A very merry blowout
Greetings, all-
Somewhere over the Midwest – Pretty brutal loss last night. The defense was nonexistent, or, as Mike Woodson put it, “awful.” I suspected the Hawks wouldn’t have it last night. For one, Denver has just run over everyone that has come into the Pepsi Center – the Nuggets have now won 23 of their last 24 there going back to the regular season. In losing by 20, the Hawks have pretty good company – the Lakers lost by 26, Utah lost by 11, Miami by 18.
I agree with what Dan said in the game thread. The game was lost in the first quarter – the Hawks spent the whole game chasing. They could get the lead down to 8, 10, 12, and then the Nuggets dropped some more 3-pointers on them. Perhaps if they could have tied it up, they might have gotten some more energy from that, but I think they just didn’t have enough in them. I imagine the Nuggets believe no one can beat them at home, and that is a powerful thing.
Here’s the thing – the Hawks beat the same team by even more points last month. (without J.R. Smith and Kenyon Martin, of course, but with Chauncey Billups) Denver was on a back-to-back (as were the Hawks), but also on the road and playing its fourth road game in five days. It showed. The Nuggets are not that bad.
Wednesday, the Hawks were on a back-to-back Wednesday, obviously tired, and it showed. The Hawks are not this bad, either. The notion that the Hawks have all these flaws – and I acknowledge there’s a difference between saying the team is flawed and having issues with coaching decisions – because they got torched by Denver doesn’t fly, given that they were obviously good enough to do the same thing to the Nuggets a month and a half ago.
It’s a disappointing result – it was interesting to me that Al Horford said the team wasn’t “tough enough” and that “we didn’t respond” – but I think the team shakes this off. As much as I figured the Hawks would lose Wednesday, I think you’ll see a much better performance Saturday against Indiana. The Cleveland back to back, in my opinion, will be a better barometer than Denver was.
Merry Christmas and Happy Hannukah to everyone. I hope you are able to spend this time with the people closest to you.
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114 comments Add your comment
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
11:11 am
DID I MAKE FIRST?
Melvin
December 24th, 2009
11:28 am
At 20-8, I’m still proud of these Hawks…
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
11:35 am
I have to agree with woodson on this one, we have no defense. Playing to match so one else’s numbers is not the same as beating them. The object is to do better than, not to equal.
True, we put up similar numbers in the post but you aren’t going to win a championship like that. We are defenseless in the post. I’m sorry Hawk haters and Horford nut huggers.
Yes its true that we get beat from the outside too, but this is done after the other team established that they can get a score anytime they want right underneath the basket.At that point we are force to into “switching” and staying close to the paint to help our…”center?” Opposing coaches know that and coach their players accordingly. There is at that point very little defense directed towards their sharp shooters who are bombs away. Even a average shooter can seem like a marks man with no defense.
In last nights game we actually made a run in the 4th, and got the game to 6 or 8 when they decided to go back to the guaranteed score under the basket three times to open it back up. At this critical junction of the game, I have a recurring vision of Nene, the worlds greatest center, dunking over helpless Horford.
Horford had the best view of that dunk and im sure can tell you all about it.
We will get to the playoffs. We may not win our division, but we weren’t pick to either. Since we know we will make the playoffs, its only rational to think about how we can advance once we get there. this season is a preparation for the playoffs.
We have until then to address out lack of defense in the post, if we are to be contenders and not pretenders.
Horford is a very good player, a hard worker and a power forward who reminds me of Dennis Rodman, good for a rebound. I appreciate what he does for the team by giving it his best shot every night and is well aware that he’s playing out of position.
Thank you Horford. You are loved don’t get me wrong. Dont misconstrue this analysis with a personal agenda towards you.
SUND, GET ON YOUR FREAKING JOB!
Jody
December 24th, 2009
11:45 am
Truth-Serum,
Great post and I think you’re spot on. The Hawks struggles inside should not turn into an indictment against Al Horford. He’s doing all he can and has done a great job so far this season. However, the truth of the matter is, he needs help inside and he is playing out of position. That’s the truth and when the Hawks go up against teams with legit frontcourts, the truth is exposed. I think the sooner people, be it management or fans, loose their own personal agendas as to who they personally want to see be successful on the Hawks team, the sooner they will realize the truth and strive to make the needed adjustments.
rms
December 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
Fifth
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
12:05 pm
Jody that a very excellent follow up. Thank you for that!
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
12:07 pm
December 24th, 2009
11:35 am
*playing to match someone else’s numbers
Wabe
December 24th, 2009
12:19 pm
Can’t defend the post? Denver pulled away in this game from beyond the arc. They didn’t kill the Hawks getting easy buckets inside. They really get much inside until the end of the game when Nene powered down a couple of slams.
The Hawks didn’t lose this game because Al Horford can’t play post defense. I understand that at times, our gaurds may come to help Al or Josh out downlow if the opponents pose mismatches, but last night, when we doubled, it was usually Melo…
Doubling down on Melo left other Nuggets (JR/Afflalo) open for looks beyond the arc. JR Smith shot 10-17 from beyond the arc. Afflalo knocked a couple of looks down at a critical point as well. He shot 2-3 from beyond the arc.
The Hawks inability to slow JR Smith down from beyond the arc single-handedly kept the Hawks from winning this game. To blame Al Horford seems foolish, because Nene/K-Mart weren’t really doing much down in the post but taking 10 foot jumpers and making them.
Denver clearly showed that even without Billups, they’ve got the depth needed to overcome it. They came out hitting on all cylinders, and by the time the Hawks got settled down, they were down 10 and tried cutting it down all night, but failed.
We lost because we couldn’t step out and contest 3 pointers, not because Al Horford can’t defend the paint.
Wabe
December 24th, 2009
12:29 pm
Nene shot 6-11 and ended the game with 15 points/8 boards. You cannot seriously think that the Hawks were still doubling this guy downlow when you’ve got Carmelo to account an extra body for. On top of that, you cannot seriously believe that the Hawks were gonna continue to double downlow with JR Smith shooting the way he was.
It had nothing to do with Horford/Smoove downlow. Do you honestly think Nene and K-Mart torched the Hawks defense? You think their prescence played that big a difference? You think they’re the reason JR Smith was knocking down open looks outside? I honestly would’ve lived with either one of those guys taking 25 looks each last night vs. Horford/Smoove. We would’ve won that game if they did…
We lost this game early because we didn’t want Melo to beat us, and forced other guys to beat us. Well, those other guys, they beat us.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
12:40 pm
Wabe I appreciate your view. There are others who feel the same way. Im not blaming Horford. You missed that point. Im blaming our lack of a low post presence and a legitimate center. This problem wasn’t just assaulted in Denver. We are hurt in the post in many games. To put your head in the sand and act as if the problem doesnt exist is not going to resolve it.
Denver did not show any thing except that a player who is averaging 15 points a game can score 1000 pts if there is no defense on him. I agree with your premise,”We lost because we couldn’t step out and contest 3 pointers”. We could not “step out” and guard the three because we had to stay close to the paint to rotate and help out in the post. There was times that Marvin, Crawford and JJ were in the low post with Horford trying to help out.
I am not the only one who says this. This is the very reason the Hawk were picked by over 95% of the sports outlets and media sources to finish 4-7 seed. You’d have to be blind or ignorant not to see it for what it is.
