On to Indiana
Greetings, all-
Hope those of you who celebrated had a joyful Christmas. I spent mine with my family, including my two nephews who are in that Lego-toy car phase, so it was a lot of fun watching them enjoy their presents.
Anyway, onto the Pacers. I am at home and not with the team, so don’t have a lot to offer. I’ll say this. This is the last respite the Hawks get for awhile. Starting with the home-and-home with Cleveland, the Hawks play 11 of their next 17 against teams over .500. Seven are away, and seven are against Boston-Cleveland-Orlando. And of those “Big Three” seven, all of them are back-to-backs. It’s some pretty tough sledding. Against Indiana, the Hawks had best gather their rosebuds while they may, as it were. (Hopefully I understood the poem correctly. I was an economics major, not English.)
One interesting thing from the article I wrote for Saturday’s paper, talking to Joe Johnson, Dominique Wilkins, Steve Holman and Peachtree Hoops blogger Drew Ditzel about the season, looking back and ahead – what stuck out to me was that the predictions for wins were between 50 and 55. That means that the expectation is that the Hawks will fall off their current .714 pace. Right now, they’re on pace for 58-59 wins. But to go, say, 53-29, that means the Hawks would have to go 33-21 the rest of the way, which is .611 ball. Not bad at all, obviously, but not as good as they’ve done so far.
Looking at the next stretch, you’d have to think if they get through the next 17 anywhere above .500, it would be a success. Interesting link about Hawks’ schedule thus far. According to the formulas, the Hawks ought to be 22-6.
So, Indiana. The Pacers are without Danny Granger (torn plantar fascia) and have lost four in a row. Like I said the other day, I think the Hawks win this one, though it may be tougher than you might otherwise expect. (Standard proviso: I am wrong a lot on a variety of things.)
Anyway, something to consider watching Hawks-Pacers. Indiana has “lost seven games in which they led or were tied in the fourth quarter, including each of the past three,” according to an article by Indianapolis Star Pacers writer Mike Wells. That includes losses to Boston Dec. 22, when the Pacers led by 15 at halftime, Orlando, San Antonio and Portland.
This is off the topic, but I asked Steve Holman, the Hawks’ radio guy, to name his all-decade team. It’ll be in the Sunday paper. In checking out the story, I came upon something I’d completely forgotten about. The Hawks drafted Pau Gasol in 2001 as part of a trade to get Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Our own Mark Bradley was, praising then-GM Pete Babcock, saying that, through the trade and other moves, “he has remade a roster that ranked with the league’s worst, turning into an assemblage – might as well say it – of playoff caliber.” I’m going to have to guess Mark was not alone in his opinion.
Follow me here, though. The Hawks also got Vancouver’s first-round pick in that trade, which they traded to Indiana (used on Jamaal Tinsley) for a future first-round pick. Two years later, the Hawks used the Pacers’ pick to get Boris Diaw. And, as you know, Diaw and two first-rounders later went to Phoenix for Joe Johnson. So, maybe it wasn’t all so bad. (Though, you are free to point out, I’m going to guess the trade didn’t exactly hinge on Boris Diaw being a part of the deal.) (Sorry to ramble. I often find the long-term effects of trades kind of interesting.)
Happy Saturday and Hawks watching.
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287 comments Add your comment
KevinA
December 29th, 2009
11:57 am
With all the complaints about Marvin I agree with Ken our weakest link is Bibby. But the old man is going nowhere soon and neither is Marvin. At the end of next year? Maybe. Alot depends on the developement of Teague and how Marvin is playing at the end of this year.
To change subjects I would like Rando to get enough playing time to decide if he will be our fourth big of the future with the idea of him becoming our 3rd big. I love ZaZa but Rando shows flashes of great feel around the basket. The kid like Teague needs a decent shot.
Samuel
December 29th, 2009
12:02 pm
“Bibby is our biggest weakness”. What a joke. How about we ask the players.
Some of yall were counting Cleveland and “My Boy” Shaq out a few days ago. Merry Christmas, ShaqAClause is back. They showed that the Lakers are still soft inside.
If we could get a player like TMac. Hell yea!! Why not. We need something else to put us a little closer to the “Big Three”. Plus, it would be more insurance in case JJ walks.
Miss Horford,
I’ve been telling these clowns that JJ is waiting to see what the ASG does with Woody for a while. They don’t believe me. Nice to see that someone else can see the less obvious. Good observation.
