Hawks on a one-game losing streak – where’s the panic button?
Greetings, all-
I apologize in advance. I don’t have a ton of material today (”do you ever?” some of you are asking yourselves). I am not with the team – I am back in Atlanta, and the team went from Chicago to Minneapolis – and have been otherwise occupied with shopping for nephews (Clone Wars action figures) (that is to say, I was shopping for action figures, not that my nephews are four inches tall and made of plastic ) and spending time with my parents, who are here for Christmas.
Commander Cody. This guy was not easy to find.
Anyway, a couple select thoughts on conversation from the last blog. I don’t think Jeff Teague, at this point, would be a good option to play defense at the end of a game. If this were one-on-one, then, yes, Teague is a better option than Mike Bibby and perhaps Jamal Crawford. But he loses his man off the ball often. I didn’t get to ask Mike Woodson abut putting in Marvin Williams over Crawford, but I’d assume that the opinions being posited – defense over offense – make sense. (An aside – for reasons I don’t entirely understand, in the last few days, when Woodson has been asked about the team’s defense, two or three times he’s almost gone out of his way to mention that Teague and Crawford need to play better weakside defense.)
I don’t know, you can make a case for either lineup and, obviously, in hindsight, it looks like a good decision to stick with Crawford. But given that they were up four with two minutes left, I can certainly see why you’d want to go with defense. Williams, for his faults offensively against Chicago, was having a pretty good defensive game. And, obviously, you all know Woodson is a defense-first guy.
As for the iso-Joe stuff, as someone who likes watching team basketball, I’m not a huge fan of it like many of you. But, as I pointed out in a story I wrote today, I don’t think you can make the argument that it hasn’t worked this season. At least by the numbers, in the Hawks’ two other biggest iso-Joe games, Portland (home) and Dallas, they won. If Johnson had made one more basket at the end, it would have worked again. Granted, you could make the case that the Hawks would have won, and by more, if they hadn’t done it.
As for Minnesota, I’d think the Hawks take out their frustations of Chicago on them, but I have been known to be wrong.
A few links:
Derrick Rose wouldn’t mind Joe Johnson as a teammate.
ESPNChicago rated Jamal Crawford one of its top 10 Bulls of the decade. (It states Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf said Crawford would never start for a winning team. It was interesting to me that Crawford was booed when he came into the game. Perhaps this is related? I looked for awhile online, but didn’t find a story about what the Reinsdorf quote was about. Does anyone know what the backstory? This doesn’t answer it, but is an interesting look at the post-Jordan Bulls.)
I want you to look at this page and, hopefully, you’ll see the same ad I did. Look at the bottom of the right-hand column. In my ad, it had jerseys of Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, LeBron James and … Al Horford.
No disrespect to Horford – he brings it every night, has All-Star potential and is cooperative to a fault with me and other reporters – but it caught my eye, as you might imagine. I’m wondering if maybe the ad leaves that space blank and fills in the spot according to whatever city it recognizes the computer being from. Or maybe Al Horford is a jersey-selling titan and I’m just not aware of it. Maybe some of you from outside Georgia can click on it and shed some light?
Here’s a question – name your top five Hawks of the 90’s.
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148 comments Add your comment
Truth-Serum
December 21st, 2009
9:29 pm
Doc! JJ performance wasn’t wasted. We did not get the win,but we were in the game in large parts because of JJ performance. He missed a shot that would have closed it out for us. Woodson drew a nice play to set up the shot. 95 out of a 100 JJ makes that shot. We lost that game and Deng beat us in the middle.The bulls are the #2 defense in the NBA 6-1 on the stretch? I’m good. We had a chance to work on time expiring offense and overtime strategy. This game makes us better down the stretch.
Josh is an future all-star who can only get better. They dont pull you right out of high school for nothing. Al is as good as he gets. I know he’s ken’s boy and very popular. I like him too, dont get me wrong, but I wouldn’t be truth serum if I did not put it out there.
By the way, I admire alot of your post. You have insight and courage and you present your points well. Keep up the good work. You have vision.