Im sorry you took this as an attack on Horford. It it is not.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
12:43 pm
We did not have to “Double down on Melo”. He doesnt play in the post like a center but is on the wing, key, corner, perimeter. You premise is off.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
12:43 pm
*your premise
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
12:45 pm
Im out for another run. Trying to get and keep an edge. Have a good afternoon.
Wabe
December 24th, 2009
1:03 pm
I get what you’re saying Truth, guess I just saw the game unfold differently. People are always talking about our lack of size inside, but where do you want the Hawks to go find a physical force to play center for the Hawks? How would we get him? Who would he replace?
It basically boils down to speed/athleticism vs. size. Can you name me 5 physical centers playing in the league right now? I doubt I could. I bet most of the guys you’d name are guys I wouldn’t want on my roster. They’d either be guys that are “up and coming w/potential” or guys that are a bit too injury proned to be worth the consideration. How about naming a duo in the league playing right now that you’d take over Smoove/Horford?
You’ve also got to understand that the BIGS the Hawks have are a great fit for the kind of ball we play down here. You remember what happened to Phoenix, another team that likes to run, when they started walking the ball up and down the court because they had Shaq?
I’d point out the lack of defensive ability of Bibby, Crawford, and even Marvin before I pointed out our lack of size in the paint. Maybe these guys aren’t rotating quick enough, or they’re getting beat off the dribble on a daily basis setting up looks for others.
As always, I respect your views, just see things a bit differently.
Harry Hawk
December 24th, 2009
1:20 pm
I’m playing it cool this year. Woody doesn’t deserve much criticism at all so far. The Hawks have been pretty damn good so far. I have a feeling that Woody will rear his ugly head in the playoffs, but until then, why not just enjoy seeing this team win a hell of lot more than we’ve been used to over the last ten years?
Wabe
December 24th, 2009
1:23 pm
“I am not the only one who says this. This is the very reason the Hawk were picked by over 95% of the sports outlets and media sources to finish 4-7 seed. You’d have to be blind or ignorant not to see it for what it is.”
Well, at this point, the Hawks are a top 4 team in the East. They might end up finishing at 4, I don’t see them finishing anywhere under that. And, if they do end up at 4, it won’t be because we lack a physical center that can’t defend the paint downlow, it’ll be because we’ve lost games vs. the Knicks, at Bobcats, at Detroit, at Chicago, at New Orleans, etc. Losing these types of games against teams that we should be beating will be the reason we don’t wind up with a better seeding once it’s all said and done, not because of our lack of size inside. Notice, none of these teams have dominant centers inside. We lost these games because of our lack of mental toughness, not physical toughness.
RLP
December 24th, 2009
1:30 pm
I was proud of the effort the Hawks gave last night. In years past the game would have been over after the first quarter run that Dan and Ken S. thought was the reason for the loss. But this year’s team continued to put in the effort and fight through the obvious problems. If you remember some of the games where the Hawks blew out inferior teams recently how many of those games were over in the third quarter? The second unit would play out the win. That did not happen in this game. The white flag was not run up until after the last serious run was made in the fourth quarter and it was clear that this was not the night for the Hawks.
How many times have we seen the post come after a lost pointing out all of the teams weaknesses. And how often do the team’s apologist come out after a win with the counter point? I agree with those who say we have a long season and must remain patient.
I also think that most of us have a tendency to overlook how important the Pacers game will be Saturday night. Another win on the road just might give the team’s psyche a big lift heading into the showdown with the Cavaliers. But the Pacers could pull their record even at home with a win. And the Hawks are still learning how to win road games even against lesser opponents. So this could very well be a trap game where the team overlooks this opponent while looking ahead to the big back to back series.
T.S.:
I agree that against the very best teams the center position could definitely be strengthen. And like you I am not in any way denigrating Al Horford. the problem I have with your position is the difficulty of finding such reinforcements without ruining the chemistry of this team. Who knows what would happen if the team gave up one of the key elements that have put them in the position they are in today? I’m sure that trading Dominique for Danny Manning was supposed to give the team the strength it needed to put the team over the top. So when you discuss this aspect of the team I think it is counterproductive to only bemoan this problem without looking at the strengths and weaknesses the team has in other areas. I give the team’s management and ownership credit for achieving the results they have with the limited ability they have to gather talent for the team given the obviously limited resources that prevent them from doing the kinds of things that teams like the Lakers have to give Pau Gasol the kind of contract that will keep them among the elite.
As for the playoffs please consider that even if you do not think the Hawks are among the elite most commentators and member of this forum will surely agree that there are three teams that are elite in the East. One of those elite teams will not make it past the second round of the playoffs. I like what an article in the New York Times Sunday Sports section said in a profile of the Hawks. They are on the cusp of being an elite team. They definitely have the talent to make it to the Eastern Conference championship round and beyond if things go well. But even if they don’t this year will be considered a success if they make it to the second round and play well in that round. There is actually only one team that the team has to fear because of the center position and EVERY team in the league will have that same fear. No one has shown me that they have the ability to overcome his advantages. But as a team his team can be overcome because the game is played by five at a time and not one.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
1:31 pm
Wabe we find common ground on a couple of points.
1. We are running and gunning west coast style.
2. Our power forwards run and gun very well.
What Im adding, that is missing from your perspective, is that running and gunning may get you to the playoffs but it wont win a championship. You must be dynamic and able to adapt to the half court set in the playoffs. There is a different “type” of physical and skill player necessary to play the half court set. We aren’t fully capable of that at this time.
If I could pull the strings for the Hawks I would have. They pay me (rightfully so-LOL)Ziltch to scout and pursue interest. They pay Sund millions to get that done. I say this in response to your million dollar question of who and where do we get a center from. I have my list and favorites and you yours.
Bottom line is they pay Sund Millions to answer that question. One thing is for sure….we haven’t answered with our power forwards playing out of position.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
1:35 pm
RLP Its seems we are on the same page… looks like they are not paying you either, LOL, to solve the problem of who and where we get the missing piece in the middle.
But they do pay Sund, who has to answer if we are going to be contenders and not pretenders.
BTW…Excellent Post!
RLP
December 24th, 2009
1:47 pm
One other point about my commentary above. Cleveland will play the Lakers in a prime time match up in LA on Christmas day. The Lakers are 16-2 at the Staples Center. The following day the Hawks will play the Pacers in Indianapolis. On Sunday the Cavaliers will play a tough Houston team in Cleveland. Houston is 9-8 on the road this year. Hawks fans should remember how tough they were on the Hawks at Phillips. Each team then has a day of before the big game in Atlanta the following night. The schedule is at least a point in the Hawks favor if they can beat the Pacers. If they do and if the Cavaliers lose to the Lakers but defeat Houston then the Hawks record will be 21-8 while the Cavaliers will be 23-9. A Hawks win would then put the Hawks ahead of the Cavaliers for the third seed. But a Cavaliers sweep of the series will put the Hawks back into the position of a “cusp” team rather than an “elite” team. All of this is big for whatever the season holds for this team. A week from today we should know a lot more about what the future holds for this team.
And at that point look out for either the detractors or the apologist to have a field day. But I advocate patience because the season will still have a long way to go.