O'Brien
December 29th, 2009
12:05 pm
The Hawks defense (especially Marvin and Bibby) will be key, because if we get caught up in the switching, our bigs will end up in foul trouble.
We need Bibby to pressure the ball and slow down Mo Williams, although I wont be surprised to see JJ guard Mo Williams.
We’ve talked about Marvin’s defense and his disappearing act. Well, this is one game where he can make an impact. We know LeBron is going to get his, but Marvin needs to make LBJ work. And if Marvin can get some points, then LBJ would have to play some defense too.
Mz. Hawkdafied
December 29th, 2009
12:05 pm
Mo Williams was making D Fish look so bad, Kobe decided that the only way to deal with it was to make a dirty play and knock Mo down. The Cavs exposed the Lakers. Lamar Odom didn’t do jack but get thrown out of the game. The Lakers lost it. Even Phil Jackson wanted to blame the refs. SMH
My main concern is that the Hawks and Coaches stay level headed, keep their cool, and just play their game. Play their game to win that is. Stay focused. Stick with what works. And scratch whatever doesn’t work. And for goodness sake keep Lebron from doing his little gay dance on the sidelines. Who the heck told him he could dance? He needs to stick with basketball.
Samuel
December 29th, 2009
12:05 pm
Joe,er
These clowns are infatuated with “dunks” and BS like that. I call them “Nintendo GMs”. Fisher is a winner. Funny how Phil chooses to play him over young “studs” like Farmar and Brown.
Fire The Zen Master
Mz. Hawkdafied
December 29th, 2009
12:10 pm
No JJ just wants to be a part of the prestigious class of 2010 free agents. That’s my observation.
Rufus1
December 29th, 2009
12:12 pm
I don’t want to trade Bibby, I just want a back-up PG who can defend and penetrate. I believe Bibby is an important asset to the teams success and we will need his shooting and leadership in the playoffs.
If you remember when we played the Hornets last year and ACLAW was able to stop Paul from penetrating at will…the game change immediately. I would simply like a defensive option at PG.
Astro Joe
December 29th, 2009
12:17 pm
If you’re looking for world class dunkers, check out the Harlem Globetrotters. Me, I’ll take someone like Derek Fisher, Mike Bibby or Joe Johnson over Steve Francis, Nate Robinson or Corey Maggette each and every time.
KevinA
December 29th, 2009
12:58 pm
You might think of Bibby or Marvin as our weakest link. One could make a fair argument either way. What I am waiting for is the kudos to Woody for cutting both of their minutes and giving them to Jamal. Jamal, Bibby, Teague, Evans, Marvin all are subject to bench time when they are cold. We should recognize the improvement in this area.
RLP
December 29th, 2009
12:59 pm
I love the fact that right now we stand tied for third in the NBA in fewest losses. I love the fact that the two teams ahead of us both lost last night and are one and two losses respectively ahead of the Hawks in losses. So far this has been a great season for the Hawks.
But I am also a fan with many memories. I remember a time in the 80’s when the Hawks were competing with Detroit for becoming a truly elite ball team. If memory serves me correctly the Hawks defeated the Pistons in the playoffs one year just as both teams were reaching for the stars. I noticed that some people on this blog have pointed to other teams that stood on the cusp of greatness and then fell back. The Dallas team that was defeated by the refs and DWade is one example. The Suns have been in that role a number of times.
At this point none of us know what the outcome of this team’s push for greatness will actually deliver. Today we may be at that high point. Two losses to the Cavaliers and a tough schedule in January may see this team crashing back to earth. The team may then really be in a fight with the Heat for fourth place. Or the team may soar upward toward greatness. Who knows? That is why they play the games isn’t it?
My feeling is that this year’s team is an improvement over last year’s team. The team is simply better. But who knows how much better? We begin to answer that question tonight. Let’s get it on.
Jody
December 29th, 2009
1:08 pm
O’Brien,
Though I don’t have any numbers off the top of my head, I would say that when the Hawks play the elite teams and both teams play extremely well, the elite teams usually win because of the advantages they enjoy at certain crucial positions though I admit that the flow of the game, tempo and style of play have an impact. Again, I think the Hawks are a very good team and are moving in the right direction, but they are not yet an elite team as many call them. I think they are one or two moves away.