Truth-Serum
December 21st, 2009
9:31 pm
Im talking about Ken Sugiura not the Ken thats trying to distance his self from his self LOL
Sautee
December 21st, 2009
9:38 pm
“Also, Horford has peaked he is no better this year than last. ”
stat 08-09 09-10
Pts 11.5 13.3
reb 9.3 9.5
fg% .525 .580
ft% .727 .757
to/gm 1.54 1.35
Hate all you want. He’s better this year than last, and he’s only 23.
And like it or not, he WILL be our center for this year and very likely for the years to come. Too bad some can only see what he lacks, and miss all he brings.
Truth-Serum
December 21st, 2009
9:48 pm
Ok my bad, Hes making 1.5 more points and .2 more rebounds and .19 less turn over. Those are excellent points.
Good points!
Mean while back to the real world!
Truth-Serum
December 21st, 2009
9:50 pm
Where do they get these guys from?
Sautee
December 21st, 2009
10:01 pm
Wait! You mean you are Undisputed Champ AND truth-serum?
Who knew?
And, FYI, that improvement that you try to belittle is greater percentage-wise than Woody’s improvement in win % from year 2 to year 3 (26 to 30 games). So, just maybe Al’s doing something right. Or had Woody “peaked” in year 3?
Truth-Serum
December 21st, 2009
10:14 pm
Thats Mr. Undisputed Champ! to you.
Sautee
December 21st, 2009
10:16 pm
a quote from Coach Mike Woodson:
“I have to get him more touches,” said Woodson. “If we can get Al at about 12 or 13 points and double digit rebounds…then we’re talking.”
He getting 13.3 and 9.5. Pretty close to what Woodson desired.
My question is this: If that’s what the coach wants from him, who are YOU to say it’s not enough?
Hawks fan #1
December 21st, 2009
10:16 pm
Sautee, i guess he did not appeciate those overwhelming stats. Go figure!
doc
December 21st, 2009
10:19 pm
truth, jj’s effort was wasted in the sense we let it get away from us in the last 4 minutes. jj had a marvelous game where he did it right on both ends of the court clearly and scored the ball. still dont understand how he doesnt get more calls outside of the notion he doesnt take it to traffic but tends to fall away from it. if he got some more calls it would boost what i call the efficiency factor of points made per fg attempt. yes he missed a very close in shot which i have seen him miss before in similar situations.
keep up the courage.
aj, right now dont even consider comparing marvin and josh in the same breath any same breath. he does very little right and it is hard for me to not cringe when he gets the ball. i didnt feel that was about him last year and argued with rod several times as he hit on his pet peeve. i am mighty silent about him this year. as you know i said all last year chills is and would be needed, still isfor end of game situations that requires athleticism if you cant put crawford on the court forcing us into a situation of bibby and jamal on the guards. chills was the finisher anyway while he was here not marvin. we need him now.
Hawks fan #1
December 21st, 2009
10:20 pm
Sautee he makes a fair point, no need to get pushy. Hes just saying this is about all you are going to get from all. Hes reached his peak. I dont think he means anything personal to you. Why are you losing your composure, ? It just a point of view that you help him prove with your facts. Dont be a sour lemon.
keno
December 21st, 2009
10:20 pm
I think Woody depends on ISO-Joe a little too much but it’s really no different than what most teams do down the stretch with their best player in close games. It may help if his teammates actually moved without the ball instead of standing with their hands on their knees or waist watching Joe dribble. It seems like they are all content with it. I appreciate Joe’s 40 because without it, it was Charlotte all over again.
ILL-logical
December 21st, 2009
10:21 pm
“So if it comes to pass that JJ signs with Cleveland in the off season, what should the Hawks contigency plan be in your opinion? ”
While it may or may not be Cleveland, all signs point to Joe leaving after this season and if he doea , I would like to see Rudy Gay be brought on board because of his size,skill and youth. He is not as good as Joe today but in 3-4 years with the young Hawks he can be just as good on both ends of the court.
Grandad
December 21st, 2009
10:23 pm
TS:
Thats a good question: Where do you get those guys from?
Grandad
December 21st, 2009
10:26 pm
Does anyone remember Anthony Grundy?
Truth-Serum
December 21st, 2009
10:26 pm
Doc, the best and most consistent shot on the hawks is jj in the paint. He is almost unstoppable 12-15ft from the basket. Yes, I agree its what teams do, give the ball to their star with the game on the line and try to get him his best shot. Id live and die with JJ and that shot any day of the week. This time it rolled out 95% of the time he makes it.