Benjamin
December 24th, 2009
1:57 pm
Telling Sund to “Get on his freaking job!” is a little silly, imho. The dude has done a fantastic job with the time he’s had, much better than the incompetence presented by the previous guy. I agree with some of the points you made, Truth, but that comment probably was a little overdramatic. lol
I’ll take 20-8 with some of the wins we’ve put out there. Looking forward to our next matchups vs. Cleveland, Boston, and Orlando…. we’re getting closer to being a top-tier team, if we aren’t there already. Just need to retain Joe this offseason and move forward appropriately from there.
Benjamin
December 24th, 2009
2:05 pm
Question, and this is just a general one:
How many true centers are out there these days?
It seems to me that the position has evolved somewhat from the 80s and 90s, when you had your Ewings, Robinsons, Olajuwons, Parishes, etc. roaming the floor. There aren’t a lot of dominant, back to the basket bigs out there these days.
Al Horford is a PF. I agree with that sentiment. But I also think it should be noted that he’s done an outstanding job holding his own against the other Cs of the Eastern Conference the past couple years. He’s been above average in his role, and Zaza is pretty good as a backup, too.
Ideally, I do agree with you, Truth. Getting a true, legit 5 would be a good thing for the franchise. I just don’t see that many on the landscape.
Ken Sugiura
December 24th, 2009
2:28 pm
I’ll say this about Horford. He’s at a size disadvantage, but he’s at a speed advantage. How many times is he finishing off the break after beating his man down the floor? I have to think that opposing teams look at Horford as a matchup problem in that regard, also.
I’m not saying I think Horford is (or isn’t) the answer at center. I haven’t formed an opinion. And I think it might be moot, as far as going and getting someone in a trade goes, because I remember Woodson being asked about his undersized big men, and he said something along the lines that he thought that that was where the game was going, which in effect is an endorsement of the Hawks lineup as is. But just something else to consider.
Grandad
December 24th, 2009
2:45 pm
For TS, Ken, and others:
I’ve said it before, TS and I are in agreement on the fact that we need a long def. stopper in the middle. Al is a fine player! [4] or [5].
The player we need can be a specialist. Al can start at [5]. I’ll
elaborate another time. Al and Josh need help. Much like Joe needed help
[Jamal]. Go get [steal] Joakim Noah. Once again, TS, please don’t blame Al. He’s not the/a problem. Does the ‘Birdman’ start for Den.?
In all seriousness – ‘Happy Holidays to T.S.’
PS:
Merry Christmas to my fellow members of the “Bubba Crew”.
Jody
December 24th, 2009
3:08 pm
As far as the lack of size issue goes, what the Hawks should be concerned about is not resembling teams that are not contenders, but instead, trying to reach the level of teams that are. The teams that are legit contenders have legitimate size at the 5 position and that’s no coincidence. But, that doesn’t mean that you have to have an allstar or superstar player at the 5 to contend which I think is the point people are missing. Kendrick Perkins and Andrew Bynum aren’t allstar players, but their size and defensive prescence inside is critical to their teams being contenders. It also allows their teams to play and adapt to different styles, both uptempo and half court(essential to success in the playoffs).
I don’t mean this to sound negative, but if the Hawks continue to use the excuse of “well other teams don’t have a center either”, then their always gonna come up short come playoff time.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
3:19 pm
RLP
Yes, we have reached the 1/ 3, of the season with 2/3’s remaining
I have watched over the years how the movers and shakers among GM’s try and make something happen before or right after the all star game, in an effort to position themselves for the playoff run with enough time to allow chemistry to mesh. We haven’t been with in striking distance of the top in many years. We are now. We can sit here and hope the teams in front of us falter or we can upgrade our personnel to be on par with theirs. We can rise up or hope they fall back.
Id rather we rise up.
It seems there is a side bar extending from the issue in the “middle”, that is relevant to the hawks net worth, and interest, in investing in the Hawks as a liquid as set. I say liquid because out side of the building, equipment uniforms etc. we are talking about players whose value changes with injuries, age and declining abilities. We all know that effective centers are at a premium in the league, and acquiring one is always a challenge.
The NBA reminds me of a two poker tables one for each conference, where owners and GM’s play for control of the chips which are equated to the players.
So often we watch the game played on the court and don’t see the game behind the scene.
That was one of the points of interest that benefited me as a child in LA watching Jerry Buss and later Jerry West, wheel and deal and keep the Laker’s in contention and in the black financially. I don’t think most Atlanta fans understand the role of a GM and his or her value to the team and franchise.
Many GMs would prefer to be coaches and often choke out the ability of a head coach by superseding his ability to coach. This often happens because a General manager doesnt understand or is incapable of wheeling and dealing behind the scene at the NBA poker table, so they live out their dream of being a head coach through and in place of the coach.
Not all former head coaches make good GM’s.
Im not saying Sund hasn’t begun a good work, Im not saying Billy knight didnt.
What I am saying is Sund left Dallas with out finishing the job. They too, were on the cusp (still are except they are gradually fading).
I am also saying that the job here is not finished. This team as its personnel is today are not champions. There are missing pieces. You may be satisfied with a good team, but Im hungry for a championship. That means a great team.
So, again, I call out:
Sund get on your job!
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
3:21 pm
Grandad/Suatee , happy holi-day to you and the bubba crew…
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
3:22 pm
*sautee
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
3:22 pm
Good post Jody. I enjoyed your writing.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
3:24 pm
Benjamin Point made Benjamin
Jody
December 24th, 2009
3:25 pm
I would also add that in addition to the size issue, the Hawks also need another guy who can consistently create offense for himself and others. They’ve got Joe and Jamal, but the Hawks need someone else.
O'Brien
December 24th, 2009
3:27 pm
Guys,
A lot of us agree that the Hawks could use some more size at center. But the issue remains, how are we supposed to get one? Dont you think if there was one readily available Sund would be trying to get him?
The next time anyone suggests we get somebody else to play center, please propose who we should acquire, and how (who would we trade, whether current players, draft picks etc).
And somebody suggested Josh play SF. What game are you watching? Do you really want to see Josh guarding the LeBrons, Melo, Pierce, etc? Wouldn’t that take him away from the basket, which is where he excels (blocking shots, weak side help, etc).
And does Josh have any kind of shooting stroke to play SF? Even his dribbling/ball handling is suspect.
It pains me to see people complain about stuff, but cannot offer any realistic suggestions.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
3:30 pm
Jody
December 24th, 2009
3:25 pm
co-signing, ditto
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
3:34 pm
O’Brien you can be pained all you want. Thats Sunds call. A lot of bloggers have posted there favorite-trade-draft-development scenario only to have it shot down by some one else’s favorite. Us playing favorites is not going to resolve the hawks issue. Thats the GM/s job.
I hope you feel better.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
3:35 pm
Good GMs are wheelers and dealers and make it happen. Losers say I did not see a deal to make or every body had a contract so no one was available. What the hell is Sund being paid millions for ?
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
3:42 pm
O’Brien
That old dog wont hunt!!
Prov 22:13
13 The slothful man saith, There is a lion without, I shall be slain in the streets.KJV
yes we can, YES we can, YES, WE,can, YES WE CAN YES WE CAN
RLP
December 24th, 2009
3:48 pm
TRUTH-SERUM (AND GRANDDAD, JODY ET AL.):
I entered a post at the very end of the line the other day and I am going to copy and paste one paragraph here because I think what I wrote then is germane to your posst. I wrote:
“I also believe the ownership of this team is gradually, slowly, but methodically, turning this team into a team with the potential to win a title in the only way a team without the financial resources of teams such as the Lakers and the Celtics or teams without the luck of having a superstar fall into their laps like the Cavaliers or Magic can build a championship team. They have recognized that it takes patience and a willingness to ignore those who cannot be satisfied unless a team has a win now attitude. I love how this team has been constructed and feel that this year is just one more chapter in something that began when they tore up the roster upon assuming ownership of the team. For all of the abuse this ownership has taken they should now reap the benefits for the product they now have on the floor.”
