On to Indiana

Greetings, all-

Hope those of you who celebrated had a joyful Christmas. I spent mine with my family, including my two nephews who are in that Lego-toy car phase, so it was a lot of fun watching them enjoy their presents.

Anyway, onto the Pacers. I am at home and not with the team, so don’t have a lot to offer. I’ll say this. This is the last respite the Hawks get for awhile. Starting with the home-and-home with Cleveland, the Hawks play 11 of their next 17 against teams over .500. Seven are away, and seven are against Boston-Cleveland-Orlando. And of those “Big Three” seven,  all of them are back-to-backs. It’s some pretty tough sledding. Against Indiana, the Hawks had best gather their rosebuds while they may, as it were. (Hopefully I understood the poem correctly. I was an economics major, not English.)

One interesting thing from the article I wrote for Saturday’s paper, talking to Joe Johnson, Dominique Wilkins, Steve Holman and Peachtree Hoops blogger Drew Ditzel about the season, looking back and ahead – what stuck out to me was that the predictions for wins were between 50 and 55. That means that the expectation is that the Hawks will fall off their current .714 pace. Right now, they’re on pace for 58-59 wins. But to go, say, 53-29, that means the Hawks would have to go 33-21 the rest of the way, which is .611 ball. Not bad at all, obviously, but not as good as they’ve done so far.

Looking at the next stretch, you’d have to think if they get through the next 17 anywhere above .500, it would be a success. Interesting link about Hawks’ schedule thus far. According to the formulas, the Hawks ought to be 22-6.

So, Indiana. The Pacers are without Danny Granger (torn plantar fascia) and have lost four in a row. Like I said the other day, I think the Hawks win this one, though it may be tougher than you might otherwise expect. (Standard proviso: I am wrong a lot on a variety of things.)

Anyway, something to consider watching Hawks-Pacers. Indiana has “lost seven games in which they led or were tied in the fourth quarter, including each of the past three,” according to an article by Indianapolis Star Pacers writer Mike Wells. That includes losses to Boston Dec. 22, when the Pacers led by 15 at halftime, Orlando, San Antonio and Portland.

This is off the topic, but I asked Steve Holman, the Hawks’ radio guy, to name his all-decade team. It’ll be in the Sunday paper. In checking out the story, I came upon something I’d completely forgotten about. The Hawks drafted Pau Gasol in 2001 as part of a trade to get Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Our own Mark Bradley was, praising then-GM Pete Babcock, saying that, through the trade and other moves, “he has remade a roster that ranked with the league’s worst, turning into an assemblage – might as well say it – of playoff caliber.” I’m going to have to guess Mark was not alone in his opinion.

Follow me here, though. The Hawks also got Vancouver’s first-round pick in that trade, which they traded to Indiana (used on Jamaal Tinsley) for a future first-round pick. Two years later, the Hawks used the Pacers’ pick to get Boris Diaw. And, as you know, Diaw and two first-rounders later went to Phoenix for Joe Johnson. So, maybe it wasn’t all so bad. (Though, you are free to point out, I’m going to guess the trade didn’t exactly hinge on Boris Diaw being a part of the deal.) (Sorry to ramble. I often find the long-term effects of trades kind of interesting.)

Happy Saturday and Hawks watching.

287 comments Add your comment

bigdave

December 26th, 2009
12:07 pm

lets get it…

G-dot

December 26th, 2009
12:07 pm

G-dot

December 26th, 2009
12:08 pm

Damn bigdave thought i had you. Anyways the Hawks win easy tonight.

jgsbirds

December 26th, 2009
12:11 pm

in nashville so i won’t get to see my hawks tonight in indiana…unfortunately fox sports here is showing the predators and then an afternoon grizzlies game. good luck boys sure do need a win tonight.

Benjamin

December 26th, 2009
1:05 pm

Ken, as an English teacher, I have to point something out…

“Onto Indiana?”

Come on, man! :)

MannyT

December 26th, 2009
1:06 pm

He said he was an econ major. :-)

Benjamin

December 26th, 2009
1:12 pm

lol Manny…

I’m just hoping to be acknowledged. Bradley doesn’t acknowledge my presence…

On a serious note, re: the upcoming schedule, I’m going to be very surprised if we can whip our way through it. The home and home vs. Cleveland will be telling, but it’s going to be brutal. If we can get through there at a 9-8 or 10-7 pace, I’m going to be super excited as a Hawks fan.