Chill is a run and gun man but not a precision shooter. We will run and gun our way to the playoff. Id like to know what will we do then.
Sautee
December 21st, 2009
10:27 pm
HF#1,
Actually the sour lemons are the ones who, in the midst of our best season in a decade, can only bemoan the “lack of a true center” while on the other hand belittling those who question Woodson’s strategies for “not celebrating our joyful season”. It makes no sense.
You can’t have it both ways. I’d much rather celebrate what we have.
My Hawks glass is more than half-full, thank you. And I’m delighted to have Al Horford as the starting Center on my favorite team.
Was THAT too pushy, too?
Hawks fan #1
December 21st, 2009
10:39 pm
Sautee, I did not mean to challenge you. Its just weird to me when some one challenges your point how you get persnickety. Normal reaction would have been to address the counter view and search out what is true and acceptable. You just became nasty and resilient. I did not want you to attach me too. Have a good night. Sorry to bother you.
Sautee
December 21st, 2009
10:41 pm
Truth-serum,
Care to answer this post? Of course you can always try to use an alias to answer me, but most on the blog know that you’re doing it (again).
Can you step up?
Sautee
December 21st, 2009
10:16 pm
a quote from Coach Mike Woodson:
“I have to get him more touches,” said Woodson. “If we can get Al at about 12 or 13 points and double digit rebounds…then we’re talking.”
He getting 13.3 and 9.5. Pretty close to what Woodson desired.
My question is this: If that’s what the coach wants from him, who are YOU to say it’s not enough?
O'Brien
December 21st, 2009
10:43 pm
AJ,
We are on the same page when it comes to free agency. JJ/LeBron, and DWade/Bosh or Boozer is what I’m thinking too.
Jody, ILL-logical,
As much as I like Rudy Gaye, he is more suited to play SF, and I dont see Memphis trading him. As far as JJ is concerned, I think the Hawks would try to work out a sign and trade. That way JJ can get the money he wants, and the Hawks will get something back in return.
If we lose JJ for nothing, I think the Hawks will insert Crawford into the starting lineup, and try to restock the bench. I would like to see Chills back, but does Sund think highly enough of him?
If we lose JJ, I am open to trading Bibby (especially if CP3 or Devin Harris is available). And I am open to trading Marvin too.
Undisputed Champ!
December 21st, 2009
10:44 pm
Enter your comments here
Undisputed Champ!
December 21st, 2009
10:45 pm
You may lose JJ and Woodson.
Grandad
December 21st, 2009
10:48 pm
TS:
Did you really bemoan someone being persnickity?
How is it you young folks say ??? ROFL!
Sautee
December 21st, 2009
10:50 pm
HF#1,
Whenever you come back, please explain what I said that you thought was “nasty”?
I reread both posts, and do not find any “nastiness” or certainly none intended. So illuminate me please. I harbor no ill will against ANY here, even when I disagree. Thanks.
Jody
December 21st, 2009
10:53 pm
O’Brien, ILL-logical,
Interesting thoughts. You know, most folks would think the Hawks don’t have much flexibility to do anything in the off season. However, I think they have a few things in their favor, whether or not re-sign Joe Johnson.
1. Tradeable contracts.
2. A winning team.
3. A good city. (Many players have homes in the ATL.)
These factors played to the Hawks advantage several years ago when they landed Dikembe Mutombo. Perhaps they can use it to their advantage this off season to continue to improve the team.
Sautee
December 21st, 2009
10:54 pm
Truth-serum from Dec 7:
“If you dont mind, I wont bother you but Im going to try and connect with people who are excited about the direction the hawks are moving in and are joyfully dancing about this season.”
Undisputed Champ! (truth-serum):
“You may lose JJ and Woodson.”
Whatever happened to joyfully dancing about the season?
Grandad
December 21st, 2009
10:55 pm
Sautee you are not being nasty, just persnickity!
Sautee, I’m sorry, I can’t help it. He amuses me.
newkid
December 21st, 2009
10:56 pm
If Danny Ferry expects to sign JJ as LBJ’s sidekick, he’d better start making plans to bring on another expiring contract before the trade deadline. Otherwise, he’ll only be able to get JJ through a sign-and-trade, and there’s nothing on that roster we should want outside of LBJ (including a trade exception). Ferry will need to bring a 3rd team in as facilitator to make it work, otherwise look for JJ and LBJ running together in New Jersey if anywhere.