I do not disagree with the need for an aircraft carrier filling the middle for the Hawks. That would be ideal. But I just do not see how it can be done without losing other pieces of the team that may be vital for the team to achieve the goal of a championship WITH THE RESOURCES AVAILABLE by this ownership group. So sure I wish for a “true center”, an all-star point guard and and all-star 3. But if you really have a wish then why don’t we all wish for an ownership group that has the resources to furnish these kind of players so that we can indeed have a championship team RIGHT NOW. Otherwise I suggest that we continue to offer our advice about changes the team can make a bit more realistic.
Ken
December 24th, 2009
3:54 pm
Here is my concern with coach Woodson. I watch other rookie poing guards come into the league and immediately make impacts because their coach believes in their ability . Coach Woodson, on the other hand will keep his veteran point in the game even when it is clear that he cannot guard quicker guards like Ty Lawson. It just seems to me that Teague has the ability but lacks the confidence because he is afraid to take risks . Also, he only gets in the game mostly when the game is already decided. Coach Woodson is old school, believing that rookies should pay their dues. He is slow to see that the ability and talent level of the top rookies is such that they can play right away if given the confidence and playing time. I thought when we got Teague, this would all change, but so far its the same old story.
RLP
December 24th, 2009
4:39 pm
KEN:
Here is some data for you to assess:
During the months of October (2 games) and November combined Jeff Teague played an average of just over 8 MPG on both the road and home with a slightly higher average on the road. In December he has played an average of over 18 mpg at home and Increased his mpg slightly on the road but it is still under 9 mpg. His average mpg increased from over 8 mpg for the earlier period to over 13 and a half mpg in December. Maybe we should continue to watch how his mpg go as we get deeper into the schedule. We know Coach Woodson has demonstrated less willingness to play him on the road. Will his minutes increase or decrease as we head into the heart of the schedule? I believe you were the one who pointed out that the January schedule will be much harder than the December schedule.
Also in the earlier period he had one game in which he scored in double figures but has had three games in double figures in December. I agree that he is one of the building blocks for a brighter future. It is easy to see a future when he is the team’s starting pg. But I happen to like how his playing time is being doled out now. I think he has demonstrated a growing confidence in his ability to become an integral part of the team.
RLP
December 24th, 2009
4:40 pm
Just for the record I got my data on Teague at http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jeff_teague/game_by_game_stats.html.
RLP
December 24th, 2009
4:58 pm
BTW – for those who find data of this kind interesting the site has the ability to compare two players side by side. For instance in a comparison of Teague and YTy Lawson here are the numbers:
PPG – Teague 3.8 Lawson 8.1
RPG – Teague 1.1 Lawson 2.2
APG – Teague 2.1 Lawson 3.4
SPG – Teague 0.7 Lawson 0.8
BPG – Teague 0.2 Lawson 0.1
FG% – Teague 38 Lawson 50
FT% – Teague 86 Lawson 78
3P% – Teague 23.5 Lawson 44
MPG – Teague 10.8 Lawson 20.7
Based on the MPG you could double Teague’s stats to get a roughly similar comparison’s of these two. The only big differences would be in APG (favors Teague); BPG (favors Teague): FG% (favors Lawson) ; FT% (favors Teague); 3P% (favors Lawson) and of course MPG. The site will allow other comparisons as well.
JeJe
December 24th, 2009
5:19 pm
LOL
“I recommend it to these guys all the time,” coach Mike Woodson said.
Wow, Woodson recommends watching basketball to professional athletes. Thanks, Coach!
Its even more pathetic when guys like Kobe watch all day but we need our moron coach telling guys to watch.
The worst part was where Marvin said he does not like to watch basketball., LOL it shows. What a pathetic excuse for a basketball player. When the guy scores 10 points, that’s considered a good game for him. 0 bball IQ, cannot block a shot, take a charge, or make a contested jumpshot
doc
December 24th, 2009
6:16 pm
wrong game to jump on horford. he wasnt the liability. seems we had no one who could manage melo one on one. we never did get that one figured out or was it coaching or altitude? maybe it is more where is ron artest when you need him? heh heh
truth, seems you have had a lot of stream to run off, hopefully it worked or your loved ones might have a tiger to deal with tomorrow on christmas day doubt you will have many takers around here to rap with my friend. merry christmas to you and so many that contribute here to make my days more lively, my appreciation for the hawks greater, and to share one of the passions in my life …. BBALL.
peace y’all …… doc
RLP
December 24th, 2009
6:20 pm
Merry Christmas to you Doc.
And to all the others who contribute to this site.
Mychelfromatl
December 24th, 2009
6:29 pm
Rod From College Park and JeJe is the same damn person SMH.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
6:38 pm
RLP, I had previously read your post, your view is not strange to me and does run on the same track as mine. In sports and in life you have a window time to get things done. At some point patience meets destiny.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
6:41 pm
Doc it was a very peace day filled with meaningful exchange with no mudslinging…that is until you decided my family and your opinion of me should become a topic.
Some times I forget why I do talk with certain individuals. Guys like you remind me.
Thanks.
My gift to you is the Big Ray Rule.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
6:42 pm
*why I dont talk with certain…..
doc
December 24th, 2009
6:44 pm
truth, it was all in a kindly jesting manner or so i thought, just ribbing you a bit. sorry if you didnt take it that way as i meant heartily the last comments on my gratitude for you and everyone here.
GeeMack
December 24th, 2009
6:48 pm
Truth-Serum
I could not have said that any better. It’s time to win a championship.
JeJe
December 24th, 2009
6:56 pm
What a perfect day on the AJC. No Big Ray
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
7:06 pm
GeeMack, It looks to me that there are a lot of teams that got this close and couldn’t finish. Sunds last team Dallas is a classic example, as is phoenix and Utah, and Philly of late. When you get in striking range you got to step it up.
I have to agree with you Mack! Atlanta is ready for a championship and the Hawks are the ones closes to it.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
7:13 pm
Teague is still making very rookie mistakes that hurt the team. Youthful athleticism doesnt counter wisdom and experience. Most of the guards that have an immediate impact are drafted to have that impact and most are drafted as the 1,2,3 guard in the draft not the 7th point guard and 11th guard drafted over all. Thats usually a project draftee. Teague will get his chance but he seems lost and abused when he faces an experienced guard. Its not time to throw him to the wolves or he wont have any confidence.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
7:13 pm
and before you go there, every rule has an exception.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
7:15 pm
Happy holi days Doc.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
7:17 pm
MERRY CHRISTMAS GEEMACK,RLP,JEJE,KEN,O’Brien,JODY AND MYCHEL.
TRUTH-SERUM
December 24th, 2009
7:17 pm
AND BIG RAY TOO!
calico
December 24th, 2009
8:33 pm
No defense by Joe and Bibby how are you going 2 double on Melo when J.R. Smith is your man & Lawson killed us 2
.
