What an embarrassing game
1) Joe did absolutely nothing. WTF was this guy thinking? He kept driving into a wall, EVERY time and was selfish
2) Why the HELL was Crawford not takign EVERY shot in the 4th?
3) What makes Al Horford think he’s a good post player? Every time he has the ball in the post he’s on a mission but messes up 90 % of the time
4) Marvin actually played okay
5) JOSH MAKE YOUR DAMN FREE THROWS
Mychelfromatl
December 29th, 2009
10:33 pm
JUST GOT BACK FROM THE GAME….
FIRST AND FOREMOST..HATS OFF TO MARVIN WILLIAMS..WHAT HE DID MAY NOT SHOW UP IN THE STAT SHEET, BUT THIS DUDE PLAYED ONE OF THE BEST DEFENSIVE GAMES AGAINST LEBROM THAT I’VE SAW ANYBODY PLAY..NICE WORK MARVIN..AND FOR THOSE WHO WILL SOMEONE GO ALONG WITH THEIR MARVIN RANTS..GO HEAD BECAUSE IT WILL FALL ON DEAF EARS.
FOR ANYBODY THAT SAY AL CAN’T HOLD HIS ON AS A CENTER CAN IT. MATTER OF FACT..I GOTTA GIVE A CUDOS TO THE FRONTLINE AS A WHOLE..AL, JOSH( DUDE STAY OUTTA FOUL TROUBLE), MARVIN, ZAZA.
NOW FOR THE BACKCOURT…JOE (DUDE ARE YOU REALLY PLAYING FOR A BIG TIME CONTRACT?), JAMAL, MO EVANS. ALL IM GOING TO SAY IS THAT PERFORMANCE IN THE FOURTH QUARTER WAS DISHEARTENING. C’MON FELLAS…FIRST ORLANDO, NOW THIS…I CANT LIE I’M DISSAPOINTED AS HELL.
COACH WOODSON…MIKE BIBBY NEEDED TO PLAY THE WHOLE FOURTH QUARTER..FOR THOSE THAT CAN’T UNDERSTAND BIBBY’S VALUE..THERE YOU HAVE IT.
SHOUTS TO THE FANS…WE TRIED TO HOLD ON TO THE END…BUT MAN!!
NOW, THERE IS NOTHING I SAW THAT TELLS ME THE HAWKS CAN’T BEAT CLEVELAND TOMORROW IF THEY COME TO PLAY (JOE, JAMAL, MO EVANS).
THIS IS DISSAPOINTING, BUT IT CAN ALL BE MADE RIGHT TOMORROW.