Cleveland? Don’t see it happening at all. Stage is far too small. The NBA needs those cats in a much larger market; those cats deserve a much larger market. With Wall, Lopez, LBJ, JJ, and a few fillers, the real opportunity to compete for the O’Brienn for several years rests in New Jersey – Brooklyn.
Slow spiral downward
December 21st, 2009
11:09 pm
what is a conversation with Sautee/Grandad?- (same pest)
answer: Slow spiral downward
Grandad
December 21st, 2009
11:23 pm
Syb – I’m proud of you. Really. A retort that was above board.
I accept my verbal lampooning. Good one. You make me smile.
Again, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
Grandad
December 21st, 2009
11:26 pm
Sautee – sorry you got lumped in with me.
Merry Christmas to you and all you hold dear.
Sautee
December 21st, 2009
11:28 pm
Why am I talking to myself?
let me guess
December 21st, 2009
11:29 pm
Because nobody else will?
bigdave
December 21st, 2009
11:29 pm
wow… kings come back from 35 to beat the bulls in chicago…
Nate ArchiBALL
December 21st, 2009
11:35 pm
Don’t forget Alexander “Sasha” Volkov
Rufus1
December 21st, 2009
11:48 pm
Astro
I love your 8:45pm post.
The reason they can always find fault with JJ and Marvin, because they either expect too much or have not defined what their expectations. They also value style over substance.
Nate ArchiBALL
December 21st, 2009
11:48 pm
Ken Norman
Dion Glover
Ed Gray
Blair Rasmussen
Danny Manning
Nate ArchiBALL
December 21st, 2009
11:52 pm
Has Marvin Williams fully recovered from his back injury? Can this be the reason for his poor play?
northcyde
December 21st, 2009
11:59 pm
I guess we have to accept the JJ critics. He didn’t finish the job and win the game by himself at the end, so that opens the door for criticism.
FYI to the critics:
With 2:00 min left in the 4th qtr, JJ had 36 points on 15 – 25 FG shooting. He had hit 5 of his last 6 shots as well.
And people wonder why Woody was sticking to the ISO JJ offense?
Only Hawk fans would complain, when their star player is playing like a straight up SUPERSTAR.
Rufus1
December 22nd, 2009
12:01 am
If Joe leaves is WOODSON WORTH KEEPING.
We would have 18mil under the cap. With Jamal and J-chill we would still be a playoff team.
bfred
December 22nd, 2009
12:29 am
Astro Joe had it right – Johnson gets criticized for not being the kind of superstar who can carry his team when it needs it, then you want to give him a beating when he does? We see far less iso-Joe these days, which is a credit to Woody’s playcalling and the team’s maturity. The ball movement I’ve seen in recent games has been both impressive and unselfish.
This is a sincere question to you folks who obviously live and breathe this stuff – is it a foregone conclusion that the Hawks don’t re-sign JJ?
Grandad
December 22nd, 2009
12:58 am
Just because someone criticizes Iso-Joe doe not mean we are critics of Joe himself. One can run a play for Joe that would involve screening,
player movement, ball reversal, etc, with JJ being the end result. I was one of the 1st to come on board and proclaim Joe didn’t choke.
I certainly hope we keep him because I’m not certain we could get a comparable player to replace. Childress = trade bait.
KevinA
December 22nd, 2009
1:22 am
northcyde,
Only Hawk fans would complain, when their star player is playing like a straight up SUPERSTAR.
We can win with JJ being a superstar. We can win more and play better when we play as a team.
This includes Woody playing JJ and Al to many minutes. Losing our legs at the end of games sound familiar? Where were the minutes for Evans. We lost the rebound battle. Where were the minutes for ZaZa.
JJ needs his shots but they need to come within the flow of the offense – not him being the offense. Please tell me why this happens on the road. Why do we have to walk the ball up the court, why cant we push the ball and get into our sets quicker to allow time for a few passes. Was JJ to tired?