Big Ump
December 24th, 2009
9:24 pm
Happy holidays Truth- Serum, Big Ray, Grandad, Samuel, Rod from College Park and the the rest of the Bloggers.
Blast
December 24th, 2009
9:50 pm
Some folks making the blog so boring right now, I won’t even bother posting a comment.
Merry Christmas, Hawks fans.
Big Ray
December 24th, 2009
9:59 pm
Happy Holidays, everybody!
Even YOU, little JeJe…
Big Ray
December 24th, 2009
10:03 pm
Right back at ya, Truth Serum ! You and your family be safe.
terrell barron
December 24th, 2009
10:04 pm
In Denver, in the 2nd game of a back to back would be a tough game for ANY team. Not taking anything from this loss whatsoever.
doc
December 24th, 2009
10:11 pm
truth ty picked one slot ahead of teague didnt look like a project last night but a coached up and ready to do damage when chauncey went down. i thought teague was better and matched up well against ty last year, wonder why he failed so miserably last night.
calico as i said earlier you just need to go find mr ron artest if you want to stop melo without a double team.
Melvin
December 24th, 2009
10:11 pm
Last night game was good example of why or how much the Hawks missed or could use J.Chill. We had two wing players (Melo/JR) scoring at will and we couldnt have Joe play both of them. Marvin and Mo are not the good defenders that we thought they were. A lineup of Crawford, Joe, Chill, Smoove and Horford would have been nice to see. I will keep my finger cross this summer for it to happen….:)
Oh well, Happy Holidays to everyone in blog land…
terrell barron
December 24th, 2009
10:14 pm
Gotta agree with Wabe. Who we gonna bring in to be that “dominant force”? Other than Dwight, who’s better than Big Al in the Eastern Conf? Horford at center is the least of our problems.
terrell barron
December 24th, 2009
10:16 pm
Melvin, you till talking bout Chills?? Let it go man, let it go. lol!
terrell barron
December 24th, 2009
10:20 pm
Still, not till.
Melvin
December 24th, 2009
10:26 pm
TB,
It was just a random thought….
ant banks
December 24th, 2009
11:12 pm
i am not so much as pissed about the hawks losin’ this game as i am when they lose to new orleans, wit’ out cp3, lose to ny knicks, and lose to detroit, without there main players. we should be 23-5.
playin’ against above .500 teams is a crap shoot, but to lose to garbage teams is inexcusable. WE SHOULD BE 23-5 RIGHT NOW!!
Big Ray
December 24th, 2009
11:23 pm
Benjamin Hochman of the Denver Post: “The game ceased being a game — like, you know, with five-on-five competition — and it became one man’s crowd-rising, hair-raising exhibition (think Evel Knievel with a jumper). In the fourth quarter of the Nuggets’ 124-104 victory over the Atlanta Hawks, J.R. Smith would collect a pass and the Pepsi Center fans would pop out of their seats, their “aaahs!” increasing until Smith’s release — for then they became capital-A “AAAhs!” The Denver guard sank four fourth-quarter 3-pointers and was
JR Smith:
10-for-17 on the night from beyond the arc en route to a game-high 41 points, five short of his career high. “It’s like throwing rocks into the ocean,” said Smith, who became the first player in NBA history to tally multiple games with 10 or more 3s in his career. “I really established that (rhythm) early. They started doubling off me and going on (Carmelo Anthony). Everything else was like throwing darts.”
They were doubling Carmelo, not Nene. There you have it right from the man who ripped us a new one….
ant banks
December 24th, 2009
11:36 pm
BIG RAY,
that did not have anythin’ to do with the shots that we missed. hittin’ tres like that is an anomaly, there was no real way to defend jackin’ tres from half-court. i think that the hawks could have done a betta job drivin’ to the hole, reboundin’ offensive and defensive, but other than that dude kept rollin’ 7’s.
Ken Strickland
December 24th, 2009
11:44 pm
Happy Holidays everyone. I didn’t get to see last nights gm, but it seems I didn’t miss very much.
TRUTH SERUM-you really go out of your way to make what has so far proven to be a extremely weak case for replacing Horford at C. I did see the highlights of JR Smith going off on us shooting 15 or 25FG’s and 10 of 17 3Pt FG’s for 41pts. When I read the graphic way you described those dunks Nene had over Horford, I just knew he had dominated Horford. However, when I looked at the box scores, I was shocked. Horford actually outscored him 18 to 15, out rebounded him 11 to 8 and had 1 block to 0.
HOW CAN ANYONE ACTUALLY WATCH THAT GM, AND IN THEIR MINDS, REDUCE THE SUM TOTAL OF WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED TO A COUPLE OF DUNKS, AND IGNORE THE DAMAGE DONE TO US BY JR SMITH?
Please answer the following question. OTHER THAN ORLANDO’S DWIGHT HOWARD, NAME ANOTHER C THAT’S OUTPERFORMED, OR BEEN MORE PHYSICAL, THAN HORFORD THIS YR IN HEAD TO HEAD COMPETITION? There are a number of players that have higher RPG averages than Horford, but only DHoward was able to outrebound him in head to head competition.
If you really want to know what we need most in order to become a championship calibur team, you only have to look at our PG position. While I love Bibby’s ability to limit turnovers and hit the clutch 3, it doesn’t compensate for his extremely poor DEF and the pressure it puts on JJ and our fronline players. His inability to penetrate, break down DEF’s and create easier scoring opportunities for his teammates also limits us, especially in clutch situations when teams double JJ.
I’ve noticed as Teague’s mins have increased, it seems he’s being required to constantly look over to the sidelines for instructions instead of being allowed to focus on what’s going on in front of him. I’ve also seen the same thing with Crawford, which slows the OFF down and hurts us.
Indiana will be an excellent test to see how well we recover form last nights whipping.
JeJe
December 25th, 2009
12:11 am
LOL
“I recommend it to these guys all the time,” coach Mike Woodson said.
Wow, Woodson recommends watching basketball to professional athletes. Thanks, Coach!
Its even more pathetic when guys like Kobe watch all day but we need our moron coach telling guys to watch.
The worst part was where Marvin said he does not like to watch basketball., LOL it shows. What a pathetic excuse for a basketball player. When the guy scores 10 points, that’s considered a good game for him. 0 bball IQ, cannot block a shot, take a charge, or make a contested jumpshot
JeJe
December 25th, 2009
12:21 am
Merry Christmas to all. Will not speak ill of this team for at least 8 hours.
richbrave
December 25th, 2009
8:01 am
doc:
Merry Christmas my man. Miss you and the old gang. Post up on the D.C. blogs mostly now. Just love following the Wizards. Maybe Leonsis will blow up the squad after an extensive shake-down assessment called the 2009-2010 season.
Clyde
December 25th, 2009
8:49 am
MERRY CHRISTMAS
doc
December 25th, 2009
9:01 am
rb miss your energy but i know it is hard to keep up with it all. peace bro, happy holiday my friend.
merry christmas all, make it a love fest today … just because.
Ken Strickland
December 25th, 2009
12:33 pm
I hope the Hawks enjoy Christmas because they’ll have to really toughen up to weather the next 11gms. We start out with the Pacers, then do a back to back with the Cavaliers. We’ll have the same Knicks team that embarrassed us in our last meeting, then we go to Miami to take on a Heat team that’s capable of defeating anyone, especially at home. After that, we encounter Boston, Orlando and then Boston again in a 4 night stretch, and then we tackle the Suns.