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
1:15 pm
RLP, co-sign your post…
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
1:16 pm
Astro Joe,
Come on. Steve Francis was one of the best players in the league before the injuries…
Hawk n the Ham
December 29th, 2009
2:00 pm
I can’t help but think this game is going to be decided by the bench. Can the Hawks play great D and push the ball up floor with the 2nd team on the court?
The Hawks rely so much on D and fast breaks but LBJ makes it difficult with him on the floor because he is the best come from behind defender in the NBA.
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
2:22 pm
Hawk n the Ham,
You must have missed Josh previous 5yr in the league. He use to do that on the regular. Now that Lebron started doing it last year, some how it became so popular….
Speaking of Josh, if he want to be an All-Star this year then he need to show up big in this miniseries against the Cavs….
In Josh we Trust…
Hawk n the Ham
December 29th, 2009
2:29 pm
Melv –
I’m with you brother. Gotta love the Smoove.
I’m pumped for tonight, wish I was in ATL for this one. I hope ZaZa plays clean up and lays LBJ out a couple of times tonight. Also, I’m glad this one isn’t on ESPN or TNT. I hate watching my Hawks and having to listen to the national media commentators make man love to the likes of the LBJs and Wades.
doc
December 29th, 2009
2:30 pm
rlp you are right to say the cusp of the season is upon us. excellent well grounded statements for the next few weeks. should be fun to be a hwaks fan again and regain some relevance.
melvin check you out tonight dude? with my son. manny t others will look out for you as well.
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
2:37 pm
Doc,
Sorry, but I will not be there tonite (no Kiss Cam). However, I will be there for the Boston game..
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
2:39 pm
Doc, not sure if you saw my post last night…
Melvin
December 28th, 2009
9:26 pm
Doc,
I’m watching your boy Yi going to work against OKC (10-16, 26pts 6rebs, 2steals thru 3qtrs of work). As I sugguested to you a few months ago, don’t give up on him yet. I think he will be a late bloomer. You know, how people like to refer to Marvin… Heck, let’s swap Yi for Marvin right now…LOL
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
2:43 pm
Hawk n Ham,
I agreee. I use to like Lebron but now I’m sick of his overhype (you know what)… Can somebody shut them damn puppets up…
Samuel
December 29th, 2009
2:47 pm
Monta Ellis is a beast
theZaZaguy
December 29th, 2009
3:11 pm
I hope Lebron storms off in a hissyfit after getting humiliated by the hawks. I so wish I wouldn’t have sold my tickets. I’m having sellers remorse.
Did any of you catch nba gametime after beating the pacers? They were going ga ga over how atheletic we are. They actually said that Boston and Cleveland would be afraid to face us in the second round and they threw out the possibility that we may even have home court in the second round. Nice to see we’re finally getting the respect from some of the national media.
bigdave
December 29th, 2009
3:30 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW9f_oC8fEs
“All grown up gotta fly with the rest.”
“Best of the best is what we strive to be.
A legacy is what we trying to leave.
Ya dig?”
“We tired of being runners up.
We coming up. Yup.
We ready for whatever you put in front of us.”
lets get it…
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
3:44 pm
Melvin,
Jason Richardson, Nash, Kobe and Iverson can still run. Why can’t Bibby?
BECAUSE THEY’RE IN SHAPE
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
3:46 pm
Where is the game blog?
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
3:57 pm
JeJe that’s a mixed group to compare Bibby to but none of those guys has gotten quicker or more atheletic age they age. Hence, how often you seen J.Rich (former dunk champ) get rundown from behind (Josh/Lebron/G.Wallace) and get his dunk block. Nash, doesnt have the same gear/motor he used to have, thats why Phx is grooming his backup Drogan(misp). Kobe went to Houston learn post move from the Dream this summer b/c he’s not flying over people like he use to. Iverson, Come’on man (in my Chris Carter voice). He has definitely loss a step or two….
MannyT
December 29th, 2009
3:59 pm
Let’s go Hawks!!!!
As much as I would enjoy being there tonight, I am still on holiday break. Will try to catch it on TV if I get to the right place by game time. Might be back for next game.
Melvin, I’ll see you at Boston. Unfortunately, WSS didn’t hold up well against Tech today.
Samuel, I think it will be tricky for anyone to get T-Mac. The Rockets must love having an expiring contract worth $23 mil. Could be worse, he could be Eddie Curry who is in a worse career position (but better financially) than Nate (buried under the bench) Robinson.