Our assists were down and the ISO ball left our players standing around. One game is not a trend but enough is enough. Let’s go back to Hawks ball.
northcyde
December 22nd, 2009
3:24 am
See, this is what I don’t understand. After all of the rest that the starters got in the previous 5 games, do you really have a problem with JJ and Horford playing 48 minutes in an OT game, especially when JJ is having one of the best games of his life?
We’re not even position to win that game, if those 2 guys don’t play that many minutes.
Those two guys didn’t lose their legs at the end, we just couldn’t close the game out as a team. Because as much as people focus on JJ’s misses at the end and in OT, people fail to realize that Chicago shot 10 – 17 FG and went 8 – 8 from the line in the 4th quarter . . and scored 29 points.
That’s why we lost the game.
We had a 9 point lead with 4 minutes to go in the 4th quarter, and couldn’t close it out because we couldn’t stop Hinrich and Rose.
But back to JJ. Like I said, he was 15 – 25 FG with 2 minutes left in the quarter. But you’re going to “run the offense” and let someone else take shots? JJ was scoring off of isolation almost the entire game, but you want to run the offense, and let him get his shots there? Just for the Chicago game, that doesn’t make sense at all.
In other games, yeah, maybe you have a case . . but not in that game. Not when that guy was that hot.
Defense and rebounding fuel our running game. Smoove being in foul trouble in that game didn’t help at all. We’re not the same team defensively when he has to sit long stretches like he had to.
You just don’t take it out of JJ’s hands when he’s that hot, and pass it to other people who weren’t making shots either. There were only 3 other people who made a jumpshot in the 2nd half, outside of JJ
Bibby . . . Horford . . . and Zaza ( of all people ).
All that team had to do, is play some defense down the stretch, and they would’ve won the game.
Just like in Game 4 of the ATL-BOS series back in 2008, sometimes you just have to ride your superstar, and tell everyone else to play defense. You don’t do that all the time, but sometimes, that’s how the game goes.
Deng
December 22nd, 2009
6:04 am
You guys lost the game because you could not stop me in the low post. PERIOD. If you had stop me and push me out of the post you could have easily won.
Is that hard to understand?
Marcus
December 22nd, 2009
6:39 am
Ken,
no panic button over the CHI game specifically … but unfortunately, we still haven’t completely shaken the “losing to teams you are supposed to beat” bug yet. Record notwithstanding (our 19 wins only 3 game off the league-lead) that is the difference in putting us in conversations w/the current so-called serious contenders. Arguably, this game and the games @DET, vs. NYK, and 2nd half collapse vs. ORL on Turkey Day shows why we are in the 2nd tier of playoff challengers.
vava74
December 22nd, 2009
7:30 am
One of the factors which is making Horford’s jerseys popular is the Hispanic community.
Astro, you were on the money: JJ is not allowed to miss anything whilst Josh can go 2-12 and still be considered a hero.
People have absolutely no balance in their opinions.
Another one: “JJ got 40 points with too many shots”… pleeeease! He shot .500 from the field!!!! And was 5-7 from 3pt range!
Maybe people should focus on the fact that he only got to the line TWICE in 48 minutes… and this time NO ONE can say that he was not driving to the hoop!!!
O'Brien
December 22nd, 2009
8:15 am
I dont have a problem with JJ and Al playing those minutes. They were rested, and the Hawks would be off a few days until they play Minny.
What I didnt like, is that after Noah got his 5th foul, we went away from Horford. And I also dont like the fact that the only play we run for JJ is iso’s, or the 2 man game with Bibby.
That being said, we’re 19-7, and should beat Minny later. Go Hawks.
Did you guys see the Bulls highlights last night? The Bulls were up 35 points (79-44) in the 3rd quarter at home, against Sacramento. And the Kings came back and won. Unbelievable. I wonder what the fans are saying about Vinny lol.
Fundamentals
December 22nd, 2009
8:23 am
I was focussed on a total lack of effort on D and everyone eating popcorn while they watched Joe struggle on Offense late. He’s much better in the flow of the game. It’s not Joe’s game to drive the bucket looking for fouls b/c he doesn’t ever get foul calls. Funny how that works, but hey, he should be aware of it by now.
Daniel
December 22nd, 2009
8:37 am
OK- Easy one for me Ken:
Mookie Blaylock, Steve Smith, Dominique Wilkins(although he should NOT be a color commentator), Kevin Willis, Mutombo.