This 11gm stretch is going to give us a really good idea of what this team and it’s HC are really made of. When it’s over, I can’t wait to see how everyone is going to pass judgement on both. Will Bibby’s poor DEF and limited OFF continue to get overlooked, or will Woodson, JJ, Marvin, Smoove or poor undersized, playing out of position Horford receive most, if not all of the blame?
Ken Strickland
December 25th, 2009
12:43 pm
RICHBRAVE-maybe the Wizards need to hire BKnight as their GM and have him blowup their roster and rebuild that team like he did so successfully with the Hawks.
doc
December 25th, 2009
1:56 pm
look out ken you are agreeing with truth on something. you guys might get cozy after all especially on christmas day.
yeah it is a tough stretch and one we should hope to get through at a little better than .500.
Ken Strickland
December 25th, 2009
3:48 pm
DOC- I’ve read some insightful comments from TRUTH SERUM. He just has this unsupportable issue with Horford and the idea that a championship can’t be won without a specific type of center, and that’s just not true. And I’m aware that you’re just being your usual instigating self.
At this point, I think the Hawks would be better off in the long run giving Teague the bulk of the mins at PG and letting him make his mistakes along the way to becoming the PG we drafted him to be. There’s absolutely no way Bibby is going to improve his weaknessness, especially his DEF, or come up with anything to help this team get better at the PG position.
Teague has the ability and potential to improve in every phase of the gm, and that will help this team get better. Also, Marvin has too much OFF potential, especially his outside shooting, to allow him to drift or disappear like his does. It’s time to add something to the OFF that can be called upon to get him more involved. Woodson shouldn’t become content just to use him as a DEF specialist and totally ignore his OFF potential like he seems to have done so far this yr.
I MUS WRITE
December 25th, 2009
4:15 pm
Merry Christmas and Happy New Years blog family………. Cheers! I want in for 2010!!!
Mychelfromatl
December 25th, 2009
4:18 pm
The best thing that can happen for the Hawks this Christmas would be for both the Magic and Cavs to lose.
doc
December 25th, 2009
4:19 pm
glad you recognize ts’ value but i know you and didnt doubt it at all. it is just like looking at a dog fight sometimes ken. merry christmas and glad you are with us. we go a long way back on these blogs, surprisingly so. hard to believe that time passes that quickly. you must be getting old.
marvin almost looks like a golfer with the yips any time he shoots, his stroke is gone as is his rhythm, cant tell if it is his set up or what but it just doesnt look smooth. if i say what i really think of marvin this year i might go rod on you. heh heh
Mychelfromatl
December 25th, 2009
5:17 pm
Looks like the Hawks are gonna get their first Christmas gift with a Magic Loss. Now LA needs to beat the Cavs.
JeJe
December 25th, 2009
6:46 pm
LOL we have to play the Cavs on a b2b.
Don’t worry though – we have Al Horford, a true center, one of the best, according to some people on here.
We also have Marvin Williams, who “average 14 ppg” (when he really doesn’t), and who is apparently a defensive specialist according to some of the geniuses on here.
LOL
bigdave
December 25th, 2009
7:58 pm
please tell me Moon is just hot tonight…
RLP
December 25th, 2009
9:04 pm
Mychelfromatl:
You did not get your wish since the Cavaliers beat the Lakers. Too bad it would have been nice. As it stands we have three teams in the East behind the Celtics with 8 losses each. Only the Lakers out West has fewer losses.
Sautee
December 25th, 2009
9:54 pm
“We are defenseless in the post.”
“Im not blaming Horford. ”
Hmmm……. then it must be the coaches fault!!!!!
doc
December 25th, 2009
9:56 pm
to be included in the big four in the east has a nice ring to it, doesnt it? even if we have a sorry coach, midget undersized center, hot headed immature power forward, a point guard with one leg, a three who cant stay on his feet and regularly shoots air balls, a dark hole for a shooting guard, a number six player that knows not how to defend and a bench our own coach refuses to use. just the same we somehow have stuck it out for one third of the season to challenge for the top. guess i need to give all the credit to the gm my boy rick for keeping it and putting it all together. oh yeah, he is the sheets too, because he cant get a true viable center at a garage sale price. go hawks!
tyger
December 25th, 2009
9:58 pm
Hawks are …
1. Too small
2. Weak on the road still
3. Not coached up
4. Good but not great
5. Pretenders
JeJe
December 25th, 2009
10:04 pm
LOL we have to play the Cavs on a b2b.
Don’t worry though – we have Al Horford, a true center, one of the best, according to some people on here.
We also have Marvin Williams, who “average 14 ppg” (when he really doesn’t), and who is apparently a defensive specialist according to some of the geniuses on here.
LOL
JeJe
December 25th, 2009
10:05 pm
LOL
“I recommend it to these guys all the time,” coach Mike Woodson said.
Wow, Woodson recommends watching basketball to professional athletes. Thanks, Coach!
Its even more pathetic when guys like Kobe watch all day but we need our moron coach telling guys to watch.
The worst part was where Marvin said he does not like to watch basketball., LOL it shows. What a pathetic excuse for a basketball player. When the guy scores 10 points, that’s considered a good game for him. 0 bball IQ, cannot block a shot, take a charge, or make a contested jumpshot..
Truth-Serum
December 25th, 2009
10:49 pm
Ken Strickland
December 24th, 2009
11:44 pm
Ken, I don’t know what facility they have you housed at, or what treatment program you are under, or for that matter what doctor, but I think its working. Stay under treatment.
This is the first time I read one of your blogs and you did not come across as psychotic, deranged or out of control emotionally. Keep taking the medicine.
I heard woodson and the Hawks have a restraining order against you. I truly believe that once you are released from your cage, and your doctor say a note of sanity you will be allow to write Woodson and visit Phillips again. Its those little martian men in you head that make you stalk Woodson.
Have you stalked any one else beside Mike Woodson?
Anyway merry Christmas. I hadn’t heard from you and there was no voice of anger. It was a quiet and peaceful day.
I was hoping they’d let y’all out to get some air and its nice they let you use the internet.That was very nice of the nurses, it being Christmas and all.
Couple quick points. In case you missed it. I know you guys dont have internet during cage time. That explained why you thinking and understanding is light years behind the progressive thinking here.
This observation that horford is a power forward is not my ideal (all though I agree with it as do countless of others). I am not trying to present a new Idea. The view that Horford is a power forward and that he is and will be ineffective again true centers and particularly the centers on the teams that we are trying to over take is a view share by 95% of the professional experts who predicted the hawks would finish 4-7th seed and win 44-47 games largely as a result of us not addressing this during the off-season. I know the little green men are telling you this is truth-serums Idea but Big UMP said he has silver bullets for you and your little men.
No Ken I did not create the perspective of Horford being a pf who is out of place as a center, that’s a analysis shared by many professionals. What ever little martians are flying spaceships around in your mind telling you, “must get woodson, must get woodson, must get woodson”, don’t believe them. Tell them no! Woodson is in the coach of the year running. When you hear them say,” Horford is a center and defensive power house” tell they you lie! Horford is a power forward masquerading as a center because Sund is too cheap to go after and real center.Then wipe the slobber from your face, blow your nose, take your medicine and crawl back in your cage!
Keep taking your medicine, I think its helping. Merry Christmas.
Truth-Serum
December 25th, 2009
11:16 pm
*Sund is too cheap to go after a real center.