MannyT

December 26th, 2009
1:47 pm

Now is the time that the Hawks will show how legitmate they are. Next week starts the run of games against the better teams. I don’t want to overlook Indiana, but the games from now to Groundhog’s Day will really show where we stand.

KenS–the next 2 blocks of 10 games will be more telling. I hope the contest continues.

BWAF

Fire Woodson

December 26th, 2009
1:57 pm

Ken,

Diaw was traded because he had many porblems with Woodson. Ken, Billy Knight drafted great, but Woodson refused to play the talent he was given……..Thats why the whole rebuliding process took 5 years instead of 2 or 3. Diaw, Soudamire,Solomon Jones, and now Morris all were waisted…. The only pick that Knight made that was bad, was the Sheldon Williams over Roy….i wish we had Diaw off the bench now though…..

Ken what do you think about Marvin’s Game? I think he is very talented but he will never put up the stats because Joe and Jamal shoot every time they touch the ball.

I MUS WRITE

December 26th, 2009
3:04 pm

Marvin is a classic underacheiver…..I cant think of one team in the league where he would be the man or even a #2 option. Watch the game closely tonight-Marvin will get his shot blocked atleast twice,disappear for long stretches of the game,and at some point make u say WTF
I never liked the Abdul Rahim trade -I just thought Gasol would be better for us in the long run.

O'Brien

December 26th, 2009
3:30 pm

Cleveland dominated LA on the road yesterday, and Boston won in Orlando (without Pierce).

I know that we beat Boston in Boston earlier, but Boston also shot horribly from 3 that game.

With our schedule coming up, I look forward to seeing the Hawks rise up, and win some of these games (not just the home games).

I think Hawks win big tonight

BosnianBaller

December 26th, 2009
3:45 pm

That shareef trade made sense he was a 20 and 10 guy and he was the final piece of the rebuilding project.The Hawks had talented players,but the chemistry wasn’t there.
C-Theo Ratliff
PF-Abdur-Rahim
F-Glen Robinson
G-Jason Terry
G-Dan Dickau/Emannual Davis

tjhook

December 26th, 2009
3:49 pm

Marvin Williams is not going to solve our problems (defensive perimeter, an increase in aggressive scorers). If Williams was traded for say, a future first-round pick, could Childress be brought back from overseas? Also, could you ask Sund whatever happened to Mickeal Gelabale?

South ga boy in the atl

December 26th, 2009
4:47 pm

I mus write- I can’t understand the hatorade that gets poured all over marvin on this blog. Yes I know he was take no. 2 overall, but this mentality of he either has to be mello or he’s a bust just because he was taken no. 2 is dead wrong. There is a middle ground ya know. Yea I know he can look clumsy at times and he is a streaky shooter, but disappear. When it comes to offense there is only 1 ball, you realize that don’t you. He’s usually on the floor with the the team leader (Joe) who btw is around top 10 in scoring every yr, bibby who must be scoring or can’t really contribute because of his age and lack of defensive ability, Jamal who is and always has been a pure scorer for as long as he’s been in the league, and 2 guys down low (al and Josh) who avg double figures every night. I’m not sure what you see when you look at Marvin but what I see is a 23, let me say that again, 23 yr old 6′9″ forward with a tremendous wing span and good leaping ability who can be a long range shooter of 3’s (yes I said streaky but he can hit them which is more than you can say for Josh whose game I love- don’t get me wrong) and who can drive to hole and use either hand. A guy who brings good chemistry to the team (loved by his teammates) and has never been accused of any knucklehead stuff. He’s made tremendous improvement after just one yr of college ball and if he as on a team that needed him to score more then he would. I mean, hello, we were 4th in the league in scoring the last I checked. You Marvin haters need to get over it. He contributes in many different areas. He’s a team player and is willing to do whatever woody needs him to do. And did I mention HE’S 23. He will only get better !!!!!!

JeJe

December 26th, 2009
5:08 pm

Today’s game is a respite? Were the away NOH game, the home Knicks game, and away Chicago game a respite too?