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/if-curry-wants-out-knicks-can-make-it-happen/
BWAF
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
4:00 pm
Manny T,
Look like the Hornets have started Operation Salary Dump:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Wolves-get-Devin-Brown-cash-from-Hornets-for-Ja;_ylt=Ann157PipYVdCUVDJ4jDHAm8vLYF?urn=nba,211103
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
4:03 pm
they should have read in my 3:57 post…
*as they aged
Melvin
December 29th, 2009
4:07 pm
Houston may have no choice but to buyout TMac contract unless they could get KMart for Sactown. It’s too big to trade and they have no leverage consider other teams know he’s not wanted in Houston anymore…
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AmLqNcAPssdhJrBArqN_szS8vLYF?slug=aw-mcgradyrockets122809&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
JeJe
December 29th, 2009
4:27 pm
Melvin,
Those guys have mostly stayed in shape and have not gotten much slower. Bibby looks horrendous out there. The guy could hardly win a foot race with an injuerd Ilgasukas for crying out loud
Justin
December 29th, 2009
5:40 pm
Huge games tonight and tomorrow for psychological reasons if nothing else, to flush the memory of last year’s playoff series. Plus the schedule the next month is absolutely brutal. I can’t ever remember seeing a stretch that tough. 7 games against Orl, Cavs, and C’s, plus road games in Houston, San Antonio, Miami and home against Suns? Even the Thunder and Kings are tough these days. Would be great to get off to a good start with a few W’s.
Ken Strickland
December 29th, 2009
5:41 pm
ASTRO JOE-you said that Bibby is our best overall PG. Well, that’s our biggest problem. Bibby’s scoring fewer than 10PPG(9.6) and is averaging only 4.2APG in 28MPG, which barely beats out Smoove’s 3.5APG. Teague’s averaging 3.7PPG and 2.1APG in only 10.8MPG. It’s not a difficult proposition to assume if Teague was given Bibby’s MPG, and the same support from Woodson, he could give us more assists, steals, rebounds, at least as much scoring, and far superior DEF.
You like to make an issue of Bibby’s low turnover rate and abiility to protect the ball. Well, what PG wouldn’t get the same results if he controlled the ball only half the time, didn’t penetrate, and very rarely ventured below the top of the key with the ball in his hands? How can anyone look at how dominant we can be when playing solid DEF, yet make excuses for a player that’s rather one dimensional on OFF and contributes so little on the DEF?
Daniel
December 29th, 2009
5:45 pm
Guys, I am very excited about the game tonight, just like everyone else. We finally get to put a lot of this controversy to the test. Does the bigger but OLD front court of Clevland dominate the Hawks younger, smaller, quicker front court? Whose bench does the best work? Can our back court dominate? Will LeBron take over completely? Will the refs treat the Hawks fairly? (Big If) Will Clevland have a hangover?
Go Hawks.
Daniel
December 29th, 2009
5:49 pm
Ken- What Bibby brings to this team is sooo much more than just stats. If you notice when he is in the game, the team plays much more undercontrol and with confidence. His expierenc and leadership skills are his best value to this team right now. I like Teague a lot and think he will be very good in another 2 years, but you CANNOT extrapolate his stats based on minutes. He is going against 2cd and 3rd stringers in a totally different game situation. Is it really that hard to understand that an aging but still effective pg with serious big game expierence brings more to the table than a rookie pg who is only a third of the way into his first season?
Ken Strickland
December 29th, 2009
5:53 pm
We’re all hoping the Hawks can weather the next stretch of tough gms against some tough opponents fininishing at 500 of above. That’s why I’ve made such an issue when we managed to lose gms, and badly, to losing teams.
Steven A.
January 9th, 2010
9:39 pm
JOE FOR T-MAC
JOE JOHNSON “NOT A RANCHISE PLAYER” I WOULD TAKE DOMINIQUE RIGHT NOW.
SHOP JOE JOHNSON PLEASE!!!!! Dude is NOT, I repeat, is Not, a number one option. Time and Time
again “wanna be FRANCHISE PLAYER” JOE JOHNSON dissapears against the ELITE teams in the
NBA. PLEASE, RICK SUND, do us all a favor and put us out of our misery; Trade Johnson while he
still has value and take STARVIN MARVIN with him. I’d even take on T-MAC.