Truth-Serum
December 25th, 2009
11:17 pm
*sends a note of sanity
Truth-Serum
December 25th, 2009
11:23 pm
*that explained why your thinking and understanding is light years behind the progressive thinking here.
*that’s an analysis
Truth-Serum
December 25th, 2009
11:26 pm
doc
December 25th, 2009
9:56 pm
DOC! hehehehehahhahaha
Cyber fist bump!!!
Ken Strickland
December 25th, 2009
11:45 pm
TRUTH SERUM-I appreciate your concern for my mental well being. If I ever get to the point where it becomes necessary to seek help, I’ll certainly take your advice. After all, based on your detailed account of what it takes to successfully get through the program, it appears you’re either currently in treatment, or you’ve completed the program.
You used these so called experts to support your idea that Horford isn’t adequate as a center. Well, are these the same experts that predicted we wouldn’t make the playoffs the last 2yrs, and would have difficulty maintaining the 4th seed this yr because of competition from the Wizards, Bulls and Heat? YOUR HORFORD ARGUMENT IS STILL WEAK.
JEJE-as bad as Marvin has played offensively this yr, it’s amazing how you and certain others have managed to overlook his contributions on DEF and the fact he’s still outscoring Bibby. That’s significant when you consider Bibby plays about the same MPG as Marvin, gets to control the ball and the OFF and call his own plays, while Marvin is the 5th OFF option and has no plays called for him.
HOW IN THE WORLD CAN ANYONE THAT’S NOT BLIND, OR BLINDED BY IGNORANCE, BRING UP THE ISSUE OF PLAYING POOR DEF WITHOUT 1ST MENTIONING PG MBIBBY?
Consider the following: BIBBY/TEAGUE
MPG-28.0/10.8, PPG-9.7/3.8, APG-4.1/2.1, RPG-2.5/1.1, SPG-.9/.7, BPG-0/.2 and TO-1.21/.69. Is there anyone foolish enough to think Bibby is going to improve upon these numbers, or his DEF? Is there anyone foolish enough to think Teague can’t improve significantly on Bibby’s numbers if Woodson gave him the same MPG and latitude he affords Bibby? Is there anyone foolish enough to believe we wouldn’t be a better team going into the playoffs with a seasoned JTeague starting at PG? How could we not be better off with his superior quickness, speed, penetrating ability and DEF?
Personally, I think we’d be better off bringing Bibby off the bench as our backup SG playing next to Crawford.
Ken Strickland
December 25th, 2009
11:58 pm
TRUTH SERUM-Earlier, I mentioned there were better HC’s out there than Woodson, and some of his other groupees insisted that I name them. Well, why don’t you name these centers you keep insisting Sund is refusing to go after. YOU DO UNDERSTAND HOW TRADES WORK DON’T YOU? Just because you, or anyone else, thinks the Hawks need bigger, taller, stronger center, there has to be another team willing to part with the center the Hawks covet, as well as accept whatever the Hawks are offering in exchange.
You must understand that the other NBA teams aren’t there just to accomodate your dilusional idea of what is needed for the Hawks at center. COULD IT BE POSSIBLE YOU’RE TAKING YOUR MEDS?
Truth-Serum
December 26th, 2009
12:09 am
Ken, I don’t know what facility they have you housed at, or what treatment program you are under, or for that matter what doctor, but I think its working. Stay under treatment.
This is the first time I read one of your blogs and you did not come across as psychotic, deranged or out of control emotionally. Keep taking the medicine.
I heard woodson and the Hawks have a restraining order against you. I truly believe that once you are released from your cage, and your doctor say a note of sanity you will be allow to write Woodson and visit Phillips again. Its those little martian men in you head that make you stalk Woodson.
Have you stalked any one else beside Mike Woodson?
Anyway merry Christmas. I hadn’t heard from you and there was no voice of anger. It was a quiet and peaceful day.
I was hoping they’d let y’all out to get some air and its nice they let you use the internet.That was very nice of the nurses, it being Christmas and all.
Couple quick points. In case you missed it. I know you guys dont have internet during cage time. That explained why you thinking and understanding is light years behind the progressive thinking here.
This observation that horford is a power forward is not my ideal (all though I agree with it as do countless of others). I am not trying to present a new Idea. The view that Horford is a power forward and that he is and will be ineffective again true centers and particularly the centers on the teams that we are trying to over take is a view share by 95% of the professional experts who predicted the hawks would finish 4-7th seed and win 44-47 games largely as a result of us not addressing this during the off-season. I know the little green men are telling you this is truth-serums Idea but Big UMP said he has silver bullets for you and your little men.
No Ken I did not create the perspective of Horford being a pf who is out of place as a center, that’s a analysis shared by many professionals. What ever little martians are flying spaceships around in your mind telling you, “must get woodson, must get woodson, must get woodson”, don’t believe them. Tell them no! Woodson is in the coach of the year running. When you hear them say,” Horford is a center and defensive power house” tell they you lie! Horford is a power forward masquerading as a center because Sund is too cheap to go after and real center.Then wipe the slobber from your face, blow your nose, take your medicine and crawl back in your cage!
Keep taking your medicine, I think its helping. Merry Christmas.
Truth-Serum
December 26th, 2009
12:11 am
*tell them you lie!
doc
December 26th, 2009
12:53 am
t-s somehow, i thought you might like it. peace and cyber fist back at you. kind of encapsulates all the arguments of the season(s).
hawks_for-life
December 26th, 2009
2:58 am
OH HOW I MISS THE DAYS WHERE WE JUST LOST 50 GAMES A SEASON. ATLEAST SOME OF THIS PATHETIC BICKERING MADE SENSE. BY READING THESE POST I CANT TELL IF THE HAWKS EVEN WON A GAME. EVEN A BLOW OUT PEOPLE WHINE (WTF). ITS ALWAYS EASY PLAYING ARMCHAIR (GM, COACH, PLAYER) WHEN YOU HAVE NOTHING ON THE LINE, SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT FOR THOSE ACTUALLY DOING IT. MERRY CHRISTMAS GRINCHES.
nunna yo biznezz
December 26th, 2009
9:47 am
on the following story,joe johnson repeats what most of us on this blog (including myself)repeat almost daily:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/article/2009-12-25/hawks-pacers-preview
the quote he made when referring how we’ve been running a fast pace offense but could not keep up with the nuggets(and yes i know about the altitude),he said,”We just kind of ran out of energy,” said Joe Johnson, who finished with 16 points – 5.3 below his average. “We didn’t have the intensity that we normally have.”
the intensity we had comes when we have the 10 man rotation playing,and we allow joe and the starters to have fresh legs in the 3rd and not be tired out and have no legs because of increased minutes in the 1st half..
Mike is Back
December 26th, 2009
10:59 am
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all,
The Denver game was the one I called in my ten game predictions…I knew they would be out for blood after the way we embarrass THEM at Phillips. The Bulls game was the games that knock me out of the running…I didn’t see that one coming. lol
So much of what the Hawks do on defense depends on a focus and active Smoove. I hope this time off will help him to refocus on his goal of becoming one of the top defender in the NBA…that is when he at his best.
Teague, is still trying to find his way in Woody’s system. Despite his struggles…he is off to the best start of any rookie PG we have had. However, I am encouraged by the fact that his teammates always mentioned his name as a great addition to the team. All of the young PGs situation are different because they all play in different system under different coaches. I’m still high own Teague…we will have to exercise some patient…hopefully Woody will do the same.