JeJe

December 26th, 2009
5:09 pm

Why does everyone want Childress back? I don’t even think the guy is healthy.

He’s a frail player who puts up no numbers, has “this guy has no B-Ball IQ” moments, a horrific jumpshot he cannot get off contested, and only wants money

South ga boy in the atl

December 26th, 2009
5:24 pm

Oh JeJe I couldn’t agree more. Why would we want childress back. I wouldn’t trade Mo for 2 Childress’s. Mo gets 2.5 mil a yr and childress wanted 6+ mil per and I would pay Mo more than I would childress. Mo can score, he will hit a big 3 for you that chills never could and Mo works just as hard around the basket. Our gain (Mo), is Greece’s loss (chills)

LL Cool Scott

December 26th, 2009
5:48 pm

“Billy Knight drafted great…”

WHAT?!
2004 – Josh Childress over Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala
2005 – Marvin Williams over Deron Williams and Chris Paul
2006 – Shelden Williams over Brandon Roy (or my grandmother for that matter)

little dave

December 26th, 2009
5:50 pm

these are the type of games we lose just like the detroit game (omg y im i so negative)

ant banks

December 26th, 2009
6:07 pm

LLCOOL SCOTT,

please include the move for jj. the move for j-smoove. i actually like chills. he doesn’t need the ball to be effective.

AND IF WE HAD MADE THOSE MOVES THAT YOU SUGGESTED IN 05 AND 06 WE WOULD NOT HAVE HORFORD OR TEAGUE.

O'Brien

December 26th, 2009
6:16 pm

JeJe,

Check your stats. Chills averaged 11pts, 6 rebs per game, in his career for the Hawks, as a sixth man. Marvin averages 10 pts, 5 rebs for his career, mostly as a starter (and Marvn makes $7.5 mil annually). But yet you say Chills puts up no numbers?

I agree that his jump shot is ugly (and Marvin has a sweet stroke), but Chills doesnt take many jump shots. Woody used Chills to bring the ball up sometimes, and Chills had more impact on games than Marvin does (Chills provided key rebounds, and key buckets). Also, if you take a poll, Chills would win hands down over Marvin when it comes to higher basketball IQ.

However, you might be right in that Chills is about his money, but who isn’t? Why did JJ turn down a 4 year $60 mil extension? Because he wants more money. And thats just one example.

south ga boy in the atl,

I agree that Marvin might be the 6th option on this team behind the guys you mentioned. The issue then, would be Rick Sund, because why would you pay somebody ~$7.5 mil per year, when he is the 6th option on your team? However, he’s only 23, and he still has the potential to to improve his game, so for the sake of the Atl Hawks, I hope he becomes the player BK and Woody (and ‘Nique) thought he would be.

ant banks,

I’m a huge fan of Teague and Horford, but we dont know what Teague will develop into, and I would have taken CP3, DWill, or Roy at that time, even if it meant missing out on Horford.

terrell barron

December 26th, 2009
6:23 pm

Time for a new streak. Cleveland is on fire!

JeJe

December 26th, 2009
6:41 pm

My bad, you know I talk outs me arse all the time and dont know what ze fook Im tawking about.

South ga boy in the atl

December 26th, 2009
6:53 pm

Obrien you can’t compare chills numbers on a team that lacked any offense, other than jj, to marvin’s numbers on this top 5 offensive team. Chills would have zsa zsa type offensive numbers on this team. He would be lucky to avg 6 points a game on this team. And u r right about his shot. It had to be the ugliest jump shot I have ever seen. And lastly, there is every reason to believe Chill’s had just about reached his potential ( have you heard anything about him tearing up the league over in Greece) while Marvin has tremendous upside so I would gladly give Marvin the extra mil a yr over Chills and as stated earlier, I would much rather have Mo over chills also.

bigdave

December 26th, 2009
6:53 pm

Urban Meyer…?