No excuses for the Beat down in Denver…but you kind of got the feeling watching the NBA on Christmas…that everyone in the NBA is starting to take notice of these HAWKS. Now when the network displays the record of the best teams in the NBA…the HAWKS are there with the likes of Lakers, Nuggets, Cavs, and Orlando. Their hard is paying off.
To me that should be the only focus of the Hawks…forget about the dubious past everyone wants to harp on…keep grinding out victories and everything else will take care of itself.
THANKS FOR A GREAT 28 U HIGH FLYING HAWKS…now finish strong heading into the ALL-STAR break.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ken Strickland
December 26th, 2009
11:15 am
NUNNA YO BIZNEZZ-you brought up a very good point, but you’d better be careful. If any of Woodson’s groupies ever comprehend the point you’re making they’re going to come down on you. It’s called USING STRATEGY, PLANNING AHEAD and/or MAKING ADJUSTMENTS, which are far too often missing elements with the Hawks.
You would think a HC who’s team is on the back end of a back to back, and playing in Denver’s high altitude, would have the foresight to limit the mins of his key players by using his deep and talented bench more extensively. In this situation, you simply don’t play your key players between 35 and 40mins and expect them to effectively compete against Denver in that thin air. Again, it’s called USING STRATEGY, PLANNING AHEAD and/or MAKING APPROPRIATE ADJUSTMENTS.
Now watch, one of Woody’s lovers will claim he’s one of the NBA’s best at EMPLOYING STRATEGY, PLANNING AHEAD and/or MAKING ADJUSTMENTS, or probably claim these aren’t important issues, at least not to them. The alternative to these 2 approaches will be to launch an attack on me for bring up the truth about their HERO, JUST WATCH!
Ken Strickland
December 26th, 2009
11:17 am
MIKE IS BACK-Cosign you last post.
Dan
December 26th, 2009
11:19 am
I understand that a lot of you guys are concerned about Bibby’s defense, but you have to remember that on the offensive end of it he is money. He rarely makes mistakes and runs the fast break better that any other Hawk. If we are going to talk about slow pg, look no further that the defending World Champion Lakers, with Derek Fisher. as long as Atl plays their game, sharing the ball and looking for the open man, they can overcome those defensive issues. The Hawks usually rotate very well on defense, but a lot of that has to do with J-Smoove helping out. If he gets into foul trouble early then that is taken away from us. I agree that JT is going to be a good pg, so it’s up to coach Woodson to find minutes for him in non-pressure in order to allow him to succeed and build confidence from that. Not when the game is on the line and you need tha assertiveness of a veteran like Bibby.
Guys we don’t need a pg, what we need to find a trading partner that will take Marvin Williams. I think it’s time to trade for a Antwan Jamison or Caron Butler, somebody with more experience that will be consistent and more under control.
What do you guys think?
Ken Strickland
December 26th, 2009
4:35 pm
DAN-the Lakers play very good DEF, and DFisher has been a solid DEF player, never a DEF liability. He’s strong, has good footwork, can fight over screens and doesn’t put pressure on his frontline players by playing a matador style DEF that allows his man to consistently get by him, like Bibby. Also, teams don’t single Fisher out and attack him like they do Bibby, and unlike Woodson, HC PJackson doesn’t have to try and create some sort of gimmick DEF to try and hide any DEF liabilities, like we’re doing with Bibby.
It’s revealing how some of you can focus exclusively on the positives Bibby brings to the table, which is totally limited to OFF, while completely ignoring, or making excuses for, the fact he’s a total DEF liability. On the other hand, you conveniently ignore Marvin’s DEF contributions and focus exclusively on his OFF woes. At least Woodson has the sense to recognize his DEF contributions and not make an issue of his OFF.
It’s also revealing how not one person responded to my comment about how Marvin, despite all of his OFF struggles, still manages to outscore Bibby, who controls the ball, runs the OFF and calls his own plays. Why would you want to get rid of a starter who gives us what we need most, DEF and rebounding, yet support a starting PG that’s easily our worst DEF player, and gives us the least of what we need most? Even as an asset on OFF, he doesn’t penetrate or consistently create easy scoring opportunities for others. As the starting PG, and on a team that ranks as one of NBA’s top scoring teams, he manages to rank only 2nd in APG behind our SG and barely ahead of our PF.
All of you on the GET RID OF MARVIN bandwagon seem to be of the opinion that he’s a total waste of time. Yet, you somehow think every other NBA GM would be more than willing to give up in trade any key player you’d want to see on our roster for Marvin, someone you think absolutely nothing of. THAT’S EXACTLY THE TYPE OF DILUSIONAL THINKING THAT CREATES MOST OF THE ARGUMENTS AND/OR DISAGREEMENTS ON THESE BLOGS.
Again, if Woodson would get over his ignorant bias against young PG’s and give Teague the mins and support he’s consistently given Bibby so far, is there anyone out there who feels he wouldn’t gives us more APG, PPG, SPG, BPG, RPG and better DEF than we’re now getting from Bibby?
Dan
December 26th, 2009
5:16 pm
Marvin Williams is the poster child for why you should stay in school to let your game develop.
RLP
December 26th, 2009
5:57 pm
KEN STRICKLAND:
Since you mentioned Derek Fisher favorably with Mike Bibby let us compare their stats:
MIKE BIBBY
PPG 9.7
RPG 2.5
APG 4.1
SPG 0.9
BPG 0.0
FG% 0.430
FT% 0.828
3P% 0.430
MPG 28.0
DEREK FISHER
PPG 7.2
RPG 2.5
APG 3.0
SPG 1.1
BPG 0.2
FG% 0.401
FT% 0.900
3P% 0.342
MPG 27.1
Bibby leads in PPG: APG, FG%, 3P% and MPG but the difference in MPG is minuscule so that the comparison is very close. Fisher leads in SPG, BPG and FT%. I suppose that Phil Jackson just chooses to play Fisher over Jordon Farmar because Fisher has more potential. Surely you don’t think a great coach such as Jackson would not allow his veteran to play instead of the young player who holds the potential for the team’s future. But then Farmar only plays 17 minutes per game as a THREE YEAR VETERAN. I guess we just add Jackson to the list of those with an ignorant bias against young PG’s.
Ken Strickland
December 27th, 2009
1:55 am
RLP-for some unknown reason, you and others continue to ignore the DEF factor when it comes to Bibby. Fisher provides PJackson with solid DEF, takes a lot of DEF pressure off KBryant and their frontline, and unlike Bibby he’s not counted on as a primary scorer. He’s at best the 5th scoring option on that starting team. Is Bibby considered the 5th scoring option on the Hawks, and does he take any DEF pressure off JJ or his frontline? The truth is he creates as much DEF pressure for his team as the opposition, and Woodson has been forced to use a gimmick DEF to compensate. The sad thing is, far too many Bibby fans like to pretend his matador DEF isn’t an issue.
When Bibby first arrived, our team PPG scored went up by 9PPG. However, our DEF PPG allowed also went up by 9PPG. In other words, we got better offensively, but we also got worse defensively as well. At this point in his career, his overall OFF has diminished and his overall DEF has gotten worse. You can compare all of the stats you want, but until you start factoring in Bibby’s PPG allowed, it’s all a waste of time.