Fire Woodson

December 26th, 2009
6:53 pm

LL Cool Scott,

The year we took Childress was also the year we took J Smith, so i would have to rate it an A+….Deng is not a better all around player than J chill was, and Igu has improved but i would take J chill over him any day..the guy really was a starter but came off the bench and still averaged around
6 boards
i still have faith that Marvin will be a 20 pt per game player in the future..Paul and Derron Williams have never won NBA Championships….And marvin plays in a guard offense and is the 5 th option on a title contending team

Now Sheldon over Roy that was Woodson choice all day long..he said he didnt want any more young players and since shelden played 4 years at duke, he felt he was more NBA ready than roy or gay

BONE

December 26th, 2009
6:58 pm

How many times does Ol Marvin the Duck get blocked 2day???????????

bigdave

December 26th, 2009
7:01 pm

lets get it!

BONE

December 26th, 2009
7:02 pm

So nobody wants to throw out a number lol?????????????

Kiki

December 26th, 2009
7:04 pm

At least 1 Bone. But that does not mean he has no talent. What he does not have right now is confidence.

BONE

December 26th, 2009
7:11 pm

I didn’t say he doesn’t have talent it’s actually hilarious watching Marvin play.

doc

December 26th, 2009
7:13 pm

tell it like it is o’brien, tired of the crap about chills. he was stiffed by management and anyone who has ever been in that situation better walk when the better deal is offered because it wont come again.

BONE

December 26th, 2009
7:14 pm

YEA BOYYYYYYYY

Big Ray

December 26th, 2009
7:16 pm

Ant Banks ,

I hate to disagree, man. But I laugh everytime somebody says “hey, if we drafted this or that guy, we wouldn’t have Horford (or Teague)”

I like Horford a lot, and Teague is another guy I like. But if you gave me the chance to go back in time and take CP3, Deron Williams, Brandon Roy (knowing what we know NOW), knowing that we wouldn’t be able to get Horford and Teague NOW? I’d go back and do it every time. All three guys are franchise-leading players. Much as we love them, can you say that about Horford or Teague? Just trying to be objective.

Even if we didn’t know what we do now, I’d still have drafted one of those guys. Not crying over spilled milk, but I just can’t agree. Seriously, man. CP3 or Deron playing next to JJ? Roy next to JJ? Wow.

Mychelfromatl

December 26th, 2009
7:17 pm

Lord,

All I want for Christmas is for the Hawks to bring this same energy and effort Tuesday/ Wednesday night. Please don’t make me regret not selling my seats for $600.

Amen.

Blast

December 26th, 2009
7:18 pm

Hawks came to play tonight.

BONE

December 26th, 2009
7:20 pm

Marvin good try lol

Big Ray

December 26th, 2009
7:23 pm

In any case, looks like we’re jumping all over Indiana. Best to enjoy the show and move along…

nunna yo biznezz

December 26th, 2009
7:27 pm

it looks like a 10 man rotation nite tonite..
if we only do this even when we’re playing from behind as well,i think this team would be doing a heck of a lot better..
defense and live hands are doing it with this team now,and if the starters get the rest they need and come 3rd quarter,look out!!
this game will be over by then if not by now the way they are playing..

Kiki

December 26th, 2009
7:30 pm

Josh and Horford came to play!!!

Mychelfromatl

December 26th, 2009
7:31 pm

Anybody know if Joe Smith will be back by Tuesday?

BONE

December 26th, 2009
7:33 pm

Ok we should be up 20 not 13

Melvin

December 26th, 2009
7:34 pm

Great 1st qtr by the Hawks. What’s not to like (in my Bill Walton voice)????

nunna yo biznezz

December 26th, 2009
7:36 pm

bone i’d say 2 more times if its garbage points..but if they are calling plays for marvin then 4 more times if he drives in the lane

hawkfan

December 26th, 2009
7:36 pm

yea, i want joe smith to play against his former team, especially if we win!!!

BONE

December 26th, 2009
7:38 pm

OK the hawks giving up pts now

Mychelfromatl

December 26th, 2009
7:39 pm

T.J. schoolin Teague. Take notes youngsta.

BONE

December 26th, 2009
7:39 pm

Everybody but Horford played Defense

Blast

December 26th, 2009
7:39 pm

Now we have a ballgame!

Bring back the starters!!!!

nunna yo biznezz

December 26th, 2009
7:40 pm

the hawks are running the offense thru crawford,and thats bad when u have a point guard on the floor..
we run no plays for mo evans..
and,no one is in postition under the hoop to rebound when the quick shots are